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NET Society is unraveling the latest in digital art, crypto, AI, and tech. Join us for fresh insights and bold perspectives as we tap into wild, thought-provoking conversations. By: Derek Edwards (glitch marfa / collab+currency), Chris Furlong (starholder, LAO + Flamingo DAO), and Aaaron Wright & Priyanka Desai (Tribute Labs)
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;15;29
Aaron
You.
00;00;16;01 - 00;00;20;17
Aaron
Hey, hey. Hey, Derek. I was, I heard you were in D.C. this week. What was that like?
00;00;20;20 - 00;00;53;25
Derek
It was. It was actually really fun and interesting, and. Yeah, I was there to give a presentation to the SEC task force about AI and crypto and and a bunch of the innovation that's happening at that intersection right now. And in the US. And it was it was really nice, honestly. It was it was actually kind of an honor to to be able to kind of sit across the room from, you know, ten folks who are really thinking deeply right now about how to build rules for the road around a crypto cross, like, you know, there's a there's a lot of low hanging fruit just given the backlog of stuff over the last ten years
00;00;53;25 - 00;01;30;25
Derek
that they need to sort through. But, you know, I think in particular, one of the things that they recognize they need to start getting sharp on is, is this kind of like this dual headed dragon of crypto and AI and how it works and how AI is evolving and where the interesting areas are for them to kind of like, hone into and think about and and and yeah, so so, you know, they're as folks may or may not know, you know, the the SEC task force is on a bit of a mission, fact finding mission right now to learn about and understand and, and and hear from founders and ecosystem participants about how all
00;01;30;26 - 00;01;52;18
Derek
this stuff works and in ways that can illuminate how they think about rulemaking. I was asked and to participate and run, a workshop, session on on AI and crypto. And I brought four of my founders with me in this research, Prime Intellect 404, which is, some that on the tensor and actual computer, which is a new inference startup.
00;01;52;18 - 00;02;13;09
Derek
And yeah, we had a long, almost two hour session with them. Yeah. The truth is, is like, I feel really like honored and happy and stoked about it. I, I do feel like these types of things are meaningful and, I'm just happy to play a very tiny, tiny role in kind of their larger process. So it went super well.
00;02;13;12 - 00;02;33;09
Aaron
Yeah. I mean, I've been fortunate to also come in and talk to, different folks inside the government related to some of these questions, and it is like a very humbling and experience, and it's nice to know that there are folks that do want to kind of do the right thing and or are curious and in listening and learning mode and ultimately, you know, I think they'll kind of get there.
00;02;33;12 - 00;02;49;12
Aaron
It's exciting to see them also kind of push a little bit further on where we can go with thinking about questions like AI and crypto and how they intersect together. I know you have you have a lot of thoughts about how that could look look like, and it feels like every day that's just coming a little bit closer.
00;02;49;18 - 00;02;50;20
Derek
So yeah.
00;02;50;22 - 00;02;54;23
Aaron
Anything you highlighted there, was there like anything that you're particularly wanted to convey to them?
00;02;54;25 - 00;03;17;13
Derek
I think I wrote this like policy piece, like it was called the same title. I named this presentation, it was called I Crypto in America. And this was like 6 or 7 months ago now when I published that that piece and I, and I, you know, I, I think as a table setting device, I kind of use that policy paper about a, as a kind of a mechanism to illustrate where I thought there was opportunity.
00;03;17;13 - 00;03;54;02
Derek
There are real value propositions with blockchains and crypto. And I think the thing I always like to say when I'm giving presentations or meeting with investors or whoever it may be, is like there's there's these, these five killer design features that with crypto and blockchains, you can't actually replicate with any other database architecture on the planet. And you know, for me, my job over the last almost ten years at this point has been going category by category, trying to figure out how to use those five design features and really interesting ways, whether that was DeFi or commodity money or, you know, gaming, art, collectibles, infrastructure, real world assets.
00;03;54;05 - 00;04;28;04
Derek
You know, it's it's basically you know, where it's all of these categories are just if you, you know, take a reductive view or just using the same five features and just like new and optimal ways and so that's the way I approached it. I said, you know, there's these five features. And it's very clear to me, having thought a lot about this intersection of AI and crypto over the last few years, that the that we're just going to do the exact same thing that we have been doing around this asset class for since, you know, Bitcoin, which is leveraging these five features to bring these markets on chain and from all areas of of
00;04;28;04 - 00;04;58;08
Derek
kind of synthetic intelligence and AI creation, that could be data scraping and collection and labeling. It could be the pre-training process of organizing massive amounts of compute and GPUs to actually running, training the lower end communication costs and having these nodes that represent GPUs sync together during a training run to a lot of the interesting stuff that's not happening around post training and inference, time testing and reinforcement learning, which is very conducive to kind of open source and geographically dispersed intelligence.
00;04;58;08 - 00;05;14;29
Derek
So you don't really need to have professors all in the same room working on stuff. You can have them around the world, you know, running RL on a model and shaping that clay from their home or their their university or wherever it may be. Yeah. I mean, I, I walked through all this. They had great questions, very thoughtful.
00;05;14;29 - 00;05;37;08
Derek
They recognize that these things are collapsing together. And, you know, for them there are actually unique challenges around AI that don't exist with, you know, commodity money or NFTs or DeFi. And so for them, it's like, okay, how do we think about how these trends are evolving and how do we pick and choose areas that we want to make sure fall within our crosshairs for creating new rules of the road?
00;05;37;08 - 00;05;53;18
Derek
So that was, that was the, you know, the perspective I took. And and I think the founders I brought with me did a really great job of illustrating how they're thinking about it and what they're doing, what they're building, and that there's real, you know, there's real meat here, and there's really smart people working on this stuff.
00;05;53;18 - 00;05;56;17
Derek
And what they're looking for is just a little bit of guidance.
00;05;56;20 - 00;06;23;13
Aaron
Yeah, completely. And it seems like there's increased recognition that open source AI models are going to be important. We want, you know, that to come out of. Yeah hopefully us or us kind of adjacent companies or projects. And that crypto is going to be a great way for these open models to get distribution right, whether it's through superior performance or lower cost inference and training or labeling or all these other types of bets.
00;06;23;13 - 00;06;40;19
Aaron
So I think it's encouraging that at least those projects will get a shot at achieving that goal. I mean, who knows if they succeed, right? Like another model would be just the big, just kind of open source their, their older models so that people can just, use them in different ways. So be interesting to see how it develops.
00;06;40;19 - 00;06;49;21
Aaron
But I was pretty encouraged that, that these conversations are happening. And I was very happy to see you kind of be tapped to, to lead some of those conversations. Derek. So great job.
00;06;49;23 - 00;07;11;13
Derek
Thank you. Dude. You know, you've you've done a lot there as well. And you know it's just it's fun to just play a small role here and there thinking it you know I share this with a bunch of folks. But like I just I'm happy that people in the space that are, you know, really doing hard and good work are being invited to even just, like, present these viewpoints because it's such a stark contrast to the last administration and, and how things were being done.
00;07;11;13 - 00;07;19;04
Derek
And so, yeah, it's it's it's very encouraging. So as I keep saying this, but it really was an honor to just like play a very small role here.
00;07;19;06 - 00;07;23;16
Aaron
What else is going on, guys. What's been, what's been keeping everybody's attention this week?
00;07;23;16 - 00;07;27;20
Derek
Chris what's up with you, man? What's the latest? You know, it's it's been a minute.
00;07;27;23 - 00;07;34;27
Chris
Has it been a minute? I don't know, but if you say so, I'll believe you. I felt like you were on the pod last week. So, you know, it's true.
00;07;34;27 - 00;07;39;02
Derek
I was, I was I was, in and out. It was a quick, quick one for me.
00;07;39;04 - 00;08;07;24
Chris
Yeah. Well, look at as you see, I'm, in the middle of installing a non-American model into my stack in which trying to get my AI dev bot slaves to get C one, two, five coder. Why running? Why? Because I've built this beautiful pipeline that can take large documents and run through a class classification scheme. Break them into chapters.
00;08;07;24 - 00;08;30;16
Chris
Scenes within scenes. Recognize entities, create entities. Is this little gorgeous thing. I get it running and it costs like 6070 bucks on four hours to decompose like an 82,000 character doc. And I was like, all right, that's not it. It's not sustainable. So that I get it over on many a nanos and, you know, it gets down to like three bucks, but even that's not enough.
00;08;30;16 - 00;08;44;24
Chris
And so now I go to, you know, I gotta get my own model for it. So I'm just, you know, I'm in the lab and building systems. I'm stacking stack and stuff on top of stuff. Yeah. Right now I just I need to throw a model in the stack.
00;08;44;29 - 00;09;02;17
Aaron
And I think, I mean, that's the case for these open like, open sourcing it. Right. And then you're going to build custom tooling related to it. Then you're going to get a little bit more locked in to using that model over time. Right. Even if something is slightly better. So I do think like just thinking about how to distribute open source AI is super important.
00;09;02;20 - 00;09;07;09
Aaron
I hope. I hope crypto can play an important role in in kind of shaping that one thing.
00;09;07;09 - 00;09;32;05
Chris
I was like, I get further and further into this journey, I get a little more, I don't know, skeptical about middle layers or, you know, people saying, hey, I'm going to build this, a service and you're going to use it. I mean, I'm rolling everything myself, right? And or like, just literally going like, open source, customizing that to my needs and integrating it into my app.
00;09;32;07 - 00;09;53;03
Chris
And like, I, I've yet to encounter a use case in which, you know, one of these token power projects or even make any form of like remote sensor for using. And so I understand like there's, you know, it's a horses for courses type of thing. You may want agents out participating in the wilds and you need all sorts of this and that.
00;09;53;03 - 00;10;01;10
Chris
But I don't know, I do it every time. Like I run into a problem. It's just like a time. Time to code a solution.
00;10;01;13 - 00;10;18;28
Aaron
Yeah, completely. I mean, I've thought a lot about this, like, I, you know, we went through this probably about like, what, 20 year period of SAS like software as a service. And I increasingly think it's just going to be custom software as a service. I don't know why you would just deliver like a turnkey solution when it is so easy to kind of customize in different ways.
00;10;18;28 - 00;10;39;05
Aaron
I do think, though, there's just going to be challenges in implementing and kind of building that. One question I've had is, is it really like Palantir all the way down? Because that's kind of their business model, right? They didn't do SAS, they had a platform, but they really like did all these like heavily customized installations. It was almost like consulting work that they were doing with their software package.
00;10;39;05 - 00;10;59;00
Aaron
And I do wonder if that's the model kind of going forward. We just haven't, you know, kind of gotten to that point yet, but it feels kind of right. I do think you think you want to roll your own stack, but I do think there is a lot more efficiency that you can get. And I think that's going to continue just in terms of like tackling a vertical and building like, you know, the custom solution, like around that.
00;10;59;06 - 00;11;22;15
Aaron
I am still skeptical that like outside of maybe some narrow bands like, like e-commerce or, you know, search that the larger lens will actually tackle the agent market as well as like a constellation of smaller companies that are just kind of, you know, really running at different verticals. That's kind of where I am in that journey, Chris. But I feel you I don't even think you really need like, like libraries.
00;11;22;22 - 00;11;34;03
Aaron
I think if you like, need something done, the smallest, lightest weight library that you can code library that you can get to do it, the better you just build it up around it. It's easier to maintain. It's perfectly customizable, for sure.
00;11;34;05 - 00;11;54;17
Pri
That was dumb. Doing this Palantir for businesses type of thing is, I was listening to a podcast, Jared Kushner and Elad Gil, they like, have brain co I mean basically having like they're going to like large businesses and companies and governments just being like, hey, well, we're going to like add agents to different parts of your business.
00;11;54;17 - 00;12;01;22
Pri
Like that's their entire company. So it is kind of a palantir again, model. So I bet we see more of that.
00;12;01;26 - 00;12;17;14
Aaron
Yeah. It's almost like the software companies the future could just be like law firms right. Like or consulting companies. You know, they go in, you've got a problem, they're going to build you like a custom, like perfectly tailored custom solution for that and then probably leave like something that you're paying for on an ongoing basis.
00;12;17;17 - 00;12;25;18
Pri
And then eventually, like it becomes good enough to what Palantir did. And they can kind of have some sort of like white label solution at some point for or not.
00;12;25;18 - 00;12;26;04
Aaron
Like, I don't know if.
00;12;26;04 - 00;12;27;24
Pri
It's like a demotion, more.
00;12;27;24 - 00;12;47;02
Aaron
Like an aggregated like some aggregated service that they kind of provide, like something that you can only do once you kind of do that at scale a bunch, a whole bunch of different companies and projects. So I mean, maybe that flips if you could like, have a turnkey solution where you have agents like do that customization for you, but that feels that feels a little bit further down in the future.
00;12;47;05 - 00;13;01;20
Aaron
Like I think that will take a while. Take it like imagine like signing up for something. And then there's these AI agents that can understand your needs, right. And change the product on the fly for you. But I think eventually we'll probably get to something like that too.
00;13;01;21 - 00;13;30;03
Chris
Okay, so with all this talk of talent here, the other thing that's been on my mind lately, and I feel it very out in the air there, I think it's a lot of people. A lot of people are thinking about escapes, and I certainly would like to escape from the notion that there's a talent here floating around out there, surveilling everything we do, building custom on demand tracking solutions for anyone who wants to train a satellite on me.
00;13;30;08 - 00;13;36;01
Chris
So how are you guys getting out of Dodge these days? In your mind, in your spirit, maybe even physically?
00;13;36;04 - 00;13;57;20
Aaron
I've been listening to a lot more music, Chris. Like I've been just going deeper and just trying to find, like, new stuff to listen to. I've been doing a lot more of that. Not as much kind of TV or like, you know, traditional media. But yeah, I mean, it's tough to be on social media right now. Like, I don't know how you guys felt that I had zero desire to see all the violence that, we've had to witness over the past, you know, past week.
00;13;57;24 - 00;14;01;15
Pri
Because I thought you were talking about, like, no work states.
00;14;01;17 - 00;14;30;11
Chris
I'm talking about every form of escape is, I believe everyone wants everyone is not happy with this moment in time, and everyone is looking for something, something else. I got a friend of mine right now who mentally they are on the back of the force. They're out in the steps. They're a force, Lord. In the, in the Mongol state of mind, just cruising around the unknowable great grass, see a free person as they grind towards a launch.
00;14;30;11 - 00;14;48;20
Chris
Right now, that's one example of it. Me for a selfie, right? This is NYC mayoral thing. I've just decided I'm not voting for any of them. I'm pulling a Bartleby and saying I prefer not to. And this is going to be the second big election in a row where I just, I felt like I couldn't vote for any candidate at all.
00;14;48;22 - 00;14;52;17
Chris
I mean, I think there's a gazillion forms of this pretty fair enough.
00;14;52;19 - 00;15;14;08
Pri
I sent you guys that meme, but there was this, like me, and that was just like exit society. Every income bracket has its own escape fantasy. I actually started reading this book and in my on a maybe like 50 page into it. It's definitely very entertaining, but at the edges I've been like reading a lot of like network state adjacent books like Crack up Capitalism.
00;15;14;08 - 00;15;42;12
Pri
But then now there's this one, like Douglas Rushkoff survival of the Richest and he's kind of like this consultant guy who's gone to these, like, billionaire LP conferences. And it's like a lot of questions. He's like a tech trend person, but he gets a lot of questions on, you know, how like Private Bunker is. And he's like a neon nerd, like talking to a lot of these, like billionaire private bunker contractor people and people buying like island compounds and plans to exit Earth, whatever.
00;15;42;12 - 00;16;02;15
Pri
Like that's like the ultra high net worth escapist and then like, so he talks a little bit about that, that level. But then there's also like high net worth looking at self-sustaining ranches and eco villas and luxury homesteads in the middle class, luxury van life, digital nomadism, long term Airbnbs in foreign countries and working classes like, you know, the tiny room trend, off grid cabin stealth vanlife.
00;16;02;17 - 00;16;14;11
Pri
I feel like there is like every, every layer like wants some level of escapism, which to your point, no better time for it. But wonder what happens when that becomes like, I wonder if a lot of this is escapism. If you technology when.
00;16;14;11 - 00;16;25;13
Aaron
You can't escape. I think that's your that's your concern. Chris. Right. Like with the surveillance state, you're just never able to escape. You always get kind of shuttled back into it or shunted back into it.
00;16;25;16 - 00;16;49;27
Chris
There is no escape. There's how do you how can you live within this person? How can you find your happy place and turn the attention to things that have meaning to you and things that are responsive to you, versus giving your energy into these large, consuming systems of, you know, capitalism, politics, your worms, organization, whatever it happens to be.
00;16;49;27 - 00;17;11;09
Chris
Right? Like these systems, they demand and demand of you and they give you nothing back. Right. And so to me, look, I got to pay my taxes. I got to be online all day, right? Like I have to hit all of these bunkers. You know, they're keeping tabs on me. That doesn't mean I have to give them my attention.
00;17;11;12 - 00;17;31;02
Chris
That, like, I have to give them my thoughts or my concerns and, like, that's the best I can do right now. I don't know, I just like the timeline this week, you know? So a lot a lot of feelings, a lot of emotion. You know, I'm not going to go there, right? I, I'm simply not. It's more that these things can elicit these responses.
00;17;31;02 - 00;17;42;06
Chris
And what are they going to give you in return. What are you going to get back from them. Right. That that to me I think is a bad thing to focus on because they don't care about you, right? They're systems.
00;17;42;09 - 00;18;11;22
Aaron
Yeah. You definitely feel like you're just like a cog in this like algorithmic machine. I do think a couple things there. One is I do think like I will provide a partial solution for that. I think increasingly as the agent economy matures, that will be like a layer where you can abstract your abstract away, a little bit of the need for you to pay attention to that where these agents will be on, you know, operating on your behalf, like consuming information or trying to find information that you may be interested in, and then it just gets delivered to you.
00;18;11;28 - 00;18;29;13
Aaron
That I think is kind of a win. So you can begin to like, kind of manage or satisfy your itch for information or staying on top of whatever you're kind of interested in. So that's one thing I do think in the longer run, like these agents will be so customized to your own preferences that they'll just start acting on your behalf.
00;18;29;13 - 00;18;51;25
Aaron
And I can even see a future where nobody engages in political life. You have like, this political agent layer that is kind of doing that, which, I think will ensure that people don't get overly radicalized one way or the other. I think it's I think that that's kind of what the solution is, Chris. It's kind of like humans are not equipped to handle all this information load.
00;18;51;25 - 00;19;23;23
Aaron
We kind of know that it's driving people crazy. It's making them anxious. It's doing weird things to a small subset of people, too. And so we kind of need like a layer of intermediation and abstraction. So we can just kind of go around and do things that we like. I think the other thing I've been thinking a lot about is if if the internet is going to radicalize somebody's cryptos, I want to see like a much better solution than like anything else, like get, get people radicalized about pudgy penguins, you know, like, why are we, you know, people should be putting their attention towards like, you know.
00;19;23;23 - 00;19;24;20
Pri
On.
00;19;24;22 - 00;19;33;16
Aaron
Yeah, like fun, dumb, frivolous stuff like, not not like where the algorithm is kind of taking some people. So I think that's my it's not.
00;19;33;16 - 00;19;59;09
Pri
That people are getting like politically engaged, but it seems like you can be politically engaged. And then the like I think like, you know, having awareness of the issues and feeling like, you know, you're reading and kind of but then like there's like a fine line between that and then just like this, like radicalization hole that comes into, I don't know if you've like, ever read any of like Josh in RL is like he has this whole diagram of like the funnel of radicalization on the internet.
00;19;59;12 - 00;20;16;19
Pri
And it's like, I wonder how you accept that part. It's like from being like super educated, finding like minded people. And then it can like go deep, deep, deep down this funnel. Yeah. If maybe AI is a solution for like, hey, but you know that there's like deradicalization programs and stuff for some of these people online that's like becoming more of a thing.
00;20;16;21 - 00;20;27;20
Pri
And even people like addicted to porn, like they have like actual like I don't know if it's rehab, but like they have programs for that, which is crazy to me. Maybe AI is a solution.
00;20;27;24 - 00;20;57;20
Chris
I don't know if I saw the solution. I heard from someone I hadn't heard from in a while, and you know, there's a certain manic energy and what they're feeling that I was allowing them to do. And it's it's a very it's a double edged sword. You know, and I think it's very much gonna be an equal, equal form of, I don't know, info hazard or, you know, it's, it's technology itself, I think more so than the medium that you gotta go to keep a wary eye for.
00;20;57;21 - 00;21;20;11
Chris
Now, that being said, like, look, I'm so deep into it, right? Like me and my pal cursor are doing ten hours a day here and so I'm no one speak, right? I think everyone just needs to be able to have an awareness. And, you know, you exercise some level of judgment and be able to like, critically examine their engagement with these things.
00;21;20;13 - 00;21;38;06
Aaron
Yeah, I think they're super engaging, Chris. I found myself there and I do think there's a manic energy. Even Seth, last week when he joined the pod, kind of mentioned that. But I think like one way to think about it is like cursor is radicalizing you to be productive. Like that's a maybe a good thing, right? Like that's that's like a positive flywheel, not like a negative one.
00;21;38;09 - 00;21;56;22
Aaron
I think that's the challenge with a lot of these algorithms today. They're they're just unaccountable, like, you know, nobody knows how they operate. Nobody knows like what they do. You have no saying it. You're just kind of trapped and in the matrix almost. And I do think that the forces are kind of pushing back against it, meaning we can look at schools and at least New York.
00;21;56;22 - 00;22;08;10
Aaron
And I know other jurisdictions where they're just banning outright, like the supercomputers in our pockets, and nobody seems to be upset about it except at the margins. I mean, that's super telling.
00;22;08;13 - 00;22;28;15
Chris
Yeah, I have not heard a lot of complaints in my household about it. So, you know, half my household is now on, daytime school cell phone bans. And, you know, let's be interesting to see what the grades look like. And if I notice a general uptick in, I don't know, intelligence or engagement within my, my brood, but is a good point around that.
00;22;28;15 - 00;22;54;23
Chris
Like, it's it's the agency factor, right? That if I can grant you agency like it is a good thing the cursor is making me productive. Right. And why am I so productive right now? Because, you know, having come out of my own, like, founder's journey and running myself into the ground and taking a while to, like, piece myself back together, I did have a certain list of things I was unwilling to do next time out.
00;22;54;23 - 00;23;19;06
Chris
And one of those things was get caught in organizational traps and work politics. And like the ask of trying to, I don't know, form consensus around business decisions and play, play, work politics. Right. Like I just absolutely not going to do that again. The fact that, like, I can now sideline the entire need to engage in that. Right.
00;23;19;07 - 00;23;24;16
Chris
That's been a big thing to like, you know, get me back out there and you know, possibly, retire me.
00;23;24;21 - 00;23;27;13
Aaron
Yeah. Which is amazing, right? I mean, I do think, you know, that.
00;23;27;17 - 00;23;30;13
Pri
Chris is coming out of retirement.
00;23;30;15 - 00;23;31;05
Aaron
This is great.
00;23;31;11 - 00;23;32;02
Derek
News.
00;23;32;04 - 00;23;32;28
Chris
Breaking.
00;23;32;28 - 00;23;37;02
Aaron
News. But what do we do in Chris? What are we doing.
00;23;37;04 - 00;23;47;06
Chris
Away from our game? I've been Murtha. Yeah, we'll do like the keys. I'm buying a Derek's house. I'm over in other sides.
00;23;47;08 - 00;23;50;15
Derek
I've been sworn to secrecy. I I'm not allowed to say anything.
00;23;50;18 - 00;23;55;17
Aaron
But you know about this, Derek. You've been withholding this. I know, but firm nor deny.
00;23;55;17 - 00;23;58;12
Derek
I know anything about Chris's involvement in retirement.
00;23;58;14 - 00;23;59;12
Pri
Like I know about it.
00;23;59;13 - 00;24;01;17
Aaron
Wait. I'm just the only one that does know about it.
00;24;01;17 - 00;24;03;26
Pri
What the heck?
00;24;03;28 - 00;24;04;13
Aaron
What's up?
00;24;04;13 - 00;24;16;12
Chris
Can along the spectrum of thing of two lies in a truth. Derek knows some of this. Three knows more. No one I know nothing because I don't know the full story. So. Martha guys, wait, wait.
00;24;16;13 - 00;24;21;20
Aaron
So Martha good marketing there. Chris. Good marketing. I'll let I let this one slide.
00;24;21;22 - 00;24;35;25
Chris
Speaking of escapes, I do feel there's a lot of Martha energy floating around, a lot of people looking towards Martha and I think a lot of people do have that as a temporary escape hatch that they're really looking forward to.
00;24;35;27 - 00;24;37;21
Derek
A way to bring it for a full circle, dude.
00;24;37;28 - 00;24;43;04
Aaron
Oh yeah, I mean, but I think that I think that is that, though. Chris. Yeah. Derek, you go.
00;24;43;07 - 00;24;46;01
Derek
I was just going to say, are we recording again when we're out there?
00;24;46;03 - 00;24;46;12
Chris
We should.
00;24;46;14 - 00;24;48;07
Aaron
Absolutely. Yeah.
00;24;48;10 - 00;24;48;19
Pri
Yeah.
00;24;48;19 - 00;24;55;13
Derek
It's kind of become a, you know, a thing people are looking forward to. We should definitely. Do you guys want to make it a public one or.
00;24;55;15 - 00;24;56;04
Aaron
Yeah, let's do it.
00;24;56;05 - 00;24;58;13
Derek
One. Public one.
00;24;58;15 - 00;25;00;05
Pri
Yeah, that could be kind of fun.
00;25;00;08 - 00;25;18;04
Chris
Yeah, we could do a recording like a, a Friday Live. Now, here's the thing, though. Like, we gotta, like, really? Because Cinco is going to be out there, right? Or our audio engineer or Production A's, and I think we really need to test them. And so what I was saying is we should record at Planet Marfa during a date about set.
00;25;18;06 - 00;25;20;02
Aaron
Oh my God.
00;25;20;05 - 00;25;21;25
Pri
It's good to test.
00;25;21;27 - 00;25;24;02
Aaron
This. That's a test for everybody.
00;25;24;02 - 00;25;25;22
Pri
Was not ready for that. No one.
00;25;25;22 - 00;25;47;27
Chris
Is. I don't know if you want to hop on for a second. Are you ready to handle. Oh, alive I. Oh, what does he call a tree? It's not like DJ ING property I did. Yeah, yeah. Let's record. During a prompt job, you said. Yeah, I don't know. I would definitely, introduce some, some challenges that we're not used to in the comfort of recording from the comfort of our own computers.
00;25;47;29 - 00;25;51;21
Chris
Can, Riverside handle death? Cumbia?
00;25;51;23 - 00;25;53;03
Aaron
Yeah. I don't know if I can.
00;25;53;06 - 00;25;59;10
Chris
I'll, I'll ask support and see if they have any other, examples. Help us. Yeah. Put a ticket in for us, please.
00;25;59;13 - 00;26;15;25
Aaron
Well, I'm excited about that. I think that'd be great. I think Marfa is, kind of a escape, an oasis. And I think it's also a little bit of that solution to your important question, Chris. Right. It is like touching grass. A bit like turning off these, silly attention grabbing machines.
00;26;15;27 - 00;26;42;12
Pri
I have been seeing, like, data Gen Alpha, Gen Z. I think this might potentially could be a sign up of data, because then there's like a lot of conflicting information on this, but basically that Gen Alpha is going to the movies more and like theater sales have gone up and the movie theater is fully back post-Covid. That said, like most box office, I think from Covid this this summer was one of the worst box office summers in the past, like five years.
00;26;42;15 - 00;27;11;22
Pri
So like, I can't tell if the whole push to saying Gen Alpha really into going to the movies is, is just basically the big movie industrial complex saying that it is. But I wonder if part of that escapism is just like these IRL, assuming that that data is true, that like meeting up in person, going to the movies, going to shows, going to see music live is a way to connect with reality and like escape the internet.
00;27;12;00 - 00;27;17;25
Pri
The craziness on the internet that is constantly bombarding people every day and potentially radicalizing them, maybe.
00;27;17;28 - 00;27;22;15
Aaron
I don't think it's potentially it's it's definitely radicalizing some folks I know.
00;27;22;15 - 00;27;44;03
Pri
How do we change the internet for these people? It's like, I don't remember, I don't know. So like, obviously I've been on the internet since I was in third grade. It started with AOL and I don't remember it becoming this like radicalization engine up until like maybe whatever, five, ten years ago. I wonder, like when how where that all stemmed from.
00;27;44;05 - 00;27;54;11
Pri
Maybe it's just like the larger political milieu or people are just like using the internet because they're reacting to whatever the existing politics are in. Politics weren't as crazy when I was a kid.
00;27;54;14 - 00;28;15;01
Aaron
I think it was. It's just the algorithms, man. It's social media is the front page is an AP that right? Used to be Google or, you know, more basic flat URL. And now you're just fed like, like a stuffed foie gras duck. Right. Just getting all this information and you have no control over it. It's just what happens.
00;28;15;05 - 00;28;42;27
Aaron
It's just we got to get control of the algorithms. They should start regulating them. Like just giving people more control, being able to calibrate it. Like just having, like, a button to say you're not interested in that is just not enough. And then not enough people are using it. So just whipping people up. Yeah. Like how many, how many versions of that video or some of those videos which we don't need to dive into that we can acknowledge, you know, probably hit you over the past couple of days, 50, 100, 200.
00;28;43;00 - 00;28;47;01
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah. But that's nuts. And like what say did you have over that. You know none.
00;28;47;04 - 00;28;48;04
Pri
Yeah.
00;28;48;06 - 00;28;52;10
Aaron
So I think that that it's that lack of control that I think is a part of it.
00;28;52;17 - 00;28;56;24
Pri
So yeah. Since then I don't know the solution.
00;28;56;28 - 00;29;22;16
Chris
I know I was going to say Sam's had a good tweet about this kind of making a counterintuitive point that we were all exposed to those videos because the internet is less open than it was back in the day, that this idea that we have fewer choices force us into seeing things or allow platforms to get away with sharing stuff that, you know, the vast majority of people did not want to see.
00;29;22;18 - 00;29;52;19
Chris
That's like the system pushing down on you in ways that. Right. Like we talk about radicalization, radicalization, exposure is a big part of that. And, you know, in 2010, you had to start like you had to go to some of the fringes, corners and actively seek that sort of content out and now it's, you know, just the bigger social media networks just jamming it down your throat and wanting to because they can.
00;29;52;21 - 00;30;01;01
Pri
Yeah. To Erin's point, it's really like the algorithm has just dominated, which wasn't necessarily the case with the internet back in the day.
00;30;01;04 - 00;30;10;11
Aaron
Yeah, but I think it's not all doom and gloom. It just it requires just some surgical rules put in place that you have to have more. You have to give your end user more control over that.
00;30;10;13 - 00;30;10;23
Pri
Yeah.
00;30;10;23 - 00;30;28;17
Aaron
And you know, you should in an easy, easy way, be able to pick kind of what you want. So and and be able to do that for, you know, younger folks too. If you're a parent be able to dictate a little bit of what that media landscape looks like, you know, what are areas you can and can't go into.
00;30;28;17 - 00;30;39;22
Aaron
And we have the tooling is all there. It's just like the incentive of these systems to do that. With the folks that are running these systems, they have no incentive to to, tamp down on, and grabbing your attention.
00;30;39;24 - 00;31;01;04
Chris
Yeah. You know who I'm having a bit more of an appreciation for. And I feel like he surfaces every now and again. Is Jack Dorsey right? Like Jack's having a bit of a moment right now. I do think he is someone who has figured out his escape and yet still maintains, you know, being productive, putting things out in the world.
00;31;01;04 - 00;31;15;18
Chris
And I guess, you know, with all this stuff going on in Nepal and shutting down social media, one of it is like decentralized mesh network type projects is is getting a little play over there. But, you know, I've got a little more, respect for what Jack's up to.
00;31;15;19 - 00;31;36;28
Aaron
Where I think he was. The he saw it. Right? Because, I mean, when he was running Twitter, he I'm sure he saw just what was happening. And, you know, and I imagine that there was a huge tensions between like, maximizing capturing people's attention and, you know, and also kind of manicuring the wildness of the internet. Right. Those are difficult questions to deal in and to deal with.
00;31;36;28 - 00;31;50;10
Aaron
And he kind of like opted out of it. Touch grass got into, you know, Bitcoin and started thinking about, you know the future. So I feel like he just kind of like the tip of the the broader sphere with a lot of this stuff.
00;31;50;11 - 00;31;54;15
Chris
Yeah I'm stoicism the Jack and Jack Dawson story.
00;31;54;18 - 00;31;56;16
Aaron
So Chris you got to grow beard. That's what it means man.
00;31;56;21 - 00;32;01;22
Chris
I've never had a beard. I've never I can't get it's the scratching. So you ever had a beard?
00;32;01;22 - 00;32;07;20
Aaron
Aaron I mean, I've like scruff but never, never full on beards. I'm in the same boat.
00;32;07;23 - 00;32;13;14
Chris
Yeah. How about you, Derek? You've got beard, right? And you've had the patch before. You got it. Are you rocking the goat right now?
00;32;13;16 - 00;32;24;19
Derek
I'm. I'm rocking like a perpetually two week long beard. I trim it pretty pretty frequently. Okay. Yeah, I like I like the beard. I've been a mini beard guy for a while.
00;32;24;24 - 00;32;31;26
Chris
And do you feel you have more gravitas? With the, the facial hair or is it just a growing preference?
00;32;31;28 - 00;32;37;10
Derek
It's definitely a grooming preference. Like, I like, I like not having to, to shave every day.
00;32;37;10 - 00;32;46;08
Chris
Honestly, I feel that, like, every 2 or 3 days, I got to shave, and it's just like, oh, man, I really. And then you're like, oh, I don't want to get into the scratches. Scratches. You know?
00;32;46;11 - 00;32;47;01
Aaron
You can be like.
00;32;47;01 - 00;32;47;08
Chris
You know.
00;32;47;12 - 00;33;10;19
Aaron
It. But Chris, once you get through that, then you never need to shave again. That's what Jack realized. Did you guys see this wild story? Where in Nepal, there was obviously lots of stuff going on there, like burnt down the the parliament. That was like an uprising by some of the younger folks in Nepal just because of restrictions on social media, which was nice, but did did you guys see how they picked their next leader.
00;33;10;21 - 00;33;12;09
Derek
Discord baby.
00;33;12;11 - 00;33;23;12
Aaron
It was it literally true, true based true Intel based governance? They just had an emoji poll to pick their next leader. And I thought that was wild. Absolutely wild.
00;33;23;15 - 00;33;26;09
Pri
Kind of based honestly.
00;33;26;11 - 00;33;26;14
Chris
I.
00;33;26;20 - 00;33;33;16
Derek
Didn't didn't even have to Web3 often with agreements just like, you know, roll the blind emoji vote completely.
00;33;33;16 - 00;33;43;22
Aaron
And one of the options was any random person. And that was number two. I think that that like was the second most vote getting option. But I thought that that was kind of interesting.
00;33;43;25 - 00;34;07;29
Derek
It's a pretty crazy I mean, I mean, all of this stuff is really like kind of dovetailing with the topic of the day, which is just like, you know, I think every, every, every person, every nation is at various stages of feeling this unrest. Some are at the point where they're, you know, literally overturning, you know, that, you know, overturning the rule of law in their country.
00;34;07;29 - 00;34;28;26
Derek
And, you know, force voting a new a new sitting leader and others are just, you know, talking about it and feeling the angst and trying to figure out where to mobilize. And yeah, I would say, like there's a throughline, all of this stuff, which is that it feels like we're on the precipice of some pretty big change, and we're all speedrunning it at different.
00;34;29;02 - 00;34;32;01
Chris
You know, while the French government was taking down this is the.
00;34;32;08 - 00;34;33;25
Pri
Equation vacation is.
00;34;34;01 - 00;34;35;21
Aaron
Yeah. Wasn't it vacation days?
00;34;35;23 - 00;35;01;19
Chris
Two vacation days? Yes. The Prime Minister wanted to take two vacation days off the calendar. It was wildly, wildly unpopular. The opposition said, look, if you bring this to the floor, we're going to bring the government down. And he did, and they did. And so, you know, I mean, France is just apparently, like very firm on we're not letting this shit slip any further.
00;35;01;21 - 00;35;06;24
Chris
You've taken enough from us. And that seems to be their political position at the moment.
00;35;06;26 - 00;35;13;04
Aaron
So we had political unrest due to a lack of vacation days and some restrictions in social media. So I don't.
00;35;13;06 - 00;35;36;26
Pri
It does feel kind of a lot of like unrest and the degree to which it's happening. Like if you look at obviously Europe as a continent, but even individual countries in Europe, like between the UK, France, Poland, Italy, like they have their own like just kind of crazy politics at the moment. South America as well. Course, like El Salvador and Brazil, North Korea is like turning over a little bit.
00;35;36;27 - 00;35;57;08
Pri
Japan is kind of having their prime minister resign. I think someone else is coming in. Nepal has this like insane story that is truly like, I feel like there needs to be a movie about it. I don't know, it's just the worst kind of just goes on and on and on of Ukraine, Russia, Israel, Palestine, like you. Just like there's so much happening right now.
00;35;57;08 - 00;36;24;22
Pri
It just feels it feels like sort of like a simulation. And then on top of it, then you get like the obscene book that's like released it just there's a lot of weird shit happening over the last like two weeks where between, like global economy, trade, politics, just just everything. Generational turnover is kind of slowly happening even in like the media world, you see, like not really doing this to like the global havoc, but you're seeing a lot of like generational shift across the media world.
00;36;24;26 - 00;36;43;25
Pri
I don't know Larry Ellison and Oracle and him trying to revive like MTV. Like I just feel like there's like this huge turnover happening in institutions. It's almost as if, like phase one was everyone deciding that the institutions that we have today or are not credible, and that lack of credibility has been the case for the last like five, eight years?
00;36;43;25 - 00;37;04;05
Pri
And then now, since everyone is on the same page that these institutions are not kind of credible, let it be like politics, you know, government, all these other institutions. It's time to like flip the script and do something different. And I feel like we're in that, like flip the script, do something different phase. And it's even more chaotic than everyone deciding that the institutions are not cannot be respected anymore.
00;37;04;08 - 00;37;28;09
Derek
There's there's something about the inevitability of, like, what we're seeing. And I think just listening to you have like, really kind of anchor for me, which is just like younger populations around the world are. But they've got like record student debt. They've got like, you know, inability to mobilize. Wages are stagnant. They can't afford homes. They're, you know, the wealth inequality continues to kind of like separate.
00;37;28;13 - 00;37;58;17
Derek
And there are these really interesting like forcing functions that are kind of accelerating this, you know, this divide. I think social media was one of them. I think crypto is another. I think AI is certainly like the fuel on the fire. It's inevitable that like as generations phase out and younger generations come into power, it's like we see this evolution of politics that happen to better accommodate the realities of like the new, you know, whatever the, the, the new generation, the new demographic that it needs to represent.
00;37;58;20 - 00;38;21;04
Derek
But it feels like we're doing like this hard stop where these technologies are kind of all arriving at the same time. And there's this massive frustration that exists, and we're seeing it play out in different ways across these different regions. And yeah, I don't know, it's it's, the nipple thing caught my eye because it was just like they used social media to elect a new leader, which is insane.
00;38;21;04 - 00;38;23;11
Derek
But like, it's how, you know.
00;38;23;11 - 00;38;25;15
Aaron
Did it was like through like a discord live stream.
00;38;25;21 - 00;38;29;19
Derek
Through a discord live stream. They're using Usdc or Usdc or whatever.
00;38;29;21 - 00;38;30;20
Aaron
Yeah. It's all there to.
00;38;30;20 - 00;38;54;14
Derek
Like to, you know, transfer stablecoins to each other to bypass restrictions around finance there, you know, using AI to kind of like, help draft documents and, disseminate information. And it's like, yeah, anyway, it's a if you look at it as kind of like this, I don't know, I'm learning like metaphor for this larger thing that's happening. It's becomes kind of obvious that, we're just going to continue to see more and more of this stuff.
00;38;54;17 - 00;39;14;26
Aaron
And I always think it like it feels darkest, like when things are tough, but you see all the pain points and like more people's tolerances are just not going to go. And that's kind of what leads to the regeneration and the rebirth of all this stuff. But it's good to know that Americans, technology tools are being used to effectuate regime change, even discord.
00;39;14;28 - 00;39;17;06
Aaron
Congratulations, discord. They've made it.
00;39;17;12 - 00;39;39;19
Chris
Free. Have you ever been down in the Paul rabbit hole? Cuz this is the one I have not. But, there's a large Nepali community in my neighborhood. Neighborhood next door, and just through like background exposure, one of the interesting things was realizing how similar it is northern India. I know northern India, like some of those provinces, had communist administration for a while.
00;39;39;19 - 00;39;45;00
Chris
And, you know, it seems the like, do you know what the heck's going on up there?
00;39;45;03 - 00;40;01;15
Pri
No, I mean, but they definitely I mean, a lot of like north eastern provinces that border Nepal tend to be socialist, like they have like a lot of that has actually been a dominant force in a lot of those states. But I don't know how that relates to Nepal or like, I actually haven't been down the Nepal rabbit hole.
00;40;01;15 - 00;40;04;12
Pri
I probably should go down it.
00;40;04;14 - 00;40;15;12
Chris
I like that we missed an opportunity here. We all should have monitored the situation harder. We all should have red threads and we all should have came on Instax for it's on this.
00;40;15;14 - 00;40;20;01
Pri
I know if this was all in podcast, we surely would be.
00;40;20;04 - 00;40;24;21
Chris
Yeah, our situational awareness failed miserably. Year round. Hey, look.
00;40;24;25 - 00;40;31;02
Aaron
I mean, Derek's already teeing himself up, to be the czar of AI in crypto. So you just. What? He just went in?
00;40;31;09 - 00;40;34;18
Derek
You will never find me in government. And I can assure you that.
00;40;34;21 - 00;40;40;00
Aaron
Famous last words. That's what Chris is doing when he comes out of retirement. I heard he's running for, that for mayor.
00;40;40;01 - 00;40;44;11
Derek
Okay. He's getting warm. Chris, are you concerned he might let the cat out of the bag?
00;40;44;14 - 00;40;51;23
Chris
I look, all I'm going to say is I will be signing books. That that's all I'm committing to in Martha is I will be will be a table.
00;40;51;25 - 00;40;56;01
Derek
There will be book signings. There will be, you know, food and drink.
00;40;56;04 - 00;40;57;29
Pri
It may or may not be food and drink.
00;40;58;01 - 00;41;07;22
Chris
It sounds like a partition. I'm not wanting a bid for, any any office. No, no, no. Okay. It's kind of like, stop trying to get me to do things.
00;41;07;24 - 00;41;10;19
Aaron
That's the first thing anybody running for office says, Chris.
00;41;10;21 - 00;41;30;13
Chris
Me said the start of the show. Play the tape back, Bartleby. The Scrivener. I would prefer not to. I am deep in the mark. Great refusal to exist. I will be preferred to pipeline. Right now. My escape is not giving my effort, my energy, my attention to these systems.
00;41;30;15 - 00;41;34;06
Pri
We need to add governance. Albania's doing it.
00;41;34;08 - 00;41;39;11
Aaron
Yeah, I saw that. That was pretty cool. Do you want to run through. That was a story that I think slipped through a lot of people's.
00;41;39;11 - 00;42;02;03
Pri
I mean, I literally just I think I came across it today, but basically like they appointed the world's first I made minister and they're calling it like D'Elia. And they're going to handle like public procurement, basically. I mean, I think it's just going to be like a buddy to. Yeah, it's not like a minister for a it's like a literal eye minister, but it's doing like procurement stuff.
00;42;02;06 - 00;42;26;17
Aaron
I think that that's going to be we're going to see a lot more of the like government. Plus I use cases. I do think on the other end of wherever we're going, it's going to be a lot more of this kind of rapid intelligence just baked into different bureaucratic systems or what used to be bureaucratic systems like whether that's using AI for like procurement, like to get speed and speedy, neutral kind of corruption, free procurement processes set up.
00;42;26;17 - 00;42;50;21
Aaron
Or it's like using AI for, you know, judicial decision making or resolving disputes to proposing legislation. Like I just I don't think we're that many years away from that. And I bet somebody is going to do that earnestly, and they're just going to have a much more prosperous and stable society. I think a big part of the issue we have is there's just too many people involved, and people are fallible or at least more fallible.
00;42;50;21 - 00;43;08;04
Pri
So I guess skill one attend do things. Do things get a lot uglier before it gets better? Or are we kind of on the up and things may actually turn a corner? After all the craziness that we're experiencing in the world, globally, media, government, politics.
00;43;08;08 - 00;43;13;11
Aaron
I think we got a couple. I think we got a couple couple more notches down personally. Oh.
00;43;13;14 - 00;43;14;17
Pri
God damn it.
00;43;14;19 - 00;43;27;17
Chris
Yeah, I think we're in a six, six and a half to give you a number three. But I also think this is just a solar flare. You know, these things shoot up from time to time. You know, you never know when that will turn into, I don't know, a full blown sun storm, but,
00;43;27;19 - 00;43;48;28
Pri
I guess I agree with you. Like, I really don't know. Like, for example, I feel like the Trump an assassination, that assassination attempt rather that almost felt like in retrospect, it's all over. But like, I will say that the people online right now in reaction to this Charlie Kirk thing is like, it feels pretty next level. I don't know if that's your feed or just mine, but it does feel more.
00;43;48;29 - 00;43;52;14
Pri
It feels like the impact of this feels greater to me.
00;43;52;16 - 00;44;16;13
Derek
You know what's interesting about that comment, period? I kind of felt the same way as you and I, and I'm wondering if it's because, you know, and and just like taking my own individual politics out of it, like something that Charlie Kirk has done very well over the last few years is just be everywhere. Like he is kind of pervasive, like on the internet right now.
00;44;16;13 - 00;44;40;22
Derek
He's he understands the attention dynamics. He understands, you know, virality, clipping. He understands how to reach young people. I would argue that he meant more to this generation that feels like they're suffering or it's I mean, not obviously a very divisive figure. So in part meant more as a kind of a symbol to young people than Trump, which which may have caused what you're describing.
00;44;40;22 - 00;45;03;02
Derek
Like he's kind of everywhere. He's younger, he's earlier on his career, he represents some sort of like voice for younger people who are feeling very frustrated right now. He's, you know, like a lot of his content was constantly going viral. It kind of feels like the impact of this event is greater for that reason. Not I mean, not not saying that it's, you know, taking taking ideology out of it.
00;45;03;02 - 00;45;14;14
Derek
It's like it was almost like a yeah, felt it feels to me like it was a of greater impact. And I and I'm, I'm also trying to kind of question why that is. So it's interesting that you brought that up.
00;45;14;17 - 00;45;34;05
Aaron
He had a similar reaction, I think. I mean, my best guess there's just, you know, unlike somebody that's running for president, he was just kind of doing his thing. And debating people. Right. So just trying to exercise like First Amendment rights and for at least some group of people like that's just off the table at this point. And I think that that's deeply concerning.
00;45;34;07 - 00;45;37;27
Aaron
And then you're seeing the same thing in the UK, right. And other parts of the planet.
00;45;37;27 - 00;45;50;08
Derek
So that's a great point. It was like it's such a what is supposed to be such a normal thing to be doing in the US under our protections. And yeah, I think that's a that's a good point to earn.
00;45;50;10 - 00;46;07;19
Aaron
And that's I just think I mean, the closest pattern I have is really, you know, after like all the unrest in the late 60s, right. We just saw like a big wave of political violence. I think a lot of those people that were disgruntled, they just don't feel like they have a voice. So they're just getting louder and and, you know, more radicalized.
00;46;07;22 - 00;46;24;08
Aaron
The same thing kind of happened with like, the Weathermen and adjacent, you know, Json organizations. So it may just kind of be that, that pattern replaying itself. And now it's just in everybody's faces because of all the algorithms and social media distribution that that we have to suffer through.
00;46;24;11 - 00;47;00;08
Chris
The complexity of my thoughts around this is kind of impossible to unpack on both the podcast and with a, I don't know, it's like confusing and getting people and getting myself in trouble. I all I'm going to say is, I just wish that empathy extended outwards in all directions and that, you know, we felt more for humanity as a whole and not just aspirational figures that, you know, people look up to, that the world would be a better place if we could feel that for everyone, like we're in a very anti-human state, and I prefer to be more John Snow about this and simply say, I fight for the living or.
00;47;00;08 - 00;47;00;29
Derek
Sad.
00;47;01;02 - 00;47;01;04
Aaron
I.
00;47;01;05 - 00;47;02;02
Pri
Like that.
00;47;02;05 - 00;47;15;29
Chris
It's a great like, it's kind of weird that like, I've latched onto this, but like, yeah, John Snow, like it's become a bit of like a pointer for me right now to just simply say, I like for the living, you know, like it's a nice while.
00;47;16;03 - 00;47;20;22
Pri
What are you watching games. Only on Curser. Like, how do you even read it?
00;47;20;22 - 00;47;29;24
Chris
That was the first thing I rewatched while on cursor. Yes, free play. Thank you. If I start getting, like, deeply John Adams of any chase next next week on the pod, you'll know why.
00;47;29;26 - 00;47;32;21
Aaron
Random reference seals are savior.
00;47;32;24 - 00;47;46;19
Chris
Yeah, I feel like such a tool being like, oh, like, no. John Snow is my dude right now. You know, like that's where I'm at. Like John Snow, I fight for the living man. Let's just leave it right up there. You know, big capital human.
00;47;46;22 - 00;47;51;13
Derek
If that doesn't set the stage for Chris's political run here, I don't know what that is.
00;47;51;15 - 00;47;52;19
Pri
Yeah. Wow.
00;47;52;22 - 00;47;53;29
Chris
Stop it.
00;47;54;01 - 00;48;04;00
Aaron
I honestly king of the time. If if Chris ran for New York City mayor dressed as John Snow in character, like, full on, like, did.
00;48;04;04 - 00;48;05;28
Chris
You lose who's.
00;48;06;00 - 00;48;10;10
Aaron
Like, Daniel Day-Lewis style character acting definitely would win.
00;48;10;15 - 00;48;13;17
Pri
And one of the guys who stormed the capital dressed like that.
00;48;13;20 - 00;48;15;15
Chris
He did. Yes, yes he did.
00;48;15;15 - 00;48;18;19
Aaron
Don't do that, Chris. Do not do that. Chris.
00;48;18;21 - 00;48;22;18
Chris
No, no, I actually Erin that would be the only way I would run for mayor. I'll put.
00;48;22;18 - 00;48;22;29
Aaron
It on here.
00;48;22;29 - 00;48;37;24
Chris
For now. That's my parameter is just the North remembers and like Northwest Queens remembers. Just. I need to get myself a good sword and a wolf, and I'm ready to go.
00;48;37;27 - 00;48;46;22
Aaron
Honestly, that would work. That would fly if you went to every, you know, one of the debates with your wolf, your dire wolf sitting next to you, be amazing.
00;48;46;25 - 00;48;49;29
Chris
Oh, Lord. Can I just get a microphone, sign books and.
00;48;50;02 - 00;48;52;10
Aaron
Yeah, just do that. That's a good first step.
00;48;52;10 - 00;48;54;01
Pri
Well, yeah. Well we want to talk about next.
00;48;54;08 - 00;49;10;08
Aaron
You know, the other thing I've been thinking a lot about is just feel like these AI systems are getting more energetic and they're kind of like constantly running in the background, at least for me. I don't know if you have the same thing, Chris. And they just it's I find myself wanting a tool to kind of manage that better.
00;49;10;11 - 00;49;26;28
Aaron
And I don't know what that looks like, but I feel like the interface to kind of use AI, there's like a gap and something's going to plug it. It's kind of like I want to get like pinged or notified or I don't know, I need like some sort of like, like, observability or more observability related to them.
00;49;27;00 - 00;49;38;28
Chris
What kind of genetic systems you got running around in the background? Because I'm not there yet. I'm still very much in command and control triggered waterfalls or, like, I fired up AI to do micro sniper. My protests.
00;49;39;00 - 00;49;55;07
Aaron
Yeah. So I usually have multiple, like, tabs open, almost like a browser. And, you know, each task that I'm giving it will take anywhere from like 1 to 10 minutes to complete. And I never know when they're going to get completed. So you're kind of just like sitting there, like watching it. And it's kind of it's getting like it's like a little dry.
00;49;55;07 - 00;50;12;21
Aaron
And then at the same time, maybe either built stuff that's generating something or I'm using, let's say like, ChatGPT or like Gemini or something that's also doing that. And I need something to kind of like coordinate all that activity for me. And I feel like there's something there and that's going to be like a big layer in this, like a genetic economy.
00;50;12;24 - 00;50;17;19
Aaron
It's like that coordination layer, like notification and coordination layer.
00;50;17;22 - 00;50;36;05
Chris
So this is the first time I can really understand when people talk about AI browsers, maybe the use case or the need for them, because I'm picturing you with a browser that's almost got like a writers queue running and just saying, oh, this agent finished, let's send Aaron an alert and pull that browser into focus right now.
00;50;36;08 - 00;50;54;24
Aaron
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. We're like, oh, this is the quick output, right? And I don't want to just be sitting there waiting for it to be done. So I feel like these systems need to know better when they're going to be done. Like queued up, summarize it like tell you what the next action is so that you can quickly take that action without having to.
00;50;54;27 - 00;51;03;10
Aaron
You know, I kind of dive back into it. It's kind of like I feel like a mix of like, like email and like a, like a messaging platform in some weird way.
00;51;03;12 - 00;51;17;13
Chris
No, I was going to say you sort of need like a giant monitor with like nine browsers open and then just, a chat bot. Right? Like just like AOL messenger that you're talking to that's controlling all these things.
00;51;17;16 - 00;51;21;27
Aaron
Yeah. It's like I want, like email for my agents in like, a weird way.
00;51;22;03 - 00;51;27;09
Pri
Yeah. Maybe that's what we call it. It's like, push protocol, like push notifications for when things are done.
00;51;27;12 - 00;51;29;09
Chris
I mean, you and.
00;51;29;11 - 00;51;39;02
Pri
What's interesting is, like, Aaron's been buying these, like, three large desktops and, like, putting them next computer and has, like, multiple cursor windows running. It's kind of funny to see.
00;51;39;04 - 00;51;43;00
Chris
The really like Aaron that just has a stack of boxes next to is this.
00;51;43;03 - 00;51;43;22
Pri
Kind of.
00;51;43;25 - 00;51;45;17
Chris
Yeah, I thought that was going on.
00;51;45;17 - 00;52;04;22
Aaron
Aaron I'm building you know, like, like a portable place where you can have multiple monitors. There's the screens have gotten super cheap. Yeah, yeah, it's kind of for that reason, like, I need it there, but you don't need it to be active, you know, like you need to watch it. But if you're only doing that, you become a little less productive.
00;52;04;22 - 00;52;19;27
Aaron
But if you kind of have that running in the side, it's like helpful. I don't know, I just I it's the first time I felt the demand for something like that, which is great. You know, that that means that stuff is maturing, like the amount of activity that these systems can do with less oversight is increasing over time.
00;52;19;27 - 00;52;45;20
Aaron
I think people have been monitoring that, you know, like you can see it if you subscribe to like GPT Pro, right? Like you, you can ask it a question. It may take a couple minutes for it to complete it, and then it's a really good answer. But I feel like a lot of these tasks, there's going to be a bunch of that, whether that's like booking a trip for you or finding a restaurant or doing some sort of like everyday task to like the, you know, you know, more like knowledge, work type tasks that I think a lot of people are using these things for.
00;52;45;20 - 00;53;03;23
Aaron
So I don't know, it's getting getting wild. The other big thing that we're noticing is just like the video stuff really has crossed like the Rubicon. So I don't know how many more quarters it is till that is picture perfect. But it feels very close. I just think the media landscape is going to radically change once that that hits.
00;53;03;29 - 00;53;07;24
Aaron
Yeah, it feels like we're like pretty close to that. So that's super exciting too.
00;53;07;27 - 00;53;28;16
Chris
Yeah, that is interesting because like I got real deep in video or like Feb to April, right? I said I'm going to learn video editing and I'm going to get my hands on these models. And I kind of like wrap that effort up just as video too. And all of these things are really getting you get like cling to one or is the last model I've interacted with.
00;53;28;16 - 00;54;12;27
Chris
And I know that, like when I return, it's going to be exponentially better, which is expected. But it's also one of these things, I don't know, like there's only so much attention you can give, there's only so much focus you have. And when you turn your eye one way that doesn't mean anything else stops. And so yeah, I'm really looking forward to like, the idea that models can produce dialog, right, that we're well past, like having to strap a lip sync, a type of, you know, extra servers on top or, or deal in these, you know, janky, overlays and, you know, people like what Hedera was doing, putting, putting their own sauce on models
00;54;12;27 - 00;54;17;14
Chris
and like having this natively integrated with models, I do I'm looking forward to getting back.
00;54;17;14 - 00;54;43;18
Aaron
Oh yeah. Completely. And and then I think once you can get like kind of that consistency between different whatever scene generation limitation there's going to be, I think that that's when it just goes hyper vertical, like really fast. And I just think the, the physics of advertising, Hollywood, Bollywood, YouTube, you know, big picture like audiovisual media package environment.
00;54;43;18 - 00;54;54;01
Aaron
I just think it's going to change really quick and it feels like we're almost there. I think that's going to be like a big story in 2026. I feel like it's going to be mostly about like video a next year.
00;54;54;04 - 00;55;22;14
Chris
I will give a little tease and say, part of the reason why I'm not paying attention to video is I need to be deeper, and I need to be underneath all that and have a data orchestration and, organizational framework in which I can, rather than you type a prompt, you get a video, you can push all of this up and then apply it towards models and is far more scalable and dynamic ways.
00;55;22;15 - 00;55;33;06
Chris
That might be a little impenetrable gobbledygook. But like I do here for you on this and like I'm trying to get ahead of it or I'm trying to get in a way in which one can work with that.
00;55;33;09 - 00;55;37;22
Aaron
Yeah, it's gonna be great. I'm excited to, to learn about your next endeavor.
00;55;37;24 - 00;55;41;22
Chris
What? I'm not watching the wall. I'm. I'm not staring.
00;55;41;23 - 00;55;50;22
Aaron
Out. Chris, you don't need to watch the wall. We're going to be fine. Don't worry. With the radicalized, internet, radicalized White Walkers coming, coming towards you.
00;55;50;25 - 00;55;53;04
Chris
The night is dark and full of terror.
00;55;53;04 - 00;55;54;17
Pri
And that was good.
00;55;54;19 - 00;55;55;28
Chris
Oh, man, I think.
00;55;56;00 - 00;55;58;16
Aaron
I think I think that's the title for the episode.
00;55;58;18 - 00;55;59;13
Pri
Yeah.
00;55;59;15 - 00;56;05;08
Chris
I like there we go. We didn't even get to Wondery Flooding the Zone or a former Wondery folder.
00;56;05;11 - 00;56;06;20
Pri
Oh yeah. Yeah.
00;56;06;25 - 00;56;08;25
Aaron
What do you mean what's this?
00;56;08;27 - 00;56;15;06
Pri
You know, a Wondery, the podcast company, the founder of that is now doing like an AI podcast company.
00;56;15;08 - 00;56;16;04
Aaron
An interesting.
00;56;16;04 - 00;56;18;10
Pri
Fully AI generated podcast.
00;56;18;13 - 00;56;28;03
Chris
Thousands of pods producing thousands of episodes per week, only needing to capture 50 listeners. Do you feel threatened, Aaron Kim.
00;56;28;05 - 00;56;47;16
Aaron
Now I it's weird. The video stuff makes more sense to me than the audio stuff. I don't know, I feel like the reason people like podcasts is because of that, like authentic connection with like a personality, just like a great format for that. When like the format for like a feed is just like a quick hit, you know, audio visual, you know, mash up.
00;56;47;16 - 00;57;09;00
Aaron
Right. So I wonder if that is as is as successful, but I don't know, I could already I mean, it's already happening right on TikTok and all these other platforms. Some percentage probably is already AI generated. I just think it's going to be everywhere. Right. And I think it's also going to just change. Okay. Like how we make advertisements, like how people market things like that piece.
00;57;09;00 - 00;57;28;14
Aaron
I don't think it's fully there yet. And the stuff that is on the different social media platforms is just kind of crude. And I think the way I think about in the next year, it's it's going to actually hit, you know, more professional grade stuff and then probably surpass it. And that's exciting, right? Because that's when it kind of moves into something new.
00;57;28;14 - 00;57;30;21
Aaron
And we start to see some like new patterns emerge.
00;57;30;23 - 00;57;53;15
Chris
Yeah. You know, it's a good point. Like speaking about personalities because I probably have like four pods I listen to on a regular basis. And the stage I'm now in on my podcast listening, it's almost as much about the journey of the host and seeing where they are now at this moment in time than it is, you know, the actual content itself.
00;57;53;15 - 00;58;17;29
Chris
Like, I really want to know where Stephen West is in the world of philosophy. What revolution Mike Duncan's got his head at. Like, where Patrick Wineman is in the ancient world and how they move through those things, and they're now relating to, like, the podcast journey and like the exploration they've been on. Like, that's just as important to me as the actual storytelling and the factual information they're delivered.
00;58;18;00 - 00;58;30;18
Chris
Like, I bet there's at least four society listeners right now who are, like, positively excited that I might retire and run for mayor as New York as Jon Snow. Right. But that's a breaking development.
00;58;30;25 - 00;58;31;13
Aaron
I'm excited.
00;58;31;19 - 00;58;32;19
Chris
There you go, man.
00;58;32;23 - 00;58;51;29
Aaron
Yeah. And I mean, I guess like connecting with micro audiences. I don't know, it'll be interesting. I also think what you see with some of these like newer projects actually, and there's like a whole constellation of them where they're kind of leaning into like the next generation of marketing in a different way. And they can I think there's just like something in the air that that's all going to change, like pretty quickly.
00;58;52;01 - 00;59;05;23
Aaron
And it part of it is flooding the zone. I just don't know if you want to flood the podcast. So I feel like you've, you know, taking over the feeds is going to be a piece of it. And maybe that actually makes it so unpalatable that people stop paying as much attention to them.
00;59;05;26 - 00;59;21;12
Pri
I also feel like if you can, why listen to another air generated podcast? I mean, I guess I could see like if it's micro, like even for notebook at all. Like when I was going on my trip, I was like, I want like a full history of, you know, Montenegro. And here are the things I want to hit unpack.
00;59;21;12 - 00;59;37;16
Pri
And like, I got like, you know, a 45 minute podcast, basically like outlining the history and, like, listen to it. I'm like the car right there. And I'm like, if if you want your own custom podcast, like it's kind of easy just to create your own, like I'll just do that much work. So like, why would I listen to something that's like, hey, I that serve it up to me.
00;59;37;16 - 00;59;40;17
Pri
I don't know, maybe that's like a boomer take though.
00;59;40;20 - 00;59;48;17
Chris
No, no, no. To me, that's amazing. You write your own like Adriatic focused travel guide in podcasts.
00;59;48;19 - 00;59;52;04
Pri
Like I like to get like the history of it and everything.
00;59;52;07 - 00;59;59;22
Aaron
But that's like a Tudor romance, right? That's like for your learning. Like, that seems like a great use case to me. But that's different than, like just regurgitating the news, right?
00;59;59;29 - 01;00;12;19
Pri
Yeah. But if there which I think I generated, you could do. But like I don't need to hear like podcasts. I don't need to like get attached to like podcast hosts that are I generated, you know, to your point, Chris, on the journey. Yeah.
01;00;12;20 - 01;00;17;21
Chris
I mean Spotify flopped with that, right. Do you remember the Spotify deejay and how terrible that was?
01;00;17;21 - 01;00;19;27
Pri
Yeah, they got a lot of shit for that though.
01;00;19;29 - 01;00;29;05
Chris
At the same time though, like iHeart radio got away with this clear channel got away with this. Right. Like, I don't know, 80% of radio stations now don't have hosts.
01;00;29;09 - 01;00;29;25
Pri
Yeah, I.
01;00;29;25 - 01;00;50;24
Aaron
Will say, I do think Spotifys algorithm has gotten better and recommendation. So it may have been early, but directionally I think it is getting closer to like the AI or algorithmic jukebox, like getting better and better for you. It's interesting. I do think that all the customized learning theory, which sounds like you talked about like that, I find very compelling that that's a really amazing idea.
01;00;51;00 - 01;01;24;25
Pri
Yeah. I would highly recommend listening to that, like Alpha School Founder Podcast, because that's basically what he does. It's like whatever kids are interested in. Like let's say you love Taylor Swift or something. You're like, and are you let's say you love fashion. Like they'll teach math in a way that appeals to you, you know, based on clothing or something like the like, kind of curate your entire curriculum based on, like, things that interest you and like, you back end into learning about different things based on what fascinate to the human, which I think is kind of interesting and like they're all testing really high as a result because like, they're just able to hold
01;01;24;25 - 01;01;51;16
Pri
it in their memory much easier because it's like things are actually interested in. I thought that was I definitely think custom education is fascinating. I'm excited for that big Alpha school. Okay. Well, welcome to nerd Society. It's me, Aaron, Chris and Derek today talking internet news, culture, digital art, tech, AI and more. Just as a reminder, these opinions are our own and not of our employer.
01;01;51;17 - 01;01;53;12
Pri
Welcome to Net Society.
01;01;53;15 - 01;01;57;24
Chris
The night is dark and full of terrors. Goodbye, gang.
01;01;57;27 - 01;02;05;11
Pri
Goodbye.
01;02;05;14 - 01;02;11;22
Pri
Who?