Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Descriptions of effective teaching often depict an idealized form of "perfect" instruction. Yet, pursuing perfection in teaching, which depends on children's behavior, is ultimately futile. To be effective, lessons and educators need to operate with about 75% efficiency. The remaining 25% can be impactful, but expecting it in every lesson, every day, is unrealistic. Perfection in teaching may be unattainable, but progress is not. Whether you are aiming for the 75% effectiveness mark or striving for continuous improvement, this podcast will guide you in that endeavor.
[00:00:00] Speaker 3: I've very much been looking forward to this conversation with a returning guest, and the guest today is Faith Howard. Faith is a passionate leader and educational consultant in adolescent literacy. With 17 years of experience in education, Faith has taught middle and high school ELA in three different states, as well as coach English and social studies teachers as a director of curriculum and instruction.
[00:00:24] For the past four years, Faith has served as a literacy specialist, where she created Literacy Lab, an innovative 6-12 literacy intervention model that incorporates the science of reading to address gaps with foundational reading skills in a teen-friendly format. Faith is a graduate of William Jewell College with dual bachelor's degrees in secondary education and English, and the University of Wyoming with a master's in curriculum and instruction with an emphasis in English.
[00:00:55] Faith is a nationally board-certified teacher, a former GOY and Literacy Foundation fellow, and a board member of the Reading League of Wyoming. One of Faith's greatest passions is working with students who've been overlooked or left behind due to unsuccessful literacy attempts. Faith is dedicated to helping struggling adolescent readers succeed, bringing hope and tangible solutions to challenges that many educators face.
[00:01:22] She thrives on collaborating with teachers who are ready to innovate and support literacy growth at the secondary level. Beyond her work in education, Faith is a dedicated wife, mother of two, and active community member. Originally from Kansas City, Missouri, she enjoys spending time outdoors with her family, playing competitive volleyball, and listening to podcasts or reading.
[00:01:45] I think you're gonna like this one
[00:01:48] Speaker 4: Faith, welcome back to Better Teaching: Only Stuff That Works. Hi, Gene. It's great to be here. Well, I, I wanted to have you back because I know there have been some changes in, in your life. But one of the first things that I wanted to talk about, uh, is talk about how you got to where you are with your literacy lab, because I, I know that you were a, a language arts teacher, and you were working intervention.
[00:02:15] But w- what happened that got you involved in creating the literacy lab?
[00:02:22] Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, that's such a that's such a good place to start 'cause I think it's, like, the heart of all of this work. Um, but y- yeah, I, I was hired, um, in my district to be a literacy specialist. And initially, right, um, the classes that I ran were
[00:02:39] They were kinda given to me, so kids were pre-rostered based on everything from, you know, they miss a lot of school to they have behavior problems. But they were deemed as, like, kids that needed help with literacy. Um, but it was kind of an academic support. It was, like, glorified study hall time where I was just supposed to, um, help them with, you know, English and social studies homework assignments so that they could pass their classes.
[00:03:05] Um, and I realized really quickly that that was completely the wrong approach and that that was not gonna fix any of the root causes of why they were having behavior issues or failing classes, um, let alone, like, looking at the data and determining which kids actually needed help with reading and should be in a class like that versus the ones that had been misidentified and put in there.
[00:03:29] Um- So really, there was this moment of realization for me where I was like, "We have to do something different. This isn't working, and I'm not gonna sit here and do this for the rest of my career, um, because I'm not serving kids." So I im- immediately went to one of my supervisors and was like, "What training can I get?
[00:03:50] I've gotta learn how to teach kids how to read." Because as you know, secondary teachers don't know how to teach kids how to read. That's just, like, not a part of their programs. That's not what you learn, um, in teacher prep. So, uh, I started by taking an IMZI Morphology Plus training, um, that fall and learned about the science of reading for the first time ever.
[00:04:11] I'd never even heard that term before. And then from there, it was like a, a wildfire for me. It just took off, and I self-initiated. I went to every conference, watched every webinar, read every book, just any podcasts, right? Like, anything I could get my hands on, I wanted to learn more. And the, uh, there's this beautiful saying around, you know, like, curiosity leads to greater curiosity and, and to l- more learning leads to more curiosity, and it was that way for me for sure.
[00:04:42] Like, I just, um, absorbed all of it, and then immediately, like second semester ... So that was first semester I had that type of class. Second semester, pitched an idea of kind of a hybrid model where I would start doing explicit morphology and vocabulary instruction as an intervention for those kids that struggled with reading.
[00:05:02] And then the following year, I was like, "Okay, we're gonna go off the deep end. Now it's gonna be a full-blown literacy lab Um, where I started doing, like, the key pillars of literacy from the science of reading, and was like, "I'm gonna create my own curriculum and do novel studies, but have all these foundational skills built in," but with grade level text for high schoolers is how it started, and then eventually, um, did it with middle school-aged students as well in our district.
[00:05:32] Speaker 4: Okay, so let's go back a little bit. So you were on the semester of, uh, it wasn't self-discovery, it was self- it was self-study. You were doing your own- Yeah ... you were doing your own professional development. So at the end of that semester you were taking trainings, you did all of this work, and did you look for intervention programs at that, at that point, or you just decide, "I have- I- I'm gonna do it myself"?
[00:05:58] Speaker 5: Yeah, that's such a good question. I, I did look, um, and I did not find much. Uh, we s- we started using, um, Lexia PowerUp, which is a, a evidence-based online program that, you know, um, does tutoring for kids on a computer, and, and I, I say this a lot now when I work with teachers who are using that program. Like, it's good, it's evidence-based, but I, I just firmly believe that, like, teachers teach kids, not programs, and, and that you're gonna get better results when you have that in-person connection with students.
[00:06:32] And kids are less likely to buck the system, uh, versus being on a computer screen. Um, and so it works really well as a tool early on, so I used that, and the more learning that I gained, this is what was so cool about it, as I gained more learning, I started taking over and doing more and more in-person instruction versus relying on the program to do it for me.
[00:06:54] But when I look at scripted curriculums out there for secondary, there was this huge gap in finding one that did actual whole texts where they were reading books, novels, that was truly an intervention. You know, Doug Lemov has these beautiful reading re- uh, Reading Reconsidered, um, units that are great for tier one, but they're not intervention.
[00:07:16] They're not hitting at those, like, core foundational skills that kids need in an intervention. Um, and so something like that wouldn't work. Or you have these prescriptive programs that are designed for elementary kids, right? Like, I think about UFLI or I think about, um, uh, just some of these other programs, uh, that- that just when you put them in front of older kids, there's a disconnect because the content is not appropriate for their, like, maturity level.
[00:07:45] And so you lose them, even if they need to learn those skills, but you have to repackage it. So after doing a lot of research and trial and error, I tried a lot of these curriculums, you know, tested them out with my students, and, and just based on the feedback and the observation of how it was going, it was like, all right, I'm gonna trust myself here that I think I can put this together of what this could really look like.
[00:08:11] And it's, it's, uh, something I'm s- I'm so passionate about, is developing curriculum and lesson planning in general. I'm just a very type A person and love doing that. And this structured literacy approach, but incorporating all these foundational skills with that grade level text and novel studies has become, like, the coolest thing ever.
[00:08:31] I really think kids, my students loved it. Um, you know, we would read in high school literacy lab books like Just Mercy by Bryan Stevenson, um, The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks, um, The Other Wes Moore, like, these books that are really thought-provoking, that build empathy, that are challenging grade level, but they're, they're being scaffolded with all of these, like, grade level, or with all of these, sorry, um, science of reading, evidence-based Um, supports, right?
[00:09:00] Approaches. Uh, direct explicit instruction. And I harnessed a lot of science of learning in that. And the, the best part about it is now, you know, now I'm being approached by school districts, right, who wanna purchase this curriculum. And I'm like, I've gotta, I've gotta get it lined up for that. But I never
[00:09:16] When I was creating it, I was just doing this for my students. But we had such phenomenal results in the data that then it's, it's become a thing where people are like, "It's really time-consuming to do that, but we're so interested in, in how you made that. Could we utilize something similar in our schools?"
[00:09:34] And I just think it feels more honoring to those older kids.
[00:09:38] Speaker 4: Well, uh, two, two thoughts about that. Number one, you may not have a curriculum yet that's available, you know, for them to purchase, but you do put a lot of videos out. There's a lot of ... Y- y- you do have a lot of, uh, ways for s- teachers to see how you model, uh, these things that you're talking about.
[00:09:58] So, so I want people to know that you're avail-
[00:10:00] Speaker 5: Yeah ...
[00:10:01] Speaker 4: you know, go to your website- Yeah ... and, and, yeah
[00:10:02] Speaker 5: Record, record, record. Yeah, yeah. And then curriculum forthcoming. But yeah, I, I recorded so many videos of doing this because the ... You know, I talked to Dr. Matt Burns, um, over the summer and he said, like, the biggest gap is that we just don't have video of people doing this with secondary students.
[00:10:19] Like, and, and people are curious. They wanna know, and you have to be really vulnerable in letting people into your classroom to see what that looks like. So I have a teacher Facebook page where I put all that on there. Um, videos and then free resources that I share with teachers that are linked- Yeah, link- Yeah
[00:10:33] which
[00:10:34] Speaker 4: is ac- what's that your website? W- why don't you say your website once, and then we'll have it in the show notes.
[00:10:39] Speaker 5: Sure, yeah. My website is literacylabwithfaith.com. And then my teacher Facebook page is Literacy Lab with Faith. Um, that's like my, my tag, my handle.
[00:10:48] Speaker 4: Okay.
[00:10:49] Speaker 5: So.
[00:10:49] Speaker 4: So, so a c- couple, couple thoughts as you're talking about working with teens, and you wanted to honor them, you know, who they are.
[00:10:56] In fact, I, I, I know in your website you talk about a, a teen-friendly format.
[00:11:02] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[00:11:03] Speaker 4: And so I want to hear your thoughts on that, and juxtapose that when, when we think about honoring, you know, the, uh, you know, honoring students who are older- Mm-hmm ... and honoring adolescents, yet I'm seeing in your videos they're clapping out syllables.
[00:11:21] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[00:11:22] Speaker 4: So- Yeah ... so talk about w- how you see teen-friendly, and what's be- Out of bounds, that wouldn't be te- teacher friendly, or teen friendly rather Yeah.
[00:11:33] Speaker 5: I think the routines and the processes are the same, that they could look exactly the same. Like a lot of these approaches and concepts I've taken from elementary school models and then adapted them.
[00:11:46] Um, but the difference is in what the content that you're putting in front of them to do those strategies and routines. So for example, um, I use ... teach my students the strategy for decoding multisyllabic words. And the multisyllabic w- you know, they're only decoding, they're, they're using this routine to unpack really complex high-level tier two vocabulary that they're gonna need to be able to talk about and comprehend the novel that we're reading.
[00:12:15] Um, and so, you know, recalcitrant, right? Thinking about a term like that where they would have no clue and be skipping over that word. And we're not only going to work on the pronunciation of it through decoding, but then we also need to know how to spell it. So there's a routine, right, that I've sort of come up with from a bunch of different places of how to, like, systematically work through a word.
[00:12:40] And in doing that, yeah, they repeat the word after me, then they, like, use their, uh, marker on their mini whiteboard, and they tap the syllables as they're pronouncing because we need to make sure the phonemic awareness is there, and that they actually can pronounce all of the sounds. Then we tie the sounds to
[00:12:56] It's that sound symbol correspondence. So then we're talking about, well, what letters make that sound? And so it's rethinking, you know, like i- if you saw this with a first grade class and they're spelling CVC words, you know, cat Yeah ... for example, it might look exactly the same, but the content I'm putting in front of them
[00:13:16] And then when we take it a step further because that multisyllabic word, we're gonna be i- it, it ... we're gonna talk about its meaning, and we're gonna peel off the morphemes, and then we're going to apply it to this higher level text. I think that's where the nuance is of how you make these, these things that are very foundational skills that for some reason these kids missed But you, you do have to kind of like r- readdress them.
[00:13:43] You know, they, they need more at-bats. They need practice with it, but they need the practice with what they're actually gonna see in a high school classroom or a middle school classroom. It can't just be like, you know, these, these kind of baby practice skills. Um, so yeah.
[00:13:58] Speaker 4: Interesting. Well, I know that, uh, you know, we have, uh, kind of alluded to it.
[00:14:04] You, you left the classroom, and now you're out, you're out, uh, consulting. And so you're, you've been traveling around, and what have you found that teachers are missing, secondary teachers are missing? You've already said earlier that, you know, they don't get really trained in teaching. Although I remember in my credential program, there was a, there was a three-unit class in, in reading in the content area.
[00:14:31] But don't remember anything about it- ... except I, I don't think I, I learned anything. But, you know, I have to admit, it was a long time ago. But what do you think, uh, so when you visit these schools and you do this work, and I'd like you for you to describe the work that you do before you, in addition to answer this question.
[00:14:49] But, but what are they excited about? What, what are they missing? Because just, you know, full disclosure, uh, our group hired Faith to come out to do some work in California with a, with a group of high school teachers, and was very well-received. And we didn't have a chance to see it, but I'm just wondering what they respond to, what do they tell you that they're missing, that they're gonna do, et cetera, et cetera.
[00:15:16] Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, uh, I'm doing this work on kind of a national scale. So of course in my home state of Wyoming, I'm really passionate. We passed a literacy bill, so we have legislation now that's requiring K through 12 for kids to be getting identified and then getting interventions if they struggle with reading, as well as just all teachers to up their game, um, in using evidence-based, uh, approaches to literacy across content areas.
[00:15:45] So but it, no matter where I go, I feel like- Teachers are, are, uh, acutely aware, secondary teachers, that the kids they're inheriting now do not have the skills that they need to be successful with grade level content. Like across the board, if we look at NAEP data, we look at like specific school districts and their reading scores, you have anywhere from like nearly 50%, sometimes sig- more h- higher than that even, significantly more, of kids that are not reading at grade level.
[00:16:15] And so, like science teachers feel that too when they're trying to teach, um, content vocabulary in a unit. Social studies teachers feel that every day in their content area. And so it's, um, it's kinda twofold. I think the things that they are ... They're acutely aware of it, like I said, but they, but they don't know where to start.
[00:16:37] Like it, it's, it's so daunting and overwhelming to be like, "Wait, now I've gotta be a reading teacher and like add in this stuff, but what is this stuff?" And same thing, like I have such ... I come from such a place of empathy with this because of where I started in my journey, where I had been a, an English teacher for, um 13 years, and still didn't know anything about the science of reading or what the research said, and, and how to teach kids how to read.
[00:17:06] And so I think they- you've got to demystify, right? They're ready and willing. But across all content areas, teachers are like, "Break it down for me. Give me the Reader's Digest version of what the science of reading is and what research says for adolescent readers is true, and then show me how to do it."
[00:17:27] And this is why I, I pride myself in the way that I do professional development with teachers because, like, I, I am a teacher first, and I've sat through so many bad trainings, so many bad PDs where they bring in some consultant who really doesn't understand the context of that school or those kids, and then they kind of talk at you the entire time.
[00:17:48] Which if we think about as teachers, like, nobody wants to learn that way, and nobody learns that well- ... doing it that way. So I'm, I'm more in the, in the house- wheelhouse of like, I'm gonna do a demonstration. I'm gonna model two big, you know, high-leverage reading strategies that can be used across all content areas, and I'm gonna model it not just with an ELA example, but I might pull a science text or a social studies text, um, or even like a math word problem, and be able to show you what that's supposed to look like.
[00:18:22] So I think in doing that, teachers, one, they get to sit in the student's chair and be like, "Oh, this is what it's like, and it actually would help kids to better understand my content." You know? Um, and at the same time, it makes it less scary when you share resources and when you give them, like, a very clear example of how to do it.
[00:18:44] Um, and so I, I think, I think that's, like, a big part of the work, right, and when I notice. It's, it's that they need to be t- they need to be shown how. They just, they, they need it to be de- demystified, and they wanna be shown how. And then a lot of schools now are paving the way, and they're ... In middle and high schools, they're setting up reading intervention classes.
[00:19:03] But the roadmap for how to do that has not been clearly delineated, and so they're all trying to figure it out at their own pace. Everything from, like, what assessments should we be giving How do we determine which kids need the intervention? What diagnostics are gonna show us what intervention the kids actually need?
[00:19:23] What curriculum do we use? And then what does the day-to-day look like th- of what we're doing with those kids in order to accelerate so that we can get them out of these intervention classes? Um, and so that's where I come into play, where I'm like, "I'm just gonna sit alongside you and do all of this work with you and, and show you how."
[00:19:42] Because not that I have all the answers, but I've been through it. I've done it. And, and I think, uh, administrators have been really responsive to that in my work so far because they're like, you, you can walk the t- you know, you can talk the talk and walk the walk because you've literally done this, um, through blood, sweat, and tears, right?
[00:20:00] Like, that hard work in the classroom. And so I just get it at a level that maybe, like, somebody that's read a lot of research about it but hasn't done it just, like- Yeah ... can't really get in there with a teacher and do.
[00:20:12] Speaker 4: Well, you know, I think it's interesting the, uh, the administrators, you know, getting positive feedback from the administrators because th- the reality is they don't know what to do.
[00:20:24] They don't know how to support teachers, and being able to sit through that training with their teachers is really beneficial, uh, moving forward because if- Yeah, absolutely ... if, if, if you're working with an administrator that just says, "Well, well, now what do I do next?" And have no idea-
[00:20:42] Speaker 5: Yeah ...
[00:20:43] Speaker 4: what, what, what they're doing.
[00:20:44] Um, so I know, I, you know, I noticed on your website you have, uh, you know, a series of things that, that, uh, uh, series of topics s- that you go, you know, that are possible with teachers. Is there some sort of sequence, a usual sequence that, uh ... I know every school is different. I know the- Mm-hmm ... makeup of the kids is every different, but, but if somebody's just getting started, where do you start with a secondary group?
[00:21:11] Speaker 5: Yeah. That's a, that's, yeah, that's an important part to talk about here. So often it's like there's a leadership track. You know, you talked about leaders and their learning and growing them up, and so, um, part of what I'm, what I do is behind the scenes I work with district leaders on educating them about literacy so that then they can lead up and, and then they can actually be literacy leaders as well.
[00:21:35] But for many of them, they don't have a background in literacy either. Um, so when I go into a school, often the place to start is the most basic baseline of, like, science of reading. What is it? What does it look like? What does the research say for adolescents? And, um- And kind of like, you know, structured literacy overview.
[00:21:58] And then it's let's as a district or as a building prioritize what's our, what's like one high leverage but, uh, low-hanging fruit instructional move that we can commit to across the entire school or building or district that then we're gonna receive professional development on and coaching walkthroughs, feedback, all of that, right?
[00:22:24] So that it- it's not just a one-off PD. I'm really anti like, "Let me come and show you some stuff," and then there's like no follow-up or follow through. Um, 'cause you're just not gonna have any lasting change then. It's not gonna have a great impact. And so, um, the one that I've- I've noticed is tends to be the most common, and it's kind of funny because when I started in my role as a literacy specialist, um, in Pinedale, that's what I, what- what we kind of recommended as well, was to start with tier one vocabulary instruction And so over the course of about a year and a half, all teachers will-
[00:23:01] Speaker 4: Uh, but I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm sorry, I'm sorry to interrupt, but, but we use- Yeah
[00:23:04] we use the tiers in a couple different ways.
[00:23:07] Speaker 5: Okay.
[00:23:07] Speaker 4: So, so tier one being first instruction versus tier one type of vo- Yeah, core content Not, not-
[00:23:13] Speaker 5: Yeah ...
[00:23:14] Speaker 4: tier one vocabulary.
[00:23:15] Speaker 5: No, sorry. Okay,
[00:23:16] Speaker 4: okay, okay. Core
[00:23:17] Speaker 5: content classes. Okay. Like, all teachers, whether you're a PE teacher, a science teacher, an English teacher, an ELL support teacher, like any of that, right?
[00:23:27] All teachers are gonna get this baseline training in evidence-based vocabulary instruction, because it stretches across everything, right? So that tends to be one that a lot of schools like to start with, because it ... Teachers already do vocabulary instruction. We're just cleaning it up and saying, "Okay, instead of taking out a dictionary and copying down the meaning of that, or instead of the teacher just y- being like, 'Hey, here's a word you guys need to know.
[00:23:54] Here's what it means. Okay, now let's go do the lesson.'" It's, "No, let's talk about what research says are the key components of an explicit vocabulary routine," right? We're talking about f- phonology, orthography. We're talking about the meaning. We're talking about the morph- uh, the morphemes that are in those words, right?
[00:24:16] Having kids, um, create mind maps and being able to interact for multiple exposures. So then it's a series of, like, the, that. Where it's let's, let's just start with me modeling a couple of these, like, basic things, then giving teachers time to plan for how to use those in their classrooms and in their different contents, and then potentially through, like, PLCs or other opportunities, they have this, this, um, feedback loop, you know, where they're held accountable and they're trying these things out.
[00:24:43] But we often start with the willing. So these aren't mandates coming from building principals or from school districts. It's really, it's like, we're gonna give you all this information, but it's the teachers that are, are, are really interested in implementation that are gonna take it and run with it. Um, and then it's just adding more tools to their tool belt, right, throughout the year, and then being able to follow up with them.
[00:25:06] And what I've found is, like, immediately, I mean, I ... In a district I was in right before school started, did a professional development like this with some modeling. Within the first week of school, their CTE teacher was doing this strategy in front of kids, and it was, like, the coolest thing to think about the impact when it's stretching across all classrooms, um, and that level of commitment, so.
[00:25:31] Speaker 4: Here's something that we've never talked about, and we've spoken for hours about different things. Yeah. Uh, and that is, like, you mentioned vocabulary, uh, instruction, and you mentioned, uh, morphology, orthography, or you mentioned all of these things, and my head is spinning, you know. And I'm thinking, so- That's why it works.
[00:25:50] That's why you have to do these things. But how much does a teacher need to know to be able to do a vocabulary routine that you're talking about?
[00:26:00] Speaker 5: Yeah. I, I just said this yesterday to a group of teachers I was presenting to and, uh, it's like you don't need to know the fancy terminology. Leave that part to me, right, and like the literacy specialists.
[00:26:10] So with, with adult educators, they can be skeptical, so I always present the research and say, "This is the terminology. Now, here's what it looks like in front of kids." And the orthography, right, is just emphasizing like let's all write the word down and actually like pay attention to how we spell this word.
[00:26:28] Or the phonology is just let's all make sure we can pronounce this word and say it out loud, like repeat after me. It's the most basic stuff. So these terms, this is why I said we've got to demystify. Yeah. These terms can be really scary and off-putting to teachers who are not teaching literacy. Um, but when you're like, "Actually it's just say the word and have the kids pronounce it back after you."
[00:26:52] Yeah, that's it. Yeah. 'Cause you wouldn't believe how many classrooms you go into and a teacher is like, "Hey, here's the vocab word," and they define it for kids. Um, they might even show a visual, but th- they never have the kids actually say the words. So then a month later you get it ... You know, you're later in the unit and these kids still don't even know how to pronounce the word.
[00:27:12] They're not using it. They're not verbally, right, that oral language development piece isn't happening because like they, they're like, "I don't actually know how to say the word." So of course you think about the limitations within their content. If that's coming up in a text they're reading, they're not gonna really own that word if they can't even say it.
[00:27:29] So I think the basics for teachers is not about the terminology, it's here are the steps, right? It's like breaking it down into like here's a strategy or a routine. Here's the steps. I'm gonna give you a Google slide that has the steps on there that you can just put on your, project on your board, and use it with your own students.
[00:27:47] So it's like super user-friendly. And then a model of how to do it so that they get to experience it, and then they get to pick their own content that they wanna use it for.
[00:27:57] Speaker 4: Oh, okay. So you've said, uh, one of the things you said earlier was about, um, how you wanna work with s- work with schools. You don't wanna go in and do a one and done.
[00:28:08] You want, you want to follow up. So, so if I were to call you, if I was from a school and I listened to this and said, "Boy, I'm gonna contact Faith," w- what sort of ... What would you be looking at? What sort of commitment to this partnership would you expect from a school if they were really serious about being, uh, successful in making some changes?
[00:28:30] Speaker 5: Yeah. That's, that's an interesting one. I think, um, I think the commitment comes through, like, is there a vision? Is there a priority within that building or district around literacy? There's gotta be that acknowledgement of, like, this has to be important to us, not just because of a legislative bill, not just because we are on an improvement plan because our reading scores have been low, but because we wanna do right by kids, and we've noticed that what we're doing isn't working.
[00:28:59] And so I think that's the, that's the place to start. Or we're doing some good things, but we wanna build off of that and do better and more. Um, and then it's, and then it's around, you know, it's just figuring out on the scheduling piece of what makes sense. But for me it's, it's like a multi-layer approach with school districts or with buildings where it's not, like, I'm just gonna come in and do PD.
[00:29:22] But it's gotta be those, those meetings with leaders. It's often trickles down, so it's like we're gonna do walkthroughs, we're gonna create a walkthrough tool with leaders so that they're supporting the work when I'm not physically there. Um, but I'm really big on, like, being in the schools. Like, I need to be able to walk through the classrooms with those leaders too so that I can kind of get a sense of, of, like, what the day-to-day reality is.
[00:29:49] Um, because there might be something really simple that just, uh, if we would just talk about or show teachers. Um, and then it's time to meet with teachers, even if it's during their planning period, right? And, and be able to sit beside them and talk about what this could look like, and just, like ... They mostly, they just want a thought partner, honestly, and I, and I call it coaching, um, because, you know, the beauty of this with me being so fresh out of the classroom is, like, I, I can come in and model something with their students.
[00:30:19] Like, we can side-by-side co-teach as a part of this, you know, um, this coaching model. Or I can come in and just observe them trying something, you know, a strategy or routine that I modeled for them during, um, a professional development session that now they're trying to incorporate but they really want feedback.
[00:30:40] So it, it's kind of, um, you know, it starts at that high level, and then it goes down from there. So just when you're thinking about that, that's ... Often it's, like, a couple of days a month Um, you know, to be like boots on the ground in there. Um, and often the schools that have the most success are ones that it, it's a couple of days a month throughout all the months of the school year, maybe with a heavy emphasis in, in those months, like the month right before school starts, 'cause then we can front load some of these pieces before school started.
[00:31:10] But, um But I try to customize and be really flexible with, with districts around their schedules because they all have very different-
[00:31:18] Speaker 4: Yes ...
[00:31:19] Speaker 5: different schedules. But it's gotta be that, that priority. It just has to be important, and then they've gotta be willing to, like, put that, put that time in. And, um, I'll say that it's kind of there's two tracks because some schools are like, "Let's start with tier, tier one instruction, core content," right?
[00:31:36] "We wanna get all of our teachers just these kind of like, um, you know, basic understanding of some of these like adding to the tool belt, these strategies and routines." And then there's that piece around intervention design and MTSS, s- you know, the systems level stuff that I also provide coaching and support to districts on because a lot of them are like, "We need to establish interventions in secondary, but what does that look like?
[00:32:01] How do we do it?" And they need a lot of help along the way to make that a reality, and then to make it sustainable year over year. And so some s- districts decide to start with the interventions, and that's the priority first. Some choose to do tier one as the priority, get that underway, and then eventually move into interventions.
[00:32:19] Some do it simultaneously. So obviously that affects, like, what the contract would be like, but-
[00:32:25] Speaker 4: So-
[00:32:26] Speaker 5: Um, yeah ...
[00:32:26] Speaker 4: s- so if you're work- if you're working, working with a s- with a school and/or a district, are you also working, in addition to working with the teachers, uh, are you also working with, um, uh, reading specialists and literacy specialists?
[00:32:40] Speaker 5: Yeah. Those are my, those, that's, those are my favorite, I think, to work with just because, like, I was them.
[00:32:48] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[00:32:48] Speaker 5: Right? Five years ago, I was that teacher. Um, and, and honestly, like, had to do all that self-learning, self-discovery like you talked about. And so f- for me, that's, that's actually a big reason why I left the classroom.
[00:33:04] The need is just so great across our country right now. There's a lot of conversation, there's a lot of, um, energy building around adolescent literacy. But, um, a l- like, peop- people need direction and they need help, and my heart just goes out to, to schools that want to do that work meaningfully. And I, it was really hard to leave the classroom because I love kids and I love teaching, and it's been such a huge part of my life.
[00:33:33] But I just felt that tug of like, I can have a greater impact if I'm willing to step out of the classroom and devote my full attention to, like, giving that learning to as many people that will listen and that are ready to do the work alongside me. Um, and so, yeah.
[00:33:51] Speaker 4: Awesome. Well, uh, Faith, as you know, I could talk with you forever, but- I know
[00:33:58] uh, one, one other, one other thing that I wanted you to talk about, and it's something that's coming up, and I know you're involved in this, and it's a conference in Wyoming, which I never can remember the title of the conference.
[00:34:10] Speaker 5: Yeah, I know. It's a long title. Um, yeah, October 10th, it's a Saturday, we're hosting, and this is kind of a grassroots conference that myself and Laura Stam, um, and, and, you know, she kinda has, like, a wide internet presence for literacy instruction in elementary.
[00:34:28] Um, but she's a Wyoming teacher as well. And so, um, it's called the Wyoming Science of Teaching and Learning Collaborative. And we're really-- We've built this around this idea of we want as many teachers to come as possible, um, because it's for teachers by teachers. So, like, this is $50 registration. It's on a Saturday s- intentionally so that teachers do not have to get a sub, um, so they don't have to miss instructional time.
[00:34:55] It's 40-minute lightning rounds just that day, um, with a keynote speaker, um, an expert panel, which Mr. Taverniti is, uh, a member of, and he'll be presenting at it as well, um, even though he won't brag himself up. But, um... And, uh, and then a lunch and learn. A- and all of these, like, lightning rounds are practical strategies, routines, and things that a teacher can literally on that Saturday take away and implement in their classroom on Monday.
[00:35:27] Um, and so i- it's all science of learning, science of reading, but it's K through 12, and it's not just literacy. So there's a heavy literacy focus, but there are sessions that are not about literacy at all, so even, you know, other content area teachers could come. It's in Cody, Wyoming. So, um, you know, teachers from other states can come in too.
[00:35:48] It's drivable from Colorado, Nevada, uh, Montana, Nebraska, right? But, um, really excited about this, and we wanna continue this work year over year, um, and make it sustainable. So we would love it if anybody is interested. We have some really big names coming and, um, presenting there as well. We've got Melana Gordon, we've got Zach Roschelle, uh, we've got Gene Taverniti, we've got Sean Morrissey.
[00:36:13] The list goes on and on. Um, and so-- And then local teachers in Wyoming that are presenting about their work as well.
[00:36:20] Speaker 4: Well, there's one thing you forgot to mention, and that is you folks have, uh, uh, wrangled, uh, wrangled up somehow that the teachers will get continuing ed credits
[00:36:32] Speaker 5: Yeah. Yes. We have PTSB credits, and so, and then if you're a Wyoming teacher, you also, these count toward your training hours that are in, a part of the new literacy legislation.
[00:36:43] And so, um, that's huge because that's now a requirement for your teaching licensure. Um- Yeah ... so just love to have anybody come out.
[00:36:51] Speaker 4: No, I'm looking forward, I'm looking forward to being there. So Faith, do you have any questions for me?
[00:36:57] Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, I was looking forward to this part 'cause this is your- ... your tagline, right?
[00:37:02] You're like, "No BS," and also, "Ask me a question."
[00:37:05] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[00:37:06] Speaker 5: Um, so I wanna know, right, as I'm headed in this direction and I'm, I'm, now I'm, like, working in schools really intimately, you've been doing this for years, Gene, right? You've written books on this. Like, you're the pro. What do you think it takes? Like, what's the secret sauce, what's the special recipe, um, to truly move the needle in a school, to see that, that change or that shift?
[00:37:30] Speaker 4: Well, I think there are several things that need to happen at once, you know, and the first one you could probably guess. I'm gonna say instruction. You know, we, we always start with instruction, and for, uh, people who want a more expansive, uh, uh, answer than what I'm giving, you can check out our books, Digital Captives, where we talk about, where we talk about those things because it needs to be partly what you talked about, about how you've, you know, you wanna work, that it's gotta be, uh, commitment, part of the vision of the, uh, of the school, of the district, but not that airy-fairy esoteric- Mm-hmm
[00:38:12] vision. I mean, it's gotta be, "This is what we do for reading instruction. This is how we, this is how we do this. Parents, if you come to this school, this is what you can expect." So it takes everybody to be on board, and it takes, um, again, commitment from, from the administration- Beyond the, the happy talk, you know?
[00:38:36] Mm-hmm. It, it, it, they really need to, to be involved. So like you say, when you go to a school, you know, you meet with the leadership. Absolutely. You have to start with the leadership. If you don't meet with the leadership, it's so easy for individual teachers or diff- individual people to, uh, to, uh, make a case for why they don't have to be involved.
[00:39:00] Mm-hmm. And, and if the leadership does not believe it, and does not, uh, think that everybody needs to be involved, it's so easy to let one go. "Okay, you're excused. You convinced me." Mm-hmm. And then you know what happens. Here comes another one. Here comes another one. So I know that, um, you know, you mentioned that you start with, with the willing, but that has to only be a start.
[00:39:27] I mean, it has to be- Yeah ... it, it, we're not here because a group of teachers who are eager to learn, uh, caused this to happen. I mean, this is a school-wide issue. Like you mentioned, the PE teacher's gonna be involved. So it, it's gotta be everybody. Everybody's gotta be trained. Every classroom is, is gonna be visited.
[00:39:48] Everybody's gonna have conversations with faith. Everybody i- is gonna do it. Otherwise, uh, it's just another thing. Yeah. And once you st- once you start doing these few things that, that I'm talking about, the teachers begin to realize, "Well, this is different When you sit down with a teacher and you model what you do with kids, and you say, "Well, wait a second.
[00:40:13] Let me show you the video of me doing this," uh, that's different. That's different than, like you said, somebody just coming in, some academic, "Let me s- you know, let me talk to you," and, and then leaving. Uh, you have to be committed. You, you know, the c- the consultant has to be committed, and the district or the site has to care as much as you do.
[00:40:36] Yeah. Because if they don't care as much as you do, y- you know, it's ... And, and it ju- it just won't happen. And, and I think teachers, administrators are so used to consultants coming in, doing the one and done- Mm-hmm ... you know, not having anything happen, that when you come or somebody like you, and the way we do our work too, is that- Yeah
[00:41:02] they realize it's different, and the teachers realize it's different. It takes them a while to convince ... And, you know, and you're wonderful, Faith, but it still takes them a while to trust- Mm-hmm ... that what you're saying is, is happening. Yeah. So it, it, it's just a, it's just an all on deck, you know, every- all hands on deck to make, to make something happen.
[00:41:22] And there's, there's a saying about, uh, when, when we talk about changing districts and, and making change in districts. People like to say, "Well, it's like turning a big ship. It takes, it takes forever." Well, that's true to change everything, but there are things you could do the next day. I say consultants come in and they spin that wheel on the deck, you know- Yeah
[00:41:45] like you said. Uh, I'm gonna show you what you could do tomorrow, and, and, and everybody, and everybody can do it. Uh, so it's, it's a different mindset with respect to just what do I expect from these consultants. Yeah. And I just think as, as a consultant, it's not hard to stand out, uh, because I, I'm, I'm down on a lot of educational consultants.
[00:42:10] I'm, I'm just down because I know what they do, I know what they don't do, and what they don't do is the hard work that you're talking about doing in the classroom with those teachers.
[00:42:20] Speaker 5: Yeah, I, the part that stood out to me that you just talked about was like, I think, uh, a consultant could so easily come in and be like, "Here's what I think you should do," or, "Here's my little PD.
[00:42:33] I'm gonna send you a bill, and I'm out." And it's really no skin off of their back whether it works or not. You know what I mean? Yeah. And for me, I'm realizing this about myself now that I'm not a teacher, because it was so personal for me in the classroom. And guess what? It's really personal for me in schools as well as a consultant.
[00:42:53] It's just a part of who I am where I'm- Yeah ... when I'm in, I'm all in. And like, I, I just this week was saying this with a school that I was in where I was like, "But I want... Like, I'm invested in these scores." Like now I wanna know that's the ultimate measure of if we are successful in this, like by these, these big state standardized reading tests that are gonna come-
[00:43:15] Speaker 4: Yeah
[00:43:16] Speaker 5: in the spring. Because all of this effort, right, we, I, I wanna know. And I, I'm, I'm counting on those scores just as much as these people are to, to measure my effectiveness with them. Um, and then it's like that ca- capacity building part w- you know, you were talking about of like, I think these leaders that are humble enough to say, "You know what?
[00:43:37] I need a coach too. I've gotta learn too." And then being like, "Help me build my capacity. Help me to lead up so that I can then do this work." You know, you wanna put yourself out of a job. Like, consultants shouldn't- Yeah ... just be like camping out for decades in a school, um, if you're doing it right. You're, you're building capacity within that local model- Right
[00:43:58] so that it's sustainable after you're, you're not there.
[00:44:01] Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You know, uh, so you, you talked about your heart is with them. You know, as, as you leave, you still have that, that empathy and that, you know... It, it's not quite like having a student, but it's a lot like having a student. Yeah. But let me tell you where the heartbreak comes.
[00:44:21] You go in, and you work with a school for a couple years, and they hire a new superintendent, and then they're gone
[00:44:28] Speaker 5: Yeah ...
[00:44:28] Speaker 4: that's, that is heartbreaking. Yeah. And that's happened many times, uh, to us during my, during my decades in, in doing this work. And, uh, the only, uh, saving grace is just like, you know how, you know, you'll have a student and years later they'll come back and they'll tell you how much- Yeah
[00:44:49] teachers will do the same thing. Teachers, you know, the school may have changed, but the teachers will tell you, you know, what they did when you were gone. I just kept doing it, you know? Yeah. And, and I think that, that, that's a, that's a great thing about what you do. It doesn't ... The other initiatives, you could have a bunch of initiatives- Mm-hmm
[00:45:10] that are not doing well. There's no focus, you know? And, and, and- Yeah ... having a bunch of initiatives is not good. But what you do, Faith, um, everybody needs that. Everybody needs to do it, and they can continue. And this is what I tell teachers sometimes, "If you know what I'm telling you, if you know this, you can work anywhere.
[00:45:31] You can get a job anywhere."
[00:45:33] Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and to your point, it's, it's, um, the power of word of mouth, right? Like the work speak- Yeah ... should speak for itself. So, like, I have the website, right, as kind of a, a baseline expectation now that I'm doing this. But honestly, like, I, I'm not actively advertising because I just feel like the work will speak for itself.
[00:45:55] And if, if people, you know, hear this conversation even and are like, "Wow, the approach that you're describing, um, kind of jives with our values," then, then great. But if not, then that's okay.
[00:46:08] Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. There's, uh, no hard feelings, so.
[00:46:11] Speaker 5: Yep. Yeah.
[00:46:12] Speaker 4: All right. Faith, as usual, it's a joy talking to you, and thank you for, for being on again,
[00:46:18] All right. Which you can find- Thank you, Gene ... Oh, you're welcome. And you can see on Twitter, Facebook, you'll see advertisements for that. 50 bucks.
[00:46:27] Speaker 5: Yeah, that's it.
[00:46:27] Speaker 4: Man. Come
[00:46:28] Speaker 5: on. And it includes food for the day.
[00:46:30] Speaker 4: Come on down. Come on down. Thank you, Faith.
[00:46:33] Speaker 5: Thank you so much, Gene. Appreciate you always.
[00:46:36] Speaker 6: If you've been enjoying these podcasts, please tell a friend, and also leave a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever else you listen to your podcasts. It really helps other listeners find the show. To find out more about me and the work I do, you can go to my website at tesscg.com.
[00:46:56] That's T-E-S-S-C-G.com. And while you're there, you'll be able to learn about how to order my books, Teach Fast! The Science of Learning Approach to Lesson Design, Maximizing the Impact of Coaching Cycles, and the latest book, which I've co-authored with Dr. Frank Rodriguez and Dr. Donna Smith, Digital Captives.
[00:47:18] Thank you for listening