Grazing Grass Podcast : Sharing Stories of Regenerative Ag

Join us for an engaging conversation with Andy Youngblood of Youngblood Farm in Southwest Arkansas as he shares his transformative journey in farming. From growing up in a small town focused on beef cattle and poultry operations to earning an ag business degree and working at Tyson Foods, Andy's experiences with various livestock and his shift to regenerative grazing practices offer invaluable insights. Discover how his and Cal's paths crossed 25 years ago, adding a rich backdrop to their discussion about silvopasture management and the evolution of his farm.

Explore the transition from conventional farming to regenerative agriculture as Andy recounts a pivotal moment in 2006 that prompted a reevaluation of their farming practices. Influenced by Joel Salatin's "Salad Bar Beef" and a friend's rotational grazing techniques, Andy and his family embraced grass farming and diversified their livestock operations. Despite initial challenges, including managing broiler houses they no longer believed in, they fully committed to sustainable agriculture, ultimately selling their conventional farming assets by 2022.

Listen in as Andy discusses his fascination with different cattle breeds, particularly the Red Devon and South Poll breeds, and the importance of temperament and docility in cattle management. Learn about the diverse experiences of running a multi-species farm, including raising hogs, goats, and sheep, and the challenges of fencing and maintaining these animals. The episode also covers the benefits of silvopasture and agroforestry practices, and Andy shares essential tips for new farmers and grazers, emphasizing valuable resources and practical tools for successful land stewardship.

Links Mentioned in the Episode:
Youngblood Farm

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What is Grazing Grass Podcast : Sharing Stories of Regenerative Ag?

The Grazing Grass Podcast features insights and stories of regenerative farming, specifically emphasizing grass-based livestock management. Our mission is to foster a community where grass farmers can share knowledge and experiences with one another. We delve into their transition to these practices, explore the ins and outs of their operations, and then move into the "Over Grazing" segment, which addresses specific challenges and learning opportunities. The episode rounds off with the "Famous Four" questions, designed to extract valuable wisdom and advice. Join us to gain practical tips and inspiration from the pioneers of regenerative grass farming.

This is the podcast for you if you are trying to answer: What are regenerative farm practices? How to be grassfed? How do I graze other species of livestock? What's are ways to improve pasture and lower costs? What to sell direct to the consumer?

Welcome to the Grazing
Grass Podcast Episode 124.

Andy: You control the farm or
ranch, don't let it control you.

Cal: you're listening to the Grazing Grass
Podcast, sharing information and stories

of grass based livestock production
utilizing regenerative practices.

I'm your host, Cal Hardage.

You're growing more than grass.

You're growing a healthier
ecosystem to help your cattle

thrive in their environment.

You're growing your livelihood by
increasing your carrying capacity

and reducing your operating costs.

You're growing stronger communities
and a legacy to last generations.

The grazing management
decisions you make today.

impact everything from the soil beneath
your feet to the community all around you.

That's why the Noble Research
Institute created their Essentials

of Regenerative Grazing course to
teach ranchers like you easy to follow

techniques to quickly assess your forage
production and infrastructure capacity.

In order to begin
grazing more efficiently.

Together, they can help you grow
not only a healthier operation,

but a legacy that lasts.

Learn more on their website at noble.

org slash grazing.

It's n o b l e dot org
forward slash grazing.

On today's episode, we have Andy
Youngblood of Youngblood farm

located in lower Arkansas LA.

He's in Southwest Arkansas and we
have a wonderful conversation about

his journey to where he is now.

And we talk a lot about cattle's
cattle breeds, then he also

had goats and sheep for a time.

So we talk about that.

And then for the overgrazing section,
We dive into silvopasture and

how he's getting his silvopasture
and how he's managing it.

For the bonus segment.

If you are grazing grass
insider, the bonus segment

will be available to you soon.

Be sure and listen to 10 seconds
about the podcast in just a moment.

I have more news about that.

But for the bonus segment, we're
going to talk about raw milk.

He does have a milk cow or two.

So we'll talk about that a
little bit on the bonus segment

over on grazing grass insiders.

It's a really good episode.

Andy and my path crossed
about 25 years ago.

So it's very interesting catching up with
them and seeing what's happening there.

10 seconds about the podcast.

First for the podcast, let's
do a review and remember.

We love five star reviews
and positive comments.

This review comes from Broken
Oak Farm says excellent resource.

The grazing grass podcast is
a wonderful resource for those

interested in regenerative farming.

Cal does a wonderful job of
getting granular with each

guest and their operation.

I enjoy Cal style of interviewing.

And he does a wonderful job of
disseminating information that is wide

ranging and beneficial to the farmer.

Thank you Broken Oak Farm.

You were much too kind with those words.

But I appreciate it.

Just a moment ago.

I mentioned about the
grazing grass insiders.

That is available and there's
some perks to having it.

And I'm working through trying to make
that more beneficial, but one of the perks

is the grazing grass insider podcast which
includes bonus segments from each episode.

However I noticed yesterday when
I was working on some stuff, that

podcast is not working correctly.

So I apologize the grazing grass insiders.

I'm working on that.

Hopefully get it back up within the week.

So you can get back access
to those bonus segments.

I apologize for that.

I should have checked sooner.

One more thing about the podcast.

We had some issues with
the video for this week.

If you're watching on YouTube video,
won't be near as fascinating as usual.

I apologize.

But I think we got the
audio version going good.

Cal: Well enough of that.

Let's talk to Andy.

Andy, we welcome you to
the Grazing Grass podcast.

We're excited you're here today.

Andy: Well, Thank you, Cal.

It's it's wonderful to be here,
and I appreciate the invite.

Cal: Andy, to get started, can
you tell us a little bit about

yourself and your operation?

Andy: Yeah, I don't know if I
can tell you a little bit, but

it's been quite a journey, but
I'll do my best to keep it short.

But I do have to go back a ways
actually back to about well, I guess

about 87 when I graduated high school.

So, Grew up in a small town of
Grannis, Arkansas, which is southwest,

Arkansas and this area is a lot of
beef cows and poultry operations,

and that's about all there is here.

Well, Headed to college in 87, the fall
of 87, with the mindset of which, a

very conventional mindset, and what a
lot of folks do and that go to school

for ag related purposes in this area
was How to best work for Tyson Foods

or Pilgrim's Pride, get that job and
maybe do a little farming on the side.

Actually started college with becoming a
veterinarian in mind, but that University

chem took that out of my system.

So settled in with an ag business degree,
graduated in 91 got married August 3rd, 91

graduated August 9th and went to work for
Tyson Foods in North Arkansas August 12th.

So it was a pretty busy couple

weeks.

We lived there for a year.

Both of us are from this area.

Had an opportunity with
Tyson to come back here.

That's about all there is in Grannis.

We don't have a stoplight or a stop sign
even but there's a Tyson plant there.

But I actually came back to work
with the Tyson's Pork Group.

Worked for them for six years after
having worked at a feed mill for one

year in the north of Harrison Arkansas.

Rocked along for a little while till 2003.

And we were farming a little bit
so to speak, very conventionally.

We had fenced a property and got
what few cows I had off of the range.

We called it.

Dad leased Weyerhaeuser Timber Company.

And we had he had cattle on
actually several thousand acres

of range land, brush land.

But we gathered the few cows we had put
'em behind fence and started trying to

raise 'em on grass, not grass farming.

We were still conventionally
farming at that time.

2003 rolled around.

And Tyson was doing an expansion
with our poultry in the area.

So Tracy and I looked at that
as a way to to get back to the

farm in building broiler houses.

So, in 2003, 2004, we built three
conventional broiler houses.

She was a public school teacher
in the Wickes school system.

We both came home in 2004.

She left the school system, we
began homeschooling the kids.

I say we, I guess it was her
and the mouse in her pocket.

But Started homeschooling the kids
and I left Tyson Foods as a my

last tour was I serviced hen farms.

Was trying to farm at that time and
the farm was just it was just stagnant.

It was just conventional.

It was like everyone else is around.

Nothing amazing happening, the
soil, I still had to use some

vaccine, had to spray some pastures
and things at that time and a lot

of the conventional practices.

In 2000, I think it was about
2006, Tracy's dad was diagnosed

with pancreatic cancer and that
caused us to check a lot of things.

And she actually started researching
her family line and Cal liter, literally

everyone in that line had died of cancer.

Uh, So it freaked us out a little bit.

You can 'cause or at least for
her and our two children, we

had our son was born in 95.

Our daughter was born in 2000.

Well, We started looking at things where
you can't change your genetics, right?

But so what can we change?

We can change what we eat and
how we, how it's produced.

And We started researching our food system
and found out it wasn't what we had been

led to believe and what we thought it was.

A friend up the road who about
30, about 35 miles from me.

He had been doing a little rotational
grazing, and he introduced me to

Joel Salatin's book, Salad Bar Beef.

And That was probably the first book I
read as far as regenerative agriculture.

And man, it just was like
a light switch came on.

So we made the decision to start
quote unquote grass farming.

Which I just think that was a new
concept because we'd, I'd had cows

or been around cows all my life.

But We kinda jumped off the
deep end when we first started.

We had some beef cows um, but we
added to that a milk cow that we

were gonna drink raw milk from.

A couple of grazing hogs, a
breeding pair of large blacks.

sheep, goats and a few years later we
actually added some honeybees to the deal.

There was no one that I knew around close
anyway that was selling grass fed beef,

but as we looked into the model realized
that might be an opportunity as well.

Not only could we feed ourselves,
but we could provide good beef, good

clean beef for other folks as well.

Found a gentleman in North
Arkansas about four hours away

was the closest one that I found.

And Got a a recycled Red
Angus Pharaoh Bull from him.

And said, well, All I had was
my conventional range cows

that had a lot of ear on them.

And talked to him about that and
he was actually using Beefmaster.

to cross with this red angus.

So, so, well, I Have no other advice.

So we're going to go that route right now.

Okay.

So, So we found a farm in Texas Temple,
Texas, I believe it was, that was selling

beef masters got to the farm and he had
some heifers for sale and didn't know the

need for a smaller frame framed animal
at that time, but it turned out to be a

blessing when we got there that He said,
man, all of my big heifers are gone.

He said, they've been picked through.

They're already gone.

So all I have is these
smaller frame heifers here.

So, And they were bred heifers.

So we bought, we're able to buy 17 bred
beef master heifers, put them with that

Red Angus bull after they had calved.

And that's where our
Jersey our journey began.

We do have done some different breeds
and do a different breed now, even.

I see that would have been that was
2007 when all of that was taking place,

Cal: At that time, Andy, were you still
managing the, those broiler houses for

Andy: Yeah, we yeah, but for quite a
while after that, but I felt a little

hypocritical because I didn't follow
that model anymore, didn't believe in

that model, but we had a Pretty hefty
note that had to be paid off because

I wasn't going to walk away from that.

As a matter of fact we kept them
from we got our first flock in 2004.

We're finally able to We'd wanted
to sell the broiler houses for quite

some time, but we did what we thought
good broiler producers do and we

built them right behind our home
that we, my father in law had built.

We raised our kids in.

And if it wasn't for a thin patch of
trees, you could see them very well.

So, We didn't want to have someone
else raising chickens in our backyard.

So, in in 2022, actually, we finally had
peace about selling our home, and we sold

our home and the three broiler houses.

So, that that was the last
piece or leg of what I would

call our conventional farming.

Cal: And Andy, Just jump in real quick.

I completely understand that.

Andy and I met a number of years ago.

in the late 90s and I'm not
sure when you came up here if we

had chicken houses at the time.

We were either in the process of building
them or we built them shortly after

that time and we had four chicken houses
and the dairy going and I struggle

with that with the chicken houses.

Now I will say it was amazing that
chicken litter could make rocks grow

grass so it just, we spread it on
all the land here and our pastures

improved greatly because of it.

And then because of, really it
became a health issue, my parents

were running chicken houses that
got hard for them and they sold out.

And they sold the farm.

Now, luckily for us, we built the
chicken houses about three quarters

of a mile away from my house, and a
couple miles from my parents house.

So we weren't tied to them as closely
as you were And it turned out we had

an opportunity to buy those chicken
houses back a few years later, and we

store hay

Andy: Yeah They're great for that.

Cal: do,

Yes, they, they work out great for that,
but I understand that feeling you're

a little bit hypocritical there when
you're trying to do this regenerative

stuff, and yet you've got all these
chickens in this commercial house growing

them, but at the same time we have
to make a living so that the farm is

Andy: Right,

Cal: so, and that's a hard one,
it's a hard one for me, so I can

see how it can be hard for you as

well.

Andy: My daughter , my, my service
man knew it, but she had a little

flock of hens down the road.

And we were careful we, or tried to be
careful about biosecurity because that was

a big thing with the integrators, that we
had separate boots and she, she actually

used a different door to the house.

But We always wanted to have hens
of our own not just our daughters.

And now we do now.

We've got we've got several laying hands.

Yeah,

Cal: to

get rid of when we put
in those chicken houses.

I had to, I took them to my grandpa
and gave it to him, gave them to

Andy: Yep.

Yep.

Yeah, they frown upon that.

Cal: Oh, yeah.

So tell us a little bit you It's a
health scare really got you into this.

Tracy's dad going through his
cancer battle and I hear that a

Andy: Yeah.

Cal: in that health reasons bring
people or they start researching

more into their diet, into their
food sources, and they end up saying,

hey, we've got to do something

about it, and regenerative.

So so you started thinking, we
got to do something, and you

got those cows and heifers.

Tell us a little bit more, I say
cows and heifers, that Pharo bull,

and you got some beefmaster heifers.

Tell us a little bit more about
the journey going there as you

incorporated those practices into

Andy: Okay.

Yeah we call that our when we
had when our my late father in

law was diagnosed with pancreatic
cancer and all the research that

came from that or after that.

We call that our paradigm shift.

So, so, so we started looking at things
non conventionally, I guess we'll call it.

Yeah we started with
the Beefmaster Heifers.

Still have some of that blood in my
herd and, or at a Red Angus bull.

In 2008, I believe it was, I had
subscribed to the Stockman Grass

Farmer, Acres, Mother Earth News.

And this name kept coming up Gerald Fry.

And he talked a lot about
minerals and different things.

And I started researching him a
little bit, and lo and behold,

he lived in Arkansas as well.

Well, I called him up and Love Mr.

Gerald.

He was a great man.

But Wanted to talk to him about
minerals, and he said, Well,

you just need to come see me.

And I think that's actually when
I found out he lived in Arkansas,

a little town called Rosebud.

So we made, Tracy and I,
made the journey there.

Coming from the conventional side, and
I hope I don't I'm not known to be real

politically correct, and I apologize
for that, but I don't mean to ruffle any

feathers, but coming from the conventional
side, a lot of people that have

information aren't terribly willing to
share it, even on the conventional side.

So, We met Mr.

Gerald At the feed mill where he bought
his ingredients for minerals, and I

suppose that we would meet him, we'd go
into the feed mill, he'd say, you need

this, and that, I'll see you later.

We talked in the parking lot for
an hour probably, and he finally

said, let's go look at some cows.

Bought us lunch we looked at
cows, he talked a lot about his

thoughts and the system in general.

At the end of the day, we went
back to the mill and he said,

Okay, you need this, and this.

He invited us to Mr.

Gerald he was a very big
proponent of Red Devon.

There were two breeds we were looking
at the time when we were looking

to start selling grass fed beef
which were Red Devon and South Poll.

Mr.

Gerald invited me to a And I
had investigated the South Poll

a little more and had actually
thought I'd found some bulls.

He invited us to the Red Devon
Conference the following year which

it was almost a year away before
this conference was taking place.

So, Get to the Devon Conference,
and my son and I were the

only ones able to go to that.

We probably had chickens, and that
was the one thing with the chickens.

Somebody had to be there.

It wasn't, the work wasn't hard.

It was nasty work, but it wasn't
hard, but they were very confining.

Someone had to be around.

So Ben and I went to the conference Well,
lo and behold, Teddy Gentry, the developer

of the South Poll breed, was there at
the Devon conference giving a speech

or a talk about his tenderness testing.

Got to meet him, talked to him between
sessions quite a bit, and was looking

more at the South Poll breed, and he
said, if you'll come to my farm in Fort

Payne, I'll sell you a couple good bulls.

So the next year, early 2010,
Tracy and I loaded up, made

a little vacation out of it.

We went to his farm, picked out
two bulls that they brought to the

South Poll field day, which was in
Texas the following, or that fall.

But at that Devon conference, I met
what became our, some of our closest

friends who were Devon breeders.

So anyway, got to the South Poll
Bulls, kept them only a couple years,

and ended up selling them and getting
going the Devon route, Red Devon

route our friends, who we later
opened a brick and mortar meat market.

In 21, however we went back with South
Poll we found some bred cows and a

bull, and, we have a lot, I actually
had a Meshona in there for in 2015,

I'm a, used a Meshona bull, and have a
lot of half bloods and quarter bloods,

females still in the herd from him and
a lot of the Devon influence as well.

Cal: You know

I Am fascinated by breeds.

the Red Devons, I find fascinating, I've
read on them, and they sound like In fact,

at some point I would like to get some.

Now, currently I'm running South
Poll Bulls on some South Poll

cows and some Corriente cows.

One thing that's interesting there,
you went away from South Poll to Devons

and then you came back to South Polls.

Was that transition mainly because
of your friend's influence or was

there some other things you were
looking for in that transition?

Andy: I think maybe yes on both counts.

When we were looking at, as I mentioned
earlier, when we started looking to sell

grass fed beef, grass fed and finished
beef the two, those were the two breeds we

were looking at, Red Devon and South Poll.

There weren't any Red Devon breeders
around that I could find until we met

our friends who happened to be, and
they're only an hour and a half from us,

but I didn't know of them prior to that.

So we, we had those for, I guess,
from bought our first ones from

them in 2011 and then, so ten years.

The problem I found in Red Devon are
great cattle, and there used to be

large herds of them in the deep south.

But most all of that production
now is in a different climate in

the northeast or the north, which
provides a thicker, heavier hair coat.

That was the issue we had with
the Red Devons and is their

hair and their heat tolerance.

I'm in South Arkansas.

We absolutely.

They are great cattle,
gourmet beef on grass.

Just needed a more slick headed animal.

Cal: Oh

Andy: And that's what Teddy Gentry
bred the South Poll, you know that,

but that's what Teddy Gentry bred
the South Poll for was raised to

produce beef in the Southeast.

Yeah,

Cal: Yeah.

Yeah, with that slick coat and stuff.

Now, also in addition to the
Devon and South Poll, you

mentioned Marshon, Marshonas.

You used the Marshona
Bull for a little while.

How, tell us about his heifers that
you raised out of those crossings.

How did they perform?

How did they look?

And I'm saying this as someone who
I've heard about Marcona, Marconas,

and I've seen some pictures, but
I've yet to meet one in person.

Andy: breed was Is African.

And my, our little bull
actually came out of old Mexico.

We drove about eight hours south and the
guy, I don't know how many hours north he

drove to meet us but came out of Mexico.

He was black hided, but and I would liken
him to a small frame, fine boned Brangus.

They, they have that look about them.

Very heat tolerant even
though they were black.

And they can be red.

I've actually seen a couple bulls
that were red and white spotted

with very little white, mostly red
but I think the main color of them

is black as far as what I've seen.

Hard to describe Johan Zietzman in his
book Man, Cattle, and Veil, he describes

it as they have an affinity for man.

Or they, through the generations,
they have developed an affinity

for man because in Africa they
depend on man for their survival

from lions and crocodiles and such.

But it's hard, what's hard to explain to
me is the way that bull would look at you.

It was just a different look and our
bull wasn't aggressive so to speak.

But I did find a different
temperament in a lot of the offspring.

And we kept a lot.

We, in 16 he calved, we calved a lot
of he got a lot of heifers out of him.

Went through I won't
tolerate bad temperament.

I grew up with range cattle.

A, and I used to enjoy
that, but I'm getting older.

A, and I don't heal as quickly or
move as quickly anymore, so I don't.

So we culled pretty hard and,
but we were able to keep several

half blood Mashona females.

That, that have made excellent mamas.

They do well here in the south.

Insects, heat temperament was probably
if I were to say a reason that we

went away from them, they would,
I would probably say temperament.

Good friend 35, 30, 35 miles north
that I referenced earlier, they have a

large herd of pure Michona and several
crosses and they just love them.

Don't have a problem with with
temperament, so maybe it was my bull

but anyway, did have a do have a pretty
good influence of that in our herd.

Cal: Think I've mentioned this on
the podcast before, but the first

South Poll field day I went to, I
was just shocked by how calm the

Andy: oh

Cal: And we've had some crazy
cows, but I grew up on dairy,

so I know what tame cows are,

Andy: right.

yeah,

Cal: herds to get them calm.

And we have, we don't tolerate any.

The only attitude provided is, I was going
to say my wife, but that would get me in

trouble, so the only attitude is from me.

So, So we've worked and we have
a real docile herd, I really like

them, but it's taken us time.

And when I look for cows, I make sure
I'm bringing pretty docile stuff in,

but I was just amazed, even with that
background, how calm South Poll's were

with all these strangers walking around

them

Andy: right,

right.

Cal: I was just shocked by it.

And I wondered if the Michonas would
have some of that same characteristics

because I've heard, with their development
in Africa and where they had to be so

close to people and where were they
penned up I wondered if they might

Andy: Right.

And again, Cal, it might
have very well been our bull.

And the females, the majority
of those heifers we kept.

But there were there were a few that
were culled because of temperament.

But yeah, absolutely, the South
Poll and the Devon breed, they

are extremely docile animals.

And growing up with the range cows, you
didn't have to push cows out of your way.

And now when we work.

cattle through the lot,
which is pretty rare.

We put our cattle through
the corral very seldom.

But It's almost maybe
they're too gentle almost.

You almost have to push them out
of the way and push them into the

pens and push them down the chute.

So,

Cal: that's what my dad's complaint is.

He's like, these

cows are too

Andy: Yeah.

Cal: You got to get a healthy balance

in there.

Andy: which my wife would probably
say that you can't get them too gentle.

And I must admit that, when they're out
in the fields, and not all of our cows can

you put a hand on out in the field, but
there are several of them that you can.

And I appreciate that.

Cal: I'm a fan of that as well.

In fact before we got on here or started
recording, I mentioned we'd just taken a

family trip with my parents, my siblings
and their kids and my kids and grandkids.

It was great, but my dad had to bring up
the story or it may have been my brother.

One of them's guilty.

On dairy, one of us had to go feed

calves.

And I love feeding calves, but they would
not always let me go, because they would

say, Well, if Cal goes feeds the calves,

Till the

end of

And Every calf will have
a name, and they're all

pets, and,

so so I enjoy calm animals.

Andy: absolutely.

I, in college, I worked on the
College at the college dairy some.

I don't think I enjoyed it
maybe as much as you did though.

Well, Yeah There was a gentleman from
Foreman who grew up on the dairy also

and he and I started school there the
same semester and he loved the dairy, so.

what?

Most weekends, my dad, I lived in the ag
dorm so with that came the responsibility

of weekends you were on the dairy.

But my dad expected me to come home
and work on the farm during college,

but Jason was his, this guy's name.

And He wanted to be there on the
weekends milking the cows, so, we

most of us gladly would let him.

Cal: Oh yeah.

Andy: When

Cal: When I went to OSU, I go out to the
dairy, and I'm applying for a job, and

the farm manager at the time, Glendon,
he's like, so you grew up on dairy?

And I said, yeah we dairy, my folks still
dairy I'm going to school for animal

science, I'd like to go home and dairy.

And he says, usually when people grow up
on a dairy, when they get to college, they

don't go to a dairy and look for a job.

Andy: well,

maybe you and Jason were the exceptions
to the rule, but I could probably

see that although I grew up, raising
beef cows and I still, is still

my passion, I still want to do it.

So maybe I can relate in that regard.

Yeah.

Cal: Going back to your story some,
you added, besides beef cattle,

you added some other species in

there.

Andy: Yeah.

Um.

Yeah, we had learned that raw milk,
the benefits of raw milk and actually

learned and it gets over my head real
quick, but my wife can talk a little

bit more about A2A2 milk, so we started
looking for an A2A2 milk cow and we

started out with, as far as the milk
cows, with buying for lack of better

words I hate to call them rejects, but
it was from a spent, almost spent dairy

cow from a cull dairy That didn't work.

Not when you were trying to
transition them to grass.

Actually we, and we went through I
forget we were, Tracy and I did a were

able to do the SOG conference several
years ago, and that was some of our

slides during the presentation were of
the milk cows we had gone through till

we finally found one that would work.

And actually, Mr.

Gerald Fry he found some grass genetic
jerseys that were A2A2 as well so,

yeah, the milk cows We had hogs I
say hogs growing up, but it was just

a It was feral hogs that were out
on the range where the cows were.

But we would work the pigs when
dad could catch them in the traps

we had built out in the woods.

And, A year, two or three laters,
you might catch a barrow that

that we could take to the house
and corn feed for a little while

and then butcher for home meat.

So that was different.

Also Buying hogs.

We bought a breeding pair of large
blacks that were grazing hogs and started

raising some pigs incorporated some
Berkshire in there at one point Tamworth.

And that was actually a really good
cross, the Tamworth Berkshire cross.

Goats We had goats and it was
Kiko and Spanish breeding.

And then a lot of mixed stuff.

And my daughter at one
point had a few milk goats.

And I do believe the saying that
you, to contain a goat you need

a fence that will contain water.

Because I, and not,

Well I say that.

And then there was a gentleman we let
bring some goats up here on our property.

Because he had no other place to go and he
was about to carry him to the sale barn.

And man, Cal, he contained
his goats with two poly wires.

Poly, two, two, two
stretches of poly braid.

But a goat has a sixth sense
that they know when there's

a problem with your charger.

And, yeah, And that's what started
our problem with goats because we

had a pretty good goat fence, but.

Would have problem, get some dead
shorts and that sixth sense would kick

in and then it had to retrain goats
or not, or they trained others to

get out, but he would, the only time
goats got out of his two wires is if

he had a problem with his charger.

So, and that was pretty amazing
to me, because even my sheep would

look at three wires and laugh.

So, But also had Katahdin hair
sheep for a little while, and I

mentioned a little bit ago, but made
the tough decision last, just last

year had so many fingers going on.

We had some building projects and
I need to probably back up and

talk about that just a minute in
a minute the building projects.

But Too many fingers going
different directions.

I didn't feel like I was doing a
very good job with any of them.

So we made the tough decision
late last year to sell the sheep.

Would like to get sheep back
someday because I think they

add a lot of things to the farm.

We initially got the sheep and
goats because we try to actually

practice beyond organically.

So we were going to use the sheep
and goats for brush control,

for broadleaf weed control.

Just never got all of the
infrastructure in place for them

to either have a flerd with the
cattle and those smaller ruminants

combined or a leader follower program.

So, The sheep and goats
were always at one place.

They were, and I rotated them, not like,
not extensively as we do the beef cattle,

but did rotate pastures with them.

Would like to certainly like to get
the the sheep for certain back someday

because of those attributes, uh, They,
and Greg Judy was able to be at his farm

a few years ago, and his sheep seemed
to eat as much or more as goats as

far as the brush, the broadleaf weeds.

Of course they eat grass too,
which that's that's wonderful.

But, yeah, that's, I guess that
was, we added we added bees in 2015.

Bees are, wow, that's a whole
nother skill set, a whole nother

lot of learning every time.

I think I have something
figured out about bees.

They teach me that I don't, and
I need to learn five more things.

Yeah.

The thing that the building
projects I mentioned earlier, when

we made the decision to sell our
home and the chicken operation in

2022, we reinvested that money.

We built a new home, but my wife has
always, for years, had wanted to do short

term rentals, Airbnb type situations.

We reinvested a good portion of that into
we have three rentals, short term rentals,

so, and the house but a lot was going on.

We had some builder issues ended
up finishing our home ourselves

but that kind of contributed to
the decision to sell the sheep.

Just so many things going on and
not able to do any of them well.

Cal: yeah, I get that.

And one thing you mentioned there was the
Airbnb just at the last lodging portion.

I know of some other farms
that have ventured into that to

provide a another income stream.

How is that working for you?

Of course, for everyone else,
you're in southwest Arkansas and

the view may be a little bit better
than what we have up here where

I'm located.

Andy: Cal, that's we don't have
a lot of industry in this area.

We don't have a lot of well, industry.

We have cattle, chickens, and
timber is about what we have here.

But I, this may be a biased opinion,
I don't know, but I tell all my

friends that this is God's country.

It's we have some beautiful scenery.

We have The Cusatot River is We're really
close to a place called the Falls and

it's the only class 5 water, I hope I'm
saying this correctly, between the Rockies

and the Appalachian Mountains when it's
in flood stage, it's class 5 water.

So we have really drawn, tried to make
a draw with that, with our rentals.

We do have one that's in
the middle of our farm.

It was actually housed
us for about 16 months.

We, when we made the decision to to sell
the farm Tracy had made a deal on this.

It was it's actually a finished out one
of these storage sheds that was finished

out but literally the day it was delivered
I showed the farm for the first time.

And When she made the deal on it, we
had not even made the decision to sell

the the Our home in the chicken houses.

So God was just providing us a place
to live Had hoped only live there

had hoped only live there for about
six months, but it turned out to be

16 months Due to the issues we had
with our builder But it's going well.

We're I think April I believe
it was marked the beginning of

our second year Still gaining,
you know trying to gain traction

so far it has a done as well as what
we set our books up for it to do.

The winter, the cold time is, it was dead.

April started to pick up.

May was really good.

And hopefully this summer will be,
but looks like it's gonna be good.

The we call The one that's in the
middle of our farm, we call it Bunky.

And I can look out my window.

It's at less than a quarter
of a mile from our home.

But it's in the middle of the farm, so,
Not used to, we live in a very rural

area, and not used to having neighbors
real close, and so, So when we've

had guests there that's been a little
different, Because where I milk, the

two cows that I'm currently milking,
it's About 150 yards from this stay.

And also that's where our chickens
are, and our, some beehives are there.

So, That, that's been different
getting used to folks being around,

or on, on the, actually on the farm.

Cal: Oh, yeah.

Love the idea of a couple cabins.

I've talked to my dad about it a
little bit, and I'm the only person,

well my wife agrees with me, that
would like to do it, so we're not

getting anything done right now.

But I think we have a couple
of excellent spots, I think

it'd be another income stream.

One day, you know they're, they
announced a theme park coming in.

30 minutes

Andy: Okay.

Okay.

Cal: we'll see if that happens.

If that happens, I think it
really changes some dynamics, and

I really can't afford more land

Andy: All right.

Cal: but we'll see what happens with that.

But I really like the idea of
lodging another way to, another

income stream as you're looking at

that on your

Andy: Yeah And that initially was
why we were while we looked at it.

Quite honestly, it was a trying to figure
out a way to replace the the chicken

house income because we had wanted to to
go a different route for quite some time.

Actually, the selling of our home, as I
mentioned earlier, that we'd raised our

children in, that my late father in law
built for us that was the big holdup in,

in making that, but still we were looking
we needed to replace that income somehow.

Cal: Yeah, Andy, this has been
a wonderful story, but we need

to transition just a little bit.

Let's transition to the overgrazing
section, and you mentioned, in

that part of Arkansas you've
got cattle, chickens, and

Andy: Right.

Right.

Cal: So if you've got timber, then
we need to talk about silvopasture.

Andy: Right.

Cal: So For the overgrazing section,
let's dive a little bit more into

what you're doing with silvopasture.

Andy: Cal, that's it's been something
that's intrigued me for a while And yet

I know probably very little about it.

In 2018 I somehow came in
contact and I can only remember

the gentleman's first name.

It was Gregory, but he was a maybe you
would call it a liaison for University

of Missouri's Agroforestry Center or
Department, which they have one of the

more famous in the country, I understand,
as far as Agroforestry Department.

Came in contact with him.

He invited me to a a a field day they
were putting on in Columbus, Missouri,

which is a long ways from Grannis

Arkansas.

Cal: Oh,

Andy: So I and of course we still
had the chickens, so I made the

journey on my own, was able to go.

Tracy blessed me with watching
the farm while I was gone.

But he told me, he said, it's just
a field day, but if you come up,

I'll make it worth your while.

Didn't know what that meant at the time.

So went up learned quite a lot there
at that field day, and he told me at

the end of the day, he said, that is
real close to where Greg Judy farms.

Had met Greg Judy, talked with
him, been to a couple conferences,

but I'd never been to his farm to
see what all was going on there.

He said he said, if you'll take one of
my students, I've arranged something

to, you can go to, y'all will go to Greg
Judy's farm, and he'll give you a tour.

Sure enough, I expected as busy as he
is that an intern or something like that

would tour us around but Greg was there
and He said hop on the four wheeler.

Let's go look at some cows.

So he actually tossed me off the four
wheeler I don't think he even knew

it but the young lady the student
was Forgive me, but I forget the

European country that she was from.

Very interesting young lady who was
very interested in agroforestry.

Thank you.

But she was on one fender of the
four wheeler, I was on the other.

He was talking to her, we
were flying across this field.

And he tossed me, and I don't think he
ever knew it, but I hit my feet running

and jumped back on the four wheeler
and it just went on, he never stopped.

But he's got some neat things
going on there, some of which

is agroforestry or silvopasture.

Silvopasture is I don't know if
it's official definition, but by

definition it's the intentional
growing of trees and pasture together.

It is also, I've learned that it is
also one of the, it's in the top 10,

I believe number nine internationally
ways of sequestering carbon, which

that's certainly a hot button
these days to sequester carbon.

But Didn't know that when I became
interested in it I wanted it as it was,

those are all, that's great don't get
me wrong, but my interest in it was

keeping the cow, cattle out in the field.

I didn't want them in the heat of
the day going to the creek bank

and depositing all their manure on
the creek bank, in the creek in the

cooler parts, so I needed some shade.

I am in south, as I mentioned
earlier, I am in southwest Arkansas.

July and August days get pretty warm
out there in the field, so felt like

we needed some shade for the cattle,
but wanted to provide that out in

the field so they can put their urine
and their manure out on the field.

And fertilization out there for me
which that's our fertility program

anyway, but needed to transition
where the bulk of that was going.

So a lot of benefits from it.

Still learning it I, I think if I'm
remembering correctly the end goal

is 35 40 percent shade couple ways to
create silvopasture one is obviously

to go into existing timber and thin
timber I guess the other is to plant

trees into existing pasture We're I
guess you would say blessed on the

property we're on now that we're still
trying to create the silvopasture here,

but it was cleared a few years ago.

We were able to buy some property
from a timber company who didn't

want the dirt, as they called it.

They wanted the trees, they
didn't want the dirt, so, we were

able to buy the dirt from them.

A lot of rocks with that dirt, by
the way here in southwest Arkansas.

But We don't use herbicides, so, with
the thinning of a forest, there's

a lot of sprouts that come back.

So, When we were finally able to get
a dozer on the property to do the land

clearing, dozer I instructed him at that
time to leave a lot of trees and was

just starting to learn about silvopasture
and didn't realize how many I need.

So I, he, he worked a day
or two and he said, well, go

look, see, what I need to do.

And I came back and made a big mistake.

I said, take half of those out.

I should have left those.

So now as I'm bush hogging still have some
sprouts coming up, so I'm leaving a lot

of the hardwoods that are coming up and.

Probably leaving too many, but
I can always go back in thin.

And as a tree, obviously, as a tree
grows, it will provide more shade, so

I'm gonna need more trees now to obtain
that 35 to 40% shade as opposed to a

a 10, 20-year-old oak tree is gonna
give a whole lot more shade than a

5-year-old oak tree or hick hickory tree.

So,

Cal: so if I understood you correctly,
you didn't go in and plant any trees.

These are all coming up on their
own, and you're leaving them,

managing them so they continue to

Andy: I have actually
planted some trees, Cal.

Planted a few black
walnuts, but in this year.

And I'm starting to enjoy that's
a whole other segment, I guess.

But an orchard.

I sold my food forest with
the property that we sold.

So I'm creating a new
permaculture orchard.

So I graft a lot of trees, but not
planting those out in the pastures at this

time, which that's not unheard of to do.

But in 2020, we partnered with a company
and planted Paulownia which my neck

of the woods is a little, I believe
just a little north to, to plant them.

They're more of a I don't know if
I'd call them a tropical tree, but we

have lost some to winter kill here.

But they are, I'm told that they hold
the Guinness Book of World Records

to be the fastest growing tree.

And

so my thought was, which this company
we partnered with obviously is

looking for timber, but my thought
would be real some real quick shade.

And they do grow quickly.

We have lost a lot during the winter here.

Deer like them.

We have an incredible whitetail
population and for the first three

years deer didn't bother them.

We had a winter kill last winter of 23,
lost a pretty good percentage of them.

And when I, They have an
incredibly strong root.

When I say winter kill I'm just
talking about the top growth.

Went back to cut the dead tree out.

Well, There's tons of sprouts
coming back that I have to

thin down to one, one one stem.

Well, The deer found them then.

And They seem to love paulownia.

So none of those that winter killed
have been able to regrow because

the deer keep them eating off.

But anyway, the ones that
are there they grew quickly.

Hopefully most of those
will will make it yet.

But I guess those are the
only trees that I've planted.

Lot of good species for that.

I'm interested in
hedgerows or living fences.

Cal: Oh yes.

Andy: have a bed right now that
I overwintered some hedge apples.

And have a lot of young bois
d' arc that goes by a few

different names, Osage orange.

But Going to do some hedgerows as well
with those, and probably do a living

fence around the orchard with with dois
d' arc and a few other prickly things.

So, Yeah, we have a pretty incredible
whitetail population around here

and they're hard on apple trees.

I think live

Cal: living fences or hedgerows are great.

I would love to do some with hedge
apples or bodark, oh sage orange.

But my dad already thinks I'm crazy,
so I'm trying not to go too far.

One of these days I plan on doing
some because I love the look of it.

I love, There's so much about it I like.

I love the look of it.

I think it provides a habitat, that edge
habitat, or it's not really edge habitat,

it's edge of your field habitat, but
it's providing some habitat for some

smaller mammals and birds and stuff there,

which

Andy: Yup

There's an old saying that with the
use of bois d' arc Osage Orange in

four years you can have a fence that is
horse high, bull strong, and pig tight.

Cal: Oh yeah

Andy: hopefully it'll be
deer, deer height as well.

because I, we had, I'd put a seven
foot fence around my old orchard

and I've seen them jump that.

Cal: Oh yeah.

But with the boat ark I don't know.

I'll cut that out.

I lost my train of thought there.

Anyway, I think that's fascinating.

We'll see how that goes.

Your

pol, Paulownia,

Andy: PP Paulownia?

Royal Empress.

It's also called Royal Empress.

Poplar black locust they, willow,
make good silvopasture trees and you

can also pollard a lot of those yeah.

For, and some people do that.

Steve Gabriel has a book I read
Silvopasture, it's called, entitled

Silvopasture, that there are four
species of trees that he uses to

actually pollard in front of livestock
to, or in case of drought, he can

provide forage for his animals.

So I think that's pretty
interesting as well.

Cal: Yeah, I think so too.

Are you doing anything when the trees are
young to keep your cattle from hurting

Andy: I guess,

What I'm doing right now, Cal, is running
a pretty low stock density right now

because the cattle especially this time
of year with the young vegetative growth,

they like hickory, they like oak, they
love, they relish sweet gum, but that

right now is the only thing I'm doing.

As a matter of fact, some of
the black walnuts that I'd

planted, I noticed they nipped.

A little bit out of the top, but I
think later summer tree tubes are

incredibly expensive and it would be
certainly cost prohibitive for the

number that I would need for this, so.

that's why I'm trying this route.

And the patterns, wouldn't really work
for electric fence too, cause I've got

some unusual patterns out in the field.

So some people use electric fence simply
to, to keep them off of the trees they're

trying to grow into silvopasture trees.

Cal: I know for Us, and this is just
me not thinking about it, but Dad

wanted to graft some of our pecan trees

this year.

So, Got in touch, and it's been
a decade since we've grafted any.

So Dad got OSU extension and
come out and do it and just

make sure and show us

so we know for sure
we're doing it correctly.

But when we went to look at our trees,
we just have a grove of pecan trees

that's grown up And we've always wanted
to expand it, we just never have,

and now it's actually too crowded.

We're thinning it some now, but we got out
there and we were looking for young trees

to graft, and we didn't have very many.

And then when I thought about it, I've
been running goats and sheep for about 15

years, and so that has took out all my,

young trees, or really young trees.

Now, in doing that, we've identified
a whole bunch of just brand new trees

coming up that I'm going to do a
better job of protecting but I got

to figure out how to protect them.

I'm not running goats in that area,
so that takes away a little bit of an

issue there, but I still have sheep
coming up there, so I'm going there's

three of our paddocks that we run
through that I will have to make sure

I don't let the sheep into that area,

so we can get some

Andy: I'm not sure about sheep and
goats because I've not tested that,

but I've had pretty good results
with this young orchard because

there's no fence at all around it.

I mentioned we had a pretty good
whitetail population around here.

Have you ever heard of
Sepp Holzer bone sauce?

Cal: No, I

Andy: sauce a few years and
it's as it the name implies.

You actually get some large marrow bones
and there's a whole process to making it.

But paint it on the trees and
it's so far I'm having success

with it keeping the deer off.

Now, again, I don't have experience
with sheep and goats in that manner, but

Cal: Oh

Andy: a try.

Cal: oh yeah, might be worth it.

I'll have to look that up and see.

Well Andy, it is time we go
ahead and transition once again

to our famous four questions.

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