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The State News sports reporters discuss all MSU sports.
(Anthony) Take a seat at the table with us. My name is Anthony Brinson.
(Madi) My name is Madi Warden.
(Thomas) I'm Thomas Cobb.
(Brad) And I'm Brad LaPlante
(Anthony) And this is the sports roundtable podcast. So if you guys can't see we got some new faces. Thank you guys, Brad. And thank you, Maddie for joining us. So usually, I guess I can look at the camera now. So usually how our previous format was It was myself, Thomas and DeShawn. And now we're going to try and switch into a different format of having new hosting and potentially new hosting every week shout out PJ in the sports desk. That's why Maddie is here. And then we had a bit of, um, difficulties of getting in some other people, but
we're here. So first of all, how Brad and Maddie how you're feeling?
(Madi) Feeling good. I can talk a lot and I can talk a lot about sports. So I feel like it's gonna go pretty well.
(Anthony) Sounds like you perfect for the Sports Roundtable podcast. How do you feel Brad?
(Brad) I'm good. I'm great. I'm excited.
(Anthony) If you guys aren't familiar with Brad, he's pretty much our new editor for this year of the podcast. The reason why I'm talking to you in the camera now is because of Brad. So thank you, Brad for the cameras and restructuring the podcast room and helping me bring this vision to life. So thank you, man.
(Brad) Yeah, I'm very excited. And I love it. I love doing it. Thank you boss.
(Anthony) Boss is crazy. I don't even I'm still not even used to. I guess technically, I'm your boss. But a lot of the sports, I guess activities or events that we do have been pretty cool. I just learned the other day that we kind of finance trips to get our reporters out there and hopefully say going into it. So Thomas covered that you have them or excuse me, now you have a Michigan State Wisconsin game, and then we win that game luckily, or do we end up losing?
(Thomas) Unfortunately for the Spartans, they did not end up winning that game. It was a great experience for me being able to go, I went to Chicago earlier in the season for the Duke game for the Champions classic and then to Detroit, around Christmas break for the Baylor game. Okay. And so this was my third time going on the road. Great experience. Cool arena, the call center, but it was it was not Michigan State tonight by any means it was a step back for them. They had entered that game as winners of eight of their last 10. And they had a golden opportunity because Wisconsin was best team in the big 10. They still are there leading record, I think just One Last Tool at this point. And it was one of just a handful of opportunities remaining for this year's MSU team to pick up that statement when in the conference. They have I would say pretty much just one statement one at this point. And that was the Baylor game. I think that according to the metrics, their next biggest win was actually against Indiana State here at the Residence Center. That's, that's classified as a quadrant one win. Okay, so those two are still our only quadrant one wins. And, you know, one thing is clear, they're going to have to pick that up at some point if they want to favorable draw in the tournament. They have Illinois at home coming up in a few weeks, I believe it's February 10. And then Purdue on the road at the end of the year. But that's you know, not that's a very small likelihood that you're gonna go down, they're gonna win where they haven't gotten to win. And, you know, who knows how long 567 years. So that Illinois games, one that we're circling, but Wisconsin has dominated them inside that their big man seven footer, Steven Crowder is too much for Michigan stay at 15.7 rebounds three assists. AJ store six, seven lengthy guard who can handle the ball and shoot win for 28. He went for 22. On December 5, when Wisconsin beat Michigan State at the Brooklyn center by 13. That kind of epitomizes their early season struggles and then they kind of went back to it. Unfortunately, in Madison, for those for those, those 40 minutes where they just never really had a real pulsar rhythm.
(Anthony) Well, I mean, never say never made, you mentioned that it would be difficult to walk into Purdue and get that win. And I can imagine it's going to be an uphill battle. But in your opinion, based on your analysis, what do you think MSU has to do to kind of get these impactful wins.
(Thomas) They just had to put it together for 40 minutes. I mean, Tom has harped consistently throughout the season like this, this team can play with anybody in the country and we've seen that they had a I believe was a three point lead over Arizona and a neutral site game over Thanksgiving with I'd say four minutes to go they've had chances and a lot of their a lot of their close losses. So just being able to have consistency and performance where they're playing like the team that they need to be for as long as straight up structures as possible. Whereas you know, you're seeing them get off to a slow start you're seeing them have these lags and productions in the middle of games where you know that's ultimately costing them in a lot of these these close losses. Like I said,
(Anthony) What say you Madi ?
(Madi) I was gonna say aren't they known for if they're down at the half they are they trouble to come back. Isn't that a big thing right now
(Thomas) and they were down to last night. Back at Michigan or sorry I'm at Michigan yeah at home versus Michigan. It was Tom is a 69th birthday picked up his 700th career win. Just kind of a story about-
(Anthony) 69? That man don't look a day over 50, what you talm bout?
(Thomas) 29 years nine years for one team so 100 wins all with with Michigan State and it was just a great night to do it rivalry game biggest rival I'd say for the for the program at home JAM PACKED arena as friends and family. Were there just a great, great feel good win for the team. But there's no doubt that, you know, they're they face an uphill battle in the conference. I mean, their chances and realistically, getting back into that picture very slim. However, they can, you know, sort of boost their their resume for March with a pretty favorable schedule. I believe the metrics haven't been favored in all but one of their games. Regular season and that's the Purdue game. Okay. They actually are a favorite at home against the Illinois team that's been playing really well and has their best player back Taryn chin Jr.
(Anthony) Okay, well, you gave a perfect transition to the U of M game. Congratulations that we took care of Bendis beat them by 19 If I'm not mistaken, 81-62. You got any thoughts about that? Madi
(Madi) I would like to take a second to talk about that block from Cohen car. I think that was in the first half that he just He's insane. That was insane.
(Thomas) Yeah, the call. I believe it was Robbie Hummel on the call, said You know, that's a dunk against 99% of college basketball. But when you got a guy who's got those kinds of upsets. It that kind of thing can happen. And the President's not interrupted. It was kind of a much needed energy boost, they were sort of struggling in the first half. And they kind of came to life after that they were down nine points. couldn't hit shot, Michigan at 1.8 Straight Shots. They're shooting 60%. At halftime, they made I think, four or five first threes. So it was just like one of those one of those things where they faced that early adversity, they had to kind of claw their way back and ultimately just stormed ahead, tighten the screws on defense Michigan, you know, not a very good basketball team, if we're just going to be honest. 714 on track for the worst season in over 15 years. You know, Juwan Howard, I would say on the sizzling hot seat at this point. Like he might not even make it to the end of the season. In my opinion.
(Brad) I was gonna say I would leave him on the bus at this point, like, like I was not-
(Thomas) Yeah, I think it's just one of those things where you know, he had that early. Yeah, but it was success. But that ability to sustain it with your own players just hasn't worked out. So. But it was it was, like I said,
(Brad) I was kind of worried at first. I mean, I figured there's no way that Michigan wins this game. Like that's, I mean that going into it. I mean, no disrespect to Michigan, but like, there's no way that this happens. And but and then I was following along, like because I was out working on a project. And the game started at nine. So I was on my way back at about like a 910 or so. But I was following up with the game on the box score. And they were losing, and I was looking at was like 29 to 25 or something in that range. And I was like this, I'm like, what's happening sort of thing. And then I sat down to eat dinner. And within the next like seven minutes, it just like completely flipped. Like the entire game after halftime was like it was crazy. And I just missed the whatever happened between that time I totally missed it.
(Thomas) They got the running game going to they're down to the half, they kind of went back and forth for about 15 minutes. And then Walker had a steel for layup hole guards who are in transition. And then Jay Nickens hit I'd say four or five threes in the last 15 minutes of the game, career high 23 points, kind of a revival game and getting MSU fans to see what he can kind of be if they can get that jig and on consistent basis there. They're sitting pretty. I mean, it doesn't matter at that point, what kind of production you're getting down low when you have Jay Nickens, who's ultimately at this point, their third or fourth option. You want to consider Malik Hall in that mix. Walk around hogarty go Twos Up top one of the best backcourt in the country if they're both playing and sank. But if he if J ne gets that played last night, and it's Michigan comes to play, you know, even every other game, they're gonna be exponentially better than they've been because he hasn't necessarily taken that step but a lot of people thought he was going to I mean he tested the waters with NBA Draft this past offseason and you know is a wants to see him in that two way roll like a Gary Harris kind of player that he had all those years ago that you don't can hit shots and play good defense at the same time. And he's a little bit concerned with this year, how he's kind of not been able to balance out the best when he's not hitting shots. He's not playing as good of defense kind of thing. So you Once he figures that out, he figured out that at the end of last year, he just, you know, had a heck of a run. Help Michigan State reached sweet, sweet, sweet 16. So if he can capture any kind of that and avoid it last night, they'll be they'll be in a much better position.
(Madi) And then AJ Hougaard had he had 1000 Last night, didn't he?
(Thomas) Yep, yeah. Had 15 points. seven assists is a study thought he played average in the first half, but turn it turn on the second. And, you know, I think you could kind of tell he was good. He was going for 1000 I will rewatch the game. Yeah, there was a play where he could addition offer an easy layup I think was the calling card Mike might even be able to go live but when for lead got rejected. And Michigan got it came back on a steel and he scored for as 1000 points. So that's kind of like okay, he was he was trying to use for humanization for it. He was as common as I would.
(Anthony) Yeah, same thing. And then those type of milestones aren't easy to achieve. I mean, like, you mentioned, one, Howard, you have him had that early success. And then now it's been kind of stagnant and even so like going downhill with the record right now. And then absolutely, Tom. So even though we have had the best season 700 win as a coach 1000 point with the player, you guys were just mentioned who was a hole guard? I mean, there's definitely some light at the end of the tunnel, if you would say and then if, especially if we're favorite for the most of our games. Purdue are we in Purdue in that game? We are Yeah, okay. So yeah, that may be a difficult
(Thomas) I actually can't remember the last time and Michigan State team one in Mackey Arena. I think it wouldn't have to be before 2000 It would have to be doesn't need to so six years and then before that they didn't really like those ones. Those ones were scarce. This has kind of been a house of horrors for them over the years
(Anthony) Well, that's pretty insane. But we've taken care of business as far as rivalry weekend and to go kind of across the pond to even your beat. Our team Michigan State Women's team beat there you have him women's team as well so
(Thomas) Yeah and unfortunately don't have the Shawn here. He's done a great job covering that team. Yeah, they've done a great job, I think just showing off earlier. I mean, it was it was kind of a season of we'll see how this goes. And it wasn't necessarily a Pruvit season with their new coach. Like but they've come out of the gate swinging for sure.
(Anthony) Correct me if I'm wrong Deshawn covers women's basketball beat Yes, sir. Okay, my bad, that's my mistake. But with that, because I was actually there at that game actually work that game at the Breslin and to see like, just how the arena feels up for these type of games and the interaction with the fans and then our team actually pulling through it's like a grateful circle moment to see like, how everyone comes together for moments like these and they pull it off and it was just a great way to see
(Thomas) Yep, and it was it was another one of those sorts of memory memory making days I think free like even said after the game, she said, you know, this is a this is a scrapbook day. And I think it was a scrapbook and your family was there a lot of the former players were there. Yeah, it was alumni alumni day. The arena was packed. I mean, I heard that you know, people were starting to file into the to the Super Bowl because the lower bowl was awful.
(Anthony) Yeah, I can testament to that. There was a lot of I'll say frustration between some of the people that were there at the game and part of that frustration was due to this it was packed whole arena was packed a good problem to have. Yes, definitely. So it was great to be able to open those Super Bowls and then get more people to seat it in because I mean, whether it was general admission or reserve T seats, there was pretty much nowhere to sit so much even some people in my area I was working in so people were just standing taking pictures getting video and they had bought a ticket but they just couldn't sit down. So it was crazy.
(Madi) Yeah, I think there was like 9380 Something people in attendance for that game, which was amazing. And now they're six and four
(Brad) is that a record? The 9000
(Madi and Thomas) I don't think so. It's got to be up there
(Brad and Thomas) are even for the women's team. Not a record. Okay. We would know Yeah, well, you know, I'm sure you would I'm sure you would I feel like I read the attendance somewhere maybe that was like maybe it's just for the season which makes sense because yeah,
(Madi and Brad) I think it was season high yeah season high sense. Yeah.
(Anthony) Speaking of the women's team I know this game was a little oh but man when they play I Will that get we that game was so winnable like we was right there before Caitlin Clark hit that last shot like think-
(Thomas) I think that that game sort of symbolizes like their season so far and with like their new coach, they don't care, you know who they're playing they they know who they are, which is the fast you know, high power, really good shooting team and all five of those, all five of those. Those starters can have threes, two off the bench and threes like it's just a very they know themselves they know their identity. And they don't care if they're going on the road to Iowa you know, they're gonna play their game and there was always gonna have to win. I mean, it took a 40 foot step back from Caitlin Clark at the buzzer. was like that was like a nanosecond like watching it live probably because I was on peacock and peacock. Not very
(Shoutout Peacock though, lol)
(Thomas) Peacock not very pleasant experience. I'm sorry, but it looks like she didn't get it off. Yeah, that's
(Brad and Thomas) I think yeah, it wasn't the issue there was somebody was saying that the issue was that the the actual like shot clock was not in sync with the with the with the with the TV display and the scoreboard display definitely got it off. Yeah. Like upon replay. Yeah. Okay. But it was so close. It was so close. I did not think that she did it first.
(Thomas) I didn't think she was great game. I tuned into it. I mean, I watch almost all that game.
(Anthony and Madi) And that just shows her talent. Really. I mean, I know she won't go here, but that okay, Alan Clark, she She's insane. Along with her Angel reads like they're reshaping women's sports. And it's great to see because it's been a topic of debate of like, Oh, they're not as good as men or the NBA WNBA. And it's showing that not only can it be on the same level, sometimes it can be even more entertaining. Yeah. Like, I've watched more women's college basketball and men's college basketball personally, and it's due to people like Andrew Reese and Caitlin Clark and our MSE women's team, so shout out to all of them.
(Thomas) There's a lot of men's basketball players I know that would lose in a one on one game.
(Anthony) But, um, to take a step back, actually, I wanted to ask Maddie and Brad, since you guys are new guest of the sports roundtable. What's your favorite sport? And why?
(Madi) Mine is hockey. Shout out hockey. I started getting into it. It's been probably a year and a half now. And as soon as I, like finally figured out the sport a little bit more, I just, it clicked and I just fell in love with it. And it's just it's high paced, and it's it's entertaining. And I love it.
(Anthony) Do you specify between like NHL or college or is it just hockey in general?
(Madi) I would say hockey in general. But I think where I first found the love of hockey was definitely in college, going to Michigan State Games and that kind of thing. So
(Anthony) Didn't our college team be you have them too? We did we split the
(Brad) I mean, they always played too.
(Madi) So we split the weekend. We lost seven to one on Friday, and we won seven to five on Saturday. Come back when it was awesome.
(Anthony) Yeah, I think I remember people from the state news they had left and came back like, oh, we came back and won. But what about your favorite sport?
(Brad) Oh, so I got to that I'm on a roll off. So my favorite sport is Formula One. We don't cover that here. Sorry
(Anthony) What is... if you could explain for the audience and your fellow co hosts.
(Brad) Formula One is the pinnacle of motorsport. It is a bunch of cars going super quick. Around and it is if you haven't like if you think it's just like cars going in circles. It's way more than that. I recommend the Netflix series drive to survive. Incredible, like just drama, dramatization of sports, you know, if you're like into documentary filmmaking is a masterclass and storytelling, even though it's like really exaggerated, but it's also you know, but anyway, cars go really fast. It's really dramatic, too, because they're, you know, under high pressure, they make one wrong turn one mistake, they die, you know, they could die in a fire. You know, it's basically like it's very, very, very intense is basically the gist. So is that like a newer movie? Is it older drive to survive as a it's, so it's a docu series. So they make it once a year, then the sixth season comes out on February 29. Okay, like a sales rep. For five years. Yeah, they've been making it for five months.. is I mean, well, yeah, it's such a good promo, but, you know, I'm like advertising for it. But no, it's it's great. And it's it's probably got me, like, it's the most obsessed i think i've been about a sport. Like, I mean, because I think the thing I like about Formula One is it's so easy to root for. I'm like making this a Formula One podcast, it's like, so easy to root for, like, every buddy's like, because everybody's making the, like the car, like you have to make your own car, right? It's not like NASCAR where they just give you a car, and then you just put the pieces in or, you know, whatever it's like it's where everybody's driving the same car. And it's like if you can drive this car better you win. In Formula One, everybody has to like basically engage with a science project and make their car the quickest under certain regulations. And then also there's a driver that's driving the car and you have to like they're part of the equation as well. So it's yeah, it's it's pretty intense. And once I think you get the like, the science part of it, like I think that's when it becomes exciting
(Anthony) So is it more focused on the driver, the person making the car or is it ever
(Brad) it's kind of everyone I think our people like to make the assumption that like, I Anybody can drive a fast car, if you're, if your car is quick enough, Mercedes dominated the competition between 2014 to 2021. And then, and then they had a new regulation change in 2021. So that's kind of the beauty of the sport is every time there's a regulation change, there's like the, the car has to be completely remade from the ground up, right. And so like, they have to almost rethink their entire strategy of the way they build the car. And so that kind of leaves the door open for new a new player to come in and dominate. So like from 2014, they had a regulation change where they move to hybrid engines. And I'm like, tuning everybody out. I know. But they moved, they moved to hybrid engines in 2014, and Mercedes dominated until 2021, when there was a new regulation change. I mean, imagine if sports were like this. I mean, Tom Brady wouldn't be in half of Super Bowls. I was a fan of Brady. But that's my point is it's it's I think that's the beauty of it is that it's always like, constantly changing, and there's always room for somebody else to sort of take that rain, you know, but, but yeah, it's it's exciting. If anybody hasn't watched lately, then I would recommend that. So my second favorite sport is hockey. So okay, you know, it's that's the one we actually cover. You know, the two like, really unpopular sports in America racing and, and hockey are my are my two favorites.
(Anthony) At least from what I see up here, hockey is popular, like,
(Brad) Yeah, once you get like, north of Tennessee, and Kentucky.
(Anthony and Brad) Yeah, I'm not doing it to it. But I don't know if you're familiar with gamer terms. But would you consider like a new regulation, a new meta, would you say Umm.. What's a meta, so the most effective tactic available? So you say every regulation, they like change car parts to get like, it kind of restructured the whole?
(Brad) Um, what so, like, I mean, it's kinda, I guess, I mean, it's like, so a lot of the regulation changes are moved for like safety reasons or so like cars, the cars. So basically after like six years or so the next next one is in 2026. The next regulation change, okay, regulation changes are typically made for safety reasons, because the cars get too fast, and they get too dangerous. And they have to like, basically make them more safe. And also for competitive reasons. So like to kind of give everybody a fresh start. But like, last time, the regulations were built around the hybrid engine. So if you built a really good powertrain, your car would go faster. This time, it was much more like aerodynamics specific. So like if your car has like you walk up to an f1 car and all the there's a bunch of like little tiny details that are like, you know, there's you know, you're yawning I'm just kidding. Yeah, totally. Just kidding. I totally just kidding, you know, but there's like little curves and things like that in the in the car that kind of like make it you know, go quick.
(Anthony) Do they, um, like, are there specific cars, you have to use a Formula One? Or can you just use anytime you can,
(Brad) I mean, you can basically do anything that's, that's not against the rules. So like, so that's the so that's, I don't know the specifics of it. But um, but there is an interesting documentary featuring Keanu Reeves apparently. I've seen it. I've seen the documentary. But there's Keanu Reeves interviews this Formula One team from 2009, where they, they were a new f1 team. It's a long story. But basically, the gist is that Honda had a Formula One team, they didn't want to be in Formula One anymore, but they couldn't just pull out like that's not a thing that you can do. So instead, the management of the team bought the team for $1. Okay, like he bought it for one pound. 60 cents. Yeah, one pound. He bought it for one pound. And they ran the team. And what they did is they added a second diffuser underneath the car, which basically makes the car stick to the ground more as like a mechanic's dream. Exactly. Yeah. So basically, all you need to know is it gives the car more downforce and pulls the car to the ground. Okay. And other teams had not thought that creatively about it. And nobody else was doing this. Right. So so that's kind of the thing, you can do anything you want. And almost you can come really close to breaking the rules just don't go over the line. Okay, even that even people were saying that they broke the law. And the thing is, is if you break the rules, like nobody cares if you're not winning, but because they were winning. People actually cares. I mean, you can put four wings on your car and nobody will care. You know what I mean? Like, if it's not against the rules then so Oh, That's That's Formula One in a nutshell. Thank you for the last night genuine. wasn't part of my sports knowledge that was not not on the agenda today.
(Anthony) So if we, if we go across the sports world to the NFL and more specifically to talk about football, I mean, I guess I'll have I won't go straight into it. But the championship games were this past weekend, and I'll talk about the ravens and chiefs game first. So this game for me was hard to predict because 10 Cool bias. I'm not the biggest Lamar Jackson fan, I would personally consider myself a Lamar Jackson hater. Sport wise, I don't know him as a person, but I just I'm part of the camp that feels his style of play doesn't win championships. And as as we see his style of play doesn't win championships. And with how that game went, it was so frustrating because the chiefs were very beautiful, like 17 and 17. That 10 That's why
(Brad) they were not the chiefs. We're not bad. Yeah, and I'll get into this I have a little like lions like thing. Yeah, so I found them last. But um, but yeah, I think the Chiefs weren't they're not like this isn't like three years ago chiefs where you're like, this is the this is a dynasty. Yeah, like they are very beautiful team and Baltimore could have I'm like, Dude, you fumble the ball. Or uh, you know, they turn it over in the endzone like twice
(Anthony) and then not even that like Lamar Jackson again. Even me being a Lamar Jackson hater. I would have loved for him to win that game and prove me wrong but like, I don't know who the receiver is door to but it wasn't Randy Moss. It wasn't Jerry Rice. I know that triple coverage I mean just I'm just calling triple coverage it was quiet I only saw three like that makes it worse like it just that decision making this just the Ravens not to put it only on Lamar even I do feel he holds a pretty good portion of it. But it wasn't just him. The Ravens in entirety, fumbled that game like no even no pun intended, but like we all agree like the chiefs were very beautiful. My homes, and it kind of even plays into the strength and dynasty of the chiefs and the homes because they the receivers have been considered mediocre. I mean, Travis Kelce is really that's the main strong suit they have and they still manage to find a way and put his games through. But I'm Taylor Swift effect, dude. Yeah, I was gonna say, unpopular opinion. I don't mind saying like, I don't like I'm there for football. I'm not going to be bothered just because they keep showing Taylor Swift and she's a billy she's Taylor Swift. I do the same thing like every Yeah, trapeze at Taylor. I was I thought of a theory like, just imagine if they're not together. And they just like for the business for the NFL. That'd be crazy. But we'll just say about it.
(Madi) I mean, I heard I was listening to something. I don't remember what it was. But Patrick mahomes in the playoffs is just like a completely different guy like he's in listen. But just like seeing him and Travis Kelce. Just the chemistry that those two have together out on the field in general is probably what helped them pull a win in that game. But Lamar Jackson, he that the Ravens kind of just blew it. I guess.
(Thomas) I put a lot of money on the Chiefs winning because I knew that there was really Yeah, I know they're gonna win. I'm a Broncos fan. So I've seen that movie once many times. Every time every time they're not going every time you think they're not going to do it. During the Superbowl, yeah, they're probably going to win.
(Brad) I had a I had a streak for about three years where I would predict the the, the Super Bowl winner, like after week one. So I would like watch the games and see like how each team is doing and based solely on week one, I would predict the winner and I got it for three years in a row. The but this year was the Ravens. And they you know,
(Thomas) I put 25 bucks on the game and won like 200 Something like that's crazy.
(Brad) That's crazy. I would have thought that the Ravens were going to win. But I mean, the chiefs that's like It's like one of those things. How do you bet against them at this point?
(Thomas) You don't? If you play them twice a year? Yeah, we did beat them, though this year for the first time in eight years. So take that.
(Brad) And that's and that's what's crazy. You want to segue into that lion's mane?
(Anthony) I have a question. So I don't agree with this notion. But how do you feel about Travis Kelce in the Go conversation as far as tight ends? Do you think he's there or with a real estate a weird Do you think he's there? Do you think yeah, that pace?
(Brad) So yeah, the argument against it. I don't I don't I don't think I have an opinion either way. Okay. Okay. But the argument against it. I did hear that was very appealing. Is that like, so? You talked about Grog. Right? I was gonna say so like, the thing about Kelsey is that he's his he's kind of a receiver like he's not you know, like like yeah, tight ends could be you know, but that but he spotted as a tight end he is what his job is mostly receiver.
(Anthony and ThomasI think the critique comes from and give me more time and like he's not like as good of a blocker. Yeah, what I've seen that's where the context like that's kind o runs out in routes. Like he's a Titan. Yeah
(Brad) I mean, that's, that's true. I mean, you could say that he's the Best receiving tight. I mean, I don't think that just because you guys are good receiving tight end that makes them a good tight end
(Thomas) The Patriots would split Gronk out what all the time, you know.
(Brad) Yeah. I mean that's true. That's true. Like I said, I don't have an opinion either way. I'm just here to put the fire. So like fire and bounce.
(Thomas) I'm gonna say is like this is all a conversation. Yeah. And like your question was, it seemed like goat conversation. Yes. He is like, yeah, he's in a conversation. You have to think about the arguments against it in the conversation.
(Brad) That's true. Yeah, he's he's in the conversation. I don't think I don't know if he he'd be the I don't I don't think that I'd say that he's the goat.
(Anthony) Yeah. And you bring up a whole nother debate of the whole like, the conversation like this happens. The NBA like, if somebody's like, what are we considering the conversation if like, let's say for example, we trying to think of a top 10 player? He's at 10. I mean, I guess if he's, if we're saying he's in the conversation, the top 10 But he's 10. I mean, I guess that's the conversation.
(Brad and Anthony) How long have these leagues been going on? Yeah. How long is the conversation? If somebody's in the top 10 All time there in the conversation.
(Thomas) You're making a figurative Venn diagram? Yeah, it's a conversation.
(Anthony) But yeah, I personally still have well, I have Gronk as the go tight end. I mean, Brady fan grog fan kind of makes sense. But even then we can think of people like Tony Gonzalez Shanice Sharpe, me Travis Kelce is in that conversation but um, to not prolong the inevitable any longer, man. I mean, it sucks to talk about the last 14 hours game it sucks because what similar to what Brad was talking about. I'm usually good with my predictions every year and I did predict the 40 Niners to win this game. But as the lions started off so high it's like they gave me hope. And it's like I've also been especially if you know me personally, I'd be considered a Detroit teams hater because they suck for so long. I'm like I'm not gonna keep giving them faith but they finally good this year and I'm gonna okay you know what they can be done by like they go when that first guy had to fill the name was go when they first game I had to fill in their beat the Buccaneers or the Packers if the Packers would have beat the 40 Niners and then once they got to the 40, Niners I'm like okay, because the 40 Niners have been my they've been my prediction to win the Superbowl because it doesn't make sense to them not to win the Superbowl. I mean, their team is stacked they got Brock Purdy look like him prime Cam Newton. I mean, there's no excuse in my opinion for them not to win the Super Bowl this year. But I'm like okay, the winner of that 49 is lions game I personally feel could be either the Chiefs or ravens I still feel the lions gonna be they could have walked in that Super Bowl and be Patrick mahomes say definitely couldn't be Lamar Jackson, in my opinion. So I'm like the winner of that game Super Bowl champion. And Lions have big 17 Oh, they looked great. Like Jameer gives things how you say his name. He was running the ball. Great. Jared Goff looking good. That didn't look like for an artist to answer look like a typical Kyle Shanahan choke. Performance and then it like it just completely flipped on his head. It's like I have I there were literally means of people on Instagram. You know how they got the lowest status thing. Everybody was saying like go Lions go lions lions chiefs Super Bowl, and it completely flipped to I've never watched a football again. I get this happen. And it's just disappointing because as I've texted to my dad and some friends like the lions the game like not only Detroit, that was one of the at least I felt like only only the lions could do a loss like that. It was funny. Um, I don't know if y'all saw certain tiktoks of like, they were making like Lamar Jackson edits or like lions, and it's like to save us from the Chiefs because they didn't want the chiefs to get to another Super Bowl. And it's like they managed to let the country down like that's a big loss. And ravens airlines like yeah, we got another 49 And she's super bowl and I get if I'm right, I mean, I guess the 49 is maybe in or maybe Patrick mahomes get ranked number three. Ring number three, would it be ring number three? Number four? Would it be? He's been the 40 Niners already he's be who he be first first, just to be ready number three, I mean, I get for United she will. But what... as a Brady fan. I'm not mad at the narrative of like, chiefs keep winning because I'm a I'm a Brady fan. But from I feel it from being a LeBron fan and having to deal with the Warriors. So I get how people feel about the Chiefs now, because it's like he keeps winning. I was a Brady fan. So I'm like, Hey, Brady. mahomes can keep getting so it is what it is. But
(Madi) um, I mean, I, I've I've grown up a Lions fan. But this is the first year where I was like, okay, maybe I should start actually like watching football, like learning people in the NFL. And just seeing how far the lions came from in the past couple of years from their first season with Dan Campbell to their season now and just seeing the finish that they had to this season after just blowing everybody out of the water. Not necessarily but like just having a dominating season that like us in our lifetime. We have never seen it before. And that That ending was just heartbreaking. Like you're up 24 to three or something like that. Was a 17 point lead is 24 something
(Madi and Brad) Yeah, it was 24-10 24- 7 So yeah, and of course, I can't do maths. No, I can't either. I can't even remember the scores
(Anthony) That's why we're journalists.
(Madi) I mean, you come out of halftime and you're like, alright, let's, let's keep the ball rolling. Like, let's, let's finish what we started and then they just I have no words.
(Brad) So here's my, here's my, here's my thing. Okay, so I don't know what your what your opinions are about, specifically about the decision making. There's been a lot I want to talk about it's been a lot of talk. It's been a lot of talk. So this is where here's my, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna let it put the lay of the land. Okay, out here. Okay, let me go first. See if you guys agree with me. Okay. Okay. All right. So, a lot of people are talking and blaming Dan Campbell. Okay, then there's a lot of people defending him and saying, like, all this other stuff. Okay. So here's my thing. I think that it's about a 7030, maybe 6535 split between Campbell and the team. Like, this was a whole, like a lot of things. Five out of curiosity, kind of, I would say Campbell for and I'll explain my reasons. Okay. But this isn't like, I don't think that Campbell's blameless. Like, I think that if you think he's blameless, that's like delusional thinking. No offense. But, um, so here's, here's, here's my thing. So, um, Campbell, obviously, like, you know, you sign up, he's gonna, he's gonna go for it on fourth down, you know, and I don't I don't mind that. I think that, you know, if that's his coaching style, so be it. You know, and I know that and I know that the players dropped a lot of passes. I think my my issue with the Campbell's decisions like of them all, the first, the one that that really bugged me, was not actually even any of the fourth down conversions. It's the fact that he went, he chose to run it. I don't know if that was, if that was a third and go, I was Yeah. And you run it, and it's a and now you waste a timeout, the game's over. Like you just the game's over, just ended the game. Like, it's, there's no chance for you to come back. And I know that like the chances still would have been slim. But that's just not like a you know, any NFL Coach, you can't do that. But of the fourth down decisions, I think the only one that was really, like truly questionable, is the the one where he was down, and that would have tied the game, the field would have tied the game. That was the that was the big one. I think that like going, you know, because people are talking the discourse right now is like comparing the fourth downs as though they're equal, you know, but the problem is, is that, like, you had one where you were up 2410? And then you had another where you're down? 2724? Yeah, like, those are not the same in my eyes
(Anthony) To give you a bit of a rebuttal, even though we're pretty much nine africell on the same page on the same mindset, but the one where it was 24-7? Weren't they also in field-
(Brad) 24-10. They were. They were in field goal range. And all of them I think were like fourth and to fourth and three, but which isn't, which isn't a bad idea and even up 2410? Like, yeah, you could argue that taking the points at this point would just be like, the safer option. But like, at least you have the risk to go for it. You know, at the time that I mean, this is these were only like, a few minutes between each other. He's the fourth out? Well, I think one was at the beginning of the first half. And then the other one was at the end of the yeah, whatever. But the game had completely flipped at that point, you know, you're down 2724. Now, I mean, just take it, you know, just I mean at this point, because now if San Francisco scores and you don't make the fourth down, like you have to be thinking in advance. And I just wish, I think that my opinion at when Campbell got hired was very negative. Well my issue was that he's never called a single play in the NFL. And I'm a rookie head coach, rookie. What's that?
(Thomas) He's not calling please.
(Brad) No, no, but that but that's my but my point is is that like if you're a head coach, like you should have the the experience to you know, especially if you have a rookie, GM, I think I don't like the rookie GM rookie head coach combo. What but but and I believe I had a lot more faith in Brad Holmes because he had built a lot of the Rams roster and I really liked what he did there. But my problem with with Campbell was really just that he had never really had the experience to warrant the head coach role and and he's grown on me over time for sure. But like, I guess my point is, is that like, I just wish he was more tactical, for you know, making these decisions. And I think that if you're a Lions fan, and you're on the Campbell train, you just have to live with this stuff that he does and hope that he learns from it, because he's kind of just learned Running with what he does, you know, we'd all agree that he's a good head coach. It's great. It's just the fact of like, really trying to hone in on these these decisions that that really make you wonder like, like, I don't know, why didn't he go for it on fourth and goal? At the end of the half? You know, uh, you know, you know what I mean? I'm not saying that that would have saved the game. But there are just a lot of things that had to go wrong here. And almost all of them did. Yeah, including the fumble by Gibbs, including the drop passes by Reynolds, there's just you know what I mean, you can't like you know, if he would have put his players in a better decisions in a better place to succeed those those issues wouldn't have really ruined the game I guess is my point.
(Madi) If you think about it, he Dan Campbell is one of the coaches like one of the only coaches in the NFL that has the highest percent chance of going for the fourth down like he doesn't most of the time, but then yes, there's some times where you're sitting there and you're like, you went for it on the fourth down the last time Why aren't you going for it now? Like if you know that you can do it then why aren't you doing it? Like just go for it? But then yeah, I mean, the you should have kicked a field goal. And while there's there's a lot of controversy that I've heard about how our kicker is probably not the greatest in the league.
(Brad) Why is he on the team? What you know what I mean? Like, I guess 50 yarder the playoffs like yeah, that's that's my I think I think that's my my issue is like, why is he there? Like why do you have him on the team if you don't believe are you paying him millions of dollars? Yeah, yeah, that's my I guess that's my thing is like, I don't think that's a good excuse.
(Madi, Brad and Thomas) Yeah, if you don't trust them enough to do it, why is he doing 50 yards just leave the kicker position absent.
(Anthony) To play devil's advocate even though I do agree with Josh, I mean, if he would have converted those four dogs we'd be sitting in a very different zone and that is how life works like if it would have worked but
(Thomas) that's my thing with it like I have zero problem with either of the decisions because I actually am a fan of that like mentality if you stick with it and live by it but you also die by it. I had no problem with either of them and they were both good plays there were two throws that were pretty much on the receiver and they're both dropped both in both passes and the receiver in both of his hands and ended up on the ground like you can't blame Campbell for that.
(Brad and Thomas) Well wasn't the second one actually a throwaway by Golf. They were both just strip drops. I thought the second one by Golf was- the one where they were down your memory barrier they were down I think it was the one just right across the Middle East.
(Madi) Yeah Even the handles dropped it
(Brad) I thought that was the first one pass the first one was in also incomplete deep right to Amman Ross St. Brown maybe that's not the end of the game. That was the second version. I thought I thought it was he got forced out of the pocket and he threw it away I don't think he I feel like it didn't hit a receivers hand the first one the first one was a drop by Reynolds I would was right up the middle. Yeah, the two dropper rounds on fourth down that were huge. Yeah, I only see to fourth down conversions on the stat sheet on the playback attempts. Converted no like they only lost on downs twice. One and one was passed to the right to a Monroe St. Brown. And it was like a floater. I think he was forced out of the pocket. I remember watching because I because I watched him and he like he totally like you know, a like it was I did not think it was a good play call. This the first one was not Campbell's fall. You know what I mean? Because like you can't I mean, you that was actually a good play call play good setup. And you can't I mean, you can't count on, you know, your guide drop in the past. I thought that was a really good play by the lions, especially with golf.
(Mad) I think golf played incredible that whole year or that whole there was
(Brad) And I'm not I'm not saying this a second play was Gough's fall I just because I remember watching it and that was just that was I mean, I think San Francisco more or less played the play. Like they just played it really well. And I'm on raw Rana I think it was it was either a post or a soul. Not a slant. But uh What's that? Are we talking about cross No, not across he ran he was lined up on the right side and he ran out to the right I think got towards the corner on but he but golf had nobody opened to throw it to so he started rolling right and he couldn't find anybody
(Anthony) Yeah, I mean like I said to play devil's advocate like if that's your strategy, like stick to your guns and keep it in your quarterbacks hands. I completely like Tom and say I can I don't agree with him. I understand the decisions but I mean, you're and then we're not even talking about the dropped interception from the lions where it was tipped to Brandon Aiyuk on the goal line like that could have been a great play. And then as far as the decisions, I mean, I do like I said, I can defend Dan Campbell's decision on those. But I mean, I feel you should have took both field goals like 2014. And especially when you're down, take both field goals, if I'm not mistaken, that wisdom the game if they take those fields, if you make them
(Thoams) if you even take both field goals, you're probably gonna win the game.
(Brad) I mean, that's the Yeah, like, I mean, those are just points that that you and not even to mention, the, the, I mean, like I said, at the beginning of the, at the, I mean, at the end of the half, they had that fourth and goal at the two yard line. And they ended up taking the field goal. And I was like, I was like, if that if you're gonna go for it, there's your there's your going for it is like that would it's your thing that half what are they going to do? If you don't you know, if you don't get it? Well, I mean, you just kicked
(Thomas and Anthony) three possessions. I mean, I kind of get it. Yes, San Francisco got the ball back. I agree with the field go there.
(Brad) I guess I just, I mean, he was looking at it, you know what I mean? Like he was looking, he was trying to decide if Americans look down the slide. And they I was like, he was asking the ref. Like, how close is it? I don't know. I just feel like if you're gonna be aggressive, like that's a that's actually not a bad decision. Because at least at that point, if you don't make it, you can kind of adjust your strategy for later. Yeah, and you can play the game by ear here up 17 points gonna be a noun three. So yeah, and that adds another instead of getting three points, you get seven. So I'm just I'm not I'm not I'm not trying to play what if, I mean, they could have went for that fourth down there and not made it and then you're out three points. And then they could have also kicked those field goals and missed missed both of them. I don't know why they would. I'm just I'm just putting it out there. We play all these hypothetical scenarios. You know, yeah. And so I don't know I just and I think the worst part about this for me because I'm a General Lee like new lions fan. I grew up very cynical about the lions, because they would always they have a history of being like the worst franchise ever. Right? So like it's it's just it was always very hard for me to root for him. And this year, I've gotten on board because of their success and everything. I'm sorry, I'm on the bandwagon. But I think the thing that hurts the most is how beautiful Kansas City is exactly because in my opinion the Detroit Lions did not just lose the NFC title game. They lost the Superbowl. Yeah, because like you could have gone and you could have they beat Kansas City in Kansas City only by one though. I mean yes with with uh, but we I mean, Kansas City had some some issues with with personnel and injuries and everything. So there is that but they could have beaten Kansas City. I solely believe that Kansas City's unbeatable team.
(Anthony) And that's why I think even though they were my prediction already, like the 40, Niners This shouldn't be, this shouldn't be the continuation of Patrick mahomes legacy or dynasty like this should be a should have been a lion's win. But since the 40, Niners I mean by party, we're about to go from last draft to champion if things go as planned. But even like you mentioned earlier, like I can give them the fourth downs I can give them not going forward on that fourth and go Why do you run it on third and goal?
(Brad) Like if you don't make it the game's over? Yeah, lie on your you have to get an onside kick like that. I mean, that's just that's just game mismanagement that like is unquestionably like dumb. Yeah. Lions. Like, I mean, I was listening to another radio host. He called it malpractice. You know what I mean? Like, that's just kind of, you know, yeah, you can't you can't do that.
(Anthony) But to save it for last time, as I know, you probably got a mouthful to get audience.
(Thomas) I mean, it kind of just said what I needed to say, you know, they had no problem with what he did. But she kicked both field goals. Probably win the game. Yeah. And that's what it comes down to. There's two things to be true at the same time, and here's looking at it like, objectively yeah, there's not good decision.
(Anthony) And you said they were under 50 yards too, right. So even if the kicker is bad 40
(Brad) I think he's like 88% for his career, so like, I don't think
(Thomas) I don't think he's that bad convert third fourth downs like an insanely high rates so like, if they make the fourth rounds he's a hero if they dropped to very touchable walls.
(Brad) I'm looking at these plays. And I'm like, yeah, if he makes them he's a hero. He's a genius. If he doesn't he's an idiot. Like I'm like yeah, but you can't chalk every decision up to that and good play
(Thomas) Two good plays for two guys I got open and decent throws on both yeah and
(Anthony) Especially if one do if I don't know if both for one do but if you dropping the ball I mean, I mean literally the lions dropped the ball so
(Brad) And I do want to reiterate though to Campbell's not like the only one to blame it is yeah, there's a lot of
(Anthony) Definitely it's never it needs to choices, never on one person. But this has been a phenomenal episode with you guys. I appreciate all y'all for being here and even the audience for this new format. Maybe it'll be us again. And maybe it'll be some new people who don't know or who knows. But real quick before we go super predictions, I've made it clear to 49ers that they shouldn't lose the 49 years old.
(Thomas) Chiefs
(Brad) I'm gonna go with the Chiefs. I don't know what it is, but the way they think so, like, I think that it lines are a good team. But I think that the 40 Niners and the chiefs are both like beautiful teams. I don't think that I think San Francisco Yeah, they might be like, you know, they might be stacked. They might have a lot of good players. But I think that, you know, I mean, Brock Purdy has shown that he can do a lot I just, I don't know, I just can't. I'm not gonna bet against Kansas City.
(Anthony) Definitely understandable.
(Thomas) I'll probably put 25 bucks on the game
(Anthony) But this has been the sports roundtable podcast with just with myself Anthony Brinson
(Madi) Madi Warden
(Thomas) Thomas Cobb
(Brad) Brad LaPlante.
(Anthony) Thank you. See ya later.