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A podcast for homeschool families brought to you by Sequoia Grove Charter Alliance. Encouragement, tips & tricks, interviews with HSTs and curriculum help.
Welcome to the Sequoia Breeze podcast, a breath of fresh air for your homeschool. I am your host, Rebecca LaSavio. Listeners, I am glad that you've joined me today. Do you ever find yourself while you're trying to do school with your kids, listening to all the dings of your phone or glancing or thinking, I'm just gonna check this really quick and suddenly realizing that your kids are running circles around you, and you've lost a half an hour, and you don't even know where it went? Do you realize that your kids are starting to pay more attention to your phone than you or that your kids with phones are just tuned out a lot?
Rebecca:This is really a problem that a lot of us can identify with, and I'm very excited to have Jenny Johnston join me today to talk about the book, how to break up with your phone. So join me as we have a great conversation with Jenny. Today, I am here with Jenny Johnston, who is an HST and an ITA, an instructional team adviser up in Chico. And I'm really glad to be sitting here with you today, Jenny. So thank you so much for joining me.
Jenny:I'm happy to be here.
Rebecca:So tell us a little bit about your family and your history with our schools.
Jenny:I was hired in 2016 as the only HST up in Chico, and the area grew really, really quickly. And so soon, there was more than just me, and that was really fun to see. My husband got employed the next year, 2017, so he's an HST as well. My children have been homeschooled their whole educations. So my oldest graduated from Lakeview last year in May, and my youngest is in 11th grade.
Rebecca:You are well known amongst our staff as somebody to go to for encouragement and inspiration and motivation to really put the important things first in our lives to use our mental attention well, whether that's, with in regards to technology or in regards to just choosing how to focus and how to prioritize. And you've, spoken with our staff many times about those kinds of topics, and it's time to share you with our parents. So while there were many topics we could have chosen today, I really wanted to talk to you about the book, how to break up with your phone, which you have embraced and done some book clubs with our staff going through that and the process, and I'm excited to hear your take and encouragement on this today. So tell us a little bit about set us up. What's the story behind your desire to help people break up their with their phones?
Jenny:So when my children were little, I read a lot of Rachel Maci Stafford's books, who's well known as the hands free mama. And I did not have a cell phone back then, and we did not have screens in our house, and so I didn't read it as a need. I read it as a way to stay focused in what was important and keeping my kids as my priority. And then I got this job in 2016, and I had a flip phone, And I used that for my 1st year. And then the 2nd year, I became RC, which was the equivalent of the ITA.
Jenny:And I was basically asked to get a smartphone because I would need that to function better in my job. So I did, and that opened up a big can of worms for me. And, yeah, doesn't mesh well with my personality. So I would get caught just stuck looking stuff up or whatever. And and soon enough, I was no longer a hands free mama, and my girls would be yelling at me, look at me.
Jenny:Are you listening to me? And I did not wanna be that person. So I considered quitting my job and just going back to homeschooling them or dealing with my tech issues. And so and that was much before I knew even that this book existed. I I don't think it existed then.
Jenny:I think it was written in 2018, if I remember. So Sounds about right. I didn't have any resources. I just I'm a pretty motivated person, so I was like, well, I'm gonna quit, or I'm gonna get this resolved. So I dealt with it on my own.
Jenny:And in 2021, my daughter and I were in San Diego on a trip, and I came across the book just randomly. It's a teeny tiny little book, and I found it on just like a bookshelf at Barnes. And I was fascinated, and I sat and read part 1. In one sitting out by the pool in, like, 2 hours, I read the whole thing, and I just was floored about realizing why what had happened to me had happened and why pretty much everyone walks around looking like the zombie apocalypse staring at their phones because they don't know what's happening. What is happening?
Jenny:Yeah. The big companies know exactly what they're doing, and they know how to keep people needing to look at their phone and thinking that whatever is on the other side of that is more important than what's happening in the real world and right in front of them, and then and then people get stuck.
Rebecca:It really is something of an addiction, isn't it? I mean, there's, like, chemical stuff going on in our brains. Yeah. Yeah.
Jenny:There's no I mean, really, the dopamine is nonstop because our phones are gonna be brand new every single time we pick them up. And the like, there's an old study about rats that the best way to get them to do something over and over is to sporadically feed them instead of consistently so that they don't know when it's coming next. And so that randomness is what keeps everybody coming back more and more often.
Rebecca:Bring it home to homeschoolers. I think for our phones are every phones are dangerous for everybody, and it has or rather screens in general have their own addictive nature for everybody. But since we are talking to homeschoolers, what's a specific risk factor in being overly connected to our phones as homeschoolers?
Jenny:I would say that you've chosen to homeschool and take this time in your child's life to be with them and to spend this time with them and to be distracted by a screen when you could be doing things with your child. The time will come so fast where you realize that you really wasted a lot of time staring at a screen that you could have been spending in better ways. And those relationships that we build with our children and our family and our friends, all of them, is so important that we we really need to be present in our relationships. And the phone is a a big, huge brick wall getting in the way of that even when it's just on the counter because it's always got that presence of, I'm here. I'm here.
Jenny:Do you need to look at me? And that's if it's on silent. Mhmm.
Rebecca:And we were talking earlier, and you were talking about how even even if we as parents choose to ignore the phone, our kids are super aware of it. If they know they know it's there, they'll you know?
Jenny:Yeah. And we are role modeling for our children, correct behavior, whether we want to be or not. And so if we every moment, something dings or blings or it doesn't and we just wanna look at it, we're teaching them that it's really important to look at our phones as often as possible.
Rebecca:Mhmm. So walk us through sort of the basic principles and ideas of the book. What's what's in there that is really worth
Jenny:our time? So part 1, like I said, can be read in such a short period of time. I really think everyone in the world should read it as just, like, require reading. It's just jam packed with so much stuff. And what I love is her introduction to it that it's well, 2 things.
Jenny:We're not trying to throw our phone under the bus and never use our phone again. We just need a healthy relationship with it. And, actually, it's not phones. It's every all technology. All technology in general.
Jenny:The other thing that I like that she says is that part 1 is like that friend that takes you to the side and talks to you about how the person you're with is really bad for you, and and you don't wanna listen. You get really angry. But then you just get scared because you don't know what to do. And I feel like that is perfect analogy for this because you don't want to be told that what you're doing with your phone is wasting your life and ruining relationships. But it's true.
Jenny:And then it's scary because you don't know what to do, and then that's part 2. And so I like how she introduces it that way. We don't we don't need to get rid of our phones, but it's totally possible to not spend all day on them. I, you know, I'm an HST and an ITA, and I can spend an hour and a half, an hour and 45 minutes on my phone screen time, and I get my job done. It's not required that we're on our phone for hours and hours every day.
Jenny:It's a choice. Mhmm.
Rebecca:Well, and it's being in control of our phone usage, making the choice instead of letting our reflexes dictate or letting the apps that are whispering to us. Which a lot of a lot
Jenny:of it is is that. That's that's the hard part. And, you know, as a homeschooling mom, when my kids were little, I didn't have a phone. But I can imagine, thinking back to that, that what I would want to do and what I would recommend to listeners is that the phone just not be in the room. And if you get the book and you read it, you will realize why this is.
Jenny:But it really should be turned off and put in another room in a drawer and not around because our children should be priority number 1, and they should know that they're priority number 1. And there's a really great talk that Simon Sinek does on how phones are ruining our relationships. And it's just the presence of a phone makes the other person feel less important. You're holding it. Like Mhmm.
Jenny:You're holding their hand, but you're holding a phone. Mhmm.
Rebecca:Were when you read the book, did you discover that you had sort of gone through the same process she was laying out, or were there new ideas? Because you said you basically had to fix your relationship with the phone before you found the book. So maybe we should back up a little bit and talk about what did you do? How did you approach fixing that relationship?
Jenny:It's really interesting because I did quite a few of the things that she has in there. So I took my work email off my phone, was the very first thing. And I also let my my family families and my roster families know that I would not be checking my phone as much so that there was kind of an accountability there. And then I put my phone in black and white, And that was basically what I did, and it it made a big difference just doing just those three things. Mhmm.
Jenny:I actually I'm not not sure. I think maybe there was a PIN back then, but this is also suggested in in her thing. It's just making your phone harder to get into. And so the most recent book club that I did, I had told some of the people that take your either the face lock off or the fingerprint so that you have to type something in just as you need just some kind of hurdle to it's so easy to just pick it up and get onto it Mhmm. That there's something in the way of of not being quite so Mhmm.
Jenny:Easy. Mhmm. And I can't remember because back then, there wasn't fingerprints or anything. So I think it was just a matter of figuring out a way. I almost wanna say it was like a rubber band.
Jenny:Like, there were suggestions of just putting something on the phone so that it wasn't so easy to get Mhmm. Immediate access.
Rebecca:And she talks a lot about taking apps off and reducing the number of notifications that you're getting and all those kinds of things so that your phone is not talking to you. Okay? Yeah. I have read this book before, and I need to read it again because I've definitely and she she kinda talks about that. Like, don't feel guilty.
Rebecca:Just fix it. You know? Like, it's there's been a slide, and I've noticed when I'm tired or bored tired bored or, you know, life's just a little harder than normal or something, then there's it's really easy to pick that up to escape.
Jenny:Yes. I would just say that sometimes it's okay to escape. Mhmm. And so that is what I really like about how this book is presented is but are you mindfully escaping? Then it's okay.
Rebecca:Mhmm.
Jenny:It's the, you know, 45 minutes you lost because you went down rabbit hole, and you're not being you're not consciously making a choice to do that. But if I have a bad day and I say, I am gonna scroll on my phone for 30 minutes, then I'm gonna scroll on my phone for 30 minutes. I'm not gonna feel guilty about it.
Rebecca:Mhmm. But you set a timer, I assume. Mhmm. Because 30 minutes doesn't feel like anything when you're lost. So how have you seen implementing some of these principles change others?
Rebecca:I mean, you were already a hands free mama. Like, you knew what you were going back to. How have you seen it sort of open the eyes of others that may not have experienced that?
Jenny:It it's really unbelievable, and you just have to experience to do it. And it's it's really, really amazing. The the changes people find are it's mind blowing to me. Like, there's been so many people who've gone through the book club with me, and there's not just, like, one instance here or there. It's the people who do the book club and they do the steps.
Jenny:Their life changes profoundly. And I think that's why I keep doing it, because I think that this last one was I think I had 40 40 people both times in the fall and the spring, and and this was all staff. Right? Yeah. So I like to open it up to all staff, like, because I I just yeah.
Jenny:Whoever. I'm I yeah. I would like I would like for more people to dedicate themselves to doing the book. Because a lot of people say that they want to commit, but then they can't. They it's a there's a lot of fear Mhmm.
Jenny:Involved, which sounds a little extreme, but it's not. It's it can be very scary for people to think about changing their habits. And and she doesn't ask anybody to go cold turkey.
Rebecca:It's making one little change
Jenny:Mhmm.
Rebecca:At a time. It's just a little incremental, like, try this. Now try this. Now try this.
Jenny:While the
Rebecca:book clips have been for staff members, you do have an email list you were telling me about for parents who want kind of the accountability and the reminder to be able to join in this challenge. And I do wanna mention, while you mentioned it was a little book, it's, like, $10. Right? It's it's pretty. It's small.
Rebecca:It's very unintimidating to look at. You can fit it in a pocket. I'm gonna go here. Instead of taking your phone in the bathroom, you could leave your book in the bathroom.
Jenny:Absolutely. Yeah.
Rebecca:Because it's just short little bits that are easy to read in a few minutes. But you have an email list that people can join if they would like. Yes? Tell us
Jenny:a little bit about that. So I have just, like, over the years, created these emails that go out, and I have, like, the link to the Simon Sinek video with how phones are destroying our relationships and a link to social dilemma and a link to these other resources that I've just kind of, like, compiled from here and there. So it it's basically whatever people want it to be. So they can join the book club, and they can read the book, and they can that can be the end of it, or they can do these things that I send that, you know, ask some questions for you to fill out or watch a separate video or read a separate article, and it I don't know. It just was fun for me to put together.
Jenny:So
Rebecca:Okay. So there will be a link in the show notes of how to find you to join that email list. Yes. Awesome. What keeps people from really wanting to face the problems of their phone addiction?
Jenny:I think they don't know what else to do. I think that
Rebecca:it creates a a void in their time, and they're not sure how to fill it.
Jenny:So without interests of other sorts or things to do, then that is that's what they do. And so and that is also in the book as well that she says you have to figure out what else you're gonna do besides this. And so it's a it kind of is confronting yourself and and making yourself figure out what it is that you enjoy. I think a lot of people use it as an avoidance tool because they don't wanna deal with their anxiety, and they don't wanna deal with whatever's happening in their head. And so, instead, they use their phone as a coping mechanism.
Jenny:So it can be the bridge.
Rebecca:Big issues. Like, we're not just talking anymore about setting your phone down. No. We're talking about going a lot deeper.
Jenny:Yeah. Because it's very easy to use as a coping mechanism for our problems
Rebecca:to escape. So I didn't get a smartphone. I definitely had at least one child. I was I wasn't the first one to get a smartphone. That's for sure.
Rebecca:But that's a lot of years before I had a smartphone of doing other things. Mhmm. But I can I mean, they've been around for, what, 18, 20 years? I don't know exactly. And that's a lot of people that might never have been an adult without without
Jenny:a smartphone in your hand. Right. So it's a big ask because it really is you have to confront yourself and decide what what do I want to spend my time doing? And you're right. A lot of people might not have ever thought about that.
Jenny:So one
Rebecca:of the things I talk about with homeschooling a lot is, well, with a lot of things, actually. This is something I value very much in life is if it's not working, don't give up or walk away or just keep doing the wrong thing. Just stop and figure out what's not working and try again. And, like, that's not a problem. Just it's not wrong.
Rebecca:It's not bad that whatever you're doing isn't working. It just isn't working. So why isn't it working? So it seems to me that that's something people will need to go into this with. Like, okay.
Rebecca:Well, I'm gonna try reading a book, or I'm gonna try knitting, or I'm gonna try building models, or, you know, I don't know what. Like but you might discover, well, actually, I don't like that.
Jenny:Or That's right. And that's okay.
Rebecca:And it doesn't mean that putting the phone down was wrong. I just haven't found the right thing Yeah. To do. Exactly. I'm gonna try baking, or I'm gonna try I don't know.
Rebecca:I'm coming up with lame examples. But you're gonna have to if you've never been an adult without a smartphone in your hand, putting that down and learning to do other things, it's gonna take maybe a little bit of
Jenny:Mhmm.
Rebecca:Trial and error. Yeah. And that's not doesn't mean you're doing it wrong.
Jenny:No. And that is part of living life is being curious about what do I enjoy, what what would I like to do with my time instead? And, you know, I'm not really good at sitting still, and so a lot of my things were like, I'm gonna go on a bike ride. I'm gonna go on a walk. I'm gonna go to yoga.
Jenny:So you have to know yourself. Mhmm. Like, I'm not gonna get off my phone and then sit and read a book because I wanna be up and doing something. Other people will be totally opposite. They do want.
Jenny:What can they do? They do crossword puzzles or jigsaw puzzles or build something with their kids or whatever. But in exploring what you like and don't like, then you'll figure it out. But no matter what, the time spent doing that, either on your own or with your family or with your kids, is gonna be well spent, much more well spent than watching reels on Instagram. Such a trap.
Rebecca:I also read recently heard recently, I don't remember where, that when we read a book or dig through books for information, we retain that information, and the process of looking for it somehow adds to how we retain that information so much more than, you know, searching, googling a question, and then looking at, like, 16 different answers really fast and moving on again. The the the act of opening the book flow finding the book, opening it, flipping through the pages, actually reading it, that all of that is much more will lead to a lot more retention than just scrolling through answers. And I found that really interesting too because a lot of times our excuses for having our phones is that it's a tool. I need the information. I need to be able to do this or that, and yet maybe that's not the most effective way.
Rebecca:You know? Maybe instead of googling a garden question, I should go and ask an older neighbor who's got lots of experience, and I've then build that relationship with them too. I don't know. And my kids get to hear the the conversation instead of me just staring at a phone, and they have no idea what I'm looking up.
Jenny:Yeah. Yeah. And our phones are distracting even while we're on them, and so that's why reading something on your phone is not gonna be retained.
Rebecca:How many times I've picked up my phone to do something specific, and I see a notification, and then I stand there and, like, why did I pick my phone in the first Yep. What are some of the greatest rewards? You've kind of talked about this, but what what are some of the greatest rewards to facing the problem of our phone addictions?
Jenny:I would say that living in the real world is the number one reward because when we're staring at a phone, it's not real. Nothing that we're looking at is real. It's not real colors. It's not real people. It's it's a made up world we've decided is important.
Jenny:And then relationships are definitely the number one reason for living. And the the I think it's the Harvard study, the longest study on happiness. The number one deciding factor was relationships in, like, the longevity of life, and it was better than diet, cardiovascular health, physical health. Having strong relationships was the number one factor in living a long, healthy life.
Rebecca:And that's what we keep hearing is breaking down over and over relationships that loneliness and anxiety is through the roof. And Yeah. How do we equip our kids for phone use? How have you do your girls have phones? How have you helped them navigate that world?
Jenny:Yeah. So that one's really tough, and we were screen free for the majority of their childhoods. And I'm I think they were 14 16 when they got phones. And if I could do it again, I wish I would have known this prior. There are phones called pinwheel phones that do not have an Internet browser, and parents have full control.
Jenny:If that's not an option, I would recommend an Android because Google family allows you to control things where iPhones don't and make make it much easier. Androids are actually much easier to make less addicting. IPhones have much more things in the way. So on my phone, I just scroll down, pull the menu down, and I can go to black and white immediately. And in one of the book clubs, we could not figure out how to get an iPhone on black and white.
Jenny:It was like 8 steps into the phone, and you had to do that every time to get it on black and white. So but I would recommend the Pinwheel phone or for young children, the Gabb watch that allows, like, 3 contacts, and it's just to make calls, and it has location. I do not think children need phones until they're much older.
Rebecca:I know at our house, we're struggling a little with, like, now that they're teenagers, in order to communicate with some of their friends, it's not about making phone calls. It's it's about messaging and chats and things. And the
Jenny:Gabb watch would be for, like, say, 12 and under. I think, for sure, that's not gonna work with a teenager. But the pinwheel phone makes phone calls, and it they can they can add apps that the parents approve. So there are I believe there there's not social media. Like, Facebook and Instagram are not even options on the Pinwheel Browser or the operating system, but they could email it or
Rebecca:there are other Text and
Jenny:those kinds of Yeah. And it's up to the parent. And so, like, when they're younger, the parent inputs all the contacts, and the kid cannot add a contact. And then over time, you can change that, and they can ask for approval of a contact. And it comes to you, and you can approve it.
Jenny:Every text that is sent is visible to the parent on the parent's app. They can't delete things. So if they've sent something and then deleted it, it still shows up for the parent on the parent's side. So if someone has to get their kid a phone, I I would recommend that just Okay.
Rebecca:As the least addictive version. Talk about how to train and coach your kids through phone usage. Like, or even no. Let's we'll keep it to phones. It's so hard when they need screens when they need to be on laptops for school, but then there can be chats and things going in the background, and it's so distracting.
Rebecca:But that's probably a different discussion. So, I mean, obviously, we're talking about for us leaving our phones out of the room when we're working or doing things with people. And so, you know, that's something that can be implemented with our with our teens as well. How can we coach our kids into healthy of a healthy relationship with their phones?
Jenny:Absolutely, the number one thing is our behavior. I would say we cannot be on our phones all the time and then tell our children not to be on their phones. So I think we need to model what we want to see in our children. My children still spend way more time on their phones than I wish, and I know that that is I've done what I can, and it's gonna part of it's gonna be their decisions on how they wanna spend their time. I did a Friday focus for the high school kids on multitasking, and I I definitely talked about ways to turn off those distracting things.
Jenny:So that could be an option.
Rebecca:And the those are on YouTube, so we will link that episode as well in the show notes so that parents can watch that or even better. The the teenagers. Teenagers can watch that too.
Jenny:I think it's a matter of them caring, to be honest, which is a I mean, that's a
Rebecca:big part of life. And and I think it's gonna take some coaching in how to have relationships with at this point, I think a lot of teenage relationships are based on phones. And so how do we help them help their friends put phones down so that they can
Jenny:Yeah. I think that that they're gonna have to wake up from their own little world that they're in and and say to themselves and their friends, we don't wanna keep doing this. I don't think there's any way to force them. They're they're there. They have their phones, and they're gonna have those behaviors and habits until they decide it's detrimental to themselves.
Rebecca:In the book, she talks about having a weekly phone fast to reset yourself. So I think she does, like, Friday night to Saturday night or something like that. Do is that something you practice at your house?
Jenny:Well, every time I do the book club, then I always do that 24 hour. But the last two times, I did a 60 hour and then a 72, and it's absolutely incredible to do that.
Rebecca:Talk to me about the practicalities of that. Like, I am still while I do less than a lot of parents, I am still sort of in charge of my kids. You know, any communication for my kids, a lot of communication for my kids comes through me. So I honestly haven't quite figured out how to how to manage that.
Jenny:You go to the Eastern Sierras with your husband for 3 days of camping where there's no signal. Well, there you go. And then the other the 60 day or 60 day. That would be nice. Sixty hour was a trip to Fort Bragg with my sister and our kids, and there was no need for
Rebecca:So you got them. So have you have you found a practical way to do, you know, a fast at home when people would expect to be able to get a hold of you?
Jenny:I don't I haven't done that because I just don't feel the need Okay. In having made the changes that I've made.
Rebecca:Okay.
Jenny:But I think that it's more practical. Honestly, I think it would be better for people to just pick a 4 hour period of time to be with people Mhmm. And leave their phone. That would be my preference over the whole 24 hour. It it is profoundly changing to do a 24 hour fast, and I I do recommend it to everyone, but a lot of people are hesitant to.
Jenny:I I think go on a walk without your phone. Go out to dinner with your husband without your phone. Spend time with your kids without your phone, and then you have no reason why do you need it anyway. What is gonna happen in that 45 minute walk that you need your phone? In in all reality, nothing.
Jenny:But people are so gripped with fear and anxiety that they can't, but it's also because they're not trying.
Rebecca:Right. Well, I know I I think some people are surprised that I let my kids go ride their bike, go places, and, you know, until a certain age, they don't have phones and, like, well and I'll hear people say, well, I want them to have a phone in case they fall off their bike or something. Well, I fall off my bike all the time. That was the eighties, and I just had to solve it, like or rely on people around me or and there's a problem solving skill involved in that that I it hasn't actually happened to my kids, but I would I'm not afraid of it happening to them because we have the benefit of living in a small town, but still, like, relying on a neighbor to help is okay, or figuring out, actually, this hurts, but I can make it home. To solve those problems and push yourself a little bit further, it's okay with me.
Rebecca:Like, to you need to I want them to know they can survive. Mhmm. Solve a problem without a phone, and that's okay.
Jenny:Yeah. So
Rebecca:have you gone through this book with any kids or teens or walked parents through who were trying to do it with them?
Jenny:So I bought the book for my girls 2 years ago, and they've had the book the whole time. And my oldest just went through the whole book with my nephew, her cousin. And I'm pretty sure his screen time was, like, 19 hours. It was it was very excessive. A day?
Jenny:Yes.
Rebecca:And That's not very much sleep.
Jenny:No. And I I always leave the book just out. Mhmm. And he picked it up one day, and he did kinda what I did and just read that first part. And, like, you could just see, like, the light bulbs going off, and, like, every once in a while, he would comment.
Jenny:I wasn't there, but my oldest was. And she said he would comment and just say, this is really scary. And he has completely turned around. And this isn't just, like, 2 months. And I think that's what I was saying about, like, this generation is the one that needs to wake up and realize they don't want to do this anymore.
Jenny:But until they each experience it, it's it's gonna be it has to be up to each one. Mhmm. They're gonna have to come to that conclusion, but they loved going through the book together. And and now it's nice too because then if they're together, they can each tell each other, hey. Get off your phone.
Jenny:Like, what are you doing?
Rebecca:That was actually another question I had for
Jenny:you was, do you and
Rebecca:your family have a way of gentle accountability or guilt free accountability? And I
Jenny:I don't think it would be gentle. Uh-huh. But it's literally like we're eating. Your phone needs to be on your head or just whatever. It's we just say it straight out.
Rebecca:And because everybody's pretty much on the same page.
Jenny:Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna say that's another part that people have to come to grips too, is that I call my husband all the time, and he doesn't answer. And I call my kids all the time, and they don't answer. And I can't be upset because I'm grateful.
Jenny:Mhmm. I'm glad like, I'm glad you went to the store without your phone.
Rebecca:Mhmm.
Jenny:I'm I we have to deal with our uncomfortable feelings as to what other people are doing.
Rebecca:So we have to expect other people to let us off the hook for instant replies.
Jenny:Mhmm.
Rebecca:But we have to let other people off the hook Absolutely. For instant replies. And so and even have
Jenny:a moment of gratitude. I do every time my daughter doesn't answer the phone. Mhmm. I'm like, good. I'm glad she's doing something without her phone.
Jenny:Mhmm.
Rebecca:I find that hard also as somebody with FOMO, fear of missing out. Like, well, what if what if somebody says, hey. Do you wanna go do something? And I don't see it for 3 hours. But sometimes those are often texts.
Rebecca:It's like, well, if you'd called, I would have heard the phone ringing. You know? Yeah. So sometimes a phone call, that's it's a phone. It's supposed to be for phone calls.
Rebecca:Well, what else is there anything else, Jenny, that you want people to hear from this before we're done?
Jenny:I think I would just recommend not being afraid, and you have to do what you want to do for yourself. Nobody's forcing anyone to change anything, really. And, like, I've had people in the book club that are like, well, I feel bad when I'm sitting at home and I'm just doing the, you know, what is it, candy crush or something, you know, whatever. And I have to remind them, do you care that you're doing candy crush, or do you care that someone else is gonna care that you're doing candy crush? Mhmm.
Jenny:None of this is about what other people think. This is about us and doing what feels good to us and what feels right. And if it doesn't feel good and right, making those changes for ourself and not for anyone else.
Rebecca:With perhaps the caveat of your kids are watching.
Jenny:True. Yes.
Rebecca:And you make your decision for yourself and what you want your example
Jenny:Yeah.
Rebecca:To be for your kids. But but expecting somebody else to answer the phone or expecting Mhmm. That's not what I meant. Worrying about somebody else's expectations of us to answer the phone. Yeah.
Jenny:Or anyone else's expectations of how we're spending our time when it's our time, when it's our downtime Yeah. Then I think there's a big difference between, like, a mom sitting on the couch at 8:30 at night and playing candy crush for half hour and playing candy crush in the middle of trying to do a history lesson
Rebecca:Right.
Jenny:That would be you know, the role modeling there Yeah. Is very different. It is.
Rebecca:Yeah. Yep. That's true. And we are recording on the most fabulously gorgeous days. It's hard to imagine choosing a phone over being outside today.
Rebecca:Well, thank you so much, Jenny, for being here today. I really appreciate you sharing your wisdom and experience, and you're pretty accessible as far as being able to email and contact and look for support on this journey. And so you can look for the things we've mentioned today in the show notes as well as how to email Jenny and to get her support on that on this journey. So thank you so much for being here.
Jenny:Yeah. Thank you so much. It was really fun.
Rebecca:Listeners, you heard Jenny and I mentioned that she sometimes leads a book club for participants who want to work through the book, how to break up with your phone by Katherine Price. Jenny is going to be starting that asynchronous book club up again soon. Beginning the week of October 14th, she will start her weekly emails to keep you on track and encourage you in each of the steps towards more freedom and control over all of that tech in your life. If this is something that appeals to you, you can find the link to read more about the book club, sign up, and connect with Jenny in our show notes. You can also look for the link in the Sequoia scoop next week on October 8th.
Rebecca:If you're nervous about tackling your phone and taking the steps to break up with it, this is a great way to have some gentle reminders, support, and encouragement overcoming the hold that it has you. Friends, don't forget that the people who made your phone and all the apps that are on it, and that you depend on daily, actively work to addict you. Don't hide behind guilt about your phone usage. Be proactive, and join Jenny in breaking up. Do you have a friend that you would like to join you on this journey?
Rebecca:Share this episode, and you can tackle your phones together. I hope this has been an encouraging episode, listeners. Thank you for joining me today for this episode of the Sequoia Breeze podcast, a breath of fresh air for your homeschool. I have been your host, Rebecca LaSavio. As always, I would love to hear from you if you have any questions or ideas at podcasts at sequoia grove.org.
Rebecca:And don't forget to look for that link to join Jenny on the journey of breaking up with your phone in the show notes and next week in the sequoia scoop.