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A podcast at the intersection of psychology and culture that intimately explores the human experience and critiques the counseling profession. Your host, Stephanie Winn, distills wisdom gained from her practice as a family therapist and coach while pivoting towards questions of how to apply a practical understanding of psychology to the novel dilemmas of the 21st century, from political polarization to medical malpractice.
What does ethical mental health care look like in a normless age, as our moral compasses spin in search of true north? How can therapists treat patients under pressure to affirm everything from the notion of "gender identity" to assisted suicide?
Primarily a long-form interview podcast, Stephanie invites unorthodox, free-thinking guests from many walks of life, including counselors, social workers, medical professionals, writers, researchers, and people with unique lived experience, such as detransitioners.
Curious about many things, Stephanie’s interdisciplinary psychological lens investigates challenging social issues and inspires transformation in the self, relationships, and society. She is known for bringing calm warmth to painful subjects, and astute perceptiveness to ethically complex issues. Pick up a torch to illuminate the dark night and join us on this journey through the inner wilderness.
You Must Be Some Kind of Therapist ranks in the top 1% globally according to ListenNotes. New episodes are released every Monday. Three and a half years after the show's inception in May of 2022, Stephanie became a Christian, representing the crystallization of moral, spiritual, and existential views she had been openly grappling with along with her audience and guests. Newer episodes (#188 forward) may sometimes reflect a Christian understanding, interwoven with and applied to the same issues the podcast has always addressed. The podcast remains diverse and continues to feature guests from all viewpoints.
208. Shane Cole
===
[00:00:00] Shane: If you're a man watching this, you have a purpose. You're here for a reason, [00:00:05] and when you start to clean up your act, get clean from pornography, start to harness this [00:00:10] energy that's been gifted to us as men. We can be not the good [00:00:15] guys, but the good men. We need good men in this world. Right now, [00:00:20] I believe the world is starving for good men.
[00:00:23] Shane: Real men who feel their [00:00:25] emotions will say like, stop putting chemicals in our water. Stop [00:00:30] polluting our planet. Stop what? The medical industrial complex there needs to be [00:00:35] powerful. Good men who will speak will say, enough is enough, and we'll have the [00:00:40] power to hold the line and to create a brighter future for all of us.
[00:00:43] Shane: Honoring and [00:00:45] respecting women, uplifting women. But I believe full-heartedly that we need [00:00:50] strong, powerful men who are connected to their hearts, who can feel their emotions. [00:00:55]
[00:00:56] SKOT: You must be some kind of therapist.[00:01:00]
[00:01:02] Stephanie: Today I'm welcoming back Shane Cole, who [00:01:05] you might recall from episode 149 where we talked about what [00:01:10] parents need to know about Sissy hypnosis pornography. I'm so excited to welcome [00:01:15] Shane back. He is a breath work practitioner and he [00:01:20] helps men overcome addiction specifically to sissy hypnosis [00:01:25] pornography.
[00:01:25] Stephanie: Today we are going to thoroughly debunk the myth that [00:01:30] sweet, sensitive smart boys like Shane do not get addicted to [00:01:35] pornography. We're gonna talk about why that's not true, why it can be a unique source of struggle for them. [00:01:40] We're also going to talk about male sexual energy, young men's purpose, and [00:01:45] endocrine disrupting chemicals in our environment.
[00:01:46] Stephanie: So I'm really excited to welcome Shane back. Welcome Shane. Thanks for joining [00:01:50] us.
[00:01:50] Shane: Hi. Thank you so much for having me back, Stephanie. We just had such a good [00:01:55] drop in before this call and I'm really excited to do another episode with you. [00:02:00]
[00:02:00] Stephanie: I'm excited too. And I was telling you that I [00:02:05] recently had someone on X where I'm quite active, as most people know, at challenging [00:02:10] me about my estimations of the prevalence of porn use in [00:02:15] trans-identified males.
[00:02:15] Stephanie: And I had actually referenced something that you said in our last [00:02:20] conversation where you estimated the prevalence to be about 99%. And [00:02:25] so whenever this comes up, I say, you know, Shane Cole clearly has some insight into this. Having [00:02:30] personally struggled with it, having coached men who've also struggled with it, having been in those online communities and [00:02:35] himself being exactly that profile of this suite.
[00:02:38] Stephanie: Smart, sensitive boy [00:02:40] who struggled with it from an early age. So I always quote you when the subject comes up [00:02:45] and I began writing an article in response to this person challenging me [00:02:50] explaining why it can be a struggle for boys of a certain profile. [00:02:55] And then I rem remembered that you and I had a part two.
[00:02:57] Stephanie: So I'm so excited to welcome you back. [00:03:00] What is the first thing that you would say, Shane, to someone who can't believe that their [00:03:05] son, maybe someone temperamentally quite like you could have ever struggled with porn addiction or [00:03:10] that that might have anything to do with his trans identity?
[00:03:13] Shane: That was my [00:03:15] struggle growing up.
[00:03:16] Shane: I was always scared [00:03:20] about hurting women, especially in high [00:03:25] school. The Me Too movement was happening [00:03:30] and I grew up. And like a very hyper [00:03:35] liberal environment. And yeah, you know, [00:03:40] learning about like third wave feminism, like women's rights like, I was always [00:03:45] like wanting to be so deeply respectful.
[00:03:47] Shane: And when the Me Too movement happened that [00:03:50] needed to happen in the culture at the time, rape culture is absolutely horrible. [00:03:55] I think a lot of things happened as a result of the Me Too movement that were [00:04:00] beneficial and not so beneficial. And for me, when I was a young boy [00:04:05] hearing this, I was like well, the world is run by very [00:04:10] toxic men.
[00:04:11] Shane: And these men have used their power to [00:04:15] exploit women. And I became [00:04:20] really terrified of my own masculinity, of my own sexual [00:04:25] energy. Because of learning about all of this. So I became [00:04:30] really scared. And this was from a place of care. Like, I don't want to be a rapist. I don't [00:04:35] want to use, I don't want to exploit women, you know, I don't wanna put women in positions like [00:04:40] that.
[00:04:40] Shane: You know, Learning in college, roughly [00:04:45] estimated that 25% of women experienced some form of sexual assault. [00:04:50] Again, me too movement. And then about to go into college, I was learning all these [00:04:55] statistics and I was just like, oh my God, this is, this is horrible. [00:05:00] Like, I don't want to be like that at all. I was already watching [00:05:05] pornography at the time.
[00:05:06] Shane: I was already watching Sissy Hypnosis pornography [00:05:10] at the time. And when I learned about these things I, I went [00:05:15] into the addiction even more. I became terrified at approaching women. [00:05:20] That I like, wanted to date, that I wanted to be in relationship with. I still dated in high [00:05:25] school, thankfully, but I was, I was that scared kid in middle [00:05:30] school.
[00:05:30] Shane: Going into high school, I was terrified to talk to women. This was before me [00:05:35] too. I was terrified. I was so scared. I was overthinking all the time. I [00:05:40] was sweet. You know, I wasn't willing to like, make the move, [00:05:45] you know, to ask someone to go on the date or to like kiss a [00:05:50] girl when like, it was like, it could have happened, you know? and like, she was looking at me [00:05:55] and like, I didn't, you know, like I wouldn't hold the, her, the girl's hand at the [00:06:00] movies 'cause I was, I was terrified 'cause I was overthinking. So I [00:06:05] was that sweet young kid that didn't wanna like, you know, take up [00:06:10] space. And then that only, so again, middle school. [00:06:15] That was when watching porn started.
[00:06:18] Shane: That was when I found Sissy [00:06:20] Hypnosis pornography. In the last episode, we went really into a deep [00:06:25] dive around what that is. I I could touch on that briefly right now to [00:06:30] give people a refresher.
[00:06:31] Stephanie: Please. I'm sure some people listening haven't heard that conversation.
[00:06:34] Shane: [00:06:35] Sissy Hypnosis pornography is a sub genre of pornographic content.[00:06:40]
[00:06:40] Shane: It uses professional grade hypnosis techniques to convince [00:06:45] whoever's watching it, typically young boys, men [00:06:50] that, that they're actually not men, that they should transition genders [00:06:55] and become a woman. Trans woman. And not only to do that, but [00:07:00] to basically become a trans prostitute. So it does [00:07:05] this through a variety of methods, starting with sissy captions, which is what I [00:07:10] first found.
[00:07:11] Shane: It was just meme, meme pictures on [00:07:15] Instagram. I was also using the app I Funny, which was like a meme [00:07:20] app back in the 2000 tens. And yeah, I found Sissy Captions, which was [00:07:25] just like pictures of really hot girls. Normal, [00:07:30] Normal women with captions, meme captions saying things like, [00:07:35] it's so much better to wear panties.
[00:07:37] Shane: Or like, we know you want to cross [00:07:40] dress or, or, then it'd start to like bully common male [00:07:45] insecurities. Like, Oh, your penis is small. You should just become a girl [00:07:50] instead. Or you're, you're so weak, you're so skinny, you would look better [00:07:55] as a woman. So it basically draw you in with the picture of a [00:08:00] hot girl and then it eroticizes the [00:08:05] insecurity that a young boy, especially a sweet, [00:08:10] sensitive kind boy is feeling about themselves [00:08:15] In middle school, very common things like your penis is small, you're skinny.[00:08:20]
[00:08:20] Shane: You, you haven't like, you haven't had a girlfriend yet, so you [00:08:25] should just become a girl. These like common insecurities, it [00:08:30] eroticizes it and then it gives you an out by becoming a girl.
[00:08:34] Stephanie: [00:08:35] That's a really excellent starting description of the architecture of that [00:08:40] entry point. The sort of thing that would be so easy for a middle school [00:08:45] boy to fall into if he has unregulated device access, or if his parents simply [00:08:50] don't know what sites and apps to block or how to block them [00:08:55] effectively.
[00:08:56] Stephanie: I love how you describe that because it's [00:09:00] easy to imagine what's happening in the boy's brain, right? It's the image that draws the boy [00:09:05] in because most of these boys are heterosexual. So of course they're attracted [00:09:10] to images of women sexual images of women especially, right? And then [00:09:15] eroticizing the insecurity.
[00:09:17] Stephanie: So linking these [00:09:20] feelings that are already bothering them somewhere in their brains, [00:09:25] which are rapidly developing their you know, not only their intellectual capacities, but their [00:09:30] emotional, relational, sexual capacities are all rapidly developing in the brain at that age. So [00:09:35] those emerging insecurities that emerging self-consciousness.
[00:09:39] Stephanie: [00:09:40] Linking that with such a powerful drive as the sex drive. Right? [00:09:45] So, So we're talking about sort of like the architecture of the, the [00:09:50] dopamine reinforcing that connection, which is why I describe it when I'm [00:09:55] talking with parents, I describe it as getting their wires crossed, right? When you're linking a powerful [00:10:00] motivator like sexuality with these other emotions.
[00:10:03] Stephanie: So you mentioned [00:10:05] insecurity. What are some of the other emotions, Shane, that these types of images and videos are [00:10:10] designed to scramble in the brain to eroticize
[00:10:14] Shane: It gets [00:10:15] deeper. So it starts with that like middle school insecurity and just like for the [00:10:20] parents, right? Like just, you know, to like paint the picture fully.
[00:10:24] Shane: [00:10:25] Like, Young boy in middle school sees this picture and they're, they're already turned [00:10:30] on. Like their penis is hard. They're masturbating, like starting to get vulgar, but like that's what's [00:10:35] happening. And then they're reading these things. That are [00:10:40] going into their brains while they're in this open, highly suggestible sexual state, [00:10:45] which is where the wires start to get crossed, which is what Stephanie was just [00:10:50] explaining, linking the dopamine reward system to some of these darker [00:10:55] aspects of our mind.
[00:10:55] Shane: So it starts with insecurity, and then as the content [00:11:00] progresses, it turns into videos. Sissy, this is, so it starts sissy [00:11:05] captions and then it goes to Sissy Hypnosis. This is where [00:11:10] you start to see more porn. Sissy captions, right? It's the [00:11:15] gateway. It's on Instagram. It was all over Tumblr, all over Reddit.
[00:11:18] Shane: It was all over. I [00:11:20] funny. I saw all of it when I was in middle school, when I was in sixth grade, [00:11:25] when I was 12, and I was masturbating to it. The first thing I ever ejaculated [00:11:30] to was sissy captions. The first thing. And [00:11:35] for a lot of these guys, it's the same story. Which is [00:11:40] devastating.
[00:11:41] Stephanie: And let me just ask you right now, back when you were 12 years old and [00:11:45] that was going on, if someone had asked your parents to describe what kind of son they had, [00:11:50] what would they have said?
[00:11:50] Shane: A sweet, sensitive young man. [00:11:55] I was a bit more like, I still did sports. Like [00:12:00] I, I played lacrosse, like I worked out, but I was, I was hyper intelligent. Like [00:12:05] I overthought everything. Yeah, I was, I was really smart. I [00:12:10] did really well in school. I hadn't kissed anyone. I, I was a [00:12:15] sweet, sensitive young man.
[00:12:17] Stephanie: I think a lot of parents need to hear [00:12:20] that.
[00:12:20] Shane: Yeah. I'm, I'm sorry. Parents if you're deluding [00:12:25] yourself that your kid isn't watching porn, but yeah, [00:12:30] 99% of boys. Right now, if they have access to the [00:12:35] internet and are in middle school, are watching pornography.
[00:12:39] Stephanie: And I know that the [00:12:40] cartoon staff is not your specialty and the men [00:12:45] that you coach are struggling specifically with sissy hypnosis pornography, and that's what you have [00:12:50] expertise in.
[00:12:50] Stephanie: But the, it's easy to imagine how the, [00:12:55] the furry anime, cartoon porn is equally, if not [00:13:00] more designed to target those young boys and [00:13:05] to appeal to their sexual feelings while [00:13:10] also preserving that childlike [00:13:15] quasi innocence and appealing to the part of the boys [00:13:20] that's afraid of hurting girls because no real females were harmed in the making of this [00:13:25] content.
[00:13:25] Shane: 100%. And like. that was like, even like on a more like [00:13:30] vanilla aspect, like I would in middle school, like I would watch a lot [00:13:35] of like, I would watch a lot of lesbian. I, I would watch [00:13:40] lesbian porn too before I went deeper into the sissy hyp note, because I like was, [00:13:45] I was disgusted by like men [00:13:50] being a man and like having sex and like that I internalized that, you know, [00:13:55] like I, I am like, I'm not okay with what's going on here, you know? so I didn't want [00:14:00] to see that. So again, it was coming from this place of care, you know, like [00:14:05] women are like the song like, women are beautiful and I don't wanna, I don't wanna [00:14:10] hurt, you know, I don't, I don't, I wanna stay away. I wanna keep my masculine [00:14:15] energy away to, to protect. But [00:14:20] repression does not lead to integration.
[00:14:24] Shane: You know. [00:14:25] Hiding ourselves. Repressing sexual energy does not create a [00:14:30] safe culture and society. And it doesn't create safety [00:14:35] within our own nervous system as well. But to go, to go back to [00:14:40] what Sissy Hypnos starts to get into the deeper layers of it it [00:14:45] starts to turn into videos. There starts to be more pornographic content.
[00:14:49] Shane: [00:14:50] It starts to, yeah, have like trans women. And [00:14:55] with the videos, it starts to get more intense. It's not just captions, [00:15:00] it's binaural beats. They're playing trance [00:15:05] music that's designed to take people deeper into a hypnotic state. They're using [00:15:10] repeated mantras. So they're like, so it's not just you're reading the captions, but [00:15:15] it's saying out loud to you and like. sexy, hypnotic voice. [00:15:20] Like, You're pathetic. You're workless like start [00:15:25] HRT. It's yeah, it's playing on shame like you are, [00:15:30] you know, like I started to feel so gross and disgusted with myself [00:15:35] as a man that like, I, I couldn't, I couldn't imagine being a man, you know? It [00:15:40] does, it, it like takes it meta at times.[00:15:45]
[00:15:45] Shane: It is saying with the repeated mantras, how you are falling [00:15:50] deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole, how you are hopelessly addicted [00:15:55] and you will never get out of this, and your only way out is to [00:16:00] become a sissy. So it's like saying like, it's crazy. Like you're MAs like I was [00:16:05] masturbating to this and eroticizing the terror [00:16:10] that I couldn't get out of this addiction
[00:16:12] Stephanie: and.
[00:16:13] Stephanie: Someone just joining us at this [00:16:15] point in the conversation with no background might say well, that's crazy. Why don't you just turn it off? Why would [00:16:20] you listen to that garbage? But I, I want people to think about [00:16:25] this happening to impressionable young boys in that cultural [00:16:30] context where boys are experiencing these surges in [00:16:35] testosterone.
[00:16:36] Stephanie: They're experiencing a heightened sex drive, new [00:16:40] emotions, new interests, all while feeling normal male [00:16:45] insecurities. And in a culture where there's a lot of [00:16:50] messaging about masculinity being toxic, add in. Now, I don't know anything [00:16:55] about your personal family background, Shane, and there's no pressure to share anything about that here, but I'm just saying from [00:17:00] the work I do with parents, there's often an added layer, especially Gen X dads [00:17:05] who had a different upbringing where masculinity [00:17:10] was healthy.
[00:17:11] Stephanie: And the Gen X dads often express it in [00:17:15] more kind of normal Gen X dad's way dad ways with occasional [00:17:20] outbursts of anger. Nothing that I've encountered [00:17:25] is, you know, would really cross the line into what's considered what I would [00:17:30] consider abuse. But it's, you know, if a [00:17:35] boy doesn't have kind of a healthy relationship with his dad, with rough and [00:17:40] tumble play and with knowing how to test the boundaries [00:17:45] of aggression, then you also have this, whatever issues a boy might have [00:17:50] with his male role model, with the way that dad expresses anger.
[00:17:54] Stephanie: And [00:17:55] then, you know, when you have like the, the way the boys are spoken to in [00:18:00] school, oftentimes by female teachers with female centric biases, then [00:18:05] there's also that layer of cultural messaging on top of. [00:18:10] Experience of dad where the cultural messaging is shaping the perception of [00:18:15] dad. And, And so there all these things I think can [00:18:20] work together to kind of create a lot of fear and shame and [00:18:25] conflict towards sexual and aggressive masculine [00:18:30] urges.
[00:18:30] Stephanie: And, And one of the things that I know that you're here to talk about today is how [00:18:35] at odds that that problem is with [00:18:40] proper harnessing of the power of male sexuality and young men being able to find their [00:18:45] purpose. Your trans identified kid won't listen to reason, because reason [00:18:50] isn't what they need right now.
[00:18:51] Stephanie: They need a parent who knows how to communicate in an [00:18:55] empathic yet strategic manner. ROGD repair gives you over [00:19:00] 120 lessons. In the psychology and communication tools that actually work when [00:19:05] normal parenting doesn't. Plus repair bot your 24 7 AI coach [00:19:10] trained on my entire body of work ready to help you navigate tough moments in real time.[00:19:15]
[00:19:15] Stephanie: Visit r ogd repair.com and use code [00:19:20] some therapist 2026 to take half off your first month. [00:19:25]
[00:19:25] Shane: I just want to go, go back to one piece just to like [00:19:30] double click on the question of like how, yeah, how, 'cause [00:19:35] I have, I've had people comment on the videos on the podcast [00:19:40] that I've done is like, why didn't you just turn it off?
[00:19:42] Shane: Like he's giving away too much of his [00:19:45] power. Like why didn't you just turn it off? So I just wanna double click on that [00:19:50] just 'cause like I've gotten commented at about that they're very powerful hypnosis [00:19:55] techniques. I've talked with, I've been on two podcasts with [00:20:00] hypnosis therapists surrounding this.
[00:20:02] Shane: One of them, I'm not gonna share [00:20:05] his name, has, he's a, he's a cult researcher. He [00:20:10] didn't actually post the podcast that we did 'cause it was too edgy for him. But he [00:20:15] said the hypnosis techniques that they are [00:20:20] utilizing in these videos are professional grade. You would have to go to [00:20:25] graduate school for hypnosis therapy to be able to understand how [00:20:30] to implement these techniques into the videos and the ways in which they're doing [00:20:35] with sissy hypnosis.
[00:20:37] Shane: So I just [00:20:40] wanna highlight this for me, like sweet sense of young boy. I was also doing a lot of [00:20:45] sports and my body wasn't pain a lot. And I was also just going through growing pain. The [00:20:50] power of this hypnosis, I would go into a complete trance state, and I wouldn't, I would [00:20:55] be completely disembodied. So any pain that I was in, in my body [00:21:00] was just like pew because I was in this like, alternate reality basically [00:21:05] because of the advanced level hypnosis techniques and with pornography [00:21:10] and with all addictions, right?
[00:21:12] Shane: The it, it has to get [00:21:15] more intense because of how our dopamine system operates. So what can [00:21:20] start as just like sissy captions or even just like looking at girls on [00:21:25] Instagram can quickly devolve [00:21:30] into finding these sub genres that play on really dark [00:21:35] emotions that utilize them to get people more and more addicted.
[00:21:38] Shane: And it's, it's [00:21:40] malevolent, it's intelligently created. And we talked more in the podcast of [00:21:45] like the last podcast of where this may have come from the theories around that, which we don't need to [00:21:50] touch on today, but I just wanna double click that. 'cause like I got, I got comments on some of my [00:21:55] past theories, like, why didn't you just turn it off, dude?
[00:21:57] Shane: I'm like, I wish I could, bro. I wish I [00:22:00] could saw And as an adult, as an adult, maybe you could. But when you're a [00:22:05] child, like this is Malevolently intelligently [00:22:10] created content.
[00:22:11] Stephanie: Let me double click on your double click.
[00:22:13] Shane: Okay.
[00:22:13] Stephanie: I saw some of those [00:22:15] same comments on my YouTube channel on our interview.[00:22:20]
[00:22:20] Stephanie: And what it reminds me of is you know, X formerly Twitter [00:22:25] recently celebrated its 20 year anniversary, and there's this post going around saying [00:22:30] what are the best tweets of all time? One of, one of the things that was [00:22:35] screenshotted a lot was this comment. It's written in how shall we say African [00:22:40] American vernacular?
[00:22:40] Stephanie: English, I believe is a technical term. Uh, You know, Very colloquial [00:22:45] uh, sort of Ebonics language, but it's like, ha ha ha ha [00:22:50] WTF. How is cyber bullying a real thing? What do you [00:22:55] mean just close the computer? Is Is essentially that message. Everyone's seen that it's been [00:23:00] screenshotted so many times and it's funny from a certain perspective 'cause a guy has a point.[00:23:05]
[00:23:05] Stephanie: But it, that is a point in [00:23:10] a reality in which, first of all, male aggression is the only type of male of [00:23:15] aggression that counts. Right? In other words, physical, overt competition [00:23:20] and violence. If that was the only thing that really affected our sense of [00:23:25] security. As humans, then cyber bullying would not be a thing.
[00:23:27] Stephanie: However, female typical social [00:23:30] aggression is kind of the name of the game in first world societies, and that includes [00:23:35] reputation, destruction and, you know, smear campaigns and all that kind of stuff that, you know, I've certainly been a, a [00:23:40] victim of, as listeners of this podcast know cyber bullying is a real thing.
[00:23:44] Stephanie: And [00:23:45] so it's the same logic, right? When there's, When there's a part of your brain that's [00:23:50] wired for threat detection and you know that your status [00:23:55] in the tribe depends on your reputation, and that, that's a, [00:24:00] that's a deep inclination that we all have. And you know that a bunch of people [00:24:05] are saying some destructive nonsense about you.
[00:24:07] Stephanie: How are you supposed to turn off your awareness of [00:24:10] that? How are you supposed to just close the computer and say it doesn't matter when all these people are trying to destroy your [00:24:15] reputation? I feel like it's a similar thing. When you have a young person [00:24:20] whose drives have been hijacked. Again, these deep drives we have for connection, [00:24:25] belonging our, our desire to protect our status within the community.
[00:24:28] Stephanie: And sex [00:24:30] drive is also connected to your, your need for connection to other humans, right? So when that [00:24:35] drive has been hijacked by something that you've seen online how, [00:24:40] how are you supposed to just shut that down? Similarly, another element I wanna highlight here [00:24:45] and, and this is really, really key for parents to understand, is [00:24:50] that one has to have a clear sense of their own preferences in order [00:24:55] to have that mental awareness, that discernment that goes, this [00:25:00] isn't an alignment with my preferences and what I want for my life, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna stop [00:25:05] it.
[00:25:05] Stephanie: That takes executive functioning and a sense of identity when you're talking about a 12, [00:25:10] 13, 14-year-old. When you're talking about, you know, anyone under the age of 25, [00:25:15] really depending on their personal development trajectory to have that [00:25:20] sense of, I separate from what I'm seeing in the screen, separate from what the algorithm is feeding me.
[00:25:24] Stephanie: You [00:25:25] don't have that. And that's why I see kids getting traumatized by what they're [00:25:30] exposed to through the algorithms. And I work with parents, for example, parents where they're [00:25:35] divorced and custody is shared, and the kid has vastly different rules in each [00:25:40] household. So when, let's say the, the kid comes back to mom, [00:25:45] mom's very disturbed to see how many hours a day that kid spent on YouTube [00:25:50] when she was at her father's house.
[00:25:54] Stephanie: But what can she [00:25:55] do? She can't do anything because that's her father's right to park the kid on the [00:26:00] iPad all day, right? So when that kid is on YouTube for six hours a day because dad's [00:26:05] ignoring her, there's not, like when you're exposed to an algorithm as a [00:26:10] kid, you're not thinking, I'm choosing this in the same way that [00:26:15] you would choose a book off a shelf or choose a piece of clothing outta your wardrobe or choose a [00:26:20] snack out of the fridge, right?
[00:26:21] Stephanie: There's not, here are the options and I'm selecting the one I [00:26:25] want. There's more like, there's this feedback loop between me and the algorithm, and [00:26:30] before long I don't know what I want. It's just feeding me something and, and convincing me [00:26:35] that that's what I want. So I think there's genuine confusion in these kids about what they would [00:26:40] select if these algorithms and devices didn't have like a if, if, [00:26:45] if they didn't hijack our limbic system.
[00:26:46] Stephanie: You know what I mean?
[00:26:47] Shane: 100%. And that's why [00:26:50] for me, breath work, meditation, nervous system regulation [00:26:55] has been so key in my recovery in my journey [00:27:00] because there. Methods of [00:27:05] regaining that agency, of reclaiming our [00:27:10] dopamine system of being able to choose what we [00:27:15] focus on. It's absolutely critical and most adults honestly don't [00:27:20] even have that capacity.
[00:27:22] Shane: So these tools have [00:27:25] been so important for me because we're, we're in, we're living in the [00:27:30] attention economy. Our attention is, has turned [00:27:35] into the most valuable commodity in late [00:27:40] stage capitalism. It is, It is the most valuable thing. The amount that our [00:27:45] eyes are on the screen is, is what all these tech [00:27:50] companies are going for.
[00:27:51] Shane: All the porn companies. Everything. [00:27:55] And they, they're increasingly [00:28:00] developing more intelligent algorithms and more disgusting and [00:28:05] outrageous pornography and content to take our attention from [00:28:10] us so they can make money off of ads. So again, there are many, there are [00:28:15] many ways out of this. But for me, this has been my central [00:28:20] healing modality for myself and what I help my clients cultivate.[00:28:25]
[00:28:25] Shane: The ability to focus, the ability to be present, the ability to feel our [00:28:30] emotions and be present with our emotions instead of numbing out [00:28:35] with the endless variety of consumerism that we could go [00:28:40] into. But it's critical Developing these skills are critical. Absolutely critical.
[00:28:44] Stephanie: Tell [00:28:45] us about. That connection between what you do with the breath work [00:28:50] and your coaching men through this addiction and what all that [00:28:55] has to do with the power of male sexual energy, their purpose.
[00:28:59] Shane: I've come a [00:29:00] long way during C-O-V-I-D-I was watching sissy hypno [00:29:05] multiple times a day. I was ejaculating constantly. [00:29:10] I was going to, I started to take hormones. I started to do hormone [00:29:15] replacement therapy. I only did it for three weeks before I stopped [00:29:20] and there was a divine intervention that came into my life.
[00:29:24] Shane: It was a very [00:29:25] beautiful, and I got sent on a different path. And now I am, I'm [00:29:30] at a very different place. I'm able to practice. [00:29:35] Sexual energy ization, and we'll dive into like a bit more [00:29:40] of what that means and what these practices are. The male [00:29:45] sexual energy is one of the most powerful forces [00:29:50] on the planet.
[00:29:51] Shane: I always tell my clients that I'm working with it's [00:29:55] the equivalent to, or potentially more powerful than the [00:30:00] atomic bomb. Think about the wars that have been fought in history [00:30:05] over wanting, wanting the woman, wanting that queen. [00:30:10] You know? Think about all the damage that has been done from rape [00:30:15] culture.
[00:30:15] Shane: We're seeing right now, and we don't have to dive into the details, but with the Epstein files, [00:30:20] right? There's like a lot of darkness that can be [00:30:25] done through the mismanagement of. Male sexual [00:30:30] energy of male life force energy. And what happens when we're [00:30:35] kids is our dads give us one talk, maybe [00:30:40] if we're lucky.
[00:30:41] Shane: And I, the talk for me was like, yeah, like [00:30:45] wear a condom, be respectful, [00:30:50] and that's it. And we're basically left to the wolves of [00:30:55] pornography to teach us how to be in sexual relation. It's not our [00:31:00] dad's fault, right? Our dads, Our dads don't know these practices. But yeah, I've been [00:31:05] able to dive really deep into men's work.
[00:31:07] Shane: I've been able to dive really deep [00:31:10] into eastern mystical practices, traditions. [00:31:15] Buddhism with meditation has been very helpful. But I wanna talk specifically about the [00:31:20] DAOs tradition. Where Qigong, where Kung fu, where Tai [00:31:25] Chi where these martial arts practices originated from. [00:31:30] These monks realized that the seamen [00:31:35] is a very powerful force and they [00:31:40] designed practices to help cultivate this energy [00:31:45] and utilize it in healthy ways for their emotional [00:31:50] and spiritual development.
[00:31:51] Shane: So the primary practice, they utilize the semen [00:31:55] retention not ejaculating to harness this power. [00:32:00] We know with modern biology. When we practice semen [00:32:05] retention, our semen, it's so fascinating. We have it's not just the semen that's [00:32:10] there. The fluid is filled with proteins with vitamins, with [00:32:15] minerals, with zinc.
[00:32:16] Shane: That basically when we [00:32:20] start to retain, it starts to go back into our nervous [00:32:25] system. So we can create more strength, more energy, [00:32:30] and more life force and become more attractive as men [00:32:35] when we utilize this energy. So there's like a whole, [00:32:40] there's a whole family of people on YouTube [00:32:45] and in the porn addiction space called No fap.
[00:32:48] Shane: I don't know if you've heard about the [00:32:50] No fp people so, right. it's like, don't masturbate, just like don't do. [00:32:55] Right, And like utilize this energy to create a [00:33:00] better life, right? It's not just like we can be stronger, we have more [00:33:05] focus, we have more energy, more clarity, more testosterone. We're operating [00:33:10] as our bodies should be as men, when we have higher [00:33:15] testosterone, when we have higher sperm count maybe this is a place we can dip [00:33:20] into swan's work and then come back.
[00:33:23] Stephanie: Yeah. So thanks for [00:33:25] inviting me onto my soapbox. I we, we, we had a nice little chat for [00:33:30] listeners. You know, We had a nice little chat before we started recording about all the things we wanted to talk about. And [00:33:35] this is so important because we know for a fact that testosterone [00:33:40] levels and sperm counts have declined at least 50% in the last 50 years thanks to the work of [00:33:45] Dr.
[00:33:45] Stephanie: Shauna Swan. I've read her book Countdown and I also wanted to. [00:33:50] Point people to the new documentary just came out on Netflix called The Plastic [00:33:55] Detox, which features Dr. Shauna Swan as well as six couples struggling with [00:34:00] infertility who go through her sort of plastic detox lifestyle [00:34:05] program to see if it helps with their fertility issues.
[00:34:07] Stephanie: And I, I won't give any spoilers about what we learned through that [00:34:10] process, but endocrine disrupting chemicals are in, in the environment are a real thing and. [00:34:15] My soapbox on this issue is that I think we in the gender critical [00:34:20] community need to be talking about this a lot more. What I've encountered is that there is [00:34:25] emotional reasoning that gets in the way of people taking an honest look at what is going on with environmental [00:34:30] toxicity and how that could be shaping the current you know, skyrocketing rates of [00:34:35] so-called gender dysphoria and trans ideation.
[00:34:37] Stephanie: Personally, with my conspiracy [00:34:40] theorist tinfoil hat on, I suspect that part of [00:34:45] the push from the top down to normalized trans identity and medicalized gender [00:34:50] dysphoria. Feels to me like a bit of a coverup for how [00:34:55] much our food and air and water and [00:35:00] lifestyle have been polluted by these chemicals that affect our endocrine system.
[00:35:04] Stephanie: [00:35:05] If people are saying, I don't feel entirely masculine, or I don't feel entirely feminine, [00:35:10] and that becomes an identity that you need to respect, a [00:35:15] demographic that deserves equal rights rather than a sign of an environmental problem, then guess [00:35:20] who that lets off the hook, the big corporations that are poisoning us.
[00:35:23] Stephanie: So that's [00:35:25] part of my soapbox. And here's the thing. Look, I just released an article on my substack within the last couple [00:35:30] weeks about PCOS in girls, right? We know polycystic ovarian syndrome [00:35:35] is on the rise, which is a condition among other things that includes higher androgen levels. [00:35:40] We also know from the work of Dr.
[00:35:41] Stephanie: Shauna Swan that there is a measure. Now it's, it's [00:35:45] not a measure. Most people are going to, be rushing to analyze in themselves or [00:35:50] the offspring. But there is a measure, it's called anal genital distance. It's literally the distance [00:35:55] from the ais to the genitals that can be measured in babies. That is a reliable [00:36:00] indicator of both phthalate exposure and therefore things downstream of that, [00:36:05] including PCOS and autism.
[00:36:07] Stephanie: And who do we know is at especially high [00:36:10] risk of developing gender dysphoria?
[00:36:11] Shane: People with autism,
[00:36:12] Stephanie: people with autism, [00:36:15] girls with PCOS are overrepresented in this population. Right? What else correlates [00:36:20] with all this obesity? So is this a real [00:36:25] thing? I think it's a real thing, but here's the problem with the gender critical community, and here's where I'm gonna go on my rant.[00:36:30]
[00:36:30] Stephanie: People don't wanna talk about this for a couple of reasons. So [00:36:35] one is. I think people in the gender critical community, including parents of RD kids, do not want to [00:36:40] give any credence to the idea that there could be a real biological [00:36:45] component to gender dysphoria. And another [00:36:50] reason that people don't wanna look at this is because of parental guilt.[00:36:55]
[00:36:55] Stephanie: The idea that you should have some, you should have done something differently when you were pregnant, when you were breastfeeding, when you [00:37:00] were raising your children to minimize their plastic exposure. So [00:37:05] that's emotional reasoning, right? And it's okay to have your emotions, [00:37:10] but we can't let emotional reasoning get in the way of, you know, on the broader scale of [00:37:15] society, being able to talk honestly about difficult issues.
[00:37:19] Stephanie: Okay, so [00:37:20] let me break down those two myths. Just because [00:37:25] there may be a biological component to [00:37:30] gender dysphoria does not mean that medicalizing. Is the right way to [00:37:35] go. Does not mean that a person, you know, a girl saying, I don't feel female, a [00:37:40] boy saying, I don't feel masculine. That doesn't mean that those claims [00:37:45] mean something about the person's identity and mean that they need to further [00:37:50] contaminate their bodies with wrong sex hormones.
[00:37:53] Stephanie: Those two things do not follow, [00:37:55] right? We can take this seriously. We can look at the fact that girls [00:38:00] with PCOS who claim to be trans probably have higher androgen levels and [00:38:05] their hormones are wonky, right? We can look at that and we can view that as a medical and a psychiatric issue [00:38:10] without believing that the Protran lobby has got this right.
[00:38:14] Stephanie: We can think they've [00:38:15] got it absolutely wrong. Second of all. Mom guilt. Dad Guilt. [00:38:20] Okay, I hear you. But you know, You gotta let that go at some point. [00:38:25] Like we cannot all control our exposure to environmental endocrine disrupting chemicals. And [00:38:30] yes, you can look back and realize that you drank from too many plastic water bottles, or you used too many [00:38:35] scented products before you learned about phalates and parabens.
[00:38:39] Stephanie: Okay. [00:38:40] Like, you know, We're all a little poisoned. You know, I'm, I'm sitting here poisoned, [00:38:45] like I got COVID. Same here. I got COVID once and I've had dysautonomia and chronic fatigue [00:38:50] ever since. So, you know, It, yes it, it sucks sometimes to [00:38:55] come to terms with the biological warfare going on in our own bodies.
[00:38:58] Stephanie: But [00:39:00] we have to be able to speak about these things. So I actually think. That there [00:39:05] is a biological component for many of these people. Does that mean it's not a social contagion? No it's, it's, it's a [00:39:10] confluence of factors. But could those be related? Absolutely. Right. [00:39:15] That's again, when I put my tinfoil hat on and I go, maybe the very same [00:39:20] wealthy and powerful people who are poisoning us with these chemicals through [00:39:25] unregulated industries, maybe they have a vested interest in covering up [00:39:30] the evidence of the problem by saying, oh, this is an identity you need to respect.
[00:39:33] Stephanie: This is a demographic that [00:39:35] deserves equal rights. This is a genuine, okay, that is my [00:39:40] soapbox. If you don't believe me, go read Dr. Shauna Swan's book countdown, or go watch the plastic [00:39:45] detox on Netflix and ran,
[00:39:46] Shane: or just look up atrazine [00:39:50] like there is studied research like Alex Jones was saying, [00:39:55] like there are chemicals in the water that are turning the frogs gay, and like there's actual [00:40:00] research on araz.
[00:40:02] Shane: So like, yeah, it's, and look, people
[00:40:04] Stephanie: let,
[00:40:04] Shane: [00:40:05] it's out there.
[00:40:05] Stephanie: I will just say the same, trying to say this in almost every conversation I have on this [00:40:10] podcast now, like parents who are listening, this is not where I give advice on [00:40:15] how to talk to your kids about these issues. So my advice on how to talk to your kids is in my [00:40:20] program, RGD repair.
[00:40:22] Stephanie: So, you know, I don't think it's necessarily [00:40:25] going to go over well. 'cause I have had moms come to me and say that they've done things like, you know, [00:40:30] their daughter has PCOS and autism and gender dysphoria. And the mom will say something [00:40:35] like, maybe what you actually need is estrogen, not testosterone. Okay.
[00:40:38] Stephanie: Fair point mom. [00:40:40] But that's not gonna go over well with your daughter. So if you wanna learn what, what will go over, well join my [00:40:45] program here on this podcast. We're not giving advice for how to talk about these issues. We're having the behind the [00:40:50] scenes chat in the gender critical scene for people who already agree with these perspectives and wanna [00:40:55] understand them better.
[00:40:56] Stephanie: So, Shane, back to you.
[00:40:57] Shane: Totally. So, Yeah, I, I love this [00:41:00] conversation. Because tying it back to semen retention, [00:41:05] to sexual energy optimization, what do we do with this energy that we're [00:41:10] cultivating? Right? So there's the NOFA scene, which is like, don't masturbate, bro. [00:41:15] Like, Just go on a streak. And like they just like, these guys just end up failing [00:41:20] and like relapsing into porn.
[00:41:21] Shane: 'Cause they have nothing to do with this energy. They're building up all this [00:41:25] testosterone, they're building up all this power, they're increasing their sperm count. And I just wanna say, you [00:41:30] know, as I said, I've come a long way. I was taking estrogen at one point. I just got my [00:41:35] blood work done for the first time this November after practicing semen [00:41:40] retention.
[00:41:40] Shane: For a year and a half. I didn't, I didn't hold it for that long, but I was [00:41:45] in active practice. And my testosterone levels were [00:41:50] higher. Then baseline average. I was like, okay, great. Like, it's, It's doing the thing [00:41:55] that I, that I wanted it to do. So what do we do with this energy? How, how is this, [00:42:00] How is this beneficial?
[00:42:01] Shane: Because testosterone's been kind of like demonized. It's like, why? [00:42:05] Like why would, why would you want that? You know? Like, Don't you just wanna be a chill [00:42:10] like, sensitive sweet man? Don't you wanna be the good guy? Like, Oh, [00:42:15] I'm just a good guy. Like, Oh he, he's such a good guy. He's [00:42:20] such a good guy. We don't want that.
[00:42:22] Shane: Good guys are typically right. [00:42:25] Repressing their sexual energy, watching a lot of porn. [00:42:30] Really scared to interact with women. And then when they do interact with women, it comes off as creepy or like [00:42:35] they don't know how to approach in the right way. And I was there like I, I know what that's like.
[00:42:39] Shane: I [00:42:40] know what that's like, not speaking from a place of judgment. But when we start to increase our [00:42:45] testosterone just for like young boys watching where like, I'm, [00:42:50] maybe I'm like struggling. Maybe you're struggling with porn right now or attracting women, you get more [00:42:55] strength, right? Like you can work out more, you can become more physically attractive, you can hold [00:43:00] muscle for longer.
[00:43:01] Shane: You can become more attractive to women. It's [00:43:05] great. Like I've, I've seen it firsthand. I used to think that I could never [00:43:10] attract anyone into my life. And I am, I have the most beautiful [00:43:15] partner ever right now. Like we started dating three months ago. She's [00:43:20] so fantastic. I love her so, so much. So great.
[00:43:24] Shane: So [00:43:25] we can start to attract people into our lives that are more [00:43:30] aligned, that are really beautiful, high quality people. As we let go of [00:43:35] pornography as we clear our minds from that sexual drunk [00:43:40] and we start to harness this power to become more masculine men, there were [00:43:45] practices that the no fab culture doesn't know like Qigong, like [00:43:50] Tai Chi, which is, was created by these monks to channel [00:43:55] that sexual energy to circulate it throughout the body.
[00:43:59] Shane: The Tao is say [00:44:00] that in these practices, you can circulate the sexual energy to nourish your organs, [00:44:05] to nourish your brain, to become more intelligent. That's why the NOFA community [00:44:10] fails, because they don't know how to circulate the energy. All the energy gets stuck. [00:44:15] Down in the hips, down in the balls, and it doesn't have anywhere to go.
[00:44:18] Shane: So people relapse into [00:44:20] porn. So there's nervous system regulation, tools, meditation, Qigong, [00:44:25] which is the things, breath work, which is the things that I help men with in my [00:44:30] coaching program to start to circulate that energy. [00:44:35] So once that energy is circulated, the mind becomes clear. I can focus [00:44:40] on things for hours.
[00:44:41] Shane: I can get a ton of work done. I mean, There's this whole book, think [00:44:45] and Grow Rich, Napoleon Hill. I don't know if you've heard of that book, Stephanie. But yeah a, [00:44:50] a a something he talks about is semen retention in that book. [00:44:55] Fascinating. So, And that's in like western culture, right? So we start to get more [00:45:00] focus.
[00:45:01] Shane: Then what do we focus on? [00:45:05] What do we choose to direct our will towards? [00:45:10] And for me, and what I help my clients [00:45:15] figure out is come into this [00:45:20] understanding that we are in a very troubled world right now. We are being [00:45:25] poisoned by big corporations. We're in a mental health epidemic. I would say not [00:45:30] everyone would agree that there's a climate crisis that many [00:45:35] species are becoming endangered or being di are dying off.
[00:45:38] Shane: We're in a mass extinction event right [00:45:40] now. We're in a very troubled place and [00:45:45] we can choose to [00:45:50] direct our will and energy to take [00:45:55] responsibility in creating this world a more beautiful. Creating [00:46:00] a more beautiful, a more happy, a more vibrant, a more healthy world. [00:46:05] So many men feel like right now, they don't have a purpose.
[00:46:09] Shane: We're [00:46:10] like, there's so many doomsday narratives right now. There's so [00:46:15] much fear, there's so much terror. Yeah we're, we're in a global conflict. [00:46:20] Like, There's we're, we're in a really intense time right now and a lot of people feel [00:46:25] like there's nothing to do, that there's nothing they can do that it's too overwhelming.
[00:46:29] Shane: [00:46:30] And this just, okay, like then we'll just watch porn and forget about it, [00:46:35] you know, and numb out to the fact that the world's in a really dark place right now. [00:46:40] But what I help my clients. Find is their purpose. [00:46:45] We workshop. What's your purpose here? This is a very precious moment in [00:46:50] human history.
[00:46:51] Shane: While there is a lot of unrest, a lot of darkness it's a period of [00:46:55] revolution. And we can play a role in that. We can speak up, we can create [00:47:00] change, we can create technologies that can impact the world in a beautiful [00:47:05] way. For me, in my outward work, I work a lot in [00:47:10] the festival community, in the electronic dance music community hosting mass [00:47:15] meditations.
[00:47:15] Shane: I bring hundreds, thousands of people together to meditate together. [00:47:20] People can feel massive amount of peace expansion when we're in these [00:47:25] communities, right? 'cause I have this narrative that I, you know, I [00:47:30] went to school for psychology. I was doing my master's as a LPC. I didn't [00:47:35] finish fully. We need to create a culture that people [00:47:40] feel a sense of belonging.
[00:47:41] Shane: That mental health is woven [00:47:45] into the fabric of our culture, not just therapy that you go [00:47:50] to that's, that's parsed off from the situation of the world that we're in. [00:47:55] But if you're a man watching this, you have a purpose. You're [00:48:00] here for a reason. And when you start to clean up your act like [00:48:05] I did, get clean from pornography, start to harness this energy that's [00:48:10] been gifted to us as men.
[00:48:12] Shane: That can be not the good [00:48:15] guys, but the good men. We need good men in this [00:48:20] world. Right now, the world, I believe the world is starving [00:48:25] for good men. Real men who feel their emotions, who will say like. [00:48:30] no like, stop putting chemicals in our water. [00:48:35] Stop polluting our planet. Stop with the medical industrial complex.[00:48:40]
[00:48:40] Shane: There needs to be powerful, good men who will speak, who will [00:48:45] say enough is enough and will have the power to hold the line and to [00:48:50] create a brighter future for all of us. Honoring and respecting women, [00:48:55] uplifting women. But I believe full-heartedly that we need strong, [00:49:00] powerful men who are connected to their hearts, who can feel their emotions.
[00:49:04] Shane: That's [00:49:05] my soapbox. Like, that's, That's what I'm helping men with in my one-on-one work. It's [00:49:10] been fantastic to see the evolution that people go through. I mean, My own [00:49:15] was crazy. I'm, I'm this leader now in a very public space, [00:49:20] and I, I hadn't. Four years ago when I was taking hormones, I [00:49:25] never thought that I could do anything as powerful and as uplifting [00:49:30] and be so visible to the world as I am now.
[00:49:33] Shane: It's crazy.
[00:49:34] Stephanie: I wanna [00:49:35] circle back to that and go even deeper into that positive note. But [00:49:40] first, here's what I'd like to do. Yeah. I'd like to take a break and when we get back, I wanna [00:49:45] talk about the alternative path that many young men sadly [00:49:50] take. The false solution of estrogen and why [00:49:55] estrogen and drugs like spironolactone and sometimes progesterone, things like [00:50:00] this.
[00:50:00] Stephanie: Why these feminizing hormones and testosterone suppressing chemicals. [00:50:05] Feel like a solution to these young men feel like a solution to the [00:50:10] out of control sexual urges, the porn addiction and things like that. And then I'd like to [00:50:15] contrast that path with the path of purpose that you described. Are you a freethinking [00:50:20] therapist looking for like-minded community?
[00:50:22] Stephanie: The Association for Mental Health [00:50:25] Professionals is a sanctuary for holistic critical thinking counselors and therapists who [00:50:30] want to stand firm in our values and reclaim our profession. From ideologues, A [00:50:35] MHP offers its members a blog and podcast, monthly webinars, and an annual [00:50:40] conference each fall in Texas.
[00:50:42] Stephanie: Visit Association for mental health [00:50:45] professionals.org to join a growing number of like-minded therapists who want our [00:50:50] profession back. Alright, now back to the show. So before we circle back to [00:50:55] those beautiful points you were just making and hopefully end on a positive note. Yeah. I wanna talk [00:51:00] about why estrogen feels.
[00:51:02] Stephanie: Like a solution to these boys. And again, when I say [00:51:05] estrogen, I mean typically a testosterone blocker like spironolactone [00:51:10] plus estrogen, estradiol, maybe some progesterone. You know, These boys are on different [00:51:15] cocktails. I've heard different timelines like starting spironolactone for a couple months before [00:51:20] introducing estrogen.
[00:51:21] Stephanie: I've also heard of the opposite, where a boy will use a higher [00:51:25] dose of estrogen instead of taking a testosterone suppressor. I mean, All of [00:51:30] this is carcinogenic, so it's just complete quack [00:51:35] science. But I wanna talk about why it feels like a solution to these boys, [00:51:40] because, you know, one of the things we're doing in this podcast, and hopefully we're doing it well, hopefully [00:51:45] listeners will let us know with some supportive comments if we are successfully tackling the [00:51:50] myth that sweet, smart, sensitive boys don't use porn.
[00:51:54] Stephanie: You know, We've [00:51:55] explained why it's more complicated for them and how they can get their wires crossed and how they [00:52:00] don't wanna hurt women and, and the guilt and shame that they feel. [00:52:05] And, you know, another element of it that I think that you've begun to address [00:52:10] is how out of control and scary sexual urges can feel for [00:52:15] young men.
[00:52:15] Stephanie: It's like, I think sometimes when I'm talking to parents, some of them, not all of them, [00:52:20] but some of them, forget what it's like to be young and fertile [00:52:25] and you know, not necessarily feeling in control of these [00:52:30] urges, not feeling that they're manageable and how scary that must be [00:52:35] when you don't have any experience, when you don't have a [00:52:40] partner.
[00:52:40] Stephanie: Right. And how the wires can get crossed because your [00:52:45] outlet is pornography and masturbation. But, I [00:52:50] think a big part of the reason that some of these young men end up medicalizing, in addition to the sissy hypno content, which [00:52:55] is your area of expertise, is that those drugs suppress [00:53:00] testosterone and therefore lower their sexual drives.
[00:53:03] Stephanie: And that, I think, can [00:53:05] feel like a relief to young men who feel out of control of their sex drives. What would you say about that, [00:53:10] Shane?
[00:53:10] Shane: I 100% agree. Wrapping back to the Me Too [00:53:15] movement, male sexual energy has been demonized [00:53:20] in our culture. And it's, it's energy. [00:53:25] It's just energy. It's, It's how we use it and we, it's [00:53:30] not anyone's fault because we don't have the proper tools to utilize it correctly.
[00:53:34] Shane: But [00:53:35] at its current state it's, it's dark, it's [00:53:40] hurt, it's created a lot of pain in our world, in our culture, and [00:53:45] that can be really scary for young boys who really care. So yes, it's [00:53:50] like, oh my God, I get to escape. This is totally apart from me. I get to escape [00:53:55] this demon that's inside of me that just culture's told me is just [00:54:00] gonna rape and destroy and take for itself.
[00:54:03] Shane: So it it, [00:54:05] it gives, it gives an out. It, it, It turns it down. You know, Another part of it is [00:54:10] anger has been demonized in our culture as [00:54:15] well. Yeah. And that's because anger has been [00:54:20] misplaced, right? Like a lot of like Gen X dads like, you know, [00:54:25] you're talking about take, you know, if, if there's anger, take it out [00:54:30] on their wife or their kids, and we can talk about this [00:54:35] more.
[00:54:35] Shane: Like a big part for me in like this [00:54:40] evolving masculinity is reclaiming my anger. And having [00:54:45] anger towards the society that is producing all this [00:54:50] harm, having anger towards the people who are producing sissy hypno, [00:54:55] having anger towards people who are putting chemicals in the water. That [00:55:00] anger can be vital energy that we can utilize to make the world a better place.
[00:55:04] Shane: [00:55:05] But we're giving, we're society's giving [00:55:10] us ways to suppress that. Giving young boys a way to su suppress that. [00:55:15] There's no space for anger, for sweet, smart, sensitive [00:55:20] boys. There's no place for that. They don't want to be angry. They don't want to be [00:55:25] harmful. So again if, if they can take something [00:55:30] that will repress anger and make them more agreeable and more [00:55:35] kind and more sweet, that's a great out. That's a great out.
[00:55:39] Stephanie: [00:55:40] And the vast majority of these boys do have [00:55:45] anger because most humans have anger. It's a rare human, [00:55:50] I'm not gonna say there aren't people who don't feel anger. 'cause I'm, I'm [00:55:55] married to someone who's probably like in the, like lowest percentile in terms of how much he [00:56:00] feels and expresses anger.
[00:56:01] Stephanie: And that is genuinely my husband's nature. [00:56:05] Like some people just don't feel that much anger, but most people do. [00:56:10] And including the people for whom it's in conflict with their [00:56:15] identity. For whom anger is, as I've spoken about in different contexts, ego [00:56:20] dystonic for them. In other words, the sensation of anger does not fit with [00:56:25] who they see themselves to be.
[00:56:26] Stephanie: So Shane, you just articulated how [00:56:30] estrogen and that class of drugs that it goes along with are an escape bold [00:56:35] from the anger. And the sex drive. There's a couple other angles I wanna address this [00:56:40] issue from as well. So one is that many of these boys [00:56:45] are, and frankly the girls as well, are quite alexathymic, meaning they have difficulty [00:56:50] naming and recognizing and identifying emotions.
[00:56:53] Stephanie: And some of [00:56:55] that might be the autism in some cases. Some of it might be just lack of emotional [00:57:00] intelligence training. What they, their cultural influences have been, many aren't [00:57:05] very emotionally literate, and they're also quite dissociated from [00:57:10] spending so much time online, whether it's gaming, porn, whatever they're doing online.[00:57:15]
[00:57:15] Stephanie: I think as a result, when estrogen makes them feel emotional, [00:57:20] there's a sense of like, oh, I finally have emotions. I'm finally in touch with [00:57:25] emotions. I hear this a lot through the parent self reports, and it's a synthetic [00:57:30] induced, it's a chemically induced emotional state Now, as a woman. [00:57:35] I can see that from a different angle because when I was younger and I tried going on hormonal birth [00:57:40] control, it made me feel crazy.
[00:57:41] Stephanie: I could not stop crying. Like I'm already a sensitive emotional [00:57:45] woman who has hormonal fluctuations. But when I took birth control, when I was taking [00:57:50] synthetic hormones, I was crying nonstop. I was [00:57:55] way too emotional and it felt like I was poisoning myself. But I'm thinking, okay, what if I was an [00:58:00] Lexi Thymic male who is a little autistic and hardly feels [00:58:05] anything and it has no emotional awareness, and I took those same chemicals, [00:58:10] would I have a sense of, oh, finally I have feelings.
[00:58:14] Stephanie: And I think that [00:58:15] is like what it is for some of these boys. And I'll tell you what happens when I talk to the [00:58:20] parents, sometimes the parents haven't put two and two together yet. So they'll come to me and they'll tell me about a really emotional [00:58:25] exchange they had with their son, and they'll say, oh yeah, and we were talking about this gender [00:58:30] stuff and we were crying, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[00:58:32] Stephanie: And I'm like, wait a minute. Had your son ever [00:58:35] cried before? Okay, when did he start taking estrogen? And then we figure out the timeline. I'm like, he [00:58:40] was crying because he was on drugs, [00:58:45] and he's romanticized the idea of having emotions at [00:58:50] all E even though this is a synthetic, chemically induced sense of [00:58:55] emotion.
[00:58:55] Stephanie: So that's one angle. And then the other angle I wanna make sure to address [00:59:00] is that many of these boys are conflicted and [00:59:05] have ambivalence pulling them in different directions. So one of the tools I teach in my course is how to [00:59:10] recognize your child's signs of ambivalence and endow and inner conflict and work with that.
[00:59:14] Stephanie: But I [00:59:15] think some of these boys have a love hate relationship with their sexuality. In other words, [00:59:20] when they're overwhelmed by their sexual urges and maybe addicted to porn and masturbation, they want nothing [00:59:25] more than to go on spironolactone and estrogen and suppress that sex drive. [00:59:30] Then once that's working.
[00:59:33] Stephanie: They can't even get an erection [00:59:35] anymore. They want it back. So I think it can really go both ways and that, that [00:59:40] contradiction explains some of the behavior.
[00:59:42] Shane: Yeah, I mean, I took estrogen for three [00:59:45] weeks and I, I felt that emotional experience from that [00:59:50] and yeah, it was, it was beautiful at [00:59:55] the time. But yeah, it's not, as you said, it's [01:00:00] synthetic.
[01:00:01] Shane: And again, for me, like [01:00:05] by far, the best way to get in touch with my emotional world has [01:00:10] been through meditation. Sit down, close your [01:00:15] eyes, not distracted by anything else. And we just start to [01:00:20] observe and we just start to feel what's going on in our interior. [01:00:25] And there's a lot. There's, There's all the, you know, the [01:00:30] pain of our life is there.
[01:00:33] Shane: It, it's, It's a [01:00:35] lot. And there's also all the joy and the laughter and the peace [01:00:40] and, you know, our, our, our parents are in there. Like our, our [01:00:45] intergenerational trauma you know, is, is passed down to us. And, And we can [01:00:50] start to feel that. And it's hard, like people don't wanna sit and [01:00:55] meditate. Like the hardest thing in our culture [01:01:00] that's fast paced, that's having us consume all the time.
[01:01:03] Shane: That's, That's constantly telling [01:01:05] us that we should be productive as much as possible. The hardest thing to do is to [01:01:10] sit still. To do that consistently. But the, the [01:01:15] benefits from it are insane. I mean, I was I, I was a research [01:01:20] assistant at the Brain and Creativity Institute at the University of Southern California when I was an [01:01:25] undergrad, and we were doing brain scans on expert meditators.
[01:01:29] Shane: [01:01:30] And yeah, I know mindfulness is becoming more popular and people know more about it, [01:01:35] but the amount of research there is on meditation, [01:01:40] helping with depression, with anxiety, with A DHD, with [01:01:45] addiction recovery. There's, there's, There's so much. And it's literally free. I [01:01:50] mean, you, You definitely wanna pay a teacher, you know, for their time, but it's, it's, [01:01:55] you just get to sit here and heal yourself.
[01:01:57] Shane: It's truly a miracle. And, And [01:02:00] you there's, there's nothing fabricated about it. There's nothing fabricated. It's just [01:02:05] you and what is what, what you're experiencing in the present moment.
[01:02:08] Stephanie: Shane, you said that you [01:02:10] felt that emotional experience for the three weeks you were on estrogen and then it was [01:02:15] beautiful.
[01:02:15] Stephanie: And I'm wondering if you can give us some inside scoop on what was that like as a male to have [01:02:20] estrogen coursing through your body and that sort of chemically induced emotional state. What was that like? [01:02:25]
[01:02:25] Shane: I, it was a while ago. It was more than four years ago. I was already more emotionally [01:02:30] open. I had started meditating already.
[01:02:32] Shane: I had started practicing breath work, so I would [01:02:35] say I was, I was higher on the emotionally intelligent scale [01:02:40] already. But yeah, I was like, just like crying tears of joy. I remember [01:02:45] just like crying tears of joy when I was skiing one day and I grew up skiing. It was like [01:02:50] a, yeah, a big activity in my life.
[01:02:52] Shane: And very rarely had I just [01:02:55] like cried tears of. For skiing, and that's beautiful, right? Like [01:03:00] skiing is like a fantastically beautiful thing that deserves tears of joy. [01:03:05] And having that, I was like, whoa. Like I, when that happened, [01:03:10] there was a part of me that's like, I'm actually more in touch with reality when I wasn't, [01:03:15] you know, I had this like, this, this like awe [01:03:20] sense of skiing and it's like, yeah, skiing the mountains, snowcap mountains deserves [01:03:25] that.
[01:03:25] Shane: But it was synthetically induced, you know? So [01:03:30] yeah, there was, there was a, I, you know, [01:03:35] already being emotionally intelligent, knowing the value of [01:03:40] that and then having what seemed to be greater access to [01:03:45] my emotional landscape felt like I [01:03:50] was, I was. Finding deeper alignment in myself that I was, I was more in touch with [01:03:55] reality when I wasn't.
[01:03:56] Stephanie: So it's a very seductive [01:04:00] feeling. Sometimes I refer to this as the imaginary inner girlfriend. [01:04:05] I'm curious now that you have done so much healing work and now [01:04:10] you say that you have a girlfriend and that she's wonderful and you adore [01:04:15] her. And now that you are much more in touch with your own healthy masculinity and you're, [01:04:20] you're channeling your sense of purpose, comparing those two states, right?
[01:04:24] Stephanie: [01:04:25] Comparing that moment that you remember skiing and having this sense of awe and wonder [01:04:30] and like, wow, I'm so alive. I'm really feeling the feelings except it's just like [01:04:35] a drug. Comparing that to what it's like now. [01:04:40] Much more confident in your masculinity and having a woman in your [01:04:45] life who is that, you know, that external [01:04:50] person you can be in relationship with and experience those things.
[01:04:53] Stephanie: Kind of like, [01:04:55] I don't wanna say vicariously through her, but through, through relationship rather than through [01:05:00] trying to be that yourself.
[01:05:02] Shane: Yeah, totally. I mean, this is, This is a great [01:05:05] topic where, you know the, the internal girlfriend, auto [01:05:10] phi erotic, target inversion yeah. These, the, [01:05:15] these are all fascinating things to research.
[01:05:17] Shane: Yeah. We, We have [01:05:20] Carl Yung. You know, we, We have the anima and the animus for men. We have [01:05:25] the, the internal feminine. And for women, they have the, the internal repre, repressed, [01:05:30] masculine. And we have both energies inside of us. But in an, in a, [01:05:35] in a healthy psyche man has this [01:05:40] anima inside to find relationship with that in the external world, right?
[01:05:44] Shane: [01:05:45] To, To go and find the girlfriend. And yeah, it's like I, I, [01:05:50] my partner's fantastic. She's very feminine. She's like totally in her like [01:05:55] energy. She's very beautiful. Yeah I, [01:06:00] I attracted her not through forcing, not through like [01:06:05] making the move as like. Conquest [01:06:10] masculinity would have us do. She came to me.
[01:06:12] Shane: It was very effortless. [01:06:15] And yeah, I think that's like another, like misnomer, you know, for a lot of, for a lot of [01:06:20] guys that like, you have to make the move. Like you have to like do the, you have to capture her, you know, or [01:06:25] whatever. But when we're really in touch with our healthy masculinity, the right, the right people come in, [01:06:30] I get to continue to be in touch with my feminine side.
[01:06:34] Shane: [01:06:35] I, we go to festivals together and I, I buy her clothes. [01:06:40] I used to wear rave, like women's rave outfits, two [01:06:45] raves myself when I was trans. So I can still be in touch [01:06:50] with that part of me that's like, oh, like this, like glamor, this like [01:06:55] beauty, this like way of adorning making something so beautiful. I can be in [01:07:00] touch with that still and give that to my girlfriend and my girlfriend's like, whoa, [01:07:05] this is like the greatest thing ever.
[01:07:06] Shane: Like, You have like a sense of women's fashion. I'm like, yeah [01:07:10] it's, it's dope. But it's not like with erotic target inversion [01:07:15] with auto gen phi that you're, we're misunderstanding that by putting [01:07:20] that onto ourself, you know, as men. And that's just, I will [01:07:25] argue not what's supposed to be happening, but more on the emotional side of things.[01:07:30]
[01:07:30] Shane: My emotions are in a far better place. I, I live, [01:07:35] I live a really fantastic life. I'm, I'm a leader. I've, I've built [01:07:40] community locally. I get to, you know, withholding breath work, [01:07:45] withholding meditation communities like, you know, like I'll lead [01:07:50] mass meditations where like people are crying, where like I'm crying while I'm leading the [01:07:55] meditation.
[01:07:55] Shane: Where we're finding this collective healing in the moment I've [01:08:00] taken responsibility you know, for the [01:08:05] parts of our world that I wish that could be better. You know, Like a big [01:08:10] part when I was like coming out of the addiction was like [01:08:15] having this understanding that if we were taught how to regulate our nervous systems [01:08:20] and to feel our emotions when we were in.
[01:08:24] Shane: [01:08:25] Elementary school, middle school, we'd be in a much different place. Like I probably wouldn't have [01:08:30] fallen as much into the addiction, you know, or if at all. Right? [01:08:35] So I've taken responsibility for this anger [01:08:40] that I have towards the world with the trauma that it, it dealt [01:08:45] me and have created something and created a [01:08:50] business created financial abundance.
[01:08:52] Shane: I have tons of friends. I get to [01:08:55] travel all over the world for my work. I was [01:09:00] teaching at a music festival in Costa Rica. I I went to [01:09:05] Mexico after that, and then I went to Hawaii. I was like traveling for four and a half weeks and I just got [01:09:10] back from that 'cause of the work that I'm doing. And, yeah, like [01:09:15] sissy hypno, taking hormones. It's, It's a escape. [01:09:20] It's a escape from our responsibility as men [01:09:25] of making the world a better place. It's, It's an escape. It's an [01:09:30] escape from utilizing our sexual energy to create a better [01:09:35] world. It's an escape from directing our anger, you [01:09:40] know, towards the places that should be put, channeling that energy and anger towards [01:09:45] making the world a better place, right?
[01:09:46] Shane: Like a lot of these parents who are talking about like, feel [01:09:50] guilty may, may feel guilty for starting to address the, the [01:09:55] chemical issue, right? And like, you shouldn't feel guilty, like [01:10:00] get the guilt off your back. Like, let's, Let's direct that [01:10:05] outwards and build a better world and start to hold the people responsible.[01:10:10]
[01:10:10] Shane: Who are poisoning us. Yeah, my emotional landscape is [01:10:15] far more intense, vast, beautiful ever [01:10:20] expanding because of my meditation practice, because I've [01:10:25] taken responsibility for my life and have created [01:10:30] community through that. And, And yeah, I've [01:10:35] harnessed my sexual energy to do that and to attract a beautiful partner into [01:10:40] my life.
[01:10:40] Shane: Like I love my life right now. And there's challenges, like being a [01:10:45] leader is scary. Like taking up space is scary. Like going on these [01:10:50] podcasts, talking about you know, talking about these sensitive [01:10:55] issues publicly, you know, if you look up healing from sissy [01:11:00] hypno on YouTube, like I'm the only person who comes up.
[01:11:03] Shane: Who has like, been through it and is sharing about [01:11:05] it publicly. It's scary. Like these things are scary. [01:11:10] It's, it's, It's hard. And we can either take an excuse from that and like, [01:11:15] watch porn and numb ourselves out with whatever drug or [01:11:20] consumer thing or HRT that we want to do, or we can [01:11:25] utilize this energy to face our fear and to create some beauty and to inspire people.
[01:11:29] Shane: [01:11:30] Like the amount of emails I get like, dude, like you, you've given me [01:11:35] hope. Like, Thank you for doing this. Like, I, I, I [01:11:40] went to a retreat with one of my clients in Mexico and he told me, he is like, you [01:11:45] saved my life, like talking about this publicly. You've saved my [01:11:50] life. And I've seen him progress out of this addiction.
[01:11:53] Shane: And it's like, I, [01:11:55] I saved a man's life. Like. The, The, [01:12:00] that joy, like that's real. Like that's hard earned. That [01:12:05] That took time. That took me overcoming my own addiction, that took me overcoming my own [01:12:10] fears. That took all the meditation training and the nervous system regulation and the daily [01:12:15] practices that I do, and then showing up for someone else to teach that to them.
[01:12:18] Shane: And he is like, [01:12:20] dude, you saved my life. Like I could, I like, if I get hit by a [01:12:25] car today, like I will know I made an impact in this world. [01:12:30] And that far surpasses any synthetic [01:12:35] emotional manipulation that I gained when I took estrogen, [01:12:40] infinitely surpasses.
[01:12:42] Stephanie: Well, That's an inspiring story and it's so [01:12:45] great to see you get so lit up.
[01:12:46] Stephanie: I know some people will just be listening. I'm happy to you about
[01:12:48] Shane: this.
[01:12:49] Stephanie: I [01:12:50] think if they're, if you're just listening, you can hear the passion and authenticity in his voice, and I, you [01:12:55] know, I'm sitting here seeing your face light up as you're talking about your purpose. [01:13:00] One thing that comes up a lot in my parent coaching work is the hard now, [01:13:05] easy later versus easy now, hard later paths.
[01:13:08] Stephanie: It's this way with [01:13:10] anything, right? Like you can reach for the candy and stay on the couch now, and that'll [01:13:15] be easy now, and it'll be hard later when you're feeling [01:13:20] heavier and more sedentary and more weak and everything just gets harder and harder. [01:13:25] Right? It's the same thing with anything you can reach for, something that numbs your emotions in the present [01:13:30] and.
[01:13:31] Stephanie: Not strengthen any other coping tools and end up [01:13:35] weaker and more dependent on your bad habits later. Or you can, as they [01:13:40] sometimes say, eat the frog, right? You can do the hard thing first. You can take the path of [01:13:45] more resistance. You can actively choose to take on [01:13:50] difficult and scary things to march into the unknown, to choose the more difficult path.[01:13:55]
[01:13:55] Stephanie: And then you get the reward down the line. The reward's not guaranteed. You have to work for [01:14:00] it, and you have to be willing to face the unknown and, and know that some things might not work out, [01:14:05] but it's that path of character development, of building [01:14:10] strength that leads to those outcomes. And so in parent coaching, we talk about [01:14:15] how.
[01:14:16] Stephanie: Like you were saying, right? The, The estrogen [01:14:20] and the drugs that go with it. That's, That's the easy now, hard later. It does give you [01:14:25] that escape. You can escape into the numbing fantasy. You can [01:14:30] temporarily feel better, temporarily feel alleviated of [01:14:35] drives like anger and sexuality. And you can take [01:14:40] shelter, take refuge, hiding out in the identity, protecting yourself [01:14:45] momentarily from the pressures of adult life and all that it demands of you in terms [01:14:50] of your independence and your skill and your stability.
[01:14:54] Stephanie: But ultimately your [01:14:55] life will get harder and harder and your world will get smaller and smaller. So I work with parents [01:15:00] sometimes to help them find are there any areas of life in which your child [01:15:05] has learned this for themselves? That. Sometimes doing the thing that's hard [01:15:10] today makes me thankful tomorrow that I made that choice.
[01:15:14] Stephanie: So I [01:15:15] love seeing this example of someone who's been on that path for a few years now and, you know, [01:15:20] you're, you're seeing that reward, you're seeing that you have this rich life. You have a community. You [01:15:25] have people who love you all over the world. You have opportunities to make a real difference in people's lives, and you [01:15:30] get that genuine reward that came from doing the hard things.
[01:15:34] Stephanie: [01:15:35] But you did have to, what I've heard sometimes described as [01:15:40] urge surf. You know, Riding out the wave a [01:15:45] tolerating the urge to do something addictive sitting through that [01:15:50] practice. I know meditation and breath work are really, really big parts of that for [01:15:55] you. And so, you know, every now and then I will [01:16:00] get an email or something from.
[01:16:02] Stephanie: A young man who [01:16:05] thanks me. I, I think not nearly to the level that you do, that you do because you specialize in this work. You [01:16:10] specialize in helping men with this issue. Every now and then I'll get a thank you for platforming [01:16:15] someone like you or, you know, things like that, right? And for, from the young [01:16:20] men who struggle with autogynephilia urges, struggle with porn addiction, but they know that [01:16:25] that's not the right path for them, and they are looking for that alternative content.
[01:16:29] Stephanie: [01:16:30] So my question is if, if you could say something directly to those young men [01:16:35] who are looking at these two paths before them, looking at the one that's easy now, hard later, [01:16:40] where they can choose the path of least resistance, the thing that feels [01:16:45] good in the moment, the things that gives them escape from the pressures.
[01:16:49] Stephanie: Or they [01:16:50] can. You know, Do what looks from here, like embarking on climbing a huge [01:16:55] mountain, right? That, that they have to exercise. Self-restraint, self-control, [01:17:00] surfing these urges, dealing with the unknown, dealing with fears, feeling like [01:17:05] overwhelmed by their emotions, feeling like, you know, by, by being goal directed, that [01:17:10] they're expressing toxic masculinity.
[01:17:11] Stephanie: Like all these things that they're afraid of, they would have to conquer [01:17:15] or deal with in some way to get to the other side. What nudge would you give them to help [01:17:20] them understand that it's worth it and how to begin on that path?
[01:17:24] Shane: Well, I'll just [01:17:25] start by saying the view is great. Like, I wouldn't say on I'm at the top, but [01:17:30] like, I'm much higher up than I was and it's, it's beautiful up here.
[01:17:34] Shane: [01:17:35] I mean, Yeah nothing, nothing beautiful in this [01:17:40] world comes easily, come, comes quickly. This. [01:17:45] This pornography is intense. It's dark, it's [01:17:50] intentionally intelligently manipulative. So I'm not, I'm not gonna [01:17:55] sugarcoat it and be like, you can do it. You know, like, it's, It's hard, but you can do [01:18:00] it. And the tools that I learned in [01:18:05] my journey when I, when I decided, okay, I am going to overcome this.
[01:18:09] Shane: [01:18:10] I am going to do this. The, The tools I [01:18:15] learned, the people I met, the places that I went internally and [01:18:20] externally to achieve this goal [01:18:25] has completely changed my life. Like [01:18:30] the people, the people, like so many of the people who have done [01:18:35] incredible things in this world have. Overcome dark trauma, [01:18:40] have overcome intense addictions.
[01:18:42] Shane: Like the people who come out of heroin [01:18:45] addiction, who come outta meth addiction. They are standup people when they [01:18:50] make it out. They are, They are wise, wise people. They, [01:18:55] They benefit their communities so much because of the spiritual, emotional, [01:19:00] and physical wisdom that they've learned in overcoming that.
[01:19:03] Shane: And you can be that [01:19:05] person. You can be that person. You have a purpose Here, we've been made [01:19:10] to feel, especially a lot of men, all of us, like with our culture that [01:19:15] with nihilism and where we're at, that we [01:19:20] don't have a purpose that it's meaningless here, but you can help people, you [01:19:25] can help relieve suffering for yourself and others like.
[01:19:29] Shane: [01:19:30] That's, That's like the baseline thing. I help like, people who are nihilists like, [01:19:35] okay, like even if there is no meaning, like you still suffer, [01:19:40] other people still suffer, you still do things, even if they're [01:19:45] shortsighted, to try to relieve your suffering. So there is still meaning, [01:19:50] 'cause you're, you're looking to alleviate suffering.
[01:19:53] Shane: Even if you think you're [01:19:55] nihilist, let's just alleviate some suffering. Let's do it in a better way. Like, Start with yourself, [01:20:00] learn some tools to start to alleviate some internal suffering. It, It's [01:20:05] gonna benefit your life in, in infinite amount of ways. And then you can get to a place where, [01:20:10] whoa I, I can share this with other people and I can help other people [01:20:15] alleviate suffering that they're going through.
[01:20:16] Shane: Wow, this makes me feel really good. I'm being of [01:20:20] service to other people. I'm, I'm I'm thinking about the world. I'm thinking [01:20:25] about others more than my own addictive [01:20:30] drives. That that's a, That's a pretty good place to be in. That's, That's a place I want to be [01:20:35] in. And a place that I'm, I've been building towards, and I, I continue to [01:20:40] strive in my efforts.
[01:20:42] Shane: You're here for a reason. [01:20:45] Whatever you do to overcome this, you're gonna become the most strong, [01:20:50] powerful, loving man there is. That's what's happened to me. Like, [01:20:55] it, It's been so fantastic. So that's the [01:21:00] nudge. That's the nudge I would give men who are struggling with this. I'm here [01:21:05] as a support, as you guys know, as Stephanie has talked about.
[01:21:09] Shane: I help [01:21:10] men overcome this. Through breath work, through [01:21:15] meditation, through nervous system regulation. My [01:21:20] approach is deeply backed in positive psychology and [01:21:25] neuroscience. With my background at the University of Southern California, I am also deeply [01:21:30] embedded in the spiritual traditions of Buddhism and other traditions [01:21:35] of the east.
[01:21:36] Shane: These have been very beneficial. I use them as philosophies that [01:21:40] have been beneficial for me and beneficial for a lot of my clients that you can take or leave. Yeah, I've been [01:21:45] working with men in a one-on-one context for about two years [01:21:50] now. And I'm starting to move towards a group [01:21:55] container.
[01:21:55] Shane: Yeah, it's been really interesting putting myself out there. 'cause [01:22:00] Yeah I, I would set up like con I would have like a way for men to book connection calls with me. And [01:22:05] yeah, a lot of guys would no show. And for the people who did show up, [01:22:10] they were terrified. I was the first person they had [01:22:15] told that they'd been addicted to this.
[01:22:18] Shane: And they were like, I [01:22:20] had guys like shaking on the call. I'm like, bro, like it's just me and you, like you're [01:22:25] safe. Like, You can share this with me. But there's so much shame, so much shame, [01:22:30] and a lot of guys with no show. And yeah, for me like, [01:22:35] you know, I'm, I'm still young, like I'm 25. You know, It's a pretty, [01:22:40] it's been a, it's a, yeah, it's been a challenge.
[01:22:42] Shane: Like, It's been a beautiful challenge, like working with [01:22:45] men in this way and the men that. Have decided to work one-on-one with me. It's been [01:22:50] fantastic witnessing the transformation and helping them grow their emotional [01:22:55] worlds and just having a space to chat with each other. But yeah [01:23:00] I, I couldn't respond to like all the emails that I got.
[01:23:03] Shane: I, I didn't know like [01:23:05] if people were gonna actually sign up for the calls or not. And then another thing I was finding, [01:23:10] Stephanie was like, I was telling guys like, you know, [01:23:15] you, you have to have some sort of daily nervous system regulation [01:23:20] practice, whether it's meditation, whether it's Qigong, breathwork, or [01:23:25] working out.
[01:23:25] Shane: Like There's gotta be some sort of daily thing. And [01:23:30] a lot of guys were like, expecting me to save them [01:23:35] almost. And I would tell them like, you gotta put the work in on your own. [01:23:40] We're gonna do like, I'm gonna teach you these breathwork practices. I'm gonna teach you these meditation [01:23:45] tools, but it's up to you to implement them.
[01:23:48] Shane: So it, it does [01:23:50] take, it does take a, a buy-in, you know, especially if you're, if you're deep in this [01:23:55] addiction to yourself and to like, loving yourself and, and trusting [01:24:00] yourself. So this is all to say, what I'm moving towards is I just built out my first [01:24:05] group online container. It's with my brand EDM Breathwork.
[01:24:09] Shane: This [01:24:10] is what I travel the world teaching at music festivals. They're very accessible. [01:24:15] Breath work and meditation techniques, nervous system regulation tools [01:24:20] that go to electronic dance music to our favorite songs. My friend [01:24:25] Christina Joy and I run it together. So we switch off teaching.
[01:24:29] Shane: We have [01:24:30] twice a week live meditation and breath work calls over Zoom. [01:24:35] And then we also have a bunch of course content on breath work on nervous [01:24:40] system regulation. I'm gonna start putting courses on there on the sexual energy [01:24:45] ization. So I'm wanting now I'm, I'm doing this podcast with [01:24:50] you today. I'm doing another podcast on Wednesday with talking about Sissy hypno and my journey [01:24:55] with this.
[01:24:55] Shane: If you're here, if you're wanting to work with me, if you're listening, if you've made it this far in the podcast, [01:25:00] join the EDM Breathwork Council. The council is the name of the online group. [01:25:05] It's a much lower ticket entry point like a lot more affordable [01:25:10] than my one-on-one coaching. And it's gonna give you the foundation of [01:25:15] nervous system regulation.
[01:25:16] Shane: And then you'll also get to know me more, more, [01:25:20] get to know my work more, and then we can move to we can move to [01:25:25] one-on-one coaching from there. But yeah, I've found I, I don't, I don't [01:25:30] have time for. I don't have any more space for all the no-shows on the [01:25:35] connection calls. And like, I know, I know like some of you guys are scared.
[01:25:39] Shane: And I also [01:25:40] have like missed emails like, I'm gonna own that in this podcast. Like, I've missed emails too. [01:25:45] The, The process of setting up one-on-one work was too time intensive for [01:25:50] me, and I think. A bit too intimate to start for a lot of guys. So if you're [01:25:55] curious about my work, we'll have it linked.
[01:25:57] Shane: Below you can join the council to [01:26:00] start to do some breath work with me to start to meditate with me in a group. [01:26:05] Obviously, we're not gonna be sharing about our deepest trauma, so you can stay anonymous with what you're struggling [01:26:10] with. And then once you get to know me more, you can reach out.
[01:26:13] Stephanie: That sounds great, Shane. [01:26:15] We will make sure to include the link to your EDM Breathwork [01:26:20] Council. I'm really glad that young men who need someone like [01:26:25] you have you, you know, taking these risks, putting yourself out there, being vulnerable, sharing your [01:26:30] story, and being a leader. So anything else you wanna share here at [01:26:35] the end about where people can find you?
[01:26:37] Shane: Yeah, my personal Instagram [01:26:40] is breathing with Shane. You can follow, [01:26:45] yeah, EDM breath work as well if you're in Colorado. [01:26:50] If you're in the front range area, I do a weekly [01:26:55] group at Red Rocks Amphitheater called Breath Rocks sunrise Yoga, [01:27:00] breathwork Meditation at Red Rocks Amphitheater. It's beautiful.
[01:27:04] Shane: It's a [01:27:05] fantastic community. So if you're in Colorado please join, please come by. [01:27:10] And then the last thing I wanna say is, i'm gonna be hosting a retreat [01:27:15] for men who are struggling with sissy hypno, who are struggling with all these things [01:27:20] that we were talking about on this podcast. I'm going to do it next [01:27:25] year, this time.
[01:27:26] Shane: I just got the initial idea for it. I was [01:27:30] assisting a retreat in Hawaii last week, and I was like, you know [01:27:35] what? I got these podcasts coming up. I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna talk about [01:27:40] this and I'm gonna commit again. I'm goal oriented, striving towards my purpose, [01:27:45] giving myself short, shorter term goals to focus on, to [01:27:50] build towards this.
[01:27:50] Shane: This is a longer one, this'll be a bigger one. But next year, this time around the [01:27:55] Equinox I want it to be in Hawaii. I was at a beautiful retreat center [01:28:00] there who wants to host us. On the big island in a cloud [01:28:05] forest, in a forest that was regenerated 40 years ago. It was, It was cattle [01:28:10] land and this hyper intelligent ecologist regenerated this entire [01:28:15] forest.
[01:28:15] Shane: And I think it's a really beautiful metaphor for, yeah, the fact that like [01:28:20] we can be in dark places like our life, we can be completely destroyed by [01:28:25] addiction and we can regenerate into something really beautiful. So I'm wanting to do a breath work [01:28:30] meditation, nervous system regulation retreat for men who are [01:28:35] struggling with this in Hawaii on this beautiful land.
[01:28:38] Shane: I want you to be there. We'll [01:28:40] be in person. I've, I'm maybe not I, I'm pointing to the people who are watching [01:28:45] this. I want, I want to be like Yeah, but we, I mean, you're, you're one [01:28:50] of your retreats too.
[01:28:50] Stephanie: Not, I mean, I'd love to do a retreat with you. I know exactly where you're talking about on the big island as well.
[01:28:54] Shane: Oh, [01:28:55] you do? Oh
[01:28:55] Stephanie: yeah, Yeah. I've to the cloud Forest Sanctuary, and I've stayed a retreat [01:29:00] center close by.
[01:29:01] Shane: Oh yeah. My, my girlfriend. Yeah.
[01:29:02] Stephanie: It's my favorite place in the world.
[01:29:03] Shane: My girlfriend [01:29:05] hosted a retreat, a wellness retreat for photographers. She's a professional photographer.
[01:29:09] Stephanie: Very
[01:29:09] Shane: cool. So [01:29:10] she got a bunch of professional photographers together and I did breath work and meditation there.
[01:29:14] Shane: And [01:29:15] she had all these styled shoots with models at like the YPO Valley and in the [01:29:20] sanctuary. And I was like, oh, yeah, like I gotta bring men here. And [01:29:25] like, yeah, a parent's retreat with you. Like, I think [01:29:30] that could be something really cool. I know we like briefly touched on that, but like, why not at the [01:29:35] Cloud Forest?
[01:29:35] Shane: Like it's stunning.
[01:29:37] Stephanie: Yeah, we're planting seeds [01:29:40] so, so people can get in touch with you through your Instagram and [01:29:45] if they're interested in this retreat is, you know, I think building a retreat for the first [01:29:50] time it's, it's stone soup. You know, You build it, they come right? You like, everyone adds a little something.
[01:29:54] Stephanie: [01:29:55] So this is part of getting that momentum going. People, please reach out to Shane if you or a [01:30:00] loved one want to attend one of his retreats. Okay. Awesome. Thank you so much for [01:30:05] joining me. It's been a pleasure. Thank you for listening [01:30:10] to you Must Be some kind of Therapist. If you enjoyed this episode.[01:30:15]
[01:30:15] Stephanie: Kindly take a moment to rate, review, share, or comment on it using your [01:30:20] platform of choice. And of course, please remember, podcasts are not [01:30:25] therapy and I'm not your therapist. Special thanks to Joey Rero for [01:30:30] this awesome theme song, half Awake and to Pods by Nick for production. [01:30:35] For help navigating the impact of the gender craze on your family, be sure [01:30:40] to check out my program for parents, ROGD, repair.[01:30:45]
[01:30:45] Stephanie: Any resource you heard mentioned on this show plus how to get in touch with me [01:30:50] can all be found in the notes and links below Rain or shine. [01:30:55] I hope you'll step outside to breathe the air today in the words of [01:31:00] Max Airman. With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it [01:31:05] is still a beautiful [01:31:10] [01:31:15] [01:31:20] [01:31:25] [01:31:30] [01:31:35] [01:31:40] world.