E341 - Brewing Success in the Skies - Thomas of Hangar 22 Coffee Roasters

Hangar 22 Coffee

In this episode of the Pilot to Pilot podcast, host Justin Siems chats with Thomas, a 737 airline pilot and the founder of Hangar 22 Coffee Roasters. Thomas shares his inspiring journey into aviation starting at age 4, navigating the challenges of COVID-19 right after flight school, and balancing a demanding flying career with building a thriving aviation-themed coffee business. From commuting between Atlanta and Toronto, to roasting coffee in hangars, partnering with Textron and EAA at Oshkosh, and dreaming of an airport coffee shop, Thomas discusses the highs and lows of pilot life in Canada vs. the US, the 1500-hour rule, family sacrifices, and why great coffee fuels every adventure. Whether you're a pilot, coffee lover, or aspiring entrepreneur, this conversation is a perfect blend of passion and perseverance. Tune in for aviation insights, business tips, and a rapid-fire Q&A!

What is Pilot to Pilot?

Pilot to Pilot is the podcast for anyone who flies — or dreams about it. Host Justin Siems sits down with airline captains, bush pilots, CFIs, and everyone in between for honest conversations about the path to the cockpit, the grind of the career, and the love of flying that keeps us coming back. Whether you're a student pilot chasing your first solo or a captain with 20,000 hours, there's a seat for you here. New episodes weekly.

Episode 341 of the pilot the
Pilot Podcast takes off.

Now.

Fly with Garmin Avionics.

Then grab your mobile device
and make the Garmin Pilot app your

cockpit companion.

Get advanced functions you'll
use before, during and after every

flight, including updating
your aircraft's databases and logging

engine data.

Plan File Flight Fly log with
Garmin Pilot the Pilot to Pilot podcast

is brought to you by Ground
School from the Finer Points, the

indispensable training app for
new and experienced pilots.

Visit learnthefinerpoints.com
justin to save 10% off your first

year, all pilots need the big
weather picture and I use SiriusXM

Aviation to check the fronts,
airmets, segments, turbulence, pireps

and more while I'm pre
flighting and in route.

All to give my passengers and
me the most comfortable flight possible.

And now with the latest offer
from SiriusXM, there's never been

a better time to upgrade your
next flight with a Garmin GDL52 portable

receiver to bring SiriusXM and
ADS B weather plus traffic into your

cockpit.

So my name is Thomas and I am
a 737 driver for work and when I'm

not flying, I own Hangar 22
Coffee Roasters and have been doing

that for the last, oh boy,
almost five years now.

I've been running a coffee
business along with flying airplanes

which has been a lot of fun.

AV Nation, what is going on?

And welcome back to the Pilot
the Pilot Podcast.

My name is Justin Seams and I
am your host.

Today's episode is with Thomas
from Hanger 22 Coffee.

Now you might be thinking,
Justin, don't you have a coffee company?

Why are you promoting another
coffee company?

Well, Thomas is a great dude.

We also haven't sold Pilot's
coffee in a little bit.

We need to bring it back.

We're gonna bring it back
eventually, I promise.

But I'm a big fan of Thomas.

I'm a big fan of Hangar 22
Coffee Roasters.

Met him at Oshkosh.

I, I bombarded him and was
like, hey, you're the enemy.

And he's like the typical
Canadian answer.

Just like, oh, there's room
for both of us.

We love pilots coffee.

I was like, oh, okay, well you
guys are pretty cool.

Let's do a podcast.

So I, I love the conversation.

He is actually in Atlanta
commuting to Canada to fly for Canadian

Airline with hopes to
eventually make it to an American

airline down here and fly 121
in the US AV nation.

I hope you enjoy this podcast.

It was A great one.

Check out Hangar 22 Coffee.

Make sure you leave a review
on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and also

follow on YouTube.

We're trying to build the
YouTube channel up.

I think we can do it.

So let's do it.

Let's watch.

Let's watch the video podcast
on YouTube.

Maybe I'll have to start
dropping some cool stuff on there

to get you guys over there.

We'll see.

But aviation, I hope you're
having a great day.

Hope you're having a big
Hangar 22 coffee.

And I hope you're enjoying.

Without any further ado,
here's Thomas from Hangar 22 Coffee.

Thomas, what's going on, man?

Welcome to the Pilot.

The Pilot podcast.

Hey, Justin, thanks so much
for having me here.

It's kind of wild.

It's.

You know, for so long I've
been listening to you while I go

to the airport, and now here I
am on your podcast.

It's kind of wild.

Thanks for having me.

Even though we are.

We're not.

I mean, I haven't really done
coffee that much in a while, but

even though we both have
coffee companies, it is cool to see

you just continue to kill it, man.

I mean, what you've been able
to do, what you've been able to build

and just being at Oshkosh and
being partnering with Textron and

having the ability to have
good coffee, because we both know

the coffee, the caffeine
options at EAA Airventure were historically

terrible.

So thank you so much for
providing good coffee for everyone

to have and keeping everyone
caffeinated, because a lot of people

need it after the SOS tent the
next night.

Or that night.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

And you know, I've decided to
sacrifice my time at the SOS tent

every night so that I can make
sure that everyone who shows up the

next morning has coffee to
supply them throughout the morning.

Especially during the really
long, hot days at Airventure.

Yeah, it's.

It's a must, man.

And there, there's always a
line there.

I feel like I went there
either at 6 or not 6am I was never

there at 6am, but early.

And then when you go there
later, you know, they're still got

a lot of people waiting for
some coffee.

So.

Dude, it's awesome.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, absolutely.

That's.

It's honestly a really huge treat.

So I, I can't complain.

But we all know whose coffee
is better though, let's be honest.

I mean, I have to go with
yours because I haven't really sold

coffee In a while.

So technically there is no
pilot's coffee right now.

It's waiting to, it's in, it's
in the closet probably actually right

behind me.

I think I have like a box of
like 500 packets.

Right.

Well, maybe this is an
opportunity for, you know, a pilot's

coffee with Hangar 22 collaboration.

I don't mind roasting extra.

I can't complain.

I mean, I don't have a
roaster, so maybe we'll talk about

it.

But we are here to talk about
coffee and we're here to talk about

you.

So I kind of want to focus a
little bit on you, the pilot itself.

So tell me, why, why did you
become a pilot in the first place?

Great question.

I, I got into aviation pretty young.

I, I kind of knew I wanted to
be a pilot since I was four.

Actually.

I've always been into
machinery, Large, you know, I don't

know, large vehicles and machinery.

Just growing up.

So, you know, whether it be a
fire truck or a dump truck or a crane,

construction equipment,
whatever, I've always just been interested

in operating equipment, like
big things.

And when I was, When I was 4,
I flew on a 767.

Once I did that and I realized
like, this building has wings and

it flies and there's people
who do it.

I was sold.

And that, that pretty much,
you know, gave me the spark I needed

to get interested in aviation.

I, from that point onwards I,
I, I knew what I wanted to do.

I've been very fortunate and
very lucky that I knew what I wanted

to do at a young age.

And then, you know, once I was
in high school, I got my class one

medical, made sure I was fit
to fly and then started taking flying

lessons from there and that
kind of took off.

Yeah.

So you, so you had to wait all
the way to high school to start getting

your ratings?

I know in the United States
you're Canadian based, but solo at

16 or.

No, you can solo 16, get your
private at 17.

Is it similar in Canada?

In Canada you can solo at 14
and then 16 to get like a, like a

recreational license, but 17
to get your private.

So I started flight training.

I was 15 and then solo when I
was 16, got my private when I was

17.

So that's what I ended up.

That was like the path that I took.

And then once I finished that,
I went to like the equivalent of

a one like what you guys would
call 141 program.

So I did the equivalent of a
141 program in Canada and It was

really accelerated program
where I was able to finish everything

in 18 months, which was wild.

But then from that point
onwards I was in Canada.

We don't have the 1500 hour
rule, so I was slated to go into

a regional airline in Canada.

However, I graduated in March
of 2020, which was not the best time

in the world for pilot jobs.

And that ended up leading me
to working actually at a bunch of

coffee shops.

Cause like if I'm not flying,
the other thing that I know how to

do is coffee.

So I was barista at a bunch of
different local shops in Toronto

and then I ended up becoming
an apprentice aircraft mechanic.

That kind of led me to
starting the business and eventually

coming back to Toronto from I
was originally.

Well, I ended up going to
Collingwood when I was an apprentice

aircraft mechanic, came back
to Toronto, ended up shoveling snow

at the airport to get closer
to my aviation networks and connections

and, and then from shoveling
snow I ended up becoming a concierge

at one of our local FBOs which
led me to getting a job on a G150

and then that kind of, you
know, accelerated my career forward

and now I eventually end up
becoming an airline pilot, which

has been a lot of fun.

So no complaints.

Let's talk about the mentality
of you're graduating, you know, March

2020, you think your career is
about to take off.

You know, I got all my
ratings, I don't need 1500 hours.

Just like the other states,
people in the states do.

Like I'm going to a regional,
I'm going to do this, I'm going to

be an airline pilot.

This is what I train for.

And then a sudden, right, you
get blindsided.

Covid comes kind of resets everything.

The industry looks like it's
just going down the tank, right?

Like talk about the mentality
of that.

How did that affect you?

Did you think it was just
never going to happen?

You're like, well I guess I'm
part of the new lost generation or

kind of just talk about what
you're going through.

No, actually like I, I was
really at peace with it because I

came into this industry.

Like I, I knew the cyclical
nature of it and there was a, one

of the, at that time, director
of flight operations for Porter Airlines.

He, he came to one of our
graduations back when I was in high

school.

I took on my private one, got
my certificate and it was a big banquet

with college students and a
bunch of self paced students taking

every pathway to get their licenses.

And he read this article And
I'll never forget this.

I was like 17 years old.

I was quickly humbled.

And it was an article saying,
like, oh, Canada and the United States

are going to need 10, 15,000
pilots in like the next two years

and the shortage is crazy.

And everyone was cheering and
high fiving each other because like,

yeah, we graduated.

Here we are, we're going to
make it.

And then he goes all the way
to the bottom.

He goes to the bottom of the
article and actually reads the date.

And the date said September
10, 2001.

And I've never seen the room
get so quiet so quickly because people

like, know the suffering that
happened after that.

And it, you know, it could be
great today, but tomorrow we could,

you know, everyone's going to
be furloughed.

You don't know.

And so it'll happen.

Like you're going to have bad
moments and there's going to be,

It's a cyclical industry.

But I, I knew that going into it.

I, I always, I know things can
get worse.

And at the end of the day, the
fact that I was already, at that

time, I was 19, about to go
into a regional airline like, okay,

relax, there's, there was guys
flying checks like 15 years ago,

having to build thousands of
hours before they get on a classic

dash and make absolutely no
money, sleep in a lounge, there's

a lot worse out there.

So just because I had to take
a hiatus from aviation, so to speak,

for like a year or two, not
that big of a deal.

And I think that the recovery
happened not only a lot faster, but

the post Covid era for those
two years after those early retirements

happened, there was just so
much growth.

There was absolutely no way
upon my graduation that I would think

I'd be flying a 737 when I
turned 23.

That was just absolutely unthinkable.

And then it happened, and then
it just happened.

So it's like, yeah, you might
come out of graduation, be like,

this sucks, but then all of a
sudden, like two years down the road

and something way bigger and
better happens.

So you don't, you don't know
where life is going to take you.

And I think that just because
something doesn't work out doesn't

mean you have to be, you know,
upset about it.

Because I fly with a lot of
guys who have gone through two or

three furloughs at so many
different airlines.

They've gone through from one
merger to the other merger to the

other merger.

And that's a lot to deal with.

So, you know, I'm pretty lucky.

Where I, where I am, that's,
that's essentially it.

So graduating with everything,
literally furloughs and no one hiring,

it's okay.

It's not the end of the world.

We will be patient.

What?

In that time, I just tried to
do whatever I could do to get that

first job.

Like eventually leading me to
shoveling snow at Toronto Pearson

in order to get closer to the
FBOs, in order to get the connections

to get my first job.

Because I knew I was probably
going to get into corporate before

I got into the airlines,
simply because I knew that there

was at least some movement
going on, there was some hiring going

on.

Yeah.

And I travel.

Shoveling snow just led me to
getting that next job.

Right.

So you got to do what you got
to do.

You got to do what you got to do.

And two things on that is I
love the mentality about it because,

I mean, I like to ask the
older pilots that I fly with, it's

like, you know, what do you
think about the newer generation?

It's like, well, I mean,
they're all, most of them are good

pilots.

Uh, they can fly really well.

It's like.

But they just don't understand
kind of what we all went through.

20, even like September 11th
or, or way back in the day.

It's like how mergers from,
from not making any money, sleeping

on benches, people brushing
their teeth in the airport, truly

getting paid minimum wage.

And now you have.

I'm not calling you out, I'm
just using an example.

But like a 23 year old coming
in flying a 737 and they're like,

what?

The actual f. Like that never
happened 10, 15, 20 years ago.

So you are really like doing
fantastic in your career, going all

the way up to 65. Who knows if
67 comes on?

I mean, that's a very, very
long career in aviation, flying airplanes.

So when you look at that
little hiatus you had to take at

19 when you had to wait a year
and a half, I think it's worth it,

Right.

Like, I think in the grand
scheme of things, you're gonna be

like, oh, I had a pretty good career.

Yeah.

And then, yeah, honestly, it was.

It's a non event almost.

So.

Yeah.

Well, I don't want to minimize
it because it is an event, right?

Like, it is like you get sold
expectations, you get sold sold many,

many things in this career.

You're going to be.

When you go to the hiring and
they're hiring like crazy, they're

going to make promises,
they're going to be like, all right,

you're going to upgrade in two
years, you're going to make this

much money in 10 years, you're
going to be on a 787, flying wide

body to wherever you want.

And then 10 years comes down
the road, and you're still on short

call reserve on a base that
you don't want to be at.

It's just how the airlines work.

And you really.

Which is why I always argue.

No, keep going.

Yeah.

Which is why, like, I.

Sorry for interrupting.

It's why I always argue, like,
you have to be in this industry.

Like, if you love flying, if
you genuinely love what you do, then

you should go here.

Because it's gonna suck.

Like, sometimes it's gonna
really suck.

Like, I can't.

I'm not trying to paint it or
discourage people from entering aviation,

but there are really hard
days, there's hard years, there's,

like, there's hard times, for sure.

But I find that so many
people, I meet a lot of them at work

who are, like, surprised
they're not in a legacy of right

at 1500 hours.

And I'm like, well, buddy,
you're right.

At 1500 hours, it's okay.

You got to be a little bit
patient, and you got to work towards

it and just be happy you're
already flying a narrow body.

Like, that's just unheard of
10, 15 years ago.

And it's not to minimize, you
know, the pandemic.

It was really hard for everybody.

I was.

I barely was able to afford to
put food on the table for my wife

and I, but we.

We made it work.

And shortly thereafter, like,
you know, there was a.

There was a light at the end
of the tunnel, so to speak.

And unfortunately, this is
just the industry we're in.

Right?

Like, we.

It could be wor, is what I
always say.

Like, I meet the folks who got
gray hair by the time they were 30

because they went through
their second furlough 9, 11 SARS,

2008.

Like, there's so many things
that can go wrong, and I do think

it could be worse at the end
of the day, at least if you're, you

know, right now, the biggest
benefit, especially in the states

that you guys have, is if
you're stuck in a regional, sitting

in the right seat, feeling
like you're going nowhere, at least

the pay isn't awful.

Like what it was if you were
in that position 10, 15 years ago.

It's, It's.

It was a lot harder back then
to make, you know, 1720,000 in a

year to fly for a regional.

Absolutely.

And flying crazy hours too.

Like truly working minimum
wage when you kind of add in like

how often you're working your
duty days.

And based on what you're
bringing home, I mean, you don't

have to get too into this
because I don't know where you are

in probation or where you
stand with the airline and all that,

but there is quite the
difference in pay between the United

States pilots and Canadian
pilots, right?

Oh yeah, absolutely.

I'm like, I, I don't know.

Everyone has their own
opinions on the 1500 hour rule from

someone coming from the
outside into the US I'm a huge supporter

of the 1500 hour rule
primarily for the wage increases

that it has caused.

We don't have anything like
that in Canada.

Yeah, you can fly a regional
jet or an airliner at a young age

earlier on in your career, but
at the end of the day, like, no,

I'm happy to be patient and
wait and make the earnings for the

last 30 years of my career happily.

And I would never be upset by it.

Everyone has their own
opinions on the 1500 hour rule and

safety is a whole other
conversation to have.

But when it comes to pay, it
was a huge benefit.

I'm a big supporter of it down here.

I live here now and eventually
I will be separating from my airline,

going on to another U.S. airline.

And yeah, it's the same
airplane, same flying, but you get

paid way more here.

So it's fantastic industry to
be in here.

Do you think it's just because
of the 1500 hour rule or is it actual

profits or is it, I mean, kind
of, I guess.

What do most Canadian pilots
think about the pay?

I don't know because like we
in Canada at least Canadians I find

feel a lot or they feel this way.

Yeah, like we were not as big
of airlines.

We don't make as much profit.

But at least from top down,
from all the way from the CEO all

the way down to your chief
pilots, I argue that most of them

get paid the equivalent of
what our American counterparts get

paid.

It happens quite often.

But we as line pilots are not
seeing the same kind of gains.

And I also feel that in, and
the mentality here, especially exacerbated

by the shortage, is people
want a good contract.

There's been so many, there's
so much, so many post bankruptcy

contracts that were negotiated
that eventually American pilots from

whether you're, you know, part
of, you know, the Allied Pilots Association,

Alpa or whichever carrier part
of everyone wanted to get out of

that post bankruptcy contract,
I guess mindset.

And there's huge gains that
are being made and US Airlines have

pretty much, we can all
comfortably say that US Airlines

have recovered from those
contracts like from the pilots group

perspective and they've gone,
they've made gains beyond that.

Quality of life has absolutely
become amazing at most legacy carriers.

Pay has been great as well.

Huge improvements all in all
areas of every contract.

It's great.

Your dream is to want to work
for one of these companies and, and

you're going to have a
fantastic comfortable life for, for

a very long time.

We have not seen like in terms
of the amount of money lost in post

bankruptcy contracts in
Canada, we have not seen that money

come back.

Like we still in terms of
value for every contract, even in

the most recent one with Air
Canada, not every single thing has

come back.

Even though the airlines will
be making billions in revenue and

still surpassing the, or
approaching surpassing the $1 billion

mark in profit.

So there, there should be some
more gains.

There's not here pilots are
really, really advocating for better

quality of life.

They want the pay raise.

They want, you know, to be appreciated.

I think especially down here,
the suffering from post 911 run 2008

area, SARS, whatnot, there was
so much suffering and sleeping in

too many lounges.

You can see the gains in the
contracts like even some of these

regional stuff like be paying
for your hotels while you commute

like that.

I mean that's a sign that they
don't want to have any more pilots

sleeping in crew lounges prior
to flying being fatigued.

It's really, it's huge gains.

All across the network there's
been huge gains, but there's been

a push for it like top down
there's been a huge push towards

this and you know, it's great
to hear CEOs whether it be, you know,

Bastian or Kirby going on the
news and, and advocating for their

pilots and really showing a
sense of pride I guess towards their

airline, their company.

And as much as there is always
going to be tension between management

and airline pilots, I find
that there's a lot more unity here

in the states than there is
north of the border.

And I do think that that helps
or that is reflected in the gains

that you guys have here in contracts.

And the 1500 hour role is a
huge part of it because at the end

of the day everyone who
finishes flight school, even if you're

going to get paid no money, if
you're at 250 hours, you're going

to go, want to fly an Embraer
and fly a bunch of people around

and actually go from Toronto
to Dallas and have a nice layover

and come back or fly four legs
a day.

You won't care because it's
going to be better than instructing

till 1500 hours, making no
money and then trying to get into

a regional.

But the airlines in Canada can
take advantage of that and say, okay,

well if you want to come right
out of flight school school and you're

desperate to pay off some of
that student debt, we're not going

to pay you much and people
will take the care 10 out of 10 times

I would do the same.

Like, I can't blame them.

I did instruct him for a
little bit as well.

And as much as it was a lot of
fun, airline flying is completely

different.

It's very sophisticated.

It's really enjoyable.

I love the job so much.

There's nothing I would ever do.

I don't care how Big Hangar 22
explodes or Vice versa.

I, I keep both of them, but
I'd always keep the airline flying.

I love it.

It's, it's not, it's just fun.

When I go to work, it's always.

Would you say a lot of pilots
in Canada you're speaking for.

All Canada are here, all
Canadian pilots.

But would you say it's common,
Would you say it's common for, for

pilots for either account, air
Canada, Rouge, WestJet, whatever

it may be to, to look at the,
the airlines down in the States and

be like, all right, I'm going
to try my hardest to get a job there.

Or is it kind of like we want
to fight, we want to have a comparative

pay contract what they have at
American, at United, at Delta, Southwest.

So to get a work permit of any
kind south of the border for an airline

pilot has historically been a
huge challenge for pilots.

However, other been a lot more
success stories post the pandemic.

I would say I don't know a
quarter of the experienced pilots

and I mean like you know,
5,000 plus hour, 10,000 plus hour.

Most of them are captains.

They apply for different kinds
of various visas.

Some of them like even I think
when Atlas was sponsoring one of

my colleagues, she ended up
going to, she, she had an Australian

passport.

So she ended up getting into
Atlas via that route and is there

now.

But everyone desperately is
would love to come to the States.

A lot of people want to fight
for better contracts.

Don't get me wrong.

You can see it in the divided
votes when, when these big airlines

when they vote on their
tentative agreements here in the

US when you see, you know,
United or Delta vote on their contracts,

it's pretty unified where
everyone stands.

In Canada, a lot of people are
divided for various reasons, but

that division leads to, I'd
say 30 to 40% of pilots eagerly trying

go south of the border to get
jobs here, like, quite a bit, I would

say.

But that applies almost to the
rest of the world because I'm sure

in Europe and in other parts
of Asia, people would love to come

to the United States in order
to fly.

It's, it's truly like the, the
industry that's been crafted here

is, is incredible.

Yeah.

And it's the only place where
I would argue it's done right, completely

top to bottom.

It's fantastic here.

It's funny you would, you
would talk to a senior captain at

American or Delta, they're
like, oh, it sucks.

Like, it's not the glory days.

You know, you're from Canada,
you're looking in, you're like, oh,

my gosh, I just want in, please.

I want it.

It's just funny what can
change and how you can be hardened

toward an industry over
contracts, over 9, 11, over 2008,

over all the things that have happened.

Yeah.

And I think it's important to
try not to get jaded by those people

because there's so many who
are negative, and no matter how much

money is thrown at them, no
matter how great their life is, they're.

They're still going to be upset.

They're are always going to be upset.

So I, I mean, I try not to get
jaded or get upset with those guys

because they exist at my
company that exists at every airline

forever, it won't matter.

There's always going to be something.

And, you know, it's not the
glory days for sure.

And I'm sure I'm going to feel
the same way.

Maybe in 20 years I'll be
like, well, it was so much better

when I was this age flying the
7 3.

It's like, yeah, maybe, but
you know, it.

The only thing in life that's
guaranteed is change.

So, you know, I just try to
make it or try to advocate for a

positive change and ride the
wave, I guess, and enjoy life.

So what's your path look like
to get a job at an airline in the

States?

Do you have to count on a work
visa or what's your strategy?

So I'm a permanent resident
here in the States.

I actually commute from
Atlanta to Toronto right now to stay

at My job for the time being,
I had a bunch of regional interviews,

but long story short is
through various meet and greets with

other legacy airlines I, I
ended up finding out that everyone

was like, okay, calm down, you
don't have to immediately jump to

a regional.

Start at the bottom, you're
flying a 7 3.

It's okay.

Like it's either keep building
your time right now, if you need

better quality of life and
live domestic in the States and not

have to commute to another
country, by all means, that sounds

great, find the job that works
for you.

But you don't necessarily need
to rush to like a regional airline

to sit on reserve then to
just, you know, slowly you get a

hold of line where you're
doing five legs in a day, which I

was willing to sacrifice.

If I didn't get to do that, I
was like, let's do it.

That's okay.

I'll go from the seven three
to the crj.

Here we go.

But I, I was pretty much
advised against that so I, I decided

not to go down that path.

And so I, I, we'll see where I
end up being right now.

I still don't think I'll,
well, at least I'm not like, like

I'd love to go to legacy right
away if I could, but I'm not expecting

a phone call for a while from them.

I just, you know, I know, I
understand things have slowed down

and anyone can get there, but
I'm not like, I'm not planning on

it is what I could say because
I know guys who are still like 2000

hours getting interviews with
legacies and I know guys, 5000 hours,

they're like, you know,
they're ACPs at certain airlines

and they're still struggling
or they're, they're being turned

down.

And so it's, who knows who's
going to be called and who's going

to get the job.

And so I just keep my head
down, keep doing my flying, try to

build my application, keep
doing my resume building in the meantime

commute to a whole other
country to keep flying.

So, but we'll see.

I think within six months I'll
probably be at another airline here

in the States, I think.

So Atlanta is quite the move
from Canada.

Right.

There are closer cities, big
cities to where you live probably.

What was the reason behind.

Yeah, so my, all of my in laws
are here and we have a 14 month old

at home and then we have
another, we have a baby boy who's

on the way in October.

So it's it was quite important
that if I'm gonna do the commuting,

I want to.

I want to be somewhere where
at least when I'm gone for my couple

days of work, I. I have family
or in laws that can come and take

care of.

Of our little kiddos.

So that's why we ended up
deciding to come.

We decided that Atlanta was
going to be home for now.

And it's easy access because
like, I, I can go on to Atlanta and

fly Air Canada or I can fly
Delta or whoever up to Toronto.

It's not that big of a deal.

Usually, like, I've only had
one day where I couldn't commute.

I only had one day where I just.

Nothing was working out.

It's stressful, it's hard.

But most of the time I'm lucky
enough to get a seat, I'm like, okay,

great, I'm going to work.

So it hasn't been too bad yet.

That's good.

So, and I, at the end of the
day, I know it's temporary.

If I get to an airline and
they send me over to Seattle or Minneapolis,

wherever, you know what, we'll
pack our bags, we'll move.

I don't plan on commuting once
I get to an airline south of the

border.

This is just a temporary solution.

Yeah.

What are you able to do, cast?

Are you able to jump seat
being a.

Flying for a different airline
in a different country?

Okay, so that makes commuting
even more difficult.

Yes.

So the way it works is they'll
list you as a jump seater, but they'll

transfer you from the jump
seat list to the standby list.

And so, so you'll just be
moved over standby list, which does

make it a lot harder.

So if there's no seats in the
back available, there's no way I

can make it work now.

Like, I can sometimes make it
work by taking a flight from, let's

say Atlanta to Montreal, and
then if I.

If that's the only seat in the
back available, and then Montreal,

I can jump seat domestically
in Canada from.

From there to Toronto on any
flight I felt like, because I can

do a domestic flight within
Canada, but I can't do anything in

the US and most airlines, even
if I was part of casual, at least

most airlines, if you're going
across the border and you're not

working for that airline, you
can't sit in the jump seat.

At least in Canada.

Most of our airlines are like that.

So there's.

It almost still be redundant
and impossible.

The only solution to not
dealing with.

My nightmare is to get a job
south of the border.

And then, and then if I was to
commute, at least the commute's a

lot more manageable.

What do the people, the
captains you fly with, what do they

say when you're like, oh, hey,
man, what's.

What's up, Thomas, Welcome.

Like, what are you, Where'd
you come in from?

And you're like, actually, I
live in Atlanta.

Are they like, what?

Or is that kind of common, everyone?

Yeah, yeah, it's like, you
know, there's easy ways to do this.

Yeah, I know.

But it's what you got to do
for your family and for your career.

And like, at the end of the
day, we already knew we had to move.

So it was like I could have,
you know, I, I could have driven

from Buffalo in, into Canada
and went to Toronto and it would

have been way shorter than
what I do right now.

But then, then my wife would
be alone for like five, six, seven

days at a time.

And that sucks.

And you know, at the end of
the day, I just, it was just easier

for her family to be there.

I pay less taxes by living
down here as well.

And so it's just, you know, in
general, life has gotten better,

especially when I'm home.

Life is great right now, but
at the end of the day, we also know

it's temporary.

Like, it's not gonna.

This isn't a forever.

I'm gonna be commuting to
Canada for the rest of my life because

if that was the case, we'd
just be living there.

But this temporary band aid
solution, just to do the commute.

And then again, in less than a
year after the move, I'll already

hopefully be working for
another carrier in the US and so

at that point, that's not that bad.

If I have to do this for this
time in my life, then forever onwards,

I'll be living where I'm based.

Perfect.

It's not the end of the world.

Let's take a break from
today's podcast to hear from our

sponsor, raa.

Hey, it's Justin.

If you've been flying long
enough to hit senior captain pay,

you probably also run into
senior captain problems.

Bigger tax bills, complex
benefit decisions, stock options

you're not sure how to handle.

And here's the thing most
advisors won't tell you.

Your financial life as a pilot
is more complex than most people

realize.

That's why allworth airline
advisors put together the pilot's

wealth planning blueprint.

It's a step by step guide
Built exclusively for high earning

pilots, it shows you how to
minimize your taxes, optimize airline

benefits and plan for your
final descent with real confidence.

The best part, it's totally free.

Plus you get access to smart
planning tools and a no cost call

with airline specialized
advisor who actually understands

your financial planning challenges.

Download it
[e-mail] pilotopilot

don't let mandatory retirement
sneak up on you.

Get smart about wealth
planning today and you can go to

Allworth Airline financial
backslash pilot to pilot.

How hard has it been for you?

I mean I know your wife has a
support system there, but it's still

hard when you know the person
you marry is not at work.

You got a young kid.

But talk about the struggle
goals with the commute.

Has it been more difficult
than you thought?

And I'm think I'm speaking
more, not necessarily like actually

getting on the flight, but
just like mentally leaving either

a day early or the night before.

You know, you're missing extra
time with your kids, with your family.

How has that been for you mentally?

Has it been pretty tough or is
it just like you said, you just had

the mentality.

It's like all right, we're
doing this for the family.

It's going to be better in, in
a few years.

We're going to make sure that
we're going to have a life that we

want to live that's just
unfortunately part of what we have

to do do.

Yeah, I, I would say it's
definitely, I don't know if it's

harder than I thought it was
going to be, but it is, it's definitely

fatiguing like over time
especially like at my company we're,

we're a budget airline so
we're, we're flying a lot like we

are.

We, we keep a thin pilot group
or we keep everything, everything's

lean.

And so we don't have, have, we
don't staff as many crews for every

airplane.

And so we're always flying
like we're flying probably I think

next month I'm putting on 86
hours which is like, and that's not

an hour, that's not duty hours.

It's just 86 hours of straight flying.

So it's a lot of, it's a lot
of work.

But and then you add the
commute on top of that and for you

know, I'm able to hold a
decent schedule so it's not terrible.

And I'm usually able to bid
for the trips that I want and get,

get whatever I feel or
Whatever is going to be good for

the commuting schedule.

But it is hard because usually
on like a four or five day trip,

I'm going to lose a day on
either end for commuting.

And that's awful.

And when that happens, that
always really, really sucks because

that's a day I could have been
at home.

Like, if you do the math, like
I did the math, if I did this for

a full year, I'd comfortably
lose, I think like 70 days in a year.

70, 75 days in a year just on commute.

That's just me sitting in the
back, not getting paid, just for

no reason.

I was like, that's just not sustainable.

Like eventually that's gonna,
you know, that's gonna catch up to

anybody.

And so, I mean, kudos and
respect to anybody who commutes for

their career.

I don't think I'll be doing that.

Even if I had a fantastic
schedule, I don't think I'd ever

do it because it just gives me
that extra time to not only be home

more, but if I wanted to fly
or work, I can always pick up.

If it's so hard for me to pick
up, you know, whenever there's like

200% pay, like a one day trip,
I can't pick it up.

I'm all the way here in Atlanta.

How am I going to get to work
right now to go pick up this flight?

So it's unfortunate to miss
out on opportunities like that where

I can make a lot of money,
have, have a good time.

And that it does make it fatiguing.

Especially since, you know, we
have a little kid at home, we have

another one on the way, and
then we're also running this aviation

themed coffee business, which
is nuts.

To do all of that together is
a challenge.

However, I like, I almost.

It sounds weird but like on my
resume when I, when I hand it over

to a recruiter, I really part
of me just wants to put like a one

section that says family and
be like, this is the sacrifice that

my wife, my kids and everyone
else has made so that I can get to

this point where I can hand
you this resume.

Because it's not just about me.

Like all of us are doing this together.

Like that app to every legacy
in the United States, every other

airline that I've applied for.

Like, that's, that's not just
me putting in the work.

That's all of us putting in
the work.

Because we know, we know what
we can expect once we get there.

So all of us, it's all of us
working together in order to make

the sacrifices necessary to
get to that point.

So.

And, you know, that's just.

That's just the reality of the.

The life we've.

We've chosen.

So, yeah, it's.

It's hard, but it's not forever.

No, it's not.

And it really does take a
special person to be married to.

To.

To really kind of hold down
the fort while you're gone.

Because, you know, when you.

When you tell someone, like,
I'm gonna be a pilot, they think,

oh, cool, you're gonna make a
lot of money.

We're gonna go travel, we're
gonna do all these fun things, but

they don't really think about,
you know, what the first couple years

are like or what it's like
being at a regional for 10 years

instead of five years.

You know, it's just shortcut
or short call reserve when you're

living in North Carolina and
you got to go to New York, which

I.

It's.

That's my commute.

It's not terrible.

I've gotten used to it.

It's gotten better now that I
have a line and I can drop stuff.

I think last month I. I'm not
gonna make a ton of money, but I

only flew, like, 45 hours, so
I was able to drop stuff and only

flew two trips, which is nice,
but I was able to do this, but it

would be with my kids, be able
to be at home.

But it really takes someone
that's super strong, that understands,

that can be independent, and
it's a hard person.

Being a pilot or being married
to a pilot is very difficult.

It's not easy.

So kudos to your wife.

Kudos to anyone that's married
to a pilot.

It is a toug.

We see you.

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

It's, it's.

It is really tough.

And I'm so appreciative of
having her and her patience with

all of this, because this is.

It's hard on everybody.

But, you know, we're.

We're all sacrificed.

We're all making this.

This work right now, and
eventually it's going to pay off.

It's just.

It's hard work on everyone's part.

And, yeah, that.

That always ends up paying off.

Always does.

Yeah.

Put the time in.

It's going to pay off.

Off.

I want to kind of circle back
to Hangar 22 and something you mentioned,

you know, you were.

You were finishing flight
school, no jobs.

And you said that you're just
working at coffee shops.

You're just kind of Kind of
doing your own thing, right?

You're just trying to make
ends meet.

You're trying to figure out
how you're going to go ahead and

provide what you're going to
do for career.

But was hanger 22 coffee kind
of always in the back of your mind

was this something like, I'm
going to start a coffee business.

Sounded like you're in coffee
for a while.

Sounded like you, your
baristas, you knew the world, you

knew the business, you knew
how to have a, it was going to work.

But was this kind of something
you, you always wanted to do or is

it kind of fast tracked by
just the point that, you know, I

mean, I need some money, let's
start a company and I know coffee.

Yeah, no, great question.

I, I always was interested in
having a coffee business that was

always something I want to do
because in aviation I think, I think

it's important, especially
since, you know, we talked about

it being a cyclical industry.

I think it's important to have
something else, whether it's to fall

back on or you never know
whether it's, the industry's going

to take a downturn or you're
going to lose your medical or who

knows what.

So I think it's always just
important to have something else

going.

And I love coffee, I've always
loved coffee.

And in high school I was
roasting coffee to save money away

so I don't have to buy
specialty coffee.

And that's how I got into it.

I, I, I literally just
couldn't afford to buy any more specialty

coffee.

So I was like, I'm just going
to save money by roasting it and

it's going to cut my cost in half.

And it did.

And I was like, this is great,
I can get, I can drink so much more

coffee.

Not that I need any more, but
I really wanted to get into it.

And yeah, from that point
onwards, I always, in the back of

my mind knew I wanted to do
something like that because I already

was roasting coffee for
friends and family, always brewing

coffee in the basement of the
airport and everyone knew I was there

making coffee for everybody.

And yeah, during the pandemic,
it was this kind of golden opportunity

where for a year and a half,
two years, like nothing was happening.

And when I was working as an
apprentice aircraft mechanic before

and after my shifts, the
owners were really gracious enough

to let me roast coffee in the hangar.

Eventually this led to people
starting to come for cups of coffee,

then bags of coffee, which
eventually turned, you know, a little

tip jar Then a cash box, and
eventually it, like, kind of took

off, and I. I knew I had to do
something with it.

It was now or never.

Because you have this opportunity.

You're not flying.

You're not doing anything.

And because I was roasting in
Hangar 22 at the local airport, I

decided to call it Hangar 22
Coffee Roasters.

From there, the name kind of stuck.

That's it.

So, yeah, but then it was.

You know, it was humble
beginnings now, where we're a lot

busier.

I'd say most of my days off,
when I'm not flying, I'm just roasting

coffee, bagging coffee,
shipping, talking to clients, making

other things where, like, for.

It's.

It's usually that's what ends
up occupying my time.

So I dream of the day when I
don't have to fly as much because

I'll be working for an airline
that I want to hang my hat at, and

then I'll be like, okay, this
is great.

I can maybe fly 60 hours this
month and focus on my business instead

of flying 90 hours and then
struggling to juggle everything at

once.

So it'll be a nice time.

But, yeah, I can relate to the
shipping, the coffee part.

I remember the first.

So I was working at my last
job when I started pilots coffee.

And I remember when I
announced it, I got a decent amount

of orders, and I was really excited.

But then, like, when I came
home, I was like, okay, I have to

ship all these orders.

And it is.

I mean, it's a blessing to
have orders.

It's a blessing to be able to
ship stuff, but holy smokes, I never

want to touch a cardboard box
ever again in my life or tape anything

or.

It's like, goodness gracious.

It is painful to do that.

So are you guys still shipping
everything on your own?

Yeah, everything is done on
our own.

It's just the two of us doing
all of it.

I eventually will have.

Have Maybe more people.

But, like, generally speaking,
though, it's just the two of us were

once making everything happen
behind the scenes.

Like, every.

Like, my wife will do all the
designing and labeling.

I'll do the bagging, shipping,
roasting, all that stuff.

So it's like she.

Like, she and I literally are
pretty much running, like, 50% of

the operation on each end and
just trying to make it all work together.

And it's.

It's a lot of coordination,
but we do make it work.

Yeah, I can't come up, but it
is hard.

There's too many cardboard
boxes l. Around.

I can.

I can 100% relate to that?

Yeah, it's crazy when.

So I really think it's
interesting when you're like, oh,

they just let me roast coffee
in the hanger.

Because I mean, you and I know
that roasting can be, you can spend

a ton of money in roasting
equipment, but like, what is that

you were talking about saving
money because you can't buy specialty

coffee.

So were you just roasting in a pan?

Like, were you just roasting
like on a stove top or what?

What did roast, roasting mean
when you're doing that?

So, yeah, so when I got into
roasting, I.

Because as you know, roasting
is really expensive even for an at

home roaster.

It's like probably, I don't
know, three, four hundred dollars

a day.

It's like, that's a lot of money.

And When I was 15, I got into
this, I was like, there's no way

I'm, I'm gonna afford this.

But looking and researching
roasters and kind of getting into

different kinds, I.

One of the more affordable
versions that I was interested in,

a fluid bed roaster, which
uses hot air as I guess, the fluid.

And essentially we'll take the
coffee beans and it'll push them

aloft and when they're in the
air, the air is heated.

And that heated air
essentially roasts the coffee, which

is the exact same concept that
a popcorn popper has.

And instead of popcorn
kernels, you can use coffee beans.

And so I ended up going and
spending $20 at my local Walmart,

Walmart in Canada.

And I spent 20 bucks on this
popcorn popper, put coffee beans

in it, and from there it just,
it worked.

It worked great.

And that's what got me
initially started in roasting.

And I did that for years.

It was awesome.

You can put a thermometer in
there, like a thermocouple in there,

measure, you can chart out
your rate of rise inside the popcorn

popper.

Unfortunately, it's really
hard to change the actual loft or

the, the heat setting on the coil.

So you eventually are going to
have to upgrade.

But for 15 year old me, it was
revolutionary and it worked great.

And so I was able to at least
get some coffee roasted from there.

And then eventually, when,
especially once Hangar 22, we knew,

or I knew it was going to
become a thing, got a commercial

roaster.

Like the same concept of fluid
bed roaster, but just much bigger

and much more expensive.

Yeah, I was going to say, you're.

Still using the popcorn machine.

Oh, no.

Oh, man.

If I, if we did if we actually
had to, like, if I had to guess how

long it would take me to roast
everything for Oshkosh on that little

thing it pro, I would probably
be still roasting like 10 months

later, like 12 hours a day.

It was just.

It was never gonna happen.

It was just.

It was great to do like 100
gram batches at a time, and that's

about it.

But we've long retired to that
fleet, and now we moved on, but now

we're using a six kilo drum
roaster from Mill City.

And so that's been a lot of
fun working with that, and I've really,

really enjoyed using it.

Much, much bigger roaster, and
there's a lot more output, but it's

not like it's big enough for
us to get the wholesale product out

in a reasonable amount of time
for Airventure.

But it's not so big where it's
like a 30 kilo roaster where I could

not, not, you know, I would
get Oshkosh done in a couple days.

Great.

But I couldn't, like, for a
reasonable amount of orders, I would

never be able to go use it
because it just makes no sense to

turn over, like 50 pounds of
coffee per batch.

That's just way too much.

So it's a perfect size for us
for now.

And, yeah, that's essentially
what we're doing.

Yeah.

Dang, man.

I just like.

So my love of coffee comes
from my wife.

I mean, I didn't drink coffee
till after college.

Pretty much when I started
flying, I was like, dang, I'm actually

tired.

I need some coffee.

So start drinking coffee.

She got me addicted to all the
sugary drinks.

Then I slowly realized that I
just like black coffee.

And when I was flying to my
previous job, you know, there's a

lot of early days, there's a
lot of late nights.

There's just a lot of flying.

You're drinking a lot of coffee.

And I was like, this coffee sucks.

All the coffee and fbos.

I don't want to say all that's
not good or a good thing to say,

but most of the coffee was
just so bad.

So I was like, there needs to
be a better option.

And.

And that's when kind of pilots coffee.

And it also came.

I was doing the podcast.

I didn't have sponsors in.

I was like, all right, how can
I make any money off this?

And decided to start my own
coffee brand, which is Pilots Coffee.

And I also recommend, if
anyone starts their own coffee company,

try to get the trademark first.

Because then it becomes a
little bit more of an issue down

the road.

So if Pilots coffee does come
back, it will probably be a name

change coming there thanks to
another Canadian company, which is

actually a pretty.

Pretty massive coffee company
from what I've learned.

So they just let me do my own
thing because they know that I'll

probably never get to where
they are.

But, um, yeah, it's funny.

Um, anyways, but yeah, so just
realized, see what we could do with

coffee.

And really was gravitated
toward the to go coffee bags.

I wanted something quick,
wanted something very easy to take

on the road.

Uh, I mean, you've seen Pilot.

I. I mean, at one point I had.

I was like a weight.

I can't remember what it's
called, but it was a.

A pressure espresso machine
where it was like this little cylinder

tube, and you pushed it to
create pressure and it created.

You put an espresso pod in
there and you make coffee.

Um, so I was trying to think
of something that was really quick,

that wasn't messy, that wasn't.

Didn't take long to make, and
was able to find the steeped B that

we had.

And those were great.

As long as you knew how to
make it.

I had one buddy who told me
that he just put it in.

You're supposed to steep it
for five minutes, and he just drank

it right away.

And he never let it steep.

He's like, I just thought it
was really weak coffee.

I was like, dude, it says it
on the bag.

Like, how do you not figure
this out?

Come on, man.

So I had to teach him how to
do it.

But, yeah, roasting coffee,
it's a science.

Like, I know most people are
now probably listening, like, they

have no idea, but roasting
coffee is a foreign language.

It's like learning ifr.

Going from PPL to ifr.

It is.

Is.

It's crazy.

And I. I feel like it's
probably pretty easy to messed up

a whole roast.

Yeah.

Yeah, it is pretty easy to
mess up a whole roast.

But I. I will have to say,
like, it's.

Once you get sucked into it,
you go down this rabbit hole of just

like, there's so many var.

Excuse me.

There's so many variables when
it comes to roasting coffee, and

that's something that attracts me.

I'm like, this is so cool.

Like, I can.

I can.

I can.

Coffee cause the roast to
taste a certain way.

If I do this or if I, you
know, if I burn my batch, this is

what's gonna happen.

You know, there's there's so
many different ways you have, you

have these green beans and you
might have like three different batches

and you can make three
completely different profiles that

would result in a totally
different flavor profile at the end

of the day.

And so when you have three
different, you know, versions of

the exact same coffee, it's.

It's unique and it's great.

It's also beneficial for me
because then I can utilize the same,

same, you know, coffee and
have a completely different.

Like, I can do a limited
edition coffee for a particular show

and roast it significantly
lighter or have a completely different

profile and it will taste
substantially different than maybe

what it did a year ago when I
used it or for a certain coffee that

we're already making.

So it's nice to have that
flexibility in kind of crafting your

own, own, you know, your own product.

But once you get into it and
you start it, I wouldn't.

It gets complicated.

But if you, if you try your
best not to make it overly complicated,

it's.

It's not that hard.

I think anyone can learn,
like, just like flying, like flying

looks very overwhelming.

You.

If you're getting your private
and you walk into the flight deck

of a 7:3, you're like, this is
the most ridiculous, you know, flight

deck I've ever seen.

And then look at all the
switches are pushing and pulling

and doing all these things.

And then the briefings sound complicated.

The whole flying is complicated.

And then you just take it day
by day.

You do bit by bit, and next
thing you know, like, it all.

It's.

It's the language you speak
and it just makes complete sense.

And coffee is like a very
version of that.

So it's not, it's definitely complicated.

It can get complicated, but
you can, you can make it simple.

And I think anyone can.

Anyone who's interested in
roasting coffee should get into it

and it's a lot of fun.

So how much better is the
coffee that you roast in your very

expensive commercial roaster
versus the, the popcorn machine?

A thousand times better.

Like a million times better.

Not that, like, that was bad.

Like, it still got the job done.

But here you have control of
everything and you get a lot less

outliers.

You're.

When you actually have full
control over it, it's like you go

from like the right brothers
to like the 74.

Like, it's a huge difference.

Still flies, but it's the.

It's.

It's a whole different.

It's.

It's a whole lot better.

You have a lot More control.

So the quality is obviously is
very much noticeable.

Yeah, um, I just, I enjoy the
fact that I can put in a batch.

I have full control over it.

I already know my profiles.

Like I, and the way I do my
profiling, I usually chart it and

graph it out myself.

Like you can do digital
programs which are great, but I try

to do it all by myself, by hand.

And then I will end up
following that, like that profile.

Like I have a book that has
all my printed profiles out.

And then I just, I follow that
to a T every time I roast for particular

coffees that we regularly use.

That way it's always consistent.

The customer is getting the
same product every time they order.

And yeah, it's, but it's, it's
just fun.

Like I, I, I now go roasting
coffee on my days off and I enjoy

it.

Like, it's like, this is exciting.

You turn the machine on, you
get it all prepped and ready and

it's, it's just a lot of fun.

No, I love it.

Another thing with coffee is beans.

And you being from Canada,
living in Atlanta now, now me living

in the States, North Carolina,
we are not countries that are not

known for roasting beans.

So it's not something you're
gonna go, you know, a couple miles

away and find not roasting
beans at, growing beans.

So you're not going to find
necessarily beans that you're going

to drink from the States.

So how did you go about
finding beans?

Was this something that you
made relationships with farms or

was it reaching out to people
that is like, hey, I already have

the relationships.

This is where sustainable, you
know, we treat people well, all that

kind of stuff.

And here are beans that we recommend.

Yeah, I, I actually the way I
learned about green coffee beans

is like when I was in high
school and I wanted to save money

on coffee and I got into it
and learned about, you know, getting

green beans, I, I ended up
just going to different coffee shops

that roasted their own coffee.

I just called, ask them as a
15 year old, hey, where do you get

your beans from?

Who do I buy it from?

And some of these coffee shops
sold to me.

But I did learn a lot about
who their wholesale suppliers were.

A lot of wholesale suppliers
supply both to Canada and the United

States.

They supply to both they'll
usually like.

Especially on the east coast.

There's a couple different
companies that have warehouses in

Montreal and in, outside of
New Jersey, which is fantastic.

There's, there's a lot of
warehouses in the east coast, northeast

that have a Lot of coffee
stored in warehouses.

And I, that when I started my
business, I worked with one of them

and I worked with a wholesaler
out in Alberta in Canada as well.

They shipped me quite a bit of coffee.

But now down in the States, I
actually use the, one of the wholesalers

I use in Canada, I still use them.

Nothing has changed.

It's the same product, same coffee.

It's just now they're shipping
it to their New Jersey warehouse

and then bringing it down to
Atlanta for me.

Yeah, and there's like,
there's a couple of them, there's

a couple of them that have warehouses.

One that has a warehouse in
Charlotte and in Jacksonville.

And so we use them as well.

There's just different
wholesalers and what they essentially

do for us.

Eventually we'd love to get
into direct trades with farmers and

work with them directly and be
able to import the coffee and you

know, know the product and you
know, have, have a working relationship

with them.

But for now, essentially what
a lot of coffee shops do in roasteries,

they will, they'll bring the
beans over to the US have this, the

wholesaler will do all the
paperwork, make sure everything is,

is fine.

From an agricultural
perspective, it's not only do they

make sure that it's, you know,
from a, or from a legal perspective,

everything's sound, but also
they will cup it, they will roast

it, they'll taste test it,
they'll send you samples, they'll

make sure that you're happy
with the product you're gonna buy.

And then from that lot, you'll
end up just purchasing however many,

you know, 153 pound bags of
coffee you'd like.

And then they'll put it on a
pallet and then ship it to you.

And you can pick and choose
from different countries, different

regions, different farms,
different programs, whether it's,

you know, fair trade or not.

And you can, you can get
different certifications.

You just pick and choose, put
it on the palette, they ship it to

you, that's it.

So it's pretty straightforward.

What's, what's your goal with
Hangar 22 Coffee?

Like, what's your wildest
dreams, wildest goal for what you're

doing and what you're building?

I think for myself, the
biggest goal that I have.

Oh, that's a good question.

My biggest goal right now is
simply to, well, it's, I guess a

life goal.

Get into a legacy airline so I
can focus on my, my coffee business

just a bit more.

But essentially with Hangar
22, the goal is going to be to open

up the first coffee shop.

Where that's going to be, I
don't know yet.

We're in talks with a couple
different airports.

I don't know where that's
going to land, which one we're going

to end up selecting.

I do think it's, it's going to
be in this.

Well, I would say like North
Carolina is probably the furthest

north will have it.

It's going to be somewhere in
the south.

Why?

Because I want to be at an
airport that has ga traffic.

I want to have an airport that
if it can get corporate and commercial

traffic, great.

But I, I want to open up an
airport coffee shop that's like honestly

been a huge dream of mine for
a very long time.

Because how cool would it be?

Like, you know, I finish work
and then I have my days off, I can

go and roast a coffee.

You know, my wife and I, this
would be our full time thing outside

of flying and we just own a
coffee roastery where, you know,

we, we're serving delicious
coffee every single day.

That's what we specialize in.

Everyone can come grab a bite
to eat, fly on in, you know, and,

and be able to, to fly out.

And I don't know where it's
going to be exactly, but that's,

that's the long term goal for
Hangar 22 is to open up the coffee

roastery at an airport.

There's a lot of logistical
issues and, and being a federal property

or federally regulated
property with having a roaster there.

There's a lot of stuff that,
that we're trying to work out right

now.

But I do think that's
essentially the next step.

It's going to be, it's going
to be going there.

The only thing that's
preventing me from pulling the trigger

right now on like 100% just
finding airport, picking and choosing

is I want to make sure that I
know where I'm going to be working

for the next, you know, 30,
30, my career, which airline I'll

be.

And then from that point, from
that point onwards, wherever I land,

I, I will then go ahead and
pull the trigger on the coffee shop.

But that's essentially the
next thing because right now like

when I'm not working, it's,
it's all hands on deck for the coffee

thing.

And then we do, I, I just make
sure my vacation and time off is

scheduled around shows we're
doing center fund, we go to Mbaa,

we go to Oshkosh.

Like we're in other air shows
in between.

It's all I do when I'm not flying.

And so I don't even have
vacation time or anything like that

where I'm actually off at all.

And I haven't had that in like
two or three years.

And that's okay.

It's.

You gotta.

It's all part of the grind and
you gotta make it happen.

But at some point, it'll.

It'll be nice to have a more
flexible schedule, to be able to

really hone in and focus on
the business.

I also wanna select the right airport.

Two years ago, we almost
pulled the trigger.

New York on an airport in Wisconsin.

And it was.

It was going to be a great
collaboration with another manufacturer

and we're really looking
forward to it, but I just didn't.

It wasn't feeling right
because I knew.

So for six months of the year,
no one's going to fly into this general

aviation airport.

It's just not going to happen here.

It's going to be so cold and miserable.

How are we going to make the money?

And, you know, everyone
between us and the investors were

all like, oh, well, the locals
are going to come.

And I'm like, no, they're not.

There's so many other coffee shops.

Like, it wasn't like a crowd
that was interested in driving 20

minutes to like, like up an
interstate and down a county road

just to get to the airport
just to go have a cup of coffee.

It wasn't.

That wasn't going to happen.

So I was like, you know what?

I don't think it's going to
work out.

And at the end of the day that
the hangar ended up not being built.

So we were very fortunate not
to go down that path.

But I want to make sure that I
make this happen at the right airport

and do it right the first time.

Talk about the biggest win
that you've had with Hangar 22, and

then also talk about either
the biggest regret or kind of like

the biggest, like, bad
decision you've made.

We're just like, oh, dang it,
that was stupid.

Great question.

My biggest, my best moment, I
think that I really enjoy with Hangar

Trent 2 or things that I was
really happy about was our partnership

with both Textron Aviation and
with eaa, having them, you know,

back us up.

I. I can't thank them enough.

It's been a lot of fun over
the last, what, almost five years

now, working with them.

We do so many shows with Textron.

We travel with them to so many
different shows.

Being able to serve coffee.

They've been nothing but kind
to us, we're just very grateful to

even be with them.

And they love our product.

We have a really good working
relationship with them.

And that was a fantastic thing
that ever happened with us.

I was really, really happy
when that.

When we kind of trialed it out.

1 Oshkosh, we sold out a
coffee by noon every day, and we

had to shut down early.

We're like, oh, so this
thing's really big.

Like, we just thought a couple
people would show up.

And then, like, by noon, we
were sold out and we shut down.

And so then I realized, okay,
we need to Prep for, like, 10,000

cups of coffee to be turned over.

Like, this is a much bigger,
bigger show than we anticipated.

And I mean, I've been to
Airventure a bunch of times, but

I didn't think that the coffee
scene was.

There's this, I guess, gap.

No one wanted to spend insane
amounts of money on coffee, and they

wanted a good quality coffee,
and we were able to provide that

for them.

Dude, people want for a very great.

Price of no money.

That is even better.

Yeah, exactly.

And so it's a great way for
us, you know, to get that product

out there.

We, you know, we're really
fortunate with the relationship we

have with them to make all
that come together and work.

And with eaa, it's great
because we.

We've been able to sponsor.

Sponsor them for the last
couple of years, providing coffee

pretty much exclusively to
them for their volunteer kitchen,

for their, you know, their lounges.

And we've been able to provide
coffee to the Red One market.

It's been a lot of.

A lot of fun being able to
have that coffee kind of just spread

around the field for that one
week and just the months leading

up because, like, whether it
be for their Christmas parties or,

like I said, volunteer
kitchen, which starts like back in

early spring, all of that, all
of those areas where we're able to

provide the coffee to them.

It's been awesome.

And in return, they've just been.

They've been very helpful and
great at getting our product out

there.

So I, I love working with
these larger organizations that also

are able to support aviation return.

I think that EA has done a lot
for the aviation community, so it's

great to be working with an
organization that I can support and,

you know, advocate for.

That would be probably the
biggest thing.

Things that I regret.

I think my biggest regret with
Hangar 22 is not scaling it sooner.

It's.

I. I think that we spent
probably a year or two where we're

not that we were stagnant, but
we're kind of waiting, like, okay,

we're going to move to the States.

Where are we going to end up?

Are we going to go to Atlanta?

The hiring was going crazy.

So then the question.

I was like, will I really get
into legacy right away?

Like, what's going to happen?

I don't know.

We.

We were like.

We were so lost.

And so there were so many
times, like, about a year and a half

ago, we almost pulled the
trigger on a large roaster.

We're like, but do we want to
pull the trigger and bring it here

just to roast and then move it
back down and pay to have it moved

and shipped back?

I'm like, do we really want to
be doing something like this?

So we.

We were like, I don't think
this is necessarily the best idea.

So we waited.

Looking back, that's fine.

I just wish.

I wish we knew we were going
to end up being down here.

So I would have, you know,
pulled the trigger on a larger roaster

and started to scale the
business a bit better, because I

think we would have been a
little bit further ahead of the curve.

Like, we didn't start roasting
on the new roaster until pretty much,

like, a few months before
Airventure started, which was, you

know, our previous roaster was
great, but for Airventure, like,

we turned over well over a
thousand pounds of coffee for the

week.

Like, it was.

It was a lot.

It was a lot of roasting.

And it's a short period of
time because you never want to roll

roast months in advance
because then the product's not fresh.

You want to make it as fresh
as possible.

I'd say, like, mo.

The vast majority of the
coffee bags that people could take

home and use weeks after was
roasted within a week of the actual

show starting.

So it's.

We try to keep it as fresh as
we possibly can.

I just take.

I schedule my vacation time
and time off so that I can accommodate

all that and then make it happen.

Yeah.

But I do wish that we were to.

I. I think I. I wish that I
were to grow the business, especially

during a time in my life where
I had more time not having our daughter.

Not that she's like, she's the
best thing in the world.

Yeah.

But at a time when we didn't
have our daughter, at a time when

I was flying, When I was
flying on corporate, like, man, I

flew, I don't know, 250, 300
hours a year, like, I wasn't working.

I was relaxing.

What Are you doing man business?

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And now here I'm like, I got
to do this, I got to do this, I got

to do this.

And, and you know, it's just
non stop.

It's been, it's been crazy.

And then on top of that, I'm
also volunteering with her, with

my airline union as well, has
been occupying a lot of my time on

top of everything else.

And I'm like, this is wild.

Like, I.

This is why I'm like, so eager
to get to the next job where I can

just kind of, you know, know, relax.

I'm trying to, you know, be as
good of a, as an airline pilot and

as a father and a husband as I
can, but it is, it's tough to do

all of that at once.

Business owner, it's.

It's tough.

It's definitely tough.

Yeah.

Because I mean, something has
to take.

I mean, something has to take
precedence in the moment, right?

Like you either sacrificing
time as being a business owner, you're

sacrificing time away from
being a father, or you're sacrificing

time away from flying and
progressing your career.

It's like you can't do
everything at once.

So at some point you have to
make it a step decision.

And like, all right, this is
when I'm hanging out with my family,

my daughter.

This is protected time for them.

This is business time.

It might be when your daughter
goes to sleep, but at some point

you have to make a sacrifice
and you have to choose one of the,

the three or whatever it may
be, how many choices you have.

When you add union stuff, the
four, you have to sacrifice something

to do that, which is very,
very difficult.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

It's definitely, it's difficult.

It's very rewarding at the end.

Like when you, when you serve
that last stop at Airventure and

you shut the machine off, it's
like, wow, it's done.

Like, you're relieved.

But then it's also kind of
bittersweet because then you leave

and you're like, dang, it's over.

Like, that was a lot of fun.

And it's all over now.

I have to wait a whole year.

But the weeks and months
leading up to Airventure is always

extremely stressful.

Our planning starts in January
for that, so it's always a lot of

work.

So we only get a couple months
where we get to be off and then we

get right from back into it.

And that's okay, though.

Like, this year, I think next
year we're gonna be a lot more prepared.

But it would have been nice,
like I said, to have the bigger roaster

sooner and find a place, you
know, that we knew we were gonna

move to and just kind of.

And just commit to that and
not have to worry.

But we just did not know what
was gonna happen.

Like, even with the, with,
with hiring and the forecasts of

hiring in the states, like,
everything's up and down.

Every month is different.

Like one month you'll have
recruiters like, no, no, no, you.

You need a thousand hours pic.

We won't concern you.

And then they're like, oh, no,
actually, next year, we're apparently

going to hire 2,000 pilots.

We need you get your
applications in.

You're like, what?

So everything is all
constantly changing.

And that clouded our decision
making as well for the business for

a little bit.

So now that everything's kind
of settled down, we know the path

forward.

And right now it is time to
start scoping out which airports

we're going to be working,
working with, where we're going to

have that airport, coffee
shop, and roastery.

So once that happens, then
that's kind of the next step.

I don't think it's going to be
around the corner necessarily.

I don't think, like next year
we're gonna have this coffee roastery,

like this awesome cafe in the
middle of a really neat airport.

I don't think that's gonna
happen that quickly, but I don't

know.

We'll see.

I definitely think within the
next two years.

That's where I do want to
land, like, comfortably.

I just want to find the right spot.

Yeah.

Well, I wish you the best.

I mean, it's good coffee.

Like I said, it's awesome to
have at EAA at Oshkosh.

Said the coffee before is
terrible and it's free, which is

also really, really nice.

So if you haven't gone before,
it's at the Textron booth.

You can, you can go get it there.

And you guys are always
serving with a smile on your face,

even though the line's always
like 10 people deep.

And you're like, all right,
what, what, what's next?

What's next?

What's next?

So it's awesome.

I do have a rapid fire section
for you, and then we can wrap up

and, and let you go.

So you can go hang out with
your daughter or do some more work.

But I got some rap fire questions.

You just answer as fast as you can.

Don't try to think twice.

Just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

You Ready?

Okay.

Go for it.

All right.

What's something you wish you
knew before you were a pilot?

The amount of time away from home.

Who in the industry would you
like to meet?

Most.

First thought was actually
Chuck Yeager, but unfortunately,

I don't have that opportunity.

That would be my first choice.

Yeah.

All right.

Cool.

There you go.

You go.

Favorite thing about aviation?

Airplanes.

Hardest flight you've ever flown?

A triple leg red eye from Vancouver.

Yeah.

Yeah.

All the way back in a transcon
at the end.

At the tail end.

So it was.

It was two legs, and then we
did a transcon all the way Toronto

in one night.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What's your favorite flight
you've ever flown?

That's a great question.

I did an aerobatic flight in
Harvard and was able to log an hour

of that flight.

That was.

That was probably some of the
most fun I've ever had.

Favorite airport to land at?

Unpopular opinion?

Jfk.

Because every single day is a
complete different.

Different nightmare or a great day.

And you never know what's
going to happen.

I. I do.

I'm one of those people who do
like the thrill of not knowing what's

going to happen next and
trying to make the best out of it.

What's your least favorite
airport to land at?

Ah, that's a great question.

I have no idea.

I don't even have an Air pride.

I don't have a single one that
I dread.

Yeah.

Just loves airplanes.

Yeah.

There's nothing.

Nothing.

SAF.

Stands out where I'm like, I
hate this place.

Would you rather fly IFR or vfr?

Ifr.

Daytime or nighttime?

Daytime.

Would you rather fly over
mountains, beaches or the city?

Mountains.

Airbus or Boeing?

Boeing.

I'm heavily biased on that answer.

Favorite airline?

Delivery.

Your future employer could be
watching this, so be careful.

Yeah, I was about to say.

Yeah.

How do I answer this?

Very carefully.

What's the hardest check ride
you've had?

Private CRJ or ERJ.

If you had to fly one ERJ?

Piper, hands down.

Cessna 141 training or 61 training?

141.

Last two questions.

What is the biggest regret you
have in your career if you have one?

Not going to the airline sooner.

When I had the opportunity to
do a seal.

Same.

What is the biggest win of
your career.

Going to the airlines and
being fortunate enough to.

Biggest win of my career is
being able to be an airline pilot

at the age that, like, I'm 25
now, but when I started it, I. I

was very, very lucky to get
into it at that age.

Love it.

Dude.

Well, hey, man, I appreciate
you coming to the podcast.

It was a lot of fun.

I know at Oshkosh, we joked I
was coming up to, like, oh, you're

the enemy, right?

Like a different coffee company.

The most Canadian answer I've
ever heard.

Like, there's room for both of
us, man.

I love Pilots Coffee.

And I was like, oh, so I can't
do anything but just love you guys

and what you do.

So I wish you the best.

And whatever airport you
choose, I'm biased toward North Carolina.

You know, there's a lot of
great airports here.

I can always get some coffee.

So come to North Carolina, man.

It's a great place.

It's better than.

Yeah, I. I'll have to say that
North Carolina is absolutely stunning

and beautiful.

So, I mean, who knows?

We'll.

Maybe we'll end up being there.

Maybe we do a pilot's coffee collaboration.

Have the airport roaster and
cafe right there.

I love it.

Dude, that sounds like a plan.

All right.

Thanks again for having me.

I really appreciate it.

Anytime.

I appreciate it.

And before you go, if anyone's
never heard of Hang 22 Coffee, what's

the website?

What's your Instagram, kind of
give yourself a shout out?

Yeah, it's hanger22coffee.com
and then we're at Hangar 22 Coffee

on pretty much every social,
so you can find us there.

You know, make sure you follow
us and like our content and otherwise.

Go get a bag of coffee.

We should.

Maybe.

We'll have to work on getting
you guys a discount code or something,

but otherwise, yeah, grab a
bag of coffee to enjoy and otherwise

I'll.

I'll be the one roasting it,
getting it all ready and shipping

it out to you guys.

So thanks again for the support.

Yeah.

Use code Pilots Coffee is
better and you get 10.

I'm just kidding.

Just joking.

But I really do appreciate it.

Go buy the coffee.

It is good.

He gave me a bag at Oshkosh,
so I need to buy one to support,

but I drank it right away.

It was delicious.

So highly recommend.

He's probably drinking around
right now, but go buy something.

It's great.

Yep.

Thanks, Justin.

I appreciate that.

Yeah, anytime.

That's a wrap from today's podcast.

I hope you enjoyed it if you did.

Like I said, YouTube.com pilot
the pilot.

I actually don't know that's a
URL, but just Google YouTube, pilot

the pilot and it will pop up.

Leave a subscribe comment and
just let us know you're there.

So that way we know that we
can continue to build over there

and dominate the aviation
podcast ass world.

We are so back.

We are doing weekly, we're
doing weekly on Pilot to pilot on

YouTube and we're also doing
some just video content as well on

Instagram.

So we seem to be getting back
into the groove of things.

Thank you so much for putting
up with a little bit of a pause in

content.

But we are back.

We are gonna kill it.

We're gonna continue dropping
some epic, epic stuff.

We also have something cool
planned that will come out at the

end of this year.

Nick's probably listening to
this, the editor and he's like crap,

I didn't know you wanted out
this year.

But we're hoping to have
something cool come out here soon,

so make sure you keep looking
out for it.

You can also sign up for our
email subscriber list on our website

pilot pilot hq.com because
that's where we will most likely

announce it and also Instagram
at Pilot Pilot AV Nation.

I hope you're having a great
day and as always, happy flying.

Pilot Pilot LLC is compensated
to make recommendations to his or

her followers regarding the
services of RAA or Allworth Airline

Advisors.

Companies of Allworth
Financial LP or Allworth Promoter

is not an employee or
investment advisor Representative

of Allworth.

Promoter is a current client
of Allworth Allworth based Promoter

a fee of $4,000 a month for
sponsorship of the Pilot Pilot podcast.

Due to the compensation
arrangement between Allworth and

Promoter, Promoter has an
incentive to recommend Allworth resulting

in material conflict of interest.

Promoter's role on behalf of
Allworth is limited strictly to making

recommendations regarding the
services of Allworth, introducing

or referring prospective
clients to Allworth.

Promoter has no responsibility
with respect to Alworth's Investment

Advisor or other advisory services.