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Manhood often feels like navigating through uncharted territory, but you don't have to walk alone. Join us as we guide a conversation about how to live intentionally so that we can join God in reclaiming the masculine restorative presence he designed us to live out. Laugh, cry, and wonder with us as we explore the ins and outs of manhood together.
Shut Downs and Melt Downs
00:00
So guys, welcome to the podcast. This is Jesse French and excited to be here with my trusty cohost, Chris Bruno. Welcome you guys. Good to be here in another conversation together with you, Chris. I wanna just start it out today by setting up a little story that is real fresh in my mind, but probably one that we can relate to. And that just is the horrendous, horrendous experience of your car dying, right? Have you been there? You've been there.
00:29
happened there. Right. And it is it is such it's the worst. And last night it happened to me. We were I was leaving basketball practice with my daughter. We were trying to get home to eat a quick bite for dinner and then head to church and get in my pickup and turn the ignition key and my dashboard starts flickering and making this really weird really strange kind of clicking sound. And then I go to turn my truck off.
00:59
and the key won't come out of the ignition. And, you know, like all of the signs that are literally flashing at me saying, something is very wrong, right? Yeah. And so instantly, you know, the blood pressure spikes and I get just super cranky and start to fiddle with it, right? Nothing is happening. I even take the key out and the dome lights are flashing and my daughter's looking at me and I'm.
01:26
just instantly the steam starts coming out of the ears of like, and this is, it couldn't have come at a worst time, right? Of things that we needed to do that evening and was a long day already. So I called my wife who lives close. Luckily. And I was like, maybe we can jump it. And your wife lives close, lives close. Like we were at the school. Sorry. We were at the school leaving basketball practice. Yeah. Good point. Good point. Yeah. That would've been weird. Otherwise.
01:56
Verifying. Yeah. Thank you. So she comes over with the jump, you know, to jump the truck, hoping this this will work. But the jumper cables are, you know, you know, where this is headed to no avail. Fiddle around with it. Yeah. And then ultimately, and she's been incredibly patient and the whole time, my mind is just spinning. Right. And the whole question is like, well, what do I do? What do I do? Right. And it was incredibly obvious, like, I don't know.
02:24
there's multiple different scenarios we could do, end up driving home. And it's at this point that the meltdown continues for me because some important decisions are needing to be made, whether am I gonna take my daughter to youth group? Are we going to get it towed? Like all of the necessary decisions that need communication, right? There needs to be some, hey, I think we should do this. And I am totally silent.
02:54
just in my head, playing through all those scenarios, but communicating nothing to my family about it. Two, the understandable exasperation of my wife, right? As she's trying to say, hey, can we talk about this? And I muttered kind of a poorly formed thesis about taking the battery to AutoZone to get it tested. And she's like, okay, what does that mean? My daughter is looking at me, unsure of like, are we gonna go to youth group? Like there just was uncertainty and-
03:23
frustration and questions was just thick everywhere and I was communicating so poorly. So not my proudest moment. In fact, one that I wish I could go back differently and I'm still in the process of sorting that out with my family, but I wanted to share that because I do think that dumpster fire of a story that that is, it does illustrate some common ways I think that we as men often navigate the world, especially, yeah, just.
03:51
Not only trying situations, but just in general. And I think the categories of that we want to explore today are two that feel common to men. Yeah. Oh, so. Okay. So that is a truck still sitting in the parking lot of the school. It was this morning. We got it towed. The mechanic called me this morning and was like, Hey, we'll take a look at it. And so it's in process. Yeah. And it's in the hands of someone else to tell you what to do. And I'm sorry. Okay.
04:21
Thanks. Shoot. Well, Jesse, thanks for sharing the story. I think all of us guys have been there at some level, whether it's a broken, you know, flat tire or something up with the battery. I can remember a couple of times pulling over and like dashlight flashing and all that kind of stuff. It's the worst feeling in the world. You feel so helpless. It totally is. Ah, I'm in the middle of nowhere and I can't do anything about this. And we have things to do. So anyway. Yeah. Yeah.
04:47
So today we're, we're talking about, you use the word shutdown. Um, we're talking about shutdowns and meltdowns and I think real positive. Yeah. Positive conversations. You know, what is it? How does Caleb talk about it? You know, positive encouraging, you know, Kayla, that's, that's not the podcast today. Negative discouraging shutdown meltdown. Yeah. Yeah. There we go. Yeah. So Jesse, I was in a conversation.
05:15
with a wife a couple of weeks ago. And this family lives out in California and they are, they're very, how do I want to say it? He has a really good job. He's really high up in the tech industry and has a really good job. Comes from a family story history.
05:42
that put a lot of pressure on him to get all the degrees and get all the advancements and to do all the things. And that family pressure is still pretty significant from his, you know, larger extended family pressure. Uh, they got married and had four children. And through the last probably, what is it now? 20 years or so, they started out their marriage, you know, faithful believers, all of that. They started out their marriage.
06:11
with all the hope in the world and all the desire in the world. And now 20 years later, I was talking with the wife and she was just sharing with me how desolate their marriage feels, how empty it feels and how much longing she has had through the last 20 years for her husband to be present, to be engaged, to be part of the dynamics with the children and all of that. And, and I think,
06:40
The hard thing is that on paper, this family has all the check boxes. They go to church every Sunday. There's plenty of food and provision and a beautiful house and they're involved in church small group and he's faithful and like all the things that are happening on paper that show that this family should be doing well. But out in California,
07:07
there's this, and especially in the tech industry, there's this pressure to pursue advancement, advancement, advancement, and then there's this family culture that is to pursue advancement, advancement, advancement, that the desolation in their marriage over time has just grown extremely more vacuous and desolate. And so when we talk about the word shutdown, I feel like what has happened for him,
07:33
This is a classic example and probably an extreme example, but a classic example of what ends up happening for a lot of men when the call of life, the things of life, the careers of life, the thing, you know, whatever that is, it invites us to a shutdown place of distance and not being present, not showing up in our worlds, not bringing our strength and tenderness as we've talked about, like all of those kinds of things we just shut down to
08:01
the actual benefit that we bring to the world. We think that our benefit is through our provision and protection of our family. And there is value there, but it's not just there. It's actually in our presence. So one of the, one of the metaphors that we use often in restoration project is like there is a nuclear power plant in the heart of every man. And when that nuclear power plant is turned on, there is light and warmth that he brings to the world. But when it is shut down,
08:30
There is cold and darkness and it's significant. Yeah. Yeah. It's so true. That metaphor, like we, like you said, we've used it so many times and there's just this, this nodding, right? Usually that happens with people have like, Oh yeah, that, that is true. It has this incredible potential to bring light and goodness in life or to just be incredibly destructive and harmful. And so I want to ask Chris, my mind goes to
08:58
why is that shut down space needed? And I say that because I think it, I'm not trying to like let myself off the hook from what happened last night, but I feel like there's some reasons, right? That we, we as men choose to show up in that way and react and to withdraw and to shut down. And it probably is different for everyone, but I do feel like there's some common themes for why that is a response that becomes ingrained and we choose in our life. Well, so...
09:27
I'm going to answer that question with another story. Do it. So I was talking with another wife. Okay. This was a couple of months ago and this other wife, like they, the bottom line is this, Jesse, that instead of the shutdown in this marriage, there was a meltdown in what he ended up doing.
09:52
was he ended up going kind of totally off the rails in substance abuse, in pornography use, in other kinds of external relationships. If we talk about that nuclear power plant that was designed by God to have like in operation, it brings light and warmth. But what ended up happening was that there was some cracking in the foundations of that nuclear power plant and it started to leak and melt down.
10:21
And so he started to go in these other directions away from this marriage, away from the family. And it ended up totally decimating the marriage and, and relationship. They're now divorced. The kids that they have are just kind of all reeling in their own way. And so, you know, that the fact that they, you know, this wife now lives in the South.
10:47
And she's now got like the red letter of divorce on her, on her forehead and, and he's, you know, moved on to these other places and all that kind of stuff. And, and like I said, the kids are trying to figure out what, do I go to dad's house? Do I go to mom's house? Like what's happening here? And all that stuff. It's just devastating to see. So the reason I say that is that far too often I feel like we as men with this nuclear power plant in our hearts,
11:15
when we start to feel stirrings of something, we either go to shut down or meltdown. And I think some of the benefit of the shutdown is to protect us from the meltdown, right? When you have a breakdown in, in the nuclear power plant, like shut the thing down, like close it off, like close, you know, turn it off. But what ends up, ends up happening is that if that becomes now the state in which we live,
11:43
that I need to pull away to protect my family from my rage, my anger, my violence, my words, all the things, you know, that are running through your head maybe while you're trying to figure out what to do with the truck. You do need to like shut it down and pull it away a little bit so that there's not debris, relational debris left around you. But if you live in a state of shutdown, it is just as if not more devastating than meltdown.
12:09
And I feel like it's important for us to hold both ends of that spectrum and, and kind of keep tabs of which direction are we heading towards? How do we modulate and stay in a place that no, I get to, I need to, I get to be, and I get, you know, be present and bring that, that strength and tenderness of my presence to the world. I do matter here. And it does matter if I'm shutting down or melting down and I want to keep myself in that modulated kind of space. So,
12:38
That's why I answer your question of shut down is sometimes helpful if it's preventing a meltdown, but if it becomes the way that we live in the state that we live in, then it's just as devastating. Yeah. So in a previous conversation, we talked about fathering and the need for men to be able to offer their fathering to the world. And you talked about fathering as primarily an offering of our presence. And so kind of frame that idea of
13:08
presence of strength and tenderness as a descriptor of our presence. How does that fit within kind of this continuum or this metaphor of, of shutdown and meltdown? Like where, where does presence fall within this, this metaphor? Yeah. Well, so I think about even the term nuclear power plant. Okay. That the middle word there is power, right? And when I think about the
13:35
the modulation between shutdown and meltdown is that it is right there in the middle of a meltdown is the out of control power. A shutdown is the absence of power. And so it's either, you know, a zero or a hundred on the power scale and presence is right there in the middle of holding. I will be strong.
14:04
I will hold myself well. I will be, like, I am going to be here. I am not going to allow evil to have its way. I won't allow for us to be lost. I won't allow for these things to, like, overwhelm us and overtake us. I'm not gonna allow you to harm me or me to harm you. Like, you know, whatever, I'm not gonna allow that. And I'm also not gonna turn into this violent, powerful, decimating force to destroy you either.
14:33
I'm going to hold my strength modulated by my tenderness. I'm going to hold my tenderness modulated by my strength. So it's, it's holding the two of those so that I'm not, you know, flaming up or flaming out. I'm not going to melt down and I'm not going to shut down. I'm holding that presence in. I will be here. Yeah. And there again in truck moments, we might need to actually shut down a little bit so that we can keep from decimating the people around us.
15:01
And sometimes we need to amp up in order to address evil and, and protect, you know, bring more protection in the moment, you know, from a some kind of perpetration against us or against the people that we love. But really we need to hold that, that middle ground. Yeah. That's what I think about bringing our fathering presence. That's so good. And I think, I think that fathering presence always are also.
15:26
helps inform what is most needed in those spaces, right? So in the example last night, I was in just fully consumed by the problem of, my truck won't start, the implications of this for tonight and then for tomorrow are very inconvenient and frustrating and budgetary, how much is it gonna cost, all that. All of those problems were running through my head as this is what needs the fixing, right? Of like,
15:54
I need to figure out how to fix all of those. And those are, yeah, on one level, are those real for sure. But in that, I totally lost the awareness of, in the moment, my family's looking to me right now, not my seven-year-old son is not asking, gosh, dad, you better figure out if it's the alternator or the battery. He's actually looking at me and like with his eyes asking, like, are we okay?
16:25
Are we okay right now? And I had no awareness of that. Yeah. And so I share that to say, when I'm able to zoom out and really assess and say, look, the need, what was needed most from me was not the problem solving of that issue. What was needed most from me was my presence to those around me and the presence of, am I here? Are we going to be okay? Like that is actually what is most required. And so even,
16:54
beginning to have more eyes for that instead of how do I deal with these problems at work or problem solve this piece of it? Like our families and our relationships are actually wanting us and our own presence, not our ability to fix problems, right? Well I love how you just said that because what your children needed was your presence. And their okayness is based off of your okayness, right? Are we okay, dad? Are you okay?
17:24
If you're okay, then we're okay. Yeah. Yeah. And you needed to fix, you needed to figure out what to do. For sure. So, right. But it wasn't the first thing. The first thing. Yeah. And your example of, you know, the shutdown in the, in the cab of the car or whatever it is, like that is one thing. But these two scenarios that I shared, you know, of the, of the, the wife in California and the wife in the South and
17:53
the impact that both of those husbands had by nature of their chronic shutdown and their chronic meltdown. That is where like so much debris ends up occurring in the world because of the chronic nature of that. And I think the hard thing is that it is easier to shut down and easier to meltdown. Totally, so much easier, absolutely. So much easier. And so-
18:22
Defaulty as well. Like it's what we can default to that it takes a little bit more not a little bit more a lot more gumption presence awareness of our own selves to go like okay What is needed of me right now? My presence is needed Let me tend to these things whether it's my car battery or my Thought life or whatever. Let me tend to those things in a moment. What is needed most right now is my presence
18:51
I think at the end of the day too, probably the hardest thing...
18:57
This is a hard thing for me to say. Okay. Do it, do it anyways. I would imagine, Jesse, that the man who melted down his family is aware of the impact of his decisions. The harder one is I am pretty sure that the man that has shut down is not aware of the impact of his decisions.
19:25
That when we throw a grenade on things, we're aware of the explosion. But when we suck the air out of the room, it is a slow death. And the people around us are like, they're slowly starting to suffocate and feel the effects of suffocation. That they're not able to even identify what's happening for a long, long, long, long time. And so I feel like the shutdown.
19:54
is even more difficult to identify than the meltdown. It's just more evident. Right. Right. So my encouragement for guys listening right now is like, oh, let's be aware of where we're shutting down. Because I think if you're listening to this, you know, there's something about you that wants to be present. There is something about you that wants to be a restorative man. That's what it's all about, becoming a restorative man.
20:19
So if there's something about you that is wanting to do that, let's start by looking at in what ways are we shutting down where our, where our presence is being sucked away, even like incrementally rather than an whole nothing, right? Just can we be more present today? Just today. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I think when we, when we do try to have that awareness,
20:47
like anything that is practiced, there is a greater sensitivity over time, right? Of even in the subtle ways, right? Maybe it's not, hey, I just, you know, was gone for the whole day playing golf, nothing against golf, but like, you know, we begin to actually have an awareness of, oh, even in 15 minutes after dinner, there, even if I was physically present, right? Like in the living room with my family, like was I truly present there, right? Like just that ability to become
21:17
become more aware of, of those patterns feels, feels doable. Right. Um, as anything that can be practiced. Yes. Yes. So, well, there's our uploading episode, uh, uplifting episode for today is, uh, shutdowns and meltdowns. So that's right. So you're welcome. Thank you. Or so yeah, yeah. I hope you guys have a good day and can show up in the world that you find yourself in today. Thanks Chris.