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Where cultivation excellence meets unfiltered insight—the Corner Office—hosted by Greg Dunaway. Powered by AROYA's revolutionary approach to data-driven growing, we bring you the brightest minds behind today's biggest breakthroughs.
Stay ahead in this rapidly evolving landscape, from cutting-edge solutions to market strategy.
Greg Dunaway [00:00:13]:
So, Amy, thank you again for jumping on this morning. I want to dive into probably the most salient topic of the week, year, month, which is know from your vantage point, when we see the market compressing, erosion of margin, either you know, where you've had so much experience at the brand level or at, you know, RX Green, you know, what's it, what was it like at tilt to see it compressing and what's it like now in this new role that you have?
Amy Larson [00:00:44]:
It's, you know, when I was. So when I was at tilt, it was interesting to watch it compress because we were, you know, we had dispensaries and brands in Massachusetts. Right. Massachusetts has seen some of the, saw some of the most rapid price compression at that time back in, you know, 2022, 2023. I think as much as it kind of sucks to hear it, it's a right sizing of the market. Right. I think there were a lot of growers, there were a lot of brands, there were a lot of companies, whether they were, you know, MSOs or not, that were, you know, looking to capitalize the most on, you know, the green rush while it was happening. And the problem was, I don't think a lot of people really put truly thoughtful operational business plans in place.
Amy Larson [00:01:31]:
And I think a lot of people forgot about high school economics, the law of supply and demand. What happens with supply and demand? As supply increases, then price drops. As demand increases, price goes up. So as we're flooding the market with all of, all of these products and all of this flower, I think there were two things happening. I think one, we had not created enough consumer demand. And two, there was just an oversupply. So that's a natural correction of the market. Not just on the, the, the tilt side, on the cultivation side.
Amy Larson [00:02:05]:
You know, we also are seeing it on, you know, now being on the ancillary side at RX Green, you know, there was a thinking at one time that, oh, well, we, you know, going from being vertical and brands and all of the things and plant touching to being back on the ancillary side would be a little bit easier. And it's, it's really not because our customers and our partners are also, you know, subject to the margin compression. Everybody's looking to create operational efficiency. Everybody's looking to try to get more out of their dollar, more out of their teams. And that's what I think that we're seeing come, you know, compress in the market and again, think it's affecting people's jobs, it's affecting people's brands, it's affecting people's, you know, success. And I think there is, you know, there's a lot of things that are out of everyone's control at this point. Two ade descheduling, all rescheduling, all of those things that we've kind of been waiting on, not getting a lot of traction on. But I think I, I think a significant chunk of the compression that we're seeing is really a right sizing of, of the market.
Amy Larson [00:03:07]:
And I think it's something that all, all industries go through. We're just doing it under a microscope and it's happening extremely, extremely fast.
Greg Dunaway [00:03:15]:
And it's painful.
Amy Larson [00:03:16]:
I don't want to. I don't want to. I don't want to diminish that. It is painful.
Greg Dunaway [00:03:19]:
Yeah, it's definitely painful. I think, I think, you know, from a, from a cultivation side, which I know you, you've had so much experience and it's, it's absolutely brutal. It's like the, it's like the scene in the Patriot where, you know, they're running down the hill and, you know, everyone's getting sniped next next to Mel Gibson, you're just going like, oh, another cultivation one, another guy fell, and you're just kind of waiting to see if that, if that last bullet's headed for you. You know, from that, from that cultivation side, I think, I think it's very difficult because of the compression and the wholesale model. What do you, what is your expectation for the companies that are going to make it? You know, and you can talk about it because I know you've had so much experience, not only on the marketing side, but, you know, you've kind of looked at companies and evaluated them. You know, who do you think is going to come out of this on the dispensary brand cultivation side?
Amy Larson [00:04:07]:
I think it's going to be the businesses that have put together a plan that is based on the current reality of the finances, of the market, of the consumers. Anyone who has gone into this industry with the expectation that 280e is going to go away with the expectation that rescheduling, descheduling is going to happen. The federal legalization is going to happen. Those. You can't build a successful business or a successful brand on the hopes of tomorrow, really, you have to create a sustainable business model within the constraints of what you're working in today. And I also think from a brand perspective, from a Product perspective. You have to have a brand that resonates with people and it has to be authentic to you and to what you're trying to do. But it also has to, it also has to resonate with the people that you're trying to sell it to.
Amy Larson [00:04:58]:
And that authenticity and that reality needs to kind of be rooted in every layer of, of your business and your organization. And I think we also have to stop expecting that just price is going to win on everything. And right now it is. But ultimately, you know, once you convince, you know, and this is, Greg, you've been in marketing too. This is not a new, a new adage like once you convince a coupon shopper to buy using a coupon, you're never going to get them to pay full price. And if that's your business model, that's, that's fine, but that's not, if you want to set yourself up as a, as a high end brand or a luxury brand, you can't be discounting it all of the time because you're eroding your own value. That is kind of a roundabout answer to your question.
Greg Dunaway [00:05:46]:
No, it's 100% true. I mean, I had a meeting with an unnamed dispensary earlier this week and it's like, you know, it's funny, they won't say it publicly, but they will privately acknowledge they know they've nuked the market. They know it. They know that they have essentially nuked the market in terms of creating these monsters that don't want to just shop for anything other than what's my deal day, what's my deal day, what's my deal day? And then it becomes very interesting when, and I'm sure you've seen some of this too, where people were over aggressive in buying up all these grows and now they have excess material at the MSO level. It's like, well, we better push it through at any price. And that's just not nuking the market.
Amy Larson [00:06:26]:
Yeah. And the MSO model, you know, when you're vertical, you obviously want to own. You, you own and you push out your own brand, your own product. Right. You, you capture the most margin that way. The problem is consumers don't necessarily want to buy just your brand. And consumers, consumers who are, who understand cannabis are now understanding that, oh, this is the same strain in three different boxes. Why am I paying, you know, $15 for it here and $20 for it here and $30 for here? Consumers are, consumers are savvy to that and they've understood that.
Amy Larson [00:06:58]:
I think the discount model, the drive to the bottom, like, it's just. I honestly think some of it has been. It's happened out of desperation, and I think it's happened out of desperation due to the limits that we've had placed on us. From a marketing perspective, how else do you advertise what you can sell? How else do you get in front of customers when you're trying to get in front of consumers with, you know, with half of the tools in your tool belt that a normal cpg, a normal product would have to work with? And so I think some of that has been out of desperation because we're not able to cross state lines, we're not able to advertise freely, we're not able to do all of these things. And again, you still have to have a solid brand in place to do that. But I think some of the. You're right. You know, you've got all of this excess product now.
Amy Larson [00:07:46]:
We've got to, you know, get rid of it. But it's kind of an easy button. Discounting is an easy button to get rid of product. And I think ultimately it's just gonna. It's gonna. It's gonna kill. It's. It's not gonna kill the industry.
Amy Larson [00:07:59]:
It's gonna. It's gonna really harm the future, you know, profitability of a lot of brands coming into this space.
Greg Dunaway [00:08:06]:
Yeah, completely agreed. And it's funny that you, you had a lovely dovetail there into my next question for you. Look, you had a really funny quote, I think, when you and I were talking a couple weeks. Space in cannabis is basically having both of your hands tied behind your back.
Amy Larson [00:08:23]:
Yes.
Greg Dunaway [00:08:24]:
You know what? Just as a general level, we'll get into some specifics later. Like as a general rule, how do you try and. How do you try and get around all the regulatory bullshit that, that you and I are subjected to? What, what, where, where, you know, where do you. Where do you look for some strategy and tactics that might actually be effective?
Amy Larson [00:08:45]:
So. So I will actually back that up just a step, Greg. And what you have to start with is what your goal is. And if your goal is just to drive revenue, it's just to sell products, or is your goal to build brand awareness and build brand visibility? Because those require totally different strategies and then totally different tactics, and they're obviously complimentary. But if, if my goal is to drive, you know, to drive product sales, to drive, you know, you know, sell through, I'm going to put tactics in place, like, you know, making sure I've got My loyalty program set up, make sure I've got good in store signage, making sure I've got, you know, whatever local geotargeted advertising I can do to get in front of my cons, my customers. Can I get involved in community events? How can I reach, you know, how, how can we explore, honestly, some of the. I don't say old school, but I'm old school, Greg. So some of the more traditional tactics that are not just Facebook and Meta and Instagram and TikTok advertising that we know are going to get shut down.
Amy Larson [00:09:46]:
How do you actually connect with your customers and how do you actually get to them? If you're really trying to grow brand visibility and brand awareness, which is what I've been really trying to work on in tandem with selling products at RX Green for the last year and change, you've got to start looking at things like thought leadership and conferences and, and content that you can create and really building that kind of brand trust and visibility so people at least know who you are, which then makes ultimately that sell a little bit easier. When you've got sales guys who are reaching out and talking to people who are like, hey, let me tell you all about who RX Green is, that I'm able to help shorten that conversation. When people like, oh, I know who you are. Oh, I saw you. Oh, I've seen your ads, I've talked, you know, so it depends ultimately on what your goal is. And then, you know, there's some really unique things on the garden side, on the dispensary side, there are ways to get around the filters, but I think ultimately you have to just put your efforts where they're going to support your goals. And one last thing, I'll say, because I had, when I was at tilt, there was. I had a senior leader on my team who kept harping on social media.
Amy Larson [00:11:03]:
Why is this on social media? Why aren't we putting it on social media? Why are, why isn't it on our Instagram? And I'm like, because we've had that account shut down so many times. We have a handful of followers and we're not. It's not really driving traffic. It wasn't driving at the time. That channel was not driving traffic back to our website. It was not driving sales. So we chose to put our efforts into the platforms and into the places that actually were driving traffic and driving sales. And I think just because everybody's doing it is not a good enough reason to do it.
Greg Dunaway [00:11:36]:
Completely agree. If you're, especially if you're Resource strapped. Like everybody is.
Amy Larson [00:11:40]:
Yeah, everybody's resource strapped.
Greg Dunaway [00:11:41]:
Yeah. I mean, I. I still, you know, I still go and do bud tender trainings myself. Right. You know, I. You could argue is that the best use of my time? I don't know. But I. I like.
Greg Dunaway [00:11:51]:
I like connecting. I. It's interesting to me because when I first met you at Tilt, I actually didn't know that you were in tourism before that. And I would love it if you explained how someone makes the pivot from tourism to cannabis to land up where you ended up.
Amy Larson [00:12:11]:
So I. So I did. I worked in tourism and restaurants and food and beverage, destination hospitality, pr, Some, you know, lifestyle. We did. I did do some work with, you know, New Belgium and LaMarca Prosecco. But primarily my heart. Like, I grew my career initially in tourism, and it was in about 2014, right after Colorado had, you know, legalized the adult use market was opening. A company approached me, and it was.
Amy Larson [00:12:39]:
It was my 420 tours, and they were one of the, if not the first, consumption tour company, and they were looking to. How do we get involved with, you know, the. How do we get in front of travel writers? How do we get involved with convention of visitors bureaus? How do we get involved with people who are bringing tourists, you know, into the space? How do we get the word out about our product? And so it was a really fun kind of entree for me into cannabis to. To kind of marry up both of both of these things. And. And at that time, it was really interesting because back in 2014, 2015, the Colorado Tourism office wanted nothing to do with cannabis. They wouldn't talk about it. They wouldn't.
Amy Larson [00:13:19]:
They didn't want to even acknowledge that people might be coming to Colorado for cannabis for. For weed, in their words. And it was very much. It was like, okay, guys, like, I've been involved in Colorado tourism at this point for, you know, 15, 16 years. If you think people are only coming to Colorado for cannabis, you have not been doing your jobs. Um, but taking that before I move next, the interesting piece about that is every. Almost every conversation I had with national travel writers, people who wrote for big travel and tourism publications would look at me like I asked them to kill their child. Oh, I don't.
Amy Larson [00:14:03]:
I can't. I don't want to talk about that. I'm like, I'm not at this point asking you to. To get high. I'm not asking you to consume. I am sharing this experience with you. And this is. I think that shows a little bit how far we've come because now, you know, people will talk about it all the time, but 10, 11 years ago, people who were not part of the industry, who didn't understand it, it was still very much taboo to even talk about.
Amy Larson [00:14:28]:
But I say that because then for me, it, it drove a learning experience for me. And that's when I, I come from, you know, pretty conservative family. Not that you know it now to I'm in cannabis. My youngest sister is an award winning, you know, ice hash maker. So 50% of my dad's kids are, are, you know, are in the industry. But at the time, it drove for me an opportunity to understand cannabis, to start to learn about it. And I actually, then I went and worked at a different marketing agency and I really dove in and, and part of my job was to understand how deeply we wanted to play in cannabis. And the more I learned, the more I saw this is a really cool opportunity, this is a really cool plant.
Amy Larson [00:15:13]:
There's a lot of, there's a lot of need for some professionalism in the industry. Remember, this was back in 2014, 2015, and there's also, there's a lot of, there's a lot about this plant out there that people don't know and don't understand. And for me, my kind of light bulb moment was, was actually sitting at a conference in Phoenix in October of like 2015, and I saw Ricky Williams and Kyle Turley and someone else speaking on a panel at this conference, talking about how their coaches and physical therapists and team physicians were pushing everything on them from narcotics to pain pills to go out and drink and all this kind of stuff, when really it was cannabis that was helpful to them and helped them heal and help them relax and help them, help them, you know, overcome the pain that they were dealing with. And, you know, Ricky Williams basically gave up his career in the NFL for cannabis. And, you know, fast forward six years, I got to meet Ricky Williams when we launched the Heisman brand at Tilt. And I got to tell him that story and how he was really part of my light bulb moment of we've been lied to. You know, I'm a product of Dare Generation. Nancy Reagan told us to just say no.
Amy Larson [00:16:25]:
We said no. Some of us said no, some of us said no. But now, now, you know, and that to me was the, We've been lied to hit home so strongly for me that, that in addition, with the opportunity, I actually went back to the CEO at the agency I was at and said, we need to, we need to invest in this. We need to be part of this. And so we actually built out. I built out the cannabis division of that marketing agency and got to work with some really cool brands. Some of them are still around, some of them are not. I got to help launch Poppin Barkley.
Amy Larson [00:17:03]:
I got to help, you know, work with Steven Smith. I learned a lot at that time, and then I went to work at a compliant SaaS in 2019, and then I went to Tilt two years later. So to your point, Greg, I've seen a lot of different facets of the industry from ancillary branding, packaging, marketing, vertical cultivation. I joke with our, with our team because I have a total brown thumb at home. I am only allowed to take care of one Christmas cactus that I inherited from my grandmother when she passed away five or six years ago. That's it. My husband doesn't let me touch anything else in our house because I kill the plants. So I'm really, really thankful for farmers and cultivators and all mad respect to them.
Greg Dunaway [00:17:47]:
Well, that was a wonderful answer. And I think it also, again, yet again, dovetails nicely into my next question, which is, you know, you were part of a business at tilt in the time that you were there. We all know that you've subsequently moved on where you were like, you were in charge or assisted with a number of different marketing campaigns. Right. And God knows that you and I in marketing, we have had had a bunch. I'd love to hear, you know, looking back at your time at tilt, you know, this company that had so many cannabis brands, you know, what were some things that worked well and what were some things that you were like, shit, that one did not hit.
Amy Larson [00:18:26]:
Well. Things that worked well, I think was really when the, when the brands, and I say the brands because, you know, it was this, this brand partner strategy where it was our role and responsibility to help build the sales and drive the sales. And, you know, obviously we were fulfilling the product side of it, but the ownership of the brand really stayed in the hands of the brand. We supported it, but they owned it. So when I say, you know, the. What really was successful was the, the brands who had ambassadors or whose owners, CEOs, founders were in market, were going to the dispensaries, were meeting with consumers, we're going to the events. Whether you're a brand or not. There's nothing more important in this industry than networking and knowing people and being seen and being true and being authentic.
Amy Larson [00:19:17]:
And that's something that I have kind of preached since the early days. And I think it kind of goes back to the, the roots of the industry. Whereas if you trust John, then I know I can trust John kind of thing. So we've, we've kind of built this little insular community. But you have to, you have to show your passion for the product, for your brand, and you have to really be, you have to be part of it. You have to be in the community and you have to be representing it and being authentic. What really, what didn't work in a lot of instances was just here's, you know, slapping a name on, on a package and thinking it was going to succeed. If you don't have the marketing, the brand, the push, the power, the people behind it, it's not going to succeed.
Amy Larson [00:20:04]:
And, you know, one campaign, and it actually wasn't even a campaign Greg and I, but I'll share this as like a failure. We were juggling, you know, a million different things and we were trying to get ads out ahead for 420. And I was in the process of transitioning my team and we were in the process of consolidating SKUs as you know, you can't, you know, release your 420 ads too soon because your competitors will then see them and then undercut you. And you can't do it too late because you want to make sure you get to the consumers in time so they make their shopping decisions. So there's this like, sweet spot and I take full ownership of this. We. And it had gone through me like multiple layers of eyes. But we dropped, you know, we created, you know, the ads to go out, the messages to go out.
Amy Larson [00:20:48]:
And rather than saying for we, we dropped them on 4:19. And it was like late night or late afternoon 4:19. So people could make plans for 4:20. And I think, I don't remember exactly what it was, but I think it said today only. Or it said one day only. Or like whatever it was, it was not clear. Like it should have said 420 only. Like only.
Amy Larson [00:21:12]:
And. And it was just that little tweak of words that then, you know, it was. We had a great 419 that, that day because you had to honor it. But, you know, and it's. And I just, I just, I share that because even as many years as we've spent doing this, everybody, everybody still makes mistakes. We're all still human.
Greg Dunaway [00:21:31]:
Oh, God. Like, I, I think, I think that cracks me up. Only in cannabis could it be like, it's not clear if it's 419 or 420.
Amy Larson [00:21:38]:
I know, right?
Greg Dunaway [00:21:40]:
Oh, man. So the the one that cracked me up and I think I shared this with the other day was we were trying to come up with a really new idea for us that this completely fell on its face. We were going to say, hey, let's do a freshness guarantee. Like all right, consumers out there, we'll get the product to you guys in a timely manner. And you know, if, if it's, if it's aged out, it goes into a, you know, a cult approved discount goes out the door or whatever. And we were like, this is great. Anytime you see Colt on the shelves, they'll know that it's fresh. And the dispensaries were just staring at us blank eyed being like, now that sounds like work.
Greg Dunaway [00:22:15]:
Total failure on my end. They had zero interest.
Amy Larson [00:22:18]:
But I had one other instance that was, you know, it kind of ties back to our earlier conversation about you know, brand and knowing who your brand is and knowing who your customer like what? Back when I was at the marketing agency we were launching, we were working this product that was an all natural terpene based cannabis smoke odor specific product that, that eliminated can the smell of cannabis smoke. And it was, you know, their parent company did like industrial odor elimination odor control and they rolled out this consumer product and they had candles and they had spray. Quite frankly it smelled awesome. It was amazing. But it was very stylized to soccer moms. However, soccer moms were not really the ones smoking joints or smoking a lot of flour. And so we had to kind of dovetail, we had to kind of die, you know, split their, their efforts a little bit because yes, the soccer moms are gonna, they, you know, they don't want to smell like weed. But also they're also not the ones that are really going to be smoking joints and smell like cannabis smoke.
Amy Larson [00:23:24]:
It didn't work on vapes. The vape smell doesn't really stick around. So we had to have this kind of come to Jesus of okay, this may be who your target consumer is, but this is who's actually going to buy and use this product. And so I, and I share that as a, you have to understand, make sure you're designing your brand for who your intended consumer is.
Greg Dunaway [00:23:46]:
Yeah, that's, that's so spot on. And it's, it's nice that you guys had at least the wherewithal to be like shit, we need to pivot, right? Like it's never fun to go tell someone like hey, this isn't working, we're going to have to pivot.
Amy Larson [00:23:58]:
But we have to think about, yeah.
Greg Dunaway [00:23:59]:
Yeah, I Had one last thing that occurred to me about Tilt. Do you think that's still a viable business model or do you think that MSOs are still going to pursue, you know, either through their own development, more brands or acquiring brands and putting them into these sort of companies? Do you think it's still out, there's still a potential for that?
Amy Larson [00:24:20]:
I do think there is because I think there's a lot of efficiency in building on an existing brand, a successful brand like old Pal, like Black Buddha, Cannabis, like Heisman, those brands that have actual weight and value and consumer buy in behind them. There's a lot of value to take advantage of that brand equity that those brands have already built rather than building your own, building out branding even. I mean packaging, packaging takes forever and you know, trying to plant, you know, yet another skew on the market when you can say hey, let's partner and, and a lot of those relationships and Greg, I'm sure, you know, they're, they're white labeled, right? So it's not that, you know, wanna has a license in every market. It's Tilt has a license. Tilt is growing, manufacturing unique strains to go into these products. And I have seen, I know Tilt kind of Tilt has publicly said, you know, they've pivoted away from their plant touching business and so or are currently pivoting away from their plant touching business. But I know, you know, the cannabis has leaned into that, leaned into that a couple of years ago and I know they picked up a few of the brands that Tilt eventually. You know, I don't mean the single that they walked away from it and I don't divested, they just, they divested, they, they, they split, they ended the relationship with.
Amy Larson [00:25:42]:
And I know that the, that the cannabis is now carrying a lot of those brands and I think, I think because of the efficiency that comes with that and the ability to go to market a lot faster with a known brand, I still think there's a lot of viability in that approach.
Greg Dunaway [00:25:57]:
Yeah, and it's, it's really interesting. One of the things that really blows my mind is, you know, all these consumers that are out there, you can see the brand power that somebody has as they move from state to state. One of the funnier things to me is consumers aren't usually aware of like well wait a minute, I had, you know, I'm just going to pick something ran. I had Jeters in California and it was fucking fire. I've had it in Arizona and it sucks. I am not saying that by the way. Jeters I picked you at random because you're massive. But that white labeling process that you talked about, it is not a transparent part of our industry.
Greg Dunaway [00:26:29]:
And if you don't get those sops right and transferred from state to state, you are kind of fucked. No matter how good your brand is.
Amy Larson [00:26:36]:
Yeah, yeah, you are. You're. You have to. I think that underscores the. The aligning with partners who share your same values. Right. It's making sure you've got customers. You know, whether you're the operator or you're the brand, those brand values have to align.
Amy Larson [00:26:49]:
And I think that whether it's, you know, one of these white labeling, brand partner partnerships, Greg, or even if it's just you're a brand and you want to get your product into a dispensary, understanding the business values and making sure they align, you know, making sure people get paid, making sure, you know, their bud tenders aren't jerks when you walk in the door. Making sure that they acknowledge people and take the time to talk to people who look like me walking into a dispensary. And I've done this for 10 years. I have a really good handle on what I'm looking for when I'm walking in, but it can still be overwhelming sometimes. And, and I think. And on the opposite side, you know, we talked a little bit the other day, Greg, about, you know, having brand values and making sure that those carry through your entire organization because you can have a really fire brand, amazing packaging, it's flying off the shelves. But if your sales guy's an asshole, if your sales guy doesn't follow up, if my orders are late or whatever, like eventually your brand values are not. Aren't lining my pockets, and I can't.
Amy Larson [00:27:55]:
And I can't waste any more time on that.
Greg Dunaway [00:27:57]:
So it always.
Amy Larson [00:28:01]:
To make, but making sure that your brands are aligned, I think is a really critical point. We have to be a little. I say this, you know, opportunistically, but we have to be a little less. I'm sorry, I say this optimistically. We have to be a little less opportunistic and a little more realistic and strategic.
Greg Dunaway [00:28:19]:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think, and I think doing the little things well on the back end to your point goes a long way. I can put out all the art I want and everyone can be like, that's cool. But if I'm not delivering, you know, my main product, which is cannabis, to a dispensary in a timely manner at a, At a price that makes sense. And what am I doing Right.
Amy Larson [00:28:37]:
Right.
Greg Dunaway [00:28:38]:
I want to touch on something which I think is super cool. Talk to me about your advocacy, you know, hashtag canam. You know, all of the things that you do that are not the, you know, total pro that I know on the business side who's killing. Who's killed it in different verticals in cannabis. There's another side to you that I definitely want people to know about. We talk a little bit about that for us.
Amy Larson [00:29:01]:
Sure. So. So again, honestly, kind of going back to that aha moment that I had about 10 years ago, that was also about the time I got really involved with ncia, The National Cannabis Industry association was involved with them for a long time. I actually now sit on their board and I. And the reason I tie that kind of together with the cannon, mom, is that there's so much destigmatizing that we still need to do with this plant. And look, I am. I am clearly a white, suburban, literal soccer mom. My daughter played soccer for 12 years.
Amy Larson [00:29:36]:
She just. She just stopped. Now she's playing flag football. But I. Which is. Which is amazing. But I am also married to a police officer. So when you want to talk about a dichotomy and a non traditional, like, face in this industry, I say I take that back.
Amy Larson [00:29:56]:
And what people outside of this industry don't expect a fate. Someone in this industry to be. I kind of embody it. And look, if it's okay for, you know, my friends to walk around, talk about drinking margaritas or go on wine walks or I had half a bottle of wine on, you know, a night to unwind, why is it not okay to talk about plants and, you know, living in Colorado? I've lived in Colorado for 25 years. I live in Douglas County. Douglas county, still a dry county. I have to cross the county line to go to a dispensary, which I only say hysterically because then they get my tax dollars, right? But there, no, there's no medical, there's no growing, there's no nothing in Douglas County. And so what's interesting is as soon as I make it okay to talk about it, it's okay to talk about it.
Amy Larson [00:30:41]:
There were a bunch of us moms, I don't know, I think our daughters were taking homecoming pictures. And we were standing there talking about it. And one of the moms, who I'd known for a long time said something to me about cannabis. And one of the other moms is like, wait, you work in cannabis? I'm like, yeah, I do. And she's like, so does my husband. And I'm like, why are we whispering? You know, so there's, there's a, there's small things and, and big things that we do, you know, advocating for, you know, reform at the legal level, for rescheduling, descheduling, you know, making sure that people are, are aware of the hamstrings that this industry is facing, as well as just being the face down the street of someone who works in cannabis, uses cannabis, who's also married to a police officer. We can all, we can all, you know, live together. We can all.
Amy Larson [00:31:29]:
Cannabis is not this big bad danger that we were told it was. It's a plant. It's a God given plant. It was put here to heal us and it was put here for us to use. And why, why have we demonized it so bad? So that's, you know, not a solid, like tactical answer for you, Greg, but that's kind of the approach I take in, in, you know, just everywhere I go.
Greg Dunaway [00:31:54]:
No, I love it. I love it. I, I have to ask one question. Does your husband catch any on the force for you being in cannabis?
Amy Larson [00:32:02]:
No. They actually, for a long time I was referred to as the drug czar. And, and it's, they, they get like. And I just kind of tell my guys I'm on the wrong side of the industry. I, I came into this too late. Like, there's no drugs. Our money, I, you know, that's not what it is.
Greg Dunaway [00:32:22]:
Long gone, baby.
Amy Larson [00:32:23]:
It's long gone. Nobody's got the drug czar money. But no, it's, it's fun. They, you know, no, it's, he doesn't get a lot of shit. It's just more fun, fun ribbing.
Greg Dunaway [00:32:33]:
So that's great. That, how, how times have changed. That's amazing.
Amy Larson [00:32:37]:
It is. Well, and it's funny because, you know, when he was an officer, when Colorado, you know, switched, you know, turned up, the legal market opened up and he's like, the weirdest, you know, was early January. He's like the weirdest stop he ever had was pulling someone over and having to give him his drugs back because he could legally have them.
Greg Dunaway [00:32:56]:
I have seen these and these are yours. And now I'm returning to you.
Amy Larson [00:32:58]:
I've seen these. These are within the legal limit. You can have them back, right?
Greg Dunaway [00:33:03]:
Amy, I have another. I have a couple more questions for you. You've been very generous with your time. You know, one of the interesting things about you is that you have been able to walk into many different boardrooms and many different high level executive areas and also interact with those like you talked about, those guys who might be the smaller guys own a brand. And now at RX Green, you're yet again interacting kind of with, almost back in the dirt again. Right. And I guess there, is there any through line that you see about who is going to be successful as a leader in this business and who you look at and you're just like, oh God, you know that, that kind of. What is that through line for you?
Amy Larson [00:33:40]:
Yeah, for me. And I've had the, I've had the benefit of working with a lot of really good bosses and leaders over, you know, the years of my career. I've had a handful of ones who I, you know, who we won't talk about. But I think that what I see, whether you're a grower, whether you're a leader, where I look for authenticity, I look for transparency and I look for accountability. As a leader myself, if something goes wrong on my team, if my team makes a mistake, if something goes, you know, unless they're, you know, committing a crime or somebody dies, if a mistake is made, that's, that's on me. Right. I own that because that's my team, that's my responsibility. I expect that type of accountability from people that I work for.
Amy Larson [00:34:30]:
I expect that from and from people that I work with. And I think people who have that kind of authentic, transparent but also very kind of driven, like this is what we're aiming for, this is what we're trying to get to and taking almost, I don't want to say a non emotional perspective on it because everything is, you know, everything is emotional and I think we have to be passionate about this plant to be successful in this industry. But I think taking a very true, operational, realistic focus and applying that to, and just kind of melding, melding that together, you can be passionate, but you also have to be realistic. Yeah, passionate and pragmatic at the same time, but leading with authenticity, leading with transparency, leading with accountability. And I think that is, that is what I look for. I mean Gary, probably like you, I've been sold the oh, we're going to have an exit and you're going to get rich. And you know, at all of the places I've worked for, it's never happened. So you know, I'm not counting on can, you know, a windfall anywhere in cannabis.
Amy Larson [00:35:39]:
But you know, we do it for the love of the plant. And quite honestly for me, even more than that, it's the people, it's the people in this industry and people who, who you can count on. And I think there are a lot of people you can count on, there's a lot of people you can't. But you just have to surround yourselves by the, with the people who you can. And, and I always say we have to continue to lift up the good people.
Greg Dunaway [00:36:02]:
Yeah.
Amy Larson [00:36:03]:
And, and surround ourselves with them.
Greg Dunaway [00:36:05]:
Oh, that is very well said.
Amy Larson [00:36:06]:
Because ultimately the bad ones are going to, you know, whether they know it or not, are going to start to get exited. And you and I talked about that the other day too. It's, you know, there are, there is, there's an unwritten blacklist out there.
Greg Dunaway [00:36:20]:
Oh yeah. And once you're, once you're, once you're on it in cannabis especially, you know, word gets around. We all talk. I was talking to someone just the other day about somebody I did not enjoy doing business with. My last one for you, Amy, is one of my favorite questions. Given how much experience you've had in cannabis and experiences, what's that one thing that you, that you kind of wish you had known earlier? And it doesn't necessarily have to be a negative or a positive. Positive about our industry. You know, you've been so high level, like what, what stands out to you? Do you like, you know, shit, I wish I would have known that.
Amy Larson [00:36:57]:
I wish I would have known it was going to be this hard, this long. And I say that, you know, coming from a very blessed position in this industry and I acknowledge that. But I think, I think I, and I say this encouragingly. If you're, if you are not afraid of hard, hard work, if you're not afraid of wearing 14 hats, if you're not, you know, if you are very passionate about the plant and what you're trying to do and willing to work hard, this is the place to be. If you're looking to come in and make a quick buck or, you know, get out or, you know, have a quick exit, this is not where you need to be. I mean, I, I joke, you know, Greg, I, I started in marketing just, you know, at our experience. I started in marketing, I took over the sales team. I know now I now know more about supply chain and production capacity and inventory management and all of the things than I ever thought I would ever have to do when I got my degree in journalism 100 years ago.
Amy Larson [00:37:57]:
And knowing that, you know, the, the stressors and the challenges and the new positions that were put in, they're all just feeding us for whatever our next step is. And everything I've learned As much as there are days that I want to pull, you know, you know, pull my hair out, it's all building to something. And I think we just all have to. And I don't know if that really answers your question, Greg, but I think had I known it was going to be this hard 10 years ago, I might have, I'm, I might have rethought it, but I'm really glad I didn't because of the relationships I've made, the experience that I've had. And quite frankly, if I've done any bit of good helping to destabilize, stigmatize this plant and help to move things forward, then it was worth it.
Greg Dunaway [00:38:44]:
Well, I have no doubt that you definitely have. Your, your reputation as a professional is well known throughout the industry. And I think, I think honestly the, the key thing to your point of everything that you said is I am so clear with people about, you know, hey, should I get in this space? And I'm like, sit down and let's really discuss that.
Amy Larson [00:39:04]:
Yeah.
Greg Dunaway [00:39:04]:
You know, because there is, there is a world where you can, like my favorite thing you've ever said is if you're going to go out and hire someone who's leaving cannabis, and I held no ill will towards people who leave cannabis at this point. It's brutal. You're getting an all star, you're getting someone who's worn 14 hats, they've been punched in the face a hundred times, you know, and I just, I love the, I love your sentiment there that like, you know, it's really fucking hard. But you're glad you did it.
Amy Larson [00:39:29]:
No, I am. And just to, you know, I know we're kind of, of trying the knot here, but you know, I have, especially in marketing. Marketing in cannabis right now is really hard. Senior level marketing positions are very few and far between at, at this point in the industry. And every time I talk to, you know, another friend, another colleague who is looking to get out or who, you know, wasn't really given the choice but to, you know, they, they lost their position and they're interviewing outside of the industry and you can't hardly get past the gatekeepers because they see cannabis and they think and they blow it off and they think, oh, either you're a stoner or you were just having fun. You're wasting time. When really, Greg, back to our earlier comments. All the success that we've had as marketers in this space has been done with both hands tied behind our back and honestly, somebody hitting us over the head half the time, we're walking down.
Amy Larson [00:40:19]:
We're walking down the street. So any success you've had has been done, despite those restrictions, without access to all of the other tools that, you know, traditional marketers have in traditional industries. So my success should mean a lot more to you, not less.
Greg Dunaway [00:40:36]:
I think that that is where we're going to leave it. Amy Larson, you are the best. I so appreciate your time. The time flew by. And thank you again for appearing on, on the podcast. And I look forward to catching up with you on our little monthly, monthly month. We won't call them bitch sessions, we'll just call them friend sessions.
Amy Larson [00:40:53]:
Yes. Friend friendly venting.
Greg Dunaway [00:40:55]:
That's right. Awesome. Thank you, Amy.
Amy Larson [00:40:57]:
Thank you. No, thank you so much, Greg. I really appreciate it. It was a blast this morning.
Greg Dunaway [00:41:02]:
And we're done.
Amy Larson [00:41:03]:
Yay.
Greg Dunaway [00:41:04]:
Yay. And now Chris tells us he gives us a five star review, a four star review, a three star review, or he says get the fuck out to both. I'll take it.
Amy Larson [00:41:21]:
I'll take it.