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Some Future Day evaluates technology at the intersection of culture & law.
Join Marc Beckman and his esteemed guests for insider knowledge surrounding how you can use new technologies to positively impact your life, career, and family. Marc Beckman is Senior Fellow of Emerging Technologies and an Adjunct Professor at NYU, CEO of DMA United, and a member of the New York State Bar Association’s Task Force on Cryptocurrency and Digital Assets.
Marc Beckman: Constance C.R. White, welcome to Some Future Day.
Constance C.R. White: Thank you, Marc Beckman. It's a pleasure. Pleasure to be here. The
Marc Beckman: known you for so many years, decades, I think, and I've never referred to you as Constance C.R. White. And I have to admit, I don't think I remember what C.R. Stands for. What's the C.R. Part of your name?
Constance C.R. White: CR are my middle initials given to me on my government papers my birth certificate. Charmianne Roslid. And I think my parents named me after, I think, people like, um, who were appearing on screen at the time. I think of Rosalind Russell, I think of Constance and Allison McKenzie. I have a sister named Allison.
And for people who are, who are experts or fans of vintage TV, Paint and Plates. There were two characters in Paint and Plates. One Constance MacKenzie, one Alice MacKenzie.
Marc Beckman: Oh, wow. So you and your sister have a lot to, um, to hold up to then.
That's a was name. to say a tone four, but okay, hold up Yeah.
Where were you born?
Constance C.R. White: was born in England and of Jamaican parents, and my Jamaican parents had immigrated from obviously, to England the colonial outreach for. People of the diaspora who they needed to come to England and work to help rebuild
all for joining us today, and we hope to see you again soon. Bye. Bye.
Bye.
Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. was trained to be an electrical engineer, all for joining us today, and we hope to see you again next time. as an important part of the infrastructure of the country at the time.
Marc Beckman: That's so brave for them to, um, you know, pick up and move like that, don't you think? I
mean, did you
ever speak with them about that? Like what it took for them emotionally to leave everything behind and, and, uh, to, to move forward for a better life, to be more impactful? all
Constance C.R. White: for joining us today, and we hope to see you again in the future. There's people who worked in the community and were And I asked my mother, um, we had long discussions about What all for joining us today. in There
are
a number of people we're working with and diverse people in World Bank and World Bank. we lived relatively comfortably, name is Jon Bumhoffer. I'm the CEO of,
Clingendael Institute.
I'm here to talk to you today about the modern hotelier, David Millili, Steve Carran, Clingendael Institute, friend shoring, Revinate, CRM, CEO, LodgIQ, Dr.
Elizabeth Haas, Pierre Gervois, AIG. her, notes and she said, you know, they were faced with A lot of times the early immigrants who were there, as I said, to help rebuild the country were faced with signs, which said, no. No, um, niggers, no dogs, you know, for rent, they wouldn't rent to anyone or anything in that category. so it was very difficult and they rebuilt a life, um, in Jamaica, which was their home.
And, and then, um, my parents divorced and my mother, after years of raising us. In Jamaica, moved to America, to Florida, to be exact. And she always talked about how grateful she was for the training of being a nurse, because that really helped her in all three countries in which she lived and Um, it really helped her create a life for five kids and, and for her.
Marc Beckman: Wow, that's, that's an incredible story. I can't believe I've known you all these years and I've never heard that.
Constance C.R. White: know. Few people know that story.
Marc Beckman: Well, thank you for sharing it. Now everybody's going to know it. But,
um, I feel like you have a lot of that in you. Um, you know, like you, since I've known you, you've always been a big advocate for, um, women's rights, for black people's rights. I feel like, um, you know, you've always been influenced by. With regards to a global vision, you're certainly not provincially, um, focused on New York and New York fashion. So I wonder how much of your mom is in you? How much are those experiences a part of what's made you who you are today? The
Constance C.R. White: Modern Hotelier, David Millili, Steve Carran, Stayflexi, Stayflexi, CRM, CEO, LodgIQ,
Dr.
Elizabeth Haas, Pierre Gervois, AIG.
father's child, but I, it's interesting what you think about each generation pushes against its previous generation. And I think about that in terms of my and for black people and black women especially.
And I didn't necessarily early on make the connection between. My parents work in England, and when I started taking on that, um, work myself. So, yeah, it's interesting that you say that, and I do think lived in three different countries has definitely informed my viewpoint as a woman, you know, in just living my life here now, and as a journalist.
Marc Beckman: Yeah, that's interesting. You know, it's, it's hard, I think, when we live in a, in a, um, time with so much tension and friction and you go back to the next generation and, you know, clearly they had. Yeah. major problems. Um, some are just still sustaining till today. Um, it's hard, hard, I think, for an individual to conjure up feelings of positivity, of goodness.
And, you know, again, I've known you for a long time, and you're really like one of the kindest people Um, individuals I've met,
um, wondering like
how, how do you find the energy then in the face of such adversity or, or challenges of this nature? How do you find the energy to, um, be kind and level headed with everyone around you? Um, is that also something that maybe you found, um, a way to, uh, push through because of your mom?
Constance C.R. White: Wow, Marc, taking me to places I have rarely if never gone in interviews. I'm usually only speaking about fashion, but it's very interesting that you asked that. And I do appreciate the question because it gives me the chance to share with others. I'm a great believer in have to make a choice.
To be positive, to live positively. I'm a great believer in the goodness of single person. Some have more goodness than others in terms of how they behave, how they act, and some people have the pain and challenges that life inevitably brings. They have those things shape them to think negatively.
BeBad Actors. really believe we have to claim, claim our joy, claim our, our lovability, if that's a word, if it's not, I just made it up. you know, we, we are valuable, we're lovable, and we need to come from that place. We're here to, Realize our greatest selves and we're here to help others.
And yes, one of the things, um, by osmosis, I definitely took from my mother is my mother, as I said, was a nurse, which is a very service oriented profession,
Marc Beckman: Sure.
Constance C.R. White: self sacrificing profession. And I, I watched her minister to people, serve people, um, particularly had the opportunity to do that when. We lived in Jamaica and I'd go out with her the countryside or if she was working in the city.
And it's a real job of great one on one service. Um, and my mother was also extremely humble perhaps to a fault, even. And I definitely, what that means is, I definitely absorbed that. By osmosis watching her and and what that means is every other person is as important as you are you're more or no better than anyone else and no one else is better you And we all need to, the healthier, more helpful thing is to operate from that place.
And I think her humility really translates into, um, positivity and she was, you know, she was very positive to five children, even when divorced too, in those days, even when we fell on very hard times financially. as you know, Divorce years ago and more going backwards was a changer, a life changer, especially for women.
And certainly my mother was in that group where, know, we went from really comfortable, solidly middle class, Lifestyle to one where my mother would scrounge around in her purse for lunch money literally trying to pull out the last penny to make sure we had enough money to buy lunch. A lot of times she didn't have it and she would go to the school and nurses were extremely, you know, as were teachers, very respected.
And, you know, she would open up an account. You know, I owe you, like, you know, I need for my kids to get a healthy lunch, especially my brothers who are playing sports, would say, you know, would you open an account for me? And when she could pay it, she paid it little by little, paid it back little by little.
So, you know, all of that informed me, yes, to be mindful of of people and to, think, be positive open and accepting of others.
Marc Beckman: So, you know, that's an incredible background. Thank you so much for sharing it. I, you know, it's really, really inspirational too. Um, it's interesting that you mentioned your mom, um, has this, uh, writer's itch as well, because obviously your career in writing has been prolific, um, including the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, and then of course the, uh, Amazing book that you created, How to Slay, which is really, really one of a kind, but also reflecting back on it today and its content, you look at the history of black fashion.
You look at the impact on the history of black fashion and culture, um, and how it permeates into, uh, you know, from our streets into government, politics, music, art, and beyond. So it kind of is, it really does show that Constance. White, Constance White's, um, Global Vision, Global Perspective, uh, can you take a minute and just talk a little bit about, um, this amazing survey on black style and fashion that you've created, How to Slay?
Constance C.R. White: Thank you, Marc. And you were such an important part of that, um, getting that book published. You know, it was, as I had the privilege and the pleasure of covering as you said, for a variety of publications and going around literally the world to cover fashion. It, it occurred to me that we were really, really leaving out the very important and impactful contributions of black people.
And so how to slay about was part of my Life's work in terms of always trying to make sure those contributions of African Americans and other Black people around the world were included in the work that I was doing as a writer, as an editor, as an image and selector. And then the book was a look back.
It had two purposes. It was one, a look back so we could see, we'd have somewhere documented in one place. Some of the impact that black people have had on fashion, because it's so often overlooked and we're still in the process of trying to make space for that. And number two, I also secondarily, as you know, it's a beautiful coffee table book.
I also secondarily wanted to celebrate black women and black women's beauty and black women's style. And so they're all these beautiful photographs, as you'll attest to, you know,
Marc Beckman: It's gorgeous.
Constance C.R. White: yes, take, you know, Naomi Campbell, taken by Patrick Demarchelier, people, models you never heard of, or just black women who are wearing, gorgeous styles by everyone from everyone.
Hall, a black designer based in L. A. who is a trailblazer and also worked at Halston as creative director, who is not as well known, and
Marc Beckman: Yeah, but fantastically
talented and a great human being too.
Constance C.R. White: Yes, absolutely. uh, and then, you know, and then there are also the men, you know, who, Alan Iverson, who moved the culture in such a huge way.
it was important. To me, to also have that underlining theme and gift informing on Black women as well in there, um, because image that's a passion of mine. I'm not a social scientist, but image is one of the ways in which bias is expressed and in which we can, on the flip side, on the positive side, Use it to get to that place where we're all respecting each other, and we're aware of our bias, and we're working to end our bias.
And while we talk about of course, and have to, so important job discrimination access to, to education, access to clean water, all these things that impact Um, our black communities and very vivid daily life. We also need to talk about, acknowledge and work toward using the image, seeing how image is used to bludgeon and other black people.
and Black women in particular way.
Marc Beckman: So, can you give a specific example then, when you talk about, um, image, uh, the use of images that ends up having, uh, that causes bias at a, at a ubiquitous level? Is there an iconic, um, image of a black woman? Whether it's been in fashion or not, but a part of media that you can really focus on that you would say, you know, this image caused irreparable damage on a massive scale in America.
It was put out there and it created bias, um, against the black community.
Constance C.R. White: Oh, whoa. There are so many
Marc Beckman: Yeah, give me, give me one big iconic
image.
of a woman specifically, of a black woman.
Constance C.R. White: of a black woman that caused specific bias on her. It's hard to in this moment say one image per se, open it up. I'll do some descriptives. For instance, when you look at it, one of the things is when you constantly look at the way Hollywood television, movies, center white women, center black women with Eurocentric features, meaning the color of the skin, the shape of the nose, the type of the hair, the way that is centered, is over and over and over again, is very harmful to Black girls and Black women.
Um, if you're a girl, you grow up seeing those images over and over. You look at the way that videos, let's not leave out videos too, and you look at the way that Black women are frequently, for example, to use one example, frequently murdered in images, in a movie, in a, a TV show, in a video. I remember there was the, the Tuskegee Airmen film that was done, um, came out of Hollywood.
You have huge, you have huge contribution on the face of it tto the American history canon and to huge contribution to acknowledging also the sacrifice of African Americans in the war. And this movie came out, all these, you know, it starred about four or five black men and it included, you know, a lot of white men too.
And it also included a few women and the women who were included were just a couple of white women. There were no black women centered in this movie about black men serving the country so heroically. that's very damaging in and of itself, and it's very damaging when you see that kind of thing over and over again.
Um, movies, you know, there have been quite a few movies documenting the hip hop culture, made in that spirit, and they are very denigrating to black women. Black women are made one of two things. Either they're invisible. oh, they didn't contribute anything, they weren't here, which of course is a big lie, or they are sidelined, they're denigrated.
Marc Beckman: Yeah. I think the denigration of black women, um, through the hip hop community is an interesting topic. It's something that Wynton Marsalis and I have spoke about a lot. He's really, really a big advocate, um, against people, um, denigrating black women specifically within not just video format, but the lyrics of some of
the hip hop
songs.
Um, and I think it's becoming.
Constance C.R. White: right, the lyrics, too.
Marc Beckman: For sure, and I think it's becoming a generational issue, um, and I'm wondering that like you as a mother of a woman now who is not just intelligent and attractive, but also is a creator, she's a performer, Um, what type of advice would you give for her, to her generation, the next generation as far as, um, inspiring them to move away from these types of images, from these types of messages, um, how important it is, like how would you guide your daughter's generation and the next generation as far as, um, you know, overcoming this hurdle that results in widespread bias of black women against black women?
Constance C.R. White: Well, I would say two things. One is, on a very human level, is know your worth. Know your own worth. Um, hopefully you're taught it in your, your home and your immediate community. But if you are not, if you don't get those messages, be your own teacher. Be both the student and the teacher. And know your worth.
Know that you are more than this. Know that, you know, you were born this way. worthy and beautiful.
So that is the first thing, because there are things in life that are within our control and there are things that are not. And then the second thing I would say is to be active. You may not be able to always, 100 percent of your time, be active, but be active, be involved in fighting it. And you know what?
Marc, be woke, woke means coming out of the black community where, you know, they've taken, people have taken the word and tried to denigrate it as well. Tried to sideline it and make it into something positive, but just because, making it something negative rather, but just because someone says it is doesn't mean it's so.
It's a very positive, empowering, word because it comes from a very positive and current concept that black people needed to survive and people needed to survive which which is be aware of what the world is around you and in
Marc Beckman: Yeah.
Constance C.R. White: case That's that's what woke means. That's all it means and in the In the African American perspective, in the Black diaspora perspective, woke, it's consciousness, it's being conscious.
Understand how systemic racism works but One of the wonderful things about the time we're living in now, one of the ways that we have made progress is that I think a lot more people are conscious of systemic racism and how, oh wait a minute, I didn't really see how all of this is woven into the fabric of our community, our societies that we built over decades and decades, hundreds of years.
And so, you know, when black people say, be woke, I would say to these, girls and then young women, be woke about what is happening. Like you can wear your hair straight But understand, you may be doing it for very pure, innocent reasons. You know, I want to change up my hairstyle. I want to have this look.
But understand the Eurocentricity, the oppression of it, so that you can be free from it and you know why you're doing it. You're doing it from a point of empowerment for yourself, not disempowerment and you don't even understand why you're doing it.
Marc Beckman: Yeah, that's incredible advice, and those are obviously super powerful words. I really appreciate you sharing them with me, um, personally, too, as like a white guy. Um, it's good to, you know, learn a little bit, frankly, so I appreciate that. Going back to how to slay, though, and image making, Back to the issue of bias coming from, you know, Hollywood and, and beyond, uh, you really did a, um, great job, I think, in, uh, overcoming and pushing, uh, images of strong Black women out there that are inspirational, that should push against that bias machine, that bias media machine that you're highlighting.
I mean, to name a few, Rihanna, um, Michelle Obama, Beyonce, I mean, there are some real iconic. individuals that are gorgeous and strong and enormously successful in different pillars from entertainment and the arts to politics and beyond as authors and really incredible people. Who would you say is, you know, the most, um, let's say, uh, iconic individual In the book, throughout all of history, if you could pick one, um, black woman in How to Slay that really highlights that, like, amazing image, that amazing human being that pushes against the bias machine you're talking about, who would it be from the, um, subjects that you examined in How to Slay?
Constance C.R. White: Oh, I will. Whoa. That's an easy question. You know, at first when you started the question, I thought to myself, I'm formulating an answer already, right? As you're speaking, and I'm thinking, Marc, I, I can't pick, you know, you can't pick One.
Marc Beckman: One.
Constance C.R. White: mean, there's so many beautiful, amazing, culture moving, society moving, black women out there.
But by the time you've finished,
Marc Beckman: Give me one from
all of history. Go all the way back.
Constance C.R. White: well, I, your book. well, in my book, which was Modern History, um, it, which is in my book, it would have to be Michelle Obama.
Bear in mind that in my book, as we said, you know, there's, there's Rihanna, there's Beyoncé, Diana Ross, Even
Marc Beckman: Josephine Baker.
Constance C.R. White: Baker, there's Mounia, there's Angela Davis, there's Brave people. N Pepa, you know, these incredible women who are in my book. How to Slay. But you have to, we have to say Michelle Obama because of the way she has shaped, put herself forth and she has helped to shape Um, how we as black women see ourselves, um, she has helped to shape how others see black women.
done, you know, she picked up as her, her work as First Lady, helping veterans. And black men and women over index in terms of their participation in the armed forces. Um, so, but she was, she was working for everyone regardless of color, all veterans, all veterans families. and she picked up nutrition, which is so important for, um, obviously, anyone's health, but it's particularly important in marginalized communities, which are food deserts where.
This is an example of where we talk about and people are awakening to the systemic racism that exists. That there are laws and behaviors and codes laid down for hundreds of years to disempower, disenfranchise black people. And the system works, one thing helping the other thing, right? So you get things like thinking, well, what is a food desert?
You know, people having good food have to do with racism and bias. well, a lot. And so, Michelle Obama, with substantive issues she took on, uh, she's a trained lawyer. Her, her So, speaking of her career success, her professional success, speaking of her as a mother, as a daughter, um, as a wife, one of the ways that currently, very vividly, just started becoming more, um, more common in the past couple of years that Black women are sidelined is how Black women are portrayed in advertising.
From
Marc Beckman: yeah, I see it for sure.
Constance C.R. White: popular experts these days to
Marc Beckman: I feel like
they're trading snake oil though, right?
Constance C.R. White: Everyone's having trouble. But black women, often what I started an informal on your podcast, turn on your podcast. Here you go. the Modern Hotelier, David Millili, Steve Carran, Stayflexi, SOPs, Clingendael Institute, friend shoring, Revinate, Jon Bumhoffer, Revinate, CRM, CEO, LodgIQ, Dr. Elizabeth Haas, all for joining us
today,
and we hope
to see
you all
if you, Marc,
Bye.
Bye. Bye.
Bye.
Bye. Bye. the Modern Hotelier, David Millili, Steve Carran, Stayflexi, Clingendael Institute, friend shoring, Revinate, Jon Bumhoffer, Revinate, CRM, CEO, LodgIQ, Dr. Elizabeth Haas, all for joining us today. Yes. Yes.
Particularly with black men.
Marc Beckman: Yeah, I see it for sure. I know that there's been like an increasing amount of, um, mixed relationships, multicultural types of backgrounds with regards to actors
Constance C.R. White: Right.
Marc Beckman: um, ad campaigns now. I'm not sure, um, what the motivation is there, uh, when they do that, frankly. I think it makes sense. I think we have more and more families that are blended together in this day and age, and that's fantastic.
Obviously, I have a lot of personal Friends in relationships with children that have built families that are immensely amazing there. I think something you're touching on, though, when you talk about othering, which is important, is also the strength and power of a familial nucleus, and also something that I think has been marginalized for decades, is the strength of the black man in those families.
Like I honestly, Constance, I didn't expect to get into this type of a conversation with
you, but what are we going to and we got to get into fashion because this is our fashion episode, but business?
Yeah, but, but just like, just to like, you know, since you raised the topic, um, I, I really see, like, I have a lot of black friends, men who are, you
know,
critical to their family and have, you know, as a result,
because they have a strong vision,
they work hard, they are raising their, um, children. With inspirational words, putting them into places to be successful, whether it's academics or on the field, wherever it might be. And I feel like society has, generally speaking, beyond the advertising space, um, uh, kind of, uh, pigeonholed black men, um, and, and those strong black men, those strong family, Oriented black men have really been in my, in my mind, at least, um, you know, I guess I'm curious what you think, but in my mind, I think they've been marginalized.
And
Constance C.R. White: with That I would like us to thank our panelists
for
their kind contributions. Thanks,
everyone. Okay.
of Black men and Black women in the family. Let's just talk about that in relationships, just sticking to that for a moment. You don't see that in everyday media images, whether it's ads or films, or I think that's what we together are for joining us this, all for joining us today, And I look forward to seeing you in the future.
do to me and what does it do to the young woman or
Marc Beckman: Totally agree.
Constance C.R. White: who's
Marc Beckman: I totally agree. And then what, really, what does it do to communities at large? Because the truth, in my opinion, is that the power of, um, a black nuclear family and how they interact then with their neighbors and in the community, I think that's more powerful and more effective at pushing forward and being impactful with regards to the community.
Uh, topics that might be important to that community, whether it's healthcare or, um, issues that are surrounding income or, um, social justice topics, of course. I think that at that community level, at the ground level, you can be more impactful, similar to the way that, like, MLK impacted. He knew every single person in his church, what they needed, what those families wanted at the grassroots level and pushed back up against the government.
I think that the Strong nuclear family concept. By the way, black or white, right? Like, really, black or white, the strong nuclear family concept is critical in creating strong community movements and then pushing up. I don't think we could just rely on, like, the federal government to be impactful for those needs that each community needs, right?
Like, I think it really starts at a local level with the family.
Constance C.R. White: Um, think it does. I think we do have to make room for, you know, we know the NUCO family and, and the benefits of it and, you know, how it is a, um, it's something that some people aspire to. I think we also do have to make room for different kinds of effective families, especially as we course. I'm Tom Clancy and I'm the Regional Manager of the World of Work and Development at the That's my name on the list, and I'm here to talk about Parkland. I'm a former university student. I'm a member of the Parkland communications team. I've been working in the health and social care, I've been working in the biotech, before
there's a role
for joining us today, and we hope to see you again next time. human beings, like when you talk about for joining us.
today, and we hope to see you all again soon. And some of it is by dint of birth, right?
Just, I think those of us who are, who call it that, more fortunate.
Marc Beckman: Yeah, I think empathy matters for sure.
all
Constance C.R. White: for joining us today, and we hope to see you all again soon. Um, I wanted a better school for my oldest kid at the time and I wanted a community where my kids could see other black families as well.
And it was a mix, I ended up choosing a very mixed community. I would say it tilted predominantly but it was a very mixed community and all the white people are almost gone now. And I bring that up because that's part of the system, that's systemic racism at work.
Marc Beckman: Wow. So going back to Michelle Obama and segueing into fashion, um, you know, we, we, it's funny cause we both spoke about this. We said, we're not going to get into politics and all of these issues and right. But Michelle Obama at the,
uh, DNC. say the political, I mean two things, Gloria Steinem would say, right, the Okay. is political. I agree. thing we also said, Marc, is we noted how, but you know what, fashion is in everything now. So,
Totally agree. But let's talk about Michelle Obama's fashion
at the DNC. I mean, she wore months and her hair looked incredible. Um, so you just highlighted her as like the most important, iconic person featured in How to Slay. But let's use that as a segue. Let's use the DNC stage as a segue. I mean, she was definitely the winner when it comes to fashion.
fashion for what was it four days of events i'm sure you would agree i i'll let you answer that but like let's talk a little bit about what michelle obama um put on
as far as her fashion showed get some argument from fans of Ella Emhoff, right, but
arguably but michelle obama really killed
it i thought her
her mons outfit was like way ahead of the curve her
hair was
like a big statement right
Constance C.R. White: Huge statement. Um, she, she represented black style on that stage. She represented, I'm sure, first and foremost for most people, most Americans who were watching, she represented beauty. She represented, Ending our talk
at this time.
Hi. My name is David Millili a. k.
a. Dr. Elizabeth
Haas. I'm the president of CRM, under the auspices of the So, I'm going to do an overview of how the New York Capital Advisors Program was started.
And again, I
have my friends, I don't know if you have heard of it, but, it basically was a bunch of a real service, you know, I think that's the real gift Uh, her husband rather, follows her, right, as he said, like, oh no, and you saw that moment of, you know, black coupledom, black love between it was great. on the stage and loving, and we, we just don't see that, you know, we just don't see that Nowadays, I'm surprised when I see it in the media, it is all around me. So it's not, um, it's not fair to Black women, it's not helpful to society to have this, you know, very warped depiction of Black love and Black family and negation of it.
Marc Beckman: So, I think we're living in a time period that is certainly upside down and the media is attracted to, um, showing, you know, fires and car crashes and blood, right? And that gets the headlines and that gets the clicks and it gets the money and that creates sustainability and I think that's part of the problem, right?
They're not really showing the love because it's not, um, you know, it's not attention getting. All right,
sponsors aren't looking for that. I would push back on that, Marc, because, you know, You know, my argument is, while everything you just said is true, they do show the flip side, and when it's shown, um, they're showing it, but it's predominantly white people. It's not, you know, it's white love. It's not, you're not seeing black couples.
You're seeing white couples, or you're seeing black men and white women, or you're seeing black men and Asian women. Or you, you know, you see a few Asian couples too, but you, you don't see, um, the point I want to make is you don't see the black women depicted in a way that shows desirability and their womanhood.
Nowadays, I'm actually surprised and could make a much, um, Short a list. When I do see it, like in an ad or in the movies or something, it's like, Oh, there's a black man, a black woman in
I wonder, it would be interesting, you said,
Constance C.R. White: them doesn't die at the end.
Marc Beckman: it's crazy, so like, it's interesting, like, you mentioned that you're, like, been doing, like, a little bit of an informal study. I'd love to take a look at that and, and see, like, what, you know, if it's a minority, are we at, like, 2%, 3%? It's got to be a small fraction.
Just thinking off the top of my head, I see your point. I think there are It seems like an increase of mixed cultures coming together in these ad campaigns, more so than anything, right? I think you
got
Constance C.R. White: white on white, then white and mixed, And, then black and black. wonderful. And it's relevant too. Sure. in one direction. Yeah. 10 ads with mixed couples, going to see. Um, you're not going to see many black women. You will see black men, but you're not going to see a black man with a woman or a black woman with a white man, I've seen one or two of them recently popping up, but by and large, that's, you know, statistically what they're
So,
that's a problem.
Marc Beckman: so Constance, you're like an image maker, right? Like your entire career putting people on the covers of, you know, important magazines like Essence, creating books, and also as an image maker, um, in the fashion space, are there other Black women who are image makers that are echoing the sentiment and anybody that's really being impactful with this type of vision, like to push forward with this movement of we need to have black women and black men, black
people in campaigns, like.
who else, which other image makers are doing a good job in the fashion space?
Constance C.R. White: Um, I like the word you use, push forward with this, movement. We perhaps need to create a movement. There, there's not a movement. don't hear people talking about it. When I bring it up, I'll bring it up to other Black women. I even bring it up to some Black men too, and they're very aware of it. The minute I bring it up, they're very aware of it.
Um, a few people frame it as, as rubbing out the Black family. Thank you. what
Marc Beckman: Wow,
Constance C.R. White: to do. I always
Marc Beckman: that's crazy.
Constance C.R. White: of talking about black women in that role as, you know, the romantic part or the life partner. Some people frame it as an attack on the black family. so, no, I don't know.
People, there are a lot of, you know, great editors who are bringing more Black women to the front, whether these are forefront, whether these are editors of media or magazines or ads, or they're casting videos. You know, there are a lot of, there's a lot of that going on. and that's good, right? That's been happening now for a few years.
Black Lives Matter did make an impact. we're seeing more of that.
Marc Beckman: Well, you know, with fashion week upon us and just, um, looking at, you know, the number of luxury brands that are run by white men compared to black men and certainly black women, I mean, it dwarfs in
comparison. So, hmm. Right.
So, so I wonder then, um, if the creative director is the visionary of this brand, of these brands, like, literally, you could go, we could go through every single brand and I'm sure you would agree.
Like,
I, I don't even
know who, if you want to mention a few, um, I know Valentino has a black creative director. I mean, we could
go through
it and it's, it's really not, um, uh, I, I, I imagine you could probably count on one hand at this point, right? Like, Uh, it's pretty, it's pretty remarkable. So if the creative directors have the power to drive for the forward, the vision of the brand, not just starting with apparel and accessories, but the brand's position in campaigns, do you think that fashion could get over this hurdle of, um, not depicting enough of, um,
Constance C.R. White: Mm
Marc Beckman: you know,
black
people in these settings, let's say?
all
Constance C.R. White: for joining us today, and We, hope to see you again in the future. Bye. Bye.
into the future. I think it's one of the things that will define fashion future is that it has become and will continue to be a big culture driver.
So fashion can certainly help and this, you know, let's not overlook the fact that this is something that impacts across all categories, right? You're talking about food, shopping to get your groceries, shopping for a, A new windshield, and I bring that up for a reason, we're talking about automobile, anyone who advertises, the creative directors of advertising companies, anyone who advertises is having an impact and can have a big impact to change this amidst fashion and Um, ironically, I've seen an ad, I brought up windshield because Safelite, a company that fixes windshields and is doing a lot of advertising on television recently, they stand out that they have they depict couple just going about their business fixing, getting their windshield fixed.
And it stands out because it's so rare to see that.
I think it's Dolce Gabbana has an ad where they depict a white male and a black female to sell, they're selling their fragrance in this particular ad in it. It also comes on television. I think that, yeah, fashion can absolutely be a part of, it would sort of be, um, groundbreaking and pace setting to be a part of this change.
I
Marc Beckman: topic of, um, bias and, and, um, racism and, and gender equality, Unless you want to stay there. I'm happy to stay there really. But, um, I'm curious, like what's your perspective as far as the state of fashion now? Like Fashion Week is here and we're going to see some exciting things with some of the biggest brands.
Which brands do you think are just generally speaking, creating the most compelling, um, visions right now, as it relates to apparel, accessories, fragrance, the ad campaigns, like who do you think are going to come out as the winners this fall? as it relates to, uh, brands, specifically. all so
Constance C.R. White: much for being here, and I look forward to seeing you all next time.
Bye. Bye. Bye. we're in a time of anxiety and because fashion is growing. And, you know, the numbers, I think the most recent numbers for this for joining us today, and we hope to see
you
again soon.
So,
uh, we have a few minutes left. So, uh, if you could just stand up for a second. So, uh, I'm going to go ahead and start the recording. So, uh, I'm going to start it. So, uh, I'm going to start
it. So,
uh, I'm going to start it. You shape it.
So, I think the brands that have been successful in the my name is Joel Korn, I'm the CEO of B& O, and I'm the executive director for the B& O Showroom, which is an annual event that's held every year at the B& O Showroom in. the We're On a,
4 day, 2 day, 5 day, 6 day, 7 day, 8 day, 9 day, 10 day, 12 day, 13
day, 14 day, 15 day, 16 day, 17 day, 18 day, 19 day, 20 day, 21 day, 22 day, 23 day. which are exploding and filling a need.
And at the same time, you have the luxury market, which is doing quite well. Not as well as it was a few years ago, but it's doing quite well and will continue. Um, to, I think, continue to do well, that's a direct, direction the consumer is going in. Um, so, when you think about Louis Vuitton,
Marc Beckman: there's a real one two
punch there at the leadership of Vuitton.
And we should talk about that a little bit. A little bit. It's pretty amazing actually that
Constance C.R. White: And, um, Ralph Lauren, Tory Burch. These are brands that have been doing well, have been making their way against the headwinds and there are headwinds in fashion and I think they'll continue to be important. And then there's a whole, um, a whole bunch of independent emerging brands.
to one degree or another, some of them are going to get stronger and some of them are going to shake out.
Marc Beckman: rich emerging brands. Are you excited about? Yeah.
Constance C.R. White: I, I, I am interested in Elena Velez, like her point of view. Sergio Hudson
much
for joining us, and
we hope to
see you again soon. Sally LaPointe.
Uh, those are some of them, and there are more.
Marc Beckman: Let's go back to Vuitton for a minute because I think it's really interesting when I talk about a one two punch.
It's like
a creative director and an art director and it's like this house that has, you know, really shifted its culture and its mindset. Um, maybe driven by commerce, maybe driven by other motives, but when Virgil was in place there, I think it was like the first step forward.
The fact that Pharrell is playing a role there, um, is important. I'm curious, like, what's your take on it? Let's start with, for example, Um, do you think that, uh, Pharrell's perspective of that brand, his recent collaboration with Timberland and, you know, how he's, um, reinventing the front row to a certain extent, like, do you think that's a, a business model that most luxury houses should be taking on right now?
Or is it unique because Pharrell has always been kind of in fashion and stylish. He's got his own fashion brands and beyond.
Constance C.R. White: for
joining us.
was certainly a good pick in that context.
The Modern
Hotelier, David Millili, Steve Carran, Stayflexi, SOPs, Clingendael
Institute,
friend shoring, Rem Korteweg, Pierre Gervois, AIG. The Modern Hotelier, David Millili, Steve Carran, Revinate, Dr. Elizabeth Haas, Pierre
all,
and I will turn it over to Craig to talk about the Modern Hotelier, David Millili, Steve
Carran, Stayflexi, SOPs,
Clingendael Institute, friend shoring, is part of what this world is now. You know, I remember when celebrities started moving into media, right. And we all started thinking, wow, you know, there goes our profession that we worked hard to, perfect and work at every day and a celebrity comes in and they get to, you know, edit a magazine or they start their own and so on.
you know, it's now par for the course, like get ready. There is a celebrity who. to do what you're doing. replace you.
Marc Beckman: But it's different today. It's like the celebrity is more than just an endorser, right? It's not just about putting Pharrell's name on, you know, an incredible iconic handbag. I mean, he's impacting product design. He's impacting, um, influencer marketing. He's impacting the front row in Paris. He's influencing
ad campaigns, the music.
It's, it's
so much more comprehensive than just, you know, the old, like the way we were brought up
with an
endorsement deal,
Constance C.R. White: right? you're absolutely right. I mean, he is, in Pharrell's case, at Louis Vuitton. He is bringing his, as Virgil did to, to, which is who he replaced, did to a certain extent as well. He's, I mean, Virgil Yeah. trained all for joining us today, And we hope to see you again soon. point of all
for joining us today, and
we hope to see you again soon. all for joining us today, and we hope to see you again in the next few weeks. This way of, um, bringing life to a brand, um, the whole influencer economy, um, has helped spur that because now a lot of influencers have their brands or they have their edit, right? People pay them to come in and say, okay, I'm doing, do this capsule collection.
We'll put your name on it. And they are very minimally involved. Some of them, they're like this, this, this, . Right. And then
So, you know, it's a, it's a.
Marc Beckman: reality is that, like, the human spirit, even if you're a high profile celebrity, doesn't always equate to the skill set that someone like Pharrell carries, right?
Pharrell has
such an expansive, incredible skill set. I think another notable pro high profile celebrity that's done a masterful job in the industry, Uh, fashion category is Rihanna.
I mean, she
just destroyed
it with, in the beauty category, specifically with, with her, her range. I mean, superior product, innovative packaging
design,
and just like, just brought together more than just her music
fans. People buy
that product because it's superior product.
Constance C.R. White: And I think it's, I think it's, view on, on everything and incredible. it is she's putting out, has true, authentic stamp Totally. Yes, so,
Marc Beckman: um, Constance, I, we end the show with, um, a certain format. I don't know. Are you familiar with it? Do you know how my shows typically end? Okay. So I provide my guests with the beginning of a sentence and I ask them to end it for me. Um, are you ready to be put on the spot?
Constance C.R. White: I guess.
Marc Beckman: Okay. So in some future day, American fashion will transform by.
I'll leave
Constance C.R. White: that out.
Okay,
thanks.
which, I mean, we didn't even touch on like and all that's happening with that, but digitization as, as
for joining us
today,
and we hope to
see
you again in
the
future.
the real personal touch will pull, will pull us back, if you will, or both things will need to exist simultaneously.
And that will transform fashion.
Marc Beckman: Well said, my friend. I appreciate that. You nailed it. Um, Constance, so, so grateful to have you as a guest today. Um, your personal stories are really incredible. I appreciate you opening up and speaking. Such a, um, personal way today. Incredible. I wish we had more time,
Constance C.R. White: I but thank
Marc Beckman: you so much. Um, maybe we'll come back for a second episode.
Constance C.R. White: Yeah, and then we'll talk about fashion. Thank you, Marc. It's been a pleasure being with you and I appreciate the invitation and the time.
Marc Beckman: Really my pleasure.