Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques

Why it’s not about being born a great communicator, but becoming one.

The greatest communicators aren’t always great from the start. As Lerone Martin knows, even the great Martin Luther King Jr. had to practice before he could persuade.
Martin is the Martin Luther King Jr. Centennial Professor at Stanford, and as director of the King Research and Education Institute, he has spent years studying how King developed his brilliant communication that continues to captivate audiences to this day. “This is a skill that Martin developed over years,” Martin says. “There are stories of him practicing in the mirror... And I think it speaks to us about how we can develop this skill over time.”
In this episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, Martin and host Matt Abrahams unpack the techniques behind King's legendary speeches, from the musicality of his voice to his use of repetition and narrative structure. Whether you’re preparing a speech or building conversation skills, Martin highlights King’s example to show that great communication isn’t always born — it’s built.

To listen to the extended Deep Thinks version of this episode, please visit FasterSmarter.io/premium.

Episode Reference Links:
Connect:

Chapters:

  • (00:00) - Introduction
  • (02:59) - Why MLK Was So Compelling
  • (04:26) - MLK’s Early Speaking Struggles
  • (05:58) - How MLK Practiced and Improved
  • (06:53) - Favorite MLK Speech
  • (08:07) - “I Have A Dream” and Prepared Spontaneity
  • (10:12) - MLK’s Core Techniques
  • (13:10) - Repetition, Rhythm, and Momentum
  • (15:39) - Conviction vs. Performative Messaging
  • (21:03) - The Final Three Questions
  • (25:38) - Conclusion

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Creators and Guests

Host
Matt Abrahams
Lecturer Stanford University Graduate School of Business | Think Fast Talk Smart podcast host
Guest
Lerone Martin
Professor | Author | Director of the Martin Luther King Jr. Research and Education Institute at Stanford

What is Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques?

One of the most essential ingredients to success in business and life is effective communication.

Join Matt Abrahams, best-selling author and Strategic Communication lecturer at Stanford Graduate School of Business, as he interviews experts to provide actionable insights that help you communicate with clarity, confidence, and impact. From handling impromptu questions to crafting compelling messages, Matt explores practical strategies for real-world communication challenges.

Whether you’re navigating a high-stakes presentation, perfecting your email tone, or speaking off the cuff, Think Fast, Talk Smart equips you with the tools, techniques, and best practices to express yourself effectively in any situation. Enhance your communication skills to elevate your career and build stronger professional relationships.

Tune in every Tuesday for new episodes. Subscribe now to unlock your potential as a thoughtful, impactful communicator. Learn more and sign up for our eNewsletter at fastersmarter.io.

Matt Abrahams: Conviction and creativity
are critical for successful communication.

My name's Matt Abrahams and I
teach Strategic Communication at

Stanford Graduate School of Business.

Welcome to Think Fast
Talk Smart, the podcast.

Today I'm excited to
speak with Lerone Martin.

Lerone is the Martin Luther King Jr.
Centennial professor in religious

studies and African American
studies at Stanford University.

He also serves as the director of
the Martin Luther King, Jr. Research

and Education Institute at Stanford.

His second book will be out soon.

Well, welcome Lerone.

I am so excited to have you here.

We've known each other for a while and
we've been talking about doing this.

Thanks for being here.

Lerone Martin: Happy to be here.

Matt Abrahams: Excellent.

Shall we get started?

Lerone Martin: Let's get started.

Matt Abrahams: Every one of our episodes
of this show ends with me asking our

guests the same question, who's a
communicator that they admire and why?

And above all else, the two most
popular answers are Michelle Obama

and Martin Luther King, Jr. I'm not
sure of your knowledge of Michelle

Obama, but I certainly know you're an
expert in Martin Luther King, Jr. Why

do you think so many people view him
as a great speaker and communicator?

Lerone Martin: I think one of the
things that makes Martin so fascinating

and so compelling as a speaker is
his ability to paint a picture.

I think he was so good at taking
you on a journey and painting a

picture, and then getting people
excited about what he was saying.

And I think his ability to bring
out emotion, to bring out excitement

in his listeners, I think is
one reason why people really

gravitate to him as a preacher.

And I also think his ability to
use his voice almost like a musical

instrument, that's the other reason
that people are so moved by him.

The musicality of his
voice, his pacing, his tone.

I'm teaching a class right now
here on campus, and for some of

the assignments, students actually
have to listen to his speeches.

Obviously I could assign them to read
them, but I tell them they have to hear

it and I want them to hear him, and I
want them to hear how audiences responded.

And students are still to this
day, moved by his speeches.

Even, you know, almost
over 60 years later.

Matt Abrahams: The imagery that he's
able to create, the connection through

that engagement and energy, and certainly
the way he used his voice are all, when

combined together, I think what make
him so charismatic and so interesting.

And these are skills we can all learn,
not to try to sound like him, but these

are the same levers that we can use.

Speaking of public speaking in, in
your new book, you look at Martin

Luther King Jr's early years, is it
true that he received poor grades

in public speaking in Oratory?

Lerone Martin: He did.

I mean, they were passing grades, but
they weren't a's, as you would expect.

He participated in a speech
contest as a high school student.

He won the high school contest and then
he went to the state competition and

did not even place in that competition.

When he got to college, he had to take
a course called Composition and Reading

with this legendary professor at Morehouse
by the name of Gladstone Lewis Chandler.

And he said that King had a great
voice, but he really struggled, um,

showed potential in that course.

And so he got a C in that
class as a public speaker.

And then he went on to seminary and took
a preaching class in which he got a B. So,

I think what that tells us is that this is
a skill that Martin developed over years.

He had a great voice, his mother taught
him to sing at a very young age, so we

had the musicality, but in terms of the
pacing, the organization, I think this

is something he developed over time.

And I think it speaks to us about how
we can develop this skill over time.

Matt Abrahams: I'm curious, was
it mostly through repetition?

Did he really invest time and effort
in improving his communication?

Did he look to others who he admired?

Lerone Martin: There are stories
of him practicing in the mirror.

And then when he was off to seminary,
his father would have him come home

every summer and take over the pulpit.

So, he had those hours of
rehearsing and practicing in

front of people at his church.

And so he took it very seriously.

And then he admired local
preachers, not as much his father.

He felt his father was a bit
too fundamentalist and carried

away too much with emotion.

But he admired people like William Holmes
Borders, who was a local minister at

Wheat Street Baptist Church in Atlanta.

And these individuals were really
influential and shaped the way that

he thought about public speaking.

And he brought elements of their style,
his own style, the musicality he was

taught from his mother, and he brought
all that together to produce the

Martin Luther King Jr. that we know.

Matt Abrahams: What I'm hearing
and that I hope everybody is

hearing that we can all get better.

Absolutely.

And even somebody that we admire and is
noted for his oratory and speaking ability

might not have started there, but it was
through practice, having role models.

You know, if you wanna be a good speaker,
you gotta watch people speak, and

speak yourself, and I appreciate that.

Almost everybody is familiar with the
eloquence of Martin Luther King Jr's.

I Have a Dream speech.

I actually find his Nobel Prize
acceptance speech to be more

rousing and better architected.

Do you have a favorite speech,
sermon or writing of his, and

if so, what is it and why?

Lerone Martin: It's a great question.

It depends on what day you ask me
about which speech i'll tell you,

I've been a big fan of the speech
he gave here at Stanford in 1967.

It's a speech called The Other America.

Our Stanford Library has put it
on YouTube, you can watch it.

What I love is that it's about 45
minutes and he doesn't stumble once.

There's no manuscript.

It's all coming from his heart
and mind, and it's a speech about

poverty in America, and it's also
a speech about racism and war.

And watching him hold this audience of
over a thousand Stanford undergraduates

in the palm of his hand as he's delivering
this speech, I find extremely moving,

and I try to watch it at least once a
year because I find it just so moving.

Matt Abrahams: I adore the speech as well.

I think it's very well done and
obviously having a connection to

this institution makes it special.

You mentioned in there that
it wasn't a manuscript.

Can you share with us a little
bit of the history behind the

famous I Have a Dream speech.

Is it true that part of that, if
not most of it was extemporaneous?

Lerone Martin: Yes.

The, I Have a Dream part of the speech
towards the end and the repetition

of that is something that he had not
written down that he was going to do.

However, to our point earlier
about practice, he had used that

refrain twice prior, once in
Detroit and once in South Carolina.

It was a part of his repertoire, but
it was a part of the repertoire that

he did not plan to use that day.

And I like that idea in the sense that
you can have a manuscript prepared,

but it's always great, I think, as a
public speaker to try your best, to be

attuned to the moment, to be attuned to
your audience and to be open to perhaps

deviating a bit in a public address.

Matt Abrahams: I do a lot of work on
spontaneous speaking, speaking in the

moment, and one of the fundamental
points I try to make is that you

have to prepare to be spontaneous.

An athlete does a lot of drills to prepare
for the moment that is spontaneous.

And it sounds like in a similar
way, the I Have a Dream speech

had some of those elements.

He had practiced some of this but
hadn't intended, and for whatever

reason in that moment, felt that was
the appropriate thing to bring about.

And I think there's a lesson for all
of us in that as well, which is you

can practice, you can think through
things, and then allow yourself in the

moment to read the room, read the space.

What amazes me is that was a very
big stage and a very important

talk, and that he took that
opportunity to be spontaneous.

I think many of us would've
stuck to the script that we had.

Lerone Martin: But I like the way you said
though, about practice, the repetition

will allow you to be spontaneous.

I like that.

And using the metaphor
of an athlete is so true.

Thinking about Steph Curry and
LeBron James and others, like they

do what they do and sometimes it's
impromptu, but that muscle memory

right, enables them to do that.

And I think approaching public speaking
like that, I love that metaphor.

Matt Abrahams: It's that practice and
knowing that practice is preparing

you for that is important as well.

To know that in that moment I have
those skills and I can rely on

them is really important, there's
a confidence that comes from that.

As someone who's extensively studied Dr.
King's writings and speeches, I'd love

for you to share with us some of the
techniques and devices that he would use.

You've highlighted some already,
but he was excellent at using

lots of different oratorical and
rhetorical devices to really engage.

Can you share with us some of the ones
that you note or pay attention to?

Lerone Martin: Absolutely.

And I love the way he said that
'cause he is kind of a jazz man in

that he pulls from different styles.

So I think one style that we,
that you know first and foremost

will be the experience of the
African American Baptist Church.

His ability to use narrative and
story from the Bible to elucidate

modern points, I think was something
he learned from the pulpit.

Bringing pathos, bringing emotion
right to his speeches, that's

something he learns from the pulpit
in the Black Baptist tradition.

And part of that is organizing a sermon
around what some African American

preachers have talked about, in
particular Samuel Dewitt Proctor, who

went to the same seminary as King before
King, Crozier Theological Seminary.

And he, in a book called The Sound of
the Trumpet, talked about organizing

sermons along the lines of an antithesis.

The world is so bad, things aren't
going well, and then a thesis,

but God or the Bible says this.

And then ending with a synthesis
about, now how are we then to live?

What are we now called to do?

And I think that King's structure
of his sermons often followed that.

The world is bad.

It may be racism or poverty or war.

Here's what the Bible says, and
now here's how we ought to live.

So I think the structure of the
African-American sermon, I think

the emotion of it, I think is one
aspect we can look to for King.

And then the other is, I think
what we talked about earlier, is

just the pacing and the musicality.

He is so good at emphasizing
certain words, slowing down,

elongating certain phrases.

So I think the musicality, the tonality,
I think that's another mechanism

or device that he used so well.

And finally, I think, you know,
of course, it's the content.

I love the way that he not only
uses biblical stories, but King

will also use examples from everyday
life to really elucidate his points.

And I think in providing a story, you
bring your audience with you on a journey.

And you are taking them somewhere.

And I love the way that he does that, both
using the Bible, but everyday experiences.

He will use examples of his own
personal life to elucidate a

broader point, to connect people
around their shared humanity.

And I think those sort
of techniques, right?

It's the musicality, it's the structure
of the African American sermon, the

emotion of the sermon and the ability
to use narrative and storytelling I

think are some of the devices he used
and just made him the man that we know.

Matt Abrahams: We don't have to
necessarily refer to the Bible, just

making any reference to some commonly
understood experience or story can help.

And he uses even more specific techniques
that I'd love to get your opinion on.

He uses a lot of alliteration where
there's a rhyme in what he says.

There's a technique called
anaphora, which is the repetition.

The I have A Dream is repeated,
in his Nobel Prize speech

he repeats the same phrases.

And there's a sense of momentum, a sense
of passion that comes in that repetition.

The use of analogies is so
powerful in a lot of his work.

When you really dissect it, it's
fascinating to see how many different

techniques he weaves together.

And I think for many of us, we
can say that was Martin Luther

King Jr. He was an expert at it.

But we can all put some of
this into our communication.

Do you find, trying to put some of
this stuff in your work, tell me a

little bit about how you do that.

I'd love to learn 'cause I'd like
to put even more in what I do.

Lerone Martin: Well, what you just said
about repetition is what I try to do in my

public speaking and some of my lectures,
because you do get a sense of momentum.

He uses it in a speech, his last
actually speech on April 3rd.

I mean, everyone knows the mountaintop
part, but before that, he goes on this

long discourse about if I had sneezed
and he's telling a story about that

he had been stabbed in the 1950s.

It was stabbed by a letter
opener by a a mentally ill woman.

And the doctors had told him it
just missed his aorta, and if he had

sneezed, then he would've not survived.

And so he uses that and says, if I
had sneezed, I wouldn't have been

here in 1961 when this happened.

If I had sneezed, I wouldn't
have been here in 1962.

And it brings it all the way back
up to 68 with this momentum that

then say, and now here we are.

And now we're going to move forward and
continue the progress in American society.

I love the use of repetition
in that regard because it does

bring your audience with you.

It's almost like you're on a
rollercoaster and you're going tick,

tick, tick up to the top, and then
you're about ready to take off.

So I like to use that.

And as well as everyday experiences
of shared humanity that I try

to use for my students, right?

So I know that all of them are probably
not sleeping well or all of them are

probably eating certain types of foods
or they're stressing out 'cause we're

getting to the end of the quarter.

I try to use those experiences to relate
to the course material, to understand

that this is a shared experience,
that all of us are going through this

together and there's a way forward.

So I think that I tried to use some
of the stuff that King used as well

in my lectures and my public speaking.

Matt Abrahams: And I know from what the
students say, it's very well received.

I wanna highlight on
this notion of momentum.

The feeling and experience of
movement that happens in really

potent, powerful speeches.

And I think he was a master of that.

And I think all of us can tap into, it's
not just talking about movement, but

it's actually giving us an experience.

Saying words more quickly,
more slowly repeating.

These are all tools that give that,
and that's really, really helpful.

Something else that's really powerful
about Martin Luther King Jr's

communication is that he was rooted
in a clear purpose to achieve justice.

I'd like you to step out of your role
as a, as an academic teacher, how can

contemporary leaders and managers ensure
their messages are anchored in something

that's genuine, a purpose, rather than
appearing as just performative statements?

Lerone Martin: Yeah, I think conviction.

I think you've just, you've really
got to be completely convinced of

the cause that you're speaking about
or the issue you're addressing.

'Cause I think in today's world,
people can spot when people are

fraudulent or when people are
just, as you said, just performing.

I think that you've gotta be completely
convinced and completely convicted

of what you're saying, because if
you're not convinced it's gonna be

difficult for you to convince others.

And I think King was completely
convinced about at least where

he thought America could get to
or where he wanted America to go.

He wasn't always sure about what
was the best method to get there,

other than of course non-violence.

But he was always convinced that
what he was doing was right.

And I think that's a lesson for all of us.

I think we have to ourselves be convinced
and convicted of what we're talking

about before we can convince others.

And I think that King shows us that.

Matt Abrahams: That notion of
conviction is really powerful.

It takes reflection To get there, you
have to think about what's important

to me, and then the next step is,
how do I manifest that in my own

actions so that I'm seen as authentic.

It's very easy as a leader
to talk about values.

It's a little more challenging
to live them, to to show them.

I always talk with my students
about credibility comes not

just from telling, but showing.

And so finding ways to show through the
stories you tell, through the actions,

through who you highlight and uplift.

So I really appreciate that notion of
conviction and I challenge everybody

listening regardless of your role to
really think about what has you convicted,

what is it that's important to you?

This has been fantastic.

Before we end, I'd like to
ask everybody three questions.

One, I make up just for you, and two are
similar to everyone I've interviewed.

I'm curious if you had this moment
to share with younger people

the importance of communication.

Share with me why it's so important.

I mean, you and I prior to the interview,
we're talking about AI and how AI

is being used, and certainly it's a
wonderful tool to help with communication.

But, from your perspective, somebody
who studied one of the greats and

many of the greats in communication,
why is it so important for a young

person to learn how to communicate
authentically with conviction?

Lerone Martin: Well, I think the first
thing would be to inspire others.

If we're thinking about Martin
Luther King Jr. one of the things

that he always said was, life's
most persistent and urgent question

is, what are you doing for others?

And I think what he shows us is how
communication can inspire others to dream.

Good communication, I should say.

So I think that's one thing
I would tell a young adult.

How do you wanna inspire others
and move others and help to

have an impact on the world?

Great communicators can do that.

Even if you have great ideas, if
you don't know how to communicate

them in an effective manner, the
greatness of your ideas or the

genius of your ideas can get lost.

So I would say to a young person,
if you really want to have an impact

on your community, you want to
inspire others, learn how to be a

great communicator, and I think that
you'll find you'll have an impact on

your community and those around you.

Matt Abrahams: Inspiration is so
important and tools can't necessarily

give you that, and it's not just for
young people, I think all of us benefit

when we think about how we inspire
others through our communication.

I really appreciate it.

So I'm gonna modify my
second question for you.

I always ask people, who's a
communicator you admire and why?

But I'm gonna remove one from the
table for you, beyond Martin Luther

King Jr., who is a communicator
that you admire and why?

Lerone Martin: You know, I have
to go with who you started with.

I'll join the crowd and say that I've
always been impressed with Michelle Obama.

She's a great storyteller.

And she can take you along on a
journey, she'll make a point, and then

she'll tell an amazing story that's
heartfelt, that puts you in the moment.

And she finds these common human
experiences and say, we all know what it's

like to come home from work and then be
stressed about, okay, what's for dinner?

Are the kids okay?

Right.

That takes you there.

And then her conviction, she's
always able to convey her lectures

and her speeches with feeling.

You always get the
sense that this is real.

So I'm a big fan of hers.

I'm also a big fan of Barack.

I think Barack does a great job
of reminding us, or at least

attempting to remind America
of our values and who we are.

And calling us to something greater.

I love that when Barack speaks, he's
so good at painting the American story.

He embodies it, as we
talked about earlier, right?

I mean, his own story about his family.

And I love the way that he
calls us into something greater.

I've heard him on podcasts,
I've heard him give public

lectures and I think he's good.

So I, I guess you could say I'm
a fan of the Obama family when

it comes to public speaking.

I think they're very good and they're
both very gifted in their own way.

Matt Abrahams: Michelle Obama's ability
to tell a story in much the same way

that Martin Luther King Jr. Could tell
a story, they tell stories differently,

but use them for the same purpose.

To really connect, to demonstrate, to
humanize, and that's a very powerful tool.

Thank you for sharing that.

Final question.

What are the first three ingredients that
go into a successful communication recipe?

Lerone Martin: First three ingredients.

Oh, wow.

I like that.

I wanna start with conviction.

I think you gotta do, reflect
and be convinced of your message.

And then I think, of course, it's
the structure, it's the format, it's

this, you said the GPS, the mapping.

If you're convinced to know where
you want to go, now you have to then

plan how you're gonna get there.

And then I would say pacing.

What pace do you wanna travel?

Fast, slow, or moderate it?

Right?

Do you know where is
there gonna be rest stops?

There gonna be places where you're
gonna park and linger a little longer.

So I think those would
be the three for me.

I think it'd be conviction, and I
think it'd be structure or mapping,

and then I think I'd say pacing.

Matt Abrahams: I love the way
you wrapped up that answer.

A true teacher will summarize in the end.

Uh, you make my job really easy.

Conviction is all about
your focus, your North Star.

Structure is about how do I
package it in a way that's

meaningful with high fidelity?

And then pacing is you can have a
great message, but one delivered

poorly isn't gonna be as effective.

Thank you so much.

Thank you not only for sharing your
thoughts, but for also helping us

dissect and better understand the
importance of communication in general,

but specifically around how Martin
Luther King Jr. was so effective.

I appreciate your time and
thanks for being with us.

Lerone Martin: It was an
honor and a privilege.

Thank you for having me.

Matt Abrahams: Thank you for
joining us for another episode of

Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast.

To learn more about how to
deliver compelling communication

listen to episode 192.

This episode was produced by Katherine
Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams.

Our music is from Floyd Wonder, with
thanks to Podium Podcast company.

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