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CJ & The Duke speak with our special guest, Deb Quinton, about her experiences as a customer on a large new ServiceNow deployment. In this episode we discuss what she wished ServiceNow implementation partners knew, different kinds of value, what keeps her up at night, what victories ServiceNow achieved, where to find talent, and experiences with "Frarchitects"
Authentic, Authoritative, Unapologetic ServiceNow commentary by Cory "CJ" Wesley and Robert "The Duke" Fedoruk
[00:00:00] Duke: . Hey, everyone. Welcome to another episode of CJ and the duke as always. I am your co-host Robert, the duke Frederick.
[00:00:06] CJ: And I am quarry CJ.
[00:00:08] Duke: We have a very special perspectives episode, CJ and I have been making all this talk about good architecture and outcomes and things to avoid, and why, because we want our service now implementations to provide value and deliver that value over a long period of time.
Now we brought you some perspectives from folks on the deployment side, but how about, you know, like maybe an actual customer perspective for. What do you think about that?
[00:00:37] CJ: This is revolutionary, right? I mean, we've never done this before. And I think as well, long overdue, , why not get the customer on the show and tell us about all the things that we think we know
[00:00:49] Duke: That's right. All right. So let us introduce to you drum roll, please. Put a little
[00:00:55] CJ: you.
[00:00:55] Duke: roll and put it. I'll put, I'll put a sound file on there. Quinten
[00:01:02] Deb: Hi guys. Thank you so much for having me.
[00:01:05] Duke: is our pleasure, Deb, how are you doing today?
[00:01:08] Deb: Oh, great. I'm Great.
It's a Friday after.
[00:01:11] CJ: Can't beat that.
Well, I have just want to thank you for coming out and agreeing to talk with us live and on air. About, you know, all things service. Now we really do appreciate it. And hopefully I think our audience will as well. I mean, I think there's a lot of value in speaking to.
[00:01:26] Deb: Well, thank you. And I, really appreciate you having me. , Robert and I have been working together for a while and, , we've done some really great stuff and I've enjoyed listening to the work that you both have done on this podcast. So I'm really excited to. be able. Share, whatever there is that I can share with your audience so that we can all have better implementations and, long-term success with service now,
[00:01:48] CJ: Oh, that's the holy grail. Isn't it.
[00:01:50] Deb: right?
[00:01:50] Duke: yeah. Oh yeah. It's why we wake up in the morning. It's why on a Friday we're still like big wide eyed, bushy tail talking about service now. Um,
[00:01:58] CJ: I
[00:01:58] Deb: That and coffee
[00:01:59] CJ: off.
[00:02:00] Deb: and
[00:02:00] Duke: that in coffee. Yeah. And bourbon and coffee. Uh, all right, so let's just kick it off here and we'll just start right off the top. What do you wish service now?
Implementation partners knew about implementations.
[00:02:18] Deb: , I have several things that I wish service now. partners knew about implementations.
one of the things that, , I think is most important is that we as customers, we know our organization, , sometimes that gets lost and we get into a bit of a battle of, , you know, it's like the chocolate and the peanut butter.
The platform and the organization and the platform and the organization, we both bring our respective expertise to the table and melding them together as how we get that Reese's peanut butter cup. Right? So we are the experts in our organization and, I wish that there was often a little bit more trust, , that we know what's gonna work and what's not gonna work.
[00:02:57] CJ: I like that. Let's dig in on that a little bit. So a couple of things there, right? Like you're absolutely right. You guys are the experts on your organization and we should be taking the lead from you. And. How things are going to. mesh that we're building, how they're going to mesh in your environment and what's going to be , the potential uptake in certain features in certain ways that we're developing things which, kind of lends itself towards the, topic of organizational change management, which is something that we've hit on here for maybe uh, few of the last episodes that we've recorded and the topic that I, I don't think gets a, nearly enough, We're starting to do it and the implementation, right.
[00:03:36] Deb: I agree. Organizational change management can be a big, like, you know, it can be an acronym, but what that really means is, is very different for each organization. And that's something that we definitely bumped into our first implementation project. , we used one of the big partners and when we got to the, And you can't see me doing air quotes, but I, I am organizational change management section.
The things that, they showed us were so rudimentary. Number one, number two, they weren't even remotely applicable to our organization and they just weren't really very valuable. we spent a lot of time. I spent a lot of time convincing them that they're. You know, whatever their trademarks, organizational change management process, wasn't really what we needed.
it didn't hit the mark. I know our organization, I personally was the one that pitched our organization to buy service now to begin with, I know better how we're going to make this fly at our organization than big box implements or consulting for. X knows. so I wish that there was a true sense of the partnership going the other way.
, and that, that trust in us knowing what it is that we're doing.
[00:04:59] Duke: you sense that it was like a little bit of autopilot? oh, we do this dozens of times a month, then we know all the best practices, air quotes. Um, and it's like, they hear you, but is that reaching the heart versus the brain?
[00:05:13] Deb: Yeah, I think it was, , quite a bit of autopilot , to the power of a little bit of where the experts and that is absolutely true. They are the service now experts, but they're not the actual. In my organization. And, also typically the people who were going to be your main kind of customer stakeholder, the equivalent of me in the organization, this is not my first application implementation.
It's not even my fifth, my 10th or my 15th. Like we have been through these before we know what works, we know. What works in our organization or in other organizations that we've worked with other platforms with other vendors, with our products. We're not new to this world. We're just new to service now.
So it's that, there's also an air of, we're the experts in the entire implementation, not just the service now.
[00:06:03] CJ: Uh, huh. You know, it's interesting that, um, so you said a few things in that that I find really, really interesting. , probably one of the biggest things you said is that you spent a lot of time convincing them of these facts. Like that to me is just mind blowing, you know, when you, because you're the client, right?
Like, you hired them. So, I would think that they would be looking to take direction from you versus. The other way around. , I remember my, when I back when, when I was a customer and you know, I was dealing with a partner and he came in and I tell them, look, this is the way this organization functions.
You don't get to talk to anybody above my boss because they don't want to talk.
[00:06:46] Deb: Yeah.
[00:06:48] CJ: and they bought in, right. And we got things done. And I think after the first time they saw how things work and that, my word was good and my bosses were, was good. Like they just kind of settled in and was like, all right, you guys are riding, you run in a show, we're just gonna go along.
So it's interesting that, you have to spend so much time trying to get them to the point of actually listening to you so that they can actually create the value for you, that you hired them.
[00:07:10] Deb: Yeah. And I think the idea of value. Is a little different in every organization. Right. And I think that there's a tendency for people to try to reduce value down to like just dollars and cents.
[00:07:23] CJ: Um,
[00:07:24] Deb: Of course the money matters. Right. it's not all just money right. In our organization. And we're, a non-profit healthcare provider organization, large organization.
We've got. 16,000 employees and, we're big company. but for us, it's about patient safety matters way more than saving $27. So if we can draw a line to patient outcomes from what we're doing, that's gonna every single time matter more than the, dollars and cents value. And it's. I don't know, convince, some of these partners about where our value lies, right.
Because everyone wants to use their own definition of what value means.
[00:08:04] Duke: Corey, I feel like we should just insert the entire last episode right here.
[00:08:09] Deb: really?
[00:08:11] Duke: Cause we were talking about what are the outcomes? And it sounds to me like maybe you weren't asked
[00:08:18] CJ: right.
[00:08:19] Duke: outcomes? And like, don't worry. You're not alone.
I'm finally understanding that expression missing the forest through the trees. Cause it's like the point isn't to implement incident management really. Right. The point
[00:08:31] Deb: a little.
[00:08:31] Duke: yeah. The point is to, and another shout out to Paul Rice for that quote of his imagine if I was just buying outcomes and not a product, what outcomes would those be?
[00:08:41] Deb: Right. And I remember saying at one point, , and Robert, I think you might've actually been on this call. I was like, I feel like this is just a project to close redact. I don't know what, like what do I do to go back to the organization and say, well, we don't have any actual workflows to show you or, or anything in the system done, but we closed 27 red ax.
Do you, how do you think that's
[00:09:04] Duke: the record keeping kind of takes a life of its own. Right.
[00:09:06] Deb: Right. It's crazy.
[00:09:08] Duke: So this is a tangent question. This wasn't on the list that we all talked about, but there is a tension in the ecosystem because on Corey and I's side, it's gosh, how do I convince this customer? this is totally the wrong idea.
Or at least your intent is fewer. We understand the outcomes that you want, but what you're asking us to do is suicidal. , so I wonder if you have any interesting perspectives on how vendor might know the difference between somebody who has been trial tested and understands exactly what they want and how to.
And the kind of customer that needs them to intervene and say you want to do it our way, not the way you're thinking. Is that question even make sense?
[00:09:49] Deb: I think so. Though, I think it comes down to what Corey said a couple of minutes ago. Did anyone ask me, Right. Like, are the partners asking and having real conversations and listening to the responses And, asking the customers like, well, is this, your first major enterprise platform integration?
If the answer is yes, well then that customer stakeholders. need a little bit more handholding. I think it's unlikely that an organization is going to make an investment, the size of service now, and, put somebody at the helm. Who's going to cut their teeth on this kind of a project that seems a little bit risky, but I'm sure it could happen. you would want to know, that, but I don't think you should assume that. I think you should assume that , knowing the size of the investment that is service now, the stakeholder has liked. Done a couple of these before, and probably has some good experiences, some bad experiences, but some experiences that they're bringing to the table for this one.
[00:10:45] CJ: and, good experiences or bad experiences. They're both really relative. Um, because I find, I learned a lot more , from my failures than I do from my successes. So I definitely want someone who's had some bad experiences within enterprise, product, implementations to bring that to the forefront, right.
So we can know what to avoid. Maybe some of those things were, would be in line with our best practices. And we have to talk through it a little bit in order to kind of maneuver. That situation through, or maybe we need to remove it and do something a different way, just because just so it doesn't trigger, right?
Like any of those bad feelings, because , sometimes it's not about the results. Sometimes it's about the perception alone.
[00:11:24] Deb: Yeah, I think that would be a really great question for, client interviews. Maybe don't start just with, okay. How do you do incidents, maybe start with, tell us about some of the implementations that you've had before that have gone really wrong and what went wrong about them. You're going to learn a lot.
If you get a really good answer to that question.
[00:11:44] CJ: Damn, let me tell you that. But like, I mean, mind blown right there. That is, that is like, I mean, it seems, it's just sounds so simple on the surface, but there's so much insight.
[00:11:54] Duke: Deb nobody's name and names here. Right. But. Is that one of the questions they asked you? It's like, how do you do incident management?
it's funny, like we just go back to outcomes again. It's like, why would we want to know, like, clearly we want to save the stuff that works, but isn't the best question? what do you need to get out of this? Versus like start off on the assumptive foot that we need to rebuild what you've got in service now.
So it's great. We've got the same thing. It's just, quarter million dollars more spend
[00:12:21] Deb: Yeah, you know what, there was a forest and trees. Like, I think that's a great analogy, but, , the one that I like to think of when I, when I think back on that time in my life and that implementation is, you know, it was like I had hired somebody to build me a house and. The kinds of conversations that I expect to have.
If I'm paying someone to build me a house, are things like, well, how many bedrooms do you need? And how many bathrooms do you need? Those sorts of things? I would expect to be able to say something like I need a second full suite because I have my, mother who's, getting older and she lives with us.
So we need a space for her to live and Right.
I would expect to have those kinds of conversations. What I don't expect to have our conversations about what type of plumbing they want me to put in the bathroom. I don't know the kind that has water that flows through it. And from it, , the kind that, maybe looks pretty, but I don't know the different kinds of plumbing and, and I honestly don't care as long as they work.
And so I feel like in that implementation, we never got to that level of, I need a separate full suite for my mother because she lives with me. Do you want a house with four walls? Well, of course I want a house with, with four, our exterior walls. I don't want one with five. I want one with exterior walls.
Okay. And then what kind of plumbing do you want? Like we never got at that right level. We, it was always either way too high and an elementary were way too in the weeds that I have no idea how this works. This system is new to me. I don't, I need you to tell me how it works so that I can make some decisions.
[00:13:55] CJ: Right.
[00:13:56] Duke: did you find that there was one process where that was harder in particular? Or was it the whole.
[00:14:00] Deb: I think it varied whether or not we were too high up or too far down by process. , for sure. Organizational change management was just up in the clouds. , similarly with like our, portal developments are customer portal, request management. I don't think they ever really told me how it worked.
I think, I think. We're finally the one that explained what a read them. Um,
[00:14:23] Duke: let's not go back and see our Christmas wishlist to see when Cory and I think about rhythms requests, SC tasks.
[00:14:33] Deb: Well, I mean, but still , if you're an expert. I mean, you guys obviously are, but if, if this implementation partners an expert, they should come in going every single one of our clients has a hard time wrapping their head around this request management process. We're going to start there and really we're going to do a deep dive and we're going to make sure that they can speak , the rhythm se task requests, you know, in all the different lists that they know what those are and that they understand them to begin with.
We're going to, we're going to get that out of the way first, but they, they really never did that. And they kind of a pay, no attention to the man behind the counter. Approach. Like, it'll just work. It'll just work. I'm like, but I need, it needs to kind of know how it works. Like I need that second, that second full suite.
And it has to be on the, you know, on the main floor, it'll just work. And then when we moved into the house, there was no, you know, there's just another bedroom and it was upstairs and it didn't have a bathroom. Right. So, but then when we got to the like, CMDB, oh my goodness. were like, not only just in the plumbing. we were, it was,
[00:15:38] Duke: you were in the plumbing.
[00:15:39] Deb: I was in the plumbing.
They were at, they like handed me at torch and we're like, I'm going to need you to weld
[00:15:44] Duke: Got me out of here.
[00:15:48] Deb: You don't want me welding anything? So it was a little bit of whiplash going from, too high, too low, too high, too low. When I, what I really just wanted to tell them , and what I wanted to learn was how is this system going to help make all of these processes better and take away a lot of the headaches that I have.
[00:16:10] Duke: speaking of headaches, it's 20 minutes in. We'll go to question two.
[00:16:14] Deb: Oh, sorry.
[00:16:18] Duke: Um, now this is what we like. We like it. We like to flow nicely. , but speaking of headaches, what keeps you up about your current service now? Implementation? What keeps you.
[00:16:28] Deb: Honestly, What keeps me up at night is talent and getting the right talent on the. Uh, you know, you guys know, and I see that you're you do a lot of discussions. I know you had a recruiter on, and you were talking about the whole talent and the ecosystem, and it's from our perspective, it keeps me up at night as well.
, you. know, we recently have made the investment to add FTEs, to be able to build out our team.
[00:16:55] Duke: you want to just shout out what you need right now? And our audience will be funny.
[00:16:58] Deb: Yes. , I am looking for a senior developer and, , definitely three, , staff level developers for service. Now we are it S M ITBM and I T O M. , we are located in the U S and are only able to employ folks who are located in the U S , but I can consider folks who, who need to be remote as long as it's remote from somewhere. the United States. So, , You know, for our senior person, we're looking for someone, who's got some, real solid experience in the service now space. And then for our, , applicant for our staff level developers, we will happily take someone who is a little bit greener, , who would like to learn and grow with us.
We're a great organization. We have. I mean, don't take my word for it, but Robert you've met the team. We have a real great, team culture. We'd love to have some folks come on board with us, but that's, honestly, that's what keeps me up at night.
[00:17:54] CJ: that's really interesting because I have a couple of clients right now who are saying largely the same thing. Talent keeps them up at night as well. And talent is the main roadblock that they're having right now in terms of achieving the velocity that they want in order to. To really work through their backlog and on to their roadmap.
So it's interesting that, duke and I talk about this a lot, right. In terms of like talent, talent, talent, and skilling up and such, but you know, it was really, really nice to hear , from your perspective, Deb, on how, that's still like one of the main pressing issues for you.
[00:18:30] Deb: Yeah. I mean, just remember that, whoever it was that convinced. An organization to make this investment made a lot of promises. And I personally can't make any of them happen. So, I need to have a team. We need to be able to have the right mix of, talent, the right mix of personality, the right mix of, , you know, just sort of skillset to be able to, make all of this happen and to deliver on that, value that we promised we'd give to the organism.
[00:19:00] CJ: Are you saying that the issue is finding talent or are you seeing that the issue is finding talent in a, price range that your organization as willing.
[00:19:09] Deb: Um, I think we probably have a couple of things. So first of all, we just converted these to FTEs and posted them. , I think this week, so. I'm hopeful that , my worry is going to bear out to not really be a problem, and that we're going to find all sorts of talent. It's going to be, it's going to be fantastic.
However, , I have heard that there are a lot of really talented folks who want to stay in the consulting world, who aren't interested in taking a full-time. For reasons, reasons that make sense and reasons that I have, you know, they're, they're personal and, and completely valid. , but for us, we are looking to grow the team with employees.
So that kind of changes who we're looking at. , We have identified, , one person so far, but we're, we're always looking for other folks internally who would like to train up, folks that we can pull either from our service desk or from elsewhere within the organization, that we can train up to.
Service now we're, we're happy to spend that kind of money to make sure that we're, we're getting folks trained and giving them a chance to learn. but we, really also w we don't want an entire team of, brand new folks who have only ever learned this in a classroom environment. I would like some folks who have had some experience before, again, as a. an employer looking to employ folks, I don't believe that I'm going to be able to offer exactly the same kind of hourly rates that folks are making as contractors, but we offer, we take on the burden of, benefits and you know, all of those other items that as a contractor, You guys have to take on yourself.
So, it's kind of a blend and I think we're just looking at who's out there and who wants to actually be an employee. I, I would love your guys' thoughts on where do you think that if you look at the whole service now, ecosystem of developer talent, would you say most people want to be contractors and kind of live the freelance life or are a lot of folks looking to kind of settle down and.
be somewhere for a bit.
[00:21:10] CJ: What do you think about that one too?
[00:21:11] Duke: , I think a lot of people want to be about that life. Hey Cory, like just everybody think, oh, put a few years in and I'll go out I'll be an independent contractor and, and just clean house, but I think. A, they don't realize how much work it is. Like it's not just, I fill up a 40 hour week with con with consult time and dollars and money.
Right? Like it is literally feast and famine. Some weeks I'll have 20 hours. Some weeks I'll have 60, 80, whatever. and it's tough because. You got to eat and fish at the same time.
[00:21:43] CJ: Yeah.
[00:21:44] Duke: Um,
[00:21:45] Deb: Right.
[00:21:46] CJ: that's a good point.
[00:21:46] Duke: and so I think, there's way more people who think they're there about that life then can actually pull it off and the demand for service now continues to grow, but the market is also growing very raw.
Like the, the set of people who can do service now is just, that has grown explosively too. So, I don't think just going indie and saying, I know service now cuts it anymore. I don't think it does. And so I think it's getting easier, at least for employers to, get people on salary salary.
I mean, remember Corey time was salary. How quaint?
[00:22:28] CJ: Yeah, indeed.
[00:22:30] Duke: Yeah, I think your biggest competition right now is partners. Three partners are vacuuming, mail up with all the credible people and they're offering, you know, decent salaries because these people are building like crazy. ,
[00:22:42] Deb: Well, any tips,
[00:22:42] Duke: to rent there, but.
[00:22:43] Deb: how could we, how can I be competitive
[00:22:46] Duke: Well, I mean compete in other ways, you know, and I would say there's probably a lot of people who are sick to death of being at a partner. You know what I mean? and maybe, maybe they like to see if the things that they advise on can actually survive more than three.
[00:23:02] Deb: Right.
[00:23:03] Duke: and maybe they just want a home.
Maybe they don't want, I mean, we travel isn't a thing anymore, but, it wears a little bit on this. I mean, remember during our implementation and there was the architect that you was supposed to be like the chief architect from the, partner, but you got like two hours of her a week.
[00:23:19] Deb: Yeah.
[00:23:19] Duke: Imagine if you're doing like 20 customers at two hours.
[00:23:23] Deb: I remember, she seemed like she was a always working be incredibly stressed and C just a little bit unhappy, like as a, you know, she was great. , I thought she was fantastic and she was always super pleasant, but it seemed like an element of, oh my goodness number one.
I never get to see anything complete , and I'm always pulled in a hundred different directions. And then I feel like I can't do anything well,
[00:23:49] Duke: Yeah. So there's that. And then there's also the up and comers, right? they don't have service now architect on their resume now, or senior developer on their resume now, but they're that junior developer who's putting their time and just haven't been promoted up and they're waiting for a chance to just come out.
You know, that was me back in 2013 with high hotels. I was like, I was like a service now. Admin was my job title, and then I just waltzed into service now architect
[00:24:13] Deb: Yeah.
[00:24:14] Duke: the next day. So compete that way.
[00:24:15] Deb: Okay.
[00:24:17] CJ: I would agree with that as well. so if you're looking for someone like me and you want to get me, to come on and take salary, it's all about the next level for me. Right? Like it's all about, how do I solve these problems?
Do you have cool problems to solve? do I get to see these things live on? Like, you said, I do two or three months after, you know, do I get to see the long-term life cycle of, of how the solutions that I build hang out in your environment , and take on a life and solve these problems that I actually started on.
and that sense of ownership of the instance as well, right? basically a different level of fulfillment. You know, so I think those are some of the things that you can tap into as well, you know, by turning it into something that's a little more appealing than just, you know, a set of stories and tasks and providing a sense of ownership.
[00:25:01] Deb: Okay.
[00:25:02] Duke: I want to change tone a little bit, because I don't want to seem like it's all dark and gloomy because we used a partner, blah, blah. Okay, cool. Corey and I are always careful to say this show is not anti partner. , it's just trying to make everybody better, including us. Uh, so I was wondering if you could describe Deb, what was one of the major victories?
implementing service now, what's the thing you're most proud of. What's the one that makes your organization just to sit back and go, ah, nice.
[00:25:29] Deb: do. I want to say this. The table stakes, right? Like the basic core functionality that w and we replaced an, an old system that I don't even know if it's still around. And I won't mention what it is, but just the very basic functionality, the basic ITFM functionality, how much simpler it is to do all of that now That was really the big that got everybody to kind of exhale on, Oh, what's this going to look like? This was a lot of money and is this really going to be worth it? Just getting that very basic functionality. And that's actually what I'm hearing the most from the it team or what I heard the most a year ago from the it team is my goodness.
This is so much easier than you may just have to click and I can just see it. And it was so much easier than. The way it was. I know that that's not like glamorous and that's not that big picture sort of big story presents at a conference kind of win. But for us, that was a huge win because we didn't realize how bad it was in the old system.
So bringing it up and modernizing, it was, a huge win. Also being able to have real time. Performance analytics and how quickly we were able to spin up performance analytics was also a huge win for us. Just being able to see what was out of the box. and just that there was information there and that it was trending and actual metrics, not just data points.
those were, I think the two biggest wins that we had right off the bat. And then we've gone on to do other reasons. Cool things that we never would've been able to do. things that really tie into, again, our organizational mission. So not to go too deep into the healthcare or epic world. But one of the big initiatives that we had recently was a function in epic.
That's called Rover, which allows your nurses to, in an inpatient hospital to carry around, , an iOS device, an iPhone. And they use that iOS device to do all sorts of cool things in epic, which is, an epic function, right. So they can scan the barcodes on the patient. Scan the barcode on the med. When they're giving a med, they can use the iPhone to do their documentation, all of this through epic.
Well, our big win was we were able to plop the service now app on that same Rover device. And so. Now on that device that they're using to do all of their patient care. If something's broken in, a room or something's broken out on the floor, they have the service now app available to them and they can just do that from their Rover device.
That was like mind blown. No, it, it was so cool. so that we were able to dovetail into the organization, providing cool technology for the clinicians and we just sort of snuck a little service now.
[00:28:10] CJ: that's pretty awesome, honestly, that is, present at knowledge. Awesome. In my opinion, um,
[00:28:17] Duke: I would not hesitate Deb. I would totally put that in as an abstract and present it in all.
[00:28:22] Deb: wow.
[00:28:23] Duke: and the reason is, we've heard it every year for years, but more recently, I feel like service has really putting its money where its mouth is and doing the here is stuff for industry verticals. They're not talking about incident management.
They're talking about like incident management, you know, factory incident management in healthcare space, incident management and blah, blah, blah. Wouldn't you say?
[00:28:42] CJ: Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, it's, there's a huge push right now, towards, getting a service now into these verticals and having them a bit more configured, to, deliver value. To the vertical and the way that the vertical is looking for it. Right. And yeah, and I think this, obviously qualifies, right?
I mean, you guys saw a, , something that you already had existing, right? You had these, nurses who were walking around with iPhones, and they were already accustomed to using them day to day, you know, minute to minute to do things inside of. Why not slide the service now app on there, on there, and then just kind of bootstrap, right?
Like just, leverage what you already have and then create so much more value with only a small, probably a small uptick in training. Right? Because if you use epic, my guess is you can use service now.
[00:29:28] Deb: Right. Yeah.
[00:29:29] Duke: another thing unplanned, but I think what a lot of people don't get is how different, especially like the whole big box let's just come in and deploy best practices, cookie cutter, blah, blah, blah. Right. Especially for those types of partners, help us help them. Appreciate. How different it is to be in healthcare versus some other space.
[00:29:51] Deb: Well, not to be obvious, but it's healthcare. We are literally dealing with applications that drive the way we keep people alive and healthy. You know, we're talking about. Operating room applications. We're talking about.
the system that alarms, if there's an infant abduction in the NICU, like the real world's impact to the work that it does is fundamentally different from like a human perspective. Do you have to say that, of course, all of those clinical systems have downtime processes so that no one is literally going to immediately, have an adverse, impact patient-wise, but it's going to interrupt patient care. Right? If we have an outage, that means. All the nurses need to figure out what downtime procedures are and then go to downtime procedures.
And that means that your loved one, who's lying in a hospital bed waiting for care to be provided by a nurse that nurses now spending time doing things that aren't directed at patient care, like that's where it comes out in the end. So we, always have to think about that. It's just, the stakes are different and the impact is different.
And that's why it's not always about money. It's. If we can have a positive impact to patient care, that's going to outweigh the dollars and cents every.
[00:31:14] CJ: let me ask a question here that kind of hearkens back to one of the earlier conversations we were having about partners and did your partners know that, or did they ask that or what did that become? Apparent to them over the course of the project. And did they , pivot to ensure that they were.
[00:31:30] Deb: So I will say that there was, and this will come as a surprise to literally no one on this call. conversations that happened as we were picking our partner and the information that was shared during that part of the process did not seem to transition smoothly or possibly at all to the people who actually showed up to do the implementation.
[00:31:53] CJ: Got it that does not surprise me, unfortunately. Absolutely. Uh,
[00:32:03] Deb: I mean, I think they ultimately got it, but I don't think that that's a skill that the partners really focus on is the ability to say. there has to be a blend and it's, it's great that there's all sorts of out of the box cookie cutter, things that work I don't want to, I mean, cookie cutter is just a negative way to look at best practice, right?
If it's best practice, it's best practice. I'm totally fine with that. But I think the skill set that isn't really developed in the big partners is the ability to sit. All right. You're going to go to any given client and maybe 80% of our best practices are going to make sense. Here's how you handle the 20% that aren't and here's how you go.
Okay. That's not that doesn't line up with our best practice, but I can see that it is a best practice for you and here's how we're going to adapt. And that skill just didn't seem to just didn't seem to exist.
[00:32:55] Duke: Um,
[00:32:56] CJ: it.
Okay. So tell me this debt. , so one of the things that I do, , one of the phrases that we've coined here on the show, right? It's a fucker tech, and we're going to make this a thing no matter what,
[00:33:06] Duke: no matter what.
[00:33:12] CJ: but so what, uh, for architect is, is basically an architect that, may work, , less than 40 hours for you, but represents the use of. Right. Like you, hire them directly. And that person, could be your, eyes, ears, hands expertise, et cetera, when dealing with other vendor partners and just kind of giving you an honest, understanding and, use of their expertise when dealing with your instance as well.
So I'm wondering if you have any experience with, folks like that in that role
[00:33:37] Deb: absolutely. Robert actually was our architect on our, on our implementation.
[00:33:43] Duke: already.
[00:33:46] Deb: Uh, so yeah, I love it. It does evoke like a Frankenstein thing anyway. , so I don't know if that's intentional or not, but go with it. So,
[00:33:57] CJ: effect.
[00:33:59] Deb: having that role was, so useful, it, it sort of became a, so if a four architect could come in and say exactly the same thing that I had been saying, But it just took on a different weight, right?
Because the, everybody understood the role of the fork. Detective begin with, you know, everybody knew that I was going to bring them in to kind of be my eyes and ears. And to say, this is how you should do this. This is the right thing for longterm. and that, because they are independent, they don't have a stake in having it go one way or another.
Right. They don't stand to make any more business or do any more billing. If I make a decision to do something one way or the other, they're purely there to make sure that we make good decisions. that was helpful to have that person come on. They, they had a level of authority because they did know service now.
So, and they were an expert in service now. , so they were able to ask questions that I would never have known to ask. To allow the people on the call to draw their own conclusions and, show their own hand. so I think it was, it was really helpful to have, somebody in that role on the team.
And it's something that, honestly, within our it organization, when I've described how that worked, I've had other, my peers say, oh, when I do my next, whatever implementation. I'm going to see if I can get somebody like that. I have not used the term, but I will now.
[00:35:24] Duke: Okay. , we are at time. I like to thank Deb Quintin for being our very special guest today. Please remember that she is looking for a senior developer and some three staff level developers. We will have information in the description on how you can contact her if you are that person or, you know, somebody who would be, , also, , if you are a.
Of service now. And you want to tell your story on CG and the duke. We will have a link in the description below for how you can do that as well. and Corey, how would people find you if they want to get in touch with you?
[00:35:55] CJ: So duke, you can find me at, uh, Corey Wesley on LinkedIn, where I accept practically every connection that is offered to me. And I love connecting with folks and talking shop service now and practically anything else. Um, you can also find me@techpoint.com, where we focus on practically everything service now related.
[00:36:10] Duke: And you could reach me@wwwdottheduke.digital. There, you will find my upcoming course hired the definitive guide to profiles that wind service now jobs. Thanks again to have Quentin and we will see you on the next episode.
[00:36:25] Deb: Thanks guys.