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For over 25 years Proverbs 31 Ministries' mission has been to intersect God's Word in the real, hard places we all struggle with. That's why we started this podcast. Every episode will feature a variety of teachings from president Lysa TerKeurst, staff members or friends of the ministry who can teach you something valuable from their vantage point. We hope that regardless of your age, background or stage of life, it's something you look forward to listening to each month!
Kaley Olson: Well, Cailah, we're so excited to be here with the one and only Lysa TerKeurst. It's always fun to get to hang out with you in this podcast setting. It's like a work thing, but not a work thing. Right. It's for the people. It's not behind the scenes.
Lysa TerKeurst: That's right. Here we are today. This is a conversation that we would have just here at the office.
Kaley Olson: I know, genuinely.
Lysa TerKeurst: I almost said sitting around the office, but we never sit around the office.
Kaley Olson: We never sit around the office with podcast mics in front of us, although that kind of has like the office show vibes. It does. It really does. I feel like if we were to do that, but maybe it's an idea we'll tuck away for later and probably actually won't ever do. But we are here today because...
this little prayer book that you've worked so hard on titled Come Close to Jesus is out for the world now. And I'm so excited about it. It's beautiful. And we are gonna talk more about it, but-
- Lysa, I know that you like a good laugh and I like a good laugh and Cailah likes a good laugh. - I love to laugh. - So before we actually start talking about come close to Jesus, I thought it would be fun to do a little bit of an icebreaker of sorts. While, you know, we do want to come close to Jesus,
There are things that have happened that we're probably like, oh man, I'm so glad I came so close to blank happening. But I'm so glad that actually didn't happen. So I'm gonna call this game, That Was Close. Okay. And I'm gonna read a few scenarios. Okay. And any of us can respond and be like, oh, I have a story for this. Oh, I'm so here for this. So just like really quick, really quick, okay? Okay, for example,
Have you ever come close to tripping in public and had to play it cool?
Has that happened to anybody?
Lysa TerKeurst: Well, okay. I came close to falling headfirst in a trash can after I tripped in public.
Kaley Olson: Wait, what?
Lysa TerKeurst: Yeah.
Cailah Garcia: When did this happen? Where were you? Give us a rundown.
Kaley Olson: There's actually a scene on Mean Girls where she did fall headfirst into the trash can.
Lysa TerKeurst: Okay, I've never seen that. But I yeah, I was on tour with Levi Lusko and I went like running up the front stairs at the stage just to show my excitement to like be there with everyone. And I don't know what happened exactly, but I tripped. I slid across the stage to where like my torso was hanging off the stage. I looked down and there was a trash can there. So I came very close to going head first in that trash can in front of an entire audience.
And I did have to get up and speak after that. And I had rug burns bleeding on my arm.
Kaley Olson: Lysa.
Lysa TerKeurst: I know. Because there was carpet on the stage. So there you have it.
Cailah Garcia: Tough girl.
These are the kind of conversations that I like letting everybody else into because we're all such real people.
Cailah Garcia: Real girls.
Kaley Olson: Mine is I actually came really close to falling down stadium stairs. So like, you know, like big arena, like conference stairs. And I did. And I went really, I like dipped back. And it was the most ungraceful recovery ever. So I didn't actually fall all the way down, but everybody saw it. And I did not hear the end of it.
Lysa TerKeurst: What's most embarrassing to me is when everybody's like, are you okay? Are you okay? Are you okay? And I'm like, just ignore. Just ignore that that just happened.
Kaley Olson: My ego is not. Don't feel Elsa all the way. Okay. Okay. Okay. One more. No, let's do two more. Okay. Have you ever come close to missing a flight?
Cailah Garcia: Oh, 100%. There was a time that my husband and I were heading out of the country. We had scheduled this beautiful trip. We overslept. Our alarms did not go off. And it was like, oh, 100%. I almost left myself at home for this wonderful European trip that I had planned. And we made it within five minutes. Got to the wrong gate.
And we were sitting around and we're like, why are they not calling us yet? And we hear these intercom like calls and they're like such and such like party come or you'll miss your flight. And we're like, what are they talking about? Oh my goodness. Those people are about to miss us. We're sitting at the wrong gate. And our gate was actually on the other side of the airport. So my husband and I had to sprint running like crazy people across the airports.
It was insane.
Kaley Olson: I just don't. I'm such a cautious person at airports that I just plan for more time than I feel like I see because I don't want to be in that situation.
Lysa TerKeurst: I know. I'm right there with you. Well, there's been many times that I've almost missed a flight. There have been many times where I have missed a flight. One time is just because whoever was traveling with me, we were just sitting at the gate talking. We got so wrapped up in our conversation that
They boarded the flight and it was chaotic. So there's tons of people around, but they boarded the flight. They took off and we looked down and it said in the air on our app. And I was like, oh my gosh. My goodness.
Kaley Olson: You can tell you fly all the time.
Lysa TerKeurst: I do fly all the time. But I do like to get to the airport very early. My family makes fun of me because I'm like two hours before. Yeah, for sure. No exceptions.
Kaley Olson: Yeah, for sure. But you can get so much stuff done. I know. There's nothing like sitting at your gate, pulling your laptop out.
Getting a little grind in. I agree. Okay, last one and I'll answer this. But for our friends online watching this, you can answer this question as well in the chat if you want to. It's, have you ever come close to walking into the wrong restroom? And I have many times, okay? There's this restaurant here in Charlotte, North Carolina called Cowfish.
And they don't have, you know those restaurants that are really fun and themed and they don't have an actual like boys and girls sign on there. And you kind of have to guess because there's a character on the front of the door. And I have come close so many times to walking in the wrong restroom that now I have just decided to wait until someone comes out to determine which one is the appropriate one to walk into because I just don't want to walk into a situation that I'm going to be really embarrassed about. And there you go.
Cailah Garcia: I have a very funny story about this. Okay.
When my husband was meeting my extended family for the first time, we all went to breakfast and my husband, you know, we all sat, we all got our like coffee beverages and my husband's like, okay, I need to go to the bathroom. He steps away, goes to the bathroom and my Nana, I look over and she's like, oh, I'm going to go to the bathroom too. My Nana walks into the men's restroom and there's my future husband right there. And she's like, oh my gosh
And then she runs back to the table. She's like, just sits, doesn't say anything, is completely mortified. And my husband, now husband, comes back to the table and he just sits next to me and he's like, I can never show my face around your family ever again. And I was like, I don't know if this is going to work.
Kaley Olson: You know, I think if I could pick anybody, I would choose for it to be a grandmother. So there you go. I feel like that was the safest option.
Cailah Garcia: Yeah, I mean, she was mortified, but we got over it and she loved my husband to this day. So there you go. That's great.
Kaley Olson: Well, that was fun. Thank you for entertaining a little bit of a humorous moment for me. But in all seriousness...
Lysa, I know that coming close to Jesus doesn't happen by accident like a lot of these things do. It happens with intentionality. And so as I was thinking about your prayer book title and how my own prayer life is going right now and the conversations I'm having with friends, this is how it plays out.
we'll say something like, "I feel like I sense God is moving, but I really wish that He would be more clear." And I know the heart in this for me and for my friends is this deep desire to follow God's will.
But the difficulty is that it can make God seem really far away. Like we're here and he's there and there's this big mystery to what he's doing. And so I think a lot of people are actually right there. And so I wanted to ask you,
because this makes prayer seem so hard and we want to follow God, is there a simplicity that we're missing that's just a little bit more obvious? And what has this looked like for you?
Lysa TerKeurst: Right, well, if you think about what prayer actually is, is it's supposed to be a conversation with God. Both where we're talking and pouring out our heart, confessing, lamenting, you know, and asking and all of that. But then we're also supposed to have a time where we listen. And if we think about it more in terms of a conversation, then we remember both of those aspects. Because if you and I are having a conversation,
I have answers for you. I have, you know, all this stuff. So we're dialoguing, but you are also dialoguing. And so I think sometimes when we say that, it's because we are praying, but we can't really discern exactly what it is that God is saying.
Cailah Garcia: That's so good, Lysa.
Lysa TerKeurst: And so I think what we have to do is make sure that we are getting into God's word and letting God's word get into us because often the Holy Spirit speaks
using God's word, reminding us of God's word. And God's word is God speaking. And we can always trust that, you know, when we pray the word of God, we pray the will of God. So it's not just about us making sure that we're listening and that we have enough of God's word in us, but also it's very powerful to actually pull out scriptures that
are related to something we're facing, questions we're having, problems we're experiencing, and write those scriptures down and then literally pray those out loud. That's one of my favorite parts of Come Close to Jesus is that we filled the book with lots of good scriptures, some good short devotions as well, but also scriptural prayers.
that just have scripture after scripture after scripture tied together. So it's not so cumbersome for people to figure it out on their own.
Kaley Olson: Yeah, that's so good, Lysa. I know you've told me before, there's this prayer that you pray every day that kind of has helped you get into a rhythm of starting that conversation with God and seeing how He's moving through your day. So can you share that with our listeners here?
Lysa TerKeurst: Absolutely. So it's, God, I wanna see you.
God, I want to hear you. God, I want to know you. And God, I want to follow hard after you every day. And before my feet even hit the floor, I say yes to you today. I don't even know what I'm saying yes to, but I'm trusting, Lord, that you're going to bring the right message
the right people, the right challenges that I'm going to already need to have my heart prepared to say yes, because maybe my flesh won't want to be that courageous. And then I go into a time where I do present my requests to the Lord, you know, but then at the end of those requests, I always say, yeah, not what I want,
will, but what you will. And then I establish who God is. God, you are good. You are good to me and you are good at being God. Therefore, I'm safe enough to trade my will for thy will. And then at the end, I do something that is probably one of my favorite parts of this prayer. At the end, I say, now, Lord, will you show me today someone to forgive, someone to bless and open my eyes to evidence of your goodness and faithfulness all around me. And that is a prayer that God answers
every single day. Every day, someone's going to bump into my happy. That's pretty much every day. And, you know, when the Bible says to forgive, it's not just for the big, hard events in our life. Forgiveness is supposed to be a part of the everyday rhythm of our life. I mean, look at the Lord's prayer. You know, the Lord's prayer, there's so much around the topic of forgiveness in that prayer. It makes up the bulk of the second half of the
prayer. And so I don't think that forgiveness is just supposed to be like a one and done thing for us. I think it's the way that we're supposed to keep our hearts swept clean from the daily offenses that happen. But even better than that, because I'm praying this prayer in the morning, it's a great time to pre-forgive people. Like, Lord, I don't even know what offense is going to come my way today, but I'm already choosing to
live in a posture of forgiveness so that when that person or people hurt me, offend me, aggravate me, bother me, whatever it is, you know, I can simply say, okay, you're the person that I'm supposed to forgive today. I say this in my mind. I'm not saying it out loud.
Kaley Olson: Yeah.
Lysa TerKeurst: And then I think just because this person lays down an offense does not mean I have to pick it up and carry it with me and let it ruin the rest of my day. So I'm already prepared. My therapist, Jim Cress says, prepare in times of strength for coming times of struggle. And that's the way I do that. And then the second thing after show me someone to forgive is show me someone to bless. And this gets me so eager looking for the hand of God's activity all the time.
around me. You know, sometimes we're praying big prayers about certain things and it can almost get exhausting, you know, when there's some kind of an event or some kind of desire or some kind of dynamic in a relationship that we have and we have
prayed ad nauseum about this. And we're not exactly seeing the obvious answer that we've asked God for. And maybe it doesn't even seem as if God's hearing us or God's listening. That God is always doing something. We don't serve a do nothing God. But if we've asked for someone to get delivered of an addiction, let's use that as an example.
And they're worse off today than when we started praying that prayer. It can start to really rattle us. And we can think, God, where are you? Like, I know you love me and I know you're good, but why aren't you being good to me in this? And don't you see, God, how good this would be? So I'm assuming that I know what a good God should do. And when we have those barriers,
- Big, in our mind, we would say unanswered prayers. It's not that they're really unanswered. It's that we haven't seen the answer that we want yet. And it starts to rattle our faith. It's really, really good to pray a prayer that God, you know God's gonna answer every day. And so when I say, God, show me someone to bless,
That is a prayer he answers every day. Every single day, someone comes across my path that needs a little bit of my time, a little bit of my attention, a little bit of my encouragement, maybe even a little bit of money, something. And when I meet that person, and it happens every day, I remember that the
presence of God is here and where the presence of God is, the power of God is. And so even though I don't see obvious answers with this big prayer, I'm reminded of his presence in this daily prayer. And then the last one is open my eyes to all the evidence around me of your goodness and faithfulness, because the more we look for it, the more we will see it. Matthew 5, 6 says, blessed are the pure in heart for they believe.
will see God. And I think this prayer at the end, the prayer that I pray, I think is one way that I can do that.
Kaley Olson: Yeah, man, that's so good.
Cailah, I was just thinking that, I don't know, sometimes I get so discouraged looking at social media and just like the tone of culture these days is almost kind of like,
at somebody who has faith in a deep relationship with the Lord. But I love what you just shared about Matthew, was it Matthew 5, 8, where it was like pure in heart. Pure in heart, yeah. What if that pureness was the goal? That kind of like innocence where, you know, sometimes you can look at somebody and be like, oh, I can't believe that they actually believe that or I can't believe that they love the Lord that much. But I think that's purity in heart. And I think that's,
what you said about praying every day for God to show you something is something that he's gonna answer. And there's kind of like this both and. We can't just bring the big prayers before God. And if we do, we're constantly gonna be discouraged that yeah, he's not answering a timeframe that we want, but that's not all God is up to. And I think by praying,
doing something like what you're doing and inviting the Lord into every day that allows us to build that trust and to open our eyes where maybe over-spiritualizing it is actually the point sometimes. Like he, it is more real than we think it is. It's more, he's more every day than we think he is. He's up to so much, not just one thing. And I think that that,
That's so helpful for me. I mean, it's been a long time since we've had this conversation about prayer, but hearing it in a fresh way, it's just so, so good.
Lysa TerKeurst: And we have to remember too, when Jesus taught us to pray in Matthew chapter six, he said, this is then how you should pray. And he started it off by establishing who God is, you know, and like,
I just think that that is so amazing, how great God is, how we need to pour out our heart and respect God. But then after he establishes who God is, our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Right after that, we start getting into the...
prayer where Jesus is like, okay, Lord, now give us today our daily bread. And I think that that's a very intentional phrase for two reasons. Number one, it's daily. You know, when he says give us today our daily bread, I think that's very, very important for us to remember that
daily part. But I also think it's important for us to remember the bread part. You see, in John, Jesus, one of the first I am statements, it might even be the first I am statement, where Jesus is saying, you know, I am the fulfillment of
of all that God said. You know, in Exodus, when God says, you know, Moses says, who should I say sent me? And God says, I am. I think it's in Exodus. We'll look that up. But it almost seems like when he says it to a human, it feels like a little bit of an incomplete sentence. But what God's saying is, I am, period.
Kaley Olson: Yeah.
Lysa TerKeurst: Now, when Jesus comes on the scene and, well, Jesus was on the scene back then. Jesus has always been. But when we see Jesus talking in John about the I am statement, he is the fulfillment of that. So these seven I am statements from the book of John are really important. And the first of
I am the bread of life. So we talked about the dailiness of it, but now the bread part is really important because sometimes our soul is starving. And the only thing that can reach our soul is the word of God and the prayers that we pray. And so just like when we take in nourishment for our physical bodies,
You know, if we don't take in food for our physical bodies, then we will start experiencing hunger pains. We'll be lightheaded, all this. When our soul is starting to starve and in desperate need of our daily bread, we also have signals in our body that our soul is starving. But so many times we turn to other things.
things to quiet that desperation. And that gets us into a lot of trouble. And so part of that, give us today our daily bread. Give us today, Lord, what we need to fill those deep places of our soul so that we don't stay in a state of starvation where we're grabbing for things of the world that can never reach or satisfy the depths of what God can.
Kaley Olson: Yeah, that. Yeah.
The other day in staff meeting at Proverbs, you talked about manna. And I think that there is such a connectedness to manna in the wilderness. It was in, I don't know what chapter, maybe Exodus that you were talking about, where the Lord had led them out and they had nothing except Him. And He had to provide that. And I think that what you were talking about,
and there's the prayers that we pray every day show up for me today. But then also the prayers that were like, Lord, this is hard. I need you to come through in this way. Only God knows exactly what we need today. And unless we're opening our hands to that in prayer, we're not gonna be able to receive what it is for that day. Exactly.
Lysa TerKeurst: And, you know, one part of the manna that I think people overlook is the children of Israel were coming from Egypt. And in Egypt, they were constantly looking down for the ground to provide their food. When they're in the desert, they don't.
Now the Lord is teaching them to lift their head to Him and the food is coming from above. So it's more than just God raining sweet potato flakes called manna down. But it's also the lifting of the people's head to not be so self-sufficient, but to be God dependent.
Kaley Olson: Wow. Amen.
Cailah Garcia: Mic drop.
Kaley Olson: Well, no, that's so good. It's such a reminder. Like the Bible says that we can't, we're not gonna find what we need in the world. You know, like if we set our eyes, we have to set our eyes on those things above. That's so good. I lift my eyes to the hills. I know where my help comes from. Yes. So good. My help comes from the Lord. This is so good, Lysa. I...
And we only have a few minutes left to talk about this. And so I took to the YouTube audience and I said, "Hey, we're gonna be recording a podcast on prayer soon. What questions do you have around prayer?" And so I love that we've talked about the daily obedience side of it. We've talked about that rhythm, but now I want to ask you this question that a listener asked.
She said, I often wonder if I'm hearing God or if I'm just hearing myself. How do I know? And I'm like, me too. Lysa, what do you have to say?
Cailah Garcia: Put some handles for this question.
Lysa TerKeurst: Well, this is gonna be attention to manage, not a problem to solve. Because I mean, it's gonna be hard sometimes. And I think we are supposed to wrestle. I think this wrestling is actually a good activity for us to do.
But here's what we have to remember, a good filter to put our thoughts through is, is what I'm hearing, is it consistent with God's word? Is it consistent with God's ways? Is it consistent with God's will? And you may say, well, how am I supposed to know His will if I knew His will that I wouldn't even be asking this question, right? But I think we have to remember that
His will is gonna be revealed to us, not just in His word, but it'll be confirmed by messages that we're hearing, by a song that pops on the radio. You know, God is very present. He's not waiting to be found by us, right? It's not like we have to like try so hard to figure it out, but He wants to be seen by us. He wants to be with us. And that is the point. The point is to be with Him. And you know what? Every now
we might get it wrong. And that's where God's grace is. But if our heart is, Lord, I want to please you. So please, Lord, give me relief for my unbelief. Give me clear thoughts. Give me a heart pure before you. And honestly, I find that the more I'm honest with myself about desiring what God wants rather than demanding my own way, then often what I'm hearing, it is from Him.
And now, of course, if I'm in a situation where my heart's like, this is the only outcome that I will accept, well, then my thoughts may be a little more self-centered than God-centered, you know? But I think we'll know. And sometimes I think we overcomplicate it where we're like, is it this or is it this? Sometimes I think God says, it's either. You get to choose, you know?
but choose what you feel will honor God the most. And if we get it wrong, there's grace for that. –
Kaley Olson: Yeah, I agree. And I think there's something too about inviting in wise counsel.
when you've already worked through it with God. And that's an order that I feel like I've gotten wrong so many times in my life where I'm feeling a nudge and I go immediately to people who I know are wise and who love the Lord, but they're not God. And I end up more confused because one person might say this and another person might say this. And that is such, I feel like that can be a stronghold in people's lives who the heart's desire is to do God's will. But
work through it with him first and then prayerfully invite people in at the appropriate time to maybe not even get an answer. Like sometimes I found myself saying, I'm not, I don't want an answer from you. I just want you to know where I am right now because I need some accountability as I wrestle with the Lord through this so that you can make sure that I'm taking steps of obedience that I feel like I need to take. Here's what I'm working through. Can you check in?
with me once a week. And I think that that is important as well.
Lysa TerKeurst: And if you think about it, like think about it in terms of your children. You know, when your children, you know your children, the times where they have a heart of rebellion or when they have a heart where they legitimately want to do the right thing, but they just aren't quite sure what it is. You know, when their heart posture is soft and tender and relaxed,
humble and desiring to be obedient to you, are you really gonna get them mad if they get something wrong? Are you really gonna get like infuriated with them when they get something wrong? I mean, we may correct them, but I think we're delighted by their purity in heart. And I think God looks at us the same way.
Kaley Olson: Yeah, I agree. I agree. He's a good and loving father. I agree. Okay, Cailah, do you have one question to wrap us up with?
Cailah Garcia: I do, I do. So Lysa-
for the woman who feels spiritually tired or unsure where to begin, what would you want her to know about Jesus before she ever opens this book or starts to pray today?
Lysa TerKeurst: I think that's such a good question. First of all, I think sometimes we just need to take a deep breath and we need to remind ourselves, Jesus loves me. And He gave His very life to forgive me of my sins.
Sometimes it can feel like to the human heart that if we are sinning or if we have sinned or we're carrying shame or regret about some past decision that we've made, that it's almost like we shy away and we're like, yeah, Jesus doesn't want to come close to me because I've done this or a person like me because this is part of my past or whatever.
And it's like, no, Jesus came close to you on the cross. He saw you. He saw every bit of you. And he said, she's worth dying for. And he allowed himself to be hung on a cross and to stay there because of his great love for you. So there is nothing that will separate us from that kind of love.
And it doesn't take us getting all cleaned up and have our thoughts all straight and have our life all straight and have our bank account all tidy and our house all organized before like, okay, now we're at a place where we feel like we can come close to Jesus. No, Jesus is there. All we have to do is turn to him and he's right there.
Cailah Garcia: I love in scripture where it talks about him always taking the first step toward us. And I love in scripture where it talks about we love because he first took us.
loved us.
Lysa TerKeurst: That's right.
Cailah Garcia: He first loved us. He gave the example. He showed up and stepped in the gap so that we could have a relationship with him so we could exist in harmony and in eternity with him. And I think that's such a beautiful picture of not only this book, but God's heart for us.
Kaley Olson: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Cailah, I agree. I was just thinking about how at Proverbs 31, we don't
write content at least when you're writing books and things like that you don't write your books or your prayer journals like this in a cave in a silo um with this expert mind you write it thinking about where's the woman right now like what what's she going through and I think what you said um just a minute ago Jesus loves you and you don't have to have your life cleaned up
and your act together in the perfect words to come to him is such a great place to land today's conversation. Because this book, it is what to pray when you need the Lord to still your thoughts, calm your heart and guide your way. And I'm just thinking there's somebody out there who is,
a little jumbled up in the head. And it's like, man, I want to come close to Jesus. I know that, I hear that, but I just don't even know where to start. And I just wanna say to you, pick up your Bible and pick this up because there's, when you don't know what to pray, there's prayers in here about grief and processing all the things that
you're processing right now in life ready for you. And I feel like this is such a helpful resource that is gonna be a catalyst for so many women or maybe even men to just take that next step and learn how to come close to Jesus and develop that daily dependence on the Lord. So I'm excited to read it. I wanted to let our listeners, and our viewers know that we're gonna link it in the show notes below for you to get your hands on.
Cailah Garcia: Well, friends, that is all for today. Thank you so much Lysa for joining our conversation I think this was so special! Well here at Proverbs 31 ministries we believe that when you know the truth and live the truth it really does change everything.