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Every Tuesday on the CosmoFactory podcast: Discover the latest innovations along the cosmetics and personal care supply chain. Hear thought-provoking conversations with top beauty industry experts from around the world. Learn about next-level solutions and find inspiration to turn your own ideas into industry-changing innovations.
A PRODUCTION OF Cosmoprof Worldwide Bologna
CosmoFactory is the first podcast from Cosmoprof Worldwide Bologna—the most important beauty trade show in the world. Dedicated to all sectors of the industry, Cosmoprof Worldwide Bologna welcomes over 250,000 visitors from 150 countries and regions and nearly 3,000 exhibitors to Bologna, Italy, each year. It’s where our diverse and international industry comes together to build business relationships and to discover the best brands and newest innovations across consumer beauty, professional beauty, and the entire supply chain. The trade show includes a robust program of exclusive educational content, featuring executives and key opinion leaders from every sector of the cosmetics, fragrance, and personal care industry. Cosmoprof Worldwide Bologna is the most important event of the Cosmoprof international network, with exhibitions in Asia (Hong Kong), the US (Las Vegas and Miami), India (Mumbai) and Thailand (Bangkok). Thanks to its global exhibitions Cosmoprof connects a community of more than 500,000 beauty stakeholders and 10,000 companies from 190 countries and regions. Learn more today at Cosmoprof.com
CosmoFactory was co-developed in collaboration with supply-side expert Deanna Utroske, Host of the CosmoFactory podcast and Editor of the Beauty Insights newsletter.
This transcript is automatically generated.
Deanna: [00:00:00] In this episode, we're talking about creating products for kids, tweens, and teens, and what that means for ingredient selection, for product benefits, for branding and design. We're talking about the advantages of turnkey manufacturing, about operations, and more. Today, on the Cosmo Factory podcast, I'm joined by Risa Barish and Abby Meets.
Deanna: Risa is the founder and CEO of both Fairy Tales Hair Care and TBH Kids. Abby is the Chief Operations Officer for both of those [00:01:00] brands. Welcome to you both.
Risa: hi, Deanna. Thanks so much for having us.
Abbie: Thank you. It's good to get started.
Deanna: Excellent. I'm so glad you're both here. So, I'll ask you just to bear with me as I give a bit of context to our conversation here today. The brands you've created, Risa, reach a consumer demographic that has become very visible this year. In mid January, the phenomenon of so called Sephora Kids started making headlines.
Deanna: So, these are our kids. tweens and teenagers with a striking interest in preventative and reparative cosmetic products, skincare in particular. Now, the Sephora kids phenomenon has surfaced concerns about ingredients and product benefits that are potentially detrimental for young skin. This is, um, appropriately, I believe, inspired some brands to adjust their marketing or even launch campaigns telling Gen Alpha and consumers on the younger end of Gen Z not to buy their products.
Deanna: There have even been, in some states in the U. S., um, the introduction of prospective legislation that would regulate [00:02:00] the sale of certain cosmetic products to these consumers. excuse me, this has led to a corollary concern that, um, necessary care routines and products, especially daily sun care, could become difficult for kids, uh, tweens and teens to access and enjoy.
Deanna: So. With all that said, um, Risa, I'd like to just start with your newer brand, um, TBH Kids, which launched, was it 2019 or 2020?
Risa: Uh, 2019? Yeah, five years ago.
Deanna: Yeah, excellent. Just introduce us to that brand, would you please?
Risa: Sure, it's called TBH Kids, to be honest. Um, you know, five or six years ago, we noticed that the Fairy Tales customer was growing up. Um, and it really started with my kids and I realized that they needed some products to help with oily hair, right? Um, and they were breaking out just a little bit, like little pimples around their nose and little blackheads, nothing crazy, nothing that needed a ton of, um, you know, [00:03:00] actives.
Risa: But I feel, I felt that it had to be something out there for this age demographic and there really wasn't. So Abby and I put our heads together and we came up with tbh kids, which is hair, skin and body for the tween market. And we have been selling for five years now long before the support our kids were around
Deanna: Yeah, absolutely. Um, and, and let's um, expand our knowledge of your work a bit further. This, the Fairy Tales hair care brand that you mentioned as well, actually launched over 25 years ago. Tell us what that brand is about.
Risa: door. So fairy tales hair care was launched in 1999. We are the creators and leaders of salon quality hair care for kids. And it started with our Rosemeyer Repel line, which is what we are probably most famous for, which is our lice prevention. And then it grew into Sun and Swim and Tangle Tamer and Curly Q and a daily line of products.
Risa: Um, we [00:04:00] really created a niche a very long time ago and we have built a very loyal following through the years. We are sold in every major retailer in the country. We are in all the grocery trains, we're in pharmacy, we are still in the salon business, which is where we started. Um, and we are actually on our second generation of customer.
Risa: So, um, as scary as that is for me, but, um, it's, it's really lovely. It's a true testament to the good ingredients that we put in our products. So it was a really nice transition into, you know, tween personal care because we have such loyalty, you know, brand loyalty, um, from the fairy tales customer.
Deanna: wonderful. Thank you for sharing that. So, I do want to know, and tell me if I'm not correct here, but that your business is based in the U. S. and you're selling to consumers in the North American market exclusively. Is that correct? Okay, okay,
Abbie: not international.
Deanna: All right. I appreciate that clarification that will help everyone listening.
Deanna: Um, so [00:05:00] I want to ask about your process then of developing brands for younger consumers. How did you establish ingredient guidelines for your brands?
Risa: A lot of research. I was going to say a lot of research and a lot of reading, a lot of talking to dermatologists and doctors and, you know, pediatricians, um, and kids and mostly research. I mean, I, you know, Sort of put together a wish list of ingredients, right? And then probably more importantly, we put together of things that we don't want in them. Um, you know, there's kids, you know, as you've mentioned with the Sephora kids using retinol on their skin, which is just God awful damaging the skin barrier of a child. Um, it can be irreparable. So, um, I don't know if that's worth, um, but you know what I mean? So, um, you know, we were very careful in using tried and true ingredients.
Risa: Um, we didn't get too crazy with, you know, things that are sort of up and coming. Um, aloe and jojoba are as tried and true as it [00:06:00] gets, but they're wonderful and they're, they're mainstays for a reason. Um, our pimple, um, uh, wash and that we have, um, uses 0. 4 percent salicylic acid, right? Where most other products will create, be created with 1%.
Risa: Um, but we knew that we were, you know, formulating for a child who's just starting to need something like this. So we brought it down to 0. 4%. So
Abbie: on top of looking at ingredients, we look at performance characteristics too, which is really important. And when we go back and test all the products that we get back from our contract manufacturers.
Abbie: So not only, um, do we hold ourselves to a high regard in terms of Providing products have great ingredients, but those performance characteristics really have to solve a problem and do what they say they are, because that's how we have repeat customers that really trust our brand. And we have, um, a huge brand loyalty because of our problem solution based brand.
Deanna: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. I appreciate that. Thank you, Abby. And Risa, [00:07:00] when you mentioned, you know, percent in formulation and moving from, you know, 1 percent as a recommended, you know, Dosage, you know, perhaps, you know, that's standard from an ingredient supplier, um, down to, you know, down to the, was it 0. 4%. Yeah. Um, was there some sort of benchmark you were looking at?
Deanna: Or was that, um, something that came out of formulation testing? How did you arrive
Abbie: So, yeah. So there are a lot of products in the market that 0. 51 percent and we knew we didn't really want to be in that area. We wanted to be very entry level. We knew that the child that we were going after to start a routine would have delicate skins. We want to introduce them to those ingredients from a cleansing perspective.
Abbie: So we actually didn't have a benchmark at that time because you either don't have it in there or you have it at that 0. 51 percent area. Yeah. But we were willing to try it at different levels to see if it achieved our goal of cleaning the skin, not being irritating, being gentle, and
Risa: those are the things that we looked at.
Risa: Right. And then the point, we [00:08:00] settled on the point for it. That's really where we realized it did, it did what it needed to do without doing things it shouldn't have done.
Deanna: Yeah. And how long has that product been on the market?
Abbie: Five years.
Deanna: Okay. Okay. And any, any notable feedback, any adjustments or. Okay.
Risa: no, people absolutely love it. It's great. Yeah. We have a white that goes along with it. So, you know, for those lazy kids, it's nice. It has a little salicylic acid in it, so they can wipe the daily grime off at night from their bed. Um, so yeah, people, people really love it. It's
Abbie: got
Risa: great feedback,
Abbie: the gentle cleansing wash too.
Abbie: So if you don't have any of those challenges and you don't want to have cell acid, you have the option that you just have a gentle cleansing wash that we developed along with the white too. So you're not missing out. If you have those problems or you don't, we have two different offerings.
Deanna: Yeah, I love that. I never thought about doing skincare in bed. I wonder if I should change my whole
Abbie: I wife's life, easy, really nice when you're really lazy.
Deanna: I love it. I love it. So I believe it's true for both your brands. Um, [00:09:00] but I want to think about this, this with you, your customer is really as much the parent as it is the kids or the teens. Is that, is that true?
Risa: it is. It is, you know, we like to, um, we like to make the kids happy, but we sell to the moms. We really do. We've learned a long time ago that it's, um, the buying power is with the mom. Um, the, for TBH. They have to want it and like it to use it. So we had to appeal to them aesthetically, but the message to the parents was efficacy.
Deanna: That's, that's, that's really helpful. I'd like to think about how that, um, can we call it a marketing approach has informed the packaging and labeling choices that you have made.
Risa: This is, this is big for us. So, um, it was, it's a, it's a good story. So five years ago when we created TBH, there was nothing like this in the marketplace. Right. So we were like, okay, how are we going to get our message across? So [00:10:00] our designer is just a great guy. I'm Alan Maisy at Workshop Branding. And he came up with the text message on front of pack, which tells the story of the product, right?
Deanna: we know that like conversational branding or is can be quite effective. So that, yeah, no, it sounds very cool.
Risa: Right. So it was great. It did exactly what it was meant to do. It told the story. You have this problem. This is the product. This is the ingredients, and this is going to show you, this is going to, you know, fix that for you.
Deanna: Right. But it visually looked like a text message
Risa: Correct. All on front of pack. So it was busy, but it got the message across.
Risa: And I do believe that's how we were able to grow the brand because that it was very simple. Fast forward to five years and, um, you know, like everything else, things change. And I think the pendulum has swung to the, um, cleaner, simpler packaging choices. [00:11:00] And, um, And we realized that, you know, that we had gotten our message across now with the support kids out there.
Risa: The message is way bigger than what we had put out there. So, um, between that and the sort of simplifying of a packaging, you know, era that we're in, we rebranded TBH just recently. We are so excited with the new packaging. It is. using the same color schemes because we just love them. They're, they're youthful.
Risa: They're still, um, fun, but they, they are for kids and
Abbie: they're gender neutral. That was right. And that was big
Risa: for us to be gender neutral as well. Um, but we really just simplify the text messaging conversation is off the pack. Um, it's very simple. It's the brand name it's what's in it. And, um, and what it does in one sentence, um, very clean, very simple.
Risa: Um, and, uh, we're hoping that the kids like it. We did. We actually did test it with some kids because our our tick [00:12:00] tock was filled with lovely Children who didn't like our packaging. And we're quite vocal about it, which is funny and cute and weird all the same time, but, um, so we did go back to a bunch of them who were rather engaged with us from the start and show them a sample.
Risa: sample. And everyone loved it. I mean, truly, there wasn't one person that looked at the new packaging and said no.
Abbie: And they love that no formula changes whatsoever. So I want to be really clear about that. Those are staying the same. We've had positive feedback and all the formulas that we offered. It was just a packaging refresh.
Deanna: No. What I really love about that story is that as you're suggesting, Abby, the products are of value, right? To your customers. They like them. They enjoy them. Risa, what you shared, you know, that they're so engaged with you on social media, they are your customers. They're excited about the product, but they do, you know, have opinions, um, you know, about aesthetics, uh, and [00:13:00] that.
Deanna: And that that matters to them. So I think it's interesting if I can just over generalize to, you know, think back about the Sephora kids phenomenon a little bit. It's as if, um, you know, some of these kids that were worried about right, making unhealthy choices for their skin are actually making really good choices.
Deanna: I'm assuming your brand is appropriate for for your market when I say that, but, you know, they're, they're using products that are appropriate for their skin. They want to right to be so engaged with you. Um, yeah. But they want to participate as well. Um, and so, you know, to know that, that you're serving that market, to know that they, you know, are excited to, you know, be using your brand.
Deanna: I think, I think that says a lot. Um, I'm, I'm looking forward to seeing the, the new branding for sure. Yeah,
Risa: nice. We're excited to start launching it. The wipes, um, they just, we just got a couple of pieces and no, it's like the whole office was like jumping around and everyone came and ran and got them. And yeah, we were all [00:14:00] really excited to see it. It's really nice. It's really clean.
Risa: It's different. It's so now we're execute.
Abbie: We were able to execute really quickly. We, this was something that came to us, um, at the end of January when we're Placing some reorders and we're like, oh, let's do this. We're getting feedback. How do we engage our customer? How quick can we turn it in? Six, less than six months, four months, we're actually getting product here that, um, our designers designed.
Abbie: We went through a couple different iterations. We made decisions here as a team, and there's this ownership within the whole Tales TBH kids team to put this to market. And we're so excited about it.
Risa: Yeah. It's a true testament to, um, teamwork. To teamwork and a small business. Right. Um,
Deanna: is impressive to think about that turnaround. Are there any, um, notes you can share about, um, your supply chain partners there, Abby?
Abbie: well, we, we, uh, really look for, um, turnkey suppliers. So those kind of that do it all, we brief them very clearly and they know what we're looking for. Um, we've had partners for a [00:15:00] long time that continue to keep the business that they had, and we're more than excited to jump on this refresh for us and make it happen.
Abbie: So that communication and the team internally here was able to guide that process pretty seamlessly. And we're very fortunate. Um, our packaging supply time stay within lead time and everything's worked out really well. I'm knocking on wood right
Deanna: Yes.
Abbie: everything's great as everything starts to come in.
Abbie: So,
Deanna: Oh, that's
Abbie: so good. Yeah,
Deanna: Yeah, great. Let's think a little bit more about, um, why you're working with Turnkey manufacturing. Just, um, for folks listening, quickly remind us what Turnkey means, but then explain why it was really the right choice for these brands.
Abbie: well, for us specifically, as you mentioned before, we've been in business with fairy tales for over 25 years. Um, Risa says a small business, but we are a medium sized business, I would say now. And, but we still do that with the work of under 20 people in the office. So when we look at resource allocation and where we want to spend our time, we don't have a huge purchasing [00:16:00] department.
Abbie: We want to work with contract manufacturers that hire those experts in those areas. that they can kind of work with. Sometimes we do direct advise, which they're open to, but we love to work with experts within the fields. I think that makes us stronger. So we look for those contract manufacturing partners that have that and offer that.
Abbie: And we're loyal to that. We, we don't mind paying a little bit more to get that service because it makes sense. for the size of team that we are and the customer that we service. But honestly, we can turn around things very quickly. We can make decisions quickly. So, you know, luckily for us, it's a make and ship process and our contract manufacturers have been very helpful and we've been doing business with some of them for decades.
Deanna: Yeah, that's amazing. Thank you. I'm wondering how that figures into the ingredient sourcing and purchasing. You mentioned doing so much research earlier, and I know, um, with the fairy tales hair care, for example, you do have, you know, what I would describe as a hero ingredient. Is it rosemary oil? Um, and maybe you can help us think [00:17:00] about why turnkey manufacturing or how it affects your ingredient, um, guidelines, your ingredient purchasing, that sort of piece of it.
Deanna: Okay.
Abbie: They're actually given a guideline from us as the brand to what we want them to use, what we want them to include within the formulation. They make sure from a research and development perspective that it works. They test it. We do all of our preservative efficacy testing. We do all our standardized testing that we have to go through because we go into FDA regulated facilities, which is really important for us since we're servicing children.
Abbie: Um, and what they do is they look at that composition, they provide us with the best ingredients together with what they know because they're also working with other brands that are in that same kind of mission. So many brands are looking at green friendly ingredients we've been doing it for over two decades, which is really ahead of our time.
Abbie: So we're willing to try different things but we're not willing to sacrifice, if it works. If the product works and if it's safe for our customer. So [00:18:00] those turnkey manufacturing is important because they provide that whole service. It's not in different areas they're providing and developing within their lab based on our spec and our approval.
Abbie: And then they're translating that to the floor to produce it. And they're providing, or they're following a spec that we give them and what that product should look like at the end. And it's a very tight, tight guidance through quality, um, in the batching process, the production process and the shipping process.
Abbie: So turnkey manufacturing for our side of the business is so important because it allows us to use our resources in other areas to stay cutting edge in front of things and being able to do that quickly.
Deanna: Yeah. Yeah. Did you have anything to add there? Risa?
Risa: No, I think it's just, to me it was almost like it, it's like it was safe right and for us going out to source ingredients. You know, sometimes you just don't know, you know, who you're dealing with and, you know, the batches change, right? And so, um, we always just felt very safe and secure knowing how regulated, you know, our contract manufacturers are and [00:19:00] their, their protocols.
Risa: So they're qualifying standards
Abbie: and they don't disqualify one. They have either a second or third source that's qualified. So in the, if something happens, we can take pride as a company that even during a pandemic, we were not out of stock of anything. Um, we're able to navigate quickly. We're able to keep enough product on hand at our holding warehouse if necessary, but we really work with the best fillers in the industry to get us what we need.
Abbie: And we're, we're really happy with that process. It makes sense for our business.
Deanna: No, that's wonderful. Thank you for sharing all of that. Um, you were saying earlier in the fairy tales, haircare brand is quite widely distributed retail stores, um, drug stores or pharma grocery store chain, but also, um, I believe you're in general merchandise discount stores like target, um, specialty stores, including Alta beauty, um, with TPH kids.
Deanna: Is that a D to C brand?
Risa: It is for now. Uh, we are, we're, we're in H E B in Texas. We did a lovely [00:20:00] test with them for the last few years and, um, it's doing really, really well. Um, so we're hoping to make an announcement in a month or so, right? Um, with a retail, a couple of retail partners. Um, you know, it's really kind of nice to be in the right place at the right time.
Risa: Um, you know, Fairy Tales was and is. What was a struggle in the beginning, you know, people truly didn't understand what we were doing, and why you needed, you know, a 10 bottle of shampoo as opposed to a 299 bottle of, you know, something else. So, you know, the message was just was kind of difficult to get across through the years.
Risa: I mean, you were always so, you know, good to us and, um, but it wasn't, it wasn't easy. So with TBH to be in the right place at the right time. Um, you know, this is, this is a gift for us. So, um, we're really hoping we have some really great partnership announcements in the next couple weeks. [00:21:00] And strategically,
Abbie: we really ahead of our time with.
Abbie: Between skin care and hair care and body care. We wanted to do that, have that learning with our audience and what they thought was, you know, our strongest products in hair, was it skin, was it body, what resonated with the things that needed to be changed so we could fine tune with our audience already and really Keeping that position of being an expert in this field of children's hair care, skincare, and body care.
Abbie: And that was important for us to take those four or five years to spend in the DTC market, to get that feedback specifically before it was distributed, or we could give advice to retailers on what items to take and what made most sense in their sets.
Deanna: Yeah. No, that's an excellent point. I really appreciate that. Abby. It makes good sense to get more fully acquainted with your customer right before you're moving into two big retail partnerships. Um, just for a bit of reference for our listeners, we're recording our conversation in early July. Um, so in terms of these partnership announcements, we'll.
Deanna: Keep our eyes open. [00:22:00] Um, we've, we've mentioned several times that, uh, Fairy Tales, you know, was created and, and now is quite a successful brand for over 25 years. Um, but let me say congratulations. I think that is, is quite an accomplishment. Very impressive.
Risa: Thank you. It's been a long ride.
Abbie: Very
Risa: gratifying. It's so much fun. I, yeah, it is just so much fun. It truly is. I'm, we just, We just have fans, you know, you know, when you're a problem solution based brand and you actually do what you say you're going to do. Um, the feedback is just amazing. We had a customer today who, um, sent a note that they use our sun and swim.
Risa: She has two girls, six and eight that swim all the time. And she said that she doesn't know what's in our conditioner, but she said it is absolute magic. You know, it's like how you come to work and you hear those things, right? It's. It's just a really, it's gratifying. It really is. [00:23:00] Yeah.
Deanna: Oh, I love it. So here on the Cosmo factory podcast, we like to share inspiring conversations with our listeners. I think this has, has certainly, uh, been that, uh, but we also like to think about supply chain innovation here on Cosmo factory. So before we finish up our interview, I'm wondering. If either of you have an example of supply chain innovation, uh, that one or both of the brands has benefited from, Abby, is that a question for
Abbie: That's my Abby. Yes. Um, supply chain innovation is kind of a funny thing because like I mentioned before on the show that we've been doing kind of versions of green natural friendly for the last two decades and working with our suppliers. So we're always having to stay on top of, um, those types of trends and evolutions with natural ingredients.
Abbie: And I would say. You know, we're able to work with suppliers that show us new things that are going on, whether it's a better preservative system, whether it's, you know, being sulfate free, paraben free, whether it's a delivery system. For like an emulsifier or [00:24:00] a pH adjuster, um, We recently just went through a non GMO qualifying process, which is huge.
Abbie: You know, in the media, you hear the importance of some of these different characteristics, which we try to stay on top of because we actually qualify for, for most of the time, you know, it was just like, we're animal friendly, you know, we are vegan, vegan, um, and most of our formulations. So those are some things that we always have to be in development for, but I would say we're really excited because, um, we stay away from aerosols for the most part, it doesn't fit our brand profile.
Abbie: Um, so we've been looking for a dry shampoo and there's been some really interesting innovation that's come down the pike. So we're excited to be jumping into that process because when you're working with children, application process is of the utmost importance. You have to realize how they're going to get in their hair.
Abbie: How easy is it for the parent to do that? And with the different delivery systems with air or dry shampoos. It's been very difficult. You can, you know, go from like a powder base, you can do a foam base, aerosol, [00:25:00] messy. But we actually found a really cool one after we've spent some time and been presented with innovation that could make sense for our brands.
Abbie: We're spending a lot of time in that area. I would say we spend a lot of time in, um, styling products or enhancement products because we're very happy with our shampoo and conditioner formulations. For the most part, they are the same type of base. They do different things based on what is added to them, but their preservative system, their setup and chemistry is the same.
Abbie: Um, but we're always looking for like a refresher spray. That was a new item for us for curly Q line. It's our fastest growing new skew. That we have ever launched. Um, we've sold over a hundred thousand bottles over six months, which is amazing for us. It's just D to C right now, kind of give an idea of where we are with that item.
Abbie: And when we look at innovation, we keep it simple for our customers. We're not going to give a whole bunch of skews to a parent that wants to make life simpler. They want to say, Oh, my daughter has curly hair. Oh, I only need a couple of products, or I have [00:26:00] Detangling issue, which most girls have, I only want to have a couple of products.
Abbie: So we are intentioned to stay with within three or four items. So with curly, we did a refresher spray, which we're finding that children are washing their hair less when they have curly hair. So how do we enhance that girl? How, how do we get them to use fairy tales every day? Help with their style to keep their locks looking great.
Abbie: So that was an item for us. That's been really awesome. I would say those two areas are the biggest. Yeah. And the dry shampoo area is really exciting. I can't tell you, but there should be something new sooner than like coming. Yeah.
Deanna: Wonderful. Wonderful. Well, Risa, Abby, this has been a fascinating interview. I thank you both for joining me on the Cosmo Factory podcast.
Risa: Thank you so much for having us, Deanna. We really appreciate it. I have always appreciated all your support through the years, whether you want to keep that in or not. I want to say you have always been just wonderfully kind to the brand and to me. So thank you. Thank you so much.
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