Imagine This - Ideas & Stories for Creative, Meaningful Teaching

What does high school feel like when students get two full weeks to work on one thing they chose themselves?

In this episode of Imagine This, Dylan sits down with Finny Bicycle, a recent graduate of Imagine High in Chilliwack, BC. Imagine High is a public integrated arts and technology school of about 300 students, where English is paired with another subject like 20th century world history or outdoor ed, teachers get shared prep time to build projects together, and twice a year every regular class stops for two weeks so students can go deep on one thing. Finny spent every one of those deep dives building miniature dioramas: a run-down city street where the pedestrians have tiny blue LEDs glowing in their hands, a forest fire made of stuffing and airbrush sitting next to the highway that helped cause it.

Finny describes what integrated learning actually looks like from a student desk, why the public exhibition at the end of a deep dive changes how hard students work, and what it was like to stand back and watch strangers find the message buried in the details of his own artwork. He also walks through the Grade 11 social justice assignment that turned into a school newspaper club, kept running for two more years, and published three issues a year of original student writing and school journalism.

At the Deeper Learning Conference this summer, Finny co-led an hour-long workshop for a room of principals, teachers, fellow students and educational leaders, running them through the same brainstorming process focused on student agency that his class used. He starts at the University of the Fraser Valley this fall, taking history and sociology with a teaching program to follow.

This conversation is for educators who want to know what student agency looks like from the other side of the desk, and for anyone who suspects the fastest way to find out whether a school is working is to ask a student.


About Finny Bicycle
Finny Bicycle is a recent graduate of Imagine High. He has been profoundly impacted by his experience with project based real-world learning. He plans to become a high school social studies teacher and integrate his teaching with different subjects and connections to the real world, with a focus on social justice and areas students care about. He loves art and building dioramas, in his free time and at school.


In this episode, you’ll hear:
  • (00:34) - Introducing Finny Bicycle, Imagine High and its learning philosophy and the Deeper Learning Conference
  • (02:59) - Integrated learning across subjects at Imagine High
  • (05:38) - School culture, schedules, and collaborative teaching as experience by as a student
  • (11:25) - Deep Dives and the freedom to pursue meaningful work at Imagine High
  • (12:46) - Finny’s creative journey through creating dioramas during Deep Dives at Imagine High
  • (14:11) - How Finny uses art to explore social justice and climate issues
  • (18:27) - Why public exhibitions make learning meaningful to students
  • (21:35) - Connecting the school to the wider community
  • (26:30) - Students as peers at the Deeper Learning Conference and Finny’s experience as a participant and presenter
  • (32:48) - How student agency drives engagement
  • (33:14) - Creating and growing the newspaper club
  • (39:05) - Facilitating ideas for students and solving real, local community problems
  • (43:01) - Creativity, teaching, and the future of learning
  • (46:22) - Why Imagine High unlocked Finny’s creativity
  • (50:05) - Closing thoughts and reflections on the conversation


Check out Finny's Dioramas
  • Student Spotlight - A collection of artist statements and works of art by diorama artist, Finny Bicycle

Resources discussed in this episode:
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Contact Classmate: 

Creators and Guests

Host
Dylan Ismail
Dylan Ismail is the host of Imagine This and an Educational Technology Coach with Classmate, a Vancouver based team that helps people in schools succeed with technology through fun, collaborative learning experiences.
Guest
Finny Bicycle

What is Imagine This - Ideas & Stories for Creative, Meaningful Teaching?

Imagine This is a podcast about what’s possible in classrooms.

Each episode features conversations with teachers who are building meaningful, creative (and sometimes boldly real-world) projects — the kind that help students create work that matters beyond school. From documentary field trips and immersive role-playing games to student-made podcasts and more, we explore ideas that make learning feel alive.

Hosted by Dylan from Classmate — a team that partners with educators to co-create fun, collaborative learning experiences — the show blends reflection and storytelling. Some stories come from classrooms we collaborate in; others come from schools and educators we meet along the way. Each episode includes a teacher interview alongside reflection from the Classmate team on what worked, what surprised us, and what we’re still learning.

This show is for K–12 educators (and really anyone who cares about learning) who want school to feel more meaningful, more imaginative, and more real.

Finny (00:00:02)
The teachers gave us a project where it was a very broad prompt simply to ⁓ create an initiative that would make the school community a better place. Some of the ideas were ⁓ creating a music lending library, painting murals in the bathroom, ⁓ a school newspaper club, ⁓ all kinds of really cool initiatives that people wanted to do. a interviews with grade nines and grade 12s and make it into a video so that it would be ⁓ like bridging the gap between them. From then on, we were the newspaper club.

Dylan (00:00:29)
And that lasted longer than just your

Finny (00:00:30)
That lasted longer than just the that yeah, that grade grade eleven class.

Dylan (00:00:34)
⁓ Welcome to Imagine This, a podcast about what's possible in classrooms. My name is Dylan Ismail, and I'm an ed tech coach with Classmate, a team in Vancouver, BC, who helps people in schools succeed with technology. On this episode, I'm speaking with Finny Bicycle, a student and recent graduate of Imagine High. Imagine High is an integrated arts and technology high school in Chilliwack, BC.

It's a public school where project-based learning, community connection, and integrated subjects are at the core of the student experience. Students work through interdisciplinary projects that pull content from multiple subject areas, ⁓ and it's not by accident. The curriculum at Imagine is built for that kind of learning from the bottom up. The clearest example of this is the deep dives that they run twice a year. At the end of the fall semester, and again at the end of the spring semester, students spend two full weeks on one project that they're passionate about.

Sometimes it's a topic a teacher offers, and sometimes it's a personal project they plan out on their own. Each one ends with an exhibition of learning, open to the school community and the public. I met Finny at the Deeper Learning Conference. He was there with a group of other Imagine High students attending the three day conference alongside other educators, school and district leaders, and administrators, not just as a volunteer to help the conference run, but as peers.

Finny led a workshop and spoke at the closing keynote about what it means to enable student agency in learning. In this episode, we get his firsthand account of his experience at the conference, plus what student agency has meant to him as a learner, how he experienced his deep dives at Imagine High, ⁓ and where he's headed next, a teaching degree at the University of the Fraser Valley, and how he plans to build this same type of learner agency for his future students.

Let's get into the conversation. ⁓ Thanks for being on the podcast, Finny. ⁓ There's one thing that I want you to explain more than anything for some of our listeners out there, and that is what Imagine High is. Because I think with a school name like Imagine High, people have maybe a fictional or sort of like

Finny (00:02:32)
Thank you for having me here.

Dylan (00:02:50)
Head in the sky understanding of what a school named Imagine High might be. So could you tell me what an integrated high school looks like from the inside? ⁓

Finny (00:02:59)
I feel like with Imagine High, there's two ⁓ things that really stand out as different from ⁓ a normal high school. ⁓ One being integrated learning. So Imagine High has a really great structure of ⁓ integrated learning. And when I say integrated learning, I mean all the subjects are what whatever you're whatever class you're in. They're kind of combined together in a way that is mirrors the real world. In ⁓ in the real world or ⁓ whatever, life after high school, you're you're ⁓

Your life isn't going to be divided into all these separate little boxes: math, science, English, and social studies. That would be ridiculous. No, of course, all of these, all of the things you're doing in your career, in your in your life, in whatever part of your life, it's it's all kind of integrated. It's all you're gonna be using it at all all these different skills in whatever different ways. And so imagine how he kind of tries to follow that. And whether it be ⁓

Teachers doing team teaching where they team teach a class and maybe one has an expertise in math and one has in math and science and one has an expertise in English and socials, and they come together to do a really cool combined project. Or it's just a teacher that is really passionate about letting students do the learning ⁓ in in various different integrated ways. If it feels different. The second part that I want to talk about is ⁓ meeting students where they're at and letting them ⁓ choose how they want to do their learning. So often you'll have a project.

Where I don't know, maybe you're learning about some specific thing in history or science or whatever. And, you know, the standard thing would maybe you write an essay about that. And imagine I often the projects aren't just you can write an essay. You could write an essay, but you could also do a painting with an artist statement or make a song or do a play or even make a podcast, like a podcast episode or something. And it all it gives students the chance to ⁓ show their learning in a way that they are.

comfortable with and that they're passionate with. And maybe they didn't feel like they were good at that subject before, but if they're able to do it in by showing they're learning by making a really detailed painting and writing about why that's meaningful, they can shine in that in that area. And that's what it's all about, giving students a place to shine in the way that is best for them.

Dylan (00:05:11)
An amazing description of what it's like to be in that school. I wanna hear from you what your like day-to-day looked like at the school. So you you recently graduated at Imagine High back in June. You are now an a fresh alumni of Imagine High. ⁓ But what did your day-to-day look like ⁓ at the school? Was it going from class to class? Were you kind of like in your own ⁓ bubble working on the things that you wanted to work on? What did that look like?

Finny (00:05:38)
I can't compare it to another high school because I've never been there, but it's a really great environment. It's a very inclusive environment. Everyone is kind of accepting of everyone else. And it it's a very small school, about only I gotta check the number later, but only about maybe 300 kids. ⁓ And so, you know, just walking through the halls, people are they they kind of smile a lot. You wave, you you see people you know, and it's just it's a very positive, ⁓ very positive environment. The classes are

Really interesting. They so the the kind of structure is for the first for grade nine, 10, you will have your you're you'll be with a cohort doing the like a homeroom class. Yeah, you'll you'll have a in grade nine and ten you'll have a homeroom class. But then ⁓ in grade eleven and twelve, yeah, you'll in grade nine and ten you'll have a homeroom class. And then in the afternoons or the mornings, depending on how they've laid it out, you have a full, full block for your elective. And so it's you can get really deep into your electives. They have these.

They're like two or three hour blocks. So you you do that elective for the whole quarter. And so I could really get into if I had a woodworking class every day in the afternoon, I would be doing that woodworking class. And I mean in the morning I would have the normal subjects. But coming back to that big, big chunk of time to do that, you can really get into depth there and do really cool, really cool projects.

Dylan (00:06:59)
So your your after lunchtime ⁓ is when you have an elective on, like you said, woodworking. Yeah.

Finny (00:07:05)
Yeah, or whatever you choose. And they have all kinds of really cool options. You could do game development, make a video game.

Dylan (00:07:10)
about the game development class. Yeah. ⁓ You didn't take that class. I didn't take that class. I when I was at your school, I saw some of the game cabinets that had been made from, ⁓ I'm guessing from that class. And they were super detailed. There was like artwork, embedded screens right into the cabinet. Yeah. They seemed amazing. Yeah. So what I'm hearing is that those students get three months to work on those projects.

Finny (00:07:33)
Yeah, they get a long time, like a whole quarter. So that's yeah, a quarter of the year. And I mean it's a really nice environment. You also in grade 11 and 12, then you have not a homeroom anymore. You have your your ⁓ big blocks, one block in the morning, one in the afternoon for whatever you might have a whole science block or whatever. But they're ⁓ one really cool thing is the ⁓ English pairings. All the English first peoples are actually paired with another class. So

That's kind of one very concrete example of how integration happens. For example, in grade 12, just this last year I was in an English First Peoples paired with 20th century world history. And we looked at ⁓ all this history, but through an English First Peoples lens, and we did English stuff like writing. And and I've also been in an English First Peoples social justice class and we did real-world social justice projects where we were really getting into the

nitty gritty of it. And then I've also been in, yeah, grade eleven and twelve. So those this but there's also other things like English First Peoples paired with Outdoor Ed, where people are doing going out on hikes and doing nature journaling. And that's always really cool. I've I I wish I'd taken that class as well, but it's ⁓ like I needed another year. Yeah.

Dylan (00:08:47)
Like you needed another year at the school. ⁓ What was your relationship like with the teachers at the school? Because obviously, with such deep integration, you need a certain type of leadership that allows students to sort of experience these classes in a way that that gives them sort of a control over what they're learning. So, what was your experience like with the with the teachers there?

Finny (00:09:07)
Yeah, it I loved all the teachers. I thought that they were so inspiring to me. ⁓ And ⁓ the things that peop that people would come up with were really cool. Just you would come into a class, like one of my one of my all-time favorite classes was biology. And it was just a normal biology class, but my biology teacher, Mr. Mr. Buxton, would bring in all these like cool specimens of animals and stuff like that. And we'd get to ⁓ do also really cool experiments and stuff.

my I I I don't know, I just name dropped one teacher, but I gotta say I like all the teachers. ⁓ Miss Maxwell, Mr. Taylor, my woodwork teacher, all of these people. And they all, because it's such a small group of staff, they're really ⁓ it's not like cliquey like another high school for the staff. I've talked to them. They're really all kind of friends with each other and they get to work together often. They have this, I'm I'm not sure the specifics, but they have collab time and a integrated prep where they

Dylan (00:09:41)
You can name drop as many as you want.

Finny (00:10:05)
actually get to like work with other teachers or the integrated design team and ⁓ just come up with with projects that they could possibly do in their class or together and do some sort of team teaching thing. They're

Dylan (00:10:18)
I'm and I'm sensing that like as a learner in these classes, you see the payoff from those collab times because you're getting like a much richer experience by having two teachers who might have collaborated on a subject. Yeah. And you're seeing like how these things are connected. Yes. Instead of having, you know, your math teacher teach math and your English teacher teach English and they've never talked to each other. And you're expected to find the connection between those two classes.

Finny (00:10:42)
No, definitely. I think it's really, really good. And it's a powerful tool for teachers as well who get to you know, it's just it's it's nice to be able to work with someone else, I think, and bounce ideas off each other and maybe one of you has a great idea for a lesson plan and people can add new things to that and make it even better. Yeah.

Dylan (00:11:00)
So we've got this sort of idea ⁓ of integrated classrooms that are exploring like different topics from different areas and teachers who are might who might be experts in different areas, but that are collaborating on classes together in order to teach like experiences for you. There's also this idea of the deep dives that happen every term. Can you tell me a little bit about what those are and how those are or what you've done with your deep dives?

Finny (00:11:25)
Yeah, I gotta tell you about deep dives. Deep dives are just incredible. One of the one of the big things that is different about Imagine High. Yeah. So twice a year, once before the winter break and once before the summer break, normal classes at Imagine completely stop. ⁓ And students get to pick from ⁓ a wide array of electives to do for that two weeks all day, one one class.

Dylan (00:11:47)
Are those related to those electives you were talking about before, or could they be completely separate?

Finny (00:11:50)
They could be they're completely separate offerings, but they there is some similarities. There's also a game jam deep dive and art deep dives. But some of the options are really cool. Yeah, as I've mentioned, video game development, but there's also board game development that people do. Or yeah, outdoor ed where people they just go on hikes every day. ⁓ Or there's an Imagine Palooza deep dive where the the the students get in bands and do a rock concert at the end of their deep dive at the end of the two weeks.

And they're just these really intensive ways to get completely deep into the into the subject over that two weeks. You come back to your class and you're you're with the same group of people working on the same thing. This there's so many cool opportunities like that. There's also, and this is what I've done every one of my deep dives, personal passion projects. And a personal passion project is basically a a self-guided deep dive where as long as you have a proposal and a clear plan for what you're gonna do every day of that two weeks.

You submit it to the principals, and if it gets approved, you can pretty much do that your own self-guided project over that time. And so what I've always done is made made dioramas, miniature models. It's such a niche thing. I don't even know like how I got into it. I guess it was on during COVID times. I think on YouTube, I saw some really cool, really cool people making dioramas. And I thought, I just want to make these miniature things. This is so cool. But for all of my deep dives, I've made a diorama and

With that two weeks, that's pretty much the only way I think I would have been able to do those. ⁓ Because without that, I mean, it would have been at home ⁓ or on some small bit of time, like after school or something. It just, it's very hard. But if you have that that two weeks of just dedicated time, you can get deep into it. And so I feel like I've really improved my skills at building dioramas and models through these deep dives. And it's really ⁓ given me this thing that I can really take pride in.

Dylan (00:13:42)
So your dioramas have they have an angle. They're not just, ⁓ it's not just, you know, a town where a train is going through it. It's not the Alps. It's not some idealistic ⁓ diorama that you've created. You have a message that you're definitely trying to bring through these dioramas. So where did that come from? How did you bring in your sort of passion for social justice ⁓ and dioramas and and meld them together in these deep dives? Was that something that was like, did somebody tell you to do that? Did you come up with it on your own?

Finny (00:14:11)
Yeah, yeah. I don't even know. Yeah, they're often not so idealistic there. They're really ⁓ I've I've I've always been passionate about social justice and I feel like if I can do whatever I can to ⁓ make some change in the world that's positive, that would be my my absolute goal. And so I thought, I'm gonna try to make a diorama for this deep dive. And this was back in grade nine. I saw this on YouTube during COVID. I'm gonna try to make a miniature thing. And then I was like,

What am I gonna do though? I have no context. I gotta do something. And I realized, you know, I don't I why why don't I make it some ⁓ something that I really care about? And why don't I put a social justice message in this weird 3D artwork thing that medium that is rarely used for that type of thing? Why don't I put a social justice message in that? Because people are gonna look at this and I wanna I wanna share that message with people. I want them to look at the the details and think, this is.

A really cool, you know, little miniature scene, look at all the small things, but then sort of think, but what is this, what is this about? Why, why is all the like, why is it like that? And I can explain on in my first deep dive, what I decided on doing was I was really I'd been seeing a lot of and kind of having a sadness about people being on their phones and kind of the age of the internet. And so I well well, specifically phones, so I made this, it was a rundown city street ⁓ and

But there's all these people that are walking down the street, but they're all they have these little blue LEDs that light up in their hands, and it's that they're they're on their phones and they're they're not looking at the world around them. And I wanted to kind of share that this sort of juxtaposition with the I mean, they're run-down buildings, but it's also beautiful. There's a tree growing up, which these people could be looking at, but instead they're walking with their smartphone. I wanted to kind of show that in a in a in a miniature way. And I mean, I've done other other dioramas as well. I've also done that same year.

I did a diorama about forest fires and it was really cool, like the technical aspect you get to build a a ⁓

Dylan (00:16:11)
I've only seen pictures of that one, but the the ability to create fire out of what was the material? It was

Finny (00:16:18)
like it was like LEDs. There was LEDs and then there was like stuffing, like stuffing. Okay stuffing. And then it was airbrushed to be like orange and red. And that was a really cool thing as well. But then it was like juxtaposed because it was next to a highway. And then cars was such like a big cause of the the climate crisis. And so this was juxtaposition between the forest fire and these animals fleeing to fire and then this highway.

Dylan (00:16:41)
And I mean, the thing that I was drawn to is obviously the you've been working on these for quite a while and your technical expertise has definitely increased. But I think that's the thing that brings people into viewing them is that you see this thing from across the room and you're like, wow, look at the detail in this thing. And so you sit and you spend time with it and you're looking at okay, the dilapidated building, like all the you know, the walls have cracks in them, or there's stuff growing up the side. And what I loved about

Specifically that one is that you don't necessarily notice that the people are ignoring the space that they're in right away until you sort of are inspecting all the details. And then the details sort of like reveal themselves to you, and you're like, wait, that person down there is paying less attention in the diorama than I am to the whole scene. ⁓ And ⁓ yeah, it was ⁓ I love that sort of way of kind of like pulling people in with your. ⁓

With the technical expertise and then showing them this message of, hey, if you're gonna sit here and view this work, you may as well absorb the message that I'm trying to tell you as well. Yeah. So I thought that that was like a really cool, I would say that's a very skillful way of creating something to put in front of people, like as a as a physical thing to put in front of people. What was the experience for you to spend this time, every single deep dive, making something that's this detailed?

Challenging yourself, coming up with these new ideas, and then ⁓ you've told me this, presenting to the people that you're showing it to at the end of every one of these deep dives. So there's a there's a an exhibition of learning that happens at the end of these deep dives. What was the what was the experience of putting this in front of people and watching them ⁓ basically have the experience that I did ⁓ when you're looking at these these dioramas?

Finny (00:18:27)
Yeah, it was it's such an incredible thing about Imagine High, that that that idea of the exhibition of learning. Because after the deep dives, there is this time where everyone shows their work. And ⁓ it was really incredible for me because I would I I put my diorama out on the like on a on a display bench thing. And I I would just sort of like stand back. No one knew that it was me necessarily that made it. I mean, I had my name on it, but I would just watch people as they would sort of

go up and look at it. And I I kind of feel like people can take whatever they want from it. And I I just want to I I I just put it out there for people to enjoy. I'm not trying to force any message, but if they want to, you know, if they're gonna look at it and I just get to see their face and they're like, they think this is so cool. And then yeah, they they come and talk to me and they think that the message is so cool as well. And ⁓ or they or they want to just ask me questions about it. It was really so honoring to have people, ⁓ you know, talking to me about that. I didn't, I didn't really expect

expect that I kinda just left it there for people to see. But it it whenever I think and this is really good for students to have an experience like this, whenever that you get to exhibit your work for other people to see, it's it's validating and it's but it's also it's a really good motivator for for people to do ⁓ work that they they feel proud of and they feel can have you know have have a bearing on maybe provide some impact for someone. They feel that they are their project that they're doing during this two weeks is going to be seen by someone.

Maybe they did a whole bunch of research about some ⁓ really cool thing and they share that and they know that people are gonna walk through this classroom and they're gonna see on the walls all the displays of things. And it's a it's really, ⁓ really fun for students as well. They get to the students as well, they get to walk through and see all the other people's work. I've been so inspired by the things that other people do. It's in it's incredible. People make there was one deep dive, people did a whole mural on the wall.

Upstairs and that's just been there ever since. And these people got to have an impact on a school like that where they they painted something that's gonna be there forever. ⁓ And people have done performing arts things, concerts and ⁓ Broadway choreography. They they did this really cool, I think it was a whole bunch of Disney musicals all together, or I don't know if they were Disney, but a whole bunch of musicals all together, and they were just a really cool thing to watch. People are really in their element, I feel like, and being able to

Finny (00:20:53)
show it to other people just makes it kind of raises the stakes, but makes it so so glorious when you finally get to the end of that deep dive and get to show everyone your

Dylan (00:21:04)
Your work. And and because you're doing it twice a year, I can imagine that you're you're always thinking about it. Every school year, you're like, what am I doing for the exhibition this year? I have an audience that needs to see some of this. What is the experience like for you as a peer group with your, with your with other what is it like with your peers at school? Do you talk about deep dives? Is it is it something that happens naturally? Are you told about it by your teachers? ⁓

How integrated is it to your daily life, I guess, I'd imagine hi.

Finny (00:21:35)
I mean, yeah, it it does completely change the environment when the deep dives happen. And then, but I don't know, beforehand, people are they're caught up with their their their other classes, but as soon as it comes up, people are they're like, what are you gonna do for deep dives? Everyone kind of knows that you know the selection comes out beforehand, you have to choose on this sort of surveys what what class you wanna do or what deep dive you wanna do. And everyone asks everyone what they're doing. And there's great discussion about this. Is this one gonna run? Maybe it doesn't have enough people.

Maybe it has too many people. Maybe I'm not going to get in. What are what are we going to do? And so yeah, this it it really changes the whole environment. Bit of nervous excitement. I I think my principal said said it best whenever she said that during deep dives, the environment completely changes. People are so ⁓ relaxed in the halls. You can just sense the whole. I mean, they're in different classrooms and they're doing different things all across the school. And so, you know, people are just smiling and

Dylan (00:22:10)
Nervous excitement.

Finny (00:22:31)
generally happy with their day. Yeah. They get to do something they want.

Dylan (00:22:34)
school feel more like a workshop than it does like a like regimented kind of classroom?

Finny (00:22:40)
Feeling yeah, definitely. I think that's that's the feeling.

Dylan (00:22:43)
Okay. The other thing that I'm curious about is the exhibition of learning is a public event. It's open to anybody who wants to come. The reason that we found out, like the classmate team found out about this, is because we knew about another school, High Tech High, down in California. And Imagine High is based on that sort of structure. ⁓ And we were sort of what's the word I'm looking for? We were excited that a school close to us ⁓ in the lower mainland was doing something similar to that. And so

Some people on our team went out and visited one of the learning exhibitions of learning. And we were, I think the most shocking thing for us was that there was almost no teachers to talk to. We were, we were ⁓ expecting to get some information about this school, like talk to the principal, talk to all the teachers. And it was hard to find teachers because it was mostly run by the students. ⁓ And we learned a lot more about the school from ⁓ students like you than any of the, you know, teachers who may have been there to speak about their.

teaching experience when realistically this was a time to be ex exhibiting the work that you and your peers were were working on. And so I'm curious, did you have or what experiences have you had of people from the public coming in who maybe you didn't expect to be there?

Finny (00:23:58)
Yeah. The mayor came once. The mayor. That was that was really cool. And he just walked through the whole exhibition. And I mean, I didn't talk to him personally, but it looked like he was having a great time. People like the school trustees, school board people come out, and that's also really cool. I know they they they see the cool the school as a really cool place because it's creating all this work and you know it's on display for the public. I don't even know who's seen all this stuff. It's it is completely open to the public.

Dylan (00:24:24)
Is there like a like a do you feel more integrated into your community because the school is kind of like this give and receive where you're inviting people in? ⁓

Finny (00:24:31)
Yeah, I feel like it brings students into ⁓ again that word, the real world. But it's it's if people are, ⁓ you know, doing classes and doing projects about things that that that have some sort of connection to ⁓ not just, you're in high school now, but you know, we're part of a community and we're doing this learning and this research that's gonna be seen by our community, we're like active members are of our community. So it does feel like real world learning. And I feel like real world learning is how.

students care about things because they want to learn about things that are gonna that do mean something and isn't just for some test somewhere. If they're making a project that's going to be seen by people, they're gonna put so much work into that, I think, than than if they were just doing it for, you know, a test or something. And ⁓ students think it's really cool, of course. They even the parents, I guess that's one of the big things is getting they get to show all their work to their parents. And it's not just like a parent-teacher conference just about the kid. It's about all the people in the community

Welcoming all the parents into the space. And I think that's the really crucial thing for schools, is we need to be getting more integrated with the community. Because why does it need to be this separate black box? Nobody sees in, nobody sees out. You send your kid off to school at eight in the morning, they come home, maybe they tell you about it, maybe they don't. But it should be, it should be integrated into the community because ⁓ it's a school is part of the community. Everyone around them, whether or not they're a parent or they are somebody that just lives near the school, should be able to see what.

the younger generate the the students are putting on. Yeah. ⁓

Dylan (00:26:01)
And that's where it feels like that's where all the, you know, that's where you all these new ideas are coming from, is coming from the kids in the school who hopefully when they stay in their community and they bring those ideas out into the community, it's not like the first time that they're interfacing with all these people that they've never met before. Yeah. Hopefully there's that connection there. Okay. So you're circling around this idea of of student agency and having sort of some sort of voice and and choice about what you're learning ⁓ in school. So I'm gonna kind of

Rewind a couple steps here. At the end of June, ⁓ the beginning of July, you participated in the Deeper Learning Conference, which was held by Imagine High. ⁓ And the Deeper Learning Conference, for those who haven't heard about it, ⁓ is a three-day conference circles around these ideas of interdisciplinary teaching, student-centered experiences, and student agency. And ⁓ some more of what you're talking about with these authentic sort of real life experiences. ⁓ Before I get into what you let.

One of the things that I really loved about this conference is that ⁓ in all of the sessions that I per took part in, there was a student. There was somebody from the school. And they weren't there just to sort of like host or volunteer or bring food or whatever it was. They were participating. We were participating alongside some of the students that were at Imagine High. And I thought that was absolutely ⁓ amazing because it gave ⁓ every session this different perspective of okay, we have educators who are talking about this idea, but we also have

Students, we have administrators, educational leaders, people who kind of are working outside of education that are interested in it, consultants. There was this mix of people who are all talking about these ideas about authentic learning and collaboration. And it was especially eye-opening to me to include students. It just seemed so obvious. But experiencing it was so much, ⁓ it was just so great. I don't know what else to say about it. What was your experience like?

Being a participant at deeper learning.

Finny (00:28:01)
Yeah, no, it's I also felt that. I was going into this, you know, thinking, I'm gonna do some pres presentation here. I'm gonna be, you know, ⁓ kind of separated from the people. I'm gonna be this

Dylan (00:28:13)
Whatever being invited in by the teachers to like

Finny (00:28:15)
But it was incredible. It was so like even okay, my brother, he's he was just in grade nine for deeper learning, but he was volunteering in that at that conference. And he, you know, he thought he was going in there just to, you know, get drinks for the presenters, whatever, these fancy high-up people. But no, everyone, every student volunteer there, every student that was presenting there, every every person there, no matter what their role is, whether it be a presenter, whether it be a participant, got to ⁓ really partake in these workshops. And

So my brother Frankie, we we actually both had the same workshop together with Ron Berger, ⁓ really cool ⁓ educational speaker. And he was just as much a participant as any of these other like principals and educational leaders. And it felt so the, you know, this I feel like someone's just like a class divide in education a little bit. The principals, you know, maybe they have their their clique, the teachers maybe have their clique, but it was really.

All those barriers were broken down during this conference because there was just so many people from all different areas of education coming together with all different experiences and things to contribute. And I think there was this dinner that I was I was sitting at a table and talking to people about that. And they were like, Yeah, we're ta all these people, all these principals here, we're teachers, we're having a great time. And it's like all everyone's on equal footing here. It's just this really ⁓ really wonderful experience. I

I g I I really enjoyed the conference, not just d doing the the presenting, but getting to just learn with everyone else. I felt like, I'm back in almost grade nine again, so kind of out of my everything surrounding me is so new and cool. But it's like just learning for three days and just kind of letting go. I mean, not fully letting go because my the thing that I had to present was on the last day. So that was kind of hanging over me. But but it was really a really great experience.

Dylan (00:30:06)
I read something recently about honoring learners as accomplished education consumers ⁓ and sort of shaping your idea of somebody who's in grade 12 or in high school as someone who has someone who is a veteran at education consumption consumption because they've been doing it for 10 years. They've been doing it for 12 years. Their job right now ⁓ is learning. So we should be honoring students as experts in learning. And I felt like

the deeper learning conference really did that because it brought students into these spaces where traditionally, like you said, it's maybe just the teachers who are talking about these concepts. I mean, you brought up Ron Berger. I think a lot of people showed up because they wanted to hear from Ron Berger ⁓ and you got to participate in one of these workshops with with him as a, would you say as like an equal? I don't know.

Finny (00:30:52)
Yeah, I mean, it it does feel like it's ⁓ even though he's this really high up guy, he we were all just in this together. It was it was really incredible. I got to talk to him about about my my dioramas and he was he thought they were really cool and I was so he was talking about, yeah, just you know, he one of his big things that he talked about is student work and how there should be more student work and students kind of involved in ⁓ students having to

I gotta I don't I've gotta synthesize Ron Burger's whole thing. I don't know if I'm

Dylan (00:31:22)
His whole thing is making beautiful work, right? He wants he wants students to create something that's worth showing and doing drafts and getting feedback. That's kind of his whole thing.

Finny (00:31:32)
Yeah. No, and I I got to see him. He was just in the in the audience a lot of the time for these different different presentations and stuff. And it is really cool to see all these people on equal footing.

Dylan (00:31:42)
Let's switch gears a bit and talk about your presentation that you gave because you did two things. You did a you did a workshop, which was just an hour-long workshop. I thought it could have been longer. I was lucky to be a participant in it. And I was sitting there at the end going, man, this could have been a deep dive. ⁓ The deep dives were like four hours. They were the day before. ⁓ And then this was the workshop the following day. But then you also did a wrap-up sort of keynote speech. You and and Carter was the other student that you two had.

Both had a speech and then you did a workshop together. So your workshop was about student agency. ⁓ And I want you to maybe just tell me a little bit about ⁓ how you see student agency because I feel like you sit in a very ⁓ unique spot where you experienced a school that really, I guess, cherished that or sort of stoked the flame of student agency. But you're also going into ⁓ university this fall where you're going to become a teacher. And so you have ⁓

I feel like you sit in the middle of this Venn diagram where student agency might be like really important. So how do you see student agency from a personal perspective and for other learners?

Finny (00:32:48)
⁓ I I see student agency as kind of the way to ⁓ really engage students. I think if people are able to have agency in their learning and control over what they're learning, they're gonna put they're gonna care about it so much more. ⁓ And ⁓ they're gonna be able to do things that they would never have been able to do if they were doing some really mandated, strict type of project where they don't have that choice in what they want to do. And ⁓ one of the

I don't know if it's okay if I talk about the specific project that that workshop was kind of about was student agency in a very very direct way was this. I kind of we we we did the workshop and we led the the participants through the same project, but the project was in social justice class back in grade 11. I we did the teachers gave us a project where it was a very broad prompt simply to create an initiative or a project that would make the school community a better place.

It could also be the other broader community as well. And that's that's another project. But it was this this completely just out of the blue, broad prompt, make the school a better place somehow. You have you have many weeks to do this. You can interpret it how you will. And then so then the the kind of steps they took to do that were. And it's these are very specific steps, but they they seemed I think they really helped it go smoothly was they, I mean, we were at our table groups and they were they were kind of random table groups, but they gave us these

Dylan (00:33:58)
Interpret it how you

Finny (00:34:13)
brainstorming papers and you had to just throw out whatever ideas for problems that you saw in the school and possible initiatives to go with them. So and the the idea was to not be super perfectionist about these initiatives, just throw all the stuff out there. So some of the ideas were creating a music lending library, painting murals in the bathroom, ⁓ a school newspaper club, a all ⁓ all kinds of really cool initiatives that people wanted to do. a interviews with grade nines and grade 12s and make it into a video so that it would be

Like bridging the gap between them. And all of these ideas then, because what the teachers didn't want to happen was for students to feel that they were stuck to the idea that they wrote down or someone at their table group wrote down. And so what they ended up doing was they put all of these papers that had that these init paper initiatives on the walls. And they all all have a semi-formed plan. what are you gonna do on day one? What's some steps, who you need to contact, whatever. These sort of fleshed out initiatives on the walls. And then all the students had to stand up and

Stand by the thing that they were most passionate about. Yeah. And so ⁓ it didn't have to be the one that they wrote at all. And ⁓ what ended up happening though was everyone went to their corner of the room and it ended up being me and two other people, my friend and I. We were standing in the center of the room. Everyone was staring at us from the four corners, or many more than four, all the different corners of the room with their different respective initiatives, wondering how long is it gonna be before these people decide what they're gonna do and we can get on with the class.

Dylan (00:35:15)
And it didn't have to be the one that they wrote.

Finny (00:35:41)
And then there was that one initiative on the wall, the the newspaper, school newspaper initiative. ⁓ And so then we had a hard time deciding, but me and my friend and this and another student decided to go and do that initiative. And from then on we were the newspaper club.

Dylan (00:35:57)
And that lasted longer than just your

Finny (00:35:58)
That lasted longer than just the that yeah, that grade grade eleven class we were we we actually so we had time in that class to do the newspaper club initiative, but then we loved it so much that we continued on. And so all through the year before last year and last year we did we published a newspaper three times a year. So we had it was more of a magazine actually, but we had student article submissions. And this is another way that students can kind of share their work and we really wanted to honor that there is so much beautiful work students can

Publish it in this little newspaper that we have. And then we also had teacher interviews and we would ask them questions like, How long would you survive the zombie apocalypse? But also, what's the most important book you've ever read? Or most importantly, are there more wheels or doors in the world? Which it's a whole other podcast. But we would ask them questions like that. And it was really fun to, yeah, well, we'd have to transcribe the interviews. That was very hard. But then we'd get it in the newspaper and have a little section and then

Dylan (00:36:42)
Just that's a whole other

Finny (00:36:55)
That would kind of bridge the gap, I think, between students and teachers to get to see their teachers answering these silly questions, but then also important questions too. And it was just such a lovely experience. We ended up growing into a club. So we had at first we only had two or three people, but then we had 10 people, I think, last year. And they would all come to our meetings on Wednesdays at lunch and we'd discuss what we wanted to do.

The next yeah, the next issue. And that was really an incredible experience, kind of getting to be one of the editors of that. I felt that that's kind of like agency for students in in in action. Like ⁓ the students that got to be part of that club had we had kind of had complete control over what this newspaper was going to be. And this had come out of a class project, which you usually maybe you have a club or whatever, but this actually ⁓ probably wouldn't have happened unless our teachers had said, you know, go off, go forth and make this make a project you want to do.

And so then we got to be this group of students making something that we were so proud of. And we we also printed them off. We did big, huge printing runs of the school printer that teachers hated us. We no, they they were okay, but we printing and processing and process for half an hour. Yeah. No, more than half an hour, like an hour that it would take to print off all these volumes of the the newspaper. And then actually we'd have them often ready for the exhibition so people could take a copy and see kind of what.

What what was going on in the school?

Dylan (00:38:20)
So this project is what inspired you to lead the same project basically for the educators and the other students that were at deeper learning. And so from my perspective, I was sitting there going, great, we're gonna come up with a social justice issue ⁓ that we're gonna address with a project. And you led us through this exact same process. So we did some brainstorming at our table groups, and then we got some big papers and wrote it out and put them on the wall. And we only got to the point where we were like voting on what.

We wanted to work on, but I could feel the momentum building. Even in in just that one hour, we went from no ideas to having five ideas on the wall ⁓ and two or three very vocal groups explaining why their issue needed to be addressed. Address it.

Finny (00:39:05)
Yeah, I know it was

It was so incredible. I that was kind of my first experience being ⁓ like at the front of a classroom doing, I don't know, sort of a teacher role, but for these people that are so much more qualified than me. And people were so incredible. They they they did the workshop themselves, basically. We we gave them these prompts and the specific structure of how to make the projects. But people even you were coming up with some really cool ideas. Everyone was coming up with these really interesting ideas. And I think whenever you give people the idea to just

You know, talk about problems like real world problems in your community. It's often kind of taboo to talk about. People don't want to go there. But when when the when the juices start flowing and people are talking, you realize we're all kind of on the same page. These are all big problems and we we want to do something about them. All it takes is we just need to get together a little group and make some initiative like that. So there was this, I remember it was really cool. Someone had come up with a anti-door dash club and they were gonna be making home cooked food, healthy food.

And I don't know, he said he wanted to do it, so maybe he's I don't know, I don't know, I gotta get an update but

Dylan (00:40:09)
⁓ I I came up with the branding for that, which anti-door dash door dash club. But it was built on another idea at our table, which was teaching people how to cook. Yeah. So ⁓ Yeah, I was just thinking like if if we had a cooking club where people could come and learn how to cook with the foods that are available to them, then maybe we wouldn't need to be DoorDashing ⁓ as often. So the the name was just sort of like hooking on to something we're all familiar with, which is DoorDash and being like

Finny (00:40:19)
About that more.

Dylan (00:40:37)
No, we're we're the anti-DoorDash club. We're gonna be cooking instead of delivering and ordering like fast food and stuff like that. ⁓ Yeah. I thought it was it was fun. That was part of the the feeling that I have of or the feeling that I had in the class of this needs to happen. Like we need to get to the next step. ⁓ But it was an interesting experience as the, you know, on the person ⁓ on the learner side talking to my group and us all sort of figuring out that, you know, food insecurity was like a big topic that we were talking about.

And it moved into ⁓ gardening. And then somebody who's had experience with gardening was like, that's not really a great way to feed yourself because you like it takes a lot of effort to garden in your backyard. And if you don't have the space, then you know. So why don't we move to cooking? Cause like I feel like a lot of people don't know how to cook the fools the foods that they want to eat. And so that's where that idea came from. ⁓ And j just that it was like a 10 minute conversation. ⁓ But the, like you said, the juices got flowing so quickly. ⁓

Finny (00:41:33)
Yeah. It was like I wish we had had so much more time for that because we had to cut these people off. I mean, I guess this is the experience of being a teacher, but running out of time when people are coming up with these such incredible ideas. If we had had two weeks to do that project, I'm sure these things would have been ⁓ flying off the ground. And that's what you can have in a classroom. You can have that time to do that. And just seeing from it was like like ten to thirty minutes or something that people had to do these thinking about things. And it really, yeah. Yeah.

Dylan (00:42:02)
So you have this, you I feel like this maybe you told me that this was your first time facilitating a group like this. And so ⁓ I'm seeing this as sort of like a transition period for you where you're moving from someone who experienced this as a learner and then you tried to facilitate it for a group of people who were like ready to do this and you saw how it looked like how it looked from the other side. What did you learn about being at the front of the room?

Finny (00:42:26)
Well, for one thing, you it's very hard to write on a whiteboard. That's ⁓ that's ⁓ was the first thing I saw. ⁓ I we're gonna have to write down ⁓ mind web of all the problems in our community. Someone's gotta do this. Me or Carter, I'll write on I'll try to write on the whiteboard. It's so hard.

Dylan (00:42:43)
Yeah in front of an audience too, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Finny (00:42:45)
But you'll get better. Yeah, it was an incredible experience. That's that's why I want to be a teacher to see people doing things that they're passionate about. And, you know, it's inspiring for me to see people learning like this. And yeah, I I would love to make that my everyday job. ⁓

Dylan (00:43:01)
What are you most excited about when you go back to school? So you're going to University of Fraser Valley ⁓ and you've signed up for their teaching pro

Finny (00:43:06)
Yes.

program. Yeah, well, they're teaching program after a bachelor's degree. So I'm actually doing I'm I am really passionate about social justice and social studies in general. So I'm doing a lot of sociology and history courses and I really wanna, yeah, kind of have a social justice lens on those things. And then after that, then I'll get my teaching certificate and do that program. And I'm I'm really excited for right now the history and sociology part of that. That's really up and close and personal, coming up right now and just in September. But after that I'm gonna be

It's gonna be really fun to do the teaching program and I'm just excited all around.

Dylan (00:43:43)
In a previous conversation, we had talked about how you went to middle school to run some clubs or you had been talking with like younger students.

Finny (00:43:52)
Yeah, yeah. That was the that was one of the experiences that has made me really want to be a teacher. I I got a a chance to ⁓ actually work as a sort of after school, I don't know what the word is, after school coach sort of for with another student for these middle schoolers at the school right next to our school, A.D. Rundel. And it was really we were working with these grade six, seven, and eights and basically just kind of supervising them while they can do these fun games. They we had Uno and

We played cards. They love playing like actual cards. Not even a we we got out to card decks. We were playing this game called Cheat. It was ⁓ it was really fun. And they had such a great time. But it was like working with students is ⁓ they say the most crazy things, but it's also the most they make you have so much hope for humanity because they're just in their own little world of being in grade six and seven or whatever. And they're they're all they're thinking about is, you know, what they're gonna do after school. And it's so

kind of refreshing after being in, you know, the homework and the kind of struggles of high school. But I had a really great time ⁓ teaching younger kids there as well. And I think when I'm a teacher, I want to do maybe teaching high school. But it was also really fun to see those younger kids and work with them just, you know, playing games every Wednesday after school and yeah, working with another student. And we've kind of got to be like co-teachers for that. That was also a great opportunity. do we let them do this? Do we let them

Whatever. The they're they're sometimes quite unruly ⁓

Dylan (00:45:21)
I was gonna ask, I hope that that experience it sounds like it it energized you. It didn't it didn't deplete you. So that's a that's a good thing. That's a way that you know that you're gonna be happy in in the future teaching teaching more kids. Yeah.

Finny (00:45:33)
Some of it feels ⁓ depleting whenever they're running down the halls, whenever it's after school, people are having meetings. But we were able to mostly get them sort of under control. But I have so much respect for for middle school teachers, the utmost respect for the work they do. Not only keep them in control, but teach them things on top of that. ⁓

Dylan (00:45:52)
An extra skill there, right? I have a couple last questions for you. I'm curious how you feel about student agency and creativity, because it feels to me ⁓ that when people are feeling creative, they have a lot of agency over what they're what they're learning. There's like a draw. I need the if I want to make something, I need to learn how to make that thing. So do you see like a connection there between ⁓ maybe your creative work, like when you're creating dioramas and this idea of agency in your learning?

Finny (00:46:22)
Yeah. I I mean, okay. I feel like the people that chose to come to Imagine High, it's a school of choice. So not by catchment, it's you can sign up and you will get into the school. The people that choose to come there want to come there because maybe they're interested in it's called an arts and technology school. So they think they're gonna, you know, they're coming there because there's all these art classes. But really the reason that it works so well is because they have that agency and then they can do the most creative things with that agency. And that's I think.

The root of it. It's not just having art classes or technology classes or, you know, specific things, but giving people that agency. And then that gives them the creative freedom. I would never have been able to do the dioramas that I was able to do without Imagine High. I gotta be so thankful for that because it's become a part of who I am now. And yeah, I was able to just go into this throughout my whole middle school time. I always thought, I wanna be, I wanna be doing.

Creative projects and I want to be working on something for a long time and do it sort of my own way. And I thought, you know, maybe there'll be more chances to do this in high school. But when I found Imagine High, it was the the most perfect thing for me. ⁓ And yeah, I really want that experience for other students. I want them to feel what it feels like to ⁓ be able to do something, you know, and design it themselves, their own experience.

Dylan (00:47:40)
Yeah. I think that's great. I mean, I feel like creativity is this sort of people say that they're either creative or they're not. But it to me, it just sort of feels like it's a mode, right? It's like you can be creative if the environment around you is helping you do that. And it sounds like your experience was you were in a place where that was that was ⁓ important and it was brought to the surface and you sort of grabbed onto it.

And you're like, I'm gonna do this thing now because it's around me and and I can I have the agency to basically tackle whatever I wanted to tackle.

Finny (00:48:13)
And I always say this, I feel like everyone is an artist and no matter what they do. I always like to honor my mom because she does she's really good at actually conversations, I feel like, and having conversations with just anyone on the bus or the art lifting stuff. It's an art form. And I feel like no matter how the students are coming into Imagine High, their form of creativity and artistry will be honored ⁓ and honored and accepted at that school.

Dylan (00:48:37)
That's really great. I love hearing that. My last question for you, and this might be more of a ⁓ recommendation, is there anything that you're like consuming, like a book or a movie or anything that you're consuming right now that's really inspiring you?

Finny (00:48:53)
Yeah, I want to talk about. I just finished this book yesterday. We listened to it as an audiobook with me and my brother, but Babel by R. F. Quang. ⁓

Dylan (00:49:02)
Ooh, I haven't read it. I've I started her s ⁓ her Catabasis, which is another book. But tell me tell me about

Finny (00:49:07)
By her. Yes. Babel. Yeah, Babel is a really it's a really incredible book. I mean, it's about colonization and the British British Empire. So like really heavy stuff, but and and translation and and language and I mean it's not related to sort of any of what we've been talking about necessarily, but it's really as a social justice a book to read about social justice. And it's a it's such a great read. I feel yeah, that was we got to finish it yesterday and I definitely recommend that book. It

Dylan (00:49:35)
She's such a decorative writer. It feels like she uses words in a very like poetic way. And I always find myself kind of getting caught up in the words and then going back and being like, wait, that means something. I need to reread that ⁓ a bunch of times. ⁓ Yeah, that's great. That's a great recommendation. I should go back and and pick up that one as well. Catabasis is great too. I've only gotten about halfway through, but it's a it's about two magicians who'd have to travel to the underworld to save ⁓ a ⁓ magical professor of theirs.

And so they're going through the levels of hell. ⁓ Yeah. So it's it's quite, it's quite it's quite good. Thank you for this incredible conversation, Finny. This has been great. ⁓ I am going to link to some of the resources that we're talking about, obviously to the school Imagine High. We'll put that in our in our show notes. Some of your recommendations to read Babel, like we just talked about. I'm also wondering, can we put some of your dioramas, like pictures of your dioramas in the show notes? Cause I would love people to be able to experience that, even if they don't get to see it up up in person.

I think photos definitely do they get you about sixty percent there.

Finny (00:50:39)
Yeah. Yeah, I'd love to share some photos.

Dylan (00:50:40)
Great. Okay. Again, like I said, thank you for being on the podcast. And I'm so happy that we got to have this conversation. And I really hope that our listeners kind of feel the excitement that ⁓ you have shared around being an excited learner that has agency, being creative ⁓ and basically just guiding your own learning.

Finny (00:51:00)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's great. This was such an incredible conversation. I my first experience on a podcast, ⁓ so much more fun than I could have ever imagined. And yeah, it was so great to talk to you.

Dylan (00:51:10)
Okay, awesome. Thank you. I'll take that as a ⁓ the best review of the podcast so far. ⁓ You can find Imagine This on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcatcher. ⁓ Don't forget to follow the show so you'll get new episodes delivered right to you. And turn on notifications if you want to know the exact moment a new episode is live. ⁓ If you like this episode, you can let us know by leaving a rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. That's up to you.

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