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Join feminist coaches Taina Brown and Becky Mollenkamp for casual (and often deep) conversations about business, current events, politics, pop culture, and more. We’re not perfect activists or allies! These are our real-time, messy feminist perspectives on the world around us.
This podcast is for you if you find yourself asking questions like:
• Why is feminism important today?
• What is intersectional feminism?
• Can capitalism be ethical?
• What does liberation mean?
• Equity vs. equality — what's the difference and why does it matter?
• What does a Trump victory mean for my life?
• What is mutual aid?
• How do we engage in collective action?
• Can I find safety in community?
• What's a feminist approach to ... ?
• What's the feminist perspective on ...?
Becky Mollenkamp (00:00.974)
Hello?
Taina Brown she/hers (00:02.126)
Hi.
Becky Mollenkamp (00:03.534)
I'm scared because we're going to wing it and that may not be good.
Taina Brown she/hers (00:08.122)
I mean we always wing it but we always have a general idea of what this is extra winging it. Like we literally have nothing. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (00:11.566)
This is extra winging it. We were literally like, I don't know. Yeah. I don't know what I'm gonna talk about. You know what you're gonna talk about. We looked at some trending topics on threads. None of those seemed to really prompt much. And you were like, let's just go and we're just gonna see where this leads. So what's happening in your life?
Taina Brown she/hers (00:24.982)
You know.
I will have a doctor's appointment today and I'm really fucking tired because I had told you yesterday off offline but had a flare-up late last week so haven't been sleeping well. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (00:42.318)
Yeah, and we talked a little bit about legal substances that can help with that. So that's something to try. Those have helped me. And I have tried, I was using melatonin only to learn that it's actually far worse than just using THC, just so people know. Like as I did a little research, I was like, oh, that's a little scary. The links between melatonin and heart disease or heart attacks. was like, I think I might go back to my other gummies.
Taina Brown she/hers (00:52.216)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (01:11.619)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (01:11.758)
for safety's sake. we talked about that. In my world, we had snow, you did too. The difference, I suppose, in my world is that I have two people in my home who both depend on the schools being open in order for them to leave the house during the week. And for me to get a little piece of quiet. And they were home the last two days because schools were closed for no good reason here in St. Louis. In other parts of country, I recognize those schools needed to be closed.
Taina Brown she/hers (01:17.106)
yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (01:39.278)
But I will tell you on Tuesday for sure they did not need to be on Monday. It was questionable, but like it's amazing to me how the difference between living in Iowa and Missouri in how people react to snow is wild. Like there you would get feet of snow, not inches and school would still be going on. Temperatures would get to zero and school would still be going on. And here it's like if it's below freezing, people start to panic. If there's a dusting of snow, God, we better close the schools.
Taina Brown she/hers (01:57.619)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (02:08.492)
And it's really frustrating for me because when they're here, it's hard to focus. So I like, then of course today, which we're recording this on Wednesday, we record on Wednesdays people. So I know it comes out on Monday, but there's the behind the curtain and today is a half day. So two days of no school. And now I get a half day, which any parent knows means really like three hours. And by the time you do all the, you know, getting there and all that, like, right, I'll have enough time to do this basically.
Taina Brown she/hers (02:22.29)
and
Taina Brown she/hers (02:28.427)
Yeah, it might as well not have gone.
You
Becky Mollenkamp (02:36.812)
And that's my day. And then, you know, then I finally do have hopefully as long as no more weather comes two more full days. But, you know, parents, one thing I'm happy to get on my soapbox about is the lack of communal or community collective support that we have for parents. And it's for all people, because I also think about like the elderly as an example with the snow. You know, we were able to take our snow blower over to my mom's house. She's she wouldn't want me to her age, but she's getting up there in age and should not be like shoveling.
Taina Brown she/hers (02:56.376)
Mmm, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (03:06.414)
and she doesn't own a snowblower, she shouldn't be pushing a snowblower either. We were able to get over there and clear her driveway for her and her, you know, front porch. But I looked at so many other houses in our neighborhood where there's no, in other neighborhoods too, where nothing's happening. My husband, bless his soul, he did the elderly neighbor on one side, he did another, he's not elderly, but an older gentleman who lived on the other side of us.
Taina Brown she/hers (03:31.021)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (03:32.802)
two doors up who are really a wonderful couple, beautiful people who are retired. They're pretty physically fit, but this was a lot of snow we had here to move. So he did one, two, three driveways just on our street and then my mom's. And then we went to go get my son, his kid, his friend to come over and play who has a single mom with two young kids, no snowblower, newly divorced, so doesn't even have a lot of stuff.
Taina Brown she/hers (03:57.996)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (03:59.606)
And he did hers. So what was that like five driveways my husband cleared? And I'm in, you know, one person. and then he cleared my mom's neighbor, who's an elderly woman who we barely know. And she came out asking what how much money he won. He's like, no, I was just I'm just helping you out. But like, it just makes me think of all the people who don't have the equipment, the means to pay someone, the physical ability to do something and how homebound you are. just saw somebody on threads posting about their their
Taina Brown she/hers (04:02.413)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (04:08.791)
Hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (04:13.227)
Just helping. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (04:20.96)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (04:28.514)
They rent an apartment that's on a second story that has steps to get down that were covered in ice. And the landlord said, he can't find any sand or any salt to come do anything about it. And she's like, I've been stranded at home now for like four days. I can't leave my home because it's too dangerous. What do I do? Of course, people were also commenting on the photo and it looked like the stairs were probably not up to code. So this is probably not a great landlord situation, but.
Taina Brown she/hers (04:33.893)
god.
Taina Brown she/hers (04:42.369)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (04:46.711)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (04:57.174)
Again, it's such a reminder in these moments of like, when we have natural disasters and or I mean, snow's not a disaster, but a sizable amount of snow creates real limits for people. And then many of these people have to go to work because they can't afford not to. Businesses aren't closed. Businesses here are like, know, yeah, we know all the schools are closed, but hey, you know, people who have office jobs, who have PTO, but the gas station, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (05:05.931)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (05:11.254)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (05:19.735)
They can work from home or take time off, but coffee shop employees, yeah, the gas station, yeah. Even like hospitals, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (05:26.444)
Service workers who we don't value. Service workers who are making no money. Many hospital workers, not all, who are very much undervalued in their compensation. Like so many people who have to get to work. And then I think if you have any limitations, whether that's age, ability, resourcing, meaning you have to shovel an entire driveway out of snow, that's, I mean, we know many heart attacks happen.
Taina Brown she/hers (05:45.834)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (05:50.849)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (05:54.572)
So anyway, I'll say like it just was a reminder for me of like how woefully lacking we are in a collective spirit. And when you show up to do something for people, it's amazing to watch what happens. Like, you my mom came out with her damn shovel and I had to yell like literally yell at her, go sit inside and stop like she can't allow people to help. You know, the other this other old.
Taina Brown she/hers (05:54.646)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (06:19.032)
There are women's like coming out saying, I guess I have to pay you, like feeling all this guilt that somebody came and did something nice. It's just wild. Like we aren't accustomed to receiving help, to giving help. And certainly collectively and structurally there isn't enough. So there's my rant for the day.
Taina Brown she/hers (06:23.914)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (06:28.821)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (06:33.526)
Yeah, we got almost two feet here and I mean, the snow came while I my flare up. I remember last season it snowed not as much as it did over this past weekend. Like maybe last time this year it wasn't even January. I think it was like March already. But I think maybe we got like six or eight inches and
my wife and I, both went out there and we shoveled it. But this year I was unable to and know, Mel was working all day and taking care of me. So she was like trying to shovel, like take breaks and shovel a little bit. And then one of our neighbors, she just had foot surgery. So she couldn't shovel her own. And so she ended up
calling some people that she paid to come and do it because she thought they had a snow blower and they show up and it's like two men in their 50s or 60s who shouldn't be out there shoveling anyway but they're doing it for pay like they're doing it yeah
Becky Mollenkamp (07:45.388)
get that. And still, again, the fact that they have to reflects another systemic issue of the fact that we don't have, we don't have any kind of pension system in the US anymore. We don't have meaningful retirement, know, social security, good luck surviving. And I posted about that recently, like, I'll have to work until I die. My husband, because he's, you know, in the health and the education system has a pension, he's one of those few people
Taina Brown she/hers (07:49.606)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.
Taina Brown she/hers (07:56.382)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (08:12.302)
left in the US who actually has a pension and that we hopefully can guarantee will actually get paid out. You know, that's not going to go bankrupt. It's not a huge amount, but it's enough that he can probably survive with that plus social security if social security is still around or get maybe a part-time kind of a gig because he'll be able to retire young enough he could do something else for a while. I don't have a pension, obviously. And as a self-employed person, I've done a lousy job of funding a retirement because
Taina Brown she/hers (08:18.601)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (08:41.91)
I just am trying to fund a life, let alone like literally a survival, forget about retirement. And when I posted that about not being able to retire on threads, the amount of people who were like, yeah, ditto, like I'll never, or I am 70 or I am 80 and I'm still working cause I can't afford to retire. Like it is, it is such a problem.
Taina Brown she/hers (08:43.827)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (08:55.604)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (09:01.733)
Yeah, yeah, they didn't even like do that great, like we paid them. They didn't even do that great of a job. Like, yes, like Mel said at the, like when they were like finished, like she went out there and the guys like leaning over our trash can like out of breath. And she's like, I just, felt so bad. Like just let them go. And then she just like cleaned up whatever they weren't able to finish. Cause it was just like, I, regardless of we paid them or not.
Becky Mollenkamp (09:08.91)
Well, cause they're probably- 60 years old, right? Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (09:31.336)
We don't want somebody having a heart attack on our, like at all, but definitely not on our property, you know, while we're paying them to do work. And so that just felt wrong.
Becky Mollenkamp (09:40.334)
Yeah, I just looked it up. 100 people a year die shoveling snow in the US. Now that's not a huge number compared to a lot of things, but they're completely unnecessary deaths. Right? Exactly. It's a completely preventable death. It could be easily prevented again with collective, a more collective care sort of approach. I saw a guy drive by with, you know, the front shovel thing on the car that makes like would take a driveway literally to probably take him five minutes tops, three minutes.
Taina Brown she/hers (09:46.208)
Yeah. That's the thing. It's unnecessary. It doesn't matter what the number is. Like, it's unnecessary.
Taina Brown she/hers (10:09.673)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (10:10.168)
to do an app like a normal driveway or two car driveway, one car. could probably do it in two swipes, right? And he's just driving by like, I'm sure because he's like, I got to get paid and he probably works for it. It like it was a company. So they're probably having to chart like he's got to bill his hours and show his time and all that. But it was it's so sad because I'm like, he could do the entire neighborhood and the time it took my husband probably to do a single drive with the snow blower and the time it would take. And in half the time, it would take one person to do a driveway with a shovel.
Taina Brown she/hers (10:14.601)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (10:21.555)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (10:39.944)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (10:40.098)
And yet we don't think that way because of capitalism. Everything's got to be, you know, commodified and monetized. And it just makes me so sad. And to be housebound for days just because there's no system in place to help you.
Taina Brown she/hers (10:45.385)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (10:53.446)
Yeah. Yeah, it's a we're supposed to get more snow this weekend too. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (10:57.406)
are you? God, I hope we're not. I haven't wanted to look.
Taina Brown she/hers (11:01.373)
Yeah, like the lows this week have been like four degrees, seven degrees. And I know it's colder in other places, but for me, I'm just like, what the fuck?
Becky Mollenkamp (11:04.938)
Yeah, we're in the same boat.
Becky Mollenkamp (11:11.414)
Yeah, we have wind chill like right now. I mean, it's 20 degrees here, but the wind chill puts it like at 10, so it's cold. We have snow next week, potentially, but thankfully this weekend we don't. However, our lows this weekend are less than like single digits to negatives, so none of this stuff is going to melt on its own, which still leaves that ish, begs the problem of these people who are still so many people that go unseen, unnoticed, uncared for in this world.
Taina Brown she/hers (11:31.154)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (11:40.088)
who are sitting alone in their homes trying to figure out what am I going to eat? How do I make this food last until I can somehow get out of this house? My medications. Like so many of us do, take for, I guess I just, for people who have privilege, I think it's important for us to have these moments where we take some stock of that privilege and to recognize things that I think we often don't even see as privileges. And one of those is the ability to go before a storm and stock up on food, on medications, to have the money to be able to do that.
Taina Brown she/hers (11:44.636)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (11:50.012)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (12:00.915)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (12:06.097)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (12:09.4)
You know, to have the ride to be able to do that, to have the space to be able to like, there are privileges involved in all of that. And there are people who didn't have that privilege and couldn't go and stock up on their medications that they need or on their food that they need. Medications, they may not even been able to get permission to get the medic, to get extras, right? All of these barriers that are in place that now, you know, potentially two weeks into a storm, it could be with, you know, in certain parts of this country, there are parts of the country because the ice that don't have power on top of that.
Taina Brown she/hers (12:21.981)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (12:34.492)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (12:38.382)
So they're sitting in the cold. They're freezing and worried about food, worried about medications. it's just we got to do better at some. I just ordered a book from the library I'm very excited about called Mutual Aid. I'm going look up who it's by. But I heard good things about it from online from some person that like curates books that are all like real liberatory books. And so I'm really excited to get that because it's called, hold on.
Taina Brown she/hers (12:47.645)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (13:09.551)
Well, when I find it, I'll let you know. But I'm excited about it because it's a book that is all about how we create better and more mutual aid for ourselves. And I'm excited to read it because I want to learn more. Like, what else can I be doing? Here it is. It's called Mutual Aid, Building Solidarity During This Crisis and the Next by Dean Spade. Have you read it?
Taina Brown she/hers (13:22.384)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (13:35.266)
Dean Spade, yeah, yeah, that's, yeah, yeah, I have it. It is, it is. I've known of Dean Spade's work for a while. When I was finishing up my bachelor's, they came and spoke to, like on my campus once. And we read some of their stuff also in one of my classes. And so they're very, yeah, they're very like,
Becky Mollenkamp (13:39.448)
Good. Is it good? Is it worth my read?
Taina Brown she/hers (14:04.147)
community, collectivists, kind of a thinker.
Becky Mollenkamp (14:08.106)
look at this. So Dean Spade has a podcast called Love and a Fucked Up World, which I'm very excited now to learn about. And I believe I just looked, looks like Dean uses the pronouns he. It's on his website, it says he, so okay. And he interviewed Adrienne Marie Brown for his first episode. Have you seen that or read, listen to it?
Taina Brown she/hers (14:15.41)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (14:21.646)
Okay. Okay.
Taina Brown she/hers (14:28.882)
No, no, I haven't. I haven't listened to it. Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (14:30.83)
I'll try to remember to drop a link in this for people who want to check it out. I haven't listened, so I can't say, but I'm going to listen because you're very favorite person, I think, in the world besides, you know, the people who are perfect. I know we've got to get we've got to get that back. So that should be interesting to hear between these two people. interestingly, there's another video. I'm very excited to discover this Dean Spade person that they didn't know. And hey, Dean, come on our show, which says should show.
Taina Brown she/hers (14:38.227)
Yeah, I haven't, I haven't mentioned her in a long time.
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (14:59.264)
Should social movement work be paid? I'm interested to listen to that and what is the take on that. So anyway, check out it's deanspade.net if people are interested in learning more about his work. But I'm excited to read that book because that is, I mean, I can't tell you more and more where my head is at with that. I've been hosting, as you know, you came to the first one, you weren't able to come the last one, but I've been hosting these what I call secret salons where it's like an invitation only kind of room.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:04.39)
Hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (15:28.716)
with really cool people who are doing really cool shit to help them meet each other and for me to be able to stay in relationship. Because one of the hardest things I think about networking or about just meeting people in the world is like you meet cool people and then you're like, I don't have a place for you. Like, where do I put you so that I can see you more? And so then those relationships fall aside and you're like, I remember meeting that cool person and then we didn't stay in touch. So my hope is this gives me these touch points where I can continue to stay in touch with all these amazing people I meet and for them to get to meet each other, which excites me.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:43.429)
Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:55.707)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (15:59.15)
But something interesting happened yesterday. Someone on the call said, how do we, how, at the end of it, when I was wrapping up, we were saying our goodbyes, someone said, like, how can we compensate you for this, for organizing this? And I didn't even address it in the, because they put it in the chat, I didn't address it then. And I was like, ugh, like, it makes me uncomfortable, right? This idea, too, it's like, this is sort of, it's part of what I consider a bit of my activism work, like bringing together.
Taina Brown she/hers (16:18.384)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (16:24.578)
helping to create more relationships amongst people who really give a shit in the world and who are trying to make a difference. I think we all need each other. And I do think the bringing together that work of creating space and cultivating relationships is meaningful. And it does feel like a bit of activism in a way. And yet I feel like, who am I to like, right? And there's labor. believe me, the amount of labor, the spreadsheets, the spreadsheets. But I also feel like I get joy out of it.
Taina Brown she/hers (16:43.268)
It is labor.
Becky Mollenkamp (16:52.002)
Which we forget, I get joy out of my work. I still charge for that. So there's all this, I got all these complicated feelings. So I sent an email follow-up to everyone just to say like, thank you for being there. Here's the ways you guys can connect with each other, whatever. And then I said, someone mentioned, I would never do this. I never do this, but somebody mentioned. So if you want to buy me a croissant instead of buy me a coffee, here's my buy me a croissant fun. And like three or four people sent me some money and it felt so meaningful. I'm like, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (17:19.332)
Hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (17:22.414)
I know that it sort of felt like this like mutual aid of like, I'm creating this space for you, you're all getting to meet each other, you're cultivating these relationships, you had this hour, like those hours always feel really, for most people who come, I think they feel really good because you're like, oh, it's just a reminder of that there are these other amazing people out here. And, and yeah, that is something meaningful. And then and then there is this like, for those who can, here's let me circulate something towards you so that you can go and like reward yourself in some way.
Taina Brown she/hers (17:36.431)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (17:51.502)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (17:52.864)
or for me to pour it back into something else. And I don't know, it was just a really nice reminder. It felt really good.
Taina Brown she/hers (17:55.163)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That actually happened to me in FEO. Yeah, like I remember, I don't remember if it was during one of the calls or just like in Slack when something happened and I ended up in a situation where I was like having to do this like extra emotional labor for a white woman in the group. And...
Becky Mollenkamp (18:00.994)
Did it?
Taina Brown she/hers (18:24.494)
And someone privately messaged me and was like, you shouldn't have had to do that, but here's like $50 or something for, yeah. it was, again, I don't really remember the circumstance that triggered it, but I remember that moment. And it was like.
Becky Mollenkamp (18:32.147)
wow, that's amazing.
Taina Brown she/hers (18:45.206)
It was, it felt like being seen, know, like validated. And so, and again, like I chose to be in that space. I chose to engage with that person to do that labor, right? And so, cause I was committed to the community to like, you know, to be there and cause there were plenty of times where.
Becky Mollenkamp (18:50.902)
Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (18:57.954)
do the labor.
Becky Mollenkamp (19:04.813)
the
Taina Brown she/hers (19:10.274)
it was similar situations, but I was like, I'm not touching that. I don't have it in me or I just don't want to, or this person, like this is a pattern with this person, so I'm not touching it. And so, but in this case, it just, felt like worth it in that moment to like do that labor with that person. And so had to have someone on the outside see that and then just be like, Hey, that was, that was extra.
And so here's a little bit of like compensation, something, you know, like, and I think, you know, in those moments, it's like, whether they had sent me any money at all, them just pointing it out.
Becky Mollenkamp (19:40.878)
or something. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (19:53.934)
Even though, right, even the recognition would have gone a long way or $5. mean, the $50 is great. It was more about the gesture and the acknowledgement.
Taina Brown she/hers (19:58.23)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or even if they had said, hey, that was extra emotional labor, is there like, is there a nonprofit or an organization that I can contribute to in your name? you know, like even that would have been like, again, it's not about like the actual money. It's about the intent behind the whether it's money or just
Becky Mollenkamp (20:20.91)
I'm here.
Taina Brown she/hers (20:26.919)
a recognition or validation or something that really matters.
Becky Mollenkamp (20:29.614)
Can I ask you a question about that? That I think could be something that sits in the mind of, particularly in this, I'm going to guess it was a white person that did that or no? Maybe I'm wrong. Oh, it wasn't. Oh, interesting. OK, maybe that also then removes the dynamic that I think can happen. Because I'm curious what you think about if, as a white person who sees that happening, right, and it can acknowledge the extra labor, I think.
Taina Brown she/hers (20:38.883)
No.
Becky Mollenkamp (20:54.542)
we might even want to acknowledge it, and maybe we do acknowledge it, but that extra step of then stepping in to say, I'm sending you something, where's that line? Because I think this can come up for white women, is where's the line between that being great and this recognition, the validation, the seeing versus white saviorism of, oh, I'm going to come in and I'm going to rescue you, or I'm going to provide you with this money. You know what I mean? I think that can be hard for.
Taina Brown she/hers (21:02.254)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (21:18.702)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (21:23.854)
for white folks in particular when it's a dynamic like that. Like if it's a white person with another white person, totally feels different, right? But if it's a white person with either a black woman or another person of color where you're like, do I do that? Do I say something? Do I do something? Or am I now sort of like centering myself in this? Or am I now like showing up as the savior? What kind of advice do you give for people who are seeing that? Because I hear that story and I'm like, I love that. And I want to do more of that. I want to be more mindful of it. I also.
Taina Brown she/hers (21:32.942)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (21:41.58)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (21:47.726)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (21:52.598)
wouldn't want someone to then turn around and presume, are you assuming I need money? Or are you trying to show up and say that you're like caring, you know, you're tending to my need, you're caring for me, like you're the savior here. I can hear that, some of that. And so curious what your thoughts are on navigating that.
Taina Brown she/hers (22:04.78)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah, I don't think there's a hard and fast rule. Like I think it's, it changes, it fluctuates based on the nature of your relationship with the person, based on the circumstance itself, right? Based on who else was in the room when it happened. And so I think in that situation, like I think if you are a white person and you're like, I want to do more of that, but I'm not sure if I'm going to be crossing the line. I think that's just a risk you have to take.
Becky Mollenkamp (22:12.77)
I'm sure there's not, but...
Taina Brown she/hers (22:39.746)
Because really, what is crossing the line going to cost you? Exactly, exactly.
Becky Mollenkamp (22:43.094)
Not much, right? At minimum you are. You're gonna get a call in. If you get somebody who calls you in, then what do you do? We've talked about farm repair. Yeah, farm repair. Yeah, I love it.
Taina Brown she/hers (22:49.376)
You just fucking apologize. Yeah. And that's it. And that's it. And then it's over. You know, I think most people who are not white, who will be on the receiving end of something like that, will, if it makes them uncomfortable, they will say something, but also not necessarily hold a grudge. Like I think they will also appreciate the intent, you know? And so I think
Becky Mollenkamp (23:20.916)
of its relationship right to like you're saying
Taina Brown she/hers (23:21.006)
Just like, yeah, some of it is relationship, you know? Yeah, like if it were me and you, and you did something like that, like, I'm not gonna take offense to that, you know? I might tell you to keep your money or donate it to someone else or give it to someone else or whatever, but also, like, I think it's just a risk you have to take. nothing in this kind of work comes without a cost. And you have to...
Becky Mollenkamp (23:31.373)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (23:47.532)
Yeah, for sure.
Taina Brown she/hers (23:50.861)
you have to just swallow that cost.
Becky Mollenkamp (23:53.954)
when people share mutual aid requests and or just share ways that you can compensate them on a regular ish basis. So as an example, feminista Jones, who somebody I learned from all the time on social media, will on occasion just share her I don't know if it's cash app or Venmo. I think it was one of those anyway, it doesn't matter. She shares a way that and just this reminder, hey, if you learn from me, here's a way you can send something to say thanks.
Taina Brown she/hers (23:59.915)
Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (24:20.354)
There's no like, needs to be this amount or I'll be offended. There's no, you know, and I think even a once every once in a while she'll even say something like that. Like, don't care how much, just like, if you want to honor the fact that I'm doing all this labor out here on these streets for you, like here's a way to do it. And I love that because then I feel some invitation to do something. Also the reminder, because I'm going be honest, sometimes I can't see past my own nose like most of us were so.
Taina Brown she/hers (24:22.72)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (24:30.061)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (24:37.943)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (24:43.35)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (24:44.202)
in our own shit that we aren't thinking about other people. And we forget that like, yeah, I am learning from you and that is labor and that does deserve compensation. And so I can do that. So recently she did a whole wonderful video all about one battle after another and analyzing it. And we were, knew we were doing this podcast episode that we just did recently about it. And I wanted to feel more informed beyond my own take. So I watched her video.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:00.61)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (25:10.988)
And I sent her, I don't remember, 25 bucks or something, and just said, thank you for that incredibly informative video. was super helpful, right? It wasn't a lot of money, but it made me feel like, OK, she has provided me with an education that I'm also then going to use. And I did cite her when we talked about the story, just talked about that in that episode. But that feels good to provide some compensation. And so I think there's also that invitation, and this is a reminder myself, because I think we often don't feel comfortable saying,
Taina Brown she/hers (25:13.069)
and
Hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:24.78)
Hmm
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:31.819)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (25:40.206)
If you felt like there was something here, if you got something from this experience, if you're so inclined, you have the resources, here's an easy way to say thanks, to show some gratitude, to compensate me for my labor. Because I think it can feel really, I know for me, it feels really uncomfortable to do that. I felt uncomfortable even after being asked to do it. But then after doing it and actually receiving from a few people, it sounded like it was like, I think a whole total of 30 bucks or something.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:43.563)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:49.81)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:07.827)
Yeah, it's not gonna make you rich.
Becky Mollenkamp (26:10.094)
But I was like, you know, it made me, even though I would have and have done that exact work for free and will continue to, I don't know. There's just something about, like you said, I think it's that being seen. then again, even just like you said, just her calling it out and her naming there, we see that this took labor that went so far. Like that warmed me. I was like, that that's what you don't realize you need it until you get it.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:17.249)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:26.794)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that's what at the core of who we are as human beings, like we all want to be seen. We all want to be we want our experiences to be validated, right? We want someone outside of ourselves to say, yeah, that was real. That happened. Like I saw that. And having people to do that when you least expect it. Right. Because in situations like that, it's like.
Especially with so much of our lives being virtual now, it's like speaking into this big black hole and just engaging with space, you know? Like it's not, it doesn't necessarily, yeah, yeah, there's this sense of detachment. And so having that human connection, those little moments are so important. And so even if you can't ever.
Becky Mollenkamp (27:09.656)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (27:13.59)
It does create some distance, doesn't it?
Taina Brown she/hers (27:29.471)
give people money, but if you notice something about someone online, just... And I think that's, I think honestly, that's one of the reasons why I spend so much time in my fandom community. Because people, you know how people make jokes about drunk girls in the bathroom, cheering each other on all the time? It is like that 24 seven. People are just constantly in each other's DMs, just being like...
Becky Mollenkamp (27:43.694)
Mmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (27:56.779)
Oh my God, that was amazing. Or did you see that? Or oh my gosh, that fake ruined me. It's just a constant just love fest of just people just recognizing each other 24 seven. And there's so much validation that obviously there's some bullshit too. There's like some really super MAGA conservative people in fandom that.
Becky Mollenkamp (27:58.958)
Becky Mollenkamp (28:09.166)
Hmm
Becky Mollenkamp (28:19.508)
Ew. Ew.
Taina Brown she/hers (28:21.235)
Yeah, that show up every now and again and then we all just kind of collectively be like boo hiss. But in general, generally speaking, it's that human connection that is often so missing online. And so why would I leave that space?
Becky Mollenkamp (28:28.951)
See your way out.
Becky Mollenkamp (28:39.278)
right? It's fantastic. Well, it's funny how often it takes us being drunk in so many ways in our life. It's like the same. And the equivalent with men, I often see with that is when they get drunk, they start, I love you, man. I love you, right? Like it's they finally have that permission to actually say like the tenderness that they don't always feel they're allowed to have with their male friends. So it's always it's so interesting with women. It's like this exaggerated, like how amazing you are, because I think we're so we're so
Taina Brown she/hers (28:45.033)
with your defenses lowered.
Taina Brown she/hers (28:51.115)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (29:03.232)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (29:05.87)
conditioned into being competitive and individualistic and all that. This all makes me think too, I never gave you the update about yesterday. I had a call with a support husband and we were both like, what is that gonna be? And you're like, are you gonna be okay? I mean, is this safe? I'm like, first of all.
Taina Brown she/hers (29:07.508)
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (29:16.894)
That's right
was like, do you feel safe? Like, I know it's virtual, but still.
Becky Mollenkamp (29:23.936)
It's online. It was a coffee chat, which rarely get booked unless I give someone. mean, they're there for people. You can go if you'd like. BeckyMollincamp.com slash call. And there's a place where you can book a coffee chat with me. But people rarely do that unless I share the link or I know them. And we've said, like, hey, let's have a coffee chat. So this was a complete stranger and a man, which is unusual in my world. I don't usually meet with a lot of men. I do have a few male clients, so I'm not opposed to it. But it's not something that happens a lot. And then the like little form, he mentioned he was a support husband. you were and I was.
Like supportive, no, but supportive, was like, I don't know what this means, right? So we were both kind of intrigued what's the call gonna be. And I don't wanna give away a lot of personal details because I do believe he and his wife might listen to this podcast. And if you do, hi, and I'm not gonna say your names and I'm not gonna give specifics, it'll give you away. But I do wanna mention a little bit about the experience because it ended up being beautiful. So I'll just leave there. It was wonderful experience. We actually went a little long on the call. It supposed to be like 25 minutes. I think we went 40 because I really wanted to give him time because it turns out, first of all, white guy, sis hat.
married to a woman, walks, the first thing on the call was first, before we start, I just want to check my privilege. And he named all of his privileges. And I was like, wait, I'm sorry, what's happening here? A white, white, white man who's showing up and first off without any prompting, acknowledging the privileges. I was like, this is amazing. Like it was so refreshing because it's not an experience, honestly, that I think I've ever had. I don't know that I can ever name an experience where I've had a
Taina Brown she/hers (30:34.676)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (30:49.577)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (30:52.716)
white Cishet man show up unprompted and want to acknowledge his privilege. I was like, okay, this is exciting. Like I was already, I'm all in. I don't care what's happening on this call. This is refreshing. And then tells me a little bit about himself and that ultimately what's happening is his wife is an author. She's writing a romance book. It's being published by a traditional publisher, you know, and wanting to figure out how can he support her as she's feeling all this anxiety about her book coming out soon.
Taina Brown she/hers (31:20.262)
Hmm
Becky Mollenkamp (31:21.422)
and wanting it to be as good as it can be, but also like, you know, it's a lot and feeling all of the work and all of that and just sort of like, how do I, what are things I might be overlooking? What could I be doing? This book kind of has this feminist feeling to it. And I know you're a feminist and she likes you. And so I just wanted to reach out and talk to you. I was like, okay, so you're reaching out just because you want to support your wife. And I'm asking, I was like, how much
Taina Brown she/hers (31:25.959)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (31:46.37)
Does she know? he's like, well, she knows. She's giving. He kept talking about consent. She's she's consented to me doing this. She's consented to me doing this. I haven't received her consent for this, so I can't say yes or no to that. Like, it was just very interesting. Like, I think she had given him consent to reach out to certain people or certain kinds of people and have certain kinds of conversations, request certain kinds of help. And then other things hadn't. And he would have to run that by her. And we just had we had a lovely conversation where we talked about.
Taina Brown she/hers (32:01.761)
Hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (32:15.714)
know, sort of brainstorm some ideas around things that might be good, might not be good, ways that he might be able to support her. I mean, he he's not in the publishing industry. The man's like a nurse and like has no like this is all just doing because he wants to like he and the way this man was pumping up his wife. Do I think this book is going to be a bestseller? Hell, yeah. Do I think this is this book has a potential to be like the greatest thing ever? Like, hell, yeah. Like he is pumped for this woman.
Taina Brown she/hers (32:26.77)
Yeah
Taina Brown she/hers (32:41.799)
He's a support husband.
Becky Mollenkamp (32:43.5)
He is a thief, like it's a title I gave myself. like, well, you've earned it, sir, because you are a support husband. So anyway, if any straight men, straight, says, meant sis Hetman, listen to this, like he's doing it. There are, I, the number of men. I was like, I don't know who you are. I don't know where you got this from, but you are, and I don't know if it's.
Taina Brown she/hers (32:56.179)
Yeah, that's part of the model. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (33:04.392)
You
Becky Mollenkamp (33:05.964)
You know, she helped him get there. have no idea. But I was just like, you are amazing. And he was like, and I'm a feminist. He's like, but then like he even knew, I don't know if I can give myself that title. But like, like, well, we need more of you. So this is great. So all that to share, like it was a really wonderful experience. And there are also like our partners are out there. The potential like it was just that reminder that that's right. Partnership can and should look like that.
for your partner is your biggest fan. They are pumping you up. They are out there figuring out how to do what they can for you and all of that. And we don't have to excuse men or give them these passes of like, well, they never learned how blah, blah, He's living proof that you can figure it out. If you want to, you can figure it out. Because this guy did, so y'all can. Like, anyways, was a really, and it was just such a nice experience for me, which is what I kept telling him, because he's like, I want to be, I want to honor your time. Like, and I was like,
Taina Brown she/hers (33:33.831)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (33:43.207)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (33:48.176)
It can happen. Yeah. If he wanted to, he would. If he wanted to, he would. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (34:02.028)
We can go, have a little more time and I'm like, this is, whenever I get to have an interaction with a man like that, and I do have, again, never anybody who like named the privilege right away, but I've had interactions with men who do get it and who are really trying and who are really showing up in a great way. And I savor those moments with Cishet men like that because they're so rare for me that when I have them, it really feeds, like it heals, it feels healing because I've had so many, think all of us.
Taina Brown she/hers (34:18.268)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (34:22.918)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (34:27.473)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (34:29.728)
I don't know a woman or a non-cis het male who has not had innumerable, innumerable interactions with cis het men that are horrible. Like we just can name them so many. So it's nice to have that healing moment of like, that's right. There are some really good cis het men out there and it's possible. So also I don't have to listen to their bullshit where it's not because it is. So yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (34:41.991)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (34:51.451)
Yep.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Melo had a different experience yesterday with a man and it wasn't even personal. Like she was just like watching House Hunters and she was like, I got it. I had to shut it off because I was getting triggered. But it was like this family, they were moving to Spain and the wife is like a therapist. And if you know anything about Europe, you know.
Becky Mollenkamp (35:02.86)
no.
Taina Brown she/hers (35:17.576)
Housing in general like a smaller than in the US like the bedrooms are smaller the bathrooms are smaller in general The spaces are just smaller They don't have a lot of open concepts and if you want something with more than like two bedrooms, it's gonna be super expensive and so I had two little boys Excuse me moving to Spain and she's a therapist so she was like we need a third bedroom So I can have privacy when I talk to my clients
Becky Mollenkamp (35:24.194)
And they
Taina Brown she/hers (35:45.411)
And the husband kept insisting that that didn't line up with what his vision for what their life in Spain looked like and that she could work from the kitchen table with her clients, with two small children.
Becky Mollenkamp (35:56.29)
with their clients. With them home?
Becky Mollenkamp (36:02.344)
yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (36:02.437)
And of course she gave in. Like every time we watch House Hunters International, especially the international one, we're always like, how long before she gives in to her husband or her partner or whatever and to what he wants? And it's like 98 % of the time the woman gives in. And of course she gave in and was like, you know, I'll work from the kitchen table, whatever. Yeah, yeah. And so it's just like.
Becky Mollenkamp (36:19.758)
I'll make it work. I'll make it work. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (36:28.551)
So fucking selfish. So fucking, like, just, and obviously, look, I get it. That's fucking House Hunters International. We don't know those people. Some of that could have been scripted, you know, like reality TV is not real. And so.
Becky Mollenkamp (36:41.538)
Yeah, but who wants to show up that way as the woman in the script? I'd be like, no thanks.
Taina Brown she/hers (36:46.279)
Yeah, exactly. the, the rea- also the reality is that like shit like that does happen. Like it does happen. Like it triggered her because she's encountered men like that before who have been so incredibly selfish that someone else's needs are completely disregarded. Right? So it's just-
Becky Mollenkamp (36:52.492)
I-
Becky Mollenkamp (37:07.47)
Well, again, if Renee Good, and that is just a recent example, and I know she's a white woman, but it is a recent example that sits so firmly in my mind because of the the piece of that encounter. Obviously, her being murdered is a big part of the encounter that I honor. But the piece of that, think that just struck so many women and like we felt it in our bones was after he kills or he says fucking bitch. And I just think that is that kind of man that's just like there is contempt.
There is hatred. There is like, what I say and if you don't, I hate you. And it makes me think of that man of like, just the presumption that you will do what you're obviously you're gonna give into. Maybe we're gonna go back and forth and maybe I even find that kind of sexy or fun, right? Like that bullshit happens, but you will ultimately give into me. And if you don't fucking bitch, right? Like that, I just think we all.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:36.642)
Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:43.834)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:49.531)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:54.053)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (38:00.709)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (38:03.358)
On a day to day and count like we encounter those people either personally and explicitly, but I also think as women and non binary folks, we feel it like every interaction with men until you have any proof otherwise. And boy, it takes a lot of proof to actually feel real proof. I don't know that Cis het men understand.
Taina Brown she/hers (38:15.447)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (38:23.032)
Yes. Yes.
And that proof can be disregarded at any moment.
Becky Mollenkamp (38:30.104)
Absolutely. And I don't think Cisept men really understand that every interaction they're having with almost every woman and non-binary person, that is what we're feeling in our bones. Are you really just thinking fucking bitch? Right? Like, yep.
Taina Brown she/hers (38:39.11)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (38:44.142)
Regardless of the relationship, you could know someone for 15 years and still feel that and still be like, this the moment when the rug gets pulled out from under me?
Becky Mollenkamp (38:49.806)
Absolutely.
Becky Mollenkamp (38:53.634)
Yep, because we've had that, we know it, we feel it, we've seen it, we've encountered it from our earliest days until we die. It is always there. And whether it is spoken or not, we are waiting for it. So whether you're the guy at the pump next to me at the gas station, or you're my partner of, like you said, for 15 years, there's always some little piece of you that is sitting there going like, is this, is, is,
Taina Brown she/hers (38:56.934)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (39:01.882)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (39:18.892)
Is that what's really happening? Is there underlying in there? Is this going to be the moment you finally let it out? Fucking bitch, right? Like I know it's like you just like it's sitting in there. You have access to it and I know that you similarly, I'm sure as a black person feel the same thing about white people.
Taina Brown she/hers (39:20.57)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (39:30.116)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, that's what I was going to say. was like, it's women to men, it's black women to white women, it's black people to white people, it's non-binary people to, you know, male, female gendered people, like, anytime. And it's not about trust, right? It's not about the trust in the relationship. It's like you said, it's always there because it's the air that we breathe. Like, it's something that we all have to contend with every single day. And so because we have to contend with it every single day,
Becky Mollenkamp (39:41.826)
So.
Taina Brown she/hers (40:02.743)
It's a fight every single day to not give into that temptation to be like fucking bitch or fucking, you know, gay slur or, you know, whatever the case may be. so, like, I have to catch myself sometimes and be like, why am I thinking that? because I've seen too much fucking TV and I've heard too many actors say that shit or, you know, I've read too many things where someone said it.
Becky Mollenkamp (40:14.621)
Exactly.
Becky Mollenkamp (40:28.418)
heard it growing up, I, whatever,
Taina Brown she/hers (40:29.547)
Yeah, or I heard it growing up and I have to be like, no, that's not how you respond to people. Like, you can be angry, but you can't call someone a slur, you know?
Becky Mollenkamp (40:35.694)
The thing is, yeah.
And the scariest thing is when people can't, again, that's where that like checking that privilege when you walk in the room, it's the, when it's unacknowledged, it's the, don't see color people or I've never said a slur in my life or I would never think such a thing or I would never, what these people, that kind of a, the inability to confront and check in yourself that it exists, you may not like it. You may be repulsed by it.
Taina Brown she/hers (40:49.923)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:02.831)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (41:05.323)
But it's in all of us, right? Whatever your privilege is, you have that shit in you. And if you aren't able to acknowledge that and to check that privilege, to acknowledge that, yeah, I am racist, I may not act racist, I may not do anything intentionally racist, but I know I am as a white-bodied person in America. am, racism exists inside me. It's in there, it's lurking, right? And I have to be watching for it all the time.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:06.713)
Yes. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:29.252)
You
Taina Brown she/hers (41:32.726)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (41:33.868)
And to pretend that I don't is it's disingenuous. And that's the thing that creates the real threat to someone else. Right. For me, a man who can acknowledge, yeah, I've thought some bad shit about women before. Right. And like, I'm working on that constantly. And that is not who I want to be. It's not how I want to show up. I do everything I can. I would rather that than the man who says, I've never I would never hurt a woman. I've never thought. Yeah, I've never thought. You're scary to me. That guy is the scary guy. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:39.896)
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:55.396)
I would never do that. I would never say it. Yeah, that's dishonest. It's dishonest. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's why checking your privilege when you walk into a space, when you're able to acknowledge and be like, okay, in this space, where do I have privilege? That's the first step to preventing that from happening, to preventing you from being like fucking bitch when you don't get your way.
or fucking, you know, transler when someone has an attitude with you. Yeah, whatever your stereotypes are, like, yeah, yeah. Like you have to start there. You have to start by acknowledging where your privilege lies.
Becky Mollenkamp (42:28.952)
whatever your stereotypes are, whether it's a slur or a stereotype or whatever, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (42:41.602)
which is such a great reminder, because I don't always do that myself. And I think often it's because the more, if you have your own marginalized identities, it's easy that we hold onto those and think, like I enter the space thinking about my marginalization often and not honoring that there's also this privilege in the room with me. And like just thinking about that call yesterday where I had like, there was like,
Taina Brown she/hers (42:44.289)
Me either.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:52.779)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:56.76)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (43:00.206)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (43:04.142)
30 or 40 beautiful souls on this call that were like, and it was such a diverse room. had men, we had women, we had non-binary folks, we had black folks, white folks, Asian folks, Hispanic folks, we had older people, we had younger people. Like it was just a beautifully diverse room. And it would have taken me nothing to, you know, because I was setting the container and, you know, taking a moment and have everybody grounding themselves in the fact that this same group of people will never be in a room just in the same way. It would have been so easy for me then to honor like,
Taina Brown she/hers (43:28.835)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (43:33.966)
I want to honor, like, also acknowledge the privileges I'm bringing into the space and ask others to do the same. Because if we're all thinking it as we're going in, how does that change the dynamic and create more spaciousness for us all to feel just a little more free that, that's right, everyone here has taken that moment to think about what privileges they're bringing in the room. And so it's a great reminder for me for the next call. And I'm going to make a note of it so that I do it because it takes no time, right, Taina? It takes no time for us to do that. And it makes a huge
Taina Brown she/hers (43:37.921)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (43:43.747)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (43:52.631)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (43:59.061)
Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (44:01.23)
having been now on the receiving end of that with this white man, this white man in the room and knowing what that did to my nervous system, why wouldn't I want to give that same gift to other spaces I'm in? Yeah, love it.
Taina Brown she/hers (44:08.675)
Mmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (44:12.171)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, good call, good call.
Becky Mollenkamp (44:19.502)
Yeah, well, thank you because yeah, it's easy for me to be like, I love when he did it and not be like, but then at the same time.
Taina Brown she/hers (44:26.957)
And then like not map it onto yourself. yeah, yeah. We do, yeah, it's very easy to do that.
Becky Mollenkamp (44:29.78)
Yeah, which we do, don't we? mean, we do that all the
In the same way, going back to the beginning of this with the mutual aid, in the same way, it's really easy for me to be like, God, it really great when they acknowledged my labor and how I mean, I am doing that, but I could do it a whole lot more. I could be acknowledging other people's labor again. It doesn't have to look like money every time. Just like you said, just be saying, I see you. I see what you're doing. So I'm going to end the call, Taina, by saying, I see you because you are doing amazing labor. We do the coaches circle together.
Taina Brown she/hers (44:48.534)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (44:52.066)
Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (45:00.55)
And you are so great. Like you're the one who shows up at our calls with the agenda that you've got ready to go and making sure that the notes are being taken well, because details are not my favorite thing. And you do such a great job with that. Well, but you do well. That makes it even better that you're showing up and doing that. So like, thank you for that. And, you know, acknowledging that I know you've had a flare up and you're you have I know you have some anxiety around doctor's appointments. You have that coming up. And here you are showing up.
Taina Brown she/hers (45:10.594)
They're not mine either, but...
Hahaha
Becky Mollenkamp (45:27.992)
to do this call and have a great conversation and like give yourself to this experience. So thank you. I appreciate you and your lead.
Taina Brown she/hers (45:33.45)
You're Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate your labor too. You've had your husband and your kid at home for the past two days. And I know that's, while necessary in some ways, also disruptive. so, yeah. I mean, what kids didn't like staying home from school?
Becky Mollenkamp (45:37.954)
I think we should do it.
Becky Mollenkamp (45:46.958)
For me, they love it. I'm like, and then you guilty. Yeah, then I get like the next thing that happens is my guilt for being like, you guys are so excited. I don't. I am because I don't want you to do that because like, I don't know. It's fine. Thank you. How about that? Thank you. All right. Well, this we didn't know what we going to do. We were fully flying by the seat of our pants more than usual. And I think it was a really great conversation. And I don't know why I wouldn't.
Taina Brown she/hers (45:56.61)
Stop deflecting. You're deflecting.
Taina Brown she/hers (46:14.53)
I think so too.
Becky Mollenkamp (46:15.854)
Why did I think it wouldn't be? This is why we started the podcast or, you know, why are we down the first place? I like, I just want to have more conversations with you talking again about that. Like, where do you put? don't have a bucket to put you in. Like, need a bucket to put Tainan so can see you again. Yeah, I realize I can't have a podcast with every person I meet that's awesome, though. So that's why I'm like, got to find other ways that I can have conversations with multiple people. But of course, we are going have a good conversation. So have a wonderful, not wonderful.
Taina Brown she/hers (46:19.262)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Let's just start a podcast then.
Taina Brown she/hers (46:38.698)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (46:43.586)
but have a safe and hopefully not too triggering a doctor's appointment and care for yourself today. I will see you guys next week.
Taina Brown she/hers (46:49.494)
Thank you. Thank you.