Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques

How to unlock the power of groups through collective communication.

They say teamwork makes the dream work. But as Colin Fisher knows, unlocking the power of groups requires a specific kind of collective communication.
Fisher is an associate professor of organizations and innovation at University College London School of Management and author of The Collective Edge: Unlocking the Secret Power of Groups. His research reveals the dichotomy of group dynamics: "Groups can be the pinnacle of human accomplishment," he says. "But groups also have these tendencies to restrict us, to take away our individuality, and to sometimes make us the worst versions of ourselves.” The key, he argues, is fostering communication that maximizes the creative synergy of collaboration while minimizing the pressure to conform.
In this episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, Fisher joins host Matt Abrahams to share evidence-based strategies for effective teamwork, from selecting the ideal group size to fostering psychological safety. Whether with our coworkers, our families, or our friends, Fisher’s insights reveal how collective communication can make or break group success.

To listen to the extended Deep Thinks version of this episode, please visit FasterSmarter.io/premium.

Episode Reference Links:
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Chapters:

  • (00:00) - Introduction
  • (03:13) - Advantages and Disadvantages of Groups
  • (04:47) - What Makes Teams Successful
  • (06:31) - The Ideal Group Size
  • (07:27) - Building Psychological Safety
  • (09:43) - Launching a Team for Success
  • (14:04) - Making Meetings More Effective
  • (17:19) - The Final Three Questions
  • (25:18) - Conclusion

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Creators and Guests

Host
Matt Abrahams
Lecturer Stanford University Graduate School of Business | Think Fast Talk Smart podcast host
Guest
Colin Fisher
Professor at UCL School of Management | Author | Speaker

What is Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques?

One of the most essential ingredients to success in business and life is effective communication.

Join Matt Abrahams, best-selling author and Strategic Communication lecturer at Stanford Graduate School of Business, as he interviews experts to provide actionable insights that help you communicate with clarity, confidence, and impact. From handling impromptu questions to crafting compelling messages, Matt explores practical strategies for real-world communication challenges.

Whether you’re navigating a high-stakes presentation, perfecting your email tone, or speaking off the cuff, Think Fast, Talk Smart equips you with the tools, techniques, and best practices to express yourself effectively in any situation. Enhance your communication skills to elevate your career and build stronger professional relationships.

Tune in every Tuesday for new episodes. Subscribe now to unlock your potential as a thoughtful, impactful communicator. Learn more and sign up for our eNewsletter at fastersmarter.io.

Matt Abrahams: We are all members
of multiple groups and teams, our

families, our coworkers, our friends.

The ability to communicate
effectively in groups is critical.

My name is Matt Abrahams, and I
teach strategic communication at

Stanford Graduate School of Business.

Welcome to Think Fast
Talk Smart, the podcast.

Today I am really excited to
spend time with Colin Fisher.

Colin is an associate professor of
organizations and innovation at University

College London School of Management.

His research focuses on helping
groups and teams in situations

requiring creativity, improvisation,
and complex decision making.

His latest book is The Collective Edge:
Unlocking The Secret Power of Groups.

Welcome, Colin.

I'm really excited for our conversation.

Colin Fisher: Thanks so
much for having me, Matt.

Looking forward to it.

Matt Abrahams: Excellent.

Shall we get started?

Colin Fisher: Yeah.

Matt Abrahams: Like you, I have long been
fascinated by groups and their impact.

I used to teach classes on group
communication, and I always

start by talking to my students
about the benefits and perils of

groups, so I thought it would make
sense for us to start there too.

From your perspective, can you
share what are the advantages

and some of the disadvantages of
groups and the work we do in them?

Colin Fisher: The advantages of groups
are, on some level, they're almost so

obvious we don't even think about them,
that we bring more minds to the problem.

We bring more people's labor, that
the idea that many hands make light

the work, is why we come to groups.

We can accomplish things that we could
never do if we tried to go it alone.

Groups can be, in my mind, the
pinnacle of human accomplishment.

But as your question implies,
there's some downsides too.

Groups can also be these engines to
produce conformity, to really restrict

people's individuality, that we have
terms like group think or you know, that

we call these groups, that have these
extreme conformity pressures to be cults.

And that groups have all these tendencies
within them as well to restrict us to,

to take away our individuality and to
sometimes make us the worst versions of

ourselves where they bring out of us this
kind of tribalism that is at the root

of war and intergroup conflict and all
kinds of terrible things in the world.

So, so groups really are this dichotomy.

Matt Abrahams: Absolutely.

On one side we have this notion
of creativity, which really

can bring out the best in us.

And then we have on the other side,
extreme conformity, which can really

lead to a lot of negative things.

So the trick becomes how do we
maximize for the benefits of groups

and minimize for those negatives?

So what are key ingredients for
successful teams, teaming, and teamwork.

I think about things like diversity of
participation, psychological safety,

having clear purpose, clear roles.

What do you see as some of
the most important aspects

for successful group work?

Colin Fisher: You got some of the really
important ones right off the bat there.

The benefits of groups come
from having diverse knowledge,

skills, and perspectives.

The, the kind of synergy that we
talk about in group work really only

emerges when we don't all think the
same thing, when we don't all have

the same knowledge and skills, and
that we share them with one another.

So we need to compose groups carefully.

But one of the things that we often make
a mistake in when we compose them is that

we don't think about how big those groups
should be, and so we end up often with

groups most commonly that are too big.

Prototypical example
of these are meetings.

We can all imagine one of the worst
things to be in is a meeting that's

got twenty people in it, because
we know we're not gonna be able to

really hear everyone's perspective.

We're not gonna be able to know what
everyone knows, what everyone thinks.

The only thing worse than this meeting
of twenty people is a meeting with

twenty-five people or thirty people.

We have to be thoughtful about how
big a group can really be to have

this kind of synergistic interaction.

Matt Abrahams: So I'm curious, what
does the research say about group size?

Is there an ideal group size?

Does it depend on the task
you're trying to complete?

Colin Fisher: It does depend on
the task you're trying to complete.

I like to give a fairly definitive answer
to this because it doesn't depend as

much on the task as we'd like to think.

One is a line of research that looks
across different tasks at the effect

of group size on team performance, and
the there you get answers depending on

the task, anywhere from three to seven.

But then when you ask people,
when do you feel like the groups

you're in are too big or too small?

You get the line of my group is too
big and my group is too small, they

cross, right about four point five.

We feel that groups are the right
size between four and five, and

that we see performance measures
be anywhere from three to seven.

And so I think those are pretty
good guidelines for thinking about

how big your group should be.

Matt Abrahams: I think having an anchor
for group size is really important

because there's a tendency to want to
include more people, or perhaps because

other communication challenges exist
within an organization, meetings become

the only way to convey information.

So more is better, is often the mindset,
but it sounds like that's not the case.

I'd like to dig a little deeper
into a couple of the other aspects.

We had Amy Edmondson on, we talked
a bit about psychological safety.

Curious to get your perspective on how
we go about building groups that can be

more effective by making sure that those
diverse points of view and perspectives

feel comfortable being shared.

Colin Fisher: If you've talked
to Amy, you've really gotten the

best advice that's out there.

Psychological safety, as you were saying,
it's so important because even if we get

this diverse mix of knowledge, skills,
and perspectives onto our team, we still

aren't gonna take advantage of it unless
people are comfortable sharing it.

They're comfortable speaking
up with different ideas.

They're comfortable asking questions.

They're comfortable admitting mistakes
and trying experiments and failing.

And the way that we build that
psychological safety is that first

we ask for it, that we say the work
that we're gonna be doing is gonna

require us to share our different
knowledge, skills, and perspectives.

It's gonna require us to take risks, that
we're gonna have some things to learn.

And that's always true because
any new team has to figure out

how to work together at a minimum.

They've gotta figure out how to
communicate, and they're going to need

to do some of this learning and some of
this experimentation to make it happen.

Another way that you can build this kind
of psychological safety is to model it.

So especially if you're a leader for you
to admit your own mistakes, for you to

ask questions that you might worry are
dumb questions, for you to do experiments

and say, hey, I'm learning too.

This is what I'm gonna try.

Let's see how it goes.

And to model those kinds of behaviors.

And then of course, to not shoot the
messenger and not to, when people do

speak up, they do share their ideas,
they do ask questions that are on their

mind, that you reinforce that with
positive reinforcement, you encourage it.

You don't criticize people
for doing those things.

Matt Abrahams: So it's about setting
expectations for this sharing of

different viewpoints that mistakes
are acceptable and actually needed

for the group to be successful.

And as a leader or somebody who has
a leadership role, demonstrating this

in your own actions, role modeling,
I think those are great ways to

help people understand that this is
important and reinforce these values.

Are there certain things we can
do when a group forms that really

helps set us on a path of success?

You know, this notion of forming
sometimes happens very quickly.

There's a crisis and we have
to pull people together.

Other times it's more thoughtful.

Can you give two or three best
practices for group formation that

can really set you on a good path?

Colin Fisher: So group formation is
such an important time in a group's life

that the stuff that we do when we first
get together tends to be really sticky.

We all can imagine the first time we
meet with a new group at work or a

new class at school, people tend to
sit in the same place the whole time.

Where we sit, who talks
first, who talks the most.

These kinds of norms form
really early, and so we wanna

manage that really carefully.

Now with group formation,
some of the work should happen

before we ever get in the room.

The work of thinking about the task,
thinking about composing that group

well, the group size and diversity of
knowledge, skills, and perspectives, all

those things should be done ahead of time.

But then once we're, what I
would call launching the group,

and there's three big tasks.

One is we need to bring that
goal to life and make sure we

all understand it similarly.

So we need to have a very clear and
vivid communication of that goal.

So the kind of classic business
school examples of these are like

when John F. Kennedy repurposed NASA,
which had a very ambiguous goal,

prior to his charge, for them to put
a man on the moon within ten years.

So that was a very clear, vivid
goal that everyone can imagine.

So even if we don't have a clear idea
of what we need to do first, or what

we need to do tomorrow, the fact that
we can all imagine the future vividly,

that we need to get to collectively,
allowed people to stay coordinated

and to synchronize their efforts.

So we need these kinds of clear,
vivid goals to, to get us together.

And then second, we need to
establish these initial norms.

So the fact that norms are sticky
and they form really fast, we can use

that to our advantage by doing some of
the things we talked about when we're

establishing psychological safety.

To say, I wanna have a team where we all
share what we know, where we speak up when

we have an idea, and how can we do that.

We can have that conversation.

But the most important things
I think are close to your heart

are norms about communication.

How are we gonna communicate
with one another?

And that some of these are really
basic things like, what communication

channels are we even going to use?

I can't tell you how many teams I've
seen where some people are communicating

through one channel, and a few people
don't use that channel, don't know.

So some people aren't signed up for
Slack, they don't get notifications,

they don't know what's being said there.

So some of it's really basic about
where are we gonna communicate, but

then we also need norms for how quickly
are we responding to each other.

That, when do I think you haven't
seen this email, is it one day, two

days, a week, you know, and that
different teams can have different

norms, but as long as we're clear,
we can communicate effectively.

And then we need to have understanding
of the individual responsibilities

and work that we're gonna have
between now and the next time we talk.

And this could be the beginnings
of roles, they could be really

formal roles, but that needs to be
clear what I need to do between now

and the next time we're gonna be
collectively accountable to one another.

So if we do those three things, that
we have clear vivid goals, we have

norms, especially norms for how we're
gonna communicate and that they're

promoting psychological safety, and
we know what our responsibilities are,

and we know the deadline by which those
responsibilities to the group are set,

then we have a pretty darn good launch.

Matt Abrahams: Vivid goals that people are
aligned towards, norms, which are simply

just expectations for what and how we
will interact, and responsibilities for

the actions that we'll follow up with.

Very important.

And, and the key thing you've said there
is that work has to happen in advance.

We have to think about these things
before we pull people together.

And in fact, thinking about
these things might determine who

we pull together and how many.

I wanna switch now and talk about
the way in which we do group work,

which is primarily meetings and
most people don't like meetings.

What is your advice on how to make the
group time in meetings more effective?

What are things we can do
to have better meetings?

Colin Fisher: So that's a great
question, and it's such a common one.

Sometimes I ask myself the
same thing in my organization.

The number one tip is to not ask
what can I do to have a better

meeting, but to ask should we have
this meeting in the first place.

As we said, norms are really sticky.

And so if we start having this norm that
we're gonna have boring meetings, that

people are gonna be disengaged and not
speak in these meetings, not contribute

what they know, that norm's likely
to stick even if we go from a meeting

that really wasn't necessary and that
was one way communication, information

sharing, and the next time we have
a meeting where we do need people to

speak up, they're less likely to do it.

So eliminating those meetings that we
didn't need has the added benefits of

you're gonna start to develop better norms
for how people contribute in the meetings,

where you really need their contribution.

So step one, eliminate unnecessary
meetings, and that will make the

meetings you do have much better.

But then step two is likely
you are inviting too many

people to these meetings.

So just like we said, when we wanna
get real work done and we wanna

have everyone's contributions,
we wanna know what they think.

We wanna have them participate in
decision making, communicate well.

We really need to have this
kind of core group of three to

seven people around the table.

Once we've even got a group of ten,
if I've got an hour long meeting and

a group of ten, especially if they're
ten academics like us, or it's in

the university situation, the chances
that we're gonna get through that and

everyone's going to say everything
that they have to say is really low.

And if we're over ten, if we're
fifteen, we're twenty, we're

twenty-five, it's almost none.

There's almost no way we're
gonna have that meeting.

So if we can have meetings that have
very concrete outcomes, that we're

there to make a decision, we're there
to generate new ideas, we're there to

develop a new strategy, that there's
some reason that we're meeting, it's

clear to all members, and then we
invite people who have something

really to contribute towards that goal,
we're likely to have better meetings.

One way communication, if it could
have been an email, or if you prefer it

could have been a video message or an
audio message to the team, then do that.

Don't have a meeting, but that when
you do have meetings, they have

clear purposes, they have agendas,
and only the people who need to be

there are invited to those meetings.

That's gonna go a long way
towards improving your meetings.

Matt Abrahams: Amen.

Do we need a meeting?

Are there other ways to communicate?

Super important first question.

Then what are we meeting for?

What's the purpose?

Do we have a clear agenda?

Does everybody understand it?

Excellent.

Then finally being willing to cancel
a meeting or not hold a meeting if

not necessary, really important.

Thank you for sharing that.

And may everybody adopt that and may
meetings be what they truly can be, which

is really productive opportunities to
accomplish work and to feel connected.

So thank you.

Colin, this has been a
fantastic conversation.

Before we end, I like to ask
three questions of my guests.

One I create just for you, and
the other two are similar across

everybody I've interviewed.

Are you up for that?

Colin Fisher: Yeah, absolutely.

Matt Abrahams: So there's so
many things about you that

are really interesting to me.

One is you're a
professional jazz trumpeter.

I tried to play the trumpet early in my
life and failed miserably, so I'm in awe

of your ability to do it professionally.

What is one thing that you've learned
as a professional jazz trumpeter

that has helped you in terms of how
you interact with people in groups?

Colin Fisher: The essence of all
kinds of music really is listening.

I had a really famous teacher, his
name was Bob Brookmeyer, who said, when

you're improvising, you have to keep one
ear on your head and you have to take

the other ear and put it over on the
piano, oversee the whole interaction.

And so I think it's made me
listen in different ways.

It's made me more open to both
what somebody who's speaking is

saying and the whole ensemble of
the group of the communication.

And just to really attune me
to the importance of listening.

Matt Abrahams: It always amazes me that
people who study and teach communication

come back to listening, and it's
an important lesson for all of us.

We think of communication as
broadcasting, getting information out,

but receiving it is really important.

Thank you for sharing that.

Question number two, who is a
communicator that you admire and why?

Colin Fisher: I have to continue to give
credit to my mentor, Richard Hackman, who

I owe so much of the book too as well,
who took this complicated world of groups

and really started to give order to it.

I think what I respect about him
as a communicator was finding

terms that were really accurate.

His famous theory is work design, right?

And that's not like a fancy
academic set of terms.

I make fun of the term group entitativity
in the book where it's like we come

up with these like mouthfuls of
things that are really hard to say.

But just calling it work design theory
already was such a powerful communication

move to not only be clear within the
academic community, but also to be

clear to everyone else about what it
is we should be paying attention to

that we weren't paying attention to
at the time, which was the tasks and

the way that we are thinking about
structuring the work that we do.

So I think he would be one of the best
communicators that I've encountered.

Matt Abrahams: Thank you for sharing
that, and thank you for reinforcing

the idea of clarity, concision,
accessibility, are really important.

Final question for you, Colin.

What are the first three ingredients that
go into a successful communication recipe?

Colin Fisher: So I'm going
to say listening again.

When I first started studying teams, I
thought I was gonna see these people who

were these expert diagnosers of group
dynamics, that they were gonna walk into

a room and they'd look at a team and
go, oh, I know what's wrong with you.

Instead, when I started studying these
great coaches of teams, what they

did was they asked more questions.

They said, oh, how are you doing?

So they didn't magically diagnose people.

They asked them what was going on.

You ask questions, you listen to the
answer, and then you respond in ways

that both show you're concerned with
that person's intent and wellbeing

and emotional message that they
had, but then you build on it and

it's this kind of idea we find in
theater improvisation of yes and-ing.

That you say, yeah, I see
what you're saying and now I'm

gonna add something onto it.

So I think if we ask good questions, we
listen to the answer, and then we both

respond and build on those responses,
we're gonna have some great communication.

Matt Abrahams: Excellent
three ingredients.

I echo that very much.

I think those are really important.

Ask questions, listen genuinely to the
answers, and we've done a lot of episodes

on the value of improv and this notion of
responding and adding to what people say.

Colin, thank you so much for
bringing insight into a type of

communication that we all do all day.

We are parts of many different groups.

Learning to be more effective in
how we establish groups, how we make

groups work better, and ultimately,
how we feel more productive, really

can be helpful for all of us.

Thank you for your time.

Colin Fisher: Thanks so
much for having me, Matt.

Matt Abrahams: Thank you for
joining us for another episode of

Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast.

To learn more about setting groups
up for success, please listen to

episode 174 with Priya Parker.

And to improve your meetings, check
out both episodes, 125 and 125 with

Joe Allen, Karin Reed, and Elise Keith.

This episode was produced by Katherine
Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams.

Our music is from Floyd Wonder.

With special thanks to
Podium Podcast Company.

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