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What happens when the spotlight takes you away from the music that made you want to step onstage in the first place?
Backstage at High Sierra Music Festival, Paul McDonald joins Tami and Dennis for a candid, funny, and heartfelt conversation about finding his way back. From an unexpected American Idol audition to the whirlwind of Hollywood, Paul reflects on the experiences that shaped him—and the sense of belonging he’s found with his band, the Mourning Doves.
He shares the personal story behind “Dark Side” and So Long to the Dark Side, how losing his mother brought him back to the records he grew up with, and why kindness matters as much as talent when choosing the people beside him on the road. Along the way: songwriting with Andy Frasco and friends, jamming with Lebo, and some unforgettable American Idol backstage encounters.
A conversation about letting go, finding your people, and getting back to the music.
Only in the Green Room — Where Artists Remain Human.
Explore more episodes at onlyinthegreenroom.com.
Creators and Guests
Host
What is Only In The Green Room?
Welcome to Only In The Green Room - Backstage conversations from popular music venues around the country curated by Mount Tam Media.
Buckle up and listen in, as host Dennis Strazulo and Mount Tam Media founder, Tami Larson, dig up conversations with artists - before and after shows - in the exclusive confines of the green room. Barriers are down with stories abound!
audience doesn't know this, you were a
runner-up on American Idol, and I think
I actually watched that year with my son
Our, our guitar player's girlfriend,
she was like, "Hey, I signed you up."
And, and I was like, "Man, there's no
way in the world I'm gonna do that."
Welcome to Only in the Green Room,
backstage conversations from popular
music venues around the country.
In this episode, Paul McDonald talks
about going from a touring musician
to ending up a top 10 contestant
on American Idol, and the long road
back to where he really belonged.
We get into fame, loss, songwriting,
letting go, and why, after all of it,
this time finally feels like home.
All right.
Okay, this is how we begin it.
Uh, Paul McDonald, welcome
to Only in the Green Room.
Oh, thank you so much for having me.
Man, you are so, uh, cooperative and
happy to be with us, and not that
that's always happened, but you have
been just amazing, so thank you.
Man, grateful, grateful that you
wanted me on the show, you know?
Yeah.
Why not, right?
Yeah.
Well, geez.
I mean, all right, what about High Sierra?
Have you played here before?
It's our first time ever here,
but I've been hearing about this
festival, you know, my, basically
my whole adult life, you know?
I remember, um, just seeing so
many of my favorite artists as
a kid play High Sierra Fest.
Oh, yeah.
And like, uh, this was kind of one of the
bucket list festivals of, you know, if, if
we ever get to play High Sierra, you know,
that, like, we, we've arrived, you know?
And for some reason, uh, we've, we've made
it this year, you know, after all these
years, and, uh, and it's everything that,
uh, that I would've thought it would be.
I mean, it's beautiful, beautiful people.
Well, for some reasons, because
your music is damn good.
Thank you.
Thank you.
And, and also the, you know, with the
Mourning, uh, the Mourning Doves, right?
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
And I, I, funny, when I read that
or hear it, I'm like, is it like,
it's not the Morning Doves, but
it's the Mourning Doves, right?
Well, well, well, when you read it, it's
M-O-U-R-N-I-N-G, which, uh, everyone
goes, "Is that…" That's like a sad bird.
Right.
But it's just a, it's a species of a bird.
The Mor- the mourning dove is like
those birds that, the gray birds
that look like pigeons, basically.
Yeah.
Um, and the message behind a mourning
dove is, like, um, even in their saddest
space, they bring peace and love and
joy, and, and, and I thought that's
kind of the message of this band, uh,
and this music, is to bring that kind
of love to people, and, uh, and I just
love the, uh, you know, the visual of
a dove behind a band is really cool,
and, and also, you know, my name's Paul
McDonald, and so I liked, you know, P.
McD and the MDs, you know?
I just thought that was a cool…
It kinda rolled off the tongue.
Right.
Yeah.
Um, but yeah, I l- I love being
in a band, and, um, you know.
Yeah.
That's a great… I'm glad I asked that
because, uh, it really, it's meaningful.
Yeah.
It also goes to your, uh, you
mentioned, you know, kind of the
sound of the, the band or the vibe
of the, of the music that- Yeah
you wanna put out.
Um, and if I'm not mistaken,
reading about this, you know, you,
you were kinda searching for that,
uh, until you found these guys.
Always.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know?
I mean, I've been doing- You know, I've
been playing music for, for more than half
of my life now, which is crazy to say.
But I started touring and, and making
records when I was in my early 20s.
And, um, yeah, I've been
in lots of different bands.
I had a band called High Tide Blues and
then one called The Grand Magnolias.
I moved to LA.
I started working with pop producers.
I, I wrote songs on Music
Row for country artists.
I've done a lot of different things,
and so I was kind of always searching
For what music meant to me in my early
20s, it was, it was this, you know?
And then as things started happening
in life, I would get, was getting
pulled in different directions and,
you know, I, instead of saying no,
I, I thought why not say yes to
everything that comes my way because
that's the only way to grow and evolve.
And, um, and I learned a lot about
what, what I want and what I don't want.
And, um, and this new record was
something that I made for me, not,
not because I was trying to, you
know, be a star or anything like that.
It was just something that needed
to come out of me and, and I met the
right guys at the right time, and we
made the right record and, and now
I'm here at High Sierra, you know?
That's great.
So those guys… Sorry, I was…
I'll finish my train of thought-
Yeah … before I forget my question.
Oh, yeah.
Uh, the thing is, uh, so this
album, the, the, the record, so you
recorded a record with these guys.
With these guys.
Well, yeah.
No session musicians, these guys.
Well, yeah, it's all… Well, the,
the band has actually evolved as
the record from, from then till now.
So the band, being in Nashville is
a strange thing because everyone in
Nashville is extremely talented, and
also it's hard to keep a band together
because if you get the best guitar
player in your band and you're playing
spots like this, then you got bands
that are bigger than you that have
more of a budget, and they go, "Hey,
we really love your guitar player.
We're gonna steal that guitar player
and take him out." So I've, I've
lost a ton of my musicians over the
years to, to superstars, you know?
Um, which is really cool to see my old
band mates on, playing stadiums and stuff.
Um, so yeah, it's kind
of evolved over time.
But, but the guys that made the record
were definitely not session musicians.
Um, but as soon as that record
was made, the guitar player for
that band moved to New York.
Um, the pedal steel player had a
baby and, and had to quit music.
Um, the bass player kinda backed
out, and so then a whole new f- a
whole new crew came in, and the band
has kinda been evolving on the road.
And the current version of the band is
c- is the best it's ever been, you know?
Um- Right … you know?
I love how that- And so- I love how
that evolves … the, the universe
is kind of just putting people-
Takes care of everything, doesn't it?
Yeah, yeah.
And you have to let people come and go-
Yeah … whenever they want to, you know?
So.
Of course.
And e- eventually you're gonna
be the one, somebody from your
team is gonna grab somebody.
Yeah.
That's what I mean.
I mean, I'm starting to see a lot
of my old band mates now as we
start climbing these festivals.
I'm like, "Oh, hey, good to
see you again." You know?
Yeah, I see that, but you don't
wanna lose any of the guys you
have either, so- To- totally.
Totally, man … just keep that in mind.
I mean, right now I got a great crew
of guys, and they're, uh, they're
dedicated to the project and, and
that's all I can ask for, you know?
And they're inspired.
You know, they, they love playing here.
They love playing in the band.
They love being here, uh,
interacting with, with
like-minded musicians, you know?
Yeah, you're not just
looking for the musicianship.
Of course you're looking for that,
but you're looking for a little more.
The hang.
The hang is 90% of it.
And, and having- People that
are, you know, sweet souls that
are, that are grateful and kind.
And, you know, when we show up
to festivals like this, everybody
that plays at a spot like High
Sierra is extremely talented.
You know?
Like, that's just baseline
to get into the fest.
But, you know, the thing that,
that I like to hear from folks
was, "Your band was so kind.
They're great humans, and,
uh, you were so easy to work
with, and everyone was so nice.
It's incredible how, how nice your,
your crew was." And that to me is
like we're doing it right, you know?
And it's kinda like what I said about you.
I mean, you know, when we
were just starting- Yeah,
that's exactly what you said
everything was just- Yeah.
Like, yeah.
That's it.
He's been saying this all along.
And it's working.
Um, okay.
So just in case our audience
doesn't know this, you were at
a runner-up on American Idol.
And I think I actually
watched that year with my son.
I'm pretty sure.
That was one of the chapters of life.
That was one of the cha- Yes, yeah
but, but I like that, you know, but you're
about, and it's so obvious, authenticity-
Oh, yeah … and human relationships
and, you know, original music and
songwriting, and you're a big songwriter.
Yeah.
Like, that's collaborated
with a lot of people.
So maybe just tell us
about that experience.
All right.
And how…
First of all, how… Did you try out
while you… Is that when you were in LA?
Oh, my gosh.
Uh, I mean, I've, I've… No, no, no.
So let me, let me, let
me think back to this.
This is like talking about,
like, sophomore year of high
school or something, you know?
It's like, oh, when you, when
you won the, the championship
in high school quarterback,
um, uh, a- about 15 years ago.
No, but it was, uh… How that
all happened was, um, I was in
a, in a band tou- touring around.
It was a band called High Tide Blues.
And, um, for some reason at the time
our, our guitar player's girlfriend
was a, uh, a professional dancer, like
choreo- choreographed, you know, dance.
And so she was on a television show
called So You Think You Can Dance.
I used to watch that show.
Remember it?
That's what I watched.
It was a big show back in the day.
Yeah, it was a big show.
And so she would al- She would,
she lived in the van with us.
We were, when we were on tour
when she wasn't off doing that,
and so she'd just done that show.
It was a big deal for her.
Right.
And, um, we were touring around
playing original music and, um,
you know, kinda doing similar
clubs really that we're doing now.
And, um- And she convinced me, like,
"Hey man," I was like, Nigel, the-
Nig- Nigel the guy who, who did So You
Think You Can Dance does American Idol.
That's right.
And she was like, "Hey, I signed you up."
And I was like, "Man, there's no way in
the world I'm gonna do that. And if I
tell my band mates, they're all gonna joke
on me and laugh at the whole situation."
And, and, um, and for some reason, we
were supposed to play in Colorado the
weekend the, the auditions, uh, and the
gig got canceled due to mold infestation.
We were playing at the Walnut
Room in Denver, Colorado.
And so we were back home and, and I
happened to be there for those auditions.
And I walked in late.
She drove me there, and I sang,
um, Tutti Frutti as a joke.
Um, yeah.
"A-wop-bop-a-loo-bop a-wop bam
boom tutti frutti." Oh, really?
Yeah.
That's great.
And they, and they
immediately were like, "Yeah."
And I was like, "Oh, no." Oh, no.
Like, uh, uh, I'm kinda stuck now.
Um- Oh no.
And they were like, "We like you." Yeah.
I was like, "Uh-oh." This
isn't the vision you had
for your music career.
No.
But your voice, they loved your voice.
I mean, yeah, for some reason, they, uh,
they just kept having me back around.
And, and like, and like I said, I,
um, you know, I was, I was open to
opportunities and, you know, and,
and we had just cut a record with
my band, um, The Grand Magnolias.
We did it with a producer named
Dan Hannan who'd just done a lot
of Manchester Orchestra stuff.
And so we were touring, and
we were playing big festivals
and, you know, on the way up.
And, and that opportunity presented
itself, and then, you know, we- That
took you out for a while … it, it took
me out- … uh, uh, for a long while.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, and it also just like- Put me in
places that I never … You know, people
started knowing me because of, "You're
the guy from that show," or, "You're the
guy who dated that girl," or whatever.
Like, my whole life was just uprooted
from the festival circuit and from
living in a van playing rock clubs
and, um- Right, from, from that
authentic place, I guess, huh?
Yeah, yeah.
And it's, and it took me a long time to
kind of escape it and come back into it.
And so, you know, it's been 15
years since that show, and here I
am right back at, like- Exactly.
Full circle … the- these festivals
that I kinda started off playing,
you know- Yeah … in my early 20s.
And then Tammy has to ask you
about it and bring it all back.
I- I- I- I know.
Well, yeah, but I mean, yeah … I
mean, it w- it was an incredible, uh,
you know- It's a little diversion.
It was like, well, part
of your journey- Totally.
Totally, yeah … that made you
realize exactly what you don't want.
Oh, yeah.
And, but also, you know,
you got a lot of exposure.
I, I mean, I learned a lot of
beautiful things, of course.
I mean, life is h- it happens all for
a reason, and there's no, like … That
is part of my story, and I, and I,
and I'll, and I'm, and I'm proud
of it at this point in my life.
It's like, you know, what a cool
thing to be part of, you know?
Um- Yeah.
And it's still going strong- It's still
going strong … American Idol, so.
You know.
Yeah.
Well, that's part of a tapestry, yeah?
The tapestry- The whole
thing, yeah … it's amazing.
Yeah.
And, uh, so but everything they
did was, like, they told you what
you had to sing and- Yeah, kind of.
I mean, yeah, that was, uh, I do have
one feather in my cap because every
time I would go in, uh, you know, as
a songwriter, I would try to present
an original song every time first.
And it was, uh, like Jimmy Iovine
and, um, will.i.am from the Black
Eyed Peas were kind of the, the g-
the guys that would, would oversee.
And so I'd be walking into Jimmy
Iovine every morning and like, "What
song you got?" And I would play
him an original just, just to do.
And he was like, "That's cool, Paul,
but you're not allowed to do that."
You know?
Like, a, like, "Let me kind of, like, find
a s- find something that might work for
you." But there was one moment in the show
where I played an original song, and then
they gave me a cover to do, and for some
reason, the show decided that the original
was better than the c- than the cover.
See, God, America, dreams
don't come from anyone else.
They're born from the beating
deep inside your chest.
I guess they'll do what you do You know,
I was the first ever artist to perform
an original song on American Idol.
She's doing a great show.
And now they do it often.
Now they do it all the time.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
So that's great.
So you, you opened the door with that.
I opened the doors.
That's pretty cool.
And so I've been told, you know?
That is, that is a feather.
That's a great feather.
Yeah.
And I do remember the show now
because I remember the Black Eyed
Peas being the… I totally remember.
It's coming back to me.
I mean, dude, it- Yeah … the
whole thing was such a trip.
Like, we were in the car the other
day and we pulled up a video of
Crosby, Stills & Nash and Tom Jones,
like, from the six- from 1969.
Yeah.
And I was in the van and the guys
were like, "This is incredible." And
I said, "Oh, man, you know, one time
I sang with Tom Jones." They're like,
"What?" "This was on, on American Idol.
And one time I sang with Stevie
Wonder, and one time I sang with…"
Like, all of these things that sound
made up- Right … um, that are,
that, that came from that experience.
Yeah.
And it was just like, you know- I
would imagine that it had to be fun.
I mean, it's, you know- It
was, it was so much fun.
It was like shooting out of a rocket
ship, and then all of a sudden…
I mean, back in those days it was huge.
Yeah.
It was huge.
I was in the, I was in the top 10.
Top 10, still.
Which, which is the same-
Yeah … it's the same thing.
That's the finalists, right?
The same thing.
Yeah.
You just were- And I was- Yeah, that's
right … I was on the national tour
and the, or the international tour.
It was a whole, a whole thing.
So you had to do that,
too, after the show.
I did that.
Yeah, yeah.
So that show took me out of the
band and the whole thing for over
a year, and then by the time it was
all done, I got swept up into, you
know, Hollywood and the whole deal.
And it, the, the band crumbled.
It was the whole, you know, Hollywood.
Hollywood.
Yeah, man, I checked it off the list.
Yeah.
And let me tell you what- Yeah … yeah.
I did it all.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
I, that's, that's a great story.
Cla- classic rocker.
That's a great story.
Great story.
It, it really is.
And unique.
I mean, most people don't have that story.
Yeah.
And unique.
I have a question.
What was the song, the original song?
It was called American Dreams, and
it was a, a song that was on the
Grand Magnolias album at the time.
Um, yeah, and we tracked that one with,
with Ken Coomer, who was the original
drummer for Wilco and Uncle Tupelo.
So that was, like, who we were
working with back in the day.
And the, and it was your song.
It's my song.
Yeah.
Nice.
I wr- wrote it.
Yeah, I wrote the song, yeah.
Man.
What are some songs that
you've written that, that other
people are playing and singing-
Oh … that we need to know about?
That's a good question.
I mean, there's a lot of, uh, there's
not any huge, you know, radio smashes
or anything, but, and I've written a lot
of songs really for just friends now.
Um- Trying to think of, uh, Aaron
Lee Tasjan has one on his new
record that we wrote together.
Andy Frasco, I wr- been writing a
lot of stuff with him for his albums.
Vince Herman, uh, from Leftover
Salmon's another one that I
bumped into the other day.
Um, Hanson, wrote one for the Hanson boys,
uh- Wow … recently The Hanson boys, wow.
Yeah, I mean, it's all, just all
friends- Yeah … of mine, you
know, that like- Yeah … you know.
And we, uh, we visited
with Andy here last year.
Not here, but at, at, at, uh- Oh,
yeah … High Sierra at the old location.
I mean, he was a hoot, did you meet him?
I mean- So yeah, so you did- What a,
what a beautiful human being though, man.
Yes.
That guy is, is so good.
Yes.
You know?
You gotta love life, man.
Yeah.
He's just all, "You love your life,
love yourself," all, that was his
message, and, uh- He's a beautiful
human … what was the song for him?
Do you remember?
Uh, we did a few songs.
I mean, he, on, on this new record we have
two songs, uh, I think there's two songs.
I'm even singing some, uh,
harmonies on the new record.
Um, the first one that we wrote
together was called Into the Blue.
Another one I think was
called Spill the Beans.
There's a few different ones.
We've got- All right, we'll check
it out … there's, there's- Right
… there's like one or two on each album.
The best- And is Steve Poltz part of that,
with that, with that collab- I wr- Yeah
wrote a handful with Steve Poltz as well.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And some of Frasco's album with Steve.
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
'Cause- Yeah I remember you said that
… yeah, Poltz was talking about that.
Yep.
Yeah.
That, that's fantastic.
Well, good.
We're gonna get everybody that wrote songs
on that record on this show eventually.
I think, yeah.
I mean, Andy's great at community, man.
Like, and, and so the whole, the whole,
it's a party making those records.
And so we get to see, he brought
in, uh, Zach from the Revivalists,
West from the Moon Taxi.
I mean, it was like Daniel Donato,
all these, all these guys, man, where
you're just like- Wow … it felt
like make, you know, like the Rolling
Stones or something, like yeah.
Wow.
Do you ever, do you ever sit
back and take a step back and
say, "What a life?" All the time.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, you still have a long way to go, so
it's like- Yeah … you've come so far.
Yeah, but, you know, just,
just, just while we're here.
I do it, too.
We're sitting back here doing,
talking, all- It's incredible
talking to you, talking to everybody.
I look back, we're on stage watching.
Like, what a life.
What a life.
Yeah.
We gotta take, right?
It's- I mean, very fortunate
people … in the moment, yeah.
Yep.
Every- Yeah.
Yeah, I don't, I do not
take any of it for granted.
Um- No … never.
Mm. Yeah.
Uh, let's see.
So you got a chance to meet and
play with Lebo- Oh, yeah, yeah
just a few minutes ago, right?
Lebo's incredible.
Yeah.
Yeah, he- He's another one of those
community guys, like that's, we love
him- So- … for that, yeah … I
mean, he, he is, th- that's the first
time we've ever, we've ever jammed
together, but, you know, and High
Sierra, it's kind of rite of passage.
Yeah.
You gotta, you gotta
have him jam with you.
And, um, Mike, our guitar
player, um, he does a lot.
He, he's a, he's part of a group
called Nashville's Dead in Nashville,
and they do tons of Grateful Dead
stuff, and he's known Lebo for a while
because they'll team up on some stuff.
And so he made that introduction.
But we've, we've kind of, uh, we've,
we keep following ALO around, you know?
It's like we're kind of on the
same posters and bills, and so
to have him up today and, and rip
some with us, man, it was so good.
That was, that to me that was
my favorite moment of the set.
All I know is I'm mad I missed it.
I know, I know.
Oh, yeah.
One of these days we're coming to
the festival, we're just going.
Well, you're doing,
you're doing our job here.
Yeah.
But, uh, do you get out
to the Bay Area ever?
San Francisco?
On occasion, yeah.
I mean, this band is pretty new, so, so
this is a, this is a huge step for us
to get out here more often, you know.
Um, but over the years I have played,
I've played at, you know, I've been
the opening act for s- for people.
I've played a lot of cool b-
cool venues and dive bars.
Anything in San Francisco to, like,
what is that Hotel Utah, which is like
a teeny little dive, all the way up
to the Fillmore and, you know, I've…
But, um, I don't know where
we'll play this next time around.
We haven't done a headlining
show there with this band.
I think maybe the Sweetwater Music Hall.
Sweetwater Music Hall would be incredible.
You know, we can get, we can-
Yeah … we can talk to them about that.
Yeah.
No problem.
Gross.
That's our home.
We come home from these festivals with
a list to, uh, Chris Porter, who's
their booking guy, and- Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
We got started there.
We got started in their, back
in, you know, back in their
production room is when we started
doing all of this, kind of, like,
after COVID, right?
Yeah, that was our, the, the genesis
of this podcast- Yeah … was, uh, back
in the green room at, uh, Sweetwater.
So cool.
And so we call that
our home still, really.
Yeah.
And, uh, although this is
a pretty good home today.
I may say, yeah, not a bad setup at all.
It's, uh, um, okay.
Another thing we like to ask, uh, because
we're very, very selfish, um, we like
to find out, here's why we're selfish.
We like to find out, uh,
what's on your playlist.
What are you listening to now?
I know you're writing songs,
you're playing your own music.
What do you listen to, uh, you know,
these days, album-wise or playlist-wise?
Artists?
It's a, yeah, it's a good question.
You know, I've found myself going back
in time to kind of, um, the music that,
that my parents raised me on, you know.
Um, about a, uh, last November a year
ago, so almost two years ago, um,
I lost my mom of cancer, and that's
been a, a big, big just, you know,
paradigm shift, life shift, you know?
And, um, and going through that, you
know, kind of took me back into those
early childhood moments that kind
of reminded me of why I am who I am.
And so I have been listening
nonstop to all the stuff from my
childhood that I kind of- Put away.
You know, it was like, "Oh, that's
like my parents' music," and then,
you know, I've, I've moved on and…
So yeah, it's been a lot of
Jackson Browne, and Joni Mitchell,
and Crosby, Stills & Nash.
Um, that's, uh, kinda been… A lot
of Allman Brothers recently as well.
Um, but yeah, it's all of that era.
Uh, in terms of new artists, it's a lot
of the people that are playing here, man.
I j- I just got off the road in December
doing the Allman Betts, uh, Family
Revival thing, and so I got to ride
around with, with Robert, and Cody,
and Luther, and J- and Judith, man.
And, and so- Oh, wow … I'm just blown
away by all of their talent, you know?
Did you see those guys
yesterday when they were here?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, b- well, dude, they, like-
They were in and out … they
basically pranked me and pulled me
up there to sing a verse with them.
Oh, they did.
I'm like, yeah, yeah.
They did.
Oh, that was, that's right.
Yeah, yeah.
Did you see 'em?
Yeah.
That was you.
That was me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They were standing right there.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
They were like, "Take, learn
the second verse." Yeah, yeah.
And I was like, "Cool. Who's singing
the rest of the verses?" You know?
Yeah, yeah.
That was really cool.
Uh, yeah.
Yeah.
But those guys are so, so sweet,
man, and, and just incredible,
beautiful people once again, man.
They… I mean, Luther couldn't
be… I mean, he's been a big
supporter of ours from the beginning,
and just will do anything for us.
Oh, he's the best.
Yeah.
He's the, he's the best.
He's the best.
We keep saying that.
Every time we bring somebody up we're
like, "Oh, yeah, they're great." Yeah.
But that's just how it is.
They're just- Well, my, my big thing
for me last night was when Robert walked
off the stage, I just happened to be
standing there, and he, uh, shook my hand.
I, I just pulled him, I said, "We'd
love to get you on this show."
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And he said, "Here's my email.
I'd love to do it." So yeah.
He- I mean- He's
a- … Robert's great, man.
He'd be great on this show.
Well, yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
So I gotta get him when he
has some time, you know.
He's o- he's on the East
Coast, but w- we'll grab him.
Yeah.
We'll, we'll get him back.
Yeah, yeah.
And so just, let's talk about
your, your family for a minute
just because you brought that up.
Yeah.
And God bless you, and, you
know, I know that's a hard thing.
Um, so did, were that, was that a big
influence for you, your parents- Yeah
… w- with music when you were growing up?
Yeah, of course.
I mean, that was kind of, they,
they taught me taste, you know?
And so, you know, both of my parents,
they don't play music, but they, you know-
They play an incredible record player.
You know, that was what they, they said.
They said, "Man, we didn't ever
play anything, but we taught him,
you know, about- Appreciation for
music … about the influences," and
you know, and they got me into it.
And so yeah, I can, I can remember as
a child, you know, whenever my parents
were home, uh, you know, it was always
Claptone Unplugged or Joni Mitchell.
And still when I go home, it's like I
walk into the house and my dad's got, you
know, stuff playing through the, through
the house, and it's… And the thing
is it's all the same music, you know?
On occasion, like- … you know, I've,
I've been bringing him out to, like,
these festivals now, and he's like,
"Man, like, there's some, like, new
stuff that, like, I'm digging on."
I'm like- There's been a lot of new
stuff out between Joni Mitchell albums.
Yeah.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
There's, like, all this, you
know… But, but he sticks to that.
That's, like, his i-
you know, his era, man.
And, um, but yeah, he's into some,
he's into a lot of new stuff, man.
Um- I was gonna s- I was gonna say
when you listed those artists, I said,
"You were raised well." Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, honestly, you know.
Yeah.
Um, you know, who was it that said,
uh, that the people that, uh, listen
to the E- uh, no, no def- uh, no
dissing on the EDM music or anything.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
But, uh, or any music.
That was Jennifer Hartswick.
Was it?
Somebody said that.
Wow.
The people that, uh, or, uh, like,
listen to EDM, they didn't, they were
not raised well by their parents.
Yeah.
Oh, no, that wasn't Jennifer,
but- It was somebody … she,
she brought that up, though.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's, I'll remember her part's over.
Yeah.
It might've been Frisco.
I don't know.
Anyway.
That's awesome, man.
It's not- You know, anyway.
It's a bit of a f-
uh, hold your cards and letters.
To- Yeah … I, I am g- so grateful
that my parents raised me on that stuff
'cause it's influenced my, my songwriting
and, you know, all of it, you know?
And I think my, my parents
were so blown away.
They still are.
You know, my dad is still just
in awe of, uh, of what this
has turned into, you know?
Is your dad still in Alabama?
Still in Alabama.
Yeah.
Yeah, my dad lives, uh, two doors
down from my younger sister.
My younger sister's got two, two kids,
uh, two boys, and so I'm Uncle Paul-
Yeah … on occasion, which is really fun.
And, uh, I- That's Huntsville?
Huntsville, Alabama.
Huntsville.
Cool.
And do they ha- do they do
any sort of festival going?
Do they, they- They just rec- I tried to
convince them to come to this one, man.
My dad was almost gonna come,
but something popped up.
But they did, um, yeah,
they've done Bonnaroo.
They've done the Grand Ole Opry.
They've done, uh, they just did one in
Virginia called Rooster Walk recently.
Um, you know, and they're, like,
four and seven years old, man.
Like, these are, like, you know- Yeah.
But, um- They'd fit, fit right in here.
They, they'd fit right in.
This would be a great one for them.
Yeah.
They would be so… I mean, the
kids would love this one, you know?
Well, this one's gonna keep going now.
I mean, they, it, they got through
last year where it had almost ended.
Yep.
You know, now they have this location, so
this is gonna be going on for a long time.
I th- I ho- I hope so.
This has been, yeah, such
an inspiring festival, man.
Yeah.
Is there, I wanna go back to your
music a little bit or this, uh-
Is there a song, like if somebody
just said, "Who are these guys?"
You wanted them to- Listen to one
song … to introduce them to the band,
yeah, what, what song would you choose?
Any song.
Oh, gosh.
You know, um- That's always a hard
one That's a tough question … I,
I think, uh, out of this new ba- the
new batch of songs that we've been
touring on, there's a song called Dark
Side that kind of was written out of,
uh, you know, it was coming out of
a chapter of life for me where I was
just, you control your own destiny
And, and for so long I was in my own head
In a, in a way of almost
like a manifestation
of like it's only love and light from
here on out, and, and, uh, and that song
in particular has al- it's, it's a great
message that from, from the band as
well, and, um, and I think it really has,
has helped and healed a lot of people.
Um, so I would say that's kind of the
one from this chapter, but there's so
many- Dark Side, what's the name of it?
Uh, Dark Side.
Dark Side, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
And the album is called
So Long to the Dark Side.
Um, you know.
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Yeah.
So Long to the Dark Side, man.
Yeah, I'm, I'm with that, and we
have a lot of the… It's a thematic
thing with the artists here talking
about what you are just about the
manifestations of going after what
you want and getting away from the…
But, you know, I think you did it
the right way because you, you, you
shot all the holes and, you know- Oh,
man, I've tried it all out, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then you got back to
here, which is amazing.
It's incredible that I'm… I
mean, the universe I guess, you
know, they… You just have to,
you know, now I'm just letting it
all go and I'm along for the ride.
I feel like for so long I tried
to control it, and now I'm just
letting it all be, you know?
Soon as you let go, right?
Yeah.
It's funny, it's like- The
doors open … it's, it's,
you, you, you work hard, right?
You, you have a good work ethic- Of
course, yeah … but then, yeah, but
then once, if you have that, then
you can let go and kind of- Oh, yeah
let it flow, you know?
Yeah, yeah, 'cause everything
just, you know, what is meant
to be will, will be, you know?
And I feel like the fact that we're
here means I've always supposed to…
Yeah, I'm supposed to be here, you know?
And like, uh, but I had to go through
all of those outrageous weird things
like American Idol and, you know,
all of that stuff to kinda go like,
"Wow," like, "I can't, I can't
believe that I'm back doing this."
And I'm also so- So grateful to
be back within this community and
accepted by this community after so
many years that, like, I just don't
take any of it for granted because
this, this is where it's at for me.
This feels like home, you know?
It's like this is my kinda music, and
all of my friends that are on stage
at, at, at festivals like this are
the kinda stuff that inspires me.
I'm just, like, so happy to be here.
Um- Feel like you're in the right
place that's nothing like that, right?
Nothing like it, you know?
Yeah.
Nothing like that.
Um, I wanna ask you a funny question
about the, back to the American
Idol just cross- crossed my mind.
Bring it, bring it on.
Let's- It's not, it's not about that.
Uh, you know, the, our podcast is
called Only in the Green Room, so-
Oh, yeah … sometimes we'll ask our
guests, "Oh, what's your favorite
funniest moment in the green room?" But
that's a, that's such a hard question
to… And people are like- Yeah.
… "Ah, you gotta prepare me
for that one." But how about
just specific to, uh, the green
rooms, the American Idol green room?
I can only imagine what that's like.
Oh, man.
I know, right?
I mean, there, there was moments, um,
you know, during, during that era of
what it was, just to, just to put it
in perspective, somebody sent me a, a
message a few days ago, and when, when
the USA just played this recent soccer
game, they said 24 point something million
people watched the game, and it was the
world record of people who have watched
the, the USA play Soccer World Cup.
And back in 2011, every single
episode of American Idol was 26 point
something million people watching it.
Every episode.
And then the grand finale was over 30
million people, so that was how big
that was in r- in terms of, you know,
that's b- bigger than the World Cup-
Exactly … which was just so chaotic.
So backstage at these events were,
were huge celebrities, you know?
So, like, I remember this was the
one that, that really blew me away
because I'm a huge Almost Famous fan.
Yeah.
And, uh- Yeah, I love that, too … and
also Kate Hudson era Almost Famous.
Oh, right.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Well, you've got a little
Chris Rock, I mean Chris- Chris
Robinson … Robinson vibe going on.
I, I'll tell you.
He's heard that.
Right?
He's heard that, yeah.
You totally do.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I love the, I love
The Black Crowes and that
whole, that whole era, man.
Um- Shout out Luther again.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, no.
Yeah, yeah, we talked about that, man.
It's so cool.
Um, but yeah, I remember one day we were
in the dressing room and, uh, and Kate
Hudson walked in along with her partner
at the time, um, who's the lead singer
of Muse, and then Chris Robinson, the kid
she had with Chris, and I was just like,
"That's the girl from Almost Famous."
She just laughs You know, like and
she's here Yeah, right, 'cause Kirsten,
she was so good in that Oh, yeah.
That was one of my favorite movies, too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it was, uh, you know, that,
that… And that stuff as a, you know,
25-year-old kid, I was just like, "I
can't believe we're in the same room
as, you know, all of these people."
Um- All these people.
By the way, before I forget,
there's a great… Howard Stern
has a great interview with Kate
Hudson, and she goes back and talks
about that whole time with Chris.
It's really good.
So you have to look that one up.
I'll check it out.
You'll enjoy that.
I'll ch- Yeah I just, I just listened
to, uh, Steve Gorman's book, uh, the
drummer from The Crowes, like about
how all of it went down and stuff.
And I mean, yeah, they're, they're
one of my favorite bands, so yeah.
Yeah.
It's really cool.
Yeah.
That was… Yeah, well, that I figured
it was a, uh, if not chaotic, a
shit show back there with- I mean,
I mean, dude, it was just all kinds.
And then also you got, you
know, a lot of kids really.
We were all kids that did…
They went from zero to a thousand.
And so everyone's trying to
navigate, you know, what fame and
all of this attention is like.
And so yeah, it was kinda strange, but
it also put us in a group of, you know,
kind of this, this group of folks that
like we're connected always, you know?
And a lot of my, my peers and castmates
from that show- Who won that year?
Uh, Lo- or Scotty McCreery.
So Scotty McCreery- Oh, my gosh … yeah.
Yes.
Yeah.
I c- oh, it's all coming back to me now.
I mean, it was an incredible
group of talented people.
Right.
Like, uh, Jacob Lust was on there,
and he's in a band called Gabriels.
It's like headlined Glastonbury.
They just did Coachella.
He just did Coachella
with Moby and like- Yeah
Hayley Reinhart's on tour
with the Red Clay Strays.
Like, there's just been some, you know,
James Durbin was the singer of Quiet Riot.
Yeah.
Right.
Like, it's just like, what?
What?
You know, like- It's cool that you guys do
keep in touch a little bit, huh, on some-
Yeah … a little bit We're in a, we're
in a group, you know, chat with everybody.
That's so cool.
You know?
Yeah.
It's all very positive.
I think that's cool.
Yeah.
I, I do.
Clearly Tammy is one of the 26 million.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, yeah, yeah.
Well, but my son and I, my son's now 27,
but we watched the first American Idols.
I bet Ruben and… No, it
wasn't- Oh, yeah, Ruben Studdard,
yeah … no, it's Kelly, Kelly.
Kelly Clarkson.
We watched that.
Yeah.
And then we watched the next and that was
when Ryan was like four or five, right?
Yeah.
And so it became sort of a thing
with us and then, you know.
I mean, it was pretty entertaining.
I had never really seen the show.
Obviously I knew, I knew it as
pop culture everywhere you went.
But as I was on the show coming from like
a festival guy like this, I just wasn't
really aware what I was getting into.
And it- They should just do
a documentary about that.
Like- It was like, what- Follow- … what
am I… What did I say yes to?
Yeah.
Like, am, am, am I gonna…
What's gonna happen after this?
What are the effects,
after effects of this?
Am I gonna have to go to therapy?
Like- Well, did they put you-
Yeah … in any outfits or cut your
hair in any way that you were like,
"No way. I'm not doing it." Yeah.
Yeah, there was, um…
Yeah, for sure, you know.
I mean, I came in kind of with the
same style that I, that I am now.
And so the, the stylist that
dressed us was Ryan Seacrest's,
uh, stylist- And he let me wear the
majority of my own clothes, but we
had a, a, like a $400 stipend per
week that we could go shopping.
And so I'd go into this place on
Melrose called Jet Rag, and we'd
get a lot of cool vintage stuff.
But on occasion, they would
put me in wardrobe, and it
never kind of felt comfortable.
And then it… But I, but I let it
go, and then I would, then I would…
Then the next time I'd fight for it.
I'd be like, "Man, get like, uh…"
But one of the… I don't know
what, man, this is all just
bringing back up past memories.
Um, one of the strangest times during
that era, um, Gwen Stefani came in
and dressed all the girls, 'cause
apparently she had a new clothing line.
Um, Puff Daddy
clothing line, and he was,
his job was to dress the guys
Um, and he shows up and, you know.
Everybody stop and imagine that
And I was like, you know, Sean Combs'
line, clothing line is probably a
really nice thing, but, like, it
doesn't really kinda … For my kind
of Americana rock 'n' roll style,
it didn't kinda fit, fit the vibe.
And so I politely declined, you know,
Puff Daddy that- And then you didn't
get to go to any of his parties.
I didn't go to any of
the parties, you know.
He would invite you.
Unfortunately, I didn't get the invite.
Thank God you're off the list then.
That's probably not a bad thing.
Exactly.
Yeah.
You might be on some lists.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
But, yeah, that, that was that kinda era.
I mean, like, I hadn't thought
of these people in 15 years- Yeah
'cause now I just hang out with normal,
you know- Normal people … normal people.
Yeah.
Yeah.
People like us.
Yeah, just good, good people.
Yeah.
Um, well, this is fucking a great chat.
I'm really enjoying this, pal.
Yeah.
Well, thank y'all for having me.
I wanted to, uh, and we will, uh, Luther
will be happy we had you, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and- I love those guys … and
tell, uh, Ro- uh, Robert that,
uh, you referred me as well.
Yeah, man.
You gotta get Robert.
Yeah.
He, he's, he would be a
great- Yeah … episode.
He was- Yeah.
Yeah … he was totally up for it.
I was like, "Oh, okay. I'm in.
I'm in." I mean- Yeah … yeah,
he's, he's gotta have some stories.
Oh, my God.
That guy's, he's a legend, you know?
He's a legend.
So, um, so what you have to do
here, this is kind of outside the
box too, but that Tutti Frutti.
I love that.
Can, can, can you give us a verse?
Come on, Paul.
Come on.
I mean, all it was was, "A wop bop a
loo bop a wop bam boom. Tutti Frutti, oh
rutti." That's pretty much what it was.
Like, I, I was thinking I was gonna
get thrown out immediately, and I
was like, "Well, ah, here we go." Uh,
sorry, I had to bring that one back.
Oh, yeah.
All right.
Yeah.
Well, um, Paul McDonald,
man, really good to meet you.
Can't wait to follow you some more,
and, uh, see you when you get out
to the Bay or wherever we are next.
Beautiful.
Yeah.
We're gonna be dropping a line to Chris
and the Sweet Water crew for sure.
Cool, cool.
Yeah.
That'd be amazing, man.