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We need a new definition of success—one that harmonizes meaning and money.
Imagine diving into your workday with renewed energy, leaving behind the exhaustion or dread of a monotonous grind.
Traditional beliefs about success and the root cause of burnout are the same:
Prove yourself.
Work harder.
Take care of the business, and it will take care of you.
We’re recycling the mindset and practices that keep us stuck. Our souls need a jumpstart into The Age of Humanity.
Tune in for a new way of working that honors our nervous system and the bottom line, using knowledge of the brain, the Bible, and business. We’ll discuss timeless truths that amplify growth, ignite change, and reshape the world of work. No corporate speak or business BS. Let’s get to the heart of a rewarding career and profitable growth.
We speak human about business.
What’s in it for You?
Value, Relevance, and Impact (VRI): No, it's not a new tech gadget—it's your ticket to making your work genuinely matter to you and your company.
Human-Centric Insights: We prioritize people over profits without sacrificing the bottom line. Think less "cog in the machine" and more "humans helping humans."
I'm your host, Rebecca Fleetwood Hesson, your thrive guide leading you into the new Age of Humanity. I’ve navigated the highs and lows of business and life, from achieving over $40 million in sales, teaching thousands of people around the world about leadership, trust, execution, and productivity to facing burnout, divorce, raising a couple of great humans (one with ADHD), and navigating the uncertainty of starting a business.
I’m committed to igniting change in the world by jumpstarting business into profitable growth with the timeless truths of our humanity.
Sound crazy? It’s only crazy until it works.
Hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and leave a review to help other listeners discover our show.
Want insight and advice on your real career and business challenges? Connect with me on social media or email me at rebecca@wethrive.live. Your story could spark our next conversation.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:00:10]:
That welcome back to the Business is Human podcast, where we discuss strategies to increase our VRI value, relevance, and impact. We're here to blend meaningful work with profitable success. I'm your host, Rebecca Fleetwood Hession, here to steward what we call the age of humanity, to transform the way we work so we can transform the way that we live. As always, my friendly request. If you like what you hear, hit subscribe so you don't miss any episodes, and then leave a review to tell the other humans that they might like it too. Always looking to help you and connect with others. Let's get into it, shall we? Welcome back to part two with my.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:00:54]:
Interview with Sarah Gormley, author of the book The Order of Things: A Memoir About Chasing Joy. And if you missed last week's episode, it's basically me hitting record and then just rambling. Lots of emotions about how this book impacted me and less of an interview with the author. So in this part two, I allow Sarah to talk a whole lot more.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:01:19]:
But I want to read to you the back of this book, the back.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:01:22]:
Cover, because I think it just shares perfectly what this is all about. It says, sometimes nothing is more unexpected than joy. What happens when a marketing executive leaves San Francisco to care for her dying mother? On their family farm in Ohio, a hallmark hero would fall in love with her high school sweetheart during a snowstorm. But this is no hallmark movie. Sarah Gormley spent most of her life trying to outrun the persistent self loathing that plagued her from childhood, convinced that self worth was something she had to earn by doing rather than being. When she returned to Salt Creek Farm at age 45, Gormley had no idea that detaching from the success she believed defined her. Untangling the complicated relationship with her mother and continuing the hard work of therapy would lead to a wildly transformed life. Told with exceptional candor and humor, the order of things is a story about how one woman learned to let go of the patterns of her past to create a future she never imagined.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:02:25]:
Ultimately, Gormley's book is about hope, with a powerful message that will inspire you to think about the possibility of change in your own life. And y'all, that's exactly what it is. I read it in one sitting, and I hope that you, based on last week's episode, went ahead and bought it and read it and now are ready to hear from Sarah. And if you didn't have that's okay, you can still order it today.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:02:51]:
Here we go. Well, now that we're halfway through or more of this episode, I just. Yay. I love you. I love your story. But tell our listeners, what is your background, your career background that we've been alluding to so mysteriously in opening here? Walk us through all the titles and all the big stuff, like, share the background first.
Sarah Gormley [00:03:16]:
It was a different time. We're of an age. My parents encouraged me to go to undergrad and study what I wanted to study. And I was an avid reader and writer from a young age. So I was an english lit major. I went to DePaul University, which is like a gem of a liberal arts institution. But I didn't know. I had no plan.
Sarah Gormley [00:03:37]:
I had zero plan. English lit major, got the grades, and blah, blah, blah. And I ended up getting into this program at the University of Chicago business school. So as soon as I came, I graduated, I went to Chicago and started business school classes, which was hilarious, because there I was, this little dipshit, funny two year old with these, like, investment.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:04:01]:
Banker consultants, Brooks from the Midwest, from.
Sarah Gormley [00:04:05]:
Ohio, and they put their investment banking. They did what they were supposed to do. They were analysts for x number of years. And then you go to business school, and they were like, what are you doing? So that was an interesting experience, because I thought, like, I just decided I was pragmatic. I was like, well, I guess I need to go into the business world because I need to pay my bill. So there was no, like, I love x. I just started. And I started at a PR firm, which is still one of the best in the country, Edelman.
Sarah Gormley [00:04:34]:
And, you know, I understood investor relations and financials, and so I was. The subject matter of the work wasn't the most scintillating, but I was good at it because I was good at everything. And so I just kept doing the things. And then I moved to New York. New York was always the goal and another big agency. Then I took a little hiatus and worked at a ranch. Cause I was like, what am I doing? Is this it?
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:04:58]:
Here's what it felt like. Reading this is that your intelligence allows you to study almost anything and figure it out. And because of your upbringing, all the things you went there, you're like, I gotta prove myself. I'm gonna study and learn, and I'm gonna get good grades, and that's gonna make me a good person. And not bud, but. And the call in your soul was always this artist spirit who was like, I just. I've done the financial thing. I gotta go to the ranch for a while and, like, cleanse my palate or something is the way it feels.
Sarah Gormley [00:05:33]:
And I didn't. I didn't think that I would stay at the ranch forever. I think my parents thought I was like, go joining the band of gypsies. And once I got out there, I was like, oh, I really miss New York. I'll go back. Then I went in house financial services again, and it was kind of like. I mean, I was succeeding. It wasn't occurring to me that a job should be more fulfilling or not.
Sarah Gormley [00:05:58]:
I was just climbing. And then the real career breakthrough, I would say, was with IMac. So I worked at IMAX for.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:06:05]:
And theaters.
Sarah Gormley [00:06:07]:
Yeah, they make films and distribute films. The CEO, Rich Gelfand, is now a dear friend, but that's kind of where I grew up career wise. I went from kind of being a senior junior person to the person he called in to discuss how we're gonna handle this crisis or that or, you.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:06:26]:
Know, you have it, which is a nice mix of your artist heartland and your strategy.
Sarah Gormley [00:06:33]:
Right? I was getting closer to creativity, and then probably a mistake looking back, but a really pivotal moment was that I had, was in one role, and I put a proposal together for rich that I was like, this is the role I want at this company. Bigger role, more responsibility. And I put so much effort into the whys and the strategy behind it delivered it to him. And he didn't say, oh, my God, yes, and here's a race, right? He was like, let me think about that. Let me digest that. He's a CEO, right? He has other executives to think about. And it didn't happen in the timeline I thought was going to indicate how great I was. So I was pissed.
Sarah Gormley [00:07:19]:
And honestly, the next, it was like, I gave him, like a week and he didn't come back. And like a week later, a recruiter from Martha Stewart called, and I was like, look, Martha Stewart wants me.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:07:30]:
I mean, it was so stupid.
Sarah Gormley [00:07:33]:
But he encouraged me not to take the job. Even after I had it. He was like, sarah, do not make this move. I will help you find another job.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:07:42]:
You know, oh, that's a good. That's a humble person. It's not even, stay with me. But I will help you find something else. Ooh, I love that humility.
Sarah Gormley [00:07:50]:
And then I was like, no, I.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:07:53]:
Got something to prove. You didn't love.
Sarah Gormley [00:07:56]:
You know, she's going to love me. Well, it's not the case. So anyway.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:08:01]:
But Snoop Dogg. Cause I've known other people that have worked for her. So, anyway, we digress.
Sarah Gormley [00:08:06]:
And then I was very thoughtful about the next thing, because that's who I am. Like, you know, pretty intentionally went to a nonprofit because I didn't have nonprofit experience. I was like, look, if I'm gonna be a board member one day, it would be good to round out my career and have this nonprofit experience.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:08:22]:
Always looking for the hole in the resume that you need to fill up.
Sarah Gormley [00:08:26]:
And I'll get the CMO title, which I did. Right. And so, you know, it was all kind of very strategic. And then Adobe bigger, better. And here's the deal. I had started therapy, but before I went to Adobe.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:08:41]:
Okay.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:08:42]:
Yeah.
Sarah Gormley [00:08:42]:
And I knew what was going on, and part of me knew, you are just repeating the pattern. You're chasing. Bigger title, bigger salary. PS, you were moving across the country and leaving all of your friends. But I just didn't know what else.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:08:56]:
To do because the patterns in our brains, same equals safe in the way that our brain processes information. And so your brain was fighting what the new learning was in therapy. Your subconscious was fighting that, going, girl, you're fine. This is what we do. We climb the ladder. We'll be fine. We go do this thing. And the therapy, new pattern of your life was going, wait a minute.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:09:21]:
Just pick somebody and tell us not to do this.
Sarah Gormley [00:09:24]:
And I'm telling you, I don't even say this in the book because it didn't have. I didn't have the right chaptering for it. But before I moved to San Francisco, I told David, my therapist, like, we're good. We've done what I wanted to accomplish. Off I go. And he has said, he was like, I knew you'd be back. Off I go to San Francisco for another big job, but wasn't going to do what I needed to do. And sure enough, a year into it, my father passes away and back with David during the therapy, you know, so it just.
Sarah Gormley [00:09:57]:
I don't regret any of those steps because I met and worked with the most amazing individuals. I miss that camaraderie. I miss teamwork. I just missed some of the, like, hostility from CEO's. You commiserate after. Can you fucking believe that?
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:10:15]:
Cause that's bonding. You know, you bond overdose. Shared disdain.
Sarah Gormley [00:10:19]:
Oh, yeah. The knowing glances around the conference table like, are you kidding me?
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:10:23]:
That's community. Yeah, that's community.
Sarah Gormley [00:10:27]:
The path. And, you know, again, I work for some amazing brands and with amazing people, so, you know, no regrets there.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:10:38]:
Tell our listeners the catalyst of the first therapy appointment when you knew you needed to explore some change in your life.
Sarah Gormley [00:10:48]:
Well, the first one was when I was 29.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:10:54]:
Oh, yeah. That was.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:10:55]:
That was not a good experience.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:10:56]:
And I share that one.
Sarah Gormley [00:10:58]:
No, I mean, because you cannot believe that this man said this to me.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:11:01]:
So you've got to share this. Yes.
Sarah Gormley [00:11:02]:
I knew I was struggling. I had some of these demons. I wasn't sure what to call it. I felt like shit about myself, but it wanted to fix it. Like, I'll fix it. So I find a therapist near my apartment because that seemed convenient. And I walk in. I know exactly what I was wearing.
Sarah Gormley [00:11:17]:
A black and white wrap dress from Bergdorf's, but it was from, like, the clearance rack. And he was like, well, Sarah, you're thin and attractive. What could be the problem? And I was like, whoa, maybe isn't the right fit.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:11:30]:
Does that bother you to share what year? You already said how old you were, so you don't have to.
Sarah Gormley [00:11:34]:
52. I was 29. So it must have been 2001 or 2002. I don't know, a long time ago, so.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:11:43]:
But I say that because it really wasn't that long ago. That a message that sounds so crass and ridiculous today wasn't that long ago.
Sarah Gormley [00:11:54]:
I know. And I went back a second time, and he called me the wrong name, and I was like, that's it. We're done.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:11:58]:
We're out. Yeah.
Sarah Gormley [00:11:59]:
But I wasn't ready. So then, fast forward. I was 29. Then I celebrate my 40th birthday with my DePau girls, my besties, and none of them knew the extent to which I was suffering. And I remember just going to bed with these tears coming out of my cheeks, rolling down my cheeks, and I was like, I got to do something. I can't feel this way for 40 more years because I'm wasting my life. And reached out to a friend's mother who's a therapist, and she recommended David, and that's how that started.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:12:33]:
So the whole catalyst was, I just don't feel good. I don't know why I don't feel good, but I don't. I want to feel better.
Sarah Gormley [00:12:42]:
The catalyst was pain.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:12:44]:
Yeah.
Sarah Gormley [00:12:45]:
Excruciating pain.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:12:46]:
And it's important to note that we as women, suppress pain and allow it to get really harmful to our bodies and our lives, oftentimes before we address it. And so the one message I want listeners to take from your story is, you're not the only one that's in pain. And there's no shame in going and getting the help if your life doesn't feel like you want it to feel. We'll help you find somebody to go figure that out.
Sarah Gormley [00:13:14]:
And also, maybe you don't have to get to the point where it's that excruciating, right? And I didn't know what to call it. And guess what? It looked great on the surface, right, for listeners. You know, you're creating a life that everybody envies. Everybody thinks you have it all going on because you're thin and attractive and your husband's handsome and your children are going to the right schools.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:13:36]:
But that was my story. I had two children, two dogs, a 23 acre estate with a 5000 square foot house and I worked for a really reputable organization and what could possibly be wrong with me?
Sarah Gormley [00:13:50]:
And then you feel guilty that you're not more fulfilled. Yes. And you find all the reasons to convince yourself that this should be enough and you can do that for 20 fucking years and you're not going to get them back. So that was really the driver. And I will also say that I was scared to death to go to therapy because I thought, this is hilarious. Now, I thought a therapist might say, well, that's just. This is it, Sarah. This is just how you're going.
Sarah Gormley [00:14:19]:
Like, this is just life. I mean, if he says that, I don't really know what my plan will be. But therapists say because they are good at their jobs.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:14:29]:
Now, what if a professional validates that this is as good as it gets?
Sarah Gormley [00:14:33]:
And I was like, then what do I do?
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:14:37]:
If there's no hope, what will I do?
Sarah Gormley [00:14:40]:
Yeah. So I was really pretty reluctant. Had the email drafted, hit send, you know, he was like, let's meet next week.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:14:49]:
And then over a series of fortunate and unfortunate events over time. You today own and run an art gallery in Ohio near where you grew up. There's a lot of life that happened between David's therapy office and today. And I don't want to give too much of it away because I want people to buy this book and read it in one sitting with a glass of wine or a cup of coffee. Like, let's not share it all. Listen, ladies and gentlemen, this book is one I want you to read. But for our listeners to be inspired to do so, some of the highlight reel that you want to share with our listeners today.
Sarah Gormley [00:15:39]:
I went from a pretty successful, high powered marketing executive who looked like she had it all and didn't. The timeline is shocking. I'll just say it so you know this from the beginning, but within a period of about two and a half years, you know, lost both parents, moved home to Ohio, dropped out of corporate life. Fell in love for the first time in a healthy, meaningful, adult relationship. Like, how does that story.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:16:09]:
I love the background. It's so cheesy.
Sarah Gormley [00:16:11]:
And then I live in Columbus, Ohio. I never thought I'd come back to Ohio. And I own an art gallery, and now I've written a book. It's like, who in the hell are you? And it's not all fun all the time, but it's just like, I cannot believe that this is my life because my body still remembers what it felt like before. Your body holds on to things.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:16:34]:
I want to pause on that. That's important, because I do think that through movies and music, we want to believe in the fairy tale ending. And while things are beautiful and better and dreamy in so many ways, your body does hang on to patterns of the past. And it tries to lie to you that what you're feeling now is wrong. And it is that same equals safe homeostasis, subconscious part of your nervous system that I still will be walking in the woods leisurely at 915 from my morning routine that I've been doing religiously for eight years, since I started this business. And sometimes I will have, like, this panicked feeling of, you're late, you're in trouble. Somebody's going to wonder why you're meandering in the woods when you should be more serious about your career. Like, it still happens to me, and I have to stop and go, oh, no, no.
Sarah Gormley [00:17:40]:
Right? Well, I had one, and I wrote about this on LinkedIn. So the book comes out, and it got this glowing Kirkus review that really doesn't happen. They're usually just balanced, and it was like, oh, Jesus. Like, maybe it's good. Like, I think it's good.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:17:57]:
Which is just as scary as it being bad.
Sarah Gormley [00:17:59]:
Well, for three weeks, I was struggling, and I don't think of a person who has anxiety. But what happened was I was really scared that I was being sucked into the success vortex. Because you have measures with a book. You know that there are sales numbers and there are reviews. And I was like, oh, God, I. Oh, no, I've lost. I'm losing myself again to the gold stars. And it took two therapy specialists.
Sarah Gormley [00:18:30]:
I was like, david.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:18:31]:
Thank you, David.
Sarah Gormley [00:18:32]:
Great. Thank you, David.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:18:33]:
I love that you're meeting with David now in the car, in the parking lot of, like, those supermarket outside of Europe, but when you were at the.
Sarah Gormley [00:18:41]:
Farm, calls and digress. But he's coming to the New York event, and I'm like, I'm going to make the room, get him the stand innovation. Like, he doesn't that hard, but we all love him. We love David. So anyway, so I talked to David. I'm like, oh, Jesus, I've done it to myself again. He was like, sarah, let's hold on a second. What were you chasing before? And I was like, titles, salaries, right? Like, team size, international responsibility, you know, whatever.
Sarah Gormley [00:19:06]:
And he was like, what are we trying to do now? And I was like, put a book I wrote out into the world.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:19:13]:
Like, I don't know the right answer.
Sarah Gormley [00:19:15]:
Sell art. And he was like, okay, do we feel like maybe those are things that you're entitled to want to do and be, quote unquote, successful with? And I was like, yes, but it was what you were saying. It's like my body was resisting this feeling of chasing success because I had done it for so long in a negative light. So I have to check in. And I. Again, we could talk forever, but I have some body stuff that has come back, right.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:19:48]:
It keeps the score. That's a great book if somebody has it.
Sarah Gormley [00:19:52]:
But, you know, menopause, I think menopause might be especially difficult for any woman who's had an ed. And I was ashamed to tell my own therapist that I was having some stuff. And then once I talked to them about it and we talked for it, you know, it helps. It's like taking the lid off of the boiling pot and look at it be like, we got this. We can handle it. So anyway, it's not homework. It is messy.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:20:16]:
And for our listeners who haven't read the book, ed eating disorder from your childhood, and it's all in here, and it's all told in such a. You're a great writer, too.
Sarah Gormley [00:20:27]:
I mean, thank you.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:20:29]:
Beautiful, beautiful writer. And I want people to read men and women to read this book. The good news is, to me is that you felt the pull of the success factors and did the pause button and said, hold on, let me just process this and make sure I'm not.
Sarah Gormley [00:20:46]:
Yeah, let's check in and make sure you're not going too far back in or that you feel like you're approaching things in a healthier way.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:20:56]:
Yeah. Yeah. To me, that is what I call my new definition of success, which is me checking in with. Is this the right path for me in my world, following God's call on my life? Am I checking in with. With myself about what my life's supposed to be? I think is the ultimate, because we're not meant to just have the same chapter of our story over and over and over, like we've been told. And I believe, I mean, I'm 58, I'm currently an executive coach, a keynote speaker and author. But next week, if I want to go and run a farm retreat center in Tennessee, I'm damn well going to do it right, because that's the next chapter of my story, possibly, or whatever else gets dropped in my spirit. I'm not afraid to pivot, as they say in the corporate world, a lot of pivoting.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:21:52]:
I experienced what you're talking about, about the gold star idea. When I had first started the podcast, I'd never. That's something I'd never done before. And at my age, doing something new is hard to come by. I've done a lot of weird things and experienced a lot of things. It was this new world that I was in, which has new metrics, which has new success factors, which has all these newness, that besides learning how the microphone works, I'm learning how the world of podcasting works. And people would say to me, well, how many downloads do you have? How many listeners do you have? What are your stats? And at first it felt irresponsible not to know those things because I ran strategy and execution for one of the greatest consulting firms in the world. Shouldn't I know my stats? And when I checked in with myself, I said, much like you're experiencing in that world, did you do this for the stats, or did you do it because you love to tell people stories? And that's what it has said in your journal since you were twelve, that you just want to share people's stories.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:22:52]:
Like, if that's why we're doing it, then we don't care if five or 50,000 people tune in. You're doing what you said you want to do. And I refuse to look at stats for a long time.
Sarah Gormley [00:23:02]:
Bigger than me.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:23:04]:
Listen, it didn't happen overnight. I'm saying that that's the trajectory that I can now say that I'm living in a more successful way for myself because I'm able to process it. I didn't start there. No.
Sarah Gormley [00:23:19]:
Yes, the book has exceeded every expectation I had. But now that it is resonating, and I know what the preorder numbers are, and there's the marketer in me is like, let's give it every chance we can, right? It's like a product. It's like, okay, if you're launching a product, you're going to try to set it up for success. And so Tuesday, September 10 is the publication date. And then I think I'll have a little exhale, and it's like, let the book do the work. You know, it's all been word of mouth pretty much so far, and I love that it's resonating with people. That's the highest compliment. So thank you.
Sarah Gormley [00:24:01]:
I learn when I speak with people as well because of the smart questions. And then I'm like, I don't know. I haven't thought about it that way.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:24:08]:
I believe that success for this book is you riding the wave of this story, because getting it into the hands and the hearts and the minds of. Of many people is a gift.
Sarah Gormley [00:24:25]:
Well, thank you.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:24:26]:
So it's not about the numbers. It's about how many people probably need to hear it and read it.
Sarah Gormley [00:24:32]:
It's fun. It's a little bit overwhelming at times, but I'm pretty convinced that I just want to have as much fun as I can, and I'm proud of it. I'm super. Like, that is the book I intended to write. It took a long time, but editing was challenging, but I'm proud of it. And, you know, now I will have a book on my coffee table with my name on it. So check gold star.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:24:56]:
I'll help you write more because, like I said, you are a beautiful writer. I hope there are other stories that need to be.
Sarah Gormley [00:25:02]:
I have released from you book percolating, so. And I want to write a second one because I think the process will be a lot more enjoyable.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:25:14]:
It is. I'm writing my second one now. It is so much less uncertainty and.
Sarah Gormley [00:25:19]:
Yeah, and I put so much pressure on myself. Surprise. On the first one. And now I'm like, you can just write what you want to write and then go back and move things around. So I'd like to do that again kind of for myself. And several readers have asked. They're like, when do I learn more?
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:25:37]:
I'm like, okay, yeah, put me on the list. Oh, my gosh, I will. You just come back when you start to write the next book and tease us a little with what's happening. Like, I sure. I just feel like we're kindred spirits in so many ways, and I'm so I'm gonna have to make a trip to Ohio to come to the gallery, and we'll have classes, and I have.
Sarah Gormley [00:25:56]:
Some book events at the gallery from time to time. And, you know, it's. It's the entrepreneurial thing. I'm like, it's my gallery. I can do whatever fuck I want, so I just do what I want.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:26:06]:
Tell our listeners the name of your gallery. They may be in Ohio or put you on their list of trips for this fall. Where are you? What's the name of it?
Sarah Gormley [00:26:14]:
Sarah Gormley Gallery. Creative branding branding expert. Right. Like, oh, how about Sarah Gormley Gallery? Great. That works downtown Columbus.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:26:24]:
Downtown Columbus, Ohio, which is a vibrant. I mean, that city has grown into something pretty amazing.
Sarah Gormley [00:26:31]:
It still is. But all last year was the fastest growing city in the country. And it's like, there's a lot happening, but I just love it. And the other gallery owners here have been so welcoming. It's a kind of city, maybe not dissimilar to Indianapolis, but you can network, people are supportive and the cliche of Midwest, nice. Sorry, people are nice, and they want you to succeed. What is happening?
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:26:58]:
Amen, sister. Amen. Yeah. Columbus, Ohio was when I first started Franklin Covey. That was my first regional office location. So I was there often and I watched some of the growing of it, and it is a beautiful, big little city.
Sarah Gormley [00:27:15]:
Come visit anytime. I'm here.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:27:18]:
All right, so The Order of Things: A Memoir About Chasing Joy. Sarah Gormley. Buy it. Set aside the entire afternoon to just dig into it and you will not be disappointed.
Sarah Gormley [00:27:32]:
Sorry about the tears. There's apparently some crying that goes on when you read it and laughter.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:27:38]:
So, yeah, yeah, I just am sitting here, like, thinking about the book going, yeah, and then there was that one part, and then when you met him, and then, like, when you were like, oh, my gosh, I think I like him. Like, you literally, like, you go from this, like, corporate story and then this, like, you're taking care of your mother and, you know, it's her last days and you're getting like, you think you're reading a novel because it just has that emotional hook. And then you have those moments while you're reading it where you're like, oh, this is her story.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:28:11]:
This is real.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:28:13]:
And that's. Okay. I'm gonna go off on another tangent. We need to end this and just.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:28:17]:
Have people come by the book and.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:28:19]:
Then come back and tell us what they thought about it.
Sarah Gormley [00:28:21]:
I would love that. Buy the book, write a review if you have the energy. So you do Goodreads first, and then I'll remind you next week to just copy and paste it onto Amazon. That's the, like, behind the scenes hustle.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:28:34]:
I forgot. Yeah, I forgot. Yeah. Okay, goodreads going in. I'm going to do it today. And everybody can buy the book when.
Sarah Gormley [00:28:42]:
They can order it. Right now. I don't know when the podcast is going live, but they can order it everywhere September 10 and I also I've already been requested and have committed to doing several book clubs, some in person, some zooming in.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:28:56]:
So if we go to Sarah Gormley.com, will we learn about things there?
Sarah Gormley [00:29:01]:
Yes. Yes. Sarah Gormley.com. instagram is SCg 1255. All the social links are on the website so you can find me. I'm infinitely findable.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:29:14]:
Thank you for being you and I'm glad you.
Sarah Gormley [00:29:17]:
Thank you for the thoughtful conversation. It's nice to see your face again.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:29:26]:
Thanks for listening to this episode. I would love it if you would go to Apple podcast and leave a rating and a review. And then you can go to rebeccafleetwoodhession.com and join the Badass Women's Council. And if you really want to take a deeper dive, join the movement of a thousand thriving women. There's amazing thrive tools there for you today. Love you.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:29:46]:
Mean it.
Sarah Gormley [00:29:47]:
I'm not coming down.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:29:51]:
Hey y'all, fun fact, if you like the music for the podcast, that is actually my son Cameron Hessian and I would love it if you would go to Spotify and iTunes and follow him and download some of his other music. My personal favorite is tv land.