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The Middle of Culture is what happens when two siblings with too many opinions and not enough chill dive headfirst into movies, music, video games, and whatever else is rotting our brains this week. It’s part pop culture podcast, part sibling rivalry, and fully unfiltered. Expect passionate arguments, niche references, unsolicited rankings, and the occasional moment of unexpected insight. If you’ve ever wanted to eavesdrop on the kind of argument you’d hear at the family dinner table—only with better audio—this is your show.
Eden
00:10-00:13
Welcome back to the Middle of Culture. I'm one of your hosts, Eden.
Peter
00:13-00:16
And I am your other host, Peter.
Eden
00:16-00:23
Hey Peter. Welcome back. I know you had a lot of travel. Um I know it was a a lot of work, but you're back. How you doing?
Peter
00:24-00:33
I am back. I am glad to be back. It was great to sleep in my own bed last night. Not that, you know, yeah, it just always is.
Eden
00:29-00:31
Ain't that the truth?
Peter
00:33-00:40
The the bed at the Hampton Inn in Boise was nothing special. It was a bed in a Hampton Inn.
Eden
00:40-00:40
Sure.
Peter
00:40-01:01
which is you can generally expect that it's gonna be clean and it's gonna be fine, but it's not gonna impress you. I will say the bed at the Meritage Resort and Spa in Napa Valley was Uh that was nicer. It was surprisingly nice for a a hotel bed, but it still just, you know, it still wasn't home.
Eden
01:02-01:11
The thing is is it's never as good. I don't care how nice the bed is, and frankly, I've have yet to stay in a uh uh a hotel bed that is better than mine.
Peter
01:11-01:12
Mm-hmm
Eden
01:11-01:17
Uh, even when they aren't good, they're not better than mine. And uh it's always just better to be home anyway.
Peter
01:15-01:27
No, no. It is. So we're glad to be home. I'm not so sure. I'm excited to go back to work tomorrow, but hey, that's okay.
Eden
01:25-01:37
You know what? That's fair. Work sucks, I know, as the uh as Blink 182 so sagely intoned y low 20 plus years ago.
Peter
01:37-01:39
Tis true, tis true
Eden
01:39-01:41
That is a Blink 182 song, isn't it?
Peter
01:41-01:44
Yep, it is a bleak 182 song.
Eden
01:44-01:44
Okay.
Peter
01:44-01:45
You nailed it.
Eden
01:44-01:51
For a second I was like, oh no, was it actually Green Day? And I was like, it's not it's a little too whiny and not quite mean enough. It's not Green Day.
Peter
01:51-01:55
Yep, no, it's definitely Blink 182. But how have you been?
Eden
01:56-02:52
I'm here. Uh it's been a it's been a long week, uh, also. Uh I'm not I shouldn't complain about this uh on a podcast, but I'm gonna complain about it on a podcast. So I've I've been talking about all of these uh accessibility trainings I've been doing. Can I just say engineers can go to hell. They're such assholes About being told that they need to make slight changes and improvements to their digital accessibility. They're the biggest dicks I've ever met in my life. And I have gone to three different engineering departments and each one has been worse than the last. I went to one on Friday. It was the most hostile visit with a department that I have ever had. Uh and I finally kind of lost my cool a little bit with one of the people in this one. It wasn't that bad.
Peter
02:51-02:52
I mean that's
Eden
02:52-03:08
And like, I don't think I crossed a line. but I'm used to doing these and then whoever's in charge of those departments sending my boss a really nice email about how they were so grateful that I stopped by and that it was a really useful thing. I don't think I'm gonna get one this time 'cause I was kinda I was
Peter
03:06-03:06
Sure.
Eden
03:09-03:20
I was really pointed with this one this one professor. And first off, I mean I was primed to not like this dude because he was easily in his mid-70s. And I'm like. Retire. Retire.
Peter
03:20-03:22
Sure, sure
Eden
03:21-03:57
So that another scholar can take your place. There are so many people with PhDs who can't get jobs using those PhDs. And half of the problem is cause dried up old fucks like this guy don't retire when they're supposed to. They sit around picking their nose and taking up nice positions. And y honestly, when you've been there that long at a university, they you could retire and they could probably hire two people for the amount of sal salary they're paying you. Anyway, so I was primed to not like this guy, and then he was just such a dick about it. That I did kind of lose my cool a little bit. And uh I don't feel bad about it.
Peter
03:56-03:59
I mean, I think that's okay.
Eden
03:57-04:18
I don't. But here I am. It was it It was like I've been in so many of these. And yes, the engineering ones were the worst, but there were other departments that were also kind of jerks about it. And I just like hit the wall. And you know, it's like. Everything going on in the world. We're sitting there in this meeting.
Peter
04:17-04:17
Right.
Eden
04:18-04:46
We're sitting there in this meeting, and the computer that I'm trying to do a presentation from keeps getting uh s taken over by the school system because there is a shooting in our town. So they're like, alert, there's been a shooting four blocks from your location. Alert. The uh shooter seems to be moving in your direction. And so, like, that's got everyone on edge. And then this guy is such an asshole. And I was just like, I'm not even gonna put up with this anymore. But I'm here. I'm here.
Peter
04:47-04:50
We're glad you're here. We're glad you're here.
Eden
04:50-04:54
Anyway, what you been up to? Lots of travel.
Peter
04:53-04:54
Uh
Eden
04:54-04:57
Did you do anything? Did you check out anything fun while you were traveling?
Peter
04:57-05:03
Uh did go to a really incredible restaurant uh when we were in Napa Valley.
Eden
05:03-05:04
Tell me more.
Peter
05:03-05:24
It was was very good food. It was called Bistro Ginti. uh it was kind of a French bistro in food style but didn't feel too uppity. It was uh it was nice. It was a it was a nice little place. We had some really good uh what else? Let's see, what did we have? The French onion soup was incredible.
Eden
05:24-05:27
Ooh, I always love a good French onion soup.
Peter
05:25-05:36
The Oh yeah, it was it was amazing. The they had some truffle deviled eggs that were excellent.
Eden
05:37-05:37
Okay.
Peter
05:38-05:55
And then I had a a beef bourgayon. that was just so flipping oh my gosh, it was incredible. Just came out in this nice little crock, big old pieces of short rib and some bacon and peas and carrots and
Eden
05:48-05:49
Nice.
Peter
05:56-06:04
in just this incredible broth. And uh then we had a a bread pudding made with chocolate croissants.
Eden
06:04-06:05
Oh my
Peter
06:05-06:13
Oh, it was oh oh my I mean like I'm I I like bread pudding. I've always liked bread pudding.
Eden
06:12-06:14
Yeah, yeah
Peter
06:13-06:46
And so I was like, I've gotta try the bread pudding, and it came out. and you take one scoop, and especially the top layer, you get a little bit of the the the crispiness and the flakiness of a croissant, but you get the buttery and then you get some chocolate and it had some French vanilla ice cream on the top. Oh I was wow. It was amazing. I was so full and I so wanted to just stuff myself on this bread pudding and I couldn't do it and I was so sad that I didn't have room for it because it was Incredible.
Eden
06:46-06:50
Wow, that sounds delicious.
Peter
06:49-07:01
Yeah, it was it was amazing. But uh other than that, you know I did some reading. So I think I spoke a couple weeks ago how I had started Murder Your Employer by Rupert Holmes.
Eden
06:56-07:02
Cool. Mm-hmm.
Peter
07:01-07:31
I finished that. A lot of fun. Really, really enjoyed that book. Basically, I won't dive into too much, but it follows three characters, one main character and kind of two side characters, who all end up at the McMaster's School of Homicide. And they all come with a goal to murder their employer. And so the main character, he's, you know, he he the it the the guy who it's at a aeronautics engineering firm.
Eden
07:22-07:23
Sure.
Peter
07:31-08:30
Uh the guy's cutting corners, he's poo-pooing some of the actual designs, and the main character knows that this is going to lead to things being unsafe. It ends up to one of his friends, ends up dead, this girl he was interested in gets in a compromising situation with this asshole boss because that's just the kind of horrible person he is. And she commits suicide, so that's why he decides this guy needs to die. There's another one where the the other story, it's a nurse. Who you come to find out like her supervisor at the hospital has blackmail stuff on her and is so is abusing her, making her do all her work and all this kind of stuff. And the blackmail info that she has, spoilers, is that this nurse, her father was terminally ill and was suffering, was in a ton of pain, and she gave him a little something that helped accelerate his passing. And that's what the other nurse is holding over her head that basically you you're a murderer.
Eden
08:25-08:25
Okay
Peter
08:30-09:10
You killed your father. And the third one is an actress from Hollywood who. She was kind of in her prime, but basically refused to sleep with the studio executive. And so he is like blacklisted her and She's not getting any work and all this kind of stuff while he's continuing to uh seduce and basically take advantage of young young Starlet. So she's like, he's gotta go. And so they all go to the McMaster School and it's a little bit of their time there and then it splits as they all basically are they they graduate well they don't graduate, but they are sent out from the school to complete their thesis.
Eden
08:57-08:58
Sure
Peter
09:10-09:41
at which point it will then be determined if they're successful and they've matriculated or not. If in them at master school, if you are unsuccessful, then you too need to be deleted lest you uh let any knowledge of the school spill. So then the rest of the second half of the book is kind of each one of them carrying out their plans whether they're successful or not. Really, really fun book. I enjoyed it a ton. A very satisfying conclusion. Highly recommend it. And and here's the funnest little thing.
Eden
09:40-09:40
Nice.
Peter
09:41-09:43
Do you know who Rupert Holmes is, Aiden?
Eden
09:45-09:47
Uh, the name is familiar to me
Peter
09:47-09:52
So Rupert Holmes has a couple Tonies to his name.
Eden
09:52-09:52
Okay.
Peter
09:52-10:02
He has a number of albums to his name, and there's a little song that he wrote and recorded. Called The Pinha Calada Song.
Eden
10:03-10:04
Okay.
Peter
10:05-10:08
That's this Rupert Holmes
Eden
10:08-10:10
And then he wrote this book
Peter
10:09-10:11
And then he wrote this book.
Eden
10:11-10:16
I mean, everyone's got a couple bangers in them, I guess.
Peter
10:12-10:18
Yeah. Right? Anyway, fun book.
Eden
10:17-10:18
Wow.
Peter
10:19-10:41
Highly recommend it. I I don't know if there are any more. I think I'd Seen some little rumors on the internet that maybe there were going to be more uh in kind of a series. But this was great because it ended in your There were no dangling, you know, uh no dangling storylines, no no nothing that made you feel unsatisfied at the end. So fun, fun book.
Eden
10:39-10:47
That's always nice. You you feel done if you want to be done. It sounds like there's maybe others if you feel so inclined, but you can be done.
Peter
10:47-10:53
I mean, because of the setup of it, it would be very simple for him to write more books in this series, just
Eden
10:52-10:53
Sure
Peter
10:53-11:16
you get more students and you create more situations for them. Uh but but I didn't feel like it was an unfinished story. So all three of the characters had very satisfying arcs and and fun book. Highly recommend it. And then I finished, uh I read um Artificial Condition, the second murderboch murderbot novella.
Eden
11:16-11:16
Okay.
Peter
11:16-11:42
uh decided, you know, I I thought those are fairly most of 'em are fairly short and easy, so I thought I would start reading those. Uh so I I read the second one, Artificial Condition, fun book. I'm about halfway through the third one right now a and I'm enjoying that. I didn't read any more of Work Won't Love You Back because I'll be honest, um it's too much and too real right now. It felt too
Eden
11:42-11:42
Yeah
Peter
11:43-11:58
You know, it was kind of a thing where I understand what she's going for and I can see where she's gonna go with this, and I and I recognize that and say. That's not a place I'm ready to go right now at this point of my life.
Eden
11:58-11:59
You know what, that's fair.
Peter
11:58-12:11
But, you know, it is it is now November, so it's time for me to pick up another book about writing. So I have started now uh the book Write Your Novel from the Middle.
Eden
12:07-12:07
Okay.
Peter
12:11-14:04
Uh and it's it's a fairly short book. I think it may be less than a hundred pages, and I just barely started it. Uh but his whole idea, the the author's whole idea is that You go to the midpoint of the book. And if you look at either the if you're doing a three-act structure, if you're doing the 15 Save the Cat story beats, if you're going with like the I think the eight different key points in KM Wayland's story structure, any of these, they all have a midpoint where, you know, something needs to change. There needs to be a big turn here. And and his argument is that start from there and then kind of build your way out. And whether you're a a plotter, whether you're a pantser, whether you're somewhere in between. Really nailing down that midpoint and understanding because the midpoint, the midpoint is where the theme of your story is really going to become more solidified. And so starting at that midpoint allows you to dial in that theme. And once you've got your theme, then it's according to him. Uh it's it's a little easier to build your story from there and go either direction forward or backwards. So I've started reading that. So it was a good uh it was a good week or two of reading. Uh and and I'll say this. It was very nice to not be reading Brandon Sanderson. We talked briefly about Wind and Truth. If you really want to hear Aubrey and I go into it. Uh folks go listen to the most recent episode of Generations where Aubrey and I decided we finally finished, you know, I have finally finished this now. We'll go a deep dive. And at the end of it, I think we both came away from it going, we like a lot of the characters. We like the world building. but it is become apparent that his prose is getting worse. And to something that you and I brought up, I actually found out that his original editor that had been his editor for many years actually died. in 2020.
Eden
14:04-14:05
Oh
Peter
14:05-14:33
And so he's just kind of he hasn't had an editor who really knows him since 2020. And It's obvious in reading these books that he doesn't have a strong editor who can come to him and say, Yo, this isn't good enough, or, hey, this sounds really amateurish here, or You just wrote too damn many words, dude. So interesting to see, but nice to move on.
Eden
14:32-14:33
Yeah
Peter
14:33-14:34
Um
Eden
14:33-14:41
I'm sure that's true. I'm sure it's nice to just say, okay, maybe I'll come back. I know you did a bunch of rereading beforehand too, right?
Peter
14:41-14:50
I did. And that was really, I think, where it became obvious to me that no, it's not just me, that the quality of his prose has diminished because
Eden
14:50-14:50
Yeah
Peter
14:51-15:16
I reread all of uh the Mistborn books. And so you go back to The Final Empire, and that one is from, I think, probably before 2010 when that came out. I can tell you right now, really fast, and through the magic of editing. Oh yeah, gosh, 2006. And so it starts in 2006, and then the Lost Metal came out, I think maybe 2024, maybe it was 2023.
Eden
15:10-15:11
Oh, jeez
Peter
15:17-16:00
But that was the most recent. And honestly, the the pacing, the structure, and and and just the the level of the prose is dramatically not as good in Bands of Mourning and The Lost Metal as compos as compared to the original Mistborn trilogy and then I think really the Alloy of Law, Shadows of Self, is where you start to see it. But really those last two Missborn books, in rereading them, I could see Oh, this this doesn't feel as as good to read. The story is still interesting, but it kind of feels like you're just somebody's telling you a story and they don't know how to tell a story.
Eden
16:00-17:23
That's really interesting. I would be curious, you know, I don't read a whole lot of uh, you know, Doorstopper Fantasy. I don't know, it's not a I mean, I a whole lot is being generous to myself. I don't read this kind of stuff. So I would be curious if this is a Sanderson problem. I think it is it is obviously a problem with Sanderson, but I would be curious to see if it is m localized around him or if this is kind of a current in the industry as a whole. Like I don't know because I'm not reading them. But I wonder if other similar books that are published by the same publisher also suffer from weaker plotting than ones that were coming out 20 years ago. I I just wonder if the field But anyway, I would just I would be curious to talk with someone who does read more completely and and more widely in that genre to see if they've also need noticed is this an industry trend? Is this a is this a genre trend? Or is this a a localized problem with the success and and therefore less editing and the death of the editor, particularly in Sanderson's case?
Peter
17:23-17:38
Yeah, that's really interesting. And I don't know, I I don't read enough of this. And and when I look at the people who I would kind of lump Sanderson in with, here's the problem. I would say very much like
Eden
17:36-17:38
They ain't putting out books anymore.
Peter
17:38-17:44
Well, very much like Robert Jordan, but oh that's right, he died, and Brandon Sanderson wrote the last three books in the Wheel of Time.
Eden
17:43-17:44
Yeah.
Peter
17:44-17:45
And George R.
Eden
17:44-17:45
Yeah.
Peter
17:45-17:59
Martin and A Song of Ice and Fire, oh, he hasn't published a book in that series since 2011. And oh, the name of the wind, Patrick Rothis, he hasn't written the third book in the King Tr King Killer Chronicles, probably in again over a decade.
Eden
17:59-18:01
And he never will.
Peter
18:02-18:17
Correct. I think you're right. So I don't know. It's really interesting. But uh yeah, it it was it was noticeable in going back and reading. But here now, okay. Just spitballing here. This is just coming off the top of my head.
Eden
18:16-18:18
Hit me. Hit me
Peter
18:20-18:30
I read recently also his Secret Projects books. The ones he wrote during the pandemic just on his own for fun.
Eden
18:26-18:27
Uh-huh.
Peter
18:31-18:51
And with the exception of a medieval wizard's guide to or the fugal wizard's guide to medieval England, whatever that book called. That book is just a throwaway book. That was a fun experiment for him. It's completely unconsequential. It was fun to read. It was absolutely forgettable. I actually wouldn't recommend anyone read it unless you just are bored out of your mind.
Eden
18:49-18:51
Mm-hmm. Okay
Peter
18:51-19:15
But Tress and Yumi in particular, I loved both of those books. And those are books that he had zero pressure, zero expectation. Was literally like I think Yumi, he specifically said he wanted to try and write a quasi-romance book for his wife.
Eden
19:15-19:16
Mm-hmm
Peter
19:16-19:26
And and and it's interesting because again, neither of those, especially Tresa and Yumi and the Nightmare Painter, neither of those are going to win any awards in terms of their pros.
Eden
19:25-19:26
Sure.
Peter
19:27-19:43
But I absolutely did not read those books and think to myself, oh, this feels awkward. This feels clunky. This feels So I wonder if I mean I think you may be onto something that there's zero publisher pressure with those books because his publisher had no idea.
Eden
19:41-19:41
Yeah.
Peter
19:43-19:45
I mean, he self-published those books.
Eden
19:45-19:46
Mm-hmm.
Peter
19:45-19:50
He just wrote those because he wanted to. So I don't know. There's there might be something there.
Eden
19:49-20:17
Well and I i and I know that like a publishing as a whole is just in a really weird space right now for a lot of reasons because like The entire market of the mass market paperback has basically disappeared with very few exceptions. There are still There are still genres uh for which it is very popular still. Largely it's romance. Like that is where you can still go buy a $6 pocket-sized paperbook is romance.
Peter
20:17-20:19
Yeah, yeah
Eden
20:17-21:08
And that is it. Because other than that, it is big fat hardcovers, uh, trades that are bigger, more expensive, still 25 bucks for a fucking paperback. And the whole move to the boutique special edition versions, especially of sci-fi and fiction, where, you know, you sign up for book crate or whatever the fuck it's called. They got a I got 17 of these at this point, depending on whatever particular, you know, niche interest you have. And then you were getting these really fancy, bespoke versions of these books mailed straight to your door every month. So you gotta A, have books to put in that stupid thing every month. And B, people aren't buying the book. People are buying the experience of getting this fancy, beautiful version of a book.
Peter
21:08-21:10
Yeah, that's true.
Eden
21:08-21:47
They're not doing it for Brandon Sanderson's new book. They're doing it for whatever fun thing they put in my fantasy book crate this month. Maybe it's Brando Sando, maybe it's author X, maybe it's Author Y. I'm just getting a really cool looking book that looks great and and visually appealing on my shelf. So I feel like that is one of the currents here is this move towards a more aesthetic-based consumerism regarding books. Um, and I think that a part of it is that whole industry of the of the mass market paperback, the pocketbook has completely disintegrated. It's gone. Which is a bummer because those are the best kinds of books to buy, man.
Peter
21:44-21:44
Yeah.
Eden
21:48-21:56
I just you can't even and like even if you self-pub, like if you go the the self-pub route and you're doing like print on demand through Amazon or whatever.
Peter
21:48-21:48
Yeah.
Eden
21:57-22:30
The smallest you can get that is still like trade paperback size. They do not make mass market size. Whereas I'm like, oh man, if I was gonna self-pub a book, I would want it to be a pocketbook because pocketbooks are cool. Uh and it's just it's just interesting to think about in terms of the the currents of the industry. And I also think, and a part of this I think also comes down to, I mean, we're going long on this, but I think it's interesting. I it comes down to the I'm trying to figure out how to word this in a way that doesn't sound infantilizing, but I'm just gonna say it. The like
Peter
22:30-22:30
Just said.
Eden
22:31-23:28
The the dumbing down and making more adolescent of fiction overall, writ large, because there is a whole stanch of people who love YA And now they are in their twenties and thirties and still just primarily want to read YA. Because that is their comf it's their comfort. You know, uh level it is the you know, there there are certain tropes that often appear in young adult fiction that they that they they are drawn to and whether that is because of comfort, whether that is because of of ease, whether that is because of you don't really have to fucking pay attention to these things. Like they they go down real smooth. Um, you know, and it it not unlike light novels, which I've been reading a lot of, but like these are not it's not high lit, guys. It's not fucking high lit. Um And so I think that all of these things tie into also that that that weakening of Sanderson's pros, maybe.
Peter
23:28-23:31
Yeah, I think that's a very, very realistic thing.
Eden
23:29-23:52
And and of all pros. Because you know, I was just talking with someone and it was explaining to them what new adult as a as like a a purchase marker is. Because they said, what the hell is new adult? And I was like, well, it's for people who want young adult but with a little more TNA, a little more violence.
Peter
23:51-23:53
I was gonna say a little little more spicy.
Eden
23:53-24:16
Yeah, you just you want a bit more fucking than you're getting in the YA book, but you want the you you want the lexical level, you want the types of plots, you want the types of conflict, you want the types of you know, dissonance and discord between your characters that you would get in YA, not the sort of thing that you would get in lit fiction.
Peter
24:16-24:17
Yeah, yeah.
Eden
24:17-24:31
You know, that sort of thing. Which again, I'm not out here saying everyone needs to go fucking read Litvit. Obviously, I don't read Litvik very often, because most of it I find very boring and is mostly about old white men cheating on their wives, and I don't give a fuck. Sorry, not sorry.
Peter
24:30-24:33
Right? I don't either.
Eden
24:32-24:39
I don't I don't care. Um, but anyway, I just think I just think that's interesting. I just think it's interesting.
Peter
24:38-24:57
Yeah, it really is. Well a couple other really fast things on the music front and and then one game I'm gonna mention not because I've played but but because I saw that it has been released. I don't know exactly when and I picked it up. Uh and that game is Power Wash Simulator 2. Uh folks go back go back and listen.
Eden
24:54-24:56
I saw that came out.
Peter
24:57-25:12
Eden and I did uh an episode years past on Power Wash Simulator. It isn't a game I play often, but it still is a game when I just want to zen out and zone out. Holy balls. Like Power War Simulator is just fantastic. So
Eden
25:12-25:13
Yeah, it is.
Peter
25:13-25:27
I don't know if the sequel's any good. I don't know what it adds, but I saw that it was on sale for at least a few bucks off on Steam, and I said, you know what? I'm gonna throw some money your way and I'm gonna play it. So maybe hopefully in two weeks I can report back and we can see what Power Wash Simulator 2 is like.
Eden
25:28-25:29
I would be curious to hear.
Peter
25:28-25:28
And then
Eden
25:29-25:30
I have not picked it up yet, so
Peter
25:30-25:45
I I will let you know. Uh final thing I was gonna mention is a little bit on the music front. Uh you know, I I don't remember exactly why, but I started listening again to old psychotic waltz. Uh psychotic waltz is amazing.
Eden
25:43-25:44
Okay.
Peter
25:46-25:48
Are you familiar with psychotic waltz, Aiden?
Eden
25:48-25:50
The name sounds familiar.
Peter
25:50-25:56
So you remember the Arion album The Human Equation, right?
Eden
25:56-25:57
I do, yes.
Peter
25:57-26:48
So Devin Graves, aka Buddy Lackey, was one of the vocalists. I don't remember which one of the people in in the main character's head Devon plays or sang off the top of my head. But that was where I first became familiar with him. And Psychotic Welts is a band that basically released an album in nineteen ninety, nineteen ninety two, ninety four, ninety six, and then that was it. They were gone. And then Buddy Lackey, again under the name Devin Graves, formed uh the uh his second band, Dead Soul Tribe, uh, which I really liked. But anyway, I went back and I started listening to some old psychotic waltz, and man, it is just it is it is progressive in the way I like progressive. Now there was a time when I was really into I liked, say, Dream Theater, and now I just think they're a bunch of wankers who don't know how to self-edit and like to show off.
Eden
26:43-26:43
Mm-hmm.
Peter
26:48-27:02
But when we think about Rush being a progressive band, while they're insanely talented, and there were plenty of moments for you to realize that, they weren't overtly wanky and show offy in their music.
Eden
27:02-27:04
No, they're not like that.
Peter
27:03-27:27
And and it wasn't ever y you know, with with Dream Theater, you often feel like They're sitting there asking the question, well, how many weird time signatures can we throw in? And how often can we change time signature just to be like, hey, look, we're cool? And when Rush would use unique time signatures or would change time signatures, it was in favor of the song.
Eden
27:22-27:22
Mm-hmm.
Peter
27:27-28:35
It was never a, oh, look at us. And and Psychonic Waltz is progressive more in that sort of vein, where it's maybe a little bit less traditional song structures and that sort of thing, but it's never showy. It's never I again in a lot of ways they remind me a lot of Fate's Warning. And it's one of the reasons I always really liked Fate's Warning is, again, progressive without being pretentious. And if there's one thing we can say about Dream Theater is, oh good God, are they pretentious. But Psychotic Waltz, great band. Highly recommend people go back and check out. They released uh gosh 2022, 2023. Uh an album called uh uh is it unfold no. I'm thinking I'm getting my bands mixed up here. Uh The God Shape Void is what their most recent album was called. Excellent return to form, just kind of fell right in, fits right in with the other albums. Um, good band. Uh following the Psycho, apparently thing, another band that released an album recently is Psychonaut. Uh Psychonaut is a band on Polegic Records. I don't know if you're familiar with the label Pollegic Records.
Eden
28:35-28:36
I am not
Peter
28:35-28:47
It is the So it is the band the label formed by the the main folks in the band, The Ocean. I think that the Ocean is one of the most
Eden
28:46-28:46
Sure.
Peter
28:47-29:10
interesting metal bands right now. And I think what they're doing is fascinating. And and it will be interesting to see what they're doing next because uh Robin Stapps, the main guy behind it, has basically said with their most recent um with their most recent album, H Hyboreal, I think is what it was called, they've basically finished this era of the band. And a lot of m people who are in the band have been
Eden
29:08-29:08
Okay.
Peter
29:10-31:05
released to go do other things, and he will be assembling new people for the next era of the band. Anyway, anything that's on Pollegic Records I tend to find at least worth giving a check uh check out to, and Psychonaut is one of those bands. This is their third album. uh and it is really, really good. Uh it is uh it is again progressive, but not in that show-off sort of uh we're gonna make you we're gonna impress you with our technical abilities. It's just we're going to use the music in an interesting way to convey whatever it is we're trying to convey, whether it's emotions, whether it's Whatever. And so uh yeah, Wor World Maker is their most recent album. It took me a little bit to get into because it starts really sort of mellow, uh, but then it's an incredibly dynamic album. Really, really good. Final thing I'll mention briefly because I have gone long is the most recent release from the band Oramet. Oramet is funeral doom. And funeral doom is incredibly tricky. It is either just ridiculous and too much and too ponderous, or it can just be, in my opinion, sublime. Oramet, this is only their second album. The Sinking Isle is the title of the album. They have one other song in between their first and second. The Sinking Isle is just Excellent. It is wonderful, wonderful funeral doom that manages to fall into that that that second category, not ponderous, but just Just wonderful, wonderful music. I've only had a little bit of time to listen to it because it just came out on Friday. But in that little bit that I listened to, Uh Good Grief is it. Just it is a great album that I am very excited to listen to more of. So what about you? What have you been checking out? I've gone on long enough.
Eden
31:06-31:23
Well, I've been checking out some some fun well, okay. I've been checking out a lot of stuff. Not all of it's been fun. Some of it's been not very good, and I'm happy to report. They're still they're not they're putting out lots of gotchas and none of them are worth playing, friends. I tried two new ones since the last time.
Peter
31:21-31:24
So I don't need to feel bad that I'm not playing them.
Eden
31:23-33:50
No No, I've tried two new ones since the last time we chatted. Um one of them is the one that is not it's oops gotcha only for c costumes because They blinked like three or four months before the game came out and said, oh no, maybe this shouldn't be a gotcha. That is called Duet Night Abyss, which we talked about, I think, last time, again, because we talked about how they've all got terrible names. Um, it's Uh I mentioned last time it's like Warframe, but what if anime girls? And that is mostly true. But the thing that it misses from Warframe is that the the discrete motions and the discrete movements and the discrete actions do feel good the way that Warframe does. But they don't flow the way that Warframe does. So like you do have a cool like jump that like the cool jump flip sort of thing that you do in Warframe to boost over uh gaps or things like that. That's right there. They lifted it whole cloth. If you told me that they like went and stole the exact animation and then just made it anime girls instead of weird flesh robots, I'd say, yeah, yeah, they did. I can see that But then you don't keep that momentum in the same way. It doesn't, it you're not, it they don't flow into each other in the way that Warframe does because Warframe becomes almost balletic, the way that you are able to move and tie movement together and you're flipping and you're jumping and you're scaling walls and then you're pulling out your sword and you're chop chop chop. And it's really dynamic to play. And Duet Duet Night Abyss does not have the dynamism because the discreet things feel good, but they don't feel good when they're all put together. And the combat feels floaty as hell. Like I do not feel like I'm actually hitting things with these swords when I'm swinging these swords. So I played it for a few hours and it was A was real choppy too. Like you could tell this was an Unreal Engine 5 game and it's playing pretty choppy because it's an unoptimized mess. And I was like, I think I'm good. Um and then I also was the one I was secretly most excited for, because the premise seemed the most buck wild to me, is a game called Resonance Solstice. Which means nothing.
Peter
33:49-33:49
Okay.
Eden
33:50-33:52
That name means nothing, guys.
Peter
33:51-33:53
None of them do really, but
Eden
33:52-34:01
None of them do. None of them do. Some of them are more evocative than others. Resonance Solstice is not evocative. It doesn't it doesn't mean anything.
Peter
34:01-34:02
Sure.
Eden
34:01-35:07
But I was excited about this one because they said, what if it had trains? What if you were driving a train everywhere? And I was like, that does sound cool. I like trains. I'm not autistic in that particular way where I have a train hyperfixation, but I do think trains are cool. So you're telling me that there's trains, but then the combat is like What if Slay the Spire was real time? And that's not f that's not fun. I don't like that. I don't care for that. So I played that for I couldn't s this happened the other day. I woke up at like 2 a. m. the day that game came out and I could not get back to sleep. So I trundled on out here. I left Cassie and Liza asleep in our bed. I came out here and I installed the game and I played for like two hours and then it was 5 a. m. And I was like, this kid kind of sucked. And then I uninstalled it. And I went and I laid down in bed for another hour and read. And then we all got up. So Resident Solstice was not it. And uh I don't know of any others that are coming out soon.
Peter
35:05-35:06
It's too bad.
Eden
35:07-35:29
So I uh the our our dalliance with the checking out new gacha corner might be over for a bit. But uh it's all stinkers. Nothing has captured my attention. And on top of all that, on top of all that, uh Honkai Star Rail has been such a mess and I feel like the story has sucked so bad. I just uninstalled it the other day. I was like, I'm not playing this anymore.
Peter
35:28-35:29
Oh, really?
Eden
35:29-35:57
I'm good. I uninstalled all the Hoyo verse games. Genshin, not installed. Honkai Star Rail, not installed. I just uninstalled them all. The only the only one that I'm playing daily anymore is Girls Frontline to Exilium, which exilium doesn't mean anything, but at least girls frontline tells me what's happening. There's girls, and they're going to the front line. Dang it. And this is the second one, two. Anyway, uh Ghost Frontline 2 is the only one I'm playing anymore.
Peter
35:54-35:55
There you go.
Eden
35:57-37:44
But those girls are cool Uh, other things to mention really quickly. Uh, I've been reading a comic. I read the first two volumes because they're the only ones that are out in English so far, of a comic called The Color of the End, Colonel Mission in the Apocalypse. And this is a very cool kind of quiet, sad post-apocalyptic book. I talked a few months, I think it was at the very start of the year is when I got them. about Girls Last Tour, which was about the two girls on the tank who were trying to get to the top of the dead city, and they're like the only they were they ran into like three other people over the course of six books. And then it just ended and I was sad and I cried. Really good. Incredible. Color of the end asks the important question: what if we did that again? But it was one robot girl and her weird. Alien pet creature. And I was like, well, sign me the fuck up. Let's do it. And so it does feel a lot. It has the vibe of Girls Last Tour. Um, while feeling a little bit different um because it it is a little more focused on there are still kind of weird alien monsters that are here sometimes that she occasionally runs into and has to fight. But it it does have like just a very lonely vibe. She is a robot who is assigned to do cleanup of all of the like Clearly, the idea is, oh, the humans are gonna hide, the robots are gonna go clean up, and then we'll come back and take back our the planet or the city or whatever. Problem is, she's been doing this for over a hundred years at this point and has still never seen another person. And has done 2% of the amount of cleanup she is supposed to have been able to get done.
Peter
37:38-37:39
Cold
Eden
37:44-38:04
So like, there's nobody left, right? There's nobody left. Everyone's dead, right? There's no humans anywhere. Anyway, it's really good. I'm really enjoying it. Uh, it's been very, very entertaining. Um and then the only other thing I'll mention, just because uh, you know, it's worth letting people know, guess who's back playing Final Fantasy XIV?
Peter
38:04-38:09
Oh, back on Final Fantasy Fourteen
Eden
38:09-39:40
I guess I I I needed a game to play, and none of the other games have been interesting, and I thought Mayhap I should go back to Aeorsia. So I've been tooling around in Final Fantasy XIV again and having a pretty good time. The important thing is they just announced in the new update that comes out in the next couple of weeks, uh They're removing all of the class restriction on armor for glamour purposes. So you're gonna be able to put your big uh uh tanky g uh uh paladin in frilly healer's robes if you want. And you're gonna be able to put your healer in full plate armor if you feel so inclined, because they're like This is people have been asking for this basically since the game came out, and they were like, no, we've got to maintain class identity by keeping these arbitrary lines between these different glamour items. But then there's all these weird glamours that you can just get that aren't tied to your class that are weird. I I can dress like a fucking astronaut in that game right now. Legitimately. You can dress it like an astronaut. You can get a whole astronaut thing with a backpack and a big like bowl, like fishbowl helmet. You can dress like a superhero. I I for a summer event two years ago, they gave you fucking Power Rangers armor. So like You can stop with the class identity bullshit. Let me put on the frilly uh white mage robe as a black knight. It'll be fun. Just let me do it. Anyway, I'm back in Final Fantasy XIV for now.
Peter
39:38-39:38
Yeah.
Eden
39:40-39:42
We'll see how long it lasts.
Peter
39:41-39:41
Nice.
Eden
39:42-40:43
But let's move on to the main event. Tonight we wanted to put a bit of a capper on our time with Transformers. You know, we read the new Energon U the first volume of the new Energon Universe book by Daniel Warren Johnson. We read a couple of arcs of the Marvel UK comics from the 80s. And we've been talking about Transformers and thinking about them. And I'm always thinking about them because I think that when car become person and person become car, it's fun. Um, and so I propose to Peter that we watch Transformers 1, which is the Transformers movie that came out last year. It's the first, well, it's the first since the 1986 original movie. that is fully animated, is not like uh there's no people in this one. Um and uh I went to it last year and I remembered really liking it. So I thought, hey, this will be a fun kind of capper on our time with Transformers. So Peter, my question for you is, what did you think about Transformers 1?
Peter
40:44-40:55
Well, I'd like to start with this, and I would like to say that I am part of the problem. But I am devastated at how poorly this movie did.
Eden
40:50-40:56
Hit me. Right
Peter
40:56-41:00
Because hot fucking damn, I loved this movie.
Eden
40:59-41:01
This is a good movie.
Peter
41:01-41:05
And I just want more. I want more movies.
Eden
41:03-41:14
This is a really this is a really good movie. This is e I e I think I said this on the podcast at the time. This is the best Transformers movie by a large margin.
Peter
41:15-41:24
I think in terms of quality, yes, I think that the nineteen eighty-six film has a nice little chokehold on me with its uh nostalgia.
Eden
41:22-41:25
I mean, yes.
Peter
41:24-41:35
But I agree that that this is actually the best Transformers movie that has ever been made, probably by a significant margin.
Eden
41:36-41:37
Yeah
Peter
41:36-41:49
I mean, this and all of the live action transformers, like it kind of feels like the live action transformers have Like like you kind of want like like Transformers one wants to slap them and be like, get my name out of your mouth, you bitch.
Eden
41:50-42:04
Like, truly, like this this is a really competently done origin story for hey how did Optimus and Megatron become these guys that they is
Peter
42:03-42:04
Yeah
Eden
42:04-42:12
And they tell it really well, it's well paced, it looks really incredible. Like the animation, I think, is really well done
Peter
42:12-42:13
That's awesome.
Eden
42:12-42:34
Um I many of the performances are very, very good. Some of them are a little weaker, which we'll get to, I'm sure, as we talk. But some of these performances are like all-timers versions of these characters. Um and it it it it brings you in, makes you care about all these characters, and then when things break bad, you're sad about it, you know?
Peter
42:34-42:34
Yeah
Eden
42:34-42:48
Like it it genuinely makes you feel something. When Megatron breaks bread and you're like, oh man, bro, it didn't have to go like this. But also maybe it did have to go like this, and that's kind of what the movie's about.
Peter
42:48-42:50
It's true, it's true.
Eden
42:49-43:02
All right. So I'm gonna do a quick recap of what happens in Transformers 1, and then we'll talk about how we felt about it, what we liked, what we didn't like. It sounds like we liked a lot. But it's worth talking about. So as I mentioned, this is a prequel.
Peter
43:01-43:01
Yeah.
Eden
43:03-43:57
This is set on Cybertron. Um, you know many, many years ago, Primus, who was a planet-sized transformer, uh basically the god of the transformers, transformed into a planet. and made a bunch of Transformers. And they were able to live on their planet. They thrived as a society. They were led by the first thirteen the Transformers that were created, which were the primes. There's always there were thirteen of them. They basically led their society until there was these attacks from these aliens called the Quintessons. uh or maybe they call them the quintessons in the sp I don't remember. Either they say it different than I say it, or I say it different than they say it. One of the two. I say quintessence. I think they say quintessons or something like that in the movie. It doesn't matter.
Peter
43:57-43:59
You know, now I can't remember.
Eden
43:57-43:58
Regardless.
Peter
43:59-44:05
I I'm feeling like I've I'm having a Mandela effect moment, so I couldn't I couldn't tell you
Eden
44:03-44:15
That's that's fair. I grew up calling them the Quintessens because they were also in Transformers the Movie from nineteen eighty-six and they had three heads. Uh you remember those guys?
Peter
44:15-44:15
It's true.
Eden
44:15-44:16
That was them.
Peter
44:16-44:16
Oh yeah.
Eden
44:16-44:21
Um anyway, uh that's the quintessence, baby.
Peter
44:17-44:19
That's I did not put that together until now, but yes.
Eden
44:22-47:10
Um so they show up and are raiding the planet for Energon. The primes are pushing back against them, and then the primes were all slain, and only one of the primes survived, who is the now leader of Ayacon City, which is the main place where all the Transformers live. And his name is Sentinel Prime, and he is the leader of their society. And it opens on Orion Pax and D16, who are mining robots who do not have transformation cogs. Um, which are the thing that you have to have inside of you in order to be able to do the thing a transformer does, which is transform. And so basically, there is an entire underclass of people. That do not have transformation cogs for whatever reason. We are not told at the start of the film why there is this class hierarchy between the Transformers and the uh the the non-cog robots. Um and many of them are working in mining, and that is where our Orion and uh Pax and D16 are. Um things kind of go poorly for them as they try to save Jazz, who gets trapped as a cave-in is happening. Um, and that causes their superior Alita 1 to get demoted. Um eventually Orion gets the stupid idea to enter a race. uh that they were doing uh to like uh sentinel prime has been going out to uh uh ostensibly find the matrix of leadership which is the the uh essence of the planet, uh, Cybertron, and what caused them to be caused the planet to spontaneously produce Energon. And it disappeared when all the primes were killed. Um, and so he has been going out looking for it. He comes back from an unsuccessful uh um uh uh de uh expedition for it and decides to uh have the people have a race in order for them to feel better about it Orion and D16 end up in the race because Orion Pax is like, we gotta show them that Coglis robots got it too, baby. Um, and they enter they enter the race, and it causes everyone to kind of freak out. And D16 thinks they're gonna get in trouble. Orion's like, it's gonna be fine, it's gonna be fine. Sentinel comes, promises them that things are gonna go great for them. He's gonna send them to their to his personal like recovery bay, and then they're gonna go and be like the face of the Cogless robots. And then their old boss, Darkwing, shows up, throws them into the basement, garbage incineration. in order because he upstaged the they upstaged him in the race. And that is where they meet B127 who goes by B, aka Bumble B.
Peter
47:09-47:11
Bumblebee
Eden
47:10-48:11
Um They find a distress message from one of the primes, Alpha Tryon. They decide to try to make it to the surface because they think they can find the uh matrix of leadership there and therefore present it to Sentinel Prime. and and uh save their society. And they're like, we're gonna do it. They get themselves, along with Alita, because she works in waste management now, onto a uh an automated waste train that is going to dump waste on the surface because nobody can live on the surface of the planet because the quintessens are up there. Various and sundry things happen. Um And because of that, they find Alpha Tryon finally. Alpha Trion, they are able to resuscitate him. They find all of the dead bodies of the primes. But Alpha Trion is barely still alive. They're able to resuscitate him with some Energon. He explains they were actually all betrayed by Sentinel Prime. Sentinel took them all out and made a deal.
Peter
48:09-48:11
Who was not a prime?
Eden
48:11-50:13
Who he was not a prime. He was not one of the primes. He was their lackey, essentially. He was their secretary. And but he made a deal with the Quintessens. in order to let him rule Cybertron. And he is paying them off with all of the Energon that they are finding. And this obviously pisses our team of four off. Alpha Trion gives them transformation cogs from some of the deceased uh primes. So now they can transform. Various and sundry things ensue. Uh, you know. Uh some fun action sequences. They run into the former Cybertronian High Guard, which is basically all of our good Decepticon friends who we all remember. Starscream, Soundwave, Shockwave. Things break bad. Alpha Trion is taken back to Iacon where Sentinel Prime slays him. D16 is captured. Um and is taken back as well alongside many of the honor guard or the high guard, whereas Alita One and or and B Uh Alita One and Orion Pax are not captured, so they try to come up with an idea to save them and to expose Sentinel's lies. Um uh D16 stands up to Sentinel Prime. He's the only one to ever stand up to Sentinel Prime, gets himself dis like disfigured for it. but refuses to stand down. Uh and at that time Optimus well not Optimus, Orion goes down, meets with the Coglis miners, explains what has happened, and says we gotta rise up, guys. We gotta have a we've got to have revolution. And so they do. And all these things happen. Uh eventually, you know, D16 is fighting with Sentinel Prime. And Orion says, you can't kill him, man. We can't start we can't build a new society uh with an assassination. We can't do this Uh and he tries to stop D-16 from shooting Sentinel and gets shot himself and plunges into the planet's core. Um D-16
Peter
50:13-50:18
I think I I think I just want to interject here because and I'm sure we'll come back to it, but important
Eden
50:16-50:17
Let's go for it.
Peter
50:20-50:28
Not surprising. I mean, here's the thing I'm briefly gonna say. Not really any surprises in this movie, but still executed very well.
Eden
50:26-50:29
No, yeah
Peter
50:28-50:46
But as as Or Orion Pax is hanging off the edge of where this pit, missing one of his arms, huge hole through his chest, and D-16 has grabbed him. is holding him, D16 looks down and you know, says, I'm done saving you, and actually lets him go.
Eden
50:46-50:50
Yeah. And his eyes change from yellow to red.
Peter
50:49-50:50
Turn red.
Eden
50:51-52:58
He go evil in that second Um, which is a bummer. Um, he falls into the planet core. Uh D16 uh bisects Sentinel in front of everybody. removes Megatronus Prime's core, which is Transformation Cog, which Sentinel had stolen from him, places it in himself, names himself Megatron, and basically says, we're taking over the planet now. And the high guard starts uh rioting. Again, Orion Pax falling into the core of the planet. Primus, the core, the god of the autobot or of the transformers. finds him worthy and gives him the matrix of leadership, heals him, and turns him into Optimus Prime. He rockets back out of the uh of the planet core. He's able to stop Megatron. Um and they have this like brawl that just comes to like a head And he says, okay, we can't do this. We like he refuse he's not gonna kill him, because this is his best friend in the world, even if he has crossed some lines that Optimus Prime doesn't want to cross. So he lets him and the high guard go and they all fly out. And then Optimus is like, okay, we are calling we are, you know, creating our society. We're building a new society. The opens the matrix of leadership. The Energon starts flowing again. All of the cogs for the cogless miners appear, go into their bodies, and now it is no longer a stratified society. They are now a stateless society. And that is where it ends, with the Decepticons up on the surface, following Megatron, and Optimus leading the Autobots from inside the planet. And like putting an a message out there Hey, if you come back, Quintessens, we're gonna fight you this time. And that's where the movie ends. And really, the important thing about this movie is the friendship between D16 and Orion Pax. That is the motor upon which this movie turns. And they sell it, man.
Peter
52:58-54:36
Hundred percent. Hundred percent. Like like you said, that's that's the heart of this movie because as I said There weren't really any surprises. I didn't feel like anything uh I I I everything you kind of knew, if you knew Transformers at all, you could see where this was going. But that's okay. Being predictable doesn't mean bad as long as you do a good job. And they do a really good job along the way. And part of that good job that they do is you see this relationship between Orion Pax and D16 and you see the You know, D16 being frustrated with Orion for being a little bit, you know, a little flighty. He's a little, he's kind of got his heads in the clouds. He's He's not just staying in his lane all the time. He's trying to, he keeps sneaking into the archives because he's trying to figure out where's the matrix of leadership because he knows this is going to make everybody's life better and all this stuff. And and D is puts up with it and you can tell has kind of saved his butt a number of times, but they care about each other and and it it feels When D16 basically becomes Megatron and says that line, I'm not say I'm done saving you, or I'm not saving you anymore. And and lets Orion go, it's a gut punch because the friendship and the relationship between the two of them
Eden
54:30-54:33
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Peter
54:37-54:42
was earned. They really sold it well enough that that you bought into it.
Eden
54:42-54:57
Yeah. It's really well done. And I gotta say, like I think Hemsworth does an okay job. I think he's probably the weakest part of this voice cast. Brian Tyree Henry kills it as Megatron man.
Peter
54:56-55:06
Oh, he does, and the subtle change in the way he does the voice acting throughout the course of the movie.
Eden
55:07-55:13
As you see him become darker and his voice reflects that, it's really something else.
Peter
55:07-56:04
At the end Uh-huh. Yeah. And and and it's not the thing, the other thing that that's so well done about it is it isn't an abrupt change. Just like Megatron's turn isn't an abrupt change, it isn't a surprise because we've seen Especially as they I mean we've seen we've seen D's frustration with Orion. We've seen him just sort of being exhausted at his shenanigans. But then they realize the truth and just the bitterness that he expresses through his voice acting. At the realization that they've been used and abused their whole lives, that it was a systematic keeping them down.
Eden
56:00-56:01
Yeah
Peter
56:06-56:13
And and from there it's just this downhill slope until it just he just goes right off the edge of the cliff.
Eden
56:14-57:04
Yeah, w one thing I didn't say in my uh summary, like there so there are these cogless robots and then there are transformers who can transform. And uh Alpha Tryon explains to them, uh, you were you were created with a cog. Someone took it from you. Someone took this from you and took the ability for you to choose who you wanted to be from you, took your freedom from you. And like that him realizing that it he was not in the situation where he was, an overworked minor, because that's just society. And like Sentinel Prime was doing everything he could to protect them and help the people. He looked up to him to Sentinel Prime more than anyone else. And so to see all of that crash down and to realize that was taken from me.
Peter
57:04-57:05
Yeah.
Eden
57:04-57:15
It crushes him. It destroys him in a way that it doesn't hit quite as hard for the other people because they didn't have Sentinel on as high of a pedestal as he did.
Peter
57:14-57:26
Mm-hmm. I do think y you can tell obviously that by the end, once he's become Optimus Prime, they're doing a lot of voice modulation trickery.
Eden
57:24-57:30
They're doing yeah, they're they're deepening Hemsworth's voice considerably, yeah.
Peter
57:26-57:34
To to Yeah. And and so there was a brief part of me that was like, why didn't you just use Peter Cullen then?
Eden
57:34-57:36
He's too old.
Peter
57:35-57:42
But He's too old and it his his voice would not have worked as Orion Pax at all
Eden
57:42-57:43
Yeah, I'm with you.
Peter
57:44-58:12
So I think that it was an understandable decision they made. Now, while I agree, I think Chris Hemsworth is one of the weaker voice actors Um, I you can tell, at least I felt, that in the interactions between Orion and Alita One I thought it actually worked really well because Scarlett Johansson and Chris Hemsworth have such a long history of working together with all of the Marvel stuff, that there was actual good chemistry between those two characters.
Eden
58:07-58:13
Yeah, for sure. I agree.
Peter
58:12-58:27
And and I think that that really worked. That You they felt like I mean they felt like she's what they were, which is she's been working with these boneheads and she's been putting up with them and she's trying to climb the ladder and she gets knocked down by them. And so
Eden
58:27-58:28
Mm-hmm.
Peter
58:28-58:36
You know, that actually that aspect of it really worked. Uh, I briefly want to mention John Hamm as Sentinel Prime because
Eden
58:35-58:37
Oh, he kills it.
Peter
58:37-58:44
At first, I didn't think he was very good. And then you realize, oh no, this is all intentional. And he does such a good job.
Eden
58:42-58:45
Uh-huh. Yeah.
Peter
58:44-58:45
So good.
Eden
58:45-58:49
Uh I mean I think Johansson kills it. I think this is the best she ha
Peter
58:47-58:49
I think she does a great job.
Eden
58:49-58:54
It's the best I've seen her in anything since Under the Skin. Because I think normally she's not very good.
Peter
58:55-58:55
Yeah.
Eden
58:55-59:12
But when she's good, she is really good. But normally I feel like she is skating. Especially like the mar especially later period Marvel or you know other things I've seen her in. I'm like, mm, this ain't it, Scarlett. She really sells it here. And and you know, it's easy when you just go into a booth.
Peter
59:09-59:10
She does
Eden
59:12-59:16
She does a great job. Lawrence Fishburne, Larry's here as Alpha Tryon.
Peter
59:16-59:17
Yep.
Eden
59:17-59:18
He kills it.
Peter
59:18-59:22
And I think that Kegan Michael Key was awesome as B. Like
Eden
59:22-59:24
I hate him, but they're supposed to a little bit.
Peter
59:24-59:30
Oh, that's the thing, is he's supposed to be annoying. And and I think he does a great job of being annoying.
Eden
59:29-59:32
Oh, he's very annoying. He's very annoying.
Peter
59:32-59:33
Yeah.
Eden
59:32-59:36
It's a good performance. I don't care for the character, and you're not supposed to, I think, on purpose.
Peter
59:36-59:38
I think you're right.
Eden
59:36-59:39
The kids, he's there for the kids. He ain't there for me.
Peter
59:40-59:57
Uh-huh. But uh no, like I say, I I finished it and was very, very disappointed at its poor box office. uh reception because because I'm still I'm still and having now just watched it, I'm I am holding out hope.
Eden
59:52-59:53
Yeah
Peter
59:57-01:00:06
That somebody somewhere is gonna go, yeah, let's let's fund another story in this same universe with these characters.
Eden
01:00:06-01:00:24
I'd I'd really like them to. Um You know, we'll see. I don't know. They apparently are trying to get Cooley back uh to do one of the live-action movies, which I don't know about that one. But guys never I don't know that the guy's ever done live action.
Peter
01:00:22-01:00:27
I mean,
Eden
01:00:24-01:00:34
Ever looking at his directorial credits, Toy Story 4, Transformers 1, and some movies that aren't out yet. So I mean, I guess though. He did good. I like this movie a lot.
Peter
01:00:34-01:00:38
Hey, I don't think he could there's any way he could be worse than Michael Bay
Eden
01:00:34-01:00:47
I think it's quite good. You know That's true. That's very true. Although Rise of the Rise of the Beasts was also pretty bad.
Peter
01:00:43-01:01:02
I mean see, I haven't seen I I think the last tr live action Transformers movie I saw might have been the third one. Dark of the Moon, because I never I haven't seen Bumblebee.
Eden
01:00:58-01:01:00
Did you never see Bumblebee?
Peter
01:01:02-01:01:03
I've heard that it's worth seeing.
Eden
01:01:04-01:01:05
It's the only one worth watching.
Peter
01:01:04-01:01:05
I just haven't gotten around to it.
Eden
01:01:06-01:01:10
If you've not seen any of the other ones, the only one worth watching is Bumblebee
Peter
01:01:08-01:01:14
Yeah. No, I never did see Age of Extinction or Last Night or Rise of the Beasts.
Eden
01:01:14-01:01:20
You mean you didn't see any of the Marky Mark ones? Oh, what what a shame
Peter
01:01:19-01:01:21
No, no, he is in Darker the Moon.
Eden
01:01:21-01:01:22
No, he's not.
Peter
01:01:23-01:01:24
Isn't he?
Eden
01:01:23-01:01:33
No, Dark of the Moon is the last Shia LaBeouf one. It's the one where Chicago gets destroyed by the wormy worms. And you can tell that uh um
Peter
01:01:30-01:01:31
Maybe
Eden
01:01:34-01:01:40
Megan Fox was supposed to be there and they had to do a quick rewrite of the love interest because uh she's not there.
Peter
01:01:41-01:01:56
Maybe I did see Age of Extinction then just because I had to have seen one with Mark Wahlberg because I remember specifically thinking Why are you trying just it was so gross. The relationship between him and and the I isn't it his daughter in the movie?
Eden
01:01:56-01:02:02
His daughter and the daughter's boyfriend and the boyfriend carrying around a little card about Romeo and Juliet Laws.
Peter
01:01:57-01:01:57
It felt
Eden
01:02:02-01:02:04
That's age of extinction, baby.
Peter
01:02:04-01:02:06
Yeah, then I guess I did see that one.
Eden
01:02:05-01:02:16
Where he's like, it's fine for this 20-year-old to date a 16-year-old by Texas law. Here's a card I have in my wallet that's laminated. And you're like, that's weird, bro. That's weird.
Peter
01:02:16-01:02:17
Yeah.
Eden
01:02:16-01:02:19
That doesn't need to be here, Michael.
Peter
01:02:19-01:02:29
Uh I must have seen that because I do I do remember thinking that there was just uh uncomfortableness around his his daughter. But that's all I remember.
Eden
01:02:27-01:02:33
It's really bad. It's really bad. Also, Marky Mark is not a good actor.
Peter
01:02:31-01:02:31
Jeez.
Eden
01:02:33-01:02:38
He's good in one movie and but and that's Boogie Knights, and he's never been in anything since.
Peter
01:02:33-01:02:42
No, no, he's not. Yeah. Yeah, no, this was great.
Eden
01:02:40-01:03:14
Anyway, any last thoughts we uh I like this movie a lot. I think it's really, really fun. Um Like you, I still have a lot of affection for the 86 film. Uh we, you know, we were joking at the comic shop yesterday when I talked about how we were gonna be watching this movie. Uh and uh Uh i my friend Jackson was like, yo, you mean Oscar winning? And you know, because he was just, you know, taking the piss. It obviously hasn't won an Oscar for anything. But you know what should have won an Oscar? Stan Bush should have won an Oscar for Best Original Song for the Touch.
Peter
01:03:14-01:03:19
Okay, okay, I gotta just throw this in because I'm glad you brought that up. That was one thing
Eden
01:03:18-01:03:20
That's what this movie was lacking.
Peter
01:03:20-01:03:28
But that's one thing I loved about this movie is there's just a bunch of little things like that thrown in there.
Eden
01:03:27-01:03:31
Oh, they're so tiny little things that uh that if you weren't like a
Peter
01:03:29-01:03:30
Like
Eden
01:03:31-01:03:39
If you weren't like a sicko who watched that movie a thousand times recorded off TV when you were a kid, like we did, you wouldn't have caught half of those jokes.
Peter
01:03:39-01:03:40
No
Eden
01:03:39-01:03:46
But there are so many throwaway lines that are references to the 86 film, but that work in context still.
Peter
01:03:46-01:03:53
I laughed out loud when Alita One says to Orion Pex, you don't have the touch or the power
Eden
01:03:53-01:03:54
Yeah
Peter
01:03:54-01:04:00
And then I also laughed out loud when B introduces one of his created robots as Aatron.
Eden
01:04:01-01:04:04
That was funny, like A Ron.
Peter
01:04:03-01:04:13
Yeah. Yep. There were just there were there were a lot of little things like that that I appreciated that didn't feel out of place, so they didn't seem
Eden
01:04:05-01:04:06
It was good.
Peter
01:04:14-01:04:23
Like it wasn't again if you didn't know you weren't gonna be like that was weird, why did they say that? But if you know, you're like, oh, I see what you did there
Eden
01:04:24-01:04:33
Did you know that one of the primary writers, if not the primary writer for this film, also one of the writers, the primary writer on Thunderbolt's asterisk?
Peter
01:04:33-01:04:36
Hey, there we go. Another good movie.
Eden
01:04:36-01:04:37
Yeah.
Peter
01:04:37-01:04:39
Another good movie.
Eden
01:04:39-01:04:40
So there you go.
Peter
01:04:39-01:04:39
So.
Eden
01:04:40-01:04:43
Anyway, if you haven't seen it folks and you want like
Peter
01:04:40-01:04:41
There you go.
Eden
01:04:43-01:04:50
A pretty light, pretty fun, but also dynamic and cool to look at. Action movie, go watch uh Transformers one. It's pretty great.
Peter
01:04:50-01:04:51
Yeah.
Eden
01:04:51-01:04:51
They should have made more.
Peter
01:04:52-01:04:55
Highly recommended. Highly recommended. So
Eden
01:04:56-01:05:10
Anyway, we'll be back in two weeks with another exciting episode. Um feel free to give us a rating or a review, or you can reach out to us at feedback at the middle of culture. com. Um, and otherwise, we'll be back in a couple of weeks.
Peter
01:05:10-01:05:16
We will and uh thanks again for suggesting this because this was a fun movie.
Eden
01:05:17-01:05:17
Yeah.