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Record Live is a conversation about life, spirituality and following Jesus in the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
Help! I don_t want to go to church anymore
[00:00:00] Hi there everyone. I'm Jared. And I'm Sunita. We are your hosts of Record Live, a podcast where we talk about church faith and living well. We believe as followers of Jesus faith is more than just a set of beliefs. It's a way of life, something we'd put into practice. Let's go live.
Zanita Fletcher: Hello everyone. Welcome back to another week of Record Live. We have Megan, a returning guest with us today. Megan, thank you for coming back. Oh, thank you for having me. Now I understand Jar and Megan, you guys have been doing a little bit of talking today, so you might be a bit talked out by 4:00 PM do you wanna give us a little bit of a insight onto what you've been doing downstairs?
Megan Skene: Sure, I'll go. , Jared has very nicely, let me come down into the studio today to do a bit of podcast recording for the [00:01:00] upcoming Adventist Heritage Month. Awesome. , Which is October, . So, get King guys, , listen out for October for the podcasts. We're learning a little bit about the Adventist Pioneers.
Zanita Fletcher: Cool. And can you tell us a little bit about what your role is with Adventist heritage?
Megan Skene: Yeah, so I work for Adventist Heritage, which is a department of, the South Pacific Church. And basically we look after the archives and artifacts, , of the church, which sounds very nerdy, , but it is pretty cool.
I personally like learning about the history and, , all the people that have come before us today and, mm-hmm. Just learning about their lives and their history and all the artifacts from the South Pacific, which are pretty cool. Yeah.
Zanita Fletcher: That's super cool. Love it. Well, we have titled this week's episode Help.
I don't wanna go to church anymore, and I'm sure that most people have found themselves saying this at some point in their life. Uh, now, obviously, Megan, you are currently a church attender. Mm-hmm. , But this is kind of a phrase that I guess you also have, , related to at some point in your [00:02:00] life. Can you give us a little bit of insight into what your journey has been with church?
Megan Skene: My journey. Wow. It's been all over the place, I would say. , I grew up in the Adventist Church. , I went to Adventist school, did Pathfinders, and then, the pandemic hit and I didn't go to church anymore like everyone else. We all had church online and I quite liked doing church online. I liked watching church in my pajamas in bed.
At,, 11:00 AM on a Saturday. , But when everyone could go back to church, I didn't. I kind of fell into that routine of not going and I kind of stayed in that routine and I started to get a little bit anxious about going to church 'cause I wasn't used to it. And so I did say those words, help. I don't wanna go to church anymore, kind of.
And I had a little bit of arguments with my family over that. , And so for a few years I didn't go to church. Then I decided to go again in 2023, so two years ago I started to go back to church. I was very scared to do it, [00:03:00] and I think it's been one of the best decisions I've made.
Jarrod Stackelroth: As Anita said, Megan, a lot of us have probably had that experience where maybe it's not help.
I don't want to go to church anymore, but we've had a certain anxiety, we haven't gone for a while, or we've had health problems or even we just haven't wanted to because there's been stuff going on in our lives that makes it hard to walk through the doors to get back into the routine or, or, you know, we're struggling with something personal.
, What was it, do you think that. Made you decide to go back. What was it that was the catalyst for sort of pushing you back in that direction?
Megan Skene: See, my catalyst is kind of funny. I think it's funny. Anyway, , so for working, , in a church organization, , everyone pretty much went to church in my, , little, , work area.
And I felt guilty for not going. , People would ask me, oh, how was church this week? I kind of got sick of lying to them saying that they, I did go. So I decided to [00:04:00] go, to my home church. I decided to stick it out. I was very scared. I went with my sister, my little sister as well. And it was hard the first few weeks I think.
, But I was very blessed. The people at my church, , opened their arms. , Back up and opened, , welcomed me back into the church community and I felt right at home,. But the first month, I would say was a bit hard to get back into it.
Zanita Fletcher: Hmm. Yeah. How did you push past that discomfort? Because I feel like, a lot of people feel anxious gonna church and don't always have great experiences where they're welcomed or where they know people.
, What were some of the things you did to just like. Keep going, even though it wasn't easy.
Megan Skene: Oh, I gritted my teeth and I went into tears sometimes. I had lots of, mental breakdowns before going sometimes. , But for me, I think the night before I had planned out everything I had planned out, what I was going to wear, where I was gonna sit in church, who I was gonna talk to, [00:05:00] so I could try and eliminate any unknowns.
I'm a bit of a planner. I'm a bit of a type, a kind of person. And I think it was just perseverance, but just I guess wrestling a little bit with God as well of just praying and asking for him to help me get through this and to just, yeah, just get it done kind of
Jarrod Stackelroth: now. while some of us can relate to that, it would be interesting to hear, and you've sort of shared with me today, just , in, in a conversation before this, that, , you're at the point now where you love church, you're involved. , You said that, , every Easter, I don't know if I, if you are comfortable with me sharing this.
You said that every Easter service you cry at church because it's moving and , it's powerful for you in your life. What does that journey look like or that evolution? How did you go from gritting your teeth and getting through it to actually going, no, this is something I need in my life. I love this.
I have to be part of it.
Megan Skene: I think the relationships I [00:06:00] developed with people at church, , I have a very lovely Sabbath school at my church and there was one girl in particular who, I think within the first few weeks I went. Hosted an Easter dinner party at her house with a scavenger hunt. And I didn't know really anyone there, but I felt so touched that I was invited to something and I felt like I was part of something.
And yeah, now I love church. I think I started going for community and friendships, which I think a lot of people do go for, which I think is definitely a part of church and a blessing of it. But I think now I just go for every reason. I can't get enough of it.
Zanita Fletcher: I love that you are just absolutely frothing it.
I love it. I love of my week. It's so good. , I'd, I'd just like to shout out to anyone watching on whether it's now or later, we'd love to also hear your experiences and what questions you have around this topic, because like we said, this is something that I think a lot of people, , struggle with.
Whether it's once or twice in their life or just week after week. But I, I don't know. I know speaking from experience, and this is something [00:07:00] that maybe either of you can answer to, but I feel like often I, am conflicted on a Sabbath with should I go to church or should I just go out into nature and spend time with God on my own?
Because I feel like sometimes. Church isn't restful and I feel like sometimes it becomes a bit of like a social club versus, uh, like me spending time with God and me getting to, I don't know, grow my faith or my spiritual life in any way. And so I'm often torn with that. Like, oh, like. Do I have to, or am I supposed to be going to church every week?
Like is there any biblical, , instruction or inspiration that leads to that idea? Or is it just like a cultural thing where we've gotten into the rhythm of we must go to church every Saturday? I don't know if either of you have any, any thoughts on that?
Jarrod Stackelroth: Well, Hebrews 10 25. I just had to quickly look that up. I didn't know it off the top of my head. Hebrews 10 25. , We may have heard this first. Do not give up meeting together as some are in the habit of doing, but encourage one another. [00:08:00] The more so as you see the day approaching, , that one immediately comes to mind when you ask, like, why, why should we do church?
, For me, I guess. You know, I'm in a season of my life where I actually really look forward to. Going to church and I want to go there as often as possible. Now that's because I do wanna see my friends catch up with people. , You know, as an adult sometimes you can feel a bit lonely or separated. 'cause you know, at school you saw your friends every day.
Then when you out in the working world, you're commuting, you're doing different things, you're straight home, bedtime with the kids, the routine, you're stuck in this like cycle And Sabbath for me breaks that cycle. And church is a wonderful place to not only worship and connect with God, but connect with other people that I don't get to see during the week.
, Very much. I don't have the time or the capacity or the free time. To do that. And even if you don't have great conversations at church, 'cause you're running after kids who are climbing up the walls or, or whatever, you [00:09:00] still feel like, oh, I got to see some adults that are my friends. You know, I got to see some other people, in that space.
. And I also wanna set a good example to the kids like, Hey, we're at church regularly. Like, it's something that's an important part of our lives. We don't just do it optionally. , I think my parents really gave that to me.
. Although I have had seasons in my adult life where it's been hard to go to church, for whatever reason, my parents were at church faithfully, every single Sabbath. They were the first ones there. They were the last ones to leave. And that gave me, I think, an example of. You know, even when church was tough, there were politics at church and there were people for having falling outs and stuff.
My parents were faithful in that, and it gave me that desire and that need to go to church, that I want to set some example like that to my kids. Like, what is important to your, your mommy and daddy? You know, when someone asked my kids, it's like, I want church to be on the list. You know? I want it to be a, an important thing that they see us doing [00:10:00] as a family.
Megan Skene: No Zita, what you mentioned about how you feel conflicted of whether going to church or seeing like going outside or to see God in nature. I feel that too. Like for me, I feel God and feel his presence sometimes more when I'm in nature, but that's what I like to do. On a Saturday, I'll kind of spend my morning at church, but then in the afternoon, go to the beach, go to the mountains.
To try and get all aspects best of both worlds. I can, yeah. Best of both worlds. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome.
Jarrod Stackelroth: I'm interested , Megan, sorry., Generation Z or Z as the Americans. I think
Megan Skene: it's z generate gen. Oh, no. Yeah, gen Z.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Yeah, gen Z is, there's been commentary on social media that they are going and seeing church as a more important part than say some.
[00:11:00] Generations that have previously preceded them., There's a, a movement or an influx of Gen Z back to church. , I think that's a positive thing, but what do you think it is that's attracting your generation to actually take church seriously and to actually come back and be involved?
Megan Skene: Hmm.
Evolved. I think now more than ever, my generation is looking for identity. I think we're looking for a place to belong and we're looking for a purpose. A lot of people my age are questioning their purpose in life. , Who are they? What should they be doing? And that constant circle of just going round and round in those thoughts.
And I think for going to church, you kind of do find a sense of belonging. You find a community, you find people who are kind of like you. They think like you, they believe like you. And I think for that, you've, a lot of people call church a family. I find church as a family, and I know that sometimes like families, we don't always get along and we [00:12:00] argue, but at the end of the day, we're all together.
And so I think it's that purpose, that identity, that community is what people are searching for more now than ever. So.
Zanita Fletcher: I don't know how it is down in Sydney, but , on the Gold Coast, it's a bit of a mecca when it comes to churches. Like there are so many, and not, there's quite a few Adventist churches, but just churches in general. And while that's an awesome thing, I also seeing it being a, not a burden, but it becomes like difficult for people to, I guess, commit to one church.
Like they're constantly just like circling all the churches and trying to find a better one because they have so many options and they wanna find the perfect church. And, , the position I've kind of come to is, I don't think I'm at the perfect church, but I don't think there is a perfect church.
And you can find flaws in any of them. But I guess what is kind of like the balance of, , you wanna go to a good church? But obviously there's no perfect church. , How do we kind of find the right church for us? Or what are some things to kind of look for in when we are looking for the right church to go to
Megan Skene: looking for the right [00:13:00] church?
That's hard. Like in my life, I'm kind of in a season of church hopping. Mm-hmm. , Though I love my church and next year I will be the youth leader. So I'm kind of tied to my church, but I, I am church hopping trying to find. What else, what else is out there? But knowing that not every church is perfect, I think perfect church.
I think one that best aligns a little bit with your values. Some churches are a bit more conservative, some are a bit more progressive. I think churches, for me, I, I like to go to churches that have a lot more young people. And, , the music, I feel like you go to a church which best suits the music that you like.
Zanita Fletcher: Hmm.
Megan Skene: Actually for me, that's kind of where I base a little bit about which church I like to go to.
Zanita Fletcher: Yep. Awesome. I've heard that people have, , not love language, but like spiritual love language and for some people that's like music. , And so that might be a good thing for people to consider. Obviously yours, you connect with God a lot through music, but for some people that looks different.
And so [00:14:00] considering what your spiritual love language is might be helpful.
Megan Skene: I love that. I've never heard of that. A spiritual love language. Look, we need like a little test to do that, to see what everyone is. I think there is one. Yeah. Oh, I'll have to Google it later.
Jarrod Stackelroth: No, it's very cool. , Just on your questions, Anita, it got me thinking as well.
, I had a , season of church hopping, I guess you could call it, and I felt like. It was very easy to bump in and bump out before and after the sermon and not stay for Sabbath school, not stay for lunch, not stay for any of the other things. , Even if we were invited, it was sort of hard to then connect with anyone.
And so in some ways we were falling into that trap of consumerism, like even the co the question of how do you find a good church? Maybe that's a flawed question. I'm just challenging your question a little bit. Sure. , There's the opportunity for us to, yes, find a church that suits our needs and helps us to [00:15:00] grow spiritually.
I think that is important if we're growing spiritually or we're connected. , But just as important is those loving relationships. You know, finding a church that, , well first of all, you don't go to a church that's toxic. Or that's selling bad theology or that's,, , spiritually or emotionally, mentally, in any way abusing people.
Like, that's, that's, bottom line stuff. , And so some people find themselves in church situations that are really unhealthy and difficult for them, and they need to probably find another church, but then at the same time. There's value for people. And sometimes people in more rural areas, they only have one option, so they have to stick it out.
They have to make the church better by their own presence, rather than going, oh, I'll just go to the one, you know, just down the road. And so in big cities, yes, we're a little bit spoiled for choice. Like I myself fall into that trap. I probably drive past three or four churches to get to my current,, home church, because it.
It serves our kids well. It's got good programs, [00:16:00] adventurers and Sabbath schools and things for the kids. And that's really important for us to see our kids, you know, grow up in the faith and , to have that experience, that learning, that good foundation. But at the same time, like a church is what we make it.
'cause we are the church. You know, we can't just consume church and go, well what's the best church? What's the music I like? , There's probably people at my church that. The music is sometimes a bit more contemporary, et cetera, and it might not really be their jam, their style, but there is a danger of becoming like an echo chamber in a local church where everyone likes the same music, everyone dresses the same, talks the same, thinks the same, and then you don't have the older generations or the different generations who they may not like the music, but we need their wisdom.
We need their. Life experience. We need that intergenerational connection,. And so for me, I think what you look for in a church, if I could encourage our viewers, you know, , on this, it's like, do the people there love each other and [00:17:00] love God? That's the bottom line. And then anything else is sort of.
Nice. It's great if, if it suits your needs and it's what you like, but even if it's not, sometimes that church can get value because you're there and because you're involved. Yeah. When I, when I church hopped, I wasn't involved and my spiritual walk suffered because I wasn't serving anyone. I wasn't uncomfortable.
You know, we don't like everyone at church. We don't get along with them. We might not associate them, and yet church glues us together. In a sense, it forces us to come together and it's healthy for us to meet other people that are very diverse and different for us, that have different tastes, that have different opinions.
I think it grows us as people and as Christians to, to experience that. So there, there's my 2 cents on that question.
Zanita Fletcher: Probably for most of history as well, people have only had the option of one church because they haven't had cars. Whereas today, like you said, Jared. We'll drive [00:18:00] half an hour and we'll pass five churches on the way.
And I think that's also sometimes to our detriment because, , you know, there's always gonna be like conflicts arising at a church, but I think sometimes it's like, are we like just jumping ship when things get difficult or are we like wrestling through those things and like working through those things with other people and giving people grace and forgiving them and, , treating them like our brothers and sisters.
Or are we just fleeing when things get hard? ,
Jarrod Stackelroth: Yeah. The other, the other aspect to that Zanita, and yes, it, we grow through challenge and through trial in the local church. At the same time, we, we take the church out of the community because we don't live in the community that our church is in. So it's like how do we invite people to church?
How do we get our neighbors to come to church? 'cause they don't wanna drive half an hour like we do. They want something in their neighborhood, they want something convenient. And so we've divorced the church from the village that we live in. It's no [00:19:00] longer in our village, in our suburb, in our region.
It's across town or it's a decent drive away. And so that, I think that is somewhere the local church needs to think about how do we engage with our community? Better.
Zanita Fletcher: Hmm.
I had love to hear from you, Megan. for those people who are at church and who are wanting to see more people come to their church, what are some ways in which they can be more welcoming and accepting and inviting of people?
Megan Skene: Ooh, that's a good question. 'cause I kind of struggle with that. Like, I want my church to grow more and more.
. I don't know. I think start inviting your friends, people that you already have a connection with, and they may feel comfortable going. , I think I read a study somewhere, , that people are more likely to go to church if they're invited by a friend than just attending by themselves. , Yeah, sorry. I think yeah, inviting.
I think starting just , that conversation as well. , Be it in your workplace, at your uni, at your school. Just let people [00:20:00] know that you go to church and that it's a great time and maybe they might wanna come along and see what it's all about.
Zanita Fletcher: Yeah, I think a lot of people shy away from that. They're like, oh, what you do on the weekend?
And they just don't mention it. But I found when I have been bold and actually said it, people are like, oh, you go to church, what's that like? Or whatever,
Megan Skene: and it starts that open conversation. And if you can get people interested in it, then that's a win. Yeah. Love it.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Got a good comment here from Edgardo.
I don't know, it's quite long, so I don't think it all fits on the screen there, but, , it looks like my brother Edgardo has been on a bit of a journey, struggling to find the right church, , and believed it wasn't necessary, but now realizing the benefits of belonging to a church, , even Jesus surrounded himself with disciples.
Isolation makes you weak. Community makes you strong. I think that's a. A really good point. and yeah, thank you for commenting all those that are, , Megan, you know, how do we be more welcoming to people who are suffering that anxiety to come in, what do we do in our [00:21:00] churches to make them. More welcoming, more open, more inviting you.
You said it was funny how you shared how you were invited to church in a almost a backwards way, like you were guilted into like you thought everyone's doing it, so I'm peer pressured, I should be at the church, you know? Mm-hmm. on, on the flip, and yet when people, we invite them, they actually do come sometimes.
So, but how do we then receive them? Well, how do we then become that community that. Will be a safe place for them to land and a safe place for them to connect.
Megan Skene: I think, yeah, to be welcoming I feel like is literally just to be welcoming. 'cause I've been going church hopping lately. I've been kind of subconsciously, and maybe not subconsciously cr criticizing the churches that I go to and kind of rating them and being like how inviting they were.
How many people came up to me and said, hello? Hmm, and it, I've noticed that some churches are more welcoming than others, and I am more likely to go to those churches where people came up and said, hi, where the pastor came up [00:22:00] and said, hi, where people recognize that I was a new face, went out of their way to say hello to tell me all that they have at their church, all the programs they have.
But then you do go to some churches and you go in. And it's like no one has noticed that you came in kind of, and I think some of us are all guilty of that sometimes of not being super welcoming, where if we've had a rough week, we just wanna get to church, sit in our same spot. We've always sat in, chat to the same people, get in and get out.
And I think, yeah, if we want to see change, we kind of need to be the change and we sometimes have to step out of our comfort zones. If we're able to and feel comfortable enough to kind of do that, and I think we can help those who need a little bit more welcoming into the church. So, Hmm. I think it goes, there was, the comment that you just had on the screen, Jared, there was a part the end that you didn't read out, which said, , yeah, don't just go to church, be the church.
And I love that ' cause church isn't always a building. , Jesus says in the Bible where two or more gathered, he is there. And I think if we can embody the [00:23:00] church spirit, I think more people will want to come to church or even stay at the church as well.
Zanita Fletcher: Yeah, I guess on talking about like that idea of what does it look like to be the church, I know, um, I went through a season of not going to church as well, and I felt, , quite hurt by the little, , effort that was like made in like reaching out to me during that period.
, So what does it look like for like, you know, I think often, you know, Jared, you talked about before you go to church and you see these people and often we do lead busy lives. It's where we just see people on Saturday and we don't really see them throughout the week, but how can we, I guess, be more supportive in people's lives when, , they have left the church and we are no longer seeing the mayor.
Like instead of, you know, Megan, you said that you kind of started coming back because you've started feeling guilty because people were asking you, but how can we be the church for those people who are no longer attending or who are in a season of really struggling to go to church? I think not
Megan Skene: being judgmental.
I think that's a big thing, not being judgemental, still [00:24:00] being a friend, keeping that channel for open conversation and dialogue and just still sending a text every now and again of, Hey, how was your week? Or How are you going? Or even sending like a Happy Sabbath text. I guess people just like to know that there are still people out there thinking of them.
, Yeah.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Yeah, I invited a friend to church the other week and some other people at church know that particular person and they said to me, oh, it was really good to see him at church. Today And I said, yeah, I just asked him 'cause haven't seen him, you know? , , and, and they had been, you know, working alongside or colleagues of and, and had interacted with , and yet hadn't necessarily made that invitation.
So I think we forget sometimes to reach out or to be that person, to give someone a call, to give them a text, to say, Hey, how's it going? We've. We always like to get practical on record live, and that's often where we finish. But just before we finish, Megan, mm-hmm. , We've done a lot of practical stuff.
We've had [00:25:00] practical questions. How can we be the church? How do we engage, et cetera. I'd just like to give you,, this question. About your own personal faith, like you've talked a little bit about connection and going to church for friends and how it's become a really important part of your life.
But I'd really like to hear just, I guess, more personally, what has. Coming back to church, but your whole spiritual journey, sort of how has it grown and, and changed do you think, since you made that decision to start coming back to church and, and it seems to me, you know, in our conversations together, church is important to you now it's a.
Big part of your life, , your relationship with Jesus, your relationship with the church in terms of negativity or positivity towards just Christianity or towards the Adventist Church, towards, , you're working in the heritage space, dealing with people with LMY and going through Sunnyside and giving tours and things like that.
So you're coming up against faith, , challenging questions in your work and in your life. Like, [00:26:00] what does your personal faith look like because you've now got church as a, as a key part of. Now,
Megan Skene: what does my personal faith look like? , That's a big question. , It's definitely gotten better, I dunno how to say it better, but coming back to church, I think my life has just gotten so much better, like spiritually, mentally, , and.
You know, church, it's there for us to rest. I think church, we gotta remember, it's on the Sabbath. It's there for us to rest. And now I can come to church and I can praise God, I can chat to my friends. I can have a bit of a reset. And for me, keeping that routine, I think has been one of the best things for my mental health and for my spiritual health.
It's just blossomed, I think. I think for me, coming back to church. Has been one of the best decisions I've made in a very long time, and it is very scary and daunting doing it. But I would encourage everyone to [00:27:00] stick through it. Yeah, I feel like I didn't answer your question. It was so loaded.
Zanita Fletcher: No, that was good. I feel like you've promo it quite well.
Jarrod Stackelroth: It's great. I, I think, and we should all go to church, obviously, and I hope that,, we can all be the church for people. , Thank you, Carl, for your comment as well. I just wanted to reflect on, yeah, maybe it's a bit of a Australian problem that we're talking about today, , throughout our Pacific Islands, you know.
The village and the church and the family and the culture and the community is much more interconnected and in some ways it's much more, . It's a passion. You know, you can see the dedication of the people to church because it's a big part of life. In the west here, we've somewhat separated church off to the sidelines.
, We are Seventh Day Adventist instead of seven Days Adventists every day being Adventist, you know, in our communities. And so that's definitely something we can learn from [00:28:00] around the South Pacific. , And some of the influences there that we have in our. Beautiful part of the world. , Megan, I wanna thank you for joining us.
You know, it can be daunting to talk about your, your faith, even some of the ups and downs of your spiritual journey , and your church attendance, et cetera. , I think it's been a stimulating conversation. I hope that people have, , you know, reassessed their own church attendance, not just mm-hmm.
Be at church, but to be the church and to do church in life as part of an integrated part of their lives. , Is there anything you'd like to leave us with, any sort of encouragement or final thought that would just like seal the deal for us today?
Megan Skene: Encourage and final thoughts. This is probably such like a odd turn as an encouraging final thought, but I read this on Instagram somewhere where they said,, if you go to Mac's and they stuff up your order.
You don't swear off Macs forever, you still keep going back. But why do we do that for the church? They make one mistake [00:29:00] and we swear it off completely. I think we need to keep giving things a go and I think we need to keep persevering. Sometimes we need to grit our teeth, get through it. And I think for us who do go to church already, , I think we need to be a little bit more welcoming and a little bit more observant of those in our community.
And think about how much better can we represent the church? , And keep that idea that church is not always a building, church is a community. And , how better can we be the church? So
Zanita Fletcher: yeah, love it. Be the change you wanna see is what comes to mind when you say that. Mm. Awesome. Well, thank you Megan, again, so much for joining us on Record Live this week.
It's been great to, yeah, just hear your thoughts and your experiences and thank you everyone for Yeah, joining in the conversation.