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Are you ready to be put to work for God's End-Time Army? It is NOW or NEVER! Angelia Ruth, “Angie”, has ministered in over 35 countries in some of the most dangerous places in the world. Author and co-author of over a dozen books, she has led mission teams and college groups over the past 30 years and is recognized for her prison ministry program by the State of Texas. She teaches God has a hilariously exciting life for every believer who will take Him at His Word and follow Him into R-I-S-K. If you have ears for truth and a sincere desire to sell out to God, this podcast is for you.
So tonight we're gonna call it, help. My head is spinning. So if you think this is directed to you, it is. I think we've had a 100% calls this week and we used to have this thing that would happen. People say, cross lines has their own language.
Speaker 1:And I never thought we did. I thought, we talk normal. But I said, what are you not understanding? They said, there's a cross lines expression. Like that person's spinning.
Speaker 1:They said, what is spinning? And so tonight we're gonna talk about what is spinning. This was birth actually from a young man that I took a look at him and thought, if I had a chance, if he would let me help him, what would I say to him? If he would just let me in close enough because a lot of times when people are having this happen, they are, like, doing everything to make you dislike them, everything to keep you anytime someone goes through one of these things, if it's severe. Anytime someone goes through one of these things, if it's severe.
Speaker 1:When you're young, not so much, but when you're older, this is what happened. Tonight, I thought, well, we might as well use the success case, so I'm gonna say that there's gonna be some confessions of someone who came out of head spinning, lost hope, actually lose who they are, don't feel like themselves, their identity goes to pieces. If I use the word they're having a little bit of a depression, it's not a strong enough word. So this can actually develop into something that is very traumatic for everyone, for all of us. So the head spins can be from a bad case of insecurity to some more of the extreme cases of soulishness or it can be because of involvement in mind religions or control or bumping into someone like that, who is a controller or a manipular.
Speaker 1:If this someone has control or manipulation, a lot of times it will put the spin on. Well that's why I like catching y'all young. I mean the sooner the better, because it starts out as ignorance. And so we had this debate today, well it's either ignorance or deception. But we said, what is deception?
Speaker 1:Ignorance? I mean, who goes? Well, I'm deceived because I wanna be deceived. You don't know what you don't know. So we were laughing that in many ways, it's just ignorance left untended to for way too long and it becomes deception.
Speaker 1:And woah, pull you back from deception. You do not want deception to happen to you. So left to itself, that's where it's headed. So you can get away with ignorance for a certain amount of time, but deception sets in and it's really a problem. So people do not need to leave you in your misery.
Speaker 1:They do not need to let you be sitting in your squalor. You must get out of your head spin. I thought about, I'm not gonna really elaborate the dark part because I'm just a little bit tired of it. But I thought, well, but the truth is, it's very simple. It's very simple.
Speaker 1:We're making this way too hard. This simple side of it, I I thought well, I'm not gonna make it dark, we're just gonna talk on just general head spinning and then it will cover all the extremes because it's the same thing that works at every level. Now if there's any disagreement and you see this pulpit rushed and someone takes over, it could happen because we have had some hotly contested debates on points of this. But this is my point of view, it's simple. Maybe perhaps people that go through it, they don't feel the same as me and maybe they never will emotionally feel the same as me.
Speaker 1:Just renounce that emotion and let's just say it's simple. So we're gonna say their signs whether they know it or not, their signs that this is coming on them and this is coming from someone who was set free. You start feeling extremely tired and you try to treat yourself because you're tired. And you go to bed and you feel tired, and you wake up in the morning and you feel tired. And there's a deep weariness of the soul, where once you are alive, excited about the Lord and everything.
Speaker 1:This particular thing, this oppression by the enemy puts a fatigue on you. It drains you of all your emotional strength. You might feel some low grade anger, definitely confusion, That's what causes the spin. You will get into a thing where you'll start blaming other people. You'll be easily offended.
Speaker 1:Your emotions, you wanna know? They're all over the place. I mean, they change worse than a teenage girl. I mean, it is just all over the place. You feel strapped, you're unstable, and you're not yourself.
Speaker 1:And what I would tell you is don't make any decisions during this time period of your life that are major. I mean it is a time that you will not get it right, because you are not hearing the right voices, what is speaking to you is not peaceful, it is not strength. You are in a bad state of mind. So these are signs that they named when they went under the spirit. So in this discussion of saying, hey, this one worked out, the lord just showed us what to do, Let's talk this out of what happened when they went under the spirit.
Speaker 1:You actually have something that guards you to keep you in it. Like this oppression, this thing wants it to be permanent on your life and that's what you're hearing all the time. I'm never gonna feel differently. Like I remember I used to be happy but I can't remember what happy felt like. Like I don't feel happy anymore, I don't feel stable or secure anymore.
Speaker 1:Let me show you there's something guarding that and it's terrible what guards it. It's opposing entities and this is what makes it so difficult to get someone helped. We have other teachings on this, they refer to it as a schizophrenic type state of mind. It's like you're working on both ends. Let me give you for instance and you'll understand what it is.
Speaker 1:You feel insecurity and you feel pride. Those are as opposite as can be, but they are both working in you. And it's almost impossible to reach you because if you reach for the insecurity, what you get is pride. They'll stand up to you. But if you reach for the pride, they'll become weak.
Speaker 1:And it is almost impossible to get past the guards to get to the spinning. These are protection things. They're trying to protect the state of being that you're in. These are protection entities. So, offended and victim.
Speaker 1:Self will and weak dependent. Blame, guilt. Control and wanna quit. Each one of these work in tandem with each other. And so, when you're trying to reach in to a severe case, this is usually what keeps you from being able to get help and it creates this storm or this tornado and that's what makes it difficult.
Speaker 1:And so they have to usually, and I don't like this, unless they're cross liners and they learn to love truth. And they go, I know you're gonna hurt me, I know at some time in my life, I'm not gonna like to hear what you have to say but I trust you. If you can't do that, usually what it takes at this moment is for you to get to the bottom of yourself. It's very painful for everyone to watch for you to hit bottom. I always have this thing of, you have a certain elevator in yourself.
Speaker 1:And I'm always shocked how far people will fall before they look up and I'm like, woah. Again, they'd be a skyscraper if it was the other direction and not down. I mean, some people can take a lot of pain before they can let the pride or something let go of them. I'm like, that went down 4. You know, it's your protocol, it's your how deep are you gonna go?
Speaker 1:I mean, by the time you're digging in trash cans for food, you need to look up, there might be a better life. You might tell yourself, John 10 10 is not working for me, I'm not experienced abundant life right now. Maybe I'm doing something wrong and this ain't all the devil. This is what it takes. And so, if you wanna go the route of just bottoming out, almost everybody has to get to this point where they have this thing where they face it, where they can get this to stop.
Speaker 1:And it does take some strength. Now some of it is just flat, you're young, emotional immaturity and with getting the word into you, you can build yourself up. But if it's how you live your life and it's how you do life and it's what you hide behind, you're setting up a very bad pattern and you've gotta have friends that help you get through it. Especially if you're a very self willed person or a very insecure person, either of those. I mean, I can make a case for both sides.
Speaker 1:I've had people that have caused a royal mess by being controlling. But I've had some people that literally were weak and they caused every bit of the mess that the controller cost. If you'll talk to anybody that works in any type of deliverance ministry, some of them have experienced these things that go together and cause these problems. So here are the lessons learned from success cases of the ministry. And I know the first thing you're asking is, how long did it take for them to come out of it?
Speaker 1:Give me a time. Well, if I give you a time that everyone listening to this will go, okay, we're at month 3. Okay. It took her 40 day. So you're trying to do time.
Speaker 1:If I tell you, oh, it took a year and a half to 2 years. Oh, you're on the floor, it's impossible. There is no time to this. There is no time. Let me just tell you this, every case is different.
Speaker 1:It's how quick you do these steps, we're focused too much on the time. And let me just tell you why it might have taken me a little bit longer than, someone else to help pull someone out of it. It was all new to me. I mean, I have done this all my life, deliverance. This is not deliverance.
Speaker 1:This is not the same thing. This is something totally different. So because it was new to me, just I'm gonna say it. I was slow. I mean, I was trying to feel my way, I was groping in the darkest.
Speaker 1:They say in the book of acts, I was new to this. I was like, they were here and now they're not here. They had a personality and now it's gone. Who has them? I've never watched body snatchers but it has happened.
Speaker 1:They are gone. It was one of these slight cases that I'm sure they built the movie around. So, there are severe cases but I'm gonna give you what I learned. The confessions of someone who has been there, done that, come out of it. You don't know you're deceived.
Speaker 1:What happens sometimes, you get very close to someone who has this on them and you're trying to help them or at least be kind to them. You know, you see yourself as I'm Christian so I'm kind to them and it bounces back on you because you have no understanding or guard up for the fact that there's something very unusual that is taking place in this person's life that's trapped. I'm telling the one who's trying to help the family member, a lot of times, if one goes under, the whole family goes under. If one person, like in a husband and wife, if one goes under, both of them will go under. Rarely, does someone have the strength to reach in and with the power of God, pull them out.
Speaker 1:And what begins to happen, this is the confessions when you don't know you're deceived. They'll start defending why they're doing what they're doing or they'll defend the person they're trapped by to the extreme. They'll say, nothing's wrong with them. This is not a bad relationship. You're looking at them thinking, you don't look too good.
Speaker 1:What you might explore that there might be something going on, but they're not gonna hear it at this point. I mean, they are totally locked in and you want to say, how's this working for you? From the confessions of someone pulling out of you, read their diary is like, number 1, I didn't ask God. I got into this because I didn't take God into consideration, I just assumed. That beautiful word, I assumed.
Speaker 1:Or you can even say, I was just being Christian about it because that's our idea of what we're doing. But there's an absence of discernment on this and it's widespread, that's a disease in itself, it's the lack of discernment. They won't tell you what they're about to say now when you're trying to help them get out. Mainly, you're just getting teeth out of your hands. You're just getting hatchets out of my head, tommy hawks out of your head.
Speaker 1:I mean, you're doing other things during this time that you're getting them to let go of your hair. They're not gonna be telling you this. They won't know it's true until they're out of it. And they're not trying to hurt you. They just are in a lot of pain.
Speaker 1:It's like taking your pet out of a trap. Let me tell you why this is not spoken on. It's not spoken on because it is very personal. Ministries who have gone through this, they will not tell the story because by nature, it is so personal. In fact, I was writing a bible study this morning on how to get out of that personal trap of it.
Speaker 1:Because there are some things God has delivered you from and you've never given a witness of it or bore testimony of it. And the reason is, you would love to tell them your overcoming story is, you can't tell it. It's too personal. Get that personal side out of it. The enemy, he will see to it to make it personal with you so you can't help him out.
Speaker 1:Like the person will make it personal with you. That is part of the way the enemy gets between the person being helped and the person under it, is the person will make it so personal with you. Finally, you just want to give up. I can't help you like you're making this personal. And then, of course, they make up excuses and they blame you.
Speaker 1:These are the thoughts going on in their head when you're trying to help them out. Because while they're under it, it's just this barrage of thoughts and they're just tormented. I mean, you'll see them and it doesn't even look like prayer. They're in deep holding their head, just wringing their hands. They don't know what to do.
Speaker 1:But they're telling themselves, I'm doing everything right and everyone else is doing it wrong. That's what a lot of times they'll start into it. The person that's trapped will if they're self will, they'll be like, I'm right. And they'll plunge right into it. It's the Peter attitude.
Speaker 1:I'm doing it right. Jesus, you're wrong. With all due respect, sir, another thing they'll say is even though I didn't feel like it, this is where they're gonna make a switch and start coming out. If you can get between the sentence 1 and sentence 2, is even though I didn't feel like it, I had to believe that you were telling me the truth. And between sentence 1, where they think they're the only ones right and they get to either the bottom of the elevator or they start learning to love truth, they'll start realizing, I've gotta believe somebody if I'm gonna get out of this.
Speaker 1:Even though my emotions don't bear witness with this, you have no reason to lie to me, so I'm gonna believe that you're telling me the truth. At this point, you need to hand someone else the reins and tell them walk me out of this. Just get me out of this. It's not like me because you have completely gone under the spirit. So this is a list of the confessional.
Speaker 1:What have our free will choices got us into agreement with? This is what you're looking for. What have your free will choices got you into agreement with? It's your agreement with the wrong thing that has opened this door. Have we got into agreement with something that God is not in?
Speaker 1:Are we in agreement with something or someone that has a dark side to them, something demonic? Do they have something that is not surrendered to God? People are getting what they deserve, it's completely fair, but emotionally it's horrendous. Like there's some sort of agreement with something that they deep down knows wrong and their consequences are coming to them. Oh, it's terrible to watch them go through.
Speaker 1:So at some point, the person will take responsibility for their own mistakes and they will take responsibility for their ignorance because truly, we should be able to just us and the Lord pull out. But my mother said about this young man, he's not gonna come out on his own. She took one look at him, she knows. She paid the piper 8 years and she said, there is not a way in the world that young man's coming out of this on his own. That's a horrible prediction from my mother, but she can smell it, she's been through it.
Speaker 1:But at some point, you take responsibility for your ignorance and for your wrong agreement. Because the person trying to help you, they're a second outpouring of God's grace on you. You should be able with you and the Lord to do it. Just you and love truth and you should be able to do it. But the person trying to help you is you've got to get appreciative and say this is a gift from God.
Speaker 1:So you're asking yourself, do I have a soul tie with someone that's heavily deceived? Are they pulling me down? Are they pulling me into sin? Are they pulling me into something? Am I having soulish compassion on them by hating everyone else that's trying to tell me the truth?
Speaker 1:Everyone else is telling me that you're losing it. Is it my own soul? Is it my own heart? What's going on here? Wrong thinking, wrong feelings that do not line up biblically.
Speaker 1:You're dealing on both sides of the soulish issue. Wrong thinking, wrong feelings, and they're not lighting up biblically. Where am I not telling myself the truth? Where am I not hearing truth? Is there an area of my life where I am not hearing the truth?
Speaker 1:So the minute you go into head spin, those are some questions you can work through. And this is from someone that has experienced it and they know this is where the battleground is. This is where became really difficult for them. So that's their voice. From my perspective, I'm gonna give you my voice because I'm gonna tell you, what do I do to start getting them well?
Speaker 1:And even though I'd say that being pulled into it is very much a deal when you care about someone, it can start moving you in it. Or, you know, even these counseling phone conversations that we're having where we're trying to walk people out of it, They can get you emotionally under it. You can feel even sometimes even manipulated by it. I mean, one of you said to me I'm a just say Robbie said it to me. She said, it's amazing.
Speaker 1:These people that call me, they make me responsible for every thought they have in their head. They want me to come up with the truth and tell them what to say. It works until you have a 100 and it works until you realize these 100 are not gonna call you once every day for the next 100 days. They're all gonna call you on the same day because they have thoughts that day. Those thoughts are not making sense.
Speaker 1:You're an expert at it. What should I be thinking right now? It's shocking. And so people can make you and drag you into it because they suddenly make you responsible for their thought life. All in the same day and it doesn't matter that you've got them all around you and you've got urgent in every direction.
Speaker 1:One time, I had the worst thing I can even tell you hit me in a day. Like, I thought I would have lived my life and never have had that happen to me. At that moment, Crosslines was being taken over by a hostile force and and I was like, you gotta be kidding. They had told me stay at home and rest. I didn't know they were telling me to stay home and rest because they were taking over.
Speaker 1:But the spirit of the Lord told me, get up and go. And I took one look at my dad and he was taking his power nap for 10 minutes and he looked at me. I don't think he winked, I wished he had, but he told me, the devil don't ever play fair, does he, Angie? He stacks you. So don't think that the devil's gonna give you a fairness that you're gonna be working on this with everything going smoothly for you.
Speaker 1:He didn't play fair, that's the name of the game. How did Mark say it to me today? Be safe. And if you're not safe, be dangerous. I mean, you've got to play offense with this.
Speaker 1:Okay. So, what do I do to start getting them well? They came out of it when I worked with them and I'm gonna call it r and r and r. So it's gonna be very easy to remember, you'll be like, what did Angie tell me was r and it was an r and it was an r, very simple. The first thing you've gotta know is more than likely, more than likely, because you're gonna be shocked by what I'm gonna tell you.
Speaker 1:The scriptures are not really working for them at this moment. In fact, most of the time, in these severe cases, the devil is using scripture against them and that is where the game is so difficult. And when you're discipling people, that's what bothers you the most because you know they don't know their bible well enough to get out of it. So there has to be a lot of trust here. Let me tell you, on mission training, one thing we used to do on Sedona's mountain is sometimes we would put a toe sack over you in a blindfold at first and then a toe sack and then we'd put a fire and we'd have your partner have to lead you.
Speaker 1:And there were different scenarios we put you through going over cactus and you had to trust your partner. And I'm gonna say, it'll feel about like this. They'll have you on a rope and they'll be pulling you towards fire, towards cactus. It is a trusting the partner. This is where I'm having to tell you, I've done it before.
Speaker 1:But they've got to give trust at this moment because the enemy is using scripture. The scriptures are used against Jesus when he was under temptation. Y'all, think this through. The word of God is under temptation. Jesus is the word of God and he is under temptation.
Speaker 1:And he has been told, turn the stones into bread. He's been told, here, won't you just bow down and you won't have to go through the cross. And then he's told, jump off the temple, here's a promise from God's word. Oh, here's Psalm 91, just jump. You'll be fine.
Speaker 1:And the enemy was using scripture against Jesus. The enemy was using scripture against the son of God. And so people think because I'm hearing scripture, everything is okay. Not in this condition. No.
Speaker 1:It's a first sign you're possessed. Okay. Let me make it theologically better. You're under oppression. Let me just say it nicely.
Speaker 1:Your eyes look possessed. But he's twisting the scripture on you. He is trying to get you to jump. It's gonna look bad on the ministry when you do. Literally, everyone who comes like, if they're very zealous for the Lord, they've succumb to an attack at some point.
Speaker 1:You have people and they're working against suicidal thoughts. And they tell you, when I read the bible, it makes it worse. And they feel so ashamed of this and they're like, I just haven't been reading the bible for a long time. Well, that's because of this situation. When they read the bible, the enemy grabs the scripture and turns it on you just like if you pull a gun on someone and you're not competent with the gun.
Speaker 1:You have just armed the person that you pulled the gun on and the enemy will take it and twist it out of your hands. This person was feeling some confidence because we've been speaking a lot of truth to him and so they decided, oh, after my first session, I'm gonna go home and read the bible. They come back the next morning and their brain matter looks like a pretzel. The enemy has twisted it and when we started hearing how the enemy was twisting the scriptures, guess what our group did? We all start laughing because it's just so obviously the enemy.
Speaker 1:Like he hates the word of God, he hates the scripture, he hates truth, of course, he's gonna turn it on you, of course, he's gonna make you crazy. You're not reading it by faith. You don't have the Lord just really speaking to you and you're hearing it in a pleasant voice. The enemy is screaming in your ear and you're trying to do something quick. The enemy led him to read the bible and led him to all types of verses to get him spinning.
Speaker 1:And when we left, I think he was relieved. He realized, why would this in their first time to have to untwist this? No. This happens every single visit. Do you think I'm talking about you?
Speaker 1:I am because it's happened to everyone. It just this is the enemy. He doesn't change his his schemes. He will use God's word against you. So, there are a lot of difficult steps in this juncture, but the actual steps are actually very easy.
Speaker 1:123, 1, remove the root. 2, r r, renounce and repent. And 3, this is the unusual one but it's because of what I've just said, in these twisting scripture, they need a lot of reality. You wouldn't think that, but they've gotta hear you start talking reality to them. So I'm telling you, it's simple.
Speaker 1:And people will get well if they will do these steps. Number 1, remove the demonic root. You've gotta find what's causing it, the source. They can't live with it. They have gotten into some kind of pride or just assumption, and they've gotten with something that is a source that is making their head go crazy.
Speaker 1:And every time they have exposure to it, it starts all over again. And it has them. It has you. And they think they're dying, but they won't let go. Please please help me.
Speaker 1:Let go of the snake. It is biting you repeatedly. Let go of the snake, but it's Christian. I'm a Christian. Let go of the snake.
Speaker 1:Alright. They have made contact with something or someone that they were not prepared for spiritually. I've even gotten into different environments and they tell me you've made contact with the spirit of some sort of unsolved perpetual thing that I have not solved and I'm in a foreign country. Yeah. You're gonna have a run for your money.
Speaker 1:Because different climates produce different set of mental thoughts that you must be on the alert of and realize that's deception. I'm not going there. That voice is not telling me the truth. That's not my father's voice. If it's a person, who or a what that's causing it?
Speaker 1:You've gotta determine it. You've made contact with something. You made contact with something the enemy has offered on the peddler's wagon. And anytime the devil wants to hit you and knock you down for a few days, he will use it. So he'll hit you within security or control or something.
Speaker 1:And if you get into this, it hits you at the worst times. And you get into what I'm gonna call a fear of loss. Guess what the enemy will get you to do? He will talk you into doing the very thing to cause that person to lose what they're fearing. If you have a fear of loss, the enemy will get your behavior to cause you to act in such a way that you'll lose what you fear losing.
Speaker 1:Remember, red is dead, red is dead, red is dead. You can't white knuckle grip at this time. Remember with my parents, I was having those thoughts. They're crazy. They're gonna make you crazy, the enemy is quoting verses, if you don't do this, they will live for the rest of their time with this confusion and they will do all kinds of things to repress it.
Speaker 1:This is where people make their mistake is number 1. This is honestly whether you will be able to pull them out or not or whether the person will get out or not, is they have to finally agree with you. This is the source of my problem. This is what is causing my problem, and I'm ready to let go of it. Because they are lying to themselves that they think they can keep it and live with it and baptize it, and that they can live with peace of mind.
Speaker 1:The person realizes when they're in the head spin that I can help them get out or some other person god sent into their life who loves them can help them get out. I would say prayer and fasting is very beneficial here. When you can't get anything else to move it, sometimes fasting will target it and break its hold, the strength of the attack. I had to put my own armor on to bring them out. It keeps you from being pulled in with it because you have vulnerable spots.
Speaker 1:You have things that are are not right. And if you get 2 of you with the head spinning, the enemy got double for his trouble. So it's like reaching into the tornado, even if it's a person that is not the source of the problem, they're just under the spell, most of the time you reach in and you have to pull out and you have to reach in and pull out. You can't stay consistently in the tornado. You're doing what you can to yank them out.
Speaker 1:This is number 1, recognize the root. And this is the one where the person will make a free will choice, do they want out? Because the root has to be identified. Now it's easy from here. You just start renouncing and repenting.
Speaker 1:And you renounce and you repent and you repent and you renounce. Don't ask me how many times. I'm gonna give you a number like Jesus. 70 times 7. That's one day.
Speaker 1:Renounce, repent, repent, renounce. Let me explain renounce well. And I'm doing this because I had no idea what renounce was. I just thought it was another r word, resist, rebuke. I just thought it was a good word, you just gotta have some r's to make the sermon good.
Speaker 1:And so they always threw renounce in there. Let me give you a definition of renounce. We had it before our eyes with Dawn because she had made an unholy agreement. She had made an alliance. She handed someone else control, reigns of her life, And Steph was trying to save her life and she cried out, I can't do that.
Speaker 1:It was so touching and sweet. I can't do that. Until that evening, she was back with a knife to kill stuff, then it wasn't touching. That's how we learn renounce. It would have been so simple, renounce.
Speaker 1:But sometimes, the power of the devil comes over them. It's emotional. It's soulish. It's emotional. She couldn't do it.
Speaker 1:But that knot, she was not emotional. It's sweet. It turns on you. So renounce. Renounce is such a unique concept.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love thinking about it. When you have made an agreement at any level with something other than God, his word, his will, you have to renounce. Like some people have asked me, if I make an oath, can I get out of it? Like, there's some very serious scriptures in the bible on keeping your oath. Okay.
Speaker 1:This is that sort of that form. This is you have made an oath, an agreement. You've made something with the devil and believe me, he is a legalistic entity. He will come to make you pay. He will come to your door.
Speaker 1:He has legal right. He is gonna completely use it. You must start renouncing. This is the way you make your will let go of what's killing you. This is the way you get out of agreement with something that is not God's will.
Speaker 1:This is the way you break any agreements of the past. You must renounce. Someone said, but I did that 20 years ago. Well, it still stands until you renounce it. You must renounce any putting your agreement towards something that's evil.
Speaker 1:And then I would tell you over repent. Just over repent. Just repent. Just over repent. It's not gonna hurt you.
Speaker 1:You haven't repented enough, this will help you. You can start if you're the person helping the person, you repent on their behalf. Nehemiah 16 through 7, in our deep dive into Nehemiah. He started repenting for himself and his family and generational curses. Repent.
Speaker 1:Repent. They will get to the point they're able to repent for themselves. You're taking the blocks out of the spiritual realm. You're not going through spiritual warfare. Your head is not spinning.
Speaker 1:You're in much better shape than they are. Repent for them. Repent. Even use John 20 and forgive their sins. Repent.
Speaker 1:Repent. Repent. I don't see any scriptures that prohibit this kind of behavior. Just give it all you've got for them. I'll never forget in the Philippines that I was with this team leader.
Speaker 1:That night, you know, there were all these crazy people around us, like, it was hot. This kind of temperature were out. And she prays, she says, lord, because we were so tired, we just couldn't imagine from having started so early in the morning and then, you know, just how light of night since these kind of days in this sweltering heat. And she says, lord, I wanna pray for them the way I would want them to pray for me if I was in their situation. And then we went out that night and we gathered the crowds and we preach.
Speaker 1:This is what you're doing here. This is a standing in the hedge. This is an intercession where you cry out for them. So when they're able to repent for themselves, this is like the prodigal. The father had stood there and prayed for to come home and he prayed.
Speaker 1:And at some point, the prodigal, to come home and he prayed and at some point the prodigal owned it. And people must own their repentance, but if they can't at first, it's normal. So you repent. And the prodigal said in Luke 15 verse 18, I will get up and I will go to my father and I will say to him, father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.
Speaker 1:Just make me one of your hard men. So he got up and he came to his father. Let me give you a word of caution though. Don't let someone come home until they repented though. People will say, oh, you're so cruel.
Speaker 1:You're just not letting people back into cross lines. I can't. It's like a prodigal coming home without repentance. You got to repent. Really, it's free gift.
Speaker 1:How many of God wouldn't let you repent? Oh, you did it. That's it. You get your wages, you know, the wages of sin is death. Repentance is a gift.
Speaker 1:Why are you making it like I'm doing you an injustice to tell you just repent and you can get okay again. So repent. I may be even repenting for you. So at this point of repent and renounce, one of the cases that came to us was one of the worst cases of abuse I'd ever seen at the hands of a true Jezebel in every sense of the word. One of the most heart wrenching cases you've ever heard, but hidden and deadly.
Speaker 1:And guess what we did? White boarded her. And we took her life and did all the patterns and it was very clear what had happened to her. There was an assignment against her to reject her, to completely destroy her. When she was through, she took a picture of the whiteboard, but this has had a hold on her for so many decades.
Speaker 1:Months later, as she gets up and she goes to the board and she renounces everything that we taught her. It was good use of our time. She renounces. She renounces. She said the Lord has given me many whiteboards, more of stuff that I've written out in my diary and my journal to renounce.
Speaker 1:And so she's renouncing every agreement she made with rejection that she's not loved. Every agreement she's made that has made her have insecurity in legitimately. From a very young age, that parent drilled these things into her, and she has strength and she's able to do this. And she told me, she says, I look into the scripture and God gives me more scripture on the situation. And then I renounce and I renounce and I renounce, but you must renounce.
Speaker 1:And let me tell you something here, when we have talked over the first one of finding the root and the second one on renounce, I want you to hear something. On this particular thing, this type of thing, I'm gonna tell you, I believe in deliverance, perhaps more than all of you. But a 100 deliverances won't fix this, it's their will. You're not hearing me say deliverance. You're hearing me say, you are breaking their wills agreement with willful chaos, willful sin, willful doing what God told them not to do.
Speaker 1:You can't cast out something that they have accepted into their flesh, invited it in and called it friend. You can't. So they have to renounce fear, renounce hopelessness. Listen to this one if this is not the truth. Renounce being separated from God for eternity.
Speaker 1:You renounce fear, renounce hopelessness, renounce miserable, and renounce the fear of being separated from God for eternity. Believe me, that thought's down in there. It is. So the last r, reality. This is where it is so dasy.
Speaker 1:Our guy knows his scripture like you cannot imagine. Can have some of the deepest conversations that are unbelievably good, but our guy cannot take truth yet because he can barely take reality. Sometimes if you hear my lesson on the difference between reality and truth, you're gonna understand what I'm saying. Sometimes going for truth is too much, and you gotta pull back and go for reality. I'm gonna explain that a little bit.
Speaker 1:It's odd. But I wondered, why is this not working? Of course, I believe in the word of God. Why is this not working? This is you giving them conflict right now.
Speaker 1:Conflict. The worst thing that you can have happen is if somebody gets in agreement against what you're telling them. If they can find an agreement partner to say, she's crazy. She didn't know what she's talking about. If they can find agreement right now at that point, it'll be the grace of God if they can pull out of that.
Speaker 1:Because right now, you're bringing conflict into it. You're helping them let go. Reality. The prodigal. Remember him?
Speaker 1:Self talk. My dad makes me work all the time. I never have any time to be with my friends. I deserve to be taken care of. My dad's not fair, his self talk.
Speaker 1:What made the prodigal go home? Wasn't scripture. Luke 15:70, the prodigal finally said something to himself. It's hilarious. A moment of clarity, constructive reality.
Speaker 1:And he was like, I'm eating what the pigs are eating, I'm filling my tummy up with pods. My dad cooks so much better for his hard meat, I think I shall go and eat with my father. Does that sound like scripture to you? No. Do you know who tells this story?
Speaker 1:Jesus. The truth is, it's no great epiphany that usually gets you well. It's reality. Ain't that shocking that the son of God tells us that what turns a man back to his home, back to his father is not because he is so spiritual. It's because he's hungry.
Speaker 1:He doesn't like what he's eating. I mean, do we make this about men or do we just say we're all gullible? We all do this? I mean, really, it's reality that turns us around a 180 degrees. Don't over spiritualize this.
Speaker 1:They need lots of reality at this point. Remember the elevator, how far are they gonna go? I'll meet people and I'll tell them, I wish you had at least done this 2 floors up from where you fell. I mean, those last two floors. You hit solid rock down there somewhere.
Speaker 1:I mean, you don't look the same. Like, give me something to work with. So what turned this guy around is these little words, listen to it in the bible. He came to his senses and that's all this ministry does is try to help you come to your senses. That's why over years, they named this Bible say reality check.
Speaker 1:Because while everyone else is making you comfortable, I'm trying to help you come to your senses because your head is spinning. It is lying to you. It is not telling you the truth. You're like in a parachute. Spin.
Speaker 1:Dive. You're doing terrible. You must come to your senses. And so, a moment of clarity and constructive reality. Now, don't take it and make it so It's so wonderful.
Speaker 1:This trip No. It's gonna be about like that. They do eat better. I love my mother. I'm going home.
Speaker 1:It is. It's that deep. So I realized I'm not working with as much as I thought I'm working with in myself or with other people. I'm telling you, if you're gonna work with people, just don't work with them about their children. There is no reality there.
Speaker 1:There's no clarity. I mean, you're gonna get in trouble. Just know the problems in the church happened in the nursery, and just be careful about the children. It's gonna be a problem. So I'm gonna tell you a couple of stories like this.
Speaker 1:We had people drive from many states over to bring us this child, and they bring us this child. The thing about this child is he's little, he's very small, And they have one of those very gentle families. Unlike many of us here at Crosslines, you just go in, the whole family's just nice, polite, gentle. Everyone has great manners. They're just one of those kind of people that everything's soft and well said and you just feel embraced edification.
Speaker 1:It's that kind of family. And they had 3 children and they were all 3 gentle souls, Just nice. And then they got hurricane disaster. They adopted this terror on wheels and it's torn up their whole family. The big old strapping teenage son is like, we can't even stay home.
Speaker 1:I mean, at this grandmother's house, they were throwing the kid out the back door and locking the door. The whole family was like and I'm like, we're gonna say he's 9 at this point? 8? What it just some young age and they've already lost control. I'm thinking, I'm gonna get him in 10 years.
Speaker 1:If you've lost control now, we have severe problems. So they have driven all the way in for steps in my wisdom. We having he's at the Jackson House in the usual positions. The mother is, like, traumatized. She's going, I can't live like this.
Speaker 1:Just wrecked my family. I don't even have my own children now. And, You know, you're just like, well, there's a little bit of biological divide there. And it's just and, you know, you're looking at the kid and we're like, he's no problem. You could pick him up by a belt loop and have him.
Speaker 1:But anyway, he was having fun. He just need to be told no. And so Steph does the most amazing talk to him. Like, I was like, this is the most logical, unbelievable way that she has dealt with him. She goes, I was that child.
Speaker 1:I was a strong willed child. He is wanting this from you. He wants boundaries and I mean, by the time you were through, I'll have my hand over my heart singing the star spangled bed. I mean, it was a unbelievable sermon. But we weren't through then so we add scripture to it.
Speaker 1:And we tell them all these deep spiritual truths. And it was the most beautiful 6 hours you ever spend to get their home back into order. You know, it's our time. It means something to us. What we want out of you is don't waste our time.
Speaker 1:Be successful. If you're successful, it wasn't a waste. But if you're not successful, I should send you a bill for failures. So anyway, we had done this and we had done a really good job and everyone told us, we had never thought of it this way. I'll do a quote and then we'll edit it, I guess.
Speaker 1:You want me to say one of Steph's quotes? Just get the child up every morning and just beat the child and then go about the day. They're gonna need a spanking before the day starts. And I mean, so they had a good laugh. At least we have a good sense of humor.
Speaker 1:We didn't mean that, you know. And and the child is just, you know, he's looks and his eyes are all and he's like, I wonder if they really do it because he needs to feel a little love, a little warmth on the backside. I mean, he needs something. I mean, he's begging for help. So anyway, we go upstairs and so the child's upstairs with the father and you don't let the child rule the house.
Speaker 1:You don't let him tell you what to do. The father says to the child, son, would you like to come downstairs? The kid didn't just say no. Still, he's licking her eyes, licking at him like, you asked, would you like to come down? You didn't say, we've been waiting, come down, we've called you.
Speaker 1:Oh, no. Son, would you like to come down? I don't have words. I didn't know the father. I thought the father I thought we were wrong.
Speaker 1:It's not the son that needs spanking. It was amazing. I got out of there and I told Steph. I said, are people lying to us? I mean, were they just making us feel good that we had said all these wonderful smart I mean, why was everybody agreeing with us?
Speaker 1:Why did they drive all these miles and why did we go through and put ourselves through this and we know the battle's lost now? I mean, pick him up by the belt and if you want to laugh, if you want to, but still beat him. Do something. Just warmly help the kid know, it's time to go downstairs. This is not a hard battle.
Speaker 1:Oh, it didn't work. And I asked Steph, what did we do wrong? We've given him a lot of everything. We came up with something that people do to us that we had not realized people do to us. Maybe we're convincing.
Speaker 1:I don't know. Maybe it's just easier to agree with us than not. Maybe they really well, what we're talking about sounds like we're right, but when they really get down to the hard decision, they're not gonna do it. And I just need to know from the beginning, I'm not gonna do it. So I can save my time, you save yours and I'm just not gonna do it.
Speaker 1:And we named it something, people are giving us mental ascent, they agree with us, They do. You know, we decided he was not lying to us. He was not lying to us. The father actually agreed, we were right. He really did think our jokes were funny.
Speaker 1:He gave us mental ascent. And it was at that moment of us discussing this from Brownwood to Houston to say, how can we stop this mental ascent that we realized people need reality? I'm a tell you a second one then I'll explain it. So, we had another father with his son and it was very important. The Lord told me his protection's in danger.
Speaker 1:He needs prayer. This son needs to do this. And so, I tell the father, you have to talk to your son. Okay? And so he talks to his son and it's like, would you like to?
Speaker 1:Would you like to? I've never had my dad below 12 said, would you like to? Do you know what you've just told your son? I'm gonna let your feelings make all the decisions. I'm gonna let your fear stand up to anything God's telling you to do.
Speaker 1:Your fear is more important than what the Lord's telling you. Your fear is more important than someone trying to help you. Son, whatever you feel you'll do. Both fathers agreed. Were they lying?
Speaker 1:No. But they were under it and they're raising children to be dictators. Isaiah 34. And one of the curses is, I'll give you children to be your rulers. And we're a country that even some of the children have better thinking than the parents.
Speaker 1:And then the parents are raising their children to honor the all their feelings. And you don't have to be harsh. My dad always kept me on his team. I make a lot of jokes about my dad and yes, he was tough and he could dress me down, but truthfully, I respected my dad. I loved him.
Speaker 1:It was not hard. My dad made life very easy for me. That's the truth. He kept me on his team. You can do it.
Speaker 1:And so what I realized is we've given him a lot of truth from the bible. We'd shared personal stories but from then on we were gonna up the dose of reality because we realized they didn't have the will and the strength to do it just because the Bible told them so. That is how you get into this. It's when you don't have the will and the strength, the tenacity to do it just because the bible tells you so. So that's when I realized I can't be hitting them with truth.
Speaker 1:They're going, yes. I know this. I've heard this all my life. You're telling me nothing new. This is truth.
Speaker 1:I know my bible. They're giving me mental ascent, but they do not have the ability to do it just because God asked them to. So you've gotta work through people with reality. Genesis 3917, Potiphar's wife, then she told the same story, that Hebrew slave you bought for me, he came and he made sport of me. Now, miss Potiphar, Joseph is in prison and you're still telling yourself the same thing and they tell the story over and over.
Speaker 1:Delilah, Judges 16, 15, blame Samson, you don't love me. You don't love me. Now miss Delilah, you're the one who doesn't love Samson. Every time you play the little game, the ninja men jump out and they stab me and you know what happened? They carved out his eyes and they gouged him out and he's not liking his new job.
Speaker 1:Reality. People tell you what you want to hear, and what's bad is this moves into people who have never lied start lying. And I've seen it take place. When you speak the truth, they're not ready for it. So we found that reality is the first step and Jesus had gone through this with Peter.
Speaker 1:And he had worked with Peter, he had told him you're going to deny me, he told him it's gonna be the rooster crowing. Peter and Jesus looked at one another, but how do you start fixing me? Peter, do you love me? Of course, I love you. Peter, do you love me?
Speaker 1:Peter, do you love me? Peter, do you love me? It's gotta be reality. There's worlds of non reality and people will try to keep it sweet and play it nice and it's what is killing them. And my friend who whiteboards and started loving the fact that she had a way to get out of this mental place that her mother had put her, that you are not worth being loved, you're just not loved.
Speaker 1:And she had made excuses all her life for her mother trying to convince herself there was another reason why she's not loved. And I could tell you 1, 2, 3, and I wrote them and I marked them out because they are so intensely personal and so deeply private. But at the very end of her mother's life, she said, that's how it is. I just never loved you and I don't know why. Then and we have him in our room and the trauma is still there just like it happened the day before.
Speaker 1:And together they would say, mom, the 2 sisters, she was not that bad. Oh, she had control. She just never worked out of it. It's a polite society and I wish I could tell you their words because I'm not that articulate or precise in the way they could paint their mother and their life. But they went on with it and you realize this is how they dealt with it.
Speaker 1:This is how they got through it was they would tell themselves this is the story. And out of Steph's mouth came enough at another word. And she said, you tell yourself the truth. That is not the truth. And she said these words, you were sisters in trauma but not sisters in truth.
Speaker 1:And I thought that was profound. You know, it's not wise to go that strong into reality unless you're prepared to do the far, find the route, get away from it, repent and renounce and speak reality because you're gonna have to keep speaking reality to it. As much as you wish things had been that way, what could have been, would have been, should have been, it's not reality. Only the Lord can heal it, but he can't heal it when you're giving yourself a false sense of reality and an excuse to play like this happened. And that thing that Steph threw and those words she spoke is it is time to be sisters of truth.
Speaker 1:And, man, it is time to rise up and accept what the bible is saying. You know, sanctified reasoning can lead you towards the lord. You can get closer and at some point, people can start receiving what I'm saying to them and reality actually start pulling their head above the water rather than being tied to what they've lied to themselves about for years. At some point, they've gotta choose to believe what I'm telling them. It's like that plane that I said, sometimes you fly your airplane by your eyesight, but sometimes in a storm when you can't see, you've gotta fly trusting your instruments.
Speaker 1:And the instruments you've got to trust during this is the word of God. You've got to say these words to yourself. Many times, you want the problem solved, but you don't necessarily want God. So it takes a lot of speaking of things that counteract the voice that's in their head telling them to bring them out. Remember, think of Robbie.
Speaker 1:Good discernment, hearing God, to know what they're thinking. Jesus knew their thoughts. 1 of you asked me, who can I trust in this? Who would you trust if you were me? And I had to say a bold statement, I would trust me because I'll tell you the truth.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna end with this story. Went too long ago that a woman came to my house and she told me this story. She said, Angie, I don't know what happened to me for 5 years. She began to tell me what went on in their household and they caused everyone else and themselves all this chaos. And this woman is a strong Christian leader who people respect, very successful in business, can outdo all of her competition.
Speaker 1:It's completely out of the league of what most people can accomplish. It would take a very clear head to do what she did, but she lost herself. But when her husband came to her, it's at the moment that she was ending everything. She was saying, no, I did not do that. I never did it.
Speaker 1:I never did those things. I never did those things. She told me this story with tears and he showed me these videos. And there she was, reality. She didn't break and she didn't get well until she saw herself doing what he had said.
Speaker 1:The video broke her and she came to me and she said, the lord told me that you'd be able to tell me what happened. And that's when I had to hear the lord, what are the steps? And they're very simple, repent, announce, and speak reality. And when you get enough reality, then you get to go to truth if you'll start believing it and doing it and love truth so as to be saved. So help you God.
Speaker 1:Amen.