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Film Curious is a movie review podcast that takes a step back from the constant media consumption to discover and ponder great films across genres and time. A podcast where we let our intrigue guide us and are not afraid to explore whatever films pique our interest.
To all you film lovers, casual theatergoers, at-home movie watchers, and streaming scrollers out there, think of Film Curious as your gateway into any and every kind of movie. One that doesn’t gatekeep but doesn’t shy away from respect for the craft either. So, take a dip, the water’s fine…
00;00;00;02 - 00;00;18;24
Speaker 1
How am I going to talk about this? And then go put this on YouTube and cut shorts for it to promote it and put it into the algorithm to get the algorithm to pick up on it. Is that like weird challenging choice though, right? Like, but how else am I going to get, you know, how like even the word of mouth of this movie, right?
00;00;18;25 - 00;00;40;17
Speaker 1
Like even like a promotion of this movie, it's like, well, how else are you going to get the word out to like, go watch this film, right? I guess this is my, my rationale for it or my logic for like, feeling okay about, you know, putting this out on the internet and asking people to, to engage with it is like, do it, but then wake the fuck up.
00;00;40;20 - 00;00;57;05
Speaker 1
Right. Like.
00;00;57;07 - 00;01;21;05
Speaker 1
Hello and welcome to film curious. We took a break last week to give us all some time to regroup, enjoy the summer a bit, and this episode we are taking a break from the string of new releases we covered over the last few weeks. Go check those out if you're interested. Our latest before the break was Supergirl. And yeah, the discourse is a bit of the tile out there surrounding it.
00;01;21;07 - 00;01;49;23
Speaker 1
Contrary to what people on the internet say and the algorithms feed us, it is okay to not absolutely loathe it or be madly in love with a movie, to like it, or enjoy it, or have mixed feelings. It's human, and I guess that kind of segways us into this week's episode. In a way. We're going to pivot to a smaller, lesser seen film when it was out back in February.
00;01;49;25 - 00;02;08;25
Speaker 1
I did want to see it. I remember Nicole, you did see it in theaters, right? Yeah, I did, but it was a very short window that I had. Now we're going to talk about it this week because it's on Hulu. So you can watch this on Hulu if you haven't seen it yet. If you did manage to catch in theaters or you did just recently, watch it on Hulu, congratulations!
00;02;08;25 - 00;02;26;11
Speaker 1
This is the episode for you if you want to hear about it. And that is good luck. Have fun. Don't die. Directed by Gore Verbinski. He is the legend who directed the first three Pirates of the Caribbean movies. A big fan, big fan.
00;02;26;14 - 00;02;48;16
Speaker 1
And this film stars Sam Rockwell, Juno Temple, Hallelu Richardson, Michael Pena and Zazie Beetz. A story follows a man from the future who arrives at a diner in Los Angeles, where he must recruit the precise combination of disgruntled patrons to join him on a one night quest to save the world from the terminal threat of a rogue artificial intelligence.
00;02;48;19 - 00;03;15;22
Speaker 1
So this film has a very. Actually, I wouldn't put the word very in front of it. It has a dystopian type setting. Things that are happening to it, a lot of Sci-Fi, futuristic stuff it feels like, but honestly is really not far off from where we're at right now. And I think for me, maybe because I'm obsessive of what's going to not even what's going to happen.
00;03;15;22 - 00;03;42;01
Speaker 1
I don't understand the craze with AI, and I don't understand like the ultimate future of it. You know, like we're hitting a wall, you know, or at least to me, it feels that way of like, okay, so then people don't have jobs. People aren't important. People don't create things like, what is the end goal here? And I think the the movie kind of just says, no, the end goal is not good.
00;03;42;04 - 00;04;10;10
Speaker 1
You know, Sam Rockwell's character, the man from the future Comes and he's like, it's not good. Let me tell you folks. Hey, I world shit. And so I think that there's something that just it made the movie makes me genuinely laugh at some of the observed surges of it. But it also it's nervous laughter, because I think it's really not far off from what's happening or what could happen.
00;04;10;12 - 00;04;35;00
Speaker 1
I know that Verbinski said he pitched this film three years ago. He was trying to shop it around to see if anybody would buy it. I mean, no surprise. I don't think that nobody picked a bigger a studio, did not want to pick it up. You could say, oh, they just don't want our original IP. It's like, no, they probably don't even want to touch the AI factor of it.
00;04;35;00 - 00;04;51;28
Speaker 1
All right. I am sure there's going to be a slew of these types of films to come out at some point. But I doubt that anybody really wants this much bad press for AI.
00;04;52;00 - 00;05;08;18
Speaker 1
Is what I will say are the big studios, because they seem to want to buy into the tech realm of everything. Because and this is just me going on a little rant. The major problem with Hollywood right now is they're all tech people. You know, it's been taken over by tech, and that's why they don't even want to put things in movie theaters.
00;05;08;18 - 00;05;29;25
Speaker 1
They don't want to take a chance on things. They want to gather data and get the numbers and the for streaming service. And guess what? It's not working very well. They're not making a lot of money. So I, I say throw, throw it out the window and go back to creators creating real people, creating real things.
00;05;29;27 - 00;06;15;22
Speaker 1
And that's my little rant before, before we get into the film and our overall feelings of it. Nicole, you got to see it in theaters. To me, I thought that it looked it did look great, even streaming. I think that even though it's a smaller film, I think they made it on a $20 million budget. Verbinski clearly knows how to make settings feel real, how to work with CGI, and I know he even was talking about, like, making some of the things, even though it was computer generated things within the film, he actually wanted to model it after like stop motion, so that it had a real feel to it, that it wasn't so smooth,
00;06;15;22 - 00;06;31;19
Speaker 1
that it didn't feel like tactile. But so I Nicole, you got to see it in theaters. What was it like on the big screen? Did it feel like a big did you feel this world when you were, you know, getting the theater experience?
00;06;31;21 - 00;07;02;24
Speaker 2
Yeah. No, definitely. I mean, and as the movie like progresses, there's obviously things that start happening that are like, I'll just say crazy, like a chat GPT fever. And they were really cool to see actually on the big screen. And then I watched it again on my little screen, and it still looks good on that too. There are certain things that I feel like almost worked better for me on my little screen, probably like toward the end of the movie, just because it may be blown up so big for me.
00;07;02;24 - 00;07;25;17
Speaker 2
I was like a little bit distracted by how it looked. But I also don't necessarily have a problem with that, because I feel like it kind of fed into how we're supposed to be taking the ending of the movie. I'll just that's that's what I'll say about that visually. And just like how we're taking in, like the world that we're seeing and what maybe the AI is creating.
00;07;25;21 - 00;07;45;00
Speaker 2
But it was really, really cool to see. And I remember when I saw it to the theater was pretty full. There were a lot of people, which was nice. It was kind of like a blink and you miss it sort of movie. And I had I knew that it was going to be that way. So I was like, I'm choosing to see this movie this week and I'm going to go put my time into that.
00;07;45;00 - 00;07;46;09
Speaker 2
But it looked. It looked great.
00;07;46;10 - 00;08;24;20
Speaker 1
I do regret, not really, because I did try to see it. I, I really did try to go see it in theaters, but I think it would have been a cool experience on board. So the movie opens with a monologue from Sam Rockwell's character, and I think actually what was very cool about it is that in those opening shots, we are getting the actions of the small gestures, of small actions of the characters that are going to be the people he recruits to help help him save the world or stop AI, basically.
00;08;24;20 - 00;08;54;25
Speaker 1
And so I really liked the I love the camera movement in the beginning. I love the editing norms. Diner, the setup. I think the setting was great and that is like all practical. They really built the sets there and it looked great. And so then going into Rockwell's monologue and it's quite a lengthy monologue, I think it is like the first ten minutes of the movie.
00;08;54;27 - 00;09;16;15
Speaker 1
And I think and I think that they said that the on on the page, it was an 11 page monologue, like in the screenplay, in the script. So that's that's a lengthy take and like swing like to especially this day and age and be like, we're going to go into one characters, you know, ten minute monologue. We're going to take this chance.
00;09;16;21 - 00;09;43;28
Speaker 1
And I think that is actually a very human thing to write. Like we're going to take this chance on, like this kind of drawn out opening. But I think that all the elements are working so well together, and it's Sam Rockwell, so like he's going to make it entertaining. Yes. This role is like kind of for him. They didn't necessarily write it for him specifically, I don't think I think for Venky did say he really wanted to work with Sam Rockwell and vice versa.
00;09;43;28 - 00;10;19;00
Speaker 1
And it took them like 15 years to finally work on a movie together. But this monologue, it was great. It was perfect. It sounded like actually one of my rantings that I'll go on every once in a while. I I'm starting to be excuse me. I'm starting to be like the old man who yells at clouds type. I realize, like, I, I don't know if my family and my friends are going to put up with me much longer with this, with this kind of stuff, but the he's got a line in there that's progress is in progress.
00;10;19;00 - 00;10;38;02
Speaker 1
If it's not making things better and and and it's so true. It's just like we've reached a point where this is not benefiting anybody anymore. I really don't think it is. I mean, if you want to look at the sciences and go into the science field of it and how quickly they compute DNA or something like that, whatever, like, cool.
00;10;38;04 - 00;11;04;19
Speaker 1
That's progress. Whatever's going on with this, you know, blue hockey that like of having it like try to take over everything and create things and like the social media algorithmic, whatever the freak is pushing is not helpful. It's not helpful. I don't think it's progress. Let's go back to movies and I'm cool. I'm here in a podcast right now.
00;11;04;22 - 00;11;29;20
Speaker 1
You could get rid of this, I don't care, get rid of it. I'll go find something else to do as a creative person, or need somebody who needs a creative outlet. Like I think we've hit a point. It's not beneficial anymore. So anyway, that's my little mad old man yelling at clouds. You know, Sam Rockwell, the man from the future sum up of of that.
00;11;29;23 - 00;12;01;05
Speaker 1
And I think it was just a very compelling way to to start the movie. And then, you know what I will say, though, the part that from from getting to the diner and out of the diner, I think might take a little long. I do think there's a lot of like back and forth and negotiation and what they should do because, you know, Rockwell, this is his 117 or 170 time like going through this, which is another like wild concept.
00;12;01;05 - 00;12;17;29
Speaker 1
And he's like, well, I went out the front and we got shot and we went out the back and we got shot. We went here and there and like, so he's very like, I don't know what to do, like this time around. But I do think that might have for me the pacing of that might have could have gone a little faster.
00;12;18;02 - 00;12;44;00
Speaker 1
I know that like we were fed one of the stories of the characters or two of the characters in between it, but maybe we could have gotten to getting outside the diner a little bit quicker, I don't know, how did you. How'd you feel about the pacing of, you know, the intro? Until they get to the next point or they get past the next point.
00;12;44;07 - 00;13;12;01
Speaker 2
The pacing of it works for me. I think it's also because he kind of comments on that, like his other attempts, how far they've gotten, and it seems like just getting out of the diner is like a pretty big hurdle, like in the past for me. Word to, because it kind of starts grounding us. Like you were saying, we get like the start of, like little snippets of the characters so that we understand actually like who these people are, how baby, they ended up there.
00;13;12;01 - 00;13;25;07
Speaker 2
So I was okay with it. I think the first thing that we see is the couple is Janet and Mark, and then in my it might also be Susan's story before we even leave the diner.
00;13;25;07 - 00;13;44;02
Speaker 1
So maybe they could have. Yeah. But we needed Susan's backstory to to get there, so I don't know. Tricky. You know, sometimes when you think you're like, well, if I was, you know, if I was to write this, like, how would I pace it out? And then you think about it and you're like, no, I guess it had to happen that way.
00;13;44;05 - 00;13;46;05
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00;13;46;07 - 00;14;16;17
Speaker 1
But I think now is the point. I'll just get into spoilers because I don't want to talk about this any more with a with with a bar on on top of me. So that's my my spoiler warning for everybody. We're just going to go for it. I have to say that this film felt like a graphic novel, so much so that I immediately, when I finished it, I went, was this adapted from a graphic novel of okay!
00;14;16;18 - 00;15;08;04
Speaker 1
And no, no, it was not. But I think that the characters, especially Sam Rockwell, the man from the future, and Hallelu Richardson's Ingrid, they feel so surreal. In a way. They are very unique in the way that they look and behave and how they're shot, even, like, you know, there's certain compositions of their shot. But like, Rockwell has that backpack, which we get a shot of his his backpack as a child and he's still carrying it when he, you know, as an adult, time traveling Haley Richardson being a princess at birthday parties, she she has that look like a strange look about her, almost because she's got the combat boots on.
00;15;08;04 - 00;15;52;23
Speaker 1
She looks like she's we know later she was in the rain. So we know that she's a little, like, washed out looking. And to me, they you could almost see it as, like, panels, like going through a comic book panel. A lot of the shots, and especially because I feel like the imagery was just pretty vivid. So that's where I was like, oh, maybe, you know, maybe we we are adapting from a graphic novel here also really reminded me of Tokyo Ghost, but the comic by Rick Reminder and Haley Lu Richardson angles plot line with the boyfriend reminds me very much of Of Tokyo Ghosts, but a how was the imagery working for Unico?
00;15;52;27 - 00;16;00;14
Speaker 1
Did you have any specific thing on a second watch that you caught that you were like, oh, I didn't catch that the first time around.
00;16;00;16 - 00;16;18;00
Speaker 2
There were like maybe little things, like, because on the second watch, too, I was like, okay, let me see if there's any like sort of Easter egg stuff because like on a first watch, like I'm not really going to be doing that. I also just like not not that it's not important to me, but I'm just like, okay, that's like an added thing.
00;16;18;03 - 00;16;36;19
Speaker 2
But I noticed this time, like when he goes back at the very end, that like in the claw machine in norms, there's like a couple of stuffed animals that are things that are relevant in the movie, like the little robot that stabbed him. There's a rat in there. He's in the out. Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. And there's a rat.
00;16;36;19 - 00;16;55;24
Speaker 2
And then there looks like an owl. That was one of the toys that was coming after them. And I, I like to that like the images that you're talking about at the beginning that are these very quick little moments of the people in the diner, like something like Janet and Mark in their hands, and he's trying to touch her hand and she pulls away.
00;16;55;27 - 00;17;12;27
Speaker 2
And then seeing all that stuff again, after we know what they've been through and what they're going to go through. Now that you're talking about a two in terms of like a graphic novel, I feel like not just the visuals of it, but I guess then the kind of, you know, the fun, snappy dialog, like it is a very funny movie.
00;17;12;28 - 00;17;35;12
Speaker 2
There's a lot of great, just like lines that I could pick out of there when Mark's asking if there's like, any rules about kids with their phones and one of the other teachers like, are there are there rules in war, Mark? You know, like that kind of where I was like, oh, okay. Like this. It's very snappy. But I think that that does work with the visuals.
00;17;35;12 - 00;18;00;07
Speaker 2
Like you're talking about having Ingrid. Yeah. Like she looks like you look at her and you're like, what's wrong? You know, like something's going on. I think as Sam Rockwell's character says, he's like, no, not you. Like, you have an off your meds kind of look like I'm not messing with you. And the fact that somebody yells at him in the diner are like, you look like you're homeless.
00;18;00;07 - 00;18;04;29
Speaker 2
And he's like, I'll have you know that, like, this is what everybody looks like. This is his style. Yeah.
00;18;05;01 - 00;18;07;09
Speaker 1
You should see the homeless people.
00;18;07;11 - 00;18;33;25
Speaker 2
Yeah. They look but like that, they too like they, they sort of acknowledge that in the movie as well, where people are like, you guys don't fit. And I think that that does work nicely. Then obviously with like the connection that they have, which ends up being like a through line of the movie, that they are kind of separate and different from everybody because they have their own connection and storyline that's going on, but I didn't.
00;18;33;27 - 00;18;55;23
Speaker 2
Now that you say it, though, that you thought that maybe was adapted from a graphic novel, I could definitely see the movie as a graphic novel. Even like the posters for the movie. Like that was something that immediately drew me. And I think the first thing I saw was not a trailer or anything. It was the poster of Sam and all this stuff coming out of his head, and it was just visually, I was like, oh, wow.
00;18;55;23 - 00;19;18;27
Speaker 2
I was like, what's that? So the look of it, everything, it kind of made me think too, of on a second watch because I watched it before. I love boosters, but like when we talked about I love boosters like a very signature special look, that even aside from anything that's like AI or crazy, that kind of happens in the movie like a giant centaur cat.
00;19;19;00 - 00;19;45;01
Speaker 2
I think just just the regular stuff, the way that it shot was really striking. You know, something like when she's coming, when Susan's coming to the school and they show her registering that a shooting has occurred, and then how we switch into the way that the lighting changes to as these women approach her and its opening up this new world to her, where everything could be better and she could have it back.
00;19;45;04 - 00;20;20;12
Speaker 2
I feel like the movie really did take moments where it like what we were seeing. It was trying to signal to us like, this is how you're supposed to be feeling right now without it being to hit you over the head. I think that then that worked really well with I mentioned about how the ending, like when she's talking directly to the AI, like as the boy and like something like having the fetus behind her and she's looking at it and then the blood starts coming down, or, you know, when it's revealed that it is a simulation, everything is too perfect on a second watch.
00;20;20;12 - 00;20;34;24
Speaker 2
It was stuff that I noticed before. I was like, okay, the first time I watched it, I didn't realize that. Now maybe I would clock that. Just from what we're seeing before anybody talks, that we're like, something is wrong, something is off. Something is not a reality here.
00;20;34;26 - 00;21;06;26
Speaker 1
Yes. Specifically the tell for me. I know we're jumping towards the end of the movie, but because you mentioned it, I'll jump to the end. Forgive me. I'll time travel. The the lighting changes when they get out. And they've defeated. Defeated the AI or given it the the good software, the regulating software. And maybe it's just I'm as cynical as the person or the screenwriter, I think.
00;21;06;28 - 00;21;22;27
Speaker 1
I'm not sure. And Ryan, my husband was who I was watching it with, was immediately like, why did they like, what was the why does Zazie Beetz look like? She got a glow up. And I.
00;21;22;27 - 00;21;23;10
Speaker 2
Was like.
00;21;23;11 - 00;21;45;01
Speaker 1
Yeah, everybody was that way, though. Everybody had a glow about them and me. I was like, I saw, I think I must have been picking up on the different kinds of lighting that they were using, as you were saying, and colors even. And so I was like, no, they're in the simulation still. I'm like, everybody has everybody has a glow about them.
00;21;45;01 - 00;22;09;03
Speaker 1
The world does it. It's the same as when she was in talking to the AI and his little, you know, universe thing that he created that pink, and it was like a pink and aqua looking tree and all that. So that was the tell for me that I knew when they got out there. I mean, the first tell was, you know, Ryan was like, why is everybody look like they have like, more makeup on or like a glow or something?
00;22;09;10 - 00;22;39;26
Speaker 1
And and me, I was like, oh, no, during the simulation, like, they're telling us this, you know. So yeah, they did a good job of setting certain scenes where, you know, when it's technology and, you know, when it's human. You know, the human has a grittiness to it. You know, their whole traversing the whole world or the whole block, I don't know, town that they're in, is really dirty.
00;22;39;28 - 00;23;03;29
Speaker 1
It's really, you know, besides, norms, like norms actually looks like a really nice, fun, clean, brightly lit diner. But then everything else. Yeah, like they're in a parking garage. I end up in a dumpster. Yeah, everything does feel kind of grungy. So. Yeah, you're you're right about the. They use the lighting really well to give you tells to, to situate you.
00;23;04;01 - 00;23;30;18
Speaker 1
But there are times where the tells might have been too obvious. Or maybe it's just such an easy kind of prediction because it happens in stories a lot. I kind of immediately had that feeling that Ingrid was going to be Rockwell's mother and from the future's mother. And it didn't bother me that it was like an obvious assumption.
00;23;30;24 - 00;23;46;08
Speaker 1
I think also was like a that is like an easy prediction. Maybe I am wrong on that. Maybe I'm off on it because also we don't know how many years, how far in the future the men from the future is from. Right. Like, I don't think we're ever told how many.
00;23;46;11 - 00;23;47;16
Speaker 2
Think he. Well.
00;23;47;23 - 00;23;48;25
Speaker 1
Does he say it?
00;23;49;02 - 00;23;53;14
Speaker 2
He says that in 50 years they'll create the safety protocols that were.
00;23;53;14 - 00;23;55;06
Speaker 1
Needed and it'll be too late.
00;23;55;13 - 00;23;56;16
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00;23;56;19 - 00;24;13;15
Speaker 1
Okay. But so for that one, I don't think they were hiding. I don't think they were hiding that she was his mom. But should they have I don't know what are your what are your thoughts on that. Did you pick up on it right away or did you make that easy prediction or.
00;24;13;17 - 00;24;32;11
Speaker 2
I think that I started thinking, okay, maybe when he was like telling them about his background and the memory of his mother being killed and like, she hugged him and we don't see her face. And I'm like, when I see something like that, I'm like, I feel like this is priming us to see the scene again later and then show us their face, which is what they did.
00;24;32;14 - 00;24;54;18
Speaker 2
Like you said, I don't necessarily have a problem with that. Maybe it is just something that we're like, oh, this type of narrative, this is probably where it's leading. I think that maybe if I was sort of like about anything, it was that whole conversation that she does have with the AI and the fact that he's like, you know, it's a very dramatic when he touches her stomach and he's like, he never picked you.
00;24;54;18 - 00;25;12;16
Speaker 2
Because if he messes with your life, then he messes with his own, like, you're pregnant right now, you know, like, but even that, I feel like then when we pull back out and it's like, oh, okay, it's a simulation that works for me too, because it is kind of like then like, oh, this is the perfect, like Sam Rockwell says.
00;25;12;16 - 00;25;42;18
Speaker 2
And it's going to give you like, obstacles and fun characters and a perfect kind of ending. So I feel like anything kind of like in the maybe less third or, you know, like the very end of the movie that I was like, like, it's not working as well for me as the beginning of the movie. I also then I'm kind of keeping in mind, like, I feel like the movie is trying to make you feel like, yeah, like this is kind of not bad in a way, but it is maybe like a little bit obvious.
00;25;42;20 - 00;25;58;16
Speaker 2
It's not so nuanced. It's not so creative. Because then that makes sense to me in terms of like everything that's fed into it. And then when you prompt it and then what you're going to get. So it can.
00;25;58;16 - 00;26;00;03
Speaker 1
Be derivative.
00;26;00;06 - 00;26;33;27
Speaker 2
Yeah. Like so I don't really necessarily have a problem with that. If I'm thinking about if there's a version of the movie where they were real earlier that she is his mother, I feel like then they would have to be talking about that. We'd really have to get into like what the future is actually like. We don't really get that much, you know, like we don't get details about, like, these people that he's really working with, how they made the safety protocols, how they know that this is the person that creates the, you know, like all that kind of stuff.
00;26;34;00 - 00;26;34;26
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00;26;34;28 - 00;26;48;04
Speaker 2
I feel like for me, they didn't want to start like doing that too early. So they're like, okay, let's just give him kind of a painful memory and then we'll connect it back. And that'll be his mother. So I didn't really have a problem with it.
00;26;48;07 - 00;27;06;24
Speaker 1
Yeah. I don't think you need to get so in the weeds about what the future is like. And I also think it does, even though I think that this movie does look at. Ivan, very cynically. And it doesn't think that at least I what I'm taking. I don't think it thinks we can't. There is a safety regulation button that would work.
00;27;06;26 - 00;27;09;14
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00;27;09;16 - 00;27;40;06
Speaker 1
I do think that it still was trying to provide the opposite side of things that like, yeah, this world does suck. And being human kind of does suck. So yeah, why wouldn't you want the computer that gives you everything you want? But don't worry, it's going to provide you exactly with the the right amount of hardship and conflict and, you know, to get you what you want.
00;27;40;08 - 00;28;02;26
Speaker 1
And it'll feel satisfying. Right. So I do think that in a way was trying to be like, here is maybe there is an upside. Maybe the man from the future isn't right. I don't know, I was getting a little bit of like, they're trying to give you both sides, even though to me it was pretty clear what side that they were more rooting for.
00;28;02;29 - 00;28;33;01
Speaker 1
But so yeah, I think it was it was trying to, especially with the the boyfriend, Ingrid's boyfriend, who then gets the random VR headset just said to him and guys, that's another like I think it's another like, hey, you know, all this free stuff, you get like social media. Yeah, you're not getting it for free. They want to addict you so that they can collect all your data and don't trust things that are totally free.
00;28;33;01 - 00;28;56;04
Speaker 1
I do think that was a little bit of what they were doing there of like how he just receives the Tim is the character's name, just receives the box for free and he doesn't question it. She's like, did you order this? And I think he might admit to it a little bit, but I don't know. Did you did you think that he actually ordered it or did it just come or I don't know.
00;28;56;07 - 00;29;12;14
Speaker 2
I think that that's one of those things that they did kind of leave up to interpretation for us, that he's being kind of shifty about it. So it seems to suggest to me that it's like maybe he did order and he's just like, I don't it's got here. Or at least that like it did randomly, like you're saying, like it was just sent to them.
00;29;12;14 - 00;29;29;17
Speaker 2
And it's maybe something that he has been thinking about clearly because he's like, I'm just going to try it like right away. So I think either way that you take it that he now has changed as a person, he is the type of person that's like, oh, like, what's it like though? Like I'm just curious about it, which is how they get you.
00;29;29;20 - 00;29;32;10
Speaker 2
What's it like? Yeah. And then you.
00;29;32;12 - 00;29;59;09
Speaker 1
Just try it, you know, it's it's it's all a gateway drug. Right. And and from personal experience with VR headsets actually I've, I don't really love the experience of VR headset because I don't like the weight of it on my head, but, they're fun. They're whatever. The one thing that I was like, oh, God. Like, if this was something I would get addicted to.
00;29;59;10 - 00;30;23;08
Speaker 1
This is the flight of the passage ride at Pandora, the avatar ride where you're allowed to be one of the Navy, and you get on the and and that's kind of like a VR experience where like you get to ride the, the Banshee and, yeah. Like I remember the first time I rode that coming out of it, I was like, oh, I could totally see the appeal now.
00;30;23;10 - 00;30;52;15
Speaker 1
Like the the leaving life behind, living in a VR world, I could totally see the appeal to it. I can totally understand why people get addicted to it. So I his. And then to show that he was like, I'm going to go to this whole and that's I think where like the, the dystopian of the film of the story comes into play, where he's like, I chose her the brochures for this, this VR.
00;30;52;17 - 00;31;06;02
Speaker 1
Yeah. Other world kind of cradles. What would you how would you describe them? They're like bubbles I like. It was very interesting actually. Like the the design of it.
00;31;06;04 - 00;31;06;09
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00;31;06;15 - 00;31;07;14
Speaker 1
Like a little thick.
00;31;07;15 - 00;31;11;14
Speaker 2
Like an incubator or something. Like. Yeah. Pod. There we go. Yeah.
00;31;11;21 - 00;31;36;20
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's how it describes the pod. Yeah. But yeah. Easy. You could see how easily one could be sucked into these, these things. And then if there's. And then there's like no really choice about it too. So that brings us back to I think it's a good like segue to talk about Susan's storage, you know, temple storyline where she's not even really given a choice in the matter.
00;31;36;23 - 00;32;09;07
Speaker 1
The corporation, the tech corporation and the government, which her storyline makes me the most uncomfortable because it's that idea of tacking government pairing together that I find terrifying and I think is a bad idea. And so it's there, and they're preying on the parents who've lost children to gun violence or gun shootings. Arguably, if you had a ton of money, you could just make clones.
00;32;09;07 - 00;32;40;22
Speaker 1
It seems like. And it doesn't have to be, but you get specifically, it's the government subsidized in, that, you know, with Juno's temple's character that is so sad and so predatory and that it's it's sold to her, which now I'm thinking about it, it still to her by a group of very polished looking women who give her the card after I think she's supposed to speak to the the high school about it.
00;32;40;24 - 00;33;08;07
Speaker 1
The her son being in this school. Sure. Dying, being murdered. And she's that's where they come and prey on her. These these three groups of women. And now thinking about it, those could easily be influencer types kind of signal to us right of like this. They all they look so pretty and put together and like happy now and they don't even give her a chance.
00;33;08;07 - 00;33;32;16
Speaker 1
They're kind of like ambulance chasers in that way. She hasn't even had a chance to like, go over what's happening with the school or what happened before. She's then shuffled into this clone world of of of. Are we ever given the name of the tech company or is it just the triangle?
00;33;32;18 - 00;33;38;13
Speaker 2
Yeah. I don't think that we get a name. She just gets like the address on the card and and shows up.
00;33;38;16 - 00;34;01;02
Speaker 1
Yeah. And I'm fine with the, the tech company being some whatever company that we don't know about because let's, let's face it, like maybe this is just again my cynicism all time all tech companies are kind of the same. And then I think that like there's a there's a humor to it. It's a very dark humor about the clone.
00;34;01;02 - 00;34;34;02
Speaker 1
And it's like, again, like this, we'll, we'll give you somebody that looks and sounds and I guess kind of can be your son, but is not. It's just some clone AI that doesn't do a very good job. And it reads an ad once a day. Like for the apple berry drink. And I thought that was funny because then you see the callback to when Zazie Beetz character of Janet was like, I think she was reading an ad for one of her students had like, read something about Apple.
00;34;34;03 - 00;34;34;22
Speaker 2
Oh, the. No.
00;34;34;29 - 00;35;02;18
Speaker 1
You drink? Yeah, yeah. And so then we're like, you're as the audience. If you, you picked up on it and you're like, oh, that kid's one of the clones. Then probably. And that in a school shooting, but it's like when you they meet when Susan goes to like the support group party for it, and she meets the two parents who are like, yeah, we're on our fourth clone.
00;35;02;21 - 00;35;24;21
Speaker 1
They got like, it's like awful. The laugh at because they keep losing their they lost their first daughter in, in a school shooting. Then they got the clone and she gets shot in school shooting and the clones keep getting shot and it's like, yeah. And so we and it's like these parents basically lost their mind and they're like, well, now we just made a clone for entertainment value.
00;35;24;24 - 00;35;56;12
Speaker 1
And it's like, I think also is a credit to temple's acting in, in the scene, her performance, because you're horrified and you're feeling so deeply as I'm feeling so deeply for for this character, for Juno Temple's character, Susan. And at the same time, you're like, what? You're just like. The absurdity of it makes you laugh, but it is darkly devastating.
00;35;56;14 - 00;36;14;27
Speaker 2
I love that conversation that she has with the parents because it is ridiculous. Then we just had fun with it. Like she's really freaking. I laugh every time she comes in the room and like, you can see to like and the actress that plays the mother in that couple, there's like a now in a second watch. I caught it too.
00;36;14;28 - 00;36;32;12
Speaker 2
There's like a split second to where she's saying like, you know, like have fun. Like she makes me laugh every time, like, isn't that the point? And there's like this, she's laughing. But then there's this look on her face where she's like, oh, she says, she's like, we gave up on, like creating our our daughter. You know, we're like, okay, like, forget about that.
00;36;32;12 - 00;36;55;25
Speaker 2
And she looks so pain for a second while she is laughing. So I, like you just said, do you really do get the feeling that. And then I remember in the theater too, like we were laughing because it was so ridiculous. But you're very uncomfortable. But I like that that couple specifically to like it has that idea that I think comes up in a lot of different ways in the movie of like, well, what are we going to do about it?
00;36;55;27 - 00;37;03;17
Speaker 2
You know, like, I think that the dad is like, they're just going to shoot each other anyway, you know, like, okay. It's like, well, what if there's nothing for having.
00;37;03;18 - 00;37;04;14
Speaker 1
About this?
00;37;04;16 - 00;37;21;03
Speaker 2
Yeah. There's nothing. Oh, what are we supposed to do? You know, and like, oh, they're going to talk on their phone in school. Like, what are we supposed to do? You know, like, it's just even if you're. We're in a simulation like that idea too. And you were mentioning about, like, acknowledging for people like the movie being like.
00;37;21;04 - 00;37;39;09
Speaker 2
Yeah, like it does suck. Like a lot of things suck. Like life is very hard and that sometimes I think a lot of people, myself included, that you feel like in terms of a simulation where it's like, how do you change the system while you're in the system? Is it even possible? Like, is there anything that we can do?
00;37;39;12 - 00;38;02;18
Speaker 2
Is there any way that we actually can interact with technology in this advanced technology in a safe way? Like is there a no safe way? And also with that coupled to like when she's laughing and she's like, we laugh a lot, like, isn't that the point? That side of it as well, where like, that's a lot of the ways that we everybody knows everybody knows this, everybody has a phone.
00;38;02;18 - 00;38;22;29
Speaker 2
But how we get pulled into it to where it's like everything is easy as possible, as convenient as possible. Yeah, that the goal is to be entertained all the time, to be as happy as possible. And why wouldn't you want that? And you know, Tim, saying that to where it's like it's the best, it's our world, but it's better in every way.
00;38;23;00 - 00;38;51;02
Speaker 2
It's like how it should have been, like, why would you not want that just because it's not real? And then introducing that idea of like, but how real is our reality too? Like so many things. And I'm like, okay, yeah, this feels too much like our world. Yeah. And even just like that scene itself, like you're saying, like Juno Temple is so Susan and she's so horrified to even find out, she thinks first that they've lost four children, but they're like, no, we lost the same child four times.
00;38;51;02 - 00;39;06;25
Speaker 2
And it was the clone. And she's like, that's the that's the worst thing I've ever heard. And they're just like laughing in her face about like, we just choose to think it's funny now. I think it really does reflect that. We do, obviously that's we all have to do that sometimes, you know, like we all just are laughing about it.
00;39;06;28 - 00;39;11;09
Speaker 2
And then I'm like all over the place, but it's I think it all works very well.
00;39;11;12 - 00;39;13;12
Speaker 1
You're making sense though.
00;39;13;14 - 00;39;34;02
Speaker 2
Thank you. But all the vignettes that we get and all the separate storylines and how they tie together, but that Sam Rockwell says that at the top of the movie to everybody too, and giving that personal responsibility to the audience to of like how we interact with this stuff, where he's like, what did you do when the bookstores disappeared and the record stores, you know, like, what are we all doing?
00;39;34;04 - 00;39;58;27
Speaker 2
Everybody knows that this is bad, but it is just that overwhelming feeling of, well, I can't do anything about, you know, like, what am I supposed to do about it? What am I supposed shootings? Yeah, I can't. And then the government to that, that whole storyline with Juno Temple that I'm like, yeah, this is very on the pulse where the government maybe would be like, how do we we can't stop the we just can't we can't stop this shooting gun.
00;39;58;28 - 00;40;06;16
Speaker 1
Yeah. It's like, why stop the gun lobbyists. So let's make money with the like this would totally happen.
00;40;06;19 - 00;40;25;12
Speaker 2
Yes. That that we would adapt. That would be like, okay, so let's get it so that people aren't so upset about their kids being murdered. Let's give them something that maybe and we'll keep getting better at it and closer and closer, and then we'll find a way to make money off of it. Like, well, the clone thing is very expensive.
00;40;25;14 - 00;40;42;06
Speaker 2
I like about the storyline, too, that they have the two things that are being sold to her, and I think that is a nice connection with what you're talking about with Tim in terms of like, sometimes you do just get something for free and you're like, oh, it's for free. The guy that she meets at the support group that's like, this isn't I feel like you do.
00;40;42;07 - 00;41;03;26
Speaker 2
He just gives it to her and he's like, it's not expensive and it's more real. It's it's better than what this is. So it's like I think that's also why her storyline like it really like you were saying it like, really got to me and made me feel terrible because she was being preyed on, like wherever she went, like her tragedy.
00;41;03;28 - 00;41;20;05
Speaker 2
And people were trying to find their way in how to use it against her. And she just wanted her son back, you know, and like that, that makes it very clear to at the end, like when Sam Rockwell is just like, you're just doing whatever this thing is telling you to do. Like, that's not that's not your son.
00;41;20;08 - 00;41;41;08
Speaker 2
But you understand that she's like, I don't even if you want to believe it badly enough. So she was I thought that storyline was really, really well done. And you mentioned to about her like, I love Juno Temple. She was like another if I saw Sam Rockwell was in it and Juno Temple, I'm like, okay. And I saw it with my partner and he didn't really wasn't so familiar with her.
00;41;41;11 - 00;41;47;19
Speaker 2
And Jeff was like, who's that? You know, he was like, that was that was really amazing.
00;41;47;25 - 00;42;08;02
Speaker 1
You introduce you to Juno Temple. This is actually a great intro to great performance. And if you haven't seen what she's in before, I mean, I think a lot of people do know her from Ted Lasso. Yeah. But yeah, no, she's a great performer. So I'm glad that he was able to to see her and something this profound.
00;42;08;02 - 00;42;34;29
Speaker 1
I think this was a profound role for her. And then speaking about just I did notice the one other thing that really cracked me up, but was also a little terrifying, is like the idea of the government being involved in this is the when the clones are all going, thank you for your service. Thank you for your service to like every military person.
00;42;35;01 - 00;42;38;22
Speaker 2
And that guy, just like he's like, I didn't even serve me and they just.
00;42;38;22 - 00;43;22;13
Speaker 1
Loved I just for that. But it's like, yeah, it's like, you know, it's almost propaganda, right? So it's like, that's a dangerous thing to is when the government, government gets involved in tech, you have to be wary of propaganda and what's being fed to you so. Well, yeah. But I will say like so these stories are their own little like Black Mirror episodes I would say like how we get Janet and Marc, Michael Pinion, Zazie Beetz and then Susan's, and then ultimately Hallelu Richardson's, Ingrid's.
00;43;22;15 - 00;43;58;14
Speaker 1
They work really well as their own little self-contained stories. I know like Ingrid's, it ties into the much bigger picture of the entire story, and that's why her story comes last. But I did appreciate how well they worked as their own little self-contained stories, and I'm not sure if a lot of people would enjoy that because they are bringing a bunch of different ideas like, you know, Michael Pena's character touching a kid's phone and like setting off a weird like that.
00;43;58;16 - 00;44;26;08
Speaker 1
Their phones all go weird triangle pyramid thing. And and then the kids turned into zombies, let go after him and and and Janet, Zazie beach. And it's just like. So that's a totally different kind of thing. Like, that's the social media aspect of it. It's also really funny. One of the girls in the classroom was like, liked a video on TikTok.
00;44;26;08 - 00;44;29;08
Speaker 1
And then it was like, kill yourself.
00;44;29;10 - 00;44;34;29
Speaker 2
Same time.
00;44;35;02 - 00;44;59;01
Speaker 1
So it's just like, it's that like that's that like social media realm of it. Younger people, the younger generation, which I wonder what the younger generation thinks of this film if they saw it, if they're immediately offended. You know, because this, this film does rag on like Gen Z, I think, and like the general for or whatever pretty hard.
00;44;59;03 - 00;45;11;16
Speaker 1
They're basically like they're gone for their zombies. Like best of luck to them. Like, I feel like they kind of write off that generation and there's like evil corrupted brain corrupted evil zombies.
00;45;11;17 - 00;45;20;29
Speaker 2
Well, yeah, I mean, I think to the yeah, there probably are. Maybe if they would see the movie, that would be like, what the fuck? You know, like that's not me. Or like, this is what.
00;45;20;29 - 00;45;22;02
Speaker 1
They think of us.
00;45;22;10 - 00;45;43;24
Speaker 2
Yeah. But that they also like, they show that that an Ingrid storyline to like that it's connected where it's like she goes to the birthday parties and then slowly the kids start all having the phone. So they become the teenagers, they become the ads and stuff. But yeah, I mean, like, it's not such a great look of the teens, even just like the horror, like the fact that there's.
00;45;43;27 - 00;45;56;23
Speaker 2
But then like when they're trapped in the house and then Zambrano looks and said, and he's like teenagers, like it's never been teenagers before. But the way he says teenagers like shit.
00;45;56;25 - 00;46;37;28
Speaker 1
Yeah. Because no other timeline did this happen. The teenagers obvious. So I think they're their own little thing. I think then like, yeah, you've got, Susan's storyline is is grappling a lot with AI. It's very AI oriented and like the, the effects of that. And then Ingrid, I would say is like just is a general anti tech storyline and pro I would say a pro humanity story where she, she wants to experience things, she wants to experience the world outside.
00;46;38;00 - 00;47;11;05
Speaker 1
She wakes up Tim, the boyfriend, to go see the sunrise. And I think maybe we could have even used a little bit more of that. You know, the runtime I didn't think was too long, but I could see where here I am again, and I actually suggested this like to with the Supergirl movie review we did of, I would have cut an action sequence in favor of another scene with a more, you know, down, down to earth scene.
00;47;11;11 - 00;47;42;18
Speaker 1
Not fight scene, not action scene. And then maybe it would suggest like the same thing here. Another like the action scenes were finally they were well done I think in terms of like VFX and all that, but I think that we could have removed 1 or 2 of the running away from things scene or shortened it, and maybe given Ingrid a little bit more time to, to be a little bit more, even more human, rather than simply she's allergic to tech.
00;47;42;20 - 00;48;06;25
Speaker 1
But, I mean, we were given that the one scene that we needed of her just enjoying the sunrise and being a human and having sex. So like actual human connection that that like makes all the difference to in life of just connecting with another person. So I don't know, what were your feelings on that? Do you think we had it enough through?
00;48;07;00 - 00;48;27;08
Speaker 1
Was there enough through line through all? I guess my question would be we have enough through line, through all the stories, to come away with. And I'm not saying that this movie was trying to give you an ultimate message, but was there enough through line, through them all to make them feel coherent and cohesive?
00;48;27;10 - 00;48;38;20
Speaker 2
I think so, I mean, I do. I don't disagree with you that I would have probably enjoyed more time spent with. Yes, probably specifically Ingrid.
00;48;38;23 - 00;49;00;07
Speaker 2
Instead of maybe like, I probably would have cut the scene where they are trying to get away from the guys and then the asks and then the car and like that whole thing, like it goes on for a while and it is enjoy. It is enjoyable though, you know, like it is enjoyable. And then that's also a lot of that's important before they start running away, because we need to get the whole like everyone being like, who even is this guy?
00;49;00;09 - 00;49;22;12
Speaker 2
Like, why would we do this? Why would we believe him kind of stuff. But for me, by the end of the movie, like having those separate stories, they all kind of nicely led into each other or looped back, you know, something like you were saying about, oh, we realize now that that kid was a clone, that she was passing notes in class, and she's like, it was like an ad.
00;49;22;14 - 00;49;29;05
Speaker 2
And there's also in Mark's class, there's a girl that's like, I need a Pepsi, Evan. And you keep saying Pepsi, kind of like.
00;49;29;07 - 00;49;29;20
Speaker 1
Pepsi.
00;49;29;21 - 00;49;56;10
Speaker 2
Pepsi, Pepsi, Pepsi like that. That is also like a clone that Tim and his storyline with Ingrid when he brings up. I think I'm just going to go on a sabbatical. So then we think back to all the teachers that were going on, sabbaticals that I think the purpose of all those vignettes, I think it's successful, is to show us that, like Sam Rockwell's character, the man from the uterus, coming back to be like, it's going to be really, really awful in the future.
00;49;56;10 - 00;50;29;05
Speaker 2
But then you see, for all the characters to that it's already happening, that it's already starting. And they they know that. So that it's like that moment when he is with them, when they're trying to get away from the guys and he's like, you know, you see the writing on the wall and like, you want to do something about it, you know, like he I think that's why to it seems like he asks for volunteers first, and then he just starts picking random people that he wants people to join that are like, yeah, you know, like that are inspired by his speech or like part of the revolution and like, things are really bad and
00;50;29;05 - 00;50;54;21
Speaker 2
I want to do something about this and that by the end of the movie, I don't think it's completely like, this is useless. Like we're never like we're fucked already. I think, though, that it is like a healthy amount of pessimism about the fact that it might be too late. We might not also be able to this idea of safety protocols.
00;50;54;22 - 00;51;09;10
Speaker 2
You know, that we at the very last ending the movie, he throws it away. The whole thing that was like the big mission that we're supposed to have been following the whole movie and cared about. And, okay, we're going to go in a different way. We're going to go with a different plan, and we don't really know what's going to work.
00;51;09;13 - 00;51;30;28
Speaker 2
But I think that that was the message that I took away from it. And I felt, especially on the second watch, that it was very strong and kind of joyful in the hellscape that the movie is presenting and how we, I think right now often feel that you got to try, you know, like he's like, I'm going to keep I'm going to keep doing teams of people.
00;51;30;28 - 00;51;48;21
Speaker 2
And maybe there's something that we could do. And it seems like his last plan that we're leaving the movie with is that he wants to try and infect everybody with what she has somehow. So then you would just be allergic to it, which is kind of a known could. You can't use it, use.
00;51;48;22 - 00;51;57;20
Speaker 1
Wi-Fi or. Yeah, any technology really, which I don't know. Maybe it would be better.
00;51;57;22 - 00;52;18;15
Speaker 2
I don't know either, but it definitely does seem like the movie is also like positing that in terms of like, yes, it starts with children, right? We get them hooked on it. And from the very beginning it's like, okay then like, how hard is it going to be to step away from that when you get older? You know, so we're kind of creating an impossibility already.
00;52;18;16 - 00;52;41;22
Speaker 2
Like it starts really young or Tim's whole big speech to about like, why would you not want things to just be better? Like, what is the point of what is the point of any of these things like that? You're going to be preyed on because the powers that be and that are trying to sell you something, know that you're probably real bogged.
00;52;41;24 - 00;53;03;28
Speaker 2
You're probably, wow, everything really sucks. So I think that the movie through those stories, by the end of it, I feel very satisfied and that I was like, I was not left in a hopeless place, but I wasn't left in a place where I would have been if they went with like, this is the real ending, which is the simulation of like we defeated it and we plugged it in and we got the safety protocols.
00;53;04;02 - 00;53;11;01
Speaker 2
That is an audience member that lives in reality. I would have been like, but no, you know, like that wouldn't have been satisfying either.
00;53;11;01 - 00;53;37;06
Speaker 1
So I also, I do like the fact that Ingrid knows it's not well after. Does Rockwell's character be like this? Isn't it? Yeah, he does. And that's when she's like, freaks out and she's doesn't want whatever the AI is trying to sell. Her team comes back and is like, I made a huge mistake and blah, blah, blah. And it's really like a fever dream.
00;53;37;06 - 00;53;59;27
Speaker 1
Like, if you've ever had dreams that are like wish fulfillment dreams, that's how it felt to me. You know, if you ever had a dream where things turn out the way you wanted it to, when in reality it doesn't. I mean, that's happened to me quite a few times. The devastating ness of like, waking up to it not being that, but also that's life, you know, like, that's just.
00;53;59;28 - 00;54;26;20
Speaker 1
But she was immediately like, okay, she's a crazy person. Let's like, get her out of here. Let's. And I feel like that's almost like what they're trying to be like. What do you mean you don't? You don't want this utopia of AI technology. I think they are trying to make us the people who are questioning it, trying to make us out to be crazy people and be like, well, we've always had technology and we've always, you know, the progress is inevitable and just get on board.
00;54;26;22 - 00;54;58;06
Speaker 1
You could totally see that. Like if you don't get on board, you there might be a future of like yeah look at this. Anti tech crazy person. You know I mean I have more hope in humanity than that. I do feel like a lot of us are kind of rallying against it. This movie and even you could say like I love boosters is kind of rallying against this idea of like a corporate takeover of of our culture, of our values, of our humanity, and trying to sell it back to us and prey on us.
00;54;58;08 - 00;55;17;14
Speaker 1
So, I don't know, like I just went on, I could go on a rant about these sorts of things. So, yeah, you could totally see that. And that would have been a devastating ending, right? I think a realistic one, too, if she just gets carted away as crazy because she doesn't accept the simulation. So I do think it does like, as far as it does end on a more hopeful note.
00;55;17;14 - 00;55;43;11
Speaker 1
And then also there was like, yeah, it could have like you were saying, like it could have ended on the it worked to say the safety regulations are in place and it worked. Which again, maybe I'm just on the same page as this screenwriter Matthew Robinson is that name is, yes. Who's very cynical about it and doesn't think safety regulations are going to matter.
00;55;43;14 - 00;56;11;00
Speaker 1
I don't I don't think they would if the same people who are making the safety regulations, which we kind of are suggested to in the film, that, you know, the person, the AI, whatever AI company is in Susan's ear talking to her son. Right? They I was like, well, if this AI because I'm just, you know, highly suspicious of AI is telling her, hey, go do this, this, this and this and put the safety regulations in.
00;56;11;04 - 00;56;36;22
Speaker 1
It has its own motive, right? That AI is kind of in band with the other AI that like, put the safety regulations in and the safety regulations are it's all a utopia and great. But it's not it's not a fix. It's not whoever's we don't know who's creating these safety regulations. Are we really going to leave like the safety regulations up to the tech companies who created the AI?
00;56;36;24 - 00;56;58;01
Speaker 1
Like, that's an insane thing to think, right? And maybe that's a cynical thing to say or a pessimistic thing to say that I don't think it's going to get better. You know, so I'm in agreement on the movie on that. I don't, I don't think, I don't think there are any safety regulations that make it better.
00;56;58;04 - 00;57;19;02
Speaker 2
No. And that we're very vulnerable to it. And even you mentioning like, the avatar ride, which I also thought was cool as shit, and that was the one time in my life where I was like, yeah, okay. Like I got off of that and I was like, I feel like I walked off of it and I was like, no, like I was just, you know, I was like in a wonderful place.
00;57;19;04 - 00;57;38;01
Speaker 2
So I was like, oh, no, like, it wasn't real. That somebody that you believe and you understand and, you know, people like this too. And maybe you've had those moments that Tim could be that person that's like, I don't do cell phones, man. You know, like I use my map. And then he does it and he says to her to like, I wish I hadn't done it.
00;57;38;02 - 00;58;03;27
Speaker 2
Like I wish I had never tried it, but now I know what it can be like. And then once you do, it's so hard to go back in any way like any of these things now that make our lives easier. Or, you know, if you feel bored or shitty and then you just look at something or whatever, you know, like it's good, it feels nice, and then it's really hard to stop doing it.
00;58;03;27 - 00;58;20;21
Speaker 2
Like that's why, like, I also don't think that the movie is, you know, we're talking about is of you maybe of younger people like, I don't I don't think that it's necessarily fully to like blaming. I feel like the movie is also saying, like, maybe a lot of you are like this, but like, it's not necessarily your fault.
00;58;20;21 - 00;58;44;23
Speaker 2
And like, this has been going on for a while and nobody's really done anything about it. And we all know that this is where we are heading. So I feel like the movie, it definitely it feels like it is our reality in a way that sometimes. Yeah, when I was watching it, it makes me kind of like uncomfortable because I feel like everybody has moments like that to where it's like, I mean, well, it sucks, but like, what are we to do?
00;58;44;25 - 00;58;48;02
Speaker 2
You know? And you just, like, don't even want to think about it. Yeah.
00;58;48;03 - 00;59;11;19
Speaker 1
I mean, I think that's why, like I did walk away from the movie going, I really enjoyed it. There's a lot to chew on. It's, it's, but it makes you uncomfortable and it makes me even, I guess, to try to wrap up the episode or this episode a little bit. I almost had the thought. I'm like, oh, well, we have to talk about this on the podcast.
00;59;11;21 - 00;59;28;26
Speaker 1
Not that we have to. We don't have to do what we could do whatever we want, like it's for our own enjoyment. But I was like, how am I going to talk about this? And then go put this on YouTube and cut shorts for it to promote it and put it into the algorithm to get the algorithm to pick up on it.
00;59;28;27 - 00;59;52;27
Speaker 1
Because like, you always have to like put in something exaggerated in a, in a thumbnail or in, in your opening thing to get people to watch and get people to listen or, or click. And, and it's like me who really hates these things. It is that like weird challenging choice though, right? Like, but how else am I going to get, you know, how like even the word of mouth of this movie, right.
00;59;52;29 - 01;00;18;12
Speaker 1
Like even like a promotion of this movie, it's like, well, how else are you going to get the word out to like, go watch this film, right? I guess this is my, my rationale for it or my logic for like, feeling okay about, you know, putting this out on the internet and asking people to, to engage with it is like, okay, do it, but then wake the fuck up, right?
01;00;18;13 - 01;00;47;28
Speaker 1
Like, you know, it's kind of like blisters too. It's like, okay, you know, this is going on. And I think that's the beauty of like of, of the film medium, right? It's still that like one last, I mean, besides reading books. Right. And I'm not going to shit on like the book talk stuff like there's their own problem with like some of the books that probably really easy reads and like, you're not really getting a lot out of it.
01;00;48;01 - 01;01;07;28
Speaker 1
But, like, I'm not going to even get into to that problem of like, people not even reading the books that they are purchasing. And they only, like, I've heard that they only read dialog. Now, this is a thing they don't like. They read sex scenes in dialog and like they don't read any of the other narration in the book.
01;01;08;01 - 01;01;35;28
Speaker 1
I don't, I don't know, I don't know if people are actually doing this. Anyway, It's but I think that the film medium is, like still a great medium to try to keep alive, to try to keep, deeper, more complex, grapple with like bigger stories that don't cookie like, there's no like this one is we're not I'm not giving you this easy, simple, digestible thing.
01;01;35;28 - 01;02;16;16
Speaker 1
There's contradictions in it. You know, so I think that maybe this is just my love of film. I think that encouraging people to continue to watch film and to put effort into it as humans, as filmmakers, I think is like one of our last, like, shots at, like keeping our humanity, you know, like if our entertainment goes the way of podcasts that are talking about AI created slop, you know, or short form content that doesn't make you keep your attention for very long.
01;02;16;19 - 01;02;24;29
Speaker 1
Like, what hope do we have? You know, and so maybe that's just like my thing is like, thank God we still have films.
01;02;25;02 - 01;02;45;14
Speaker 2
Yeah, thank God we saw films. And also you were just mentioning about reviews and I feel like there's a lot of creators that I follow on YouTube, and lately I've seen a lot of them bring up the algorithm and the idea of like, because it'll be like a subject that they're talking about for the video, and they'll be like, no, I know what you're thinking.
01;02;45;15 - 01;03;06;20
Speaker 2
Like, I'm here and this is what I'm doing, and that you have to be kind of part of it, because what's the alternative then? It's not going to get out there. I feel like this kind of a movie two is maybe one that people are not going to know is on streaming and they're not going to have.
01;03;06;22 - 01;03;22;13
Speaker 2
Maybe they didn't even see that it was advertised when it first came out. There's a lot of movies like that. There's a really good movie I saw called is God Is that came out, and I feel like it was not out at all. And then I saw people talking about that too, but they're like, where can I say the movie?
01;03;22;13 - 01;03;46;14
Speaker 2
And it just completely and an example of like some of these movies that I feel like I've been seeing the last few years that are so creative and different and, and feel very special. And a lot of times those movies, it's like I was going to say, they don't want you to see them like it's not given the the acknowledgment, like the advertising, you know, and then people don't know about them.
01;03;46;14 - 01;04;04;04
Speaker 2
And then people are just like, well, movies are shit or whatever. And it's like movies or not shit. You know, like there's a million movies that I could see that I haven't seen yet that are amazing. And that's something that I do like to use the internet for, where there are certain people that I, they suggest something and I'm like, oh, that's interesting.
01;04;04;04 - 01;04;19;18
Speaker 2
And there's a lot of movies I've found that way, or from you, you know, there's a lot of who does it to me that I either didn't hear about or I was like, I don't know, you know? And then you're like, no, something like the Starling girl that like, I probably never would have seen really, really great movies.
01;04;19;18 - 01;04;43;05
Speaker 2
And I think it is also a great way this movie is an example of that, to deal with these things that you are dealing with in your everyday life and making people feel a little bit less shitty. I would think just in like acknowledging it. Like even if the movie's not like we can overcome it, just acknowledge and like I think it makes people feel better sometimes to just be like, yeah, like things are really stuck and this is scary.
01;04;43;06 - 01;05;06;15
Speaker 2
Yeah. Like this is bad. Like I think also then having like a narrative or like being in a movie theater and be able to see that and people creating something that's saying like, oh yeah, like I know too, you're like, this is how it is. And seeing it through that sci fi kind of lens to that it feels it can be entertaining and it feels like it's a little bit safer, but it's also letting you know, like, no, but it's real.
01;05;06;16 - 01;05;19;08
Speaker 2
Like all that stuff that we talked about in this movie that it's surreal, but all those little storylines are not that they're not that far from where we're like, okay, yeah, probably. That's probably that's going to happen.
01;05;19;11 - 01;05;51;07
Speaker 1
Yeah. And you know, these these filmmakers, they're not just I mean, sure. Yeah, there's the Philip K dicks who are like, I don't know how that man story is that the future? But like an example of someone who is like, no, I'm not predicting the future. I'm just taking what's already happening and I'm projecting maybe the worst case scenario, you know how, like Margaret Atwood, when she wrote The Handmaid's Tale, was like, this wasn't anything that wasn't happening already.
01;05;51;10 - 01;06;17;18
Speaker 1
I took from real life. And I went and I said, okay, what would happen if, you know, I push this to the extreme or the conclusion if no one steps in and stops it? You know, I think this is what this movie is doing, right is like taking well, it's already telling you what the you know, what's funny is it takes place in the present, but it already has a really like dystopian stuff.
01;06;17;18 - 01;06;42;22
Speaker 1
So it might be technically like the future or watching the future of the guy of the future that comes back from like another other type of future. But I think that it was purposeful and being like, no, this is the present. This is happening right now. So I think that, yeah, I think that the screenwriter Matthew Robinson took took the ideas and okay, well, this is the foregone conclusion of what will happen, right?
01;06;42;25 - 01;07;06;07
Speaker 1
And what's like the worst things that could happen to these people in the present that would make an awful future, right? I think that's what he was doing. Same thing with like, what I brought up Tokyo Ghost, the comic by recommender. The writer. Recommender. I think he already, by the way, guys, like, if you're not into comics, it doesn't matter.
01;07;06;08 - 01;07;30;29
Speaker 1
Go read. Go read Tokyo Ghost like I, I love it, I adore it, and it's very much like the Ingrid and the boyfriend storyline like Tokyo Ghost is is that storyline to a to a further degree? Like if you want to be like, well, what would Ingrid's story be like if like, you know, she didn't come into contact with her son in the future and try to beat this AI or whatever?
01;07;31;00 - 01;07;52;22
Speaker 1
Like I think Ingrid's story is literally Tokyo Ghost. So if you're like, curious about more of a type of story like that and like what the conclusion would be or whatever, if she, like, tried to, it was a little slightly different. And she's trying to stay with the boyfriend or whatever, like go read Tokyo Ghost. It is definitely that kind of storyline and it's great.
01;07;52;22 - 01;08;14;15
Speaker 1
But yeah, like I think Rick remainder was seeing the writing on the wall, you know, like as like Sam Rockwell character says, it's like we all see the writing on the wall. We all know where this is going. And I think we all do. I think we all have this innate call it our intuition. As humans. We all know, I think a good portion of us know where this leads and are not comfortable with it.
01;08;14;20 - 01;08;37;01
Speaker 1
So I think these movies and these stories are just being like and especially like the writers and the filmmakers of these kinds of stories is like, we know this is going on and we're predicting like what will happen. So but it's not pulled out of thin air. You know, these are predictions based on like the reality that we're already in.
01;08;37;04 - 01;08;38;29
Speaker 1
Did that all make sense?
01;08;39;01 - 01;08;43;08
Speaker 2
It did. No. It really okay.
01;08;43;11 - 01;08;50;07
Speaker 1
You know, like when you get into like a flow and you're like, I don't know if this is making sense anymore.
01;08;50;09 - 01;08;53;10
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah.
01;08;53;13 - 01;09;30;11
Speaker 1
So I would I would finish with that thought of the movie is I think it's also kind of giving you this. Hey, we can do something about this. I don't know if there's something about this is infecting us all with. I mean, maybe that was like, the one, like, kind of not hopeful thing is like, well, the only way to to stop this is to to infect us all with being allergic to technology, basically, or the internet and I but I think though the character is a hopeful character of like, well, I'm not going to stop trying and I'm not going to sit here and I'm going to find other people who don't want to,
01;09;30;17 - 01;09;36;17
Speaker 1
who don't want to just sit and watch it happen. So I think in that way it is hopeful.
01;09;36;20 - 01;09;55;02
Speaker 2
Yeah. And the, you know, the title of the movie and that's supposed to be to something that they say to each other in the virtual reality. But like when you have the voices like, you know, yelling it at the beginning and I think at the end to like, good luck, have fun, don't die that very much. Yeah. Like, you know, he's talking, they're talking to us.
01;09;55;06 - 01;10;17;25
Speaker 2
And it's like, we'll try, try and have fun along the way. Try not to die, but sort of. Yeah. Just saying. And that's Sam Rockwell to like every time he gives them kind of like a little speech. It's not super hopeful. You know, he's like some are you going to die if we do this, something terrible is going to happen.
01;10;17;25 - 01;10;39;16
Speaker 2
I've watched so many awful things, but like, we still have to do this, you know, and you can come or you could not come. I think I appreciate it on a second watch even more, the way that they did use those little vignettes and that they didn't also go to overboard with them. I think, you know, like every person that is in the group, we don't need a vignette for every one of them.
01;10;39;19 - 01;10;57;15
Speaker 2
We could just have a woman that wanted to eat some pie and she was in the wrong place, wrong time. And also, just like that, I like all the stuff we're talking about is like heavy, real stuff. But the movie is also just really funny, and the cast is so charming and it's just a really good film.
01;10;57;16 - 01;11;18;03
Speaker 1
So I'm assuming that you watched it if you listened all the way through to all the spoilers, I hope you enjoyed it. I mean, let us know if you had any other if you had any problems with it that we maybe didn't bring up or anything that you noticed that we didn't bring up, let us know. That'd be fun in the coming weeks.
01;11;18;03 - 01;11;50;13
Speaker 1
I think, like the Odyssey comes out, I think I know the Odyssey comes that they've done plenty of marketing for it. The Odyssey comes out this weekend and I'm sure we'll be covering it at some point. We were supposed to talk about this is a rant. And, you know, most people dropped off already. But if you're still listening, originally, Nicole and I were going to talk about the bride, and then we watch The Bride, and I was like, I don't I don't know what to say about this.
01;11;50;15 - 01;12;18;22
Speaker 1
Which Maggie Gyllenhaal second film starring Jessie Buckley, but it did make me want to go, okay, well, why do I still trust this filmmaker? And it was going to be a talk about The Lost Daughter, her her directorial debut. So maybe we will eventually jump on that, because I like to watch far and wide in everything, and I think that there's no niches are for niches are for algorithms.
01;12;18;25 - 01;12;46;26
Speaker 1
You know, like I don't know if just like that's for for categories of things. And like I know there's people who get, you know, really into one kind of jhana. And I might even like, you know, sci fi more than I like straight dramas, which isn't true. I love them both equally, but, you know, so but I think it's just good to, like, expand what you're watching, what you're thinking about.
01;12;46;29 - 01;13;08;11
Speaker 1
Even even this film might be up my alley, but it might not be up some of other people's alley or even like Supergirl. I'd still, like, encourage you. Like it's fun. If you're looking for fun, there's plenty of movies out there and just yeah, stay curious.
01;13;08;13 - 01;13;11;02
Speaker 1
You have anything else you want to add? Nicole?
01;13;11;05 - 01;13;20;12
Speaker 2
No. It works nice though, with its film. Curious. So that'll be a nice little tagline. Stay here. Yeah I see.
01;13;20;14 - 01;13;22;29
Speaker 2
It's very like it.
01;13;22;29 - 01;13;23;17
Speaker 1
Took it took me.
01;13;23;18 - 01;13;30;05
Speaker 2
Away to come up with something. Now I like it. We'll stick with that I think.
01;13;30;08 - 01;13;50;16
Speaker 1
I think so. All right. Thanks for listening. Watching. However you're consuming it, make sure to follow if you want to see what we do next. If not, whatever is cool, it's going to go out there anyway, so we'll see you real soon and take care.
01;13;50;20 - 01;13;52;17
Speaker 3
Bye bye.