Ep 33: The Forever Folder — Recording Voice Notes For Your Kids

What if the best gift you gave your kids wasn't a memory, but your own voice? Blake Fly, dad to Koa and Summer (with a third on the way), joins Tony Cooper to talk about Dads Making History, the group he started where fathers record monthly audio and video messages for their kids to hear someday. Blake shares how the practice began during the pandemic, why "donut dates" became a normalizing ritual for the group, how a lost hard drive taught him about the fragility of memory, and how becoming a dad expanded his emotional range in ways he never expected. Tony and Blake dig into presence, legacy, and what it means to really show up for your kids.

• The "Forever Folder" is a monthly audio or video message dads record for their kids, meant to be a presencing practice for the dad as much as a gift for the child.
• Less is more: a good message is often just two to three minutes, a small, specific moment rather than a sweeping life lesson.
• Small rituals normalize across a community fast. One dad's "donut date" habit inspired another dad to start his own recurring one-on-one time with his daughter.
• One-on-one time with a kid (a donut date, coaching a sport, a standing weekly outing) gives a spouse real relief and builds a distinct bond.
• Becoming a parent can expand emotional range far beyond what a "sunshine only" upbringing prepared someone for, including grief, like a miscarriage before a first child.
• Presence is the real antidote to time passing unnoticed. Capturing a moment, even a mundane one like potty training, makes it retrievable later.
• What we intentionally leave behind (and take forward) from our own parents shapes how we father, whether that's constant positivity, a short temper, or building things with your hands.
• A voice message might never be listened to, and that's okay. The value is in the ritual of recording it, not guaranteed impact on the recipient.

If you enjoyed The Dad Manual, leave us a rating on your podcast app! If you loved it, share this episode with a Dad! Send your questions to [e-mail]. Connect with Tony Cooper: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thetonycooper

00:00 Cold open
00:29 Meet Blake Fly
01:23 Blake's speaking and coaching work
03:00 Becoming a dad in 2020
04:00 What is the Forever Folder
05:00 Choosing what to record each month
07:54 Dads Making History group
08:05 The donut date ripple effect
10:19 One-on-one time and giving mom a break
12:00 Being the youngest of three
14:04 Foresight that everything is temporary
16:04 A voicemail from aging parents
17:13 Documenting firsts, lasts, and the messy middle
18:23 Counting laps, counting years
21:09 Losing four years of photos and video
23:11 Is this really for the kids or for you
25:00 The realization that changed his approach
27:14 How coaching shapes his fathering
29:17 A grade 8 yearbook prediction
30:52 His mom's signs and rituals
34:01 What he's leaving behind from his parents
37:12 Becoming a dad kicked his ass
38:00 The miscarriage before Koa
40:09 Expanding emotional range
42:22 Preparing for baby number three
44:01 Closing thoughts

Creators and Guests

Host

Tony Cooper

Tony Cooper is the founder of Playing the Game of Business, a business coach, father, and podcast host.

What is The Dad Manual?

The Dad Manual is a fatherhood podcast hosted by Tony Cooper, featuring honest conversations with dads about the real, unfiltered journey of parenthood. This parenting podcast for dads explores everything from the excitement of being a first time dad to navigating the teenage years. As one of the best podcasts for expecting dads and experienced fathers alike, we dive deep into what it actually means to be a modern dad—the struggles, the growth, the mistakes, and the moments that change you forever. Whether you're looking for a new dad podcast or seasoned parenting wisdom, this family podcast delivers the honest guidance you won't find in books.

Tony Cooper 00:00
You're learning to walk right now. And it's kind of wild how we pretty much had to baby proof our whole house, because if you make one little wobble, it could be dangerous. When dad came home for dinner, it was very leave it to be. We were like, your father's home.
Blake Fly 00:12
Let's go greet him. I always have had this foresight of this whole thing is temporary. This whole, am I the only one who sees this?
Tony Cooper 00:29
Hi, I'm Tony Cooper. This is the Dad Manual Podcast, and I'm here today with one of my favorite dads. You are Koa and Summer's dad. Will you please introduce yourself?
Blake Fly 00:42
My name is Blake Fly. I'm a great dad, and I have some wisdom to share.
Tony Cooper 00:47
Yeah, so lots of cool stuff for us to talk about. Blake, I want to hear about your kids, but what's intriguing me about our conversation is that you and I do somewhat similar things for a living. People pay us to sort of motivate them, coach them, inspire them, and we both have taken our fathering experience seriously enough that we wanted to really be in relationship with other fathers and impact them in a particular way. So I want to start there. Will you start just explaining the work you do from your speaking and coaching part of your business?
Blake Fly 01:23
Yeah. If people were to sort of follow me around a month, a lot of my world is as a professional speaker. And so whether that's virtual or in person, I'm traveling around presenting to teams, companies, organizations, schools. And really, those presentations always revolve around one main thing, which is: what are some creative ways to connect with the humans in our life, people that we work with, people that we're in school with, experiences with? At the end of the day, people are kind of the most powerful part of life.
Blake Fly 01:52
So what if we just added a touch more intention to how we're doing the peopling thing on a daily basis? And then in my coaching world, sometimes that means I'm having conversations with leaders around those themes. Other times it's helping people remain accountable to accomplish some of their goals, including myself, like building these cohorts of people to get important work done in their business. And then lastly, it's working with a community of dads where we're kind of just a crew of dudes trying to figure out dad life as we go.
Blake Fly 02:23
And ideally we are creating some moments and meaningful experiences and capturing it using technology so that when we're 88, in rocking chairs or with bionic limbs, we can go back to those things and share it with our children.
Tony Cooper 02:55
Yeah, I love that. It's easy, especially when you have kids early on, it's a lot of survival mode, so you're not even thinking about relics or things you want to leave behind. Just how do I get through this moment and what's about to come next. And I really do love that you've dug into legacy. And my interpretation of it is not so much legacy, where people talk about what's the impact or difference I'm making in the world, but it's simply that theme that you started with in your public speaking, it's really about connection and human connection. In the dad project, there's that lasting connection that gets created by leaving a trail or remnants of our thoughts, our ideas. So tell me more about that.
Blake Fly 03:32
Yeah, I mean, when I became a dad, that was in 2020, so it was peak pandemic lockdown, all that jazz. And I was like, whoa, there's a lot of macro changes while there's some household changes. And I've always been a really sentimental dude, so that's a useful piece of context. I've always been that guy. Like graduating high school, I was going, wait, we're not going to be at the same lockers tomorrow. Oh my gosh. That was always kind of my wiring.
Blake Fly 03:47
But when I became a dad, I wanted to create some sort of structure or a forcing function that would help me presence myself to the journey. Knowing that word on the street was like, it was going to be foggy and wild and you're not even going to know your name, brother. Good luck. So once a month, I gathered on Zoom with a few dad friends and we recorded video messages or audio messages into our phone speaking directly to our kids about what was happening in this sort of month of their life or our life. And we call it Forever Folder.
Blake Fly 04:22
And we keep populating the Forever Folder month after month. I mean, you could technically give it to your kid whenever, but the main goal is when I die, the Forever Folder is a leave-behind for my kids. And it's like an accountability group of other dads to hopefully do the same. But the catch is it's not so much a gift for our kids, it's a presencing practice for us as dads.
Tony Cooper 04:45
What's the focus then? So it could be a lot of things. It could be, this is the story of your life, kid. It could be, this is just my thoughts. Could be, this is wisdom I'm imparting. Is there any particular focus that you and the other dads land on?
Blake Fly 05:00
I mean, it's a massively daunting task to be like, hey, just make a quick audio so that when you're dead, your kid can listen to it. That's a pretty wild task. So the key piece is less is more. My role is, hey, let's bring this down. Let's just bring this down. It's like, let's just say a thing instead of not say a thing so that our kid can hear it someday from us. And so usually my role is to facilitate that brainstorming and get that top of mind for the dads.
Blake Fly 05:21
And so some examples might be, okay, we're going to take five minutes, scroll through the photos on your phone from the last few weeks and just jot down some moments that strike you or stand out or that you thought, yeah, that one I want to recall. So that's an approach. Another one might be, what is something that you are struggling with right now in dad life? Or something that's just so cool right now, and it's sort of a fleeting season, and then speak to that. But a typical video or a voice note might just be, what is a moment or a memory from the last few weeks that you think would be neat to just capture for you and for your child.
Blake Fly 05:58
And an example might be, hey, you're learning to walk right now. And it's kind of wild how we pretty much had to baby proof our whole house because if you make one little wobble, it could be dangerous, but a few months from now, that won't be a thing. And you're going to be walking around here. Or it might be, hey, you are starting school in like an hour. And here's what's going on for me as your dad. And I just wanted to tell you my hopes or desires or goals, not for you to achieve, but I'm so excited for you and I want to name that. And you'll hear this someday, perhaps. Or maybe it's a simple thing.
Blake Fly 06:54
Like I remember one time when we were trying to get our little guy to learn how to use the bathroom. I took the weekend approach of, okay, we'll take a weekend and we'll try and figure this thing out. And my wife said, hey, you're way more patient at this stuff than I am. And she's got her skills and I got mine. So it was me and our son for the weekend, and I just kind of followed him around in case he had to go to the bathroom.
Blake Fly 07:18
And I made a recording on audio that weekend of, hey Koa, you know what we're doing right now this weekend? And I just sort of narrated what we were doing that weekend. And now when I listen to it from four years ago, it's so hilarious and funny, like hundreds of skills ago that he's now figured out.
Tony Cooper 07:36
And I'm imagining when you do that in community, certain themes pop up, and that's also what strengthens the community and the bond. And I know you said accountability is a good reason to have community around you, but there's also, it's a way of normalizing experiences. So how does that show up in the group? What do you call the group, by the way?
Blake Fly 07:54
Dads Making History.
Tony Cooper 08:05
Dads Making History. Yeah.
Blake Fly 08:05
Well, for example, one of the calls, I didn't see this coming, but I guess it's not really surprising. But the guys were like, hey, this ritual is cool and all, but I just kind of want to hang out with other dads also. So we would do the ritual, and then we kind of just linger on Zoom a lot of the time and just share some updates of what's up in your world. And one of the dads on one of these calls at the time, his daughter, I think, was maybe three. And he just shared, he's like, hey, I've just kind of been doing something called donut dates. He lives near a donut shop. And so once a week he would go with his daughter to this little donut shop and they'd just have a juice or a snack or a little treat or something. He just said it in 30 seconds. One of the other dads on that call, it just felt revolutionary to him because he had not yet set up some kind of ritual like that.
Blake Fly 08:46
So it was probably three years ago, and now that one other dad, he'd say two or three times a month has gone with his daughter somewhere meaningful and intentional for a daddy daughter date. And this isn't rocket science, but it just sort of came through for another dad because one guy said donut days or whatever he called it. And that was sort of a normalization moment of, at that stage, the dad was mentioning, it was really helpful to his wife to just have a couple hours to catch her breath. And instead of him just filling time, he's like, sweet, I'll make a neat thing in that time when it's just her and I, daddy daughter. And a bunch of guys got real insight from that, including myself, even though it was kind of a throwaway comment for that dad, like, yeah, I do these donut date things.
Tony Cooper 09:35
Anyway, moving on. And the beautiful part about that is it actually kind of is like rocket science from a fathering perspective, meaning it is the thing that really will create the biggest leverage, the biggest impact. And just the fact that it seems like it's a throwaway is even more of a beauty of it. I definitely started daddy daughter days with my daughter when she was 7 or 8 or something like that. And we did it all the way through college, and it's the greatest, it's like that for my daughter. And then coaching my son's little league and baseball, I wound up coaching his baseball through high school. There's something about that, pulling kids apart, having one-on-one connection. Like you say, it's a huge relief to your wife. She's like, okay, there's a moment where I don't have to be mom. What a huge gift. It really delivers on so many levels. There's so many mommy groups and so many ways that they say it takes a village. It's usually all the women. The men don't really come together in any sort of way. So I love that you have that. And of course the dads in the group love it, because why wouldn't we? We want community. We're making it all up, and it's nice that we don't have to do it all ourselves. But men don't typically have that asking-for-help kind of way of going about the world. So it's really wonderful what you've created, Blake.
Blake Fly 11:00
Yeah, thank you very much.
Tony Cooper 11:01
I was struck when you said that you were the sentimental kid, when you're graduating high school. And my son just graduated from college two weeks ago, and we were up there when he finished, and he was deeply sad, emotional and sad and really feeling that loss. But I did not have that experience when I graduated college. It's how he's wired. So I'm just connecting that to you, the sentimental nature that you have and that a lot of your work just focused around human connection. So those themes, where does that come from for you? Where did that become such an important part of what you do in your life?
Blake Fly 11:43
An insight just struck me. I'd never really thought of this. So here goes, real time Blake therapy. So I'm the youngest of three. That was my family of origin, and our family picture when I was growing up, I'm still the youngest of three. And I think one experience that was just constant for me was I would see my older sister and older brother, and we got along great, I loved them a lot, but there was a bit of an age gap, so I'd always sort of be the observer of my big sister, big brother.
Blake Fly 12:12
I would often notice when they were on to the next thing, if my brother was sort of at the next level of a sport that I was nowhere near, or if one of them started high school and then they were no longer going to the same school as me, or if one of them got married. My brother, he got married and he traveled the globe with his wife for years, and I was like, have a good trip. And I was 17 at the time, so I would just see all these kind of departures, meaningful ones, just part of life. But I was the one just kind of hanging out, saying, see you later, and the dock while the cruise ship's heading out to sea. You're like, oh my gosh.
Blake Fly 12:51
And it's sort of like, I don't know your relationship to this, Tony, but let's take a party or something. There's people that want to get out of there early, it's like, let's get out of here. Then there's the people that just really want to linger and get all of it. I'm a linger guy. I love just staying till the end. I hate when someone at a great dinner, for example, is first to get up from the table. I'm like, oh, someone got up from the table, it's over now. I think these were just some of the little breadcrumbs growing up that were in my ethos.
Blake Fly 13:24
But then in school, I would notice, especially end of high school, end of college, people were just so focused on grades, as they should have been, grades, they're important. But I'm like, hey, guys, yes, grades, but this literally ends in like three months, one month, three weeks. This ends in a week. I sort of felt as though I always have had this foresight of, this is temporary. This whole thing is temporary. This whole, am I the only one who sees this? And then at college graduation, literally the era your son is in right this minute, my first career was actually working at the same university that I was a student in. So I stayed there for a few years professionally.
Blake Fly 14:23
And a lot of my friends started to visit or phone me or whatever, and they're like, yo, you're still there, that's amazing, it is so different now, so just take it in, man. It's so cool that you're still there. And to them it was like this surprise. To me, I already knew that. I knew that things were going to shift. I knew that we were in a sweet spot during campus life.
Blake Fly 14:38
And so I've always done my best to sort of capture it, whether that be journaling or photos or videos to myself of, hey, what's up, I'm about to graduate in an hour, and I'm going to go to my last exam, and I hope I don't fail it. I've always been that way. But now I've attempted to purpose it professionally and personally because, frankly, it just kind of organizes my life experience for myself. And I noticed that there's a lot of people that have commented, hey, I'd like to do that too. I just kind of forget, or I get busy. And that's super valid, because none of this stuff is urgent.
Tony Cooper 15:08
Boy, if you want to prove the theory that this is all temporary, become a dad, especially when you're young.
Blake Fly 15:20
Yeah.
Tony Cooper 15:21
And I get how you've taken that from a personal practice to implemented it in your family and then shared it with other dads, because it's such a great reminder. And that's why presence is really the biggest antidote to life passing you by. If you're not paying attention, of course it's going to pass you by. And I love that you're present enough to want to record what you're present to, so that it's something in the future that's there for your kids.
Blake Fly 15:50
It's interesting. My parents are in their late 80s right now, so one set of grandparents lived into their mid-90s. So it's possible that I have them for another five or so years, but I don't know. They've been aging pretty rapidly recently. And my birthday, just a couple months ago, they called me on my birthday and left a message. I wasn't available. And they called, and I usually just delete all my voice messages, but I was like, I think I want to keep this one. It's nothing other than, hey, wishing you a happy birthday. But it's them, it's their voice, it's the way they are together.
Tony Cooper 16:25
So I really connect to the work that you're doing and the legacy that you're leaving for your kids.
Blake Fly 16:43
Yeah, thank you. Yeah, that's the goal. And it's again, very selfish on my part, because I know without accountability, I won't do these things. Like I won't. So I want those structures and those rituals in place with other people, even if it's just one other person, so that it happens. And what you're describing about the voice message from your parents on your birthday, I'm fascinated by the fact that I feel like at the start of a season or at the start of a life, let's say as a dad, we're hyper present to things, whoa, so many firsts. It's easy to document and track the first step, first word. But it's coming and we know it's coming, we're ready. So we document the firsts, and then there's sort of this messy attempt to document the lasts, the end of a lifetime or the end of an era in our life. And we never know when it's coming, especially if it's related to mortality. So who knows if we capture it.
Blake Fly 17:36
But then the middle, we capture the first, we hope to capture the last, then there's this middle, usually like a 60 year run if we're lucky, and we're just kind of middling. So I like the idea of what is sort of this magic in the mundane and in that middle section of life, where especially for dads, hopefully you get the gift of just the mega pressure of you're raising kids and you're watching parents have increased needs. It's kind of crazy.
Blake Fly 18:04
Another thing I really like about the project is one of the exercises I like to do, especially here in the summer in Sacramento, is swim. I've always swam my whole life, but I never swim laps as exercise. And so it's just something now that we moved to where we live in Sacramento, we have a pool, it's fantastic. And so I swim laps and it's a lot. I don't have music or anything like that. So I count laps as a meditation, to know how many I am.
Blake Fly 18:34
And then I started giving myself the exercise to go, okay, for each lap, let's say it's seven, what can I remember about that year of my life? And I'm up to like 20, 30, whatever. And here's the messed up part. There are entire years where I mean, nothing comes to mind.
Blake Fly 18:57
And you kind of go, that's a lot of living. It's a lot of life that goes by in one lap of the pool where I can't really anchor on any one thing. And it's just, obviously lots happened, they happen every day, but I'm not recording it or noticing in any sort of way that it stays with me. And so like what you're talking about, that middle section, it could be a big blur. I remember that trip to Mexico, I remember that birthday or something. But what about the 330 other days of that year?
Tony Cooper 19:24
Right, so how often are you, what's the frequency that you and the group record?
Blake Fly 19:34
Well, the group kind of goes in sort of cohorts. So sometimes we're like, hey, let's do a six month run together. Other times it just sort of remains like a casual WhatsApp conversation. But the goal is like a monthly message and two or three minutes max. That's kind of the lingo, mini monthly message. That's the goal. It's a little thought, a little wisp of an insight. Monthly, and then it just populates over time.
Tony Cooper 20:03
And what you're saying, even about swimming laps and how entire years, there's like not much coming back. I love to think of what are the ways we can sort of hook back into that time of our life.
Blake Fly 20:34
And for me it's usually around like teachers, it's oh, grade three, Mr. Page, got it. As soon as I go back that way, there's sort of these doors into more specificity, but without that kind of prompting it's like, I don't know, there was high school, there was that, and then I had a job. So yeah, I like the exercise of how can we sort of stay sharp and remember these things, but also grace in what gets forgotten.
Blake Fly 20:34
And as an example, I took a lot of pictures during university and I remember I had a Dell desktop computer all through university. And then I moved home after for a summer and I had my computer kind of in the basement at my parents' place. And my dad, he was actually renovating an office space that summer and he got all new computers. So he got rid of all the old ones. And all the old ones were black desktop computers. So one day, just on a trip to a donation center, he just scooped up like the ten black desktop computers. Didn't know one of them was mine. And I didn't label it or anything. So gone. Hard drive, didn't have it backed up, nothing. Just four years of university, photography, videos, all the nonsense, gone.
Tony Cooper 21:38
Wow.
Blake Fly 21:38
And there are days where I get crushed by, oh my gosh, if I could just open those folders and just what would come rushing back. Then there's the next day where I go, okay, well, there's not that I'd want to wish this on anyone, but if all your stuff burned away in a fire, well, that was out of your control. But it's when there's moments that maybe I could have held on to something or could have remembered something or could have cherished it in some way, but we didn't. I feel like sometimes that gets to be a little bit of a head game. I don't know where I went with that and why, but it's tough to remember stuff sometimes.
Tony Cooper 22:15
It is. And the practice of just being present, whatever it is, is really just, as a parent, just the most important aspect of it. And it's not even really about remembering. I mean, I find that it's easy to forget. I think that we were just designed to forget, that's just how it is.
Blake Fly 22:33
And like being there for it. I wonder how much it's actually for you versus them. Because I'm like, if I inherited from my parents, I'm just imagining 50 years, times once a month, times 12. I mean, I doubt I would listen to most of it. I guarantee you that.
Tony Cooper 22:56
Yeah. But it also has a lot to do with the relationship that you have with your kids. And so having that as a touch point, it's like a rainy day, that's my bank that I can go to. And if I'm feeling I miss you, I can just start listening to some things. Be pretty cool.
Blake Fly 23:12
Yeah. And the thing I always thought of when I started this was our daughter, her name is Summer. And I thought, wow, it'd be really cool if maybe Summer, when she's like in her 30s and maybe she's going through a navigation point or a decision making season of life, if there's an audio message or a video message where she finds some comfort or confidence in some of those things that were said or were noted, that was kind of like the vision. Wow, that'd be special.
Blake Fly 23:46
And then, similar to what you're saying, I also had this thought of, or she may never listen to a single one. Or she might be like, cool, dad. It's sort of like when parents like, I kept you these shoes, and now they can be yours, and they're kind of like, wow, thanks. And next day, donation box.
Tony Cooper 24:06
See this right here, right over my shoulder, there's a little bronze baby shoe. That's my baby shoe that my parents had.
Blake Fly 24:15
Maybe it's a thing. When I was a kid, they bronzed it, it's on a piece of marble. I was like, that's cool. There you go, there it is. So once I had that aha moment, not that I felt like this is going to be the most profound gift ever for my children, I never thought that. But once I had the true realization of, they literally might not listen to a single thing that I've done for them, I had peace about it, because again, the whole thing was really, this is for me, this is so that when I'm on a car ride 20 years into the future, I can just hit play on some of these things, and I'm listening to the sweet, tiny little voices of my now adult children, and I'll just be like, wow, I'm super pumped that I have these for me.
Tony Cooper 25:00
Yeah, I mean, it might also be interesting to dole them out. You're like, okay, you know, they become parents, here's the first year of your life, here's all the stuff that was on my mind. And you just give a folder of one year, something along those lines, so it's relevant, that they're like, oh, I'm the age now that my dad was. You know, that could be kind of an interesting thing too, just from making comparisons between them.
Blake Fly 25:28
Well, and it's similar with other relationships too. Let's say, marriage, for example. Sometimes on our dating anniversary for my wife and I, that's in June, we got married in August. But on the dating anniversary, I always kind of get sentimental and stuff. What I'll do is I'll go back through all of my wife's Facebook photos from the year leading up to when we were dating, because that was the year that I was spending hours just looking at pictures of her and being like, we're gonna date. And when you're in that pursuit, courtship mode.
Blake Fly 25:58
And so just going through those photos of the months leading up to dating, it warps me right back there. I realize that sounds kind of creepy, but we did get married.
Tony Cooper 26:14
Not stalking if you get married, is that what you're saying?
Blake Fly 26:15
I guess so. But on the dad front, same thing, if I just go for a walk and listen to a four minute audio of that weekend that I was trying potty training with our son, whoa, it just awakens this part of my dad experience that otherwise I'm just running another Tuesday.
Tony Cooper 26:38
One of the things I'm also curious about is, part of what you do for a living is you're a coach. And so how much do you see your coaching work come in to support you as you think about how you want to be a dad and how you want to father certain situations? And I know your kids are young, they're four and five right now. How much do you think that's already played a role, and how do you see it playing more of a role as they start developing?
Blake Fly 27:14
I mean, just to contextualize it, my coaching world, I wouldn't say it's like pure bred coach, for me it's sort of small business coaching and accountability cohorts and things like that. So just wanted to note that. But I do think it's extremely relevant in the sense that I've come to realize that I do really well when I'm doing things in bursts or seasons, or I'm not a guy that can sort of do the 20 mile march every single day metaphorically. I kind of need the carrots to chase everywhere, whether that be in fitness, in health, in business, and I gotta chase a carrot.
Blake Fly 28:11
So in parenting and in my dad life, I see that that's a thing where, how can I be present to the needs and sort of the inner workings of my kids in terms of, I can already tell our eldest, he's a pretty diligent, studious little dude, more than I was. I wasn't some slacker, but I kind of needed to gamify my world, and he's just pretty self starter. Our daughter, I can already get a sense that she's like kind of a, oh, there goes a unicorn, and we sort of gotta bring her back to the moment. And so I can see myself designing experiences or moments or having key conversations with them based on those things, but hopefully to kind of make it light and fun, for lack of a better term.
Blake Fly 28:44
Like, seasonal. It's like, okay, this is who they are right now, this is what they need right now, and this may be the way that they are for life, or this might be the way that they are for a week, I don't know. So let's just take this kind of one hit at a time here.
Tony Cooper 29:07
Yeah, well, you certainly strike me as a very conscientious dad, someone who really cares and has put a lot into it. So where did that come from for you? Like, when did that start to emerge? Was that something as a kid, your relationship with your dad? Where did your whole idea of fatherhood come from, and where did you start to see yourself as stepping into that?
Blake Fly 29:17
Well, I think I was a weirdo, because in my grade eight yearbook, where it said, what do you want to be when you grow up, I wrote in grade eight, I want to be a husband, a dad, and a Zamboni driver for the Toronto Maple Leafs. I think I told you that the first time you and I met.
Tony Cooper 29:37
I don't know, but that was great, you're like, I've done everything but the Zamboni. Yeah, so I was an outlier in the yearbook, that's for sure.
Tony Cooper 29:46
Why was that so true for you? That idea of family, it seems like it's very much a part of you. Do you remember it emerging?
Blake Fly 30:03
Well, just to quote a wise philosopher, Vin Diesel, in The Fast and the Furious once said that it's all about family. And then the villain in Fast and Furious Five, he's like, it's dangerous when people know your code, because then you become vulnerable, and your code is family, so now I know your weaknesses, said the villain. So anyway, my code is very much like family. I've always been wired that way. But I think, to answer your question, as to maybe why, I'm close with both my parents still, and they're still alive and well, and it's great. But I was really close with my mom, probably because I spent so much time with her, and being the youngest, eventually it was kind of like me and her a lot of the time, and my siblings were off doing their thing.
Blake Fly 30:52
And my mom has always been world class at just keeping up relationships. She's always really diligent with, she'd always be on the phone in the evening calling her friends. She kind of had this sort of, okay, I'll call Melanie, then I'll call Joanne, then I'll call Karen, and she'd sit in the chair in the living room and she'd just touch base with all the key people.
Blake Fly 31:11
And whenever we would come home from things that were, I guess, significant in some way, like maybe it was a big sports game, or if we had a big test or something, in our house that I grew up in, you'd walk in the front door and then you'd sort of see the upstairs with a walkway across into my parents' room. So my mom would make these signs that you would hang down from that floor, so you'd look up and see the sign. So it might be things like, congrats graduate, would be the sign. Or if my dad had a big business thing, it might be like, way to go honey, we're so proud of you.
Blake Fly 31:31
There was a lot of these signs that she'd make, and we'd have to make the signs a lot of the time. She's like, hey, your grandma's coming over, let's make her a sign. Or, oh, your dad did this thing at work and you don't understand it, but it's really special, let's make him a sign. And a lot of times it was like, oh my god, how many signs do we have to freaking make? But I saw a lot of that, and I saw a lot of that, hey, let's acknowledge this moment or this person and let's do it.
Blake Fly 32:11
And plus, she was a teacher, so she was a teacher at my school, so I saw her a lot. And she was a supply teacher, a substitute teacher, so she kind of had the rock star factor of, oh, Mrs. Fly is my teacher today. Yeah, because she was like the music lady. And so I just saw her really focused on making meaningful experiences and the significant times in the calendar. There was pretty much always a concert. So whether it be Christmas time or graduation time, we'd kind of have to rally for music purposes.
Blake Fly 32:35
And the last thing, my dad, they're really different but also super similar. My dad was always a guy that, at the end of a school year, sometimes he'd write a handwritten letter to our teachers just to thank them, but like a letter, not like an end of year card, like, dear Mr. So-and-so. So that kind of stuff. And my parents always volunteered a lot.
Blake Fly 33:01
But again, super distinct, my mom was sort of the bubblegum rainbows vibe, happy go lucky. My dad, super short fuse, you don't want to piss him off, you don't want to cross that guy. But also a classy guy, a gentleman, and kind of had the mouth of a sailor and the sense of humor of one as well. So sometimes he'd say stuff, you're like, whoa, you just said that. But their combination was always super rooted in family, but especially my mom, she was waving that banner hardcore and still does.
Tony Cooper 33:38
Yeah, so it sounds like you brought forth quite a bit of that into you being a parent. What did you intentionally leave behind?
Blake Fly 33:38
Well, with my mom, she was always majorly positive. And something that I left behind is, I think there was a long period where I only knew positive. Whatever happened, I just instantly default to, it's all good. I didn't even have a chance to decide, it just auto lapsed into, what, I just got T-boned and almost died, it's cool, I'm still here. That didn't actually happen, but just as an example.
Blake Fly 34:12
So I would auto leap to positivity in every single experience. And for myself, I guess, you know, it served a purpose, but in relationships, especially in marriage, that became an issue where I was just skipping over real raw things that were important to my wife and in our relationship. And I'm like, what, it's all good.
Blake Fly 34:39
A thing I've been working on consistently to leave behind is not to be full sunshine. It's like, hey, light and dark, high and low, and welcome it all, be present to it all, and still keep the eye on the prize and it will be good, but not skip the mud. So that's a thing on my mom's side. And then on my dad, again, super short temper, short fuse, he was never abusive or anything, but you just didn't want to piss the guy off, you could tell, like, let's keep it tight around dad.
Blake Fly 35:12
And then also, one of his gifts in the world is he can kind of build anything from the ground up. He could find a patch of land and just build the house, wire it, plumb it, make it be. He was a builder in his 20s and he was going to do that as a career, but did a different career. But on the weekends, he'd always build stuff.
Blake Fly 35:34
So every sort of extra moment, my dad was in what I call Bob the Builder mode, because he'd always be renovating or building something around our house or around our cottage, which was cool and inspiring to see. But one thing I've left behind is not renovations. I like those skills, and I'd like to be better at that. But on weekends, dad was building stuff, extra hours, it was building hours. Whereas me, I think I've maybe put a total of 20, 30, 40 hours of building stuff since I've been a dad. And I don't say that to be proud, it's just, building hours for my dad was with us, and we kind of help him around on the job site and stuff. I pretty much am, with our kids or with my wife and our kids, and I'm okay with that, and I'm excited about that, and I'm proud of that. This is a lot of quantity and quality time just being with our kids and being in family mode instead of, I got a bunch of stuff to do, figure it out, I'm going to be doing this because in the week I work and on the weekend I got to do this stuff.
Blake Fly 36:45
So those are some things that add and subtract in terms of moving one generation to the next for me.
Tony Cooper 37:07
Yeah, well for a person who in 8th grade publicly declared, I'm going to be a dad, what was it like when it actually happened? So when Koa was born, do you remember what your experience was like and how that impacted you?
Blake Fly 37:12
Yeah, I know we're moving towards the finale, so I'm about to crack open a whole new can of worms. But I'd say it kicked my ass. Because not that I had expectations, but I'd say it kicked my ass in the sense that you sort of get everything you need when you become a parent. And the pandemic happening, that was already kind of messing with my professional head, the business was taking a hit, and I was not used to that. So I wasn't mentally my sharpest going into parenthood.
Blake Fly 37:52
And also, we had a miscarriage before our first child was born. And the miscarriage, I knew it was going to be impactful, but I didn't expect it to kind of knock me right down. It just totally tanked me and my wife for sure.
Blake Fly 38:00
But I was totally surprised by just how much of a valley a miscarriage put me in. And I went, oh, I think I underestimated the emotional toll of this. So when our son was born, between the pandemic piece, the miscarriage piece, I think I was just carrying some unexpected dark patches. But again, if kids bring you the things that you need, and to what I said moments ago, okay, if I had heavy on the light most of my life, alright, balance it out hard in this season.
Blake Fly 38:26
That being said, I also found parenthood very instinctual. I could feel my instincts. At no point was I like, how do I parent, how to be a dad, oh my gosh. The instincts I could feel kicking in as they needed to. But I just think my emotional range was opening, opening, opening, opening, opening big, in the pregnancy and in the first year of fatherhood. And I was like, whoa, this expansion is visceral. Not comfortable, like, I understand for you, comfortable with staying in the sunshine, staying in the, it's all going to be great.
Tony Cooper 39:11
And there's probably some sort of reservation or resistance to going into that darkness or seeing darkness as bad or something to avoid. So children are the medicine that they give us for our own transformation, our own growth. So yours has been an emotional range, like increasing your emotional range so far?
Blake Fly 39:33
Yeah, big time. And also there isn't that run to daddy when he walks in the door experience I grew up with. As I said about my mom before, when dad came home for dinner, it was very, leave it to be, we're like, your father's home, let's go greet him. That's different in our household. And not good or bad, but it's like, I think I had a lot of the bubble gum version of family life going into it. And there was a few key events right before fatherhood that made me go, oh, it's not all sunshine. And I mean, that is the lesson that I've needed in this lifetime for sure.
Tony Cooper 40:10
Yeah, and you're just a more complete human, that's the expanded, we are here to feel and experience everything that's available. So what a gift that you've gotten. It is one of those difficult things, you're like, yeah, we had to go through some very difficult things in order for me to get the thing that I needed. Wow, okay.
Tony Cooper 40:31
So you've got two kids, four and five, and a third on the way.
Blake Fly 40:42
Yeah, coming soon. At the time of this recording, it's about five months from now, baby will arrive.
Tony Cooper 40:57
So given that you've had this growth, you see yourself now differently, fathering differently, as you're looking forward to welcoming a new life into your family, what do you think is going to be different this time?
Blake Fly 41:18
When our first child was born, and even our second, I was almost overextended on the family side. I hear a lot of men be like, oops, I went all in on my career and I had to backpedal. I was the opposite. I think I almost overextended on, I'll never miss a moment. This is the double edged sword of this moment making, memory making kind of lens on life. But I was so in on, I'm going to be there for all of it, that I think I took my foot off the gas on the professional side. I'm like, I'll figure that out as we go.
Blake Fly 41:55
Whereas this time around, with the next baby on the way, it's going to be different, because I'm excited to sort of go against my own tendencies, meaning I'm going to actively lean in more to the career side of Blake with the arrival of this child, because my sort of center point is family mode. The stretch is, alright, go be in the professional arena also. And when you run your own business, again, it's like a blessing and a curse, you can kind of tweak the settings to serve your own life, but if not mindful of the right settings, you could be like, oop, wrong calculation over there. So with the next baby on the way, there's going to be more of a professional lean than with the arrival of the first two.
Blake Fly 42:22
And confidence, a trust, a faith in, not that I'm going to be gone all the time, but a faith in, we're a unit now, and even our current kids, they get to play a really cool role, to leverage the power of a unit instead of, oh, we're about to become parents, and Emily and I are like, okay, let's figure it out. It's unit mode, family mode now, more than parents just running the hamster wheel as best as possible.
Tony Cooper 42:52
How far apart are Koa and Summer?
Blake Fly 42:59
17 months.
Tony Cooper 42:59
Yeah, okay, so we're 18, same thing, and we're like, it all just happened at once. And I just imagine you go through, I really have no idea what I'm doing, like a deep phase of that until you start kind of like, alright, I mean, I guess nobody does, but I kind of get it. And so I just imagine then if the kid came along five years later, I'd be like, breeze, you have a whole family now, we've got a unit that they're being born into. So I'm really excited for you guys, it's great.
Blake Fly 43:39
Yeah, thank you. It's true, like when they're so back to back, there's a lot of sweetness to just, oh, we're all in the pocket together. And now there's been some space. I'm excited to sort of see my updated version of fatherhood. Plus, I'm the third of three, so I think there's going to be a unique connection with me to this child, just given, like, birth order and such.
Tony Cooper 44:01
Absolutely, man. Thank you so much for having this conversation with me, with sharing all that and being on the podcast. I really appreciate you so much, Blake.
Blake Fly 44:09
Yeah, it's been a blast. Are there any closers, or did we make it through the tunnel of fatherhood?
Tony Cooper 44:14
I think we got, we got to where we got to for sure.
Blake Fly 44:18
I think we got it super good, good and covered, let's do it again. So I'm super happy, I loved our conversation, it was so easy.
Tony Cooper 44:18
And so much things that you've imparted, the sentimentality that you bring to fatherhood is something that's just really heartwarming, and I think a lot of men can really stand to take on more of that.
Blake Fly 44:39
Thank you so much, Tony, this was a lot of fun, and it's great to be surrounded by inspiring dads like you who have been on the track further than me. So hooray for that.
Tony Cooper 44:52
Hooray for that. All right, well, until next, see you later.
Tony Cooper 44:57
I just want to thank you for listening to this episode of the Dad Manual Podcast, and for supporting dads to become the best version of themselves as they strive to bring healing and inspiration to their families. I'm looking to grow a community of fathers who are ready to change the world. But I need your help. It's super valuable to the podcast when you like an episode, when you leave us a rating and subscribe to our YouTube channel, when you follow us on Instagram at The Dad Manual Podcast, and maybe even the most important, when you share the podcast with the dad you love. Also, you can impact what we talk about here. If you've got questions or topics you want me to explore, email them to me at dadmanualpodcastmail.com. I would love to answer your question on our next episode.
Tony Cooper 45:32
And until next time, I'm Tony Cooper, and this is the Dad Manual Podcast.