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Pull up a seat at our table, where badass women from all walks of life—fashion, beauty, design, music, philanthropy, art, and more—come together to share honest stories, serve truths, and dig into the realities of modern womanhood.
Johanna Almstead:
Hello, everyone. I am menu planning for my next guest, and I'm going cocktails. I'm starting out with some martinis. I think she likes a gin martini, but I'm going to do a vodka martini for myself. I'm going to do more like sort of bar snacks as starters today because the meal's pretty hearty. So, I'm going to do just a little bit of cheese and fruit, little tiny cheese and fruit platter. I'm going to do some pickled veggies. I'm going to do some lovely, yummy, salty potato chips. I'm going to do some good roasted salted nuts and just keep it at that. Because for entree, I am going to do a hardy shepherd's pie. I'm going to do all the lovely ground meat and veggies and nice saucy gravy and then cover that with mashed potatoes, and you bake it. And I like to put a little tiny bit of Parmesan cheese on the top to make it crusty. And I'm just going to serve that with a big green salad, big crusty baguette, and I'm going to open a bottle of Châteauneuf-du-Pape with that. I think that'll be nice.
My next guest is a dear friend, part of my chosen family. Sometimes, I feel like she was my first kid, and I adore her immensely, and I am so looking forward to catching up with her because it's been way too long. So, I'm missing her, and I'm looking forward to a little cozy time. So, I hope and know... I actually don't even have to hope. I know you're going to enjoy her story as much as I do, and I can't wait for you to get to meet her. So, let's dig in.
Hello, everyone. And welcome to Eat My Words. Today's super special. I'm really feeling excited because I'm super lucky to have one of my favorite humans and my dearest friends with me today. We've known each other for nearly 20 years. When I was doing the math, I was like, that's a long time. When she started working on my team as a little baby newbie right out of college, she was a new graduate of FIT in New York City and joined our international PR team as a bright-eyed, eager, optimistic fashion baby. Now, nearly 20 years later, she is the head of marketing and brand strategy at VisitBritain/VisitEngland overseeing domestic and international marketing activity that grows demand for Britain's nations and regions and supports place-based growth across England. She's very, very fancy. And she is also a doting daughter, a sister, a loyal friend, an explorer, and a global citizen.
I am lucky to call her a former colleague, a friend, and part of my chosen family. Fun fact, she and I have ridden camels in the deserts outside of Dubai. We have solved many a fashion crisis and have laughed harder than anyone should be allowed to in the workplace. Caitlin Johnson, welcome to Eat My Words.
Caitlin Johnson:
Thank you. Oh my God. I was such a baby when we started together.
Johanna Almstead:
You were a baby, like a teeny, tiny, little baby fashion girl.
Caitlin Johnson:
Like your little chicken.
Johanna Almstead:
Like a little chicken. All the little chickens. Yes. Hi. Thanks for coming.
Caitlin Johnson:
Hi. Thanks for having me. Very exciting.
Johanna Almstead:
I'm so excited for this. Okay. So, you started out in the fashion world. You now are living in Britain, working in Britain. We're going to get into all of that. You're coming to me live from your flat.
Caitlin Johnson:
I am. My tiny flat in London.
Johanna Almstead:
[inaudible 00:03:53].
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Your tiny flat in London. Where would you say your journey began?
Caitlin Johnson:
My journey began, I mean, really I think on my very first international trip abroad, which was quite later in life. I went abroad when I was 15 years old with my family, and we came to London, and we went to Paris. And it was really at that time coming to London when I had this just immediate reaction to the place, and I was like, "Someday I'm going to live here." And I just knew it from the very moment that I kind of stepped out onto the streets right when we arrived, towing our luggage up this escalator with us. And I knew nothing about the place, but I knew that something was going to drive me here ultimately. So yeah, so I think all roads have kind of led me here from that very first moment, that very first trip abroad. Obviously, there were many steps in between, but yeah, there was that initial kind of spark that has got me to the place where I think this is home now.
Johanna Almstead:
This is home. So nice.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. So, you were 15, and where'd you grow up?
Caitlin Johnson:
I grew up in Blacksburg, Virginia, super small town in the southwest part of Virginia. Originally born in Farmville, Virginia, but didn't live there very long. So, most of my, I guess, young teenage years were all spent in Blacksburg. And I was there until I went to college and moved to New York City and went to FIT.
Johanna Almstead:
Yay, go FIT. When did you know you wanted to work in fashion?
Caitlin Johnson:
I did a fashion merchandising class when I was in high school, and I was always really drawn to fashion. I would go to Barnes and Noble on the weekend and buy British Vogue. That was the one magazine I religiously read. Again, there was something about Britain really, really early on for me.
Johanna Almstead:
That's so funny.
Caitlin Johnson:
And my mom, for my birthdays, would take me on shopping trips. We went to the Mall of America when I turned 16, I think it was, and we went on a huge shopping spree.
Johanna Almstead:
Isn't the Mall of America in Minnesota or something?
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. Somewhere like that.
Johanna Almstead:
You went all the way there?
Caitlin Johnson:
We took a plane.
Johanna Almstead:
You took a plane to go to a mall?
Caitlin Johnson:
Yes. To go to a mall.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh my gosh, your mom, that's so cute.
Caitlin Johnson:
And we shopped till we dropped for two days straight, and it was a blast. But I was that girl in high school where I wouldn't wear the same thing twice. I would just mix and match my outfits. I always wanted to have the sense of personal style. I vividly remember wearing pointy-toe, pale pink stilettos.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh. Oh, to high school?
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. Yeah. And I would just wear that casually. I was wearing dresses over jeans before it was a cool thing. It's probably not a cool thing anymore, but it definitely was at one time. So, I just always felt like I was putting things together. I really, really liked that sense of having personal style, but I truly never knew that working in fashion could be a career. It just was such a foreign concept to me, especially from being in a small town. But with my fashion merchandising class, I went to New York on a school trip just with the fashion merchandising students. And we were in New York, and again, there was this buzz about New York where all of a sudden I was like, "Okay, I need to be here. How can I be here?" And one of my friends at the time was applying to the art school for photography, and I started looking into it for fashion, and I saw I could do a degree in fashion merchandising, and I thought, "Hey, why not?"
I always felt like I wasn't the best book smart kind of gal. I wasn't going to be working in science or doing something in math, probably not English.
Johanna Almstead:
Me neither. Same thing.
Caitlin Johnson:
So, I needed to find another route. Yeah. And I got into FIT, and I ended up going up there. I still never knew what a career in fashion looked like, but I decided to study it, figure it out once I got there, and very quickly, I was kind of immersed into all of the different types of opportunities that existed.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. I want to pause there and go back to your outfits in high school for a second because-
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah, of course.
Johanna Almstead:
Were you weird for dressing that way, or were you cool?
Caitlin Johnson:
No. I mean, I think I was a cool kid.
Johanna Almstead:
Were you? Okay.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. I was friends with everyone. I wouldn't say I was part of the cool clique, but I would describe myself as a cool girl in high school, but someone that was super approachable and could be part of any group.
Johanna Almstead:
Because now, currently, I have a teenager as of today, she's a teenager and everyone... And when I say to you, from seventh grade to high school students literally dress exactly the same. They wear all the same outfits.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yes. You told me that. Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
And it breaks my heart.
Caitlin Johnson:
Makes me very sad.
Johanna Almstead:
By the way, they're not even good outfits. Sorry kids, if you're listening. They're not real clothes. They're not real outfits. They're sweatpants or sweat shorts, sometimes a jean, sometimes a jean short, depending on the season, and a kind of dumb tank top and a hoodie. And that's the uniform in our area. And it's beautiful girls, all shapes and sizes, all colors, all great hair, all doing things. They'll have a full face of makeup on. This is the crazy part. Full face of makeup, a full blowout and sweatpants-
Caitlin Johnson:
Hoodie.
Johanna Almstead:
... and a tank top. And it kills me. It kills me.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
It makes me so depressed. And I feel like somebody who was wearing pink stilettos and dresses over jeans, in this particular moment, would be a weirdo in this school, which is so sad to me.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah, I could see that. But I think there's a lot of same sameness even here.
Johanna Almstead:
Is there?
Caitlin Johnson:
I go out, and I see... Yeah, there's the common look of a really baggy jean, a Reebok sneaker, and a halter top that's maybe cropped. I think there is just this thing of a sea of sameness.
Johanna Almstead:
Is this because of social media? Is that why?
Caitlin Johnson:
I think so. Partially. Back then, again, I was ripping editorial pages out of British Vogue or Teen Vogue at the time being like, "I want to editorialize my look." And I did.
Johanna Almstead:
You're like, "I could recreate this Grace Coddington moment? Hold on."
Caitlin Johnson:
100%. And then, came the pink stilettos.
Johanna Almstead:
And you weren't a weirdo?
Caitlin Johnson:
No.
Johanna Almstead:
I mean, stilettos are a big move for high school. I don't think I even wore stilettos in high school.
Caitlin Johnson:
Big move. I wouldn't wear a stiletto now, but in high school, that was the shoe of choice.
Johanna Almstead:
That was the shoe of choice and pink, of all of them?
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. So, I just needed to get that off my chest and talk through that with you because I feel-
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. Yeah. It's important.
Johanna Almstead:
I have a deep love for that little you who was wearing those outfits. And I feel really proud of her for having a point of view that was your own. You know?
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. I honestly feel like I probably had a stronger point of view in my fashion then than I do now. And I think I need to get back to that a little bit.
Johanna Almstead:
A hundred percent. Actually, me too. I was just thinking back. As you were telling that story, I was thinking about my outfit. So, my mom was not a shopper. She was definitely not taking me to Mall of America. And I had to figure out the bargain version of everything. And I was thinking about my first day of school outfit to sixth grade to a new school, middle school. I had bought a double-breasted, mustard yellow and white striped blazer with a very strong shoulder pad.
Caitlin Johnson:
Oh, yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Mm-hmm.
Caitlin Johnson:
Mm-hmm.
Johanna Almstead:
Get there. And then, I wore it with white jeans that were, we used to call it pegged, where you roll the bottom and then roll them up.
Caitlin Johnson:
Oh, yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah?
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
White LA Gear sneakers. And so, I didn't even have a tank top, like a normal tank top. I wanted to wear a wife... We're not supposed to call them that anymore. What do you call them? Like a white tank top. And I didn't have one because we just were not shoppers. My mom didn't... So, I had this weird Florida tank top that was white and had a flamingo on the back or something, and I wore it backwards underneath my yellow and white blazer. I was tricky. It was like a little photo shoot.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. Like mustard yellow. Like bright mustard yellow and white stripes, vertical stripes, double-breasted. Just need you to get that picture.
Caitlin Johnson:
Now, with shoulder pads, you have to remember.
Johanna Almstead:
Yes, with the shoulder pads, and I had a white canvas Gap tote. That was the fanciest thing I owned was like a Gap tote bag. I wore that to my first day of school in sixth grade, and I thought I was the living end. I was like, "Wow."
Caitlin Johnson:
That's a look.
Johanna Almstead:
It was such a look.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Anyway, we might have been friends, you and your pink stilettos and me and my yellow mustard double-
Caitlin Johnson:
Totally. I would have appreciated it for sure back then.
Johanna Almstead:
You would have been like, "Yeah, girl, get it. Get it with your shoulder pads."
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. Nothing filled me with more fear, let me just say, than showing up to school and being even in the same type of trouser as someone else. I used to have nightmares, being in school and being wearing the same white Capri that someone else was wearing. So, I think this is why I really turned on the personal style because I was like, "No one's going to be wearing this kind of look."
Johanna Almstead:
I think so. I think so. I love this for you. I really wish you could do a tutorial for the kids around here because they literally, they'll be on a group chat in the morning deciding that they're all going to wear the same baggy jean with the same tank top from three different stores. There's three different stores that everyone wears the same tank tops for. And then, they'll be like, "Well, you can wear yellow, but I can wear blue, but don't wear blue because I'm going to wear blue." So, they want to dress exactly alike, but not the same color tank top because that would be pushing it too far.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. There's a coordination there, though.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. It's wild. Everybody looks like they're in a boy band. Okay. I've totally digressed from your life, but I just needed to work that out with you because I feel like you also love and appreciate my children, and so you can give them some grace in this moment, but it's really rough. It's really hard for me.
Caitlin Johnson:
I can imagine.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. So, wait. I need to know... This is a good segue to this question because when you were wearing your pink stilettos and your dresses over your jeans, did you have a picture in your mind of what having it all or what success would look like, what grown up success would look like to you?
Caitlin Johnson:
At that point, not really. I mean, I think when I decided that I was going to go to New York, and I first got to New York, my idea of success was like, "I am going to be a fashion director at a high-end magazine," and that was going to be it for me. So, my, I guess trajectory from wearing the dress over the pants to getting to New York was this editorial mindset. I really thought all of a sudden I was like, "Oh my gosh. This is all making sense. I love fashion. I love putting together unique outfits. I'm going to be in magazines." And I did. I started interning in magazines, but for a while, I thought that's going to be my story. But before then, I didn't really have an idea. I was never someone who had this kind of timeline of this is where I'm going to be by this age doing this.
I was a little bit more, even though as planned, I was kind of go with the flow within that. Yeah. So, it's weird.
Johanna Almstead:
So, what was your first internship at a magazine that you got?
Caitlin Johnson:
So, when I was in FIT, I started interning at Teen Vogue when I was a sophomore. So, that was my first internship. I was in the fashion closet at Teen Vogue, which one could think was very glamorous, but you are running packages in and out of that Condé Nast office, working for no money, just straight hustling or-
Johanna Almstead:
You're schlepping. You're literally schlepping garments and shoes and bags and jewelry.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. I was a glorified schlepper, but could not have been happier. It was the best thing that had ever happened to me. I was in the fashion closet, and I was kind of working there almost more so than I was at school. And at the time, I got to be quite close with the fashion director and some of the other fashion editors. And it was at the end of that one semester, and the fashion director asked me if I wanted to stay on and be her assistant intern for that following summer and stay in New York and work full time five days a week for her as an assistant. And I said yes. And then, I worked with her for a long period of time. And then, from there went and worked with the fashion market editor the following semester. And I was at Teen Vogue for almost a year and a half in total between all of my different kind of internship roles with the team.
Johanna Almstead:
It's so funny because this is such a common thread on this podcast too, especially with the fashion girls. Everyone started... Because internships back then were so great and they were so real, you were not just getting busy work. People got jobs. Pretty much everyone was working before they ever graduated from college, which I feel like is so different than now because everybody's hitting... First of all, I don't think people are interning as much as they should anyway. But I feel like it's like people had opportunities because you were hustling all throughout your college.
Caitlin Johnson:
Completely. I mean, the amount that I was working as an intern during that time period, I think truly taught me what it means to be a hard worker. I mean, it set me up for understanding what hard work looks like. And I think that's something that I certainly brought into my career ever since internships. I took part in some amazing opportunities. I was in the room when they would be styling cover shoots. I would go on cover shoots for different months. I was on the Young Hollywood shoot one time when Taylor Lautner was on the cover. And it was at that major moment in time when Twilight was out, and just to be there and be in the room and just part of the mix felt so good. There was so much energy there. Even if I was kind of running around, I was still part of it, and that was amazing.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. Okay. So, then how did you end up with us at Kate Spade? Because I know Julie found you, but I don't remember. She found you through the editors, right? Wasn't it?
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. So, after Teen Vogue, I did a really small stint at, well, one semester at Saks Fifth Avenue as a PR intern. And that was great, but actually it's really funny because after that internship, I thought, "PR is not for me. That's not the field I want to be in."
Johanna Almstead:
Whoops.
Caitlin Johnson:
And I don't know. I didn't have the calling to it like I did in magazines. I was so headstrong on wanting to be in the magazine world. So, after Saks Fifth Avenue, I went to Glamour Magazine. I got an internship there working for the fashion director at the time. And again, another incredible experience. I came in super hot doing all of their fashion week invites and scheduling for the whole kind of senior team, fashion directors.
Johanna Almstead:
So, for people who don't know that, that's like launching a rocket ship and doing brain surgery all at the same time.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. It was wild. So, I came in without knowing any of them, but just coordinating that whole schedule and pretty much almost working five days a week there. So, even though it was supposed to be only a few days, I started doing a few more online classes at FIT so that I could spend more time at the Glamour offices. And again, it's just like where I wanted to be at all times was helping, supporting, being part of the team. So, I was at Glamour. I was there for only one semester, and it was one of the accessories editors at the time, after I graduated and after my internship officially ended, she got the note from you and Julie that at Kate Spade, you were looking for a PR freelancer at the time. It wasn't even a full-time role.
Johanna Almstead:
It was freelance. Right.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. So, she had received that from you, and then she got in touch with me immediately after, and she said, "I think this would be really good for you." And you guys reached out, I think through the recruiter.
Johanna Almstead:
Who was the editor? Who was the editor at the time.
Caitlin Johnson:
Maria. Maria Dueñas Jacobs.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, Maria. Now founder of Super Smalls, amazing brand for kids.
Caitlin Johnson:
Now, founder.
Johanna Almstead:
Now, founder. Shout out to Maria.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh my gosh. That's right. Okay, good.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. So, then you joined as a freelancer.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Gosh, I forgot about that. So, you joined the Kate Spade PR team. We were small, mighty. We were small and mighty.
Caitlin Johnson:
Very.
Johanna Almstead:
And that was crazy. So, we were still in the old offices, right, back then?
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. The very first office. Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. So, that was the time of crazy growth for the brand. And I'm trying to remember. Oh my God. I remember yelling at you on your first day. It wasn't the first day. Do you remember we had-
Caitlin Johnson:
Why did you?
Johanna Almstead:
No, I didn't yell at you, but do you remember? It was very early days. It was when our offices were still upstairs, and we had a style out with Deborah. And you and Julie... Did we have an intern at that? I don't know if we had an intern by then. And you guys were supposed to set up all the product nicely in the room, in the showroom before we come in.
Caitlin Johnson:
We messed it up?
Johanna Almstead:
And I came in, and the shoes were all over the place, and it was not set up.
Caitlin Johnson:
Oh, no. A shoe gate. Yeah, not good.
Johanna Almstead:
Shoe gate. And I was like, "This can never happen again." Oh my God. That's so funny. Anyway, that was very early. And I just remember you being like deer in headlights, terrified. And it didn't ever happen again. That did not ever happen again.
Caitlin Johnson:
Well, only once.
Johanna Almstead:
Only once. You were a very studious employee.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yes, I was.
Johanna Almstead:
Then we only had the other big snafu.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Guys. Guys, we got to talk about it. Are we allowed to talk about it?
Caitlin Johnson:
This is bad.
Johanna Almstead:
This was bad.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. It was bad.
Johanna Almstead:
So, Caitlin was one of the most reliable employees to this day that I've ever had. She was amazing and eager and great at receiving feedback and totally hardworking and above and beyond and ticked and tied and spell checked and all the things all the time. Literally, guys. Literally. And she could go out until 6:00 in the morning and be back at the office at 8:00 in the morning and have done the things, run the reports, set up the showroom, done all the things.
So, we had signed a contract. I'm not going to name names, but we had signed a contract with a big celebrity for a huge amount of money, for a huge campaign and series of events. And it was like a whole many things. It was a big, over a year long contract, big, huge, many million dollar deal. And we were meeting with that person's stylist, who was also a very, very big deal. Big deal. And it was a very early meeting. It was like an 8:00 AM meeting, was it? Was it before? It was like 9:00 AM meeting? I don't know.
Caitlin Johnson:
I think it was 9:00 AM.
Johanna Almstead:
It was 9:00 AM.
Caitlin Johnson:
I think it was 9:00.
Johanna Almstead:
It was 9:00 AM, which is tough. You don't want to have a big meeting on the 9:00 AM. Literally... And this was when Caitlin, you were the main point person on this deal with me.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
You were the one who was running it with me.
Caitlin Johnson:
Right.
Johanna Almstead:
And guys, we get to the showroom to set up in the morning. Crickets. No Caitlin. No clothes were even there.
Caitlin Johnson:
No.
Johanna Almstead:
No clothes had even been brought down. The room was supposed to be set up with rolling racks and everything's supposed to be steamed and all the outfits are supposed to be there. No clothes. No Caitlin.
Caitlin Johnson:
Mannequins are clothesless.
Johanna Almstead:
Mannequins are naked.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Calling frantically. Going straight to voicemail.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Dropped a major ball.
Caitlin Johnson:
Wasn't good.
Johanna Almstead:
It wasn't good.
Caitlin Johnson:
Wasn't good.
Johanna Almstead:
Wasn't good.
Caitlin Johnson:
Wasn't good. And
Johanna Almstead:
You had a big night out. Yeah.
Caitlin Johnson:
I'm going to blame my friend who... I'm just going to pass the accountability here.
Johanna Almstead:
Just throw somebody under the bus. Yeah.
Caitlin Johnson:
I'm going to throw someone else under the bus because she got engaged the night before, my roommate at the time.
Johanna Almstead:
All her fault for getting engaged.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah, it's all her fault. She shouldn't have gotten engaged on that night before. And she shouldn't have had an after party at the Brass Monkey in New York City that didn't close until 4:00 AM. What's a girl supposed to do in those situations when you're just celebrating and happy? And the alarm didn't go off.
Johanna Almstead:
Did not go off.
Caitlin Johnson:
Didn't go off. That was bad.
Johanna Almstead:
That was bad.
Caitlin Johnson:
I think that is the only bad thing I think I've ever done ever in my whole career.
Johanna Almstead:
In your entire life.
Caitlin Johnson:
Truly. I think so.
Johanna Almstead:
It was so astonishing. And then you were so freaked out by your own self that it was almost like being a parent when you don't have to discipline your child because they're so freaked out by it themselves. You were so freaked out, and you were so terrified.
Caitlin Johnson:
You actually didn't say anything to me when I got into the office. You were just already downstairs dealing with it. And I was like, "Oh, this is bad." That's how I knew because we just weren't speaking.
Johanna Almstead:
I couldn't even, because I couldn't wrap my head around how it was just so unlike you. It was so wild.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't good.
Johanna Almstead:
We got through it. That was your big, bad moment. Big, bad moment.
Caitlin Johnson:
That was my big, bad moment. I'll never live it down. No.
Johanna Almstead:
Never. Never.
Caitlin Johnson:
Never.
Johanna Almstead:
Because also, it's so unlike you. I feel like there's people who I know who mess up all the time, and you're just kind of like, "It's part of their personality." This was so unlike you that I just couldn't even wrap my head around it. Seething. I was seething.
Caitlin Johnson:
But to be fair, I remember that I got to the office at 9:00 AM, but obviously everything had to be set up before and that wasn't done, but I was there on time.
Johanna Almstead:
I remember though that the stylist was already there before you got there.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. She might have been. Yeah. She might have been. Who knows?
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, man. Okay. So, you end up staying at Kate for how many years were you there? I
Caitlin Johnson:
Was there for four and a half years, almost five.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. And then you left. And where did you go right after that?
Caitlin Johnson:
Right after that, it was at ABC Carpet & Home.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, that's right. ABC Carpet & Home [inaudible 00:25:50] beautiful.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. In New York, which was like this very soft landing pad for me. It was a moment in time. I was only there for about 14 months, but it was such a different change of pace, I think, coming from Kate Spade and almost exactly what I needed as this kind of transition period, but also working for a really amazing company in a really beautiful space in the heart of New York.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. I think we need to back up. I mean, I've talked about this on the podcast a lot, but the pace at which we worked at Kate Spade was bonkers.
Caitlin Johnson:
Wild.
Johanna Almstead:
Bonkers. For people who don't know it or who have never been in it, we literally... And at that point, you were traveling too. You were traveling with me, or sometimes you were traveling on your own. So, we were often on the road for weeks, sometimes out of every month. We were working late almost every night. We were traveling. We were entertaining. We were psychotic. I don't know. I just think back about that time, and I'm just out of breath the whole time.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Literally, I can feel it in my chest.
Caitlin Johnson:
Just always on the go.
Johanna Almstead:
Just on the go.
Caitlin Johnson:
It was another one though, really similar to being in the magazine world where I think because... You obviously were, too. We're so passionate about what we were doing that I kind of didn't mind at the time for most of it. I was like, "Wait, this is great. I want to be doing it all. I want to be out entertaining and working on the weekend." And I glorified checking my Blackberry all the time and always being on.
Johanna Almstead:
So busy.
Caitlin Johnson:
There was something about that New York, again, like hustle and grind at the time, working there and that fueled me while we were there.
Johanna Almstead:
Well, it was also a very exciting time. It was a very exciting place, and it was a very exciting time for the brand. And it was a lot of really, really, really smart, really, really creative people who were doing cool shit. It wasn't like we were grinding and doing something terrible. We were doing really fun stuff.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. So, then you sort of downshifted in the sense of pace and intensity, stayed at ABC. For people who are not from New York, ABC Carpet & Home... I would say it still is, but it's hard to say. But it used to be the epicenter of New York interior design. It was the place, right? I mean, I remember going shopping there as a kid, not as a kid, but when I was in college and being like, "Someday, I'll be able to afford something in this place."
Caitlin Johnson:
Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
It was super cool, and they worked with artisans from around the world, and they were always the first to kind of have amazing designers and anything. So, that was groovy. And then, where did you go after that?
Caitlin Johnson:
And then after that, I started at my current company, VisitBritain, but working in the New York office, which was really interesting, working for a British brand that was all about British tourism, but from New York. But it's something that, again, very similar to the world of fashion, I never really understood what a role in tourism looked like or that you could have a kind of PR marketing role in tourism, but it popped up on LinkedIn, and I very much at the time was looking at what's the path to get me to the UK. That's what I was focused on.
Johanna Almstead:
That's what I was going to ask. "Were you consciously at that point?" Because I feel when you were working with me, you were conscious of getting international experience and stuff, but you weren't conscious of getting to the UK at that time.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. So, then you shifted more clearly, and you're like, "I want to get to the UK."
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. I was like, "That's my next move." I was starting to be ready to be out of New York. It was really kind of wearing on me. I'd been there for college, obviously then working for almost five years. And I was like, "Okay, I think I'm ready for that next step." And something, again, that I had been wanting to do for ages. So, at first, I actually started looking at jobs directly in London and seeing can I just get a job there? But then I found sponsorship was really hard, and I was just hitting walls. And then when this role came up at VisitBritain that was based in the New York office, I thought, "Wow, this could be an amazing kind of path in terms of getting me to London." And I was very forthcoming with that aspiration and ambition when I had the interview.
I was like, "I love the UK, and I hope that this can be a company that takes me there one day."
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, I love that.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. Because they asked me kind of straight out, "What do you want to do in five years? Where do you want to be?" And at that point, I was very headstrong on, "This is where I want to be, and this is where I want to go. And I hope it can be with you all, and that's why I'm here." And it was only nine months later... So, I got the role, and then nine months later, there was a job opening for an interim position in the UK, and I kind of jumped at that and then the rest is history.
Johanna Almstead:
And now, how many years have you been there?
Caitlin Johnson:
I've been there for nine years in total-
Johanna Almstead:
Oh my gosh.
Caitlin Johnson:
Between, yeah, a year essentially in New York office and then eight years here.
Johanna Almstead:
That's so funny. So, someone who did not, who's one of the most Americana girls I know and who did not want to be a PR girl, now is the head of PR for the entire kingdom.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. That's what I did.
Johanna Almstead:
I love it. I love it. So, for people who don't know, tell us a little bit about what's the best part of your job? What is your favorite part about it?
Caitlin Johnson:
The best part of my job, I mean, I think in terms of what I do is that every single day is different. I've always been really drawn to that in my career that there hasn't been a role that I've been in where I show up and I'm like, "I know exactly what I'm doing at 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM." Any day is different, and there are always kind of curve balls. So, that keeps me really excited and has kept me here for the nine years because my roles have changed almost every two years whilst I've been here.
But I think the best part is that I'm promoting a holiday essentially. What an amazing thing to promote as a brand. It's not a product. It's not about necessarily commercial sales. It's about brand building for Britain and how do you essentially market Britain as an amazing holiday destination?
And so, it's all about highlighting the product and the people and the stories. And it's all the things that I love to do personally when I think about what do I want to do when I plan a trip. I think about that in terms of, "Okay, well, how am I going to entice someone to come to Britain versus go somewhere else?" So yeah, that's what makes it really exciting and, I think, a very unique place to work.
Johanna Almstead:
I want to talk a little bit about your lifestyle there because I am super jealous of it, but I just want to hear your perspective on what having a big job in the UK versus having a big job in New York feels like. Just what are the things about being a working woman in the UK that feel different than in New York?
Caitlin Johnson:
I think there's a much better work-life balance generally in the UK and certainly at my company. There's a real emphasis on individual health and wellbeing and making sure that people aren't overworked or too stressed or have too much on, and there's a proactive and conscious effort about checking in on people. And maybe that's happening more so now in New York, but again, when we were grinding 12 hours a day, that just wasn't the case growing up. So, I think that's the biggest change working here. And I've also realized I need to proactively set boundaries too, in terms of how I work. And I think I've changed that more so myself and set that versus it being given to me or set for me. So, realizing when I'm the most productive and just how I work best and making sure I'm not checking emails all the time and reaching out to my team at off hours.
And that, I think, also helps to maybe top down as a manager and a leader of my team, make sure that they don't feel like they need to be doing those things, emailing off hours, et cetera. So, trying to lead by example. But yeah, working world here, I mean, it's mostly work-life balance.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. And then, also your proximity to fun places to travel to. I feel like that's the other part that feels like-
Caitlin Johnson:
Oh, absolutely. My personal life here, for sure, is that proximity to Europe is incredible. I mean, now we'll just go away for a weekend or two nights or Paris for the day. I genuinely don't take that for granted. It's one of the absolute best parts of being here is that ability to travel around and be so mobile. And I think everyone over here... It was funny. When I first came to the UK, I noticed that all of the questions, the initial question someone would ask you is, "Well, where have you traveled to recently? Or where did you travel to last?" And I remember it was so different than typically in New York or in the US it would be like, "Well, what do you do for work?" This idea that life is more than work, it's like life first, and you work to live versus living to work. And that kind of shift was just so fundamental. And I think it runs through the whole place being here.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. I feel like that so many of my friends who are in the UK, I feel like you can see this kind of just true respect and real attention to life outside of work. I think that that's so not American.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
America has this really intense focus on what we do and how productive we are and not how we're living. You know?
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah, completely.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. So, you're living this totally... Maybe it's not so different, though. I'm thinking of you and your little stilettos buying British Vogue. I mean, you bought British Vogue, and now you live there.
Caitlin Johnson:
It's full circle.
Johanna Almstead:
Do you think back on any moments in your life where you're like, "Wow, if I hadn't done that, my life would have taken a really big turn"? Are there moments where you're like, "That was a good decision."
Caitlin Johnson:
I think there were definitely moments of resilience younger, where I though my world was collapsing, based on a few things that happened that have totally changed the, again, trajectory of where I've gone. First one was where I got into college. I really wanted to go to college at UGA in Georgia. And I wanted to be part of the big school with the sorority and all the things, and I ended up not getting in. And I'd also applied to FIT. I knew I'd gotten into FIT, but I though, "No, Southern school is going to be my place." And I was still thinking about studying fashion there, but very different.
Johanna Almstead:
Right.
Caitlin Johnson:
So, I didn't get in. I though my world was crumbling, but then, obviously I pivoted, and I embraced New York, and that turned out to be an incredible decision, led me to internships, et cetera. But then when I got to New York and I was interning in my last internship at Glamour, there was a role that came up as a fashion assistant.
And again, I thought, "This is perfect. I am in the prime place to be in this role. No one else can be in it." That was my immediate kind of next step. I had made such good relationships there. And I remember I didn't get the role, and I thought, "What was this all for? This was the place for me. And if I don't get this... " My idea was like, "Well, where am I going to get a role?" Because this was the thing.
Johanna Almstead:
You were already in. Yeah, you already had the in.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah, this was the thing. I had the in, and it's so hard to have the in that world anyway. But again, I didn't get that role. And then, one of the editors, obviously, sent my resume to you guys or you guys connected. And then, I had the Kate Spade interview and that changed my life, being at Kate Spades.
And again, it took me down a completely different path. It gave me all of this international experience. It brought back that love for wanting to live and work abroad and work with different markets and cultures. And if I wasn't there, I don't know if I would be here. So, it was like those two kind of key things that happened where I just feel like the path, maybe it would have still gotten here, but it would have been very different if it had gone my way at the time.
Johanna Almstead:
I love that. I love thinking... I was just talking about this with one of my nephews because he's a senior in high school, and he's applying to very different types of colleges. He's got like five or six, and they're very different. It's like the equivalent of UGA and FIT kind of. And I said, "Whoa, that's so wild," because I sort of had the same thing when I went to college, too. I had applied to all these liberal arts schools in the Northeast and Vermont and whatever, and then FIT and NYU. And I always think choosing to dig into fashion and to not even... I was like, "I'm not even going to go to NYU. I'm going to go to FIT. I'm going to do fashion. That's what I want to do." Put me on such a trajectory. You know?
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
And your trajectory at UGA would have been so different probably.
Caitlin Johnson:
So different. Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
It's wild. So, I think it's funny because I always say, "It doesn't really matter where you go to college because you can always change your mind and you can always... " Whatever. But then I also think about it is that first step in a big trajectory of your life.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah, exactly. And it's the connections you make that I wouldn't have made necessarily at the right time that I needed to make them that again led me to different things.
Johanna Almstead:
Right. Okay. So, you've achieved a lot of things. What is something that you're most proud of?
Caitlin Johnson:
Something that I'm most proud of, I think is taking the leap to being here. I did that alone as a young 29-year-old and moved my whole life overseas. And I think that was major. And I sometimes don't, I think, maybe give myself enough credit for that to really make the jump. And again, it was this point in my life when I think a lot of my friends were starting to settle down and have families. And I knew at that time, that wasn't my next step. There was something else in it for me, and everyone's on their own timelines, which is absolutely fine, but I just knew I needed to change, but in a different way. So, I think that success of moving over here and just building a life for myself here, I'm really, really proud of.
Johanna Almstead:
You should be. That's good.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Is there anything that you once believed about yourself that you've since outgrown that you no longer believe about yourself?
Caitlin Johnson:
I once believed... Well, I mean, I think I've always had a bit of imposter syndrome in me. I've always though, "Well, I'm too young to be doing this," or to, I don't know, have a say in whatever it is, X, Y, Z. Or I don't know, just have a place at the table, to be honest. And I don't really know why that is because I so often did have a seat at the table. And for some reason, it's taken a while for me to actually believe like, "Oh my gosh. I'm old enough now. I'm 37.
Johanna Almstead:
I've earned this seat.
Caitlin Johnson:
I'm definitely old enough now. I'm not a 22-year-old or an 19-year-old in college grinding. But yeah, I think I'm just now starting to actually believe that I can, again, make it on my own, and I'm not this kind of young-minded person who can't have a voice. Everyone can have a voice, and I did, and I was able to use it, but I'm glad I'm starting to grow out of that more and, I think, have more self-belief, generally.
Johanna Almstead:
I think it's interesting that you felt that way because as somebody who was your manager, I always felt like you carried yourself like you believed in your voice.
Caitlin Johnson:
I definitely have this kind of, what's that analogy, of like the duck swimming on the surface? They're really calm above the water and chaos underneath. That's kind of like how I felt generally in carrying myself. I would always come off as cool, calm, confident, but internally, I would be like a ball of anxiety, and that anxiety was like, "Am I good enough to be here?" I don't know why I thought that, but I could communicate externally differently, but inside, that's how I felt.
Johanna Almstead:
Interesting. I hate that. I hate that for you. And I hate that for so many women because I feel like so many of us, our default setting is, "Am I good enough to be here?"
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
And dudes very rarely think, are they good enough to be anywhere?
Caitlin Johnson:
1,000%. So, if I could go back, I'd be like, "You are good enough. Have the self-belief now because your managers, your peers, everyone around you is saying that you're good enough." The amount of opportunities that I got through you and through Deborah and others at the time at Kate Spade were immense. No 23-year-old should have had those kind of experiences, but I did. And yeah, I wish that I probably, even though I came off externally again as being really on it and I was, I wish I felt that.
Johanna Almstead:
Wish you believed it. Right.
Caitlin Johnson:
And I wish I believed it.
Johanna Almstead:
Because we believed it. We gave you those opportunities because we did believe it. We knew you could do it.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
It's funny. I was having this conversation. I think I talked to her about it when she came on the podcast, but with Kyle, who was my former boss and she was head of our department. And I was thinking about this time when we had a different boss who was running the department and that person left. And I remember sitting in Kyle's office and saying, "Well, who's going to run the department?" And she was like, "You're going to." And I was like, "What do you mean I'm going to?" She's like, "No, you're going to run this department." And I said, "I don't think I can." And she said, "That doesn't matter what you think. I think you can." And having someone say that to me so directly and having someone vocalize their belief in me was so important in that moment because I definitely didn't believe it about myself.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Right?
Caitlin Johnson:
I mean, it's incredible though for us to have those people, like you were exactly the same for me, to believe in us when we couldn't believe in ourselves. And I think it's also, I'm so motivated by words of affirmation and appreciation. And I think that there's something in that around, "So, what you're saying... "
Johanna Almstead:
Is that your love language?
Caitlin Johnson:
It's actually quality time, but it's followed quite swiftly by words of affirmation.
Johanna Almstead:
Words of affirmation. Okay.
Caitlin Johnson:
But someone saying like, "You've done a really good job," or I don't know, anything positive that just reaffirmed something to me, again, that I might not have felt like I should be doing whatever it was. But if I came off in a positive way then, and it was appreciated and recognized, then that made me feel great.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. I feel like I wasn't always very good at that because we were so busy, and I was so overwhelmed all the time. But I try now as a parent to do it. And I try to do it with my team now that I have, but I definitely feel like there were times in my career when I didn't. Not that I didn't appreciate people. I did appreciate them very much. I just didn't tell them that I appreciated them as much as I did. And I think that's, as a manager and as a human, we need to do that more often.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. But you used gift giving and that was appreciated too.
Johanna Almstead:
I do give good gifts.
Caitlin Johnson:
You give great gifts.
Johanna Almstead:
Is that your other love language?
Caitlin Johnson:
No, it's not, but I did like it.
Johanna Almstead:
Really. [inaudible 00:45:07] good gifts.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
I had a boss a long time ago before who also, she always gave really good gifts and I thought that was really a big deal. And I'm also, for me, gifts are in my love language. I think they might be my number one, giving and receiving.
Caitlin Johnson:
You're good at it.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. So, is there anything that you actually said no to that you wish that you said yes to in your life or along your journey?
Caitlin Johnson:
Anything I've said no to? I don't know because I really tried to live by a yes and mentality versus a no. And I think you know that. Again, when we were working together and when I was still so young, even if I didn't believe I should be doing something, if you guys asked me to do it, I would do it. And I think that's why I was the first to pick up and go on all these international trips when others might not have wanted to do it, even though I was probably not in the pecking order to be the next two, but I was like, "Sure, I'll go. I'll fly to Shanghai in a week's time and jump on a plane to Dubai and launch the brand in Tokyo." Because I wanted to be part of it and in the mix and just had that strong work ethic, I always said yes.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
You're not alone on this podcast. I think there are a lot of people. There's a reason why people become the people they are is because they say yes, right?
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
I think that that's always been... And I used to actually say that about that company at the time. I used to say it was like such a yes place because we would come up with the craziest ideas, and people would just say yes. And so, it sort of was in the ether at the time too, I think. Taking risks and just saying yes even when you're not really sure you're ready or when you feel like there's more to lose. I don't know. I feel like I'm trying to actually capture that again back in my life because I feel like there's a time where I got less bold about saying yes to things because I became a parent and tired and overwhelmed and 17 jobs and whatever. And now I'm like, "No, we got to go back to the yes and."
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah, totally.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. So, now you're sort of living your dream life, which is amazing. You've made this life that that girl who was reading British Vogue probably didn't even fully imagine what that was. Buying a flat in London, doing the thing, getting your, what is it? Residency? No.
Caitlin Johnson:
Residency now, but citizenship next year.
Johanna Almstead:
Citizenship next year. Whoa, so cool. So, what are you dreaming of next? What's next up for you?
Caitlin Johnson:
It's so crazy because I've always had my what's next in my mind. I've known, without knowing exactly what it was, I've known what I've been working towards, whether that be a move or something in fashion or a type of career. And now that I've been here and I've been doing this for so long, I really don't know what's next. I went on a four week, well, my version of a sabbatical in June-
Johanna Almstead:
Dreamy.
Caitlin Johnson:
... which was amazing. And I spent three and a half weeks in Italy and ended in France and then a few just days in London pottering around. And I really wanted to use that time to just try to clear my mind to be like, "What do I want to do with my life? What does it look like?" And I didn't necessarily figure it out then, but I think something that I was drawn to was I really want to do something that's creative again, whether that's personally on the side. I don't know if that's a full-time work thing, but I want to be creative again. I want to use my hands and be off screens. And I don't know, just doing something that stimulates my mind that's not looking at whether it be a laptop screen, an iPhone screen, or a TV screen all day. And that trip really kind of brought me back to that place of being very grounded.
And I did a cooking retreat in central Sicily where, again, obviously using my hands. So, there's something in that for me, but I don't know what that looks like yet.
Johanna Almstead:
I'm seeing hands in dirt. I'm seeing hands in clay. I'm seeing hands in food. [inaudible 00:49:13].
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I am going to have a garden at my new flats. I'm definitely going to be gardening, that's for sure. [inaudible 00:49:21]. But again, that could just be a personal hobby and something that's good for me.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Maybe we need to create an Eat My Words retreat-
Caitlin Johnson:
For sure.
Johanna Almstead:
... where we do creative things with our hands, and we eat lots of food, and we get women together.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. I think that'd be brilliant.
Johanna Almstead:
But like for real. Guys.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
I mean, for real. I think this is real. Okay. Writing it down.
Caitlin Johnson:
Write it down.
Johanna Almstead:
Writing it down.
Caitlin Johnson:
I'll help you put together your itinerary. I'll plan. I'll organize it all for you.
Johanna Almstead:
I think we need to do that.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. Happy to.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. Yay. Okay.
Caitlin Johnson:
Love it.
Johanna Almstead:
So, now we're at the very, very exciting time of my lightning round of questions. So, I feel like this is funny because I feel like there was so much talk about food. Even though we were working in the fashion industry, we had lots of funny laughs about the kinds of foods that people were eating at different times. So, we're going to get in there. Right?
Caitlin Johnson:
We did.
Johanna Almstead:
Particularly if they were hungover after a big night out or... Anyway, so ultimate comfort food.
Caitlin Johnson:
Ultimate comfort food, anything that's like a pastry baked good. I've recently started making cinnamon rolls. Again, back to doing things with my hands. And so, a homemade cinnamon roll, I won't pass by.
Johanna Almstead:
Delicious. I need to give you my mom's recipe for sticky buns.
Caitlin Johnson:
Oh.
Johanna Almstead:
They're the most delicious cinnamon rolls ever.
Caitlin Johnson:
Okay.
Johanna Almstead:
When you were little, little before maybe like the stilettos, what did you want to be when you grew up when you were little?
Caitlin Johnson:
I never really had something that I wanted to be, which sounds weird.
Johanna Almstead:
You just wanted to wear the outfits.
Caitlin Johnson:
I just wanted to wear the outfits. I wanted to create good looks. That's what I cared about.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
What is something you're really good at?
Caitlin Johnson:
Something I'm really good at, I think, is giving people time. I think I'm really present, and I'm really present with my friends and my family. And as I said, one of my love language is quality time, and that's something that I give, too. So, I think giving time is one of the most genuine and generous things, I think, you can give, and I like to think I'm good at that.
Johanna Almstead:
That's so lovely. I like that. I would like more time of yours for me, please.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. Let's do it.
Johanna Almstead:
What is something you're really bad at?
Caitlin Johnson:
Trivia.
Johanna Almstead:
Really?
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. Yes. Do not take me to a pub quiz. You will not want me on your team.
Johanna Almstead:
Really?
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. I'm awful at trivia. I don't know. My mind can't retain facts.
Johanna Almstead:
Is it because you're not a native Brit, and so you're not getting pop culture or those kind of cultural references maybe?
Caitlin Johnson:
Oh, no. This could be American trivia, too. Any kind of trivia.
Johanna Almstead:
Really?
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. I'm really bad at it.
Johanna Almstead:
Are you sure?
Caitlin Johnson:
I swear.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay.
Caitlin Johnson:
I swear.
Johanna Almstead:
I'm weirdly, really good at it.
Caitlin Johnson:
I love that for you.
Johanna Almstead:
And I don't know if I'd be good at it in the UK, but I was raised by a family who played Trivial Pursuit all the time as a kid. And my dad was like a crazy brain, and so I just learned a bunch of weird shit. Anyway, I'm really good at it.
Caitlin Johnson:
I [inaudible 00:52:17] retain anything. I can't. I just can't. Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. Okay. Maybe we can work on that for you. Okay. So, what is your favorite word?
Caitlin Johnson:
My favorite word, probably more like corporate speak, but I do use this in my every day, is zeitgeist.
Johanna Almstead:
I love the word zeitgeist.
Caitlin Johnson:
You do?
Johanna Almstead:
Yes. I love that word so much. And I used it the other day with one of my daughter's friends, and she looked at me like I had 17 heads, and I had to explain to her.
Caitlin Johnson:
I love it.
Johanna Almstead:
It's such a good word. I like the way it sounds. I like the Z and the T and the G and the F.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Yes. Zeitgeist.
Caitlin Johnson:
And it's like this intangible thing that's around us.
Johanna Almstead:
Yes.
Caitlin Johnson:
So, yeah. Love it.
Johanna Almstead:
I told my daughter's friend that she had a really... She's like one of those kids that weirdly has their finger on the pulse, just like stuff.
Caitlin Johnson:
Just knows things.
Johanna Almstead:
And I was like, "You're really good at pulling things from the zeitgeist." And she was like, "What are you saying?"
Caitlin Johnson:
She had no idea.
Johanna Almstead:
Anyway, such a good word. Okay. That is my favorite word anyone said on this podcast, I think. Okay. So, what's your least favorite word?
Caitlin Johnson:
Well, I don't have word or phrase. FOMO or fear of missing out, just because it doesn't mean anything to me. I have no fear of missing out ever. I don't understand.
Johanna Almstead:
I'm good. [inaudible 00:53:35].
Caitlin Johnson:
Missing out is sometimes great. Yeah. Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. Least favorite food, like deal breaker, because I feel like you're a pretty adventurous eater, especially now that you've been living across the pond. What will you not eat or do you really hate?
Caitlin Johnson:
So, I really will try anything, but I dislike beets.
Johanna Almstead:
What?
Caitlin Johnson:
I know.
Johanna Almstead:
Really?
Caitlin Johnson:
And I really want to like them because they're so healthy.
Johanna Almstead:
Of all the weird gross foods that you've eaten in the world, beets are what you decide not to?
Caitlin Johnson:
Beets. They take over the whole plate. Yeah. They infiltrate the taste of everything, and I can't get on board. I can't.
Johanna Almstead:
So, I guess you're not going to be growing beets in your new garden.
Caitlin Johnson:
No, but this is the thing is anytime I don't like something, I'll try it in multiple different ways until I like it. I did that with olives.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, that's good.
Caitlin Johnson:
Because there's so many different types of olives. Yeah. And I really didn't like olives for many years, but then I just-
Johanna Almstead:
You didn't like olives when you worked with me because both you and Julie didn't like olives, and it felt like a personal affront to me, actually.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. But then I was like, "This is annoying to not like olives because they're everywhere," and they are delicious. So yeah, I just need to train my palate.
Johanna Almstead:
How did you end up liking olives? What was the gateway drug of olives for you?
Caitlin Johnson:
I mean, probably a blue cheese stuffed olive and a martini.
Johanna Almstead:
No, gross.
Caitlin Johnson:
Probably, but...
Johanna Almstead:
Oh God. All right. Whatever. It got you there. I'm not going to judge.
Caitlin Johnson:
Just leave it.
Johanna Almstead:
Those are my least favorite things on the planet.
Caitlin Johnson:
No.
Johanna Almstead:
And if anyone even tries to put one of those fuckers in my martini, I lose my shit.
Caitlin Johnson:
You're done.
Johanna Almstead:
No. Do not put cheese in my cocktail. That's disgusting. No.
Caitlin Johnson:
True.
Johanna Almstead:
Hell to the no. But okay, for you, because it got you there -
Caitlin Johnson:
The gateway.
Johanna Almstead:
... I'm going to get on board because it was a gateway olive for oliving. Okay. Ooh, this is going to be a good one. Best piece of advice you've ever received?
Caitlin Johnson:
Best piece of advice was from a friend, and it was about not taking on the energy of others. So, something that she would often say to me is like, "I'm not taking that on." And I think her advice to me was like, "You don't have to take on what someone else is feeling at any given time, whether it's a reaction to something you've done or if it has nothing to do with you and it's just how they're acting, you get to choose what you take on and what you don't." And I loved that because I'm someone who, I don't know, I take on other people's energy really quickly. I have a really guilty conscience. If I haven't done anything wrong, but someone is talking to me weird, I'm like, "Oh my God, what did I do?" And I really overanalyze it. So, I've constantly thought about, "I'm not taking that on." And yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
I love that for you. Why do you think you have a guilty conscience? Because I definitely did too, growing up. I don't feel like I have one as much anymore.
Caitlin Johnson:
I don't know. I was looking into-
Johanna Almstead:
Is it because you fucked up that day and didn't come to the showroom on time? Is that what it is?
Caitlin Johnson:
Maybe. It just blinkered with me. I looked up. I was like, "Is this a trait of a Gemini?" Because I wanted to know, but it's not.
Johanna Almstead:
Why do you think that is?
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. I mean, maybe because I do overanalyze things, like that is trait of a Gemini. So, if I over analyze a situation and I think something that maybe isn't real or the truth, that I don't know, gives me anxiety.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
I would like you to not have a guilty conscience anymore.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
It's like a heavy weight to bear for your life.
Caitlin Johnson:
It is, but that's why-
Johanna Almstead:
Who needs it? Yeah.
Caitlin Johnson:
Now, I'm just like, "I'm not taking that on." It does help me. Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Good. I like that for you. Oh, I'm so curious about this one. Okay. If your personality were a flavor, what would it be? Because I have certain specific ideas about what it would be, but I would like to know what you think it would be.
Caitlin Johnson:
Oh, I want to know what you think it would be. A peach is my favorite fruit. So, though I don't like the flavor necessarily, I would say a peach. I like flavored peach things. I don't want peach syrup or anything, but I love a peach.
Johanna Almstead:
An actual peach.
Caitlin Johnson:
An actual peach. So, my flavor is an actual peach because there's something very high low about a peach. You can find the peach at a farmer's market that you're eating off the street or on a Michelin star table as like a beautiful dish. I think it's very adaptable, and I like to think that that is me.
Johanna Almstead:
I like it. It's also a little juicy, which is kind of good.
Caitlin Johnson:
Super juicy. Yeah. Approachable, juicy, adaptable.
Johanna Almstead:
I like it. I like it. And delicious. Okay.
Caitlin Johnson:
Delicious.
Johanna Almstead:
What was your first paid job you ever had in your whole life? First time you ever exchanged labor for money?
Caitlin Johnson:
I worked at a dry cleaners.
Johanna Almstead:
Of course, you did.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. Of course.
Johanna Almstead:
Just like schlepping people's garments.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yep. Maybe that's the love of fashion too, early on. I was tagging people's clothes that needed to be laundered, and I worked... It was our local dry cleaners that was run by my neighbor. Still there. Still my parents' local dry cleaners. Fantastic.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah.
Caitlin Johnson:
And I worked the front desk and tagging clothes, and I would go and then bring obviously, the laundered clothes out to the drive through cars. And that's what I did after school and on the weekends.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh my God. I love that. I love that for you. I feel about the dry cleaners a little bit. Most of the time I get my dry cleaning actually picked up and delivered, but sometimes when I mess it up and stuff, I need to go in, and I always, whenever I go in, I'm so excited because I'm like, I love seeing what people drop off. It's the same way I feel about seeing what's in people's grocery carts-
Caitlin Johnson:
Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
... because I make up all kinds of stories. And one day, I was there, and this guy, the person had left, so I didn't get a view of the person, but this guy was putting tags on a bunch of kind of pleather, bondage-like outfits.
Caitlin Johnson:
Oh my gosh.
Johanna Almstead:
And I was like, "I'm so mad that I missed the person who just dropped this off."
Caitlin Johnson:
Oh, the stories.
Johanna Almstead:
The stories.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. You did get a real insight into someone based off what they dropped off. That's true.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. This is going to be an interesting one for you because I feel like we're very thoughtful about your words, but have you ever had a moment in your life when you've had to eat your words?
Caitlin Johnson:
The only times when I've really felt that I've had to eat my words are when I haven't said something in the moment when I should have. I find I eat my words when I bottle stuff up, and if I bottle something up and then it builds some kind of resentment, frustration in me, then how that eventually comes out is not how I would want it to come out. That's happened in relationships.
Johanna Almstead:
So, [inaudible 01:00:07] you shouldn't have eaten your words. You should have said your words instead of eating them.
Caitlin Johnson:
Correct.
Johanna Almstead:
Right.
Caitlin Johnson:
Because I ate them-
Johanna Almstead:
You vomit them up later.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. It's not good for anyone.
Johanna Almstead:
Not good for anyone. Learning to do that. Okay. If you had to eat one food for the rest of your life, all day, every day, but it doesn't need to nutritionally sustain you, it's a magic world where you just get to eat what you want, what would you eat every day?
Caitlin Johnson:
Perfect. Cheese.
Johanna Almstead:
Cheese? Any specific cheese? Just cheese of all the category.
Caitlin Johnson:
Truly cheese of all kinds in all forms. But there is this one type of cheese here in London. I think it's called the Old Groendal, guendal, something like that. We call it the Old G, that's just how we know it. You buy it at La Fromagerie in London, this cheese shop, and it is truly the best cheese on earth. It's delicious.
Johanna Almstead:
I'm going to eat that cheese.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
I'm going to come in there and eat some cheese.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. Do it.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. Where is your happy place?
Caitlin Johnson:
One of my happy places, I don't know if it's the be all, end all happy place, but is where I went for my cooking retreat this summer. So, in Central Sicily, beautiful place called Anna Tasca Lanza, which was just in the middle of nowhere and was one of the most magical, special, I think, experiences of my life. Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
I would like to go there, too. What do you wear when you feel like you need to take on the world and your pink stilettos are at the dry cleaners? Just kidding.
Caitlin Johnson:
I know. I wish I could come back actually, then I could really take on the world. My colleague always didn't make fun of me, but I think jokingly always called me Miranda Priestly when I would walk into the office with my black Kate Spade cape on. And that I think is my most boss look that I've worn. It's like the cape really.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. Is it the one that has the gold and black enamel buttons?
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. I still have it. I've kept it, and I whip out the cape when I'm really looking to make a statement.
Johanna Almstead:
I like it.
Caitlin Johnson:
So, I think it's going to be a cape and then comfort. I have to feel comfortable to feel my best and probably wearing something like high-low. That gives a sense of personal style.
Johanna Almstead:
Got it. Are you wearing trousers with the cape? Are you wearing a dress with the cape?
Caitlin Johnson:
Well, I've been known to wear a long maxi skirt with the cape and a chunky boot and maybe a casual sweater underneath the crew neck.
Johanna Almstead:
Got you. I like it.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Most memorable meal you've ever had?
Caitlin Johnson:
Oh, gosh. So many. I think I'll take it back to Italy. One of my first trips post lockdown and when we were in COVID, but coming out of it, I went to Italy with my friend group here, and we had the most amazing meal in Tuscany. We went to the Belmont Hotel and did our high, and then we went to this really small village that was kind of a no name, no tourists were there, and just had the most lovely meal outside drinking wine made by a local maker that was eight euros eating the most incredible pasta. And that's always stayed with me, that trip in particular, because the meal is mostly about the people around you that really create it. And so, it was both the food, the setting, and the people all together that was amazing.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. Speaking of magical meals. Dream dinner party guest list. Everyone's going to come if you invite them. You don't have to know them. They can be dead or alive. Who are you inviting to your dinner party?
Caitlin Johnson:
I think I would want to create a literal wellness event/women's entrepreneurship dinner in the modern age. So, I'm obsessed with Mel Robbins and the Let Them Theory. And so, I would definitely have Mel there because that has changed my life. I think that's a little bit of that not taking on someone else's energy is very Let Them Theory-esque. So, she would be there. I would also have Emma Greed. So, as a business woman-
Johanna Almstead:
She seems like a good time.
Caitlin Johnson:
She's a good time. She's really made it in the industry. Again, she had that hustle. Just read her book, and I absolutely loved that, so I definitely want to just learn from her. I'd probably have my grandmother who I never met, so my mom's mom. And she's the only grandparent I never met. She passed away right before I was born. So, maybe she'd be more for a one-on-one versus a dinner party with the others in how she would do, but maybe she'd be great.
But yeah, I would love to just learn a little bit about my mom through her eyes and obviously her life because we never got to chat. Maybe Trevor Noah.
Johanna Almstead:
Ooh.
Caitlin Johnson:
I love Trevor Noah. Yeah. As someone to throw in the mix. And I think for me, he talks so excessively about cultural moments of the time and politics and what's going on, so I think he would add a lot to our conversation, multidimensional conversation.
Johanna Almstead:
I like it.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
I like it. Okay. Go-to mechanism. Coping mechanism on a bad day.
Caitlin Johnson:
Going for a walk.
Johanna Almstead:
Going for a walk.
Caitlin Johnson:
Fresh air walk.
Johanna Almstead:
Got it.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. Last supper, you are going onto the next realm. It's not sad, though. This is a really celebratory evening. What are you eating at your last supper?
Caitlin Johnson:
A cheeseburger. Thousand percent.
Johanna Almstead:
How do you like your cheeseburger cooked?
Caitlin Johnson:
So, I like it medium rare, which I know is dicey, not a smash burger, but not too thick either.
Johanna Almstead:
Like a big, fat, dicey burger? Okay.
Caitlin Johnson:
No, in the middle. Like a perfect in the middle, maybe from 4 Charles in New York with thick crispy bacon.
Johanna Almstead:
Mmm. The burger.
Caitlin Johnson:
There's some kind of special sauce on the burger. They're good, crispy, thin, skinny fries. And that's my going out meal.
Johanna Almstead:
What are you drinking with that meal?
Caitlin Johnson:
I'm drinking a gin martini, Tanqueray 10 with a twist.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
You and Jules are both twist girls, like a twist.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. Lastly, last question. You don't need to know it tomorrow. You don't need to have known it yesterday, but what is one thing that you know for sure right now in this moment? What feels true to you?
Caitlin Johnson:
That the universe has my back and that whatever is meant for me won't pass me by.
Johanna Almstead:
Ooh, I love that.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
That's a good note to end on. I like it.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yeah. I feel it deeply. Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
That's optimistic and very grounded at the same time. That makes me happy for you.
Caitlin Johnson:
Thank you.
Johanna Almstead:
Yay.
Caitlin Johnson:
Yay.
Johanna Almstead:
Well, thank you so much for joining me here today. This has been a blast. It's making me miss you so much. I wish you were here in my office with me.
Caitlin Johnson:
Miss you a lot.
Johanna Almstead:
And I know your story's going to inspire so many girls that are out there wearing their pink stilettos and their jeans with their dresses over it. And I know that they're going to be so moved by it. So, thank you, thank you, thank you for joining me.
Caitlin Johnson:
Thank you for having me. I miss you, too.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, that was so fun. I could use 17 more hours with her. I want her now to just cozy up on my couch and drink wine for the rest of the night is what I would like. So,, I hope you guys enjoyed that episode. If you know somebody who you think might be inspired by her story, please send them this episode. You can copy it in your media player. You can go to the little menu on the side that says share this episode. You can copy the link and you can text it to someone. You can email it to someone. You can DM it to someone. You can post it on your own social media channels, which we love. If you're not doing so already, please follow us on Instagram and TikTok. We are at eatmywordsthepodcast. And as always, we are so grateful for you for tuning into us and coming back week after week and listening to our stories.
So, thank you so much, and I will catch you on the next one.
This Eat My Words podcast was created, produced, and directed by me, Joanna Olmstead. Our sound editor is Isabel Robertson and our social media manager is Isabella Butros.