Let's Talk About Text, Baby! | Nov 19, 2025

What is The Independence Podcast?

The Independence Podcast helps everyday people discover that true freedom isn’t found in self-reliance but in total dependence on Jesus Christ. Each episode blends honest conversation, biblical truth, and practical application to help listeners move beyond emotional devotion toward consistent, daily surrender. Whether you’re new in your faith or longing to grow deeper, you’ll find encouragement to trust God fully, live from His grace, and follow Christ with courage in a world that celebrates independence but neglects dependence on the One who truly sets us free.

Bryan Dunham (00:00)
Let's talk about text, baby. Let's talk about you and me. Let's talk about all the good things and the bad things that may be. Let's talk about text. Let's talk about text. welcome, my friends, to episode six of the Independence Podcast. I am your host, Brian Dunham, and that is the topic today, the text, specifically the Bible.

the B-I-B-L-E. And what we're going to talk about today is not only how does it impact our lives or how do we utilize it as we're living independence on God or learning to live that way, and this may take a couple of episodes to cover, but this first episode at least, if we don't get it all done today, is going to cover some broader strokes about the book specifically. And then, and how does it...

not just historically as a piece of literature, but how does it play its way into our lives today and what is its importance for me today? So I want to begin with a story, a pretty famous story about a famous rabbi named Rabbi Akiva. He was a pretty famous first century rabbi. And as the story goes, one evening, Rabbi Akiva was walking home and he was deeply absorbed in scripture.

and in meditation, and he missed his usual turn. So he ends up at the gate of a Roman fortress. A Roman guard shouts down from the wall, who are you and what are you doing here? And Rabbi Akiva doesn't immediately respond. He's still pretty lost in his thoughts and it's like someone's shaking him awake. And then he hears again, I said, who are you and what are you doing here? And then Rabbi Akiva,

ask the guard, how much do they pay you to ask me those questions? The guard says, two drachma a week. Rabbi Akila responds, I'll pay you double if you come to my house every morning and ask me those same two questions. Who are you and what are you doing here? The meaning behind this

in many modern tellings is that Rabbi Akiva wanted these deep existential questions asked of him daily. Who am I? And what am I doing here? So who are you? Who are you? And what are you doing here today? These are some of the most important questions a person can ask himself before God. Who are you forces us to confront our identity, not just our identity though, our character.

Our integrity, our calling.

what are you doing here confronts our purpose, our mission, our faithfulness to God's assignment. And I do believe that. I believe that you are here on assignment and I am too. And so it's not ironic that in the quiet moments or moments of struggle or moments of grief, like when we get really in

touch with our souls. I do not think that it is ironic that these kinds of questions begin erupting in our soul. The deep questions like, who am I? What am I doing here? And what is happening in this place? These are healthy and they

Oftentimes questions like this are what lead us to the sacred. They lead us to religions of various types. every major religion has its own sacred text. And very often this is where people will turn when it's like, I want to connect with the divine. And so then they move to the sacred text of whatever religion they seem to gravitate towards. you know, Islam has the Quran.

The Hindu has the Vedas, Buddhism has the Sutras, Judaism has the Tanakh, Christianity has the Bible. And the Bible is a collection of books, not just one book. It's a treasure trove of 66 books written by over 40 different

authors over a span of 1500 years. It is comprised of poetry, historical narrative, wisdom literature, prophecy, some apocalyptic literature in there, just letters, correspondence from one person to another or one person to groups of people. There's genealogies. There's so much in this book that you and I call the Bible.

And I wonder if some of us look at it that maybe even aren't that familiar with it and think, well, this is just some outdated rule book that has no application to my life as a 21st century human. And my argument is that is not the case on both of those fronts. That it is this amazing piece of literature that even though it was written over this span of 1,500 years and so many different authors,

all seems to revolve around a point. And we'll get to what that point is eventually, maybe not in this particular episode, but it's one of the most amazing things about this book. And something else that really stands out about this book to me is there are 52 countries in the world where it is illegal to possess a Bible.

or its use is severely restricted in that place. And that's pretty amazing. Like, what is it about this book that other countries say you can't even own one of those? And then there are organizations whose entire purpose for existing, even though it may be an ulterior purpose, is to smuggle Bibles into those parts of the world. Like,

people are risking their freedom, potentially their lives for this book, to get this book to places where it's not allowed? I mean, just those two concepts alone should blow our minds that there are places in the world that governments, countries, leaders say, not that book.

You're not going to own that it is too dangerous. is too subversive. You can't have it. And then there are other organizations that risk their lives to try to ensure that those people can have one.

It's amazing. And do you see that same thing when it comes to these other sacred texts? Like, are there countries where some of these other texts are illegal?

So this is really something that makes the Bible unique in its banning and in its people being willing to risk their lives to get it in someone else's hands. And that's not the only thing that makes the Bible unique. Without question, it is the most successful literary creation ever, ever. It is more successful than some of the greatest texts.

in the world, like when it comes to sales. Like if you think about the Bible, it sits at the top of sales of any book, year over year, almost every day. But when I pulled up the statistics on this, the Bible is the greatest selling piece of literature ever written. It has sold over five billion, would it be, copies.

the other, you know, the interesting top five here after that. The Quran is number two, ⁓ right about half of what the Bible has sold. The third book is quotations from Chairman Mao, which has sold 900 million copies. I wonder, you know, if that is being forced upon a population somewhere, perhaps. The next one is Don Chiodi with 500 million and then

Wow. Another one, selected articles of chairman Mao has sold 450 million, then a tale of two cities at 200 million and Lord of the Rings at 150 million. the Harry Potter series, not, one of the individual books makes that kind of top five or six list, but the series does the series has sold several hundred million. if you combine them all together, but, when you look again, again, across history at great literature,

Homer's been translated into 40 languages, Shakespeare's been translated into 60 languages, the Bible has been translated into well over 2,000 languages, 10 times more than any other book. And again, there are many organizations whose entire goal is to translate the Bible into local indigenous language. Like, that's why they exist, is to translate this book and its words into...

Someone's local language that they can understand and it's it's a publisher's dream Right that this sells 44 million copies every single year the Bible does in the average American household There are 6.8 Bibles. I'm not sure how many you've got running around your house We always had a lot growing up. My dad seemed to collect them I got I went through that phase too, but I would say we probably have six six or seven for sure

And if the sales of the Bible were reflected in bestseller lists, it would be a rare week that it would not be sitting on top, even after all these years. It is unique in that way. It's also uniquely powerful. It has changed individuals. It has changed societies. When people read the Bible, they often find deep personal meaning, spiritual guidance for sure, hope.

in the Bible's teachings, many people have reported like radical life change from despair or addiction, just reading through the message of the Bible's stories of redemption and forgiveness. Augustine, Constantine, countless others, you know, are quoted just kind of reflecting the book's power to

foster identity and transformation, a sense of calling, a sense of moral responsibility. Societies have adopted biblical principles to form up the laws of their society. Ideas like justice, compassion, loving one's neighbor, those have been pulled into legal codes and social norms. Concepts like the Ten Commandments have become the foundation of many legal systems.

in the world. The Bible has helped to drive many social movements, the abolitionist movement, civil rights, efforts towards welfare and charity across cities and countries that need it. Like it's amazing in how powerful its words have been to people to inspire them to take action around these particular topics. And the Bible has deeply influenced art, music,

Literature, storytelling, like again, those themes of redemption, sacrifice, struggle, the struggle between good and evil that kind of permeates Western traditions. These all come from the Bible. Philosophical, ethical debate, from the concepts of freedom to just the pure nature of existence, they've all been shaped by biblical ideas for centuries. It's a very, very powerful book that's had a lot of influence.

And even today, its continuing legacy is just seen in how it guides personal and social transformation. When a new king is coronated in England, in fact, we just saw this recently with King Charles III in 2023, during his coronation,

There's a phrase that they, when they're presenting the English Bible to the British monarch at that ceremony, they present the Bible and say, this is the most valuable thing that this world affords. Many families have like a precious family Bible that has been handed down through time. We recently went on a family trip. My siblings every year go on a, I don't always go or I don't always get to go. I did get to go this year on a family.

⁓ on a vacation trip for a few days where my siblings and their spouses and the kids get together. ⁓ again, not every year everybody goes, but I got to go this year and Rachel, my daughter was with me. And then when on the way back home, she realized she didn't have her Bible. and we ultimately determined, you know, what had happened to it. My brother had, my brother Christopher had inadvertently packed it up with their family's things. And, and so.

It wasn't lost, but the first couple days, she was almost depressed. she was really missing this book. And there was a clear sadness. And she said, dad, my whole life's in that book. Like I need it. And in one sense of me, was like, I'm not sure that the attachment to this book is healthy. But then at the same time, it was like, I love that it means that much to you. I love that this book.

means that much to you. And she's 15, y'all. It's not like she's a 35-year-old, somebody in seminary, theologian type. But the book speaks to her like it does to so many other people. And so we treasure them. We treasure them. In the Bible itself,

talks about it like in Matthew, I think it's Matthew chapter four, Jesus says, people don't live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God. And there is a seeking there, right? There's looking for life, not just in material things. And I think we all know, we can all recognize if we look at our lives that there's not a lot of life in material things. Temporarily, they seem to satisfy for a period of time, but then that

feeling is fleeting and so we are looking for something that sustains and we have this spiritual hunger that just that has to be satisfied by spiritual things. Longing, I would characterize it as a longing for relationship with our Creator. That every word that is coming out of the mouth of God, God speaks to us primarily through the Bible.

And like Psalms tells us that the heavens declare the glory of God, Romans 1, Paul tells us that there is enough in creation to reveal God to us. And that is true, 100%. Like when you look around at the created order to think that all of this just happened, that it just came about, actually takes more faith than it does to be a believer and a creator. Like when you stack them side by side, when you look at the intricacies and both of those ideas,

it does take more faith to believe that this just happened. And some people would say, well, I'm not a person of faith. That's not true. Every person is a person of faith. Every person is believing in something. You're putting your beliefs in something. just seems to me like it takes less faith to believe in the Creator when you look around created order. But creation does not tell us much about what God is like.

There are some things we can infer from creation, but it doesn't really tell us what God is like. So the Bible is there to do that. The Bible is there to help us understand. And why is the Bible so uniquely popular? And why does the Bible seem to have these influences and these impacts? Why is the Bible banned in other countries and organizations are built to smuggle them in so people can have them? It's because the Bible is what it claims to be.

in 2 Timothy chapter 3 verse 16, it says that all scripture, this is the Bible, right? all scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness. Meaning when it says all scripture is given by inspiration of God, that can also be translated as God breathed.

Like there is the belief that God inspired these writers to put down what they put. And there is, there's just something about this book when you read it. When I read it, I feel like I'm interacting with it. Like the book is reading me more so than I'm reading it in a way that I've not experienced with any other book ever. And I'm a reader. I love to read. And I've read some of these other sacred texts. I have read the Quran front to back. I have read some of the Vedas, some of the Sutras, like

but it's not the same. It's just not the same. And personal experience will tell you that. If you apply it, if you just do a little experiment with the Bible and some of these other texts, I think you will find that there is something mysteriously different about this book. It doesn't mean there aren't difficulties. When you look at the Bible, there surely are. Peter even says, when Peter is writing, talking about Paul,

says that Paul's hard to understand. So when you have one apostle that can't even understand the other one, like, do we think we're really going to get it all? No. And to be honest, like when you look around our religious culture, down through time, the religious leaders have always thought that they are the ones that have it right. It's always been that way. Always. And it was that way in Jesus's time as well. And I think one of the

biggest reasons people turn away from God is not because of God, but it's because of doctrine and what the church teaches about what the Bible says and how to interpret that and what you must believe to be a part of the church or one of the chosen ones. But understand when it comes to the Bible, so much of it is interpretation. It has to be interpreted. This is why rabbis were needed.

all the way back to the beginning, that we needed someone. Because God will say things like, hero Israel, this is from Deuteronomy six, this is the most significant prayer in Judaism, hero Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your might. Okay, great. On the surface from the 30,000 foot view, awesome. But what does it mean to love God?

And love him with all my heart, with all my soul. And this word might, it's a weird word in Hebrew, it's mayod, it actually means very. Like if you literally translated that verse, it'd love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and all your very. Somebody has to interpret that. And so the rabbis down through time have done that.

And as we continue to move along in history, the current religious groups have their interpretations of the Bible. When God says, shall not work on the Sabbath, well, what does it mean to work? And what if someone else's rest is work to me? Or vice versa, what if someone's kind of what you would call work is rest?

When I was over in Israel, they actually had markings on the ground. So for on Shabbat or on Sabbath, you could not walk a certain distance beyond the city gate because that would be considered work. So someone has to interpret these things. so my encouragement would be, some things are pretty clear in the Bible. Some things require a lot of interpretation and there are well,

Meaning followers of Jesus that disagree on some things some some doctrinal things that they Really believe like they're there. I've have good friends that that certainly seem to be five-point Calvinists which really just means that You have you know that God chooses Beforehand who is going to essentially make it into heaven and who is not that God created some of us to be matchsticks and to burn in hell

and God has created others of us to be with him forever and that that is God's decision in totality and you and I don't actually make that decision which you know that has a lot of free will implications for me that's not not the route that I would go but again there are well-meaning really hardcore Jesus followers that are really trying to walk that out in

in honesty and in truth in their life that have a different interpretation of some biblical verses that lead to that belief that is different from mine. there verses also that would back up the idea of, in my opinion, free will, that you do have the choice, that God's foreknowledge is not God pre-choosing. It's simply knowing in advance what you will choose. Much deeper topic, maybe we'll actually tackle that on an episode. My whole point is,

There's a lot in the Bible that is up for interpretation. And so my encouragement to you is don't let someone else's interpretation of who God is and what he is like keep you from him. Don't make that mistake. Just because you don't like what someone is saying over here, don't let that keep you from seeking the creator, from seeking the one who is seeking you. All you have to do is try a little

bit of an experiment with the Bible. If you're not much of a Bible reader or to try to experience his power, you can just get alone, clear your mind and begin to read it. And then ask yourself, what's it saying? What is this verse saying? And is there anything here that can apply to me? Because if this book is what it claims to be and he is who he claims to be,

and you are essentially desiring to seek him, you will find him. Scripture itself tells us that, Jeremiah 29, 13, you will seek me and find me when you seek me with all of your heart. And again, what I find when I read this book is I am interacting with it in some mysterious way. It's like interacting with an old friend that knows me.

and has the relational currency to speak gentle truth into my life. I try to never miss my time. have a, I generally get up early in the morning specifically to read scripture, to meditate on it. I try never to miss it. It is the most important part of my day because it is where I connect with God and he speaks with me and through the Bible,

Like it's one of the primary ways you and I will hear from God. Are there other ways? Yes, this is the biggest one. So if you're wondering, well, how do I do that? Like, do I just grab it, crack it open and start reading? A method that was taught to me pretty early on is the SOAP method, S-O-A-P, which is, and that stands for S is scripture, O is observation, A is application, and P is prayer.

And in prayer, I preached on this this last Sunday, and I don't try not to hijack this episode talking about what prayer is. But the Bible specifically talks about prayers and supplications. think a lot of you and I have a tendency to I certainly did most of my life to think of prayer as just my grocery list, my polite grocery list to God. Hey, here's the things I want in prayer is only requests when the reality of prayer is not

requests. It is primarily you asking God to change your mind. Like, help me understand things from your point of view. Help me understand how to love. Help me understand how to love you, how to love my neighbor, some of these other things in the Bible. is literally the Greek word for prayer is pros yukomai. Pros means to exchange. Yukomai means desires or wants. And what you're doing in prayer is you're asking God

Lord, take the desires and wants of my heart and replace them with yours because you're my creator. You know better than me. I don't want to be bent on selfishness. I want to be bent on serving. so help me exchange those. And we'll do an episode on prayer too. fact, I've got someone teed up to talk about that next week, I think. We'll see. So just know that that P of the soap, scripture, observation, application, prayer is

asking God to help change you in what you have read. So I thought maybe an example would be great. I've got my Bible in front of me. This is not difficult to do. Psalms is open, but I'm just going to flip to a random Psalm. This is not how I would encourage people generally to read the Bible. You could always just start in a book like Psalms. I think Psalms is great to begin with. Also, maybe one of the Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John, any of them.

You can start with any book, whatever you want. Maybe not Leviticus, maybe not that one. Maybe save that one for a later devotional time period. But I just opened up, it happens to be, see, this is Psalm 41. So I'm just going to start reading. how I would encourage you to do this with the SOAP method is I always had a journal and I would write out S and I would start reading a Psalm like this until something really spoke to me. So I'm just going to start reading. Blessed is the one who considers the poor.

In the day of trouble, the Lord delivers him. The Lord protects him and keeps him alive. He is called blessed in the land. You do not give him up to the will of his enemies. The Lord sustains him on his sick bed. In his illness, you restore him to full health." So I'm going to stop there because there's a lot in these three verses. And so the first thing I would write down would be the scripture is Psalm 41, one through three. And then as

my observations of this text. Like what do you observe? Like just read it and what is here at face value? Blessed is the one, okay I want to be blessed, right? Who doesn't want to be blessed? Blessed is the one who considers the poor. Now the translation I'm reading out of is the English Standard Version. Again, someone's interpretation of what the original Hebrew words meant. Other scripture translations will be very close to this but we'll use some different words. I would encourage you, find one that works.

⁓ find one that works for you. There are some other folks probably hear that and go, no, don't do that. I would recommend to you, I would come into you the English standard version, but there are others. all right. So blessed is the one who considers the poor. So if I want to be blessed, I'm considering the poor. What does it mean to consider the poor?

Am I considering the poor that I see every day? Like the poor people that I see every day, the ones that are standing on the corner, usually if I'm out driving somewhere. And am I considering their plight? Like that's a human, that is a human being right there. What would it take for you? Like if you were to go stand on a corner with a sign asking for someone to give you money, first of all, how broken would your pride have to be to bring you to that place? Like that's worth considering.

What would it take for me to go out there? and you can sit back and say, well, you know, I mean, you could come up with all kinds of reasons as to why you could justify in your head that that person is gaming the system or maybe this is their full-time job or whatever. Those stories are out there. They're definitely the, exception and not the rule. Like don't play that mental game with yourself. Ask yourself, what would it take for how desperate would the situation have to be for you to be in that spot? And then think about.

that person being in that, in that spot, consider them. And what does that mean for you in your life? And, and does that spur gratefulness for the things that you have, or you think you there's all these things that you might want. It's like, but you know, when you're in that position where you got to go stand on a street corner, like what about your family? Where are they? there anybody that can help you? That those kinds of things is considering the poor to me. Like this is my personal observations.

What are yours? What would your observations be? And then write those down. And then it says, in the day of trouble, the Lord delivers him. And to me, I'm wondering, is it the poor that the Lord delivers in the day of trouble, or is it the one that's considering the poor? And if I am considerate of the poor, like what are some of the benefits of that in the day of trouble? And what does that mean, the day of trouble? Like how would I define the day of trouble? What would be the day of trouble for me?

The passing away of a family member would be certainly a day of trouble. Losing my job would be a day of trouble. Getting arrested, that'd be a day of trouble. These are observations. When I think about, I'm just going to stop right there because I could continue to go on, but even right there, it's like, okay, then what's the application to my life? Today, I'm going to consider the poor. I'm going to think about them and not just think about it. How can that motivate me to action?

Are there scenarios or situations in my life where I could step in with either resources or my time, especially this time of year? Thanksgiving is next week. Like there are all kinds of organizations that look for volunteers this time of year to help out with those that are poor and need help. Easy to find those opportunities. If you've never done that, I encourage you to do it. But in this application again, scripture.

We've done some observations. So the application for my life is today I'm going to consider the poor and I'm going to, I'm really, thing I'm going to consider is what can I do? Is there something I can do? I can certainly, you know, hand some cash to the guy I might see on the street corner. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. And I don't think it's, it's my, ⁓ place to judge what they do with that money. I just don't. that's personal and that's my personal interpretation. Yours might be different, but.

If it's not that, then what? If it's not that, then what? And then maybe it's helping out at an organization. But here's where the prayer part comes in. You're just asking God. God.

Give me your heart for the poor. Give me your heart for those that are suffering. Open my eyes to where I see that around me today and show me what I can do. Bring the ideas into my head. Help me see how I could help this person today. That's SOAP, S-O-A-P, pretty easy. And that's one way, there's a number of them, but just to get yourself interacting with this book that again,

is the best seller almost every day of the week. Certainly year in, year out, the best selling book of all time that is banned in countries that organizations, people risk their lives to have other people get a copy of this. Like how could something that significant not be a significant part of your life? How could you not at least

find out what is going on in these pages that is that transformational.

Thank you so much for listening today. This again, talking about the text, baby. So next week, we'll do another episode leaning into dependence on God through scripture. What does scripture tell me about that? What are some specific verses and what does that scripture tell me about how to live my life in full?

Dependents if you find value in this episode, please share with someone else. Let them know Follow the podcast certainly all of that is hopeful And yeah, I've got I haven't mentioned this yet, but I have a book that's coming out December the 15th That is called questions. God asks it is my very first book and I say it that way because I had so much fun writing this book that I'll never not be writing a book. I really feel like that's the truth. I will never not be writing a book anyway

More to come on that. Thank you for listening. Grace and peace, my friends.