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Leaders of the Ledger from CPA Practice Advisor in partnership with Rightworks spotlights the people and ideas shaping the future of the accounting profession.
Each episode host Rob Brown interviews influential firm leaders, innovators and rising stars to uncover how they are tackling today’s biggest challenges whether it is client advisory services, AI and technology, talent strategy or firm growth through M&A.
Built on CPA Practice Advisor’s trusted recognition lists like the 40 Under 40 Influencers in Accounting and other collections of prominent professionals, this show goes beyond the headlines to share practical insights, personal stories and proven strategies from those moving the profession forward.
If you are a firm owner, leader or ambitious professional who wants to stay ahead of the curve Leaders of the Ledger is your inside track to the conversations and connections that matter most in accounting.
Subscribe now to hear from the voices redefining what it means to lead in the profession.
Speaker 2 (00:00.056)
the game.
for Generation Z, for millennials, and really being that voice trying to bring new people into the profession. And almost no one wants to do accounting. The career fairs are more empty versus beforehand, they were the most popular career fair to try to get into. do you really think started with COVID? I think that having this idea of remote work and people realize that they don't have to be in the office and do all these hours and they can develop online businesses or side hustles that really influence that. On one hand, that's so exciting because there's this entrepreneurial spirit.
I really
Speaker 2 (00:37.816)
virus. Good day.
And thank you Rob for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:46.99)
This is Rob Brown here, host of your Leaders of the Ledger podcast on behalf of CPA Practice Advisor. We are international with this brand new show and we are doing a deep dive into the lives of influencers that are shaping the accounting profession. We're shining a light on what they're doing, telling a little bit about their journey. And we're starting with a list that's been identified of the influencers under 40. So we're looking at the next generation, if you like.
Because accounting, let's face it, it is an old person's game. 75 % of CPAs are at our close to retirement age. So there's a new wave, a new generation coming in that are really acting as a force for good. I'm delighted to have with me today, all the way from San Francisco, Rachel Faris. Good day, Rachel. It's a pleasure to have you on Rachel and influence. mean, how does that sit with you as a term influencer? Do you feel influenced?
Thank you, Rob, for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:32.206)
I feel like being such a young voice in accounting when the field's obviously getting older is exciting because I can be at the forefront of really pushing a lot of changes for Generation Z, for millennials, and really being that voice trying to bring new people into the profession.
big part of it because it's not wrong to say that accounting as a brand has something of an image problem. I've had heads of society say that to me. Do you sense that a little?
Oh, 100%. I mean, I look back to when I was in college and accounting was the most popular major at the business school I went to and I look back now as my sister has gone through school and almost no one wants to do accounting. The career fairs are more empty versus beforehand they were the most popular career fair to try to get into. So I've really seen a change over even the last five years and I really think this problem is honestly expediting and it's becoming worse year after year.
Let's see if we can pinpoint why that is because it has lost some of its lustre. It was very safe. It was secure. And it was the de facto career for many smart people, maybe accounting, lawyering, but it's lost some of its allure. What do you put that down to?
I think it started with COVID. I think that having this idea of remote work and people realize that they don't have to be in the office and do all these hours and they can develop online businesses or side hustles really influenced that. On one hand, that's so exciting because there's this entrepreneurial spirit and have young people wanting to do things, wanting to really pay the path for themselves. But on the other hand of things, it's become less appealing to join careers where it's very fixed. You started a lower salary, you're expected to do all these hours. You might need to be in person. So it's loss that appears.
Speaker 1 (03:03.06)
where I feel like that stability was really exciting for people back in the day. Nowadays, people don't stay at a company for 20, 30, 40 years. They like to hop around. They like to experience something new. So even if they start out at a big four accounting firm or a large accounting firm, they may only stay a few years and then pivot to something new. So not only is it an issue getting people into the profession to begin with, but it's also an issue of getting people to stay in the profession longer term.
That's extremely well put and I can relate to that. I'm an education background so I was a high school math teacher and I ended up coaching kids to pass tests which wasn't education. It became very test and exam oriented and here in the UK particularly with the most examined nation on earth and we put a pencil or pen in their hands at the age of three and four and it's not right but the game has certainly changed. To what degree do you feel, how long have you been in accounting would you say Rich?
accounting for just under a decade.
Okay, so to what degree do feel it's changed since you've been in the game?
would say I've just noticed that there's a lot new technological advances, but I don't know if necessarily the field's caught up to that. So we have things that can make our lives a lot easier and some firms are adopting these technological advances. We have AI, we have machine learning, we even have the blockchain, all these exciting things. And I feel like we're at the forefront of being able to use it, but we're at this really interesting intersection where we don't really know how to use it or partners aren't really used to using it. So you have young people trying to implement changes, but partners still want things.
Speaker 1 (04:26.318)
printed on their desk, right? And so because of that, I've really noticed this change is as people are getting older that have this younger feel to them, you're getting a slight, I guess, difference in the actual roles. At a staff level, I would say things remain relatively the same. But when you're looking at a senior manager level, I think it's a lot more to a business perspective. And I don't think a lot of P-Gong people have realized that. They think that it's just grunt work until you hit partner. But in reality, I think it has adopted a little bit more of a new face because of the fact that we have technology to lighten the load a little bit.
gonna ask you before we finish here why
Is accounting so attractive as a career choice? And maybe you can shine a light back onto why it's good. But when we look at the way the role has changed and the expectations of an accountant, I've interviewed thousands and they, back in the day, it was a historical look back at the ledger and here's what's happened. But there's so much more expected of an accountant now, even to the degree, you'll have picked this up Rachel, where during the pandemic, you are not just trusted advisors, you were counselors, you were therapists, you were psychiatrists, you were friends, you were shoulders to cry on.
You were navigating business owners through very complex situations that nobody knew what normal was. So the role has changed. The expectations have changed. Would that be fair?
would definitely say so. think it's adapted a lot more and I think accountants have taken on a different responsibility than just being the person you contact for your taxes. I feel like it has become something that everyone's focused on and especially with this emergence of more people getting into cryptocurrency, more people getting into investing, all these resources are much more easily found. There's a bigger need for understanding how to do things correctly the first time around and not just giving it up to TurboTax or H &R Block.
Speaker 2 (06:01.186)
You don't just have to be good at the regulations too and the technical stuff. You alluded to it. You've got to be technologically strong because there's so many different softwares and apps and plugins that you've got to master. Then you've got AI coming along and chat, GPT and everything else. You've then got to master that. Then you've got to master people and emotions and sales and complex conversation. So it's, the job seems more difficult than it used to be.
would agree and I think it also makes it a little scary to get into the field. I think I've really mastered the people side of things and be able to win business, right? But I would say that there's that stereotypical accountant that just knows how to do on the numbers and doesn't necessarily really have that people facing opportunity. And I think that
profession still has that stereotype of just being the accountant that's locked in the office for a few months out of the year, locked down during busy season. When in reality, I think there's a really big potential to have this personal business facing thing. And accounting is the language of business. And I remember going back into college and looking at all my examples of what I could really pick going to business school, right? And I found out.
Okay, accounting is the language of business. No matter what I do with accounting, I will always understand the back end of any single business possible. And if I have the people-facing skills to go along with it, I could really make myself a success. Whereas people used to see it as, you're an accountant, you do it because you're anti-social, because you just want to be locked in on the numbers, but I don't think it's that way anymore.
You're nearly know the stereotypes, Rachel, and calling it out, which is wonderful. Another aspect of the accounting advisor that you've had to develop over the years, and it sounds like you've got a real handle on it, is the entrepreneurial mindset, that business acumen, that commercial awareness. It's been leveled at accountants. They don't think like business owners because they aren't. You've got to get your head into the language of business. You've got to know their vocabulary. You've got to appreciate their problems and you've got to build a book of business. So you do have to think like an entrepreneur and that's not all account, is it?
Speaker 1 (07:47.086)
No, it's definitely not and I think there's places for both of them. But I think there's a huge opportunity right now for accountants who do want to build their own business, who do want to find that intersection of marketing and creating a persona for yourself and really selling yourself, not necessarily just selling your services. And I think the more people
begin to realize there's more potential out there and really you can be your own boss so easily. think it's going to become more appealing to younger people. But right now, the only obvious pipeline is going to a big four accounting firm or going to a large accounting firm and just working your way until you either enter industry or become partner. Not many people pose it as really you could work for a few years, get your experience under your belt and then start something yourself. And I think that's a really exciting pathway. think entrepreneurship and accounting, that link is unreal and more people need to understand that you want to create a life
for yourself and you want to be able to have a business that has lot of barriers to entry so it's harder for other people to join. Accounting is a great path.
Yeah, you've articulated that beautifully. talk about influence. Most accountants don't look after any particular line like they don't seek to build the personal brand. They don't put thought leadership out there. They don't concentrate on content. They don't want any kind of public persona. However, there are some that whether for selfish reasons or for the brand of the profession or to be an ambassador for the firm, they do seek that.
public awareness, they want to be visible, they want to be vocal, they've got a cause. Tell us a little bit about your story, about how you wanted to expand beyond just the role and start to share what you're doing.
Speaker 1 (09:13.326)
Definitely. So I actually have a background that originally comes from doing digital marketing. I started my own business back in high school and I paid myself all the way through college with it and ran it for a few years after. So that really kind of ignited the entrepreneurial spirit in me. So when I joined the accounting world and I worked at a big four for quite a while and decided to open my new firm, I was thinking of like, what can I really sell here? I'm obviously young. I look young, but I want to be able to sell my services in a way that really inspires people to get connected to me as a person, not necessarily just to come to me because they want to get taxes done or whatever.
it might be. So I started this journey to essentially, one, bring in new clients, two, educate new people about what accounting is really about, and I think three, I've really found that intersection of technology and accounting as well. I actually developed an education course to educate people on the tax law that I'm specialized in. So it really opens it up to more people so they don't just have to sit down with me to be able to get that type of advice and learn if they're eligible. They're able to really take this course and develop it that way. So that's kind of my main purpose for really creating a voice and trying to get influence for myself. I think
I I wanted to hit on the second point again. Really just influencing people. I mean, obviously, I'm a young person as well. I have written articles, I've even talked to Congress about...
really trying to target Generation Z and getting people involved with accounting, getting people involved with understanding how the IRS works and all these different things. I think we're at a very big lack of financial literacy in young people. And I think it's important to be a voice and not to be one of the voices that's just a bunch of misinformation because they don't have a degree or a certification backing them. I think as a CPA, it's my responsibility to give legit advice when I possibly can and really understand what young people want to hear.
come across as extremely authentic and genuine in the way you speak and the way your eyes light up when you talk about the things that excite you. people look out there and they see a whole lot of noise and a lack of authenticity and AI driven stuff and a lot of hype and bull and regurgitated stuff. tell us what your process is for putting out original stuff and really communicating your ideas.
Speaker 1 (11:10.67)
think it has to be something that comes from actual passion. You can't just do it because, you're supposed to do it, or this is the right way to go about it, right? It needs to be something that you actually feel from within. And so if I didn't believe in the work that I was actually doing, I don't think it would come off as authentic as it does right now. But not only am I just going on speaking things, I mentor students at local universities, I speak in classes, I really try to get the profession of accounting to sound really exciting. And then in my own work where I specialize in Act 60, Puerto Rico tax incentives as well, I fully believe that this program can help investors,
that are small business owners to help them save money and so because I really believe in the value of that to only help business owners but help the Puerto Rican economy as well it really helps enlighten my spirit and it gets me excited to share that with people in a way that doesn't kind of sound scummy.
Each accountant's on being more of a thought leader or giving them something to talk about. say, what burdens you? What is a cause or a crusade that you could get behind? It could be business related. It might not be, it might just be women in professions or whatever it is. So you've got to get something to get behind. Tell us a little bit about your firm, Rachel, and your goals for it, the end game.
Definitely. So I run a firm that specializes in the intersection.
of U.S. and Puerto Rico tax laws. So there's a really unique tax incentive called Act 60, where U.S. citizens can relocate down to Puerto Rico and get a 0 % tax rate on capital gains, interest and dividends, and a 4 % corporate income tax rate. So after I kind of dove into this and realized what a special opportunity it was, because it's really the only place where U.S. citizens can move, get those kind of tax benefits and not renounce their citizenship, I really wanted to bring people in that were looking to grow businesses, that wanted that competitive edge, whether it be a startup or an existing company, to really put more money
Speaker 1 (12:48.832)
back into their pockets. I've had a lot of clients that even have expedited retirement plans because they've worked with me
to able to really save more money off their taxes if they're living in a super high tax state. Obviously they have to do things right and compliance is very important. So you do want to work with a licensed CPA on that. But really where I see myself going is I have my white glove service as part of things where I work with a lot of high net worth people directly. I've also developed my education course at MaximizeWealth.com that offers those services to everyone. So I always like to say it's the 80-20 rule. 80 % of situations are the same. 20 % are a little different. For the 80 % of you that have kind of a normal business or you're just an investor, that education
is perfect and that's where I'm really looking to scale my business is making that information accessible to more people no matter the income bracket. I think we live in a world right now where it's hard to get legal or CPA counsel without dropping tens of thousands of dollars sometimes and so having it accessible for one fee and really being able to DIY it yourself that's not just through TurboTax where it's so complicated to use. I think this is a really great solution and I'm hoping to embrace the technology side of things more in the next few years.
You clearly have more hours in your day as well than the normal person. what advice would you give to the people that are, and you've had a foot in both camps, you've been employed, you've worked for a firm and now you're So what advice would you give to people that want to make the transition?
suggest, sometimes you will feel like you need to build such a big umbrella to fall back on or a big cushion in case things don't work out. I would say feel confident in yourself and start developing something while you're working at another company. Get some ideas in your head and when it's time to make the jump, you just need to full send. I think that a lot of people try to do both part-time and you end up not giving your full effort to either.
Speaker 1 (14:26.7)
When I made the decision to quit my job, it was really scary, but I fully quit it, embraced that decision, and gave 100 % effort into my company at the time to really grow it to the best idea possible. I think that another thing that people get a little scared about with entrepreneurship is the idea that, it's not going to work out or someone already had that idea.
I think if you really curate a niche beforehand and you kind of put out feelers with audiences and be like, Hey, is this something you could be interested in before you even make that jump? You'll know that there's demand for it. And so you're not just entering a market where you were starting at plan A and no one wants plan A. I think the third thing I would like to say is that it's never plan A it's never plan B. It's always a different iteration down the road. think a lot of people get stuck on their first plan. It's such a great idea. Why is no one biting? I don't know how this isn't working. And then they feel failure. I would say focus on the idea that yeah, whatever you learn from
trying to get plan A to work, you can apply to plan B. It might not be the exact firm that you in your mind created or the exact way you thought you'd get clients, but you will learn things from that that you can apply to future business ventures. So don't get defeated and don't try to kind of fit a square in a circle, right? Like you need it to be something that you're flexible with and it will adapt as you see what your audience really needs.
That's great advice, Richard, but I can just see some accountants saying, it's okay for Rachel Friar. She's her own boss. She can do her own thing. I've got to do all my billable hours. I've got a team to look after. I've got all these responsibilities. I've got a role in the firm and I won't got that security. I can't put anything alike on a LinkedIn article. I can't appear on videos and say whatever I like. I don't have that freedom. What do you say to them? Because some people do it, don't they? They're employed, but they still build a strong personal brand.
100 % and I would say one thing is to use technology to your advantage. think people talk about not having enough hours in the day. think one, using ChatGTDT, using all these different forms of AI to maybe write some content for you, right? You have ideas in your head, jot them out, write them down, have ChatGTDT process it, and then you can go through and do a review after. That'll save you from writing an article every single time. When it comes to getting on podcasts like this,
Speaker 1 (16:24.396)
I don't think there's a great alternative to just being on yourself, but I do think that there are ways that you can make this manageable. Do it before your work day. Schedule out a little bit of time. Carve out 15 minutes out of your lunch to hop on something like this, to write a quick post. I think it's totally possible to build your brand while you are working at another company. I will just caution that there are sometimes internal rules about kind of how you're marketing yourself or whether or not you could have a side hustle going at the same time. So that's the only thing I would really be careful about is if you are working at a firm that does kind of have
maybe strict independence rules or they don't allow you to have secondary employment, definitely look at that beforehand. But if you do have a company that's flexible and is okay with you doing something external, then go for it. I think that there's no harm in doing it at the end of the day.
Why should accountant CPAs have a personal brand? Rachel isn't it just good enough to be good at your job?
I so. I think that a lot of people can do similar levels of work. We're going off of laws, we're going off of regulations, right? I would say, yeah, there's slightly different ways to get to it. But as a whole, if you screen a group of 50 CPAs, you might get 50 different answers. But after that, I don't know how many different answers you're going to get, right? And so because of that, what makes it different is people want to work with you as a person. As we've developed and we've become so technologically advanced, a lot of people like the idea of having someone that they can go to for real advice. Not just CPA advice, but you know people, you're able to connect them with
Investment advisors you're able to connect them with realtors. You're able to connect them with lawyers They want someone that it feels comfortable to talk to and so if you're looking to build a business and you want that competitive edge I would argue that your competitive edge in accounting is not just your niche and it's not just what
Speaker 1 (17:54.286)
services you actually offer. It's really who you are as a person and how you can engage with people. think a really big appeal for me is just that I'm young, I'm personable, I'm social. And so a lot of the clients that are moving down to Puerto Rico are young people that want to deal with someone that isn't 70 something years old. Now, I'm sure that there's older people that want to deal with someone that they're familiar with and they like to send their receipts in person and hand them paper documents and things like that. But the reality is, is that you can find your own niche, you can build a brand for yourself. And that'll attract people that like the image that you bring and the work ethic that you
bring to work.
You're very contagious and enthusiastic when you speak. I'm hoping you'll bring out a service to take UK people to Puerto Rico. That would be wonderful. We could get away from our government. couple more questions, Rachel. What excites you most about your future and the brand of accounting generally?
I think that I'm really excited to see how account develops in the next few years. I think we're at such a pivotal point where things are going downhill. is a profession that's always going to be necessary. And so it can't just go downhill forever. I think we are at a...
point where those of us that have CPAs, those of us that are EAs can really uplift the profession and choose how we want this to be. For a really long time, it was kind of run by older people that had these old kind of statutes of how things need to be done. Now we're at a point where you really need some type of reinvigoration back into it. And so I think being at the forefront of that's so exciting. For me personally, I'm very excited to continue being a voice just for kind of Generation Z and for millennials and young people that are in the field. I want to keep speaking at universities. I want to keep bringing in high schoolers to
Speaker 1 (19:23.536)
talking in high school classrooms, getting those ideas going early on. And I really suggest that other CPAs that want to give back to their university or want to give back to their high school do something really similar. You'd be surprised at kind of where that bias of accounting actually begins. If you start at such an early level when people are picking what they want to major in or even picking where they want to go to school, you can have a really big influence on someone's life. Just talking about how your path has been so fruitful and the opportunities that accounting really allows for you.
answer. Final question, what skills or attributes do you feel accountants need to stay relevant and competitive in the next few years?
I would say flexibility, and I think it's flexibility in terms of not only interpersonal relationships, but also flexibility in terms of technology.
I think sometimes we get a pigeonholed into the way things used to be done, right? And now that we have so many options on how to do things differently and how to make our workloads a little easier, we should be able to take that with heart and realize, hey, like, I don't need to do that just myself. There are ways that I can get that done a lot easier. And it might be scary at first, right? But the reality is we really need to embrace that side of things. And I think it'll make your life so much easier. You're not going to be putting in as many hours. At very beginning, when there's a steep learning curve, definitely when you're learning how to really integrate that stuff, it's a lot of upfront work.
But after that, and if you're continuing to stay in this profession for years after, I think your workload's gonna go down a lot. And I think it's gonna be able to open up yourself to building a personal brand, to potentially looking at entrepreneurship, to exploring even just hobbies or spending more time with your friends and family. I think if we lean into that, you're going to have changes full fold across everything that's really gonna benefit your quality of life.
Speaker 2 (20:56.067)
Richard Farris, you've been an inspiration today. Thank you so much for sharing your passion and your insights, our journey on the Leaders with a Ledger podcast. We really appreciate it.
Awesome, thank you so much Rob, I really appreciate it.