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You are a business owner who wants to prioritize people and planet over profits (without sacrificing success). That can feel lonely—but you are not alone! Join host Becky Mollenkamp for in-depth conversations with experts and other founders about how to build a more equitable world through entrepreneurship. It’s time to change the business landscape for good!
Becky Mollenkamp (00:01.142)
Hi Mai-kee how are you?
Mai-kee Tsang (00:03.109)
Hey, Becky, I am great. How are you doing?
Becky Mollenkamp (00:06.574)
It's so nice to see you again. You've been on Feminist Founders before. So I will link to it in the show notes if people want to hear your previous story and all the amazing things you talked about with pitching yourself to a lot of podcasts and getting on all of those shows and learning how to use your voice in that way. Things have changed since then. so...
Mai-kee Tsang (00:09.987)
I have, yes.
Mai-kee Tsang (00:24.827)
hmmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (00:27.615)
kind of where you are now. I know you said it was gonna be hard to introduce yourself because things have changed so much. So this is sort of a fun place for you to experiment with how do you introduce yourself now?
Mai-kee Tsang (00:38.689)
good question. So if I were to answer this question six months ago, I would have a super prudent proper introduction and be like, hi, I'm Meikei Tsang, I use she, her pronouns, and I'm the sustainable visibility mentor, podcast guesting strategist, yada, yada, yada. So that's how I would have introduced myself. And now I guess I would introduce myself as a person learning to be as opposed to keep doing because I, you know, lot of...
Things have changed in the last six months, which I'm sure we'll get into into this chat today. But yeah, honestly, I'm okay with not knowing right now who I am, or rather how to introduce myself.
Becky Mollenkamp (01:11.437)
I will.
Becky Mollenkamp (01:17.39)
Because we are so obsessed with what we do and not who we are. And I love that. I have a shirt that says, I'm a human being, not a human doing. And I like that you're sort of exiting your human doing stage, at least for a while, and just being firmly in your human being stage, which is so beautiful. And what we're here to talk about is your sabbatical, which, as I understand, sort of was a key part of some of this transition that you're in. So maybe you then can tell us
Mai-kee Tsang (01:21.593)
Mm-hmm.
Mai-kee Tsang (01:25.7)
I love that.
Mai-kee Tsang (01:29.531)
I'm sorry.
Mai-kee Tsang (01:37.935)
Mm-hmm.
Mai-kee Tsang (01:41.934)
It was.
Becky Mollenkamp (01:46.624)
about that, about what brought you to deciding, because we already had Paige, I had a conversation with Paige Worthy earlier in this series that we're doing this summer about invisible labor and women's labor. And she also took a sabbatical and it was also two months, what hers was, and it radically transformed her relationship with work. So people have a little understanding about what a sabbatical is. If you don't go listen to that episode, I will link it in the show notes as well. So maybe you can just start with telling us what
Mai-kee Tsang (01:59.109)
Hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (02:15.438)
brought you to the idea of taking a sabbatical.
Mai-kee Tsang (02:18.395)
So I've taken breaks before and I just felt like I needed another one. So just want to give a gentle trigger warning here. I'm about to talk about pet loss and I am still a cat mama. I was a cat mama of two and now I am of one for now and I think that's a huge part of it. So I had been running my business for
Becky Mollenkamp (02:30.43)
Thank you.
Mai-kee Tsang (02:44.443)
At the time before the sabbatical, it was just shy of seven years. And then in December of 2024, I unexpectedly saw the rapid decline of my dearest soul cat, her name's Luna, and I'm actually like wearing her right now. I have a little bit of memorial jewelry made in her honor. And I didn't realize how heartbreaking that would be. I always knew that it would happen someday.
but it's because it happened so suddenly. I just came back from a holiday with one of my best friends and then I just noticed a couple of lumps on her body and then I just got very concerned, took a bit of that and the vet gave us breakdown of what it could have been and unfortunately it was the worst possible thing. And it happened exactly a week before Christmas and I do celebrate Christmas, just for the record, and I just didn't want to talk to anyone. I didn't want to do anything. I didn't...
even want to think about coming back to work when January came. And if it wasn't for the fact that I had already committed to running a second season of what I like to call my sustainable visibility, not quite a summit thing, it was my annual digital event where I brought together experts from all walks of life, lived experiences, identities, where they could share.
their own way that they were able to be sustainably visible in their businesses. And I do not regret for a second that I ran it. I just knew that it was going to be very hard to be at the peak of my grief whilst holding space for such incredible people. And then, you know, life happened for many of my speakers and my community altogether. And a speaker reached out to me a couple of weeks after
the event finished and asked me, is everything okay? Because while you did a fantastic job hosting, et cetera, et cetera, I feel like something is heavy on your heart. And I wasn't shy at all talking about the loss of Luna. So I think they knew, you know, a reason for that. But because I held off on my grief, because I prioritized taking care of everybody else, my family, my friends, my, and my speakers, of course.
Mai-kee Tsang (05:09.153)
I just never gave myself the chance to truly just be and to grieve. And once the event was over, I felt a huge sigh of relief that I could stop.
holding space and allow myself to be held. And that happened through this sabbatical. So it was a gift to my grief and to myself to give myself this space where I didn't have to think of anything else. And mind you, for those who are listening, over, I think since this late spring of 2024, I also picked up some nonprofit work with an LGBT charity.
and it has since then become a bigger part of my world than I ever thought possible. So during the sabbatical for my business, I was still maintaining this non-profit work and it gave me a connection to the community that I never gave myself access to. Not to say that the opportunities went there, but it might have been a cultural thing, it might have been timing thing, many reasons why I never fully delved into
the LGBT aspect of my identity. So I felt like that in itself was very healing. And then that was when the two months started that I gave myself the gift of the sabbatical. And I kid you not, Becky, the first month of May, that was also my birthday month as well, I was constantly checking my email. I was like, okay, I never have my out of office autoresponder on, but.
I was still checking this email like day and night, many times a day and it just wouldn't stop. And I asked myself, what is the worst that could happen? I missed an email, sure, but if people emailed me, they would have gotten the autoresponder, they would have been informed why I wasn't going to be able to reply until later. And I spoke to a couple of Binsbesties as well and they all told me the same thing. They're like,
Mai-kee Tsang (07:18.235)
Like, you know, honestly, what's the worst that can happen? And so it was like a switch that flipped when it came to June. And in June, I spent a lot of time reconnecting with my family. went down. So I'm not a super confident driver. I've been able to drive since I was 18 years old, but I'm just, I don't love driving. I just don't. It's just a skill that I have, but I don't love it. So my partner and I drove down to see my dad. It's like a three hour trip.
and that was a huge step forward in my partner's connection to my father, which is wonderful. And my nephew, it was his birthday, he turned five and I was in charge of making his Hot Wheels themed cake, which as I tried to do my, I did my best with the loop-de-loop, but fondant icing was just not on my side. And then before I knew it, July was just around the corner. And then I felt a sense of
guilt the fact that I dreaded that it was going to be July so soon. And then I had to do a lot of exploring and I also started therapy during the sabbatical as well and I came to realize that the very reason I left my previous job before I started my business is because my entire identity was my work.
Becky Mollenkamp (08:44.206)
How many people can relate to that?
Mai-kee Tsang (08:46.715)
Mm-hmm. And I had to come to the realization that I reached seven years in my business during this sabbatical. Every year I had celebrated. This time I didn't. I didn't even remember it was there. And as well as the anniversary of my business. Sorry, not my business, my podcast. I completely forgot. And even when I remembered...
I felt awful that I didn't even want to celebrate it. So I had a lot of conflicting feelings and it had nothing to do with the fact that it had nothing to do with my community, nothing to do with my clients, nothing to do with my office. It was nothing to do with any of that. And that's what made the guilt so strong. It's, I came to realize, oh gosh, I feel that I'm the perfect description of what it means to be indifferent.
Becky Mollenkamp (09:49.102)
and sitting with that is probably uncomfortable.
Mai-kee Tsang (09:53.283)
Incredibly. yeah, I procrastinated for weeks to let my community know that this feeling I had for a pause might be a bit longer than I thought and not in a way like, I know the exact date I'm coming back is more like, I don't know if I will come back in the same way or at all. And I even sent out an email, which I think the title was, I'm okay with not knowing. But of course.
as a hopefully responsible person, I made sure that any loose ends were tied so all of my clients, all of my community knew how to access anything they purchased from me that I thought I sorted all that out before I started counselling subscription by subscription which my credit card was very happy with by the way but I didn't want to leave unannounced because I felt that that was a cop-out and I didn't want to be a coward
I didn't want to run away, I wanted to be able to walk away, which is very different.
Becky Mollenkamp (10:55.842)
Yeah, well, when I reached out to you to say, let's have this conversation, because we're doing this summer series about the weight that women carry through all sorts of invisible labor. And I think sabbaticals can be a piece of one of the tools potentially in a person's toolbox for managing some of that, right? That weight to give yourself some spaciousness. But when I approached you, you were like, well, things are changing. I don't know if I'm going to return to my business.
Mai-kee Tsang (10:58.497)
Mmm. Yeah.
Mai-kee Tsang (11:22.979)
Mm. Mm.
Becky Mollenkamp (11:24.994)
Are you sure you still wanna have me on, right? And I'm curious if you can share what that was. What was the feeling of you saying, I'm not sure if I should be on this show to talk about this because I might not return to my business.
Mai-kee Tsang (11:37.147)
Mm, yes. So that was the podcast guesting strategy. Just in me was like, there's nowhere to send folks after this interview. It's more about I didn't want to lead folks to a dead end, nor did I want any of my... this is probably what it is. I didn't want my words to seem any less worthy if I had nothing to show for it, if my website was closed or...
It just wasn't what it used to be. gosh. Okay. Realization in the moment. It's more that because I actually had plans to start co-hosting a podcast with a dear, best, bestie of mine. And we didn't even have a name for it. We've been talking about it for years and for a long time, we have been like, we'll get to it. We'll get to it. And then this year we actually finally had like recording dates in the diary for when I was back. And I also had to have a very
Transparent conversation with them and they completely understood by the way. So very very grateful to have such wonderful friends So I had all the plans and then I said to them I'm not even sure if I feel okay Speaking on this podcast that we're creating that's to help business owners You know with their businesses in whichever shape or form that may have been and they said to me You know, you do realize that you friend this business for like six seven years, right? So
Even if you're choosing not to move forward with it, it doesn't take away the value that you've accumulated, the respect you've earned, the reputation you've built, you know, because of this decision. It doesn't take away any of that. And my other biz besties who like, have mini masterminds, I'm speaking with them tomorrow actually, they said the same thing. was like, you know, your value is not gone. You know, just because you're deciding to make your business decide character.
opposed to the main character and that was very interesting. So there's a lot of swirling thoughts around worth and value through this transition.
Becky Mollenkamp (13:43.36)
suspected perhaps. And maybe also like there was a piece of me that wondered, I wonder if Mickey's afraid of people feeling like, well now I don't want to take a sabbatical because I may walk away from my business. Like if you went right here.
Mai-kee Tsang (13:56.301)
yeah, that too. was like, I don't kind of want to inspire them to unless it's actually what they needed to hear.
Becky Mollenkamp (14:01.652)
Exactly. Well, I think it's important for people to hear this permission slip to say, I can walk away from my business.
and it still have been a success. In the same way I think we think about divorce. So many people think of divorce as a failure. And can we get to a place of saying the relationship for the time that it was successful was a successful relationship. And the end of it doesn't mean a failure. It means I'm leaving something that no longer works for me. But what it was was successful while it was successful, right? And I think, can we extend that to our businesses as well? But I hear from clients and other people I know.
Mai-kee Tsang (14:17.243)
Mmm.
Mai-kee Tsang (14:30.608)
Hmm.
Mai-kee Tsang (14:34.166)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (14:40.398)
who have so many of those same fears that you do of if I change the way my relationship with my business, if I tell people I'm not happy anymore, if I give advice even though I'm not doing that thing anymore, if I walk away from the business, all these things bring up all of these fears around what does that say about me? What will people think of me? Am I a failure now? I think it's important for people to hear the stories of people who can say,
Mai-kee Tsang (14:42.501)
Mm-hmm.
Mai-kee Tsang (14:52.696)
Mm-hmm
Mai-kee Tsang (14:59.353)
Mm-hmm.
Mai-kee Tsang (15:03.363)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (15:09.486)
had a successful seven year run and me now saying I'm ready for something different doesn't change that. So I think that story is important, Meike, and that's why when you said, you sure you saw me? I'm like, I want you to come on even more now.
Mai-kee Tsang (15:24.251)
I'm so glad that I did as well. So thank you so much for that. you know, I, when I painstakingly spent a very late, like past the midnight oil burning Friday evening, a few weeks ago, back in July at the time of this recording, I wrote out this email to my community to let them know what was happening. And before it was all the formal...
stuff about, you know, any access to courses, digital products, etc. It was more about the heart to heart aspect of informing them. And I received, I kid you not, dozens of emails, I think over 50 in 48 hours, or something like that, with folks being so kind and supportive and loving and some of them even, you know, just as you said, with
like, I have a fear of like, if I'm just inspiring others to like walk away and or anything like that. And actually, there were a couple who did reach out to let me know that, I'm doing this too, but a bit more quietly than you, like literally like just close up shop and go. And others have been in, I think one of my community members was walking away from business of 21 years. And I can't wow, like that's triple the run that I've had myself. And so it was very interesting. And I realised that
something that I learned kind of the hard way was realizing that as...
You need to, at the end of the day, take care of the people behind your closed door first. And it doesn't mean that the people that you serve aren't important, of course they are. But at the end of the day, you need to be the one to keep the lights on. You need to put the food on the table. And speaking of food on the table, I anticipate in the next couple of years that there'll be more food required at this table because one of the big things...
Mai-kee Tsang (17:24.335)
the big conversations I had with my partner was about the fact that we want to start a family in a few years and my...
I've had a lot of experiences as a child with my parents being around the best that they possibly could but they were constantly working and I just thought they ran their own business and maybe obviously there are plenty of businesses that run beautifully well without needing to constantly be in it but that's what I grew up with with you know the business having to come first in many ways in order to keep food on our tables.
And so I had to ask myself, what can wait and what cannot? And the what cannot wait is starting my family because I am in a same sex relationship and therefore my partner and I, we've decided to go down the, it's not quite IVF. I honestly forget the terms right now, but it's basically a deconstructed IVF process. And I, and it's a lot of money to be able to do that. And it's going to...
take a big mental toll and in through all of that I wouldn't want my work to suffer because I know that my work in my business is so personal in many ways and I didn't want that to decline in quality in any way. I always want to be transparent with my community and my clients but I didn't want to have another thing to worry about which I know can absolutely affect my health.
And that's very important because I will be the carrier of my children. So it's all of those things and I had to admit that.
Mai-kee Tsang (19:12.835)
what can wait is being a business owner again.
Becky Mollenkamp (19:17.218)
Yeah. And I know that there was some indifference that you felt about your business by the end of that sabbatical time and trying to decide, am I going to go back or not go back and all of that. When you made the decision, though, and said, at least for a stretch, right? I don't know that you've said, like, it's the final nail in the coffin, but for at least now, there's a long pause ahead of you, you think. So when you finally did make that decision,
Mai-kee Tsang (19:21.987)
Mm.
Mai-kee Tsang (19:27.545)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
just like Justin Bieber said, never say never. Yes.
Becky Mollenkamp (19:44.11)
Was there grief inside of it, even though there was up until that point a little bit of indifference when it was time to say goodbye? Yeah, tell me a little bit about that because I think people can also struggle with that where it feels like if I was really ready to be done, it wouldn't be hard or, you know, like, all right, we need to be completely indifferent. I need to hate it. And sometimes that's not like sometimes we have to say goodbye to things. And it's hard, even if it's what we really want to do.
Mai-kee Tsang (19:49.301)
absolutely.
Mai-kee Tsang (19:58.492)
Yeah, that's true. That's
Mai-kee Tsang (20:09.121)
Mm-hmm. yes. there's a lot of feelings and to be honest, I'm not sure at this point that I'm completely settled on these feelings. Exactly. Yeah, this is my messy middle. Just FYI to you wonderful folks who are listening right now. This is my messy middle. So yeah, I do not have very coherent thoughts right now.
Becky Mollenkamp (20:17.11)
I mean, you're sort of in the middle of it right now.
Becky Mollenkamp (20:29.038)
It's okay, it's good to hear those.
Mai-kee Tsang (20:31.269)
So yeah, I absolutely felt grief and I still do. I think, I mean, I can't even pinpoint a exact line, like string of words or anything, but I actually have a cousin who is the only other person in my family who gave a really good try in doing their own thing outside of getting a job, right? And I think for so long in the entrepreneurial world, we've kind of villainized.
jobs it's because I know for a fact that my my previous work before my business absolutely villainized having a job as if it was such an evil thing that it was like the end of your road right it's like well you can always go back to a job after you tried everything entrepreneurial and I just feel like that's actually so harmful because like actually my gosh I'm just realizing things in real time
So I had to undergo an ego death.
Becky Mollenkamp (21:35.874)
Yes.
Mai-kee Tsang (21:37.343)
I had made a new friend over the summer because we both signed up for a shuffle dance class. And it's the one with a lot of it's also called cutting shapes. It's basically a lot of different footwork. It's mainly a dance style that's based on footwork. And we immediately connected literally like soul friends, which is kind of like when you meet them on you feel like you've known them forever when you actually haven't at least not in this lifetime. And I am a believer of old souls. And we
got deep into conversation very quickly and then we had like an all day thing together, lunch, we met up, did Muay Thai, did gymnastics, did jujitsu, it was really a fun day. And then at dinner time, I was telling him about all of these thoughts that were swirling and then he said to me, I mean this in the nicest way possible, but is there a possibility that it's your ego?
that will be hurt if you're no longer a business owner. And I was like, bro, you got me nail on the head, which is funny because I spoke to him about him going through an ego death and I actually put words to what he was going through because he didn't know that it was a thing until I kind of like, well, this is, you know, take it or leave it. This is an insight. But I think what you're going through is an ego death. And I found it so funny that it came about full circle very soon after when we met in person.
Becky Mollenkamp (22:40.524)
Mm-hmm.
Mai-kee Tsang (23:05.849)
where he highlighted to me that perhaps this is mine, this is my ego death. And I was like, my gosh, this is so true. Yes, this is what it is, it's an ego death. And that's when I realized that, wait, who am trying to prove myself to again?
Like, and I realised I have a lot of stuff to work through, hence the therapy. And a huge part is about my worth. I've had many struggles with self-worth growing up about many things with to do with my identity. And I felt that failure is a no-no. Like you, I absolutely cannot.
And I think that was a huge thing with my parents for sure. I am an Asian after all, I'm just gonna go with the stereotype. Like A for average, B for below average, et cetera, et But all that to say that yes, I think if I were to sum it up, it was the ego death that I had to come to terms with and my cousin who I mentioned before, I realized I didn't close that loop. Yeah, so my cousin was a freelance filmmaker.
Becky Mollenkamp (23:51.406)
Yeah.
Mai-kee Tsang (24:13.013)
and he was one for 12 years and he very recently in the past three to six months got his first corporate job and he's been loving it and because we both shared that freelancer entrepreneurial lifestyle for so long obviously he went a bit further than mine but we both experienced and shared the same grievances it's that feeling of failure it's like what have I got to show for it all of that stuff but I'll tell you now that
A lot of my skills and character that I've built through owning a business is the singular reason why my current boss, my CEO, truly values me because I have the attitude of an entrepreneur, but the heart to build something beyond myself is part of the bigger community, a bigger conversation. And I never thought in my life that I would work for a charity, but...
But the thing is, I actually reached one of my goals about what I said I wanted to do with my life because I remember I had a mini mastermind that was put together around the times of the Black Lives Matter movement and one of them asked me, what do want to be doing in 10 years time? And I said, I don't know, but all I know for sure is that I want to listen to people for a living. And that is what I do.
I'm the head of the mentoring department for an LGBT charity. I listen to young adults explore their dreams, explore their struggles, and it breaks my heart that so many of them do not dare to dream because of the discrimination they face being someone in the LGBT community. And I reach people with all walks of life in many ways. And I am truly so thrilled and so proud to be a part of this movement.
And so it just kind of is interesting how it all kind of interconnects as an ego death, as an exploration of identity in a different way, being able to healthily create a divide between my work identity and my make identity. Hence the whole very beginning of this conversation. I don't know exactly what I am right now, but I am just simply a human being focused on the being less than the doing.
Becky Mollenkamp (26:13.4)
Yes.
Becky Mollenkamp (26:24.621)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (26:33.778)
Yeah. Well, and you mentioned there, and I've seen it, this sort of shaming or judgment that can happen inside the entrepreneurial space of people who go and get a nine to five, right, working for someone else, as if it is a sign of failure. And again, think so much the reason this conversation I feel like is so important is that we need to recognize that the entrepreneurial journey does not have to be, it can be a season, it can be
Mai-kee Tsang (26:41.211)
Hmm.
Mai-kee Tsang (26:49.711)
Mm-hmm.
Mai-kee Tsang (27:01.315)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (27:02.498)
amount of time, it can be for a particular journey that comes to a conclusion, right? Like these are, that's okay. It's all okay. And talking about that ego death, I think it's both ego in the sense of pride, but that ego in the sense of who you know yourself to be. Because at the beginning, as you said, like, you know, I knew myself to be this entrepreneurial, this doing, this human doing. And now I'm discovering what does it look like for me to be a human being? And while that sounds amazing, I think part of what holds people back sometimes from those kinds of decisions is
Mai-kee Tsang (27:15.907)
Mm-hmm.
Yes, huge.
Becky Mollenkamp (27:32.428)
those kinds of the death of who you know yourself to be is one of the scariest and hardest things to do. So you were going through that and finding that it's both like incredibly challenging and also rewarding. So to wrap this up, because I think we could talk forever and I love listening to you talk. As always, I just love listening to you talk. Which is why hopefully someday we'll podcast again, but it's okay if you don't.
Mai-kee Tsang (27:48.003)
absolutely, we can talk all day.
I love that too.
Becky Mollenkamp (27:57.822)
I would love to know where are you now? And again, this is messy, this is real time, and that's okay, and you don't need a perfect answer. But when you now think of how you describe yourself now, like who are you? What is your worth outside of work? What are you discovering about that?
Mai-kee Tsang (28:13.915)
Very messy middle answer. To be honest, my entire mind is occupied by... So for those of you who are watching the video version of this podcast, I have a very barren office right now and what you can see in the background is this beautiful...is it Pothos? I think it's called Devil's Ivy, right? Pothos plant is draping over my books with a very empty IKEA Kallax unit and it's because I'm in the middle of a...
complete room renovation of my office and all I can think about is turning it into a slice of the enchanted forest. I'm literally gonna make a tree, I'm putting ivy everywhere, like there are so many decorative components to it and my therapist actually helped me come to realize that I'm healing my inner child that could only...
be herself so long as it was in alignment with what other people wanted for her. And now as an adult, I am gifting myself the opportunity to heal my inner child. That's all I'm doing. I am. I am healing myself. And I gave myself the gift of space to be able to grieve Luna. And I really feel that
Like, I can't even believe that in four days time it would have been eight months since she left the physical plane. She's always here with me in spirit because I talk to her every day. And sometimes I imagine that she like, literally, I have her urn in my living room. And when I gently stroke the urn, I imagine her in heaven. She's perched on this fluffy cloud.
and she can feel my touch and I can hear her purr and I can see her in this ethereal light, it's beautiful. So I'm someone who's just learning how to be and healing the parts of me that were never tended to, were always never given the time of day and I feel that therapy is really helping with that. I yearn to be a more connected person to her family.
Mai-kee Tsang (30:31.195)
I have very much put that off for a very long time. There are many reasons for that, again, the reason why I'm in therapy, which is my tool of choice in terms of healing, by the way. Everybody has their own. I also have crystals. have a beautiful, like, witchy shelf that is arriving from Etsy that my partner's going to give to me for my anniversary. I know, because I saw the Etsy email. And a beautiful disc... Oh, yeah, absolutely. I've got...
Becky Mollenkamp (30:54.796)
No surprises in the digital age.
Mai-kee Tsang (31:00.123)
I just want to create a very much cosy haven, which has always been a part of my branding anyway. And you know what? A lot of people actually in my community, they were concerned that I was suddenly throwing away everything, that they were worried about my IP suddenly like in thin air. And I was like, no, I'm very much aware of my body of work. I have plenty of it backed up on my hard drive.
So I truly mean what I mean when I say the door may be closed but the window stays open because I have no idea what opportunity comes next. I just don't know what is next. I'm just enjoying not knowing. I remember once in a time of crisis in my previous job when literally everything was going wrong and then my boss was literally said this quote about, don't worry, we're just lost in the right direction. Which is the case, I feel lost in the best of ways.
And I know I'm going to be fine because I think if you learn anything about yourself being an entrepreneur is what you're capable of, you know? And I am so grateful for this chapter of entrepreneurship that was my main character for seven year chapters, right? And it's taught me if I really want to do something, I will do whatever I can to learn how to do it. If I can't, I'll find another way.
Becky Mollenkamp (32:10.509)
Yeah.
Mai-kee Tsang (32:30.151)
And also I'm okay with not it being perfect and that's a huge step up for me because I've been a perfectionist for as long as I can remember and I just know to get to good enough, whatever that means, for now. And there's always something better around the corner if you look for it. And so yeah, I know that I can do genuinely anything if I really wanted to or I find an alternative that I'm happy with.
Becky Mollenkamp (32:56.524)
that. Well, you found your way to a sabbatical through grief. Paige found hers through burnout. Both of you, it seems like discovered it was it was never going to be enough time. The first month was incredibly hard. Just trying to the mind. It's not enough time. Paige sort of found her way back to a modified version of what her business looked like a much reduced and modified version. You're finding your way into maybe pause pushing pause for now. I also know Chloe Wang Wu who I did an interview for this
Mai-kee Tsang (33:02.085)
Mm.
Mai-kee Tsang (33:07.086)
No.
Mai-kee Tsang (33:15.768)
Mmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (33:25.878)
series, but she does many sabbaticals. like, think it's every, yeah, and what is it every four weeks, she does a one week or something like that, right? Right? Yeah. She's amazing. She does her own version of this as well. And hers is an ongoing in order to be able to sustain the business because she's not leaving her business. So for anyone listening, the sabbatical doesn't have to be the end of a business. doesn't even have to mean the change of your business. It can though.
Mai-kee Tsang (33:28.663)
Mm-hmm, yes, dear friend of mine.
Yes, yes she does. I've been voxering her. She's been telling me about this.
Mai-kee Tsang (33:51.192)
no, absolutely not.
Becky Mollenkamp (33:54.606)
But what it's about is giving yourself spaciousness, honoring that we deserve some spaciousness in our lives for thinking, for healing, for being, as you mentioned. And I just am so grateful for you showing up even through the questioning, should I? To show people a version of what this can look like and that at the heart of it, whether it's you or Chloe or Paige, all these versions of it, that what really matters is that you gave yourself space.
that you believed you were worth giving yourself space. And I think so many of us can resonate with that feeling of like, fear of I can't, the whole world will fall apart, what will go wrong, right? And just knowing, no, any of us has that power, even if it's that modified version like Chloé's that's shorter, we deserve space. So thank you so much for sharing your story. Anything you wanna add before we go.
Mai-kee Tsang (34:46.619)
Oh well first of all thank you so much for having me. I'm so glad that this conversation became what it did and literally in real time realizations and I just want to echo kind of what you're saying but just with slightly different words I suppose. The sabbatical, like you said, it doesn't mean the end. It just provides you the space where the noise quiets down around you and you can finally hear your voice that's probably been speaking to you for a long time for what you really need to hear that you couldn't hear.
because of noise of everyday life, of what it means to run a business. So, as a practical equal space for yourself and for mine, it became healing and realising that it's okay, that my line of work in my business has become a beloved side character. Like, you know, in TV shows, there are side characters that you like more than the main character. Yeah, I think my business is basically that, it's the beloved side character.
Becky Mollenkamp (35:38.744)
for sure.
Mai-kee Tsang (35:45.083)
that you rejoice when it comes back in a chapter or two. You just don't know. And I don't know. But I do want to say this. Whilst I've closed, you know, my services are not bookable. My courses, every, every, you cannot buy anything from me at this point, right? And so I do want to say what I've decided to do with my community. So I made those announcements of what's happening. also, you know, I questioned a lot, am I allowed to keep my email community? Blah, blah, blah, blah.
learn to your people that were like, make it even if you didn't have a business, I want to stay connected to you. I want to stay following you. I just want to be a part of your world still. And that was really reassigning first of all. And what I decided to do is I just have an email community that I will email letters to as I see fit. And speaking of being and doing, so I used to run something called the coworking cove and it was literally space that I held for folks to cowork and actually want to be able to run.
genuine pop-up co-being sessions where people just come to be whatever version they need to be that day or want to be that day for X amount of time. And I'm still continuing my cup of catch-ups, which if there's a few who are listening, do not know what that is. I basically, since like 2019, I've been doing this for over five years now, I always reserved one hour every month and I split it into three 20 minute calls.
just to connect with people. There's no agenda. There is a no pitching policy. It's literally like no brain picking, nothing like that. It's literally like two people, two humans, whichever continent, whatever continent they're on, across however many oceans, or even in just the same plot of land, just nearby, I don't know. But, you know, we connect and that's it. And I'm gonna continue doing those. So they're genuine pop-ups in every sense of the word. I don't know when they're gonna happen. They just will. And that was always the nature of the Cup of Ketchup anyway. So I'm gonna do that.
for one-on-one connections, as well as my community, like, you know, the co-being sessions. And so I don't know how I'm gonna do it, but on my website, people aren't gonna see anything apart from just a sign up to join this email community for absolutely free. Everything is free. There might be a time where I ask for donations, but I don't know. I have no idea. But my point being, I am around just differently than I've been for the last seven years.
Becky Mollenkamp (38:07.744)
And I will drop the link to your website where the marketing on your email list, whatever it evolves into so that you can stay in touch with make a because she is an amazing human. So thank you so much for this, for your time and for sharing your insights and sharing what you learned about work and yourself and being. So thank you.
Mai-kee Tsang (38:10.329)
Hahaha.
Mai-kee Tsang (38:27.867)
Thank you.