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Dr. Ron Hall, professor and pastor, and Peter Englert, pastor, help you delve into 1 John. Understand the context and background while applying this practical book of the Bible to your life.
1 John - 1-5-10.mov
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Peter Englert
00:02 - 00:28
Welcome to the Reading 1st John podcast. I am here with my friend and pastor Ron Hall. In our first two episodes, we did an introduction to the book of John, and then we did 1st John 1-4, which is kind of its own introduction to the whole book. And today we're jumping right into 1 John 1, 5 to 10.
Peter Englert
00:29 - 00:39
But I think it's important, Ron, before we hit record, we were talking about what's the best way to envision this passage so that we can best understand it.
Ron Hall
00:39 - 00:53
All right. What we want to do is capture it as a courtroom. And that imagery comes in 1 John 2, verses 1 and 2. that we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous.
Ron Hall
00:54 - 01:23
The first chapter of 1 John establishes that we're sinners, that we do sin, that we're not perfect. And what do we do then to experience forgiveness? And so, he'll walk us through the process of walking in the light, what that looks like, the confession of our sin, and then knowing we have an advocate on our behalf, which is Jesus Christ. So it is a courtroom scene that is presented for us to be able to process.
Ron Hall
01:24 - 01:32
And without that courtroom scene taking place of Christ being there, we have no mediator to be able to rectify the sin that we have.
Peter Englert
01:34 - 01:52
Well, that's a good that's a good intro as as they'd say in our preaching class. So as I read this to you, think courtroom and then we're going to jump in for that picture. So first, John one five says this. This is the message we've heard from him and declare to you.
Peter Englert
01:53 - 02:15
God is light, in him there is no darkness at all. If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. But if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus, his son, purifies us from all sin. If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Peter Englert
02:16 - 02:38
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just, and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar, and His word has no place in our heart. So just a quick recap, because I feel like it's important. So we talked about there being a prologue or an intro from 1 John 1, 1 to 4.
Peter Englert
02:38 - 02:55
In 1 John 1 to 5 to 227, the theme is God is light. Then from 2.28 to 4.6, God is righteous. And then from 4.7 to 5.12, God is love. Then the epilogue is 5.13 through 21.
Peter Englert
02:56 - 03:08
So we're going to see Jesus as an advocate in our next episode. But what do you think John is trying to set up here in this first section before he talks about Jesus being our advocate?
Ron Hall
03:10 - 03:48
Well, it's important to understand, and we dealt with this in the first session, There's a group in this community of faith called cessationists, and they were making claims within this community of faith, which is probably an expanded area of the Asia Minor. So we're not talking about John overseeing one church, we are talking about multiple churches over some hundreds of miles. And they were called cessationists because they were denying the reality of sin. So John is going to give us three ifs in darkness and then three ifs in the light.
Ron Hall
03:49 - 04:22
So these people wanted to make claims that they did not sin. And in chapter 2, which we're jumping ahead, but it's framing it, they went out from us, but they really weren't of us, for if they had been of us, John said they would have continued with us. So we're going to capture that a little better in our next, you know, down the road a few sessions. So the idea is you can't deny the reality of sin, but to lay that foundation, he is going to use verse 5 about God being light.
Peter Englert
04:25 - 04:57
Yeah, and I think that that's really important because the the interplay and just there's a very logical argument. You don't have to be a Greek scholar or a pastor to see what what he's saying here. And I think in some ways, the study of sin is one of the easiest doctrines to prove. And so when we jump into first verse five, Um, it, it shouldn't be this surprised, even if you're, you know, an atheist and you're listening to this podcast, you know, there's this idea that God is light in him.
Peter Englert
04:57 - 05:11
There is no darkness. And so basically John is calling out, Hey, if you walk in the light, you're in the light. If you walk in the darkness, you're in the darkness. Um, and, and really pointing back to the cross of Jesus.
Peter Englert
05:11 - 05:12
Yeah.
Ron Hall
05:12 - 05:32
Well, in its understanding, in a sense, it's a metaphor, because the idea of light and darkness is found throughout the Gospel of John. It's a Gospel of contrast. So John is not introducing something new to his writings. In some ways, it's a continuation of the Gospel.
Ron Hall
05:33 - 05:49
But this whole imagery of light goes back into the Old Testament. So in Genesis 1, 3, God created the light. And so light is the source of hope with the Lord. It's the glory of God.
Ron Hall
05:50 - 06:07
Light in the Old Testament can be His very presence. Moses is blinded by the light of God, of God's presence. We have Jesus saying in the Gospel of John, I am the light of the world. So light is a manifestation of God's presence.
Ron Hall
06:07 - 06:37
So when John says, you know, he declares that God is light, in him there is no darkness at all. He's talking about the very character, the very nature of God, his righteousness. which leads us to Jesus, because Jesus said, if you've seen me, you've seen the Father, so therefore Jesus is a very real reflection of the Father. And Hebrews chapter 1 picks up on it, that Christ is the very reflection of the Father.
Peter Englert
06:38 - 06:59
That's really good, and I love the way that you've framed it. There's three claims. So there's verse six, if we claim that we have fellowship with him while in darkness, we're lying, we're not practicing the truth. Verse eight, you talked about if we claim to be sinless, we deceive ourselves and the truth has no place in us.
Peter Englert
07:00 - 07:29
And verse 10, if we claim that we have not sinned, we are making God out to be a liar and his word's not in us. What is the thread with those three claims? And even as you think about the context to the churches that John is writing to, I mean, the courtroom scene is very clear. This is a very clear, I'm giving you an if-then statement argument of how this theology plays out.
Ron Hall
07:30 - 08:00
Yeah. Well, we realize there's nothing new under the sun as it talks about an Ecclesiastes. And here is that living example that people were sin deniers back at the time of this being written in the first century, the end of it, and people today that will deny the reality of sin. We will even have nominal denominations that will go ahead and deny the reality of sin or try to redefine it, because we want to have an aversion to it.
Ron Hall
08:00 - 08:21
We want to feel that we're okay. So these three ifs in darkness are claims—again, these are cessationists—that they're making. They're trying to deny the reality of sin. But you can't even become a Christian without admitting you're a sinner, and that was the message of Jesus.
Ron Hall
08:21 - 08:35
Remember, repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. That was the message of John the Baptist that led the way for Jesus. repent for the kingdom of God is at hand. Well, what's there to repent of if you can't identify the reality of sin?
Ron Hall
08:36 - 09:01
We have to recognize, hey, that's a reality that we face, and we live in a world today that wants to deny sin. I'm really not all that bad. Other people are worse than I am. I used to be a prison chaplain years ago, and we were a holding center for processing people to go upstate for at least three years in New York State.
Ron Hall
09:02 - 09:14
And one of the people said to me, Rev, I'm really not that bad. I only killed one person. I know someone out in the streets of Rochester that killed 10 people. And he wanted to justify it.
Ron Hall
09:14 - 09:38
He really wasn't that bad. And isn't it something how we try to justify what's going on? And John will have nothing to do with it if you are going to claim that you have fellowship with the Lord and you are walking in darkness if you can't admit to the reality of sin within our lives. I'm not saying this to make us feel bad.
Ron Hall
09:39 - 09:48
This is God's Word, and John is a black and white person, and so he's the one who's laying it out. This making a claim of sinlessness will not cut it.
Peter Englert
09:49 - 10:38
You know, I was talking with someone about, just they were asking me about Yom Kippur and different areas just of their life, and we were having this kind of conversation about sin and imperfection, and rarely do I hear someone say that they're perfect. Um, but I think exactly what you said, they'll, this is the sin I've done, but it doesn't compare to this. And in each of these claims that you're having this conversation, um, what you're saying is you're, you're dismissing your own sin, um, at the expense of other sins. And, um, We'll talk about verse nine, which is kind of a very applicable verse with confession.
Peter Englert
10:38 - 10:56
And there's some intricacies in that. But living, living number one with comparison, my sins, not as bad as I think it is. Number one is hard. But then number two, Living just with the reality of I'm just gonna try harder.
Peter Englert
10:56 - 11:38
That's exactly what the gospel is is kind of going against and you know, I think what I've found the older that I get I Actually, I wouldn't say a sin less but the awareness of sin is um actually helps me live a better life um because you're not just as it talks about being in the light it's not as scared you're not hiding from it and i think that there's a freedom that john is inviting us towards well yes and if we're not experiencing any conviction within our lives conviction meets the cause to see of god exposing something
Ron Hall
11:39 - 12:05
then something's seriously wrong. So verse 5, let's drop back to that for a moment. If we walk in the light as he is in the light is the imagery that's coming, but you've got to establish God is light and in him is no darkness at all. So as we're in the light, God's presence, the manifestation of his work, his light is going to expose the darkness within us.
Ron Hall
12:06 - 12:23
And And if we're all honest with ourselves, we realize we have darkness within us. If there's nothing to expose, then it's as if we've already arrived. And if we're going to deny the reality of sin, then why did Jesus have to come anyways? We wouldn't need an advocate if everything was just fine.
Ron Hall
12:24 - 12:40
So the mere fact that God is light, And then we are called to walk in that light means that darkness is going to be exposed. Again, it's not to make us feel bad, but it's so that we can be in right relationship with the Lord.
Peter Englert
12:42 - 13:10
Well, and I think about the decisions that we have to make. And none of us have 100% perfect motives. So if I need to speak the truth to somebody, it's actually more helpful if I'm able to say there is a part of me that's angry. And probably there's a even a righteous part of me that's anger, angered, but then there's also an unrighteous part.
Peter Englert
13:10 - 13:32
And so I just think the practical application of this is, you know, by walking into the light, you can name the darkness in you. You're not paralyzed by fear, but you're also not. You're not just living your life with no regrets. You're really reflecting on it.
Peter Englert
13:32 - 13:35
That's what I think is the power of what John's saying. Yeah.
Ron Hall
13:37 - 13:53
But that's exposure. That's why we need to expose ourselves to the light. Jesus said that people love darkness more than they love light. So the more you're enveloped by darkness, the less you're interested in the light exposing.
Ron Hall
13:54 - 14:14
And so you're spot on with what you're saying with the journey, but we should be open to this. We should be willingly availing ourselves to say, I want God's light to shine on me. I want it to expose within me whatever is necessary so that I can be in his presence.
Peter Englert
14:15 - 14:44
Well, and as I'm reading through your notes, I keep telling people that, you know, what you said, sometimes you've said it, sometimes it's in your notes. But I think these three claims bring up in these verses, they bring up two important points. Number one, It sin is an important, but then number two, sin doesn't affect me. And what John is driving at is sin is very important, especially if you don't notice it and let the light of the gospel come in.
Peter Englert
14:45 - 14:54
But sin does affect you. And the more that you pretend like it doesn't affect you, the more it actually does affect you. Yeah.
Ron Hall
14:55 - 15:07
And it's like a cancer on the inside. And that's why we need the exposure. And Jesus dealt with this in the Gospels. The Pharisees did not want to be able to see their wrong.
Ron Hall
15:07 - 15:29
And remember the man being born blind, Jesus said to the Pharisees, because you say you can see, that you're really in darkness, you don't see. Now there's that sense of denial among religious people. that I'm really not that bad. And John comes along and says, oh, wait a minute.
Ron Hall
15:30 - 15:49
If you are going to walk in the light as he is in the light, then in his God's presence, there's going to be this exposure of things within our lives. And we have that. I mean, you want to start a conversation on something, and you have this check within you. Don't go there.
Ron Hall
15:50 - 16:12
When you're a believer, those Those who are believers have this as a practice within their lives where there's this exposure. God prompts us, he puts a check in our way to say, don't go there, don't enter that conversation, don't let those words come out of your mouth. Now we don't always obey that, but that's where confession then comes in.
Peter Englert
16:14 - 16:21
Well, let's talk about confession because, um, verse one, nine is pretty powerful. It says, but if we acknowledge, Oh, go ahead.
Ron Hall
16:22 - 16:26
We just, uh, we got to deal with a little bit with verse seven though, to make sure.
Peter Englert
16:26 - 16:28
Okay. Then let's go back to verse seven.
Ron Hall
16:28 - 16:34
We, uh, we got to exist because we got the three F's in darkness. We have the three F's in light.
Peter Englert
16:35 - 16:43
So how are we going to counteract if we're going to deny sin? What do we have to do? OK, well, then that case I love. Let's jump back to seven.
Peter Englert
16:43 - 17:06
So it says, but if we walk or slash live in the light as he himself is in the light, then we have fellowship with each other and the blood of Jesus, his son purifies us from every sin. So, you know, 116 is really saying if we claim to have fellowship with him while living in darkness, this is really the response to that. Yes.
Ron Hall
17:07 - 17:48
So then we have to deal with what does it mean to be walking in the light. And there's a variety of ways that it's approached by Bible scholars, but there are some things that we can solidify within it, and that is walking in the light would be compared to being filled with God's Spirit, that ongoing process of Ephesians 5.18, being filled with the Spirit, It's the idea of walking in obedience, where Jesus said, if you'll love me, you'll obey me. It's the idea of Romans 6, that we yield ourselves to the Lord as instruments unto righteousness.
Ron Hall
17:49 - 18:06
It's where we're giving way to God, rather than saying, I'm going to do it my way. Instead, it's saying, God, I'm going to yield to do your way. So it's back to this, what I said. If we're walking in the light as he is in the light, then we're going to have this fellowship with one another.
Ron Hall
18:07 - 18:35
And the blood of Jesus, again, he's our advocate. He paid the price for us, purifies us from all sin. So it's really, it's a way of describing being filled with the Spirit. Peter, I'm surprised, and for all of us listening to this, I'm surprised more attention is not given to 1 John, because you can live a wholesome Christian life out of what is in this, of how it impacts your daily life.
Ron Hall
18:35 - 18:51
And it's really going to show up when we get later on in the book. You know, how can you say you've loved God if you haven't seen? If you can't love your brother whom you have seen, it's going to deal with love and hate and all of those contrasts and the fears that we have. John is laying this foundation.
Ron Hall
18:51 - 19:09
Let's be walkers in the light. Let's be walkers in the presence of God. And that's what makes verse 7 so powerful. So there's the three ifs of darkness, but then the three ifs of light, and this is the first one that's the contrast to the ones walking in darkness.
Peter Englert
19:10 - 19:39
It's really good, and they all build off each other. So we talked about verses six and seven. Now we're going to look at verses eight and nine, because in verses in verses eight, basically, you know, John is pointing out if we claim that we're sinless and then his response is verse nine. But if we acknowledge our sins, he's faithful and righteous to forgive our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
Ron Hall
19:42 - 19:57
Yeah, it's huge. Again, it's this claim of somehow you have perfection. And there are groups that believe that. John Wesley had a doctrine of perfectionism, that you could obtain perfection.
Ron Hall
19:59 - 20:17
The Methodist Church was created after John Wesley, but he was an Anglican. He died one. But that movement developed this sense of perfectionism, as somehow you could arrive. And he totally missed the mark, because this is saying we really haven't arrived.
Ron Hall
20:18 - 20:28
And so you'll see the trio of those three verses reinforcing this walking in darkness. They all come down to denying the reality of sin.
Peter Englert
20:30 - 20:56
Well, and I think that this really it's important because we're going to talk more about confession. Catholics, they do the practice of confession with the booth. And also, you know, we there's other passages on confession. And, you know, I think the the point is, in this passage, is that just being honest with God, number one.
Peter Englert
20:57 - 21:16
We can talk about the layers to people, but the whole point of First John 1.9 is, you know, God should be the first place to ask for confession, forgiveness, lighting the light into darkness. And so you have a individual that has this attitude. I'm sinless. I haven't done anything wrong.
Peter Englert
21:17 - 21:29
Whereas this passage is saying, hey, the the the joy of following Jesus is you can live, um, experiencing forgiveness, experiencing confession without that pressure.
Ron Hall
21:30 - 21:50
Yeah. And that's why it is being honest with God. Because confession comes, but because we are experiencing conviction. And it's scary if in your Christian life you're not experiencing conviction, which means the cause to see.
Ron Hall
21:51 - 22:27
So when conviction comes along, we now confess by agreeing, yes, God, I realize. And it's not living in a guilt trip all the time. It's that when God exposes—and remember, God is gracious to us, because if he exposed everything that needs to go on in your life and my life right now, I mean, we'd be flat on the ground and not able to get up. Instead, what he does is he works relentlessly but methodically into our lives to expose those things that need to be addressed.
Ron Hall
22:28 - 23:06
So if we confess our sins, then he is doing a work, but if there's a denial of sin, then what is there to confess? It's back to what we said earlier. So it's being honest to God, we're being honest with ourselves, and then when necessary, we're being honest to others. And we're seeing this play out in our country, and not to be political, but in the national crisis that we're facing of people wanting to justify actions and how people have responded.
Ron Hall
23:07 - 23:22
And we've got to be honest. If something's not right, it's not right. And so you and I, again, if we're walking in the Lord, if we're walking in His light, He's going to be exposing these things. And that's what I love about verse nine.
Ron Hall
23:23 - 23:38
That's our sins. He's faithful and just to forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. And you just say, well, Ron, then my Christian life can feel like it's a defeat because I have these things going on all the time.
Peter Englert
23:38 - 23:40
I can feel guilty about everything.
Ron Hall
23:40 - 24:07
Well, God doesn't want you to feel guilty about everything, but he does want you to walk in his presence And one way you do that is by reading the Bible regularly, because the Bible's light. It's exposing us to God's truth. It's fellowshipping with other believers by gathering together as a community of faith. You know, worship last Sunday at our church was really moving, and we were singing together a song about the blood.
Ron Hall
24:07 - 24:29
And the congregation, you could sense the harmony, the unity, and the honesty of really worshipping unto the Lord. and about how the blood really washes us from all of our sins. And we need that. So the exposure of confession happens through the Word.
Ron Hall
24:29 - 24:43
It happens through relationships with each other. For those of you who are married, it happens through your spouse to point out areas in which you need to grow. It happens through fellow friends. It happens through people that are non-believers.
Ron Hall
24:44 - 25:12
that God exposes us to things that non-believers are bringing up that helps us to realize and see his light in a new way. And so we need that camaraderie, and remember that verse he's talking about here, that we walk in the light as he is in the light. We have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus, God's Son, cleanses us from all sin in verse 7. So that sets us up, then, for verse 9.
Ron Hall
25:12 - 25:18
It's that idea of walking in community together to expose what needs to be cleansed in our lives.
Peter Englert
25:19 - 25:48
Yeah, and I hope that as you're listening to this podcast, you're building on each verse and each theme. Because when we go to verse 10, if we claim that we haven't sinned, and newsflash, the original writers did not put chapter and verse in that came thousands of years later. Because, you know, this is kind of a continuous thought. So you have 110 that says, if we claim that we haven't sinned, we make God a liar.
Peter Englert
25:49 - 26:22
And then we didn't read this, but we jump into 21, which says, but if anyone should sin, we have an intercessor with the Father, Jesus Christ, who is righteous. So I think that this is pretty powerful. In some ways, these three ifs are kind of building to this one that if you're going to say that you're sinless, then why did Jesus even die on the cross? But if you do say that you're, you know, a sinful person, you have an intercessor, you have an advocate in Jesus who died and paid the penalty for your sin.
Peter Englert
26:22 - 26:25
That that is the power of what John's saying.
Ron Hall
26:26 - 26:47
Yeah, and that's where we find comfort. So there's healthy guilt and unhealthy guilt. Healthy guilt is where we're having this confession that comes out of God exposing darkness within us. Our thoughts, our words, our deeds, our attitudes.
Ron Hall
26:47 - 27:06
You know, there's a variety of passages that could be referred to that expose those types of things. So that is healthy guilt, healthy conviction. John 3, 36, he who has the son has life. He who does not have the Son does not have life, and the wrath of God remains on him.
Ron Hall
27:06 - 27:37
So in the Son, we have God's presence cleansing us, and now we are agreeing with God. I'm repeating that deliberately, of what it is, so that that is good guilt. In John chapter 16, the Holy Spirit comes to convict the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment. of sin because I've gone before the Father, of righteousness because of the purity of his life, and of judgment because the God of this world is already judged.
Ron Hall
27:38 - 28:12
So John chapter 16 is a great cross-reference here of the idea of what the Holy Spirit is up to. So there is conviction coming into our lives. So healthy conviction, healthy guilt, brings us to agree with God to experience cleansing. Unhealthy conviction, unhealthy condemnation is where we are beating ourselves up, we have confessed our sins, we've seen that the slate is clear before the Lord, and then we continue to beat ourselves up again and again.
Ron Hall
28:13 - 28:32
And, you know, the good news is that in the Lord there truly is forgiveness. Every one of us need to have 1 John 1-9 memorized in order to balance it out. And I love the character of God brought out in here. If we confess our sins, He is faithful.
Ron Hall
28:33 - 28:41
That's God's character. That's God's very nature. He's faithful and just. He will forgive us our sins, cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Peter Englert
28:43 - 29:06
Well, that's a lot in five verses, but I think it's really important. And I think we're going to unpack a lot of these other, um, ideas throughout the rest of John, uh, first John, I should say. And so, yeah, I think. As we kind of close here, is there anything else that you want to add application wise?
Peter Englert
29:06 - 29:15
I think it was important for us to go deep, which we did. But like what what might be just some insight or application for us today?
Ron Hall
29:16 - 29:43
That walking in God's light means to walk in his presence. And it is compared to being filled with His Spirit, walking in obedience, yielding our lives to Him. As we've already mentioned, but we want to deliberately be redundant to reinforce that. So when you're reading your Bible each day, you're not doing it so, you know, chapter a day keeps the devil away.
Ron Hall
29:44 - 30:01
No, you are doing it because it is the idea that I am exposing myself to God's light. And as I'm reading his word, I'm in Isaiah, my Old Testament devotions right now. And there are things that hit you smack in the face. And you're just thinking, I'm so far removed.
Ron Hall
30:01 - 30:16
Even this morning, these people draw near me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Jesus quoted that out of Isaiah chapter 29 in the New Testament. And it hit me to make sure. I was exposed to God's light.
Ron Hall
30:17 - 30:36
the need of what needs to change in my own life, and then I'm responsive. So that walking in the light is part of it. And then it's that agreeing with confessing. So I don't want to be, and I don't want any of you to be found among the cessationists as somehow deniers of sin.
Ron Hall
30:37 - 30:54
It's acknowledging it, being realistic. Don't try to redefine it culturally. Let God be the one that gives the definition of what sin is. And then our response is to agree with him and accept his plan for a remedy that's found in Jesus Christ.
Peter Englert
30:57 - 31:08
That's pretty powerful. So I think that that's a great place to close. We'll pick up with 2-1 in our next episode, but thank you for joining us for the Reading First John podcast.