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Our editor, Josh Manning, jumps on the podcast this week with Stephen to talk through his mentoring journey. He shares the impact mentoring has made on his life, how he came to work at Forerunner as an after school program coach, and some of the lessons he's learned in the last year. Tune in to also hear about his favorite book in the Bible and how he believes it applies to mentoring.
Show Notes
Our editor, Josh Manning, jumps on the podcast this week with Stephen to talk through his mentoring journey. He shares the impact mentoring has made on his life, how he came to work at Forerunner as an after school program coach, and some of the lessons he's learned in the last year. Tune in to also hear about his favorite book in the Bible and how he believes it applies to mentoring.
Need something creative done? Reach out to Josh:
joshmanningdesigns.com
joshua@joshmanningdesigns.com
Purchase the You Can Mentor book:
You Can Mentor: How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission, and Break Generational Curses
youcanmentor.com
Need something creative done? Reach out to Josh:
joshmanningdesigns.com
joshua@joshmanningdesigns.com
Purchase the You Can Mentor book:
You Can Mentor: How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission, and Break Generational Curses
youcanmentor.com
Creators and Guests
What is You Can Mentor: A Christian Youth Mentoring Podcast?
You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.
We want to hear from you! Send any mentoring questions to hello@youcanmentor.com, and we'll answer them on our podcast. We want to help you become the best possible mentor you can be. Also, if you are a mentoring organization, church, or non-profit, connect with us to join our mentoring network or to be spotlighted on our show.
Please find out more at www.youcanmentor.com or find us on social media. You will find more resources on our website to help equip and encourage mentors. We have downloadable resources, cohort opportunities, and an opportunity to build relationships with other Christian mentoring leaders.
You can mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships with kids from hard places in the name of Jesus. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others. You can mentor.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to the You Can Mentor podcast. My name is Stephen Murray, and I'm here with a special guest we have today, the editor of our podcast, Joshua Manning. Joshua, how the heck are you?
Speaker 3:I'm doing good, Stephen. Do you realize you say that out after every episode?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm sure you do if you edit our podcast.
Speaker 3:Yes. Yes. I do. Would would you edit the same person every week for what? We're going on a year now?
Speaker 3:Every single every single week, you're like, how the heck are you? And I'm like, yep. That's that's just Steven's catchphrase.
Speaker 2:I actually I actually picked that up listening to another podcast called Keeping Up With the Joneses. Allen and AJ Jones from they're they're in Tennessee, they're pastors, and listening to their podcast for years, Allen Allen Jones, he always asks his wife, how the heck are you? And I was just like, that's a great question.
Speaker 3:It is. I mean, everybody deserves to be asked, how are they doing? Right?
Speaker 2:We actually did start with our director team, something we call feelings check, where we ask each other to to say 2 words that describe how you're feeling. It has been the most difficult thing in the world to actually describe the way that you're feeling. And so maybe you could say that asking how the heck are you, in Texas, people usually just tell you that they're fine or they're good. But on our staff, we're trying to change that. We're like, I am disgruntled.
Speaker 2:I'm exhausted. I'm delighted. I'm tired.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You're probably gonna edit this part out of the podcast,
Speaker 3:but I don't know. We'll listen to it, and we'll find out. No. I but I agree with you on that, like
Speaker 2:Maybe let me ask you that question. How many how much of the podcast gets erased that people do not hear?
Speaker 3:Actually, it well, it depends on how prepared you are, Steven. No. It's it's not as much as most people would think. For the most part, it's filling out filter words like, and and now I'm gonna really regret this because I'm the one editing this podcast episode and it's gonna do that for me. Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's mostly just filtering those out. Every once in a while, a host will say something like, oh, that's not exactly how I wanted that to come out, or I wanna do that again, something like that. And we do have code words for that so that in the software that I use to to, edit, I can
Speaker 2:just do it. I literally I literally just say Josh, Josh, Josh, Josh, Josh.
Speaker 3:Yep. Pretty much. Or the other one, believe it or not, is pineapple is the is the code word that I can because, honestly, let's be real. How many conversations about pineapples do we have, you know, in general? Like, it it just doesn't happen.
Speaker 3:And so it's it's just this whole finding that word that we that nobody talks about. And so that we I can go and look for that and be like, oh, okay. There's a cut there. But yeah. So by and large, I'd say in an hour long episode, it usually gets cut down to about 55 minutes once you cut out all the filler words.
Speaker 3:And then, of course, it can always be a little bit less than that depending on, you know, how well articulated a thought was.
Speaker 2:Do you usually cut out controversial jokes or I'm just wondering when I'm gonna get canceled. Josh, can you can you give me any heads up on whether whether I need to be censored?
Speaker 3:You I have filtered a few things. I won't tell you which one they are on air because then you will get canceled. There there have been a few things that you that you have said or another host has said that were just like, maybe that's not the best idea for the You Can Mentor podcast, and maybe there was a better way to phrase that. And so I Thank you, Josh, for covering me. You're welcome.
Speaker 3:I always run them past you. You know that. So every once in a while, I'm just like, is this really what you meant to say? Then you're like, yeah. Maybe not.
Speaker 3:I was like, okay. Just checking. That's what I thought.
Speaker 2:Josh, what is your favorite episode of the podcast?
Speaker 3:Oh, that's a good question. I would say I really loved the TBRI episode with Lieutenant Whelan Cubitt. I think that's who hosted it, but it was, like, episode 137 or something like that. It came just at the perfect time.
Speaker 2:I thought you have that off the top of your head. Yeah. Episode 137.
Speaker 3:Not all of them. They're they're I mean, that one I do because I actually just, like, went back and looked at that one recently. I was having a conversation with somebody. I was like, yeah. We just did a a podcast episode on this.
Speaker 3:And so I went back and I looked at it. So I I know it's in the 130 somewhere. I think it's 137, but it could be plus or minus 1 or 2 episodes off of that. But, yeah, it's that one, I just, you know, I had just started getting into mentoring in my own in in my own way, taking on the the position at at 4 Runner in their junior high program as a site lead.
Speaker 2:It's it's 127.
Speaker 3:Oh. Hey. I got 2 of the three numbers. So but, yeah, I had just taken on, the position at at 4 Runner. And so, you know, I just we'll get into it here in a bit, but, like, I'm not trained for this.
Speaker 3:And so, you know, there was a lot of questions there. And that one, editing that episode just, like, was at the perfect time where I was like, oh, okay. This is this is where these kids are coming from, and this is how I can approach this and and relate to them on their level as opposed to me just sitting there going, I'm the adult and you're gonna respect me, and this is the way it is. Like, that's just not effective.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man. I I love that episode. So episode 127, when you get done with this one, just pull that one up. It's a trust based relational intervention training with Amber Given from Halo Project in Oklahoma City. So Yep.
Speaker 2:Go for it.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's a great one.
Speaker 2:Josh Manning. So, obviously, you edit our podcast. You have some level of technical skill to do that. I know that you got your master's degree at SMU in lighting design, but you also have AV experience. Tell me how you started working at 4 Runner because Yeah.
Speaker 3:To get to that, I think we need to do a little bit of background. So, originally, I'm from Salt Lake City, Utah. I knew or I got into theater in particular when I was a junior in high school. Right? So we're going all the way back to to high school to for this story.
Speaker 3:But, yeah, I knew that I wanted to be a lighting designer when I was a junior in high school, and then I just went to school for that and and got my bachelor's degree in technical theater with a lighting emphasis. And then as I was graduating from college, you know, with with my bachelor's, you know, every young adult has to answer that question of, okay. Now what? Right? And so I you know, just my senior year of of undergrad, I was sitting there going, well, I have no real plans.
Speaker 3:I hate my life. I hate what I'm doing. I know what I want to be doing, but I don't feel like I'm adequately prepared for that to be successful right now. And so I I started looking into the possibility of going to grad school. And, like, just for the record, this was god all the way.
Speaker 3:Right? Because, like, I did not try to get into grad school, like, at all. I did the bare minimum to get into grad school that I possibly could. You know, I was just kinda feeling it out, see what it was what it was about. And so I flew to Chicago, did grad school interviews with 19 schools in one day, which is absolutely insane.
Speaker 3:And then that March, had a follow-up interview at SMU, not at SMU, over the phone with SMU. And in that follow-up, he was like, you know, I wanna give you an offer. And he's like, but here's the deal. I need to know by Friday if you can if you can make that decision by then. I was like, okay.
Speaker 3:So I had 5 days. Right? I had 5 days to decide whether or not I was going to grad school. And now, I'd never been to the campus. I'd never been to Dallas.
Speaker 3:I didn't know anybody in Dallas. I didn't even know where in Texas Dallas was. Like, I legit thought it was closer to Austin. And then, you know, just over that week, like, I had 5 days. And the more I thought about it, the more I was just like I need to move to Texas.
Speaker 3:I don't know why. I just need to move to Texas. So I did. I'm I packed up in 5 months and quit my job making more money than a young 22 year old should, and moved halfway across the country where I didn't know anybody. Right?
Speaker 3:And so started going to school at SMU, and then, like, about 6 weeks later, I woke up on a Sunday and, you know, God it's the only time I've ever clearly heard God's voice. He said, you said yes to moving down here when you go into church because I had stopped going to church when I was in in Utah. And I was like, wait, it's 12:30 on a Sunday, so I guess next week. And I spent that day I literally googled churches near me and was looking to find one and found Antioch and listened to a couple of Zach's Zach's sermons. I was like, yeah.
Speaker 3:I I could see myself going here. Went to the early service the next week and never went anywhere else. I was just like, this is where I'm supposed to be. And then that week, I met I met you, Steven. Right?
Speaker 3:You know, it was I went in, started, you know, building that whole new community and, you know, just starting meeting people. And they're like, you know, what do you do? And I was like, well, I'm a student at SMU. Oh, cool. You know, we have or a LifeGroup at SMU.
Speaker 3:Right? I was like, yeah. I've heard. And they're like, let me introduce you to Steven. Sure.
Speaker 3:Let's do it. And that's where Steven and I really became friends and got to know each other was through LifeGroup because he was in the college ministry at that time. And then shortly after that, you left and went to 4 Runner. And it's kinda I've just kinda been in your sphere of influence, Steven. Right?
Speaker 3:You know, I've won't I've told you this before, but in many ways, that 1st year of, me being in Texas, you were mentoring me even though you didn't realize that you were mentoring me. I was in such need of community and guidance and godly influence by people that, like, I was just drawn to you and and, you know, how you lived your life and just related to people. And so through that, you and I have just stayed friends. Flash forward, I graduated grad school and now I have to answer the question again. What are what are you doing with your life?
Speaker 3:But I was more prepared this time because a, I knew that it was coming up, and b, I had really grown in the last 3 years of being in Texas in, like, pursuing God, wanting to do what he his calling on my life was, and and things like that. And so, you know, it's about 3 times a year now where I just I start going through that process and praying in my quiet times. Hey, God. What are we doing now? You know?
Speaker 3:And it it kind of follows the school year seasons where it's like fall semester, kind of in late July, beginning of August, I start praying that and and get vision for the fall semester. And then kind of early November, mid December, around Christmas, kind of, I start praying for the the spring semester. And then as the school year's wrapping up, I start praying about the summer and figuring out what does that mean and what does that look like. And it's just been this weird rhythm that I've gotten into that seems to work for me. So that's where I'd been at.
Speaker 3:I was
Speaker 2:Weird weird rhythm or wise rhythm?
Speaker 3:I don't know. It's it's a rhythm. I'm not sure which one it is. But it works for me. Right?
Speaker 3:And so I'd you know, as I was graduating, I'd started that and didn't really have a vision for the summer and was just trying to do it on my own, right, of, like, driving Uber and Lyft. I was working ridiculous hours driving around the metroplex and things like that. And then at the end of July, you you called me and literally said the words, I have nobody else to go. I need you to chaperone a bunch of students to a summer camp in San Antonio. And I was just like, okay, Steven.
Speaker 3:Just cards on the table. Like, this is where we're at. I need to come up with $1200 in the next 4 days to pay my rent and I have no idea how I'm gonna make that happen. Like, I want to say yes. I just I can't like, I can't leave because this is all I know of how to make that happen.
Speaker 3:And so you and I worked through some details. Turns out I was able to go and chaperone these students. And, yeah, from there, Darius offered me the job, you know, while we were at camp. And I spent the next week going, what am I doing with my life? Is this really what I'm called to be doing?
Speaker 3:I thought I was called to be a lighting designer. How does this work into that plan, and how does this make sense? And after I mean, I had a lot of conversations that week. I I talked with my executive pastor. I talked with you.
Speaker 3:I talked with my parents. I talked I I talked with so many different people in that in that week, which, again, I had a week to decide on whether or not to take this thing that totally seems out of character for me. So apparently, that's just what I need to do now is make decisions in a week for things that are completely out of character for me. I don't know. But yeah.
Speaker 3:So I had a week to decide whether or not to take this position at Forerunner and I spent a lot of time praying about it. I was in a lot of pain because I was so confused about it. But within that, god just met me there and was like, this is what you're doing and I'm calling you know, you need to sacrifice the thing that you thought you were gonna do. So accepted the offer, and that's kinda how I got into into mentoring junior high students in a group setting.
Speaker 2:It's a great story. I love it. And I love the threads of, like, how God has called you to respond and from Utah to your time at SMU to you cultivating this rhythm of obedience and asking him what his will for your life is, but then also your willingness to jump in and meet needs. That's always what I've seen you do at Antioch and just just in general. You've you've been a a man who always is willing to jump in and do what's needed, do it excellently, and learn in the process, even if it's not necessarily what you're skilled at.
Speaker 2:It's like you have a master's degree in lighting, but God is calling you to do all these other things that that don't relate. And yet, you've been faithful to to grow in those things, and that's that's what I've seen in in my time with you, Josh.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And, I mean, a large part of that was very, very early on when I started serving at Antioch, which, you know, it's no surprise. I serve on the worship and production team at Antioch. Right? Like, again, that's what I'm
Speaker 2:trained for. Let me guess. Do you do you, do the lighting for the Sunday morning services?
Speaker 3:I do it all. Like, pick something back there, and I do it at this point. Yes. I started with lighting, but it's kind of morphed into I run slides, I run sound, I do livestream direct I do all. I do it all.
Speaker 3:But yeah. No. Very, very early on, it was probably within the first couple of months of serving, they had started presenting, like, our serve team values. Right? And, you know, these things that these are what we want to see in our serve teams.
Speaker 3:And one of them was I'm literally quoting here. One of them is we were we are owners, not renters. And for whatever reason, that just stuck with me. Right? And it's this idea that we whatever you do and it comes from that verse.
Speaker 3:I think it's in Galatians. I could be wrong. But it's that verse of, you know, finally brothers, whatever you do, like, do it for the glory of god. Right? And so the idea behind we are owners not renters is whatever you're gonna do, like, own it.
Speaker 3:Right? You know, we we're not here to just live our lives and exist, and then we die and then, you know, go to heaven or hell. It's like, no. We are here for a purpose, and God puts things in our lives for a purpose. And, yeah, you may not understand what that is at the time, but as long as you have a yes in your heart, like, that's all that matters because, you know, nobody's ever regretted saying yes to God.
Speaker 3:Right? So, yeah, it's just this idea of, you know, whatever you do, do it with excellence. And so for me, I just latched onto that, and I was like, this is who I am. This is what I'm gonna what I'm gonna do. Whatever I do, whether it's what I thought I was called to do or not, I'm going to give it my 100%.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna commit to doing it the best I possibly can. And am I gonna make mistakes? Yeah. But that's because I'm human. Everybody makes mistakes.
Speaker 3:Right? And that's how wisdom is gained is through learning and not learning, but also seeing how different situations in the past apply to the current. And so, yeah, that's just kinda where that comes from is this idea of we're owners, not renters.
Speaker 2:Such a good word. Whatever you do, do it all in the in what what does it say? Do it all
Speaker 3:Oh, man. I'm gonna let
Speaker 2:them know. In the name of Jesus. In the name of Jesus. Do it all for do it all for the glory of God.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think it's finally brothers, whatever you do, whether it's so whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. Yeah. It's 1st Corinthians 1031.
Speaker 2:I don't I don't think that's it. I I think it's Colossians. Colossians 317, and whatever you do or say, do it as a representative of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through him to the God the father. The first Corinthians one sounds like whether you you eat meat or you don't eat meat, go ahead and do it, but do it for Jesus, which is a little more like talking to Gentiles and Jews. Same difference.
Speaker 3:Yeah. The point is, whatever you do, do it for the glory of God. Right? Put God first, and that's really all that matters because he's never gonna let you fall.
Speaker 2:So That's good. Yeah. I I love the what you said. You said, no one's going to regret doing what God asked them to do. No one's gonna regret following God, doing what he says to do.
Speaker 2:And I I I just love I love that. So now you are you've served for almost a year in 4 Runner's after school program for junior high students. You've been a group mentor to them. You've walked them through curriculums, a discipline process,
Speaker 3:have a curriculum.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You've, I mean, you face difficulty, I'm assuming.
Speaker 3:Almost every day. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But you've also grown to appreciate the boys that you've invested your life in, and I I wonder if you could share any stories from from your experience being a group mentor and and what you've learned over this last year.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think the first thing I would say is that appreciate isn't a strong enough word. Appreciate is like having a fondness for of, like, oh, I appreciate the sun. Right? And these relationships go deeper than that.
Speaker 3:Right? Like, yeah, maybe the 1st week in, I would have said appreciate, but after, almost an entire school year of seeing these kids 5 days a week for 2 hours a day and and literally pouring a 100% of myself into every single kid simultaneously. Appreciate isn't the word. The word is love. Right?
Speaker 3:And yeah. So that's the first thing I wanted to clarify. The second thing that I would say or just share is, yeah, some stories. So the 1st week, man. The 1st week was really interesting.
Speaker 3:This is one of the clearest ones. And we so we have a student in the junior high who is in 7th grade, and he's been in program for, I think, a couple years now. And all of the k through 6 coaches know him. They love him. He's a very talkative student.
Speaker 3:Right? And he's very like, curious naturally curious. And, like, this kid just was gonna keep me on my toes the entire year and I could feel that just the first first time he talked to me. So, he gets on the van when we pick them up from school and doesn't say anything to me, like not even a word, doesn't even acknowledge my presence. Right?
Speaker 3:And we get to program, I get them all checked in, and then he comes up to me to start asking questions. And do do you have any guesses what his first question for me was, Steven?
Speaker 2:When is when are we gonna get to play basketball?
Speaker 3:No. Actually, he doesn't play a lot of basketball. No. His question wasn't when are we gonna get to play basketball. It wasn't who are you, what's your name, It wasn't how old you are?
Speaker 3:Where are you from? Like, all of those normal, like, get to know you questions. Now, his very first question the very first thing he said to me, why did you pick this job? I'm just sitting there going, okay. I guess we're really going there.
Speaker 3:And yeah. So he like, I answered that question and then it literally has just not stopped. Like, he has just every every day he's there. He's asked at least 10 questions from me. Some of them are completely nonsensical and just, you know, being curious.
Speaker 3:And some of them are actually really, really deep. Like, we've had conversations about cryptocurrency like, everywhere from cryptocurrency to what it means for God to love humans and what would happen if, like, we didn't we didn't have a relationship with God, if he had never sent Jesus, you know, all of those different things. Like, the the there is no, like, ends of the spectrum of the questions. It is just whatever is on his mind he's gonna ask and then I have to sit there and figure out how to answer these questions and sometimes, like, I don't know the answer and that's okay. Right?
Speaker 3:It's just to say, hey. You know what? I don't know the answer, but I know somebody who might and let me let me check with them and I'll get back to you. Okay? Like, that's what kids, especially curious kids, that's what they want.
Speaker 3:That's what they're craving is. Like, they build relationships through asking questions. They build relationship through through knowledge and not so much through doing activities and, like, asking questions and kind of this battle of, like, how much do you really know? Like, that is that's how they build relationship, and that's his need. On the flip side, I have other students and, you know, they're very, very physical.
Speaker 3:Right? Like, they want to play basketball. They wanna play football. They want to like, they are just, like, super hyperactive, and they don't do well just sitting down for a lesson time. And so you gotta find ways to to to engage them for for a 20 minute lesson and figure out how to engage them.
Speaker 3:And so we started doing things like letting them run slides or giving them a task during the lesson so that, you know, it it kinda forces them to pay attention. We we've got kids from all the all all kinds of those spectrums. And so, you know, when you're mentoring in a group mentoring role, you've got to figure out how to pour 100% of yourself into however many students you have that day. You know, for example, we had 9 students today in program. That if you're pouring a 100% of yourself into each student, that's 900%.
Speaker 3:Like, that math doesn't work. Right? So it's like, how do you how do you do that? And I don't know that I have a good answer for that. It's other than you just have to be present.
Speaker 3:Right? Like, if you show up and you're saying you know, and you walk into the space and you have 9 students and one of them wants to ask you a bunch of questions while the other one wants to play basketball, Like, you figure out how to play basketball while answering questions. That's what you do. And so, yeah, the key is really just be present and have that that openness and that yes in your heart. Right?
Speaker 3:And that's, I think, the thing that really set me up for being able to do this was being an owner, not a renter. Right? And just coming into it with, I have a I have a yes in my heart. So whatever these kids need, we're gonna do. Right?
Speaker 3:I'm going to meet those needs whatever they are, however I can. And do I do this perfectly? No. There are days that I come away and I was like, yeah. I didn't handle that situation correctly.
Speaker 3:For example, a story about that was we had a kid who, unfortunately, is no longer in our program because he moved, but he and I battled Will's a lot, right, where he had very little respect for me and for the rules of the program and things like that. And there was I I don't remember exactly what had happened, but it got to that point where I had to send him home for the day. And I had I actually had to suspend him. And, you know, it it became this very heated thing between him and I. We both kind of went limbic.
Speaker 3:We let kinda the animal part of our brain take over rather than sticking with the the cognitive part of it.
Speaker 2:You just did you just say went limbic?
Speaker 3:I did. That's yeah. That's been a whole thing that I've been learning over the last year or so is this idea of, like, what parts of your world your prefrontal cortex processes and what parts your limbic system processes. So limbic is very much like the the thoughts and like, the feelings and the neural pathways that are instinctual for you. And the prefrontal cortex is that higher reasoning of, like, oh, 2 +2 is 4.
Speaker 3:So more often than not, our conscious thought occurs in our prefrontal cortex. But when we when when we get triggered, it's called going limbic. And that part is taking over, and those are those predefined reflexes. It's where fight fight, flight, or freeze comes from. It's, you know, it's where all those things come from.
Speaker 3:And so in that particular instance, he and I had both gone limbic at that point. I had lost control of what I was trying to I had lost control of thinking about the the end goal that I was trying to accomplish, and he was just responding to my anger with more anger. And so it had it had escalated to the point where I had to suspend him and came came away that night after everybody had gone home. And I was just sitting there going, what just happened? And trying to process it and look back at what happened.
Speaker 3:And in talking with my boss and kind of processing what had gone down, we both kind of realized that I didn't handle that appropriately. And so we actually reversed his suspension and let him in program the next day because we had both realized that I was really the one in at fault there. And had I actually handled that in a healthier way, then a resolution could have been achieved. So
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:I was very humbling to go back the next day and say and apologize to a 14 year old and say, hey, I screwed up. I'm sorry. Your your consequence has been lifted. You're welcome in program today. Yeah.
Speaker 3:That's a humbling experience. But at the same time, I think that in and of itself builds so much relationship when the adult is apologizing to the kid. Right? Because then the kid is going, oh, like, a, it's okay to apologize, and b, like, he's setting his ego aside because he cares about me and wants me in program and wants to build that relationship.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's powerful, man. How how did he respond to that? Was he just like, cool?
Speaker 3:Yeah. But that's that's how 13 to 14 year olds react. I think I mean, the fruit of that was seen more in the long term than in the short term. Like, yeah, in the moment, he was he just kinda responded with cool. Over the next few few weeks to a month or so, like, I could see that level of respect had grown a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So Yeah. I love I love it, man. And I've experienced the same thing. Like, apologizing to kids is, a, like, you experience grace yourself because we know when we mess up and when we get angry or get frustrated and don't treat them like kids, we treat them like like adults.
Speaker 2:And it's like, you're a kid. I should not have said that or done that. Or or even if, as a mentor, like, you don't do something you you say you're gonna do, apologizing is always the right way to go, and you'd be surprised how much that experience is foreign to a child. And so modeling modeling humility and and asking for forgiveness, that's huge, man. I mean, I've I've watched you try to console kids who were angry or like, I remember there was one point where a kid got hit in the head with a basketball, and everybody laughed, and he started laughing too, and then he realized, oh my gosh, everybody's laughing at me, and then he just stormed off in frustration.
Speaker 2:And I remember seeing you, and you just looked me in the eyes, and you were, like, what the heck? And, I I mean, just so many moments where kids are having a breakdown, and you're trying to sit them down, look them in the eyes, and help them process what they're what they're experiencing. I don't I don't know if you can share things that you've learned in in that process of being there when the stuff's hitting the fan, when when a kid's yeah. Having having a moment in how mentors should respond.
Speaker 3:Yeah. That's that's a really good question. I would say
Speaker 2:Don't go limbic. That's what you would say.
Speaker 3:Yes. That that would be the first rule is don't go limbic. And when a kid is crying, like, when they're when they're having a breakdown, like, it's easier not to go limbic because at that point your heart is just full of compassion for them. Right? You can see where where they're coming from.
Speaker 3:You know, they can see, you know, why they're hurting. Like, when they're hurt, it's it's different. Like, it's really easy not to go olympic. But when they're having a breakdown because, you know, you irritated them or something like I mean, like, today, literally, one of my kids called me a snitch today because I had a conversation with his mom yesterday about the disrespect that had been happening. And those those ones are a little bit more like, they're a little bit trickier to not go Olympic.
Speaker 3:But, yeah, when a kid is hurting, like, all you're all you're feeling is compassion for them. Right? You're you're seeing in some cases, you're seeing yourself in them. Like, that that was my story as as a 13 14 year old is I was bullied pretty heavily by by my class. And I went to a private Lutheran school.
Speaker 3:I had a class of 24 or 25 in the 7th and 8th grade. Right? It wasn't like a a normal junior high school where you have 500 kids in the 7th grade. No. Like, I I had 25.
Speaker 3:And I had of that 25, I had one friend. Everybody else either was indifferent or hated me. And so in those instances where, you know, like you were talking about the kid who had been hit in the head with a basketball and and just kinda started having a breakdown. Like, I saw myself in that. Right?
Speaker 3:I saw like, that was very much me going, I can I can empathize with how you're feeling because that was me? I know how you're feeling. And so and and my response to that was not so much, you know, get up, you know, get up, brush it off. It's no big deal. It was, what do you need from me?
Speaker 3:Right? Like, what what do I wish I had when if that had happened to me, What do I wish I had? What do I wish an adult had done for me if that if I were you? And and trying to figure that out. And it's tricky.
Speaker 3:I mean, when you're in the moment, like, some of it's just instinctual. You just gotta go with whatever you can think of in the moment on, like, how best to respond. And then you come away from it and you self evaluate and you're like, okay. This worked. This didn't work.
Speaker 3:But some of it is also just listening. Right? And that's, I think, the number one piece of advice that I would give is if you are mentoring, whether it's in a group mentoring situation with, you know, 8 8 to 10 or 12 or however many kids you have or it's a 1 on 1 mentoring situation, listen to the kid. Right? They will tell you what they need even if they don't think that they're telling you what they need.
Speaker 3:Even if they're like, oh, he's not gonna do anything. Like, even that is telling you something. It's telling you that they don't trust adults. And so you've got to figure out how to build that trust, whether that's playing basketball with them, whether it's playing UNO, whether it's just giving them some space for a minute to calm down, process on their own. And then you revisit and you say, hey.
Speaker 3:Can you tell me what's going on? Right? How are you feeling right now? It's asking open ended questions. It's ask it's asking questions that can't be met with a yes and no.
Speaker 3:So rather than saying, are you feeling sad right now? It's, can you can you tell me how you're feeling right now? And sometimes the answer is no. I can't tell you what you're feeling. And then you kind of start asking more pointed questions of like, okay.
Speaker 3:If you can't tell me what you're feeling, I I can see you're crying. Are you sad? Well, kind of. Okay. What are you sad about?
Speaker 3:What's causing what's making you sad? And you would think that 13 14 year olds know what they're feeling, but, I mean, they're going through puberty. Like, they
Speaker 2:I I started this podcast talking about I don't know what I'm feeling.
Speaker 3:Exactly. I mean, I'm 27 years old and I don't usually know what I'm feeling. Right? Like, my my level of emotional awareness is not at all where it should be. But, you know, like, if we if we as adults can't identify how we're feeling half the time, why do we think a 13 or 14 year old can?
Speaker 3:Right? So the question or the the trick is not, can you tell me what you're feeling? It becomes trying like, hunting through those clues together and Mhmm. Kind of processing it together and saying, okay. What's going on?
Speaker 3:And then you can come back once they've started describing, oh, you know, so and so did this and this and this. And you're like, okay. So how does that make you feel? Right? What is what what are you feeling inside?
Speaker 3:Whether you have a word for it or not, like, can you describe to me what you're feeling? And then you can start you know, once you start having that conversation, it gets to that point of
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, okay. How do we move forward?
Speaker 2:Exactly. Once you have language, then you can find a way forward. Mhmm. And, I mean, it's like the the book of Psalms is King David, it's Asaph, it's Moses. Moses has some Psalms.
Speaker 2:It's them expressing the extent, like, the the the pole, like, the extremity of what they feel, either great sorrow or great joy, and in that process of of moving and defining how I actually feel and going there and putting language to it is usually, what happens in the Psalms is that it's a corrective experience where you actually acknowledge what's going on in your heart, and then it leads to trust because it in a way, I guess, in the scripture in the Psalms I just finished reading a book about it. And when you express the emotion that you're feeling and then you entrust it to God and allow him to to take care of it or at least acknowledge where you're at, it's cathartic. It it allows you to let go of it. If you can express what it is, you can let go of it and move on. And I I think that same thing happens with all of our boys and us.
Speaker 2:As soon as someone asks us about something traumatic we've gone through or how our day went, if we can put words to it, it allows us to let it let it go. I I just love that, Josh.
Speaker 3:It does, and I'm glad that you brought up the book of Psalms. I've I've kind of been reflecting on that over the last I don't know how long. Last year, so the year of 2021, I I started this journey in January through December of reading through the bible in a year. And a large part of that had to do with, like, I'd never read the entire bible. And so I was like, well, you know, I say I'm a Christian.
Speaker 3:I should probably know what's in the Bible. But within that journey, I had realized that 2 of my absolute favorite books, ironically, are Proverbs and Psalms. And I say ironically because I am not a very poetic person. In fact, I really don't like poetry all that much. But Proverbs and Psalms because of the the wisdom within Proverbs, but the the emotional rawness that's in Psalms, in the book of, you know and and, I mean, there's a 150 Psalms.
Speaker 3:Right? There's a psalm for pretty much everything and, like, every possible feeling that you have in one form or fashion. And I I've started doing this thing that when, like, if I'm up in the middle of the night because I'm anxious or my mind is racing at a 1000 miles an hour trying to process this this thing that happened that day that I never really made time or space to process, then I end up awake at 4:30 in the morning. It's like you can almost set an alarm for it. Like, I am awake at 4:30 in the morning and I can't go back to sleep.
Speaker 3:And the only thing that I found that really helps that is by reading the Psalms because the beauty of them and the language within them gives me that space to go, oh, this is what I'm feeling. And then I can go and say, you know, take that into prayer and say, God, I'm struggling. Like, this is what I'm feeling. This Psalm is what I'm feeling right now, and I need your help. This morning, we had we had staff for prayer.
Speaker 3:Right? And, like, the last the last 3 weeks has been hard for me. I just I've had a a bunch of other stuff going on outside of program that has kind of been weighing on me. In fact, one of them is this video project that I'm waiting to render right now, and it's an hour and a half in and has 4 and a half more hours to go. But, like, that's been weighing on me, and I was just drawn to Psalm 23.
Speaker 3:Right? And I think it's verse 3. It's even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me. Right? Like, that is that is just a comfort to me at that point is just this idea of even when stuff hits the fan, God is there.
Speaker 3:And then I would argue God is there more so than, you know, if you're having the best day of your life because those are the moments when we realize, I can't do this on my own. As much as I want to, I can't, and I have to rely on our father.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. That's good, man. I hadn't thought about it, but because you mentioned it, like the the distinction between Proverbs and Psalms. Like, Proverbs is very like, you do this, you get this, and you don't do this, then you're wise. Like, so it's it's all about wisdom, like, being wise versus being a fool.
Speaker 3:To an extent, we should clarify that Proverbs is not guaranteed promises.
Speaker 2:But it's it's these principles, and and I would say that, for the most part, if you were to put those 2 books in front of somebody and ask them which one is is important for mentoring, I would imagine most people would say, well, Proverbs clearly, because in mentoring, you're trying to teach somebody, hey, when you do this, this is what happens. And it's all, I mean, kind of matter of fact, principle oriented. That's what people think about when they think of mentoring. They don't necessarily think about, my job as a mentor is to help you process your emotions, to get real with God, to get real with me, and to get comfortable doing that, and being willing to expose yourself, to be vulnerable, to be transparent about all the stuff that's going on that no one can see on the inside so that you can become a whole person. Like, what is the the scripture?
Speaker 2:God desires truth in our innermost being. He's not he's not just wanting to put principles there. He's wanting to really redefine and help us clarify who we really are, and we can't do that without emotions. We can't do that without processing those internal battles and bringing what's what's hidden into the light. I mean, that's that's just a a huge thing that I I think mentoring is is just as much about the Psalms as it is the Proverbs.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I would agree with that. And I had this thought while you were while you were just talking right now is mentoring you you kinda said, like, mentoring a lot of people think mentoring is more like the proverbs where it's it's transactional. Right? It's this idea of I'm teaching you how to do x, y, and z.
Speaker 3:And Well,
Speaker 2:and that's literally what it is. It's like Solomon teaching his son
Speaker 3:Yeah. To an extent to an extent it is, but at the same time, like, you can't teach somebody how to do anything if you don't have a relationship with them. Right? Like, that's why forerunners primary value is what? Relationships change lives.
Speaker 3:Right? It's it's this idea of, yeah, we're we're connecting students with 1 on 1 mentors and we're inserting father figures into these kids' lives who don't have them. But when those matches happen, what is the first thing they do? It's not, I'm gonna teach you how to change a tire. It's, let's go shoot some hoops.
Speaker 3:Right? It's building those relationships. And once those relationships are built, that's what builds that trust and that's what allows me to say, oh, hey, Steven. I'm feeling this. Can you help me do this?
Speaker 3:Or, hey, I need to do this and I don't know how can you help me. Right? Like, if if a student doesn't trust you, it doesn't matter what you're gonna say. Right? Like, they're not going to listen to you.
Speaker 3:You have to build that relationship first, and that comes mostly from processing emotions. Right? And that's where the Psalms comes in and and putting words to those things. And, you know, just an example of this, at the beginning of the year, we had a student who's still here, but we had a student who, like, I had very little relationship with. Like, granted, I had very little relationship with most of the students at the beginning of the year because I had met them a week before.
Speaker 3:But this this particular student had, like, very, very little respect for me. Right? I was just some random person who showed up and started working at 4 Runner to him. And there was a lot of discipline issues with him out of the gate. Right?
Speaker 3:He was testing those limits. This is a student who had been around or been in program for, I think, 3 years or something like that. So, you know, we knew that he knew the expectations, but he was he was very much testing what is what is coach Josh going to stick to and what is he gonna let slide. And that just led to a lot of discipline issues in the 1st couple of months or whatever. And then flash forward to I think it was February, just, you know, just a couple months ago.
Speaker 3:He had tried out for the track team. He had actually made it on the track team, but he wasn't allowed to compete because other students had had edged him out of the rankings, and so he wasn't allowed to compete. And he walked to program that day because he was at practice and walked in and I was just like, hey, how I'm trying not to use his name. I was like, hey, man. How's it going?
Speaker 3:And he was just like, I'm angry, which was huge for him. Like, he's he doesn't usually talk about his emotions like that. He wasn't usually able to articulate what he was feeling. He just would act out. Right?
Speaker 3:He would kick a chair over or he'd kick a trash can or something like that. And, yeah, there was a little bit of that, but it wasn't at the level that it normally does that causes those discipline issues. Like, he was able to say, I'm angry. This is what happened, and I just need some time to cool down. And I was like, cool.
Speaker 3:I appreciate you telling me that. There's a chair over there. I can make sure that you have some space to yourself to just calm down. And if if and when you wanna have a conversation, I'm here. Pull me aside.
Speaker 3:Let's let's have a conversation. Let's talk about it and figure out what our next steps are. And know, that's just one story. We've had several students who were that way. So
Speaker 2:That's awesome, man. I love it. I mean, we I I think our one of our hopes is to help our boys, not just emotionally, but also spiritually that that we would, in a way, spur them on to a relationship with God and help them to to experience him, to to hear the gospel, and, in a way, model faith in Jesus for them. I want I wonder if you could share any stories of, as as a group mentor, what does it look like for you to lead these boys spiritually, and what fruit have you seen from from the practices that you you've been a part of?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So in the junior high program, which is a little bit different than k through 6. So k through 6 has, like, dedicated bible time. I think it's like 30 minutes a day where the coaches are teaching bible stories. They're, you know, whatever.
Speaker 3:Like, they're teaching dedicate it's dedicated bible time. We don't have that quite as much in the junior high for whatever reason. It's just not the way our our our particular program is structured. But, you know, we are still in ministry, and So we are still trying to shepherd them in that. And so for us, what we have is what's called my ten time which is more trying to teach them and build this rhythm of having dedicated, 1 on 1 quiet time with the Lord.
Speaker 3:And so it's from 4:20 to 4:30 Mondays Tuesdays, and it's just this idea of, k. We're doing we're doing my 10 time and here's go get your journal. Go find a spot by yourself. We state the expectation every single day that we do it of, it's my 10 times so phones are down, laptops are closed, earbuds are out, there is no talking, go get your journal, find a spot to yourself, and here's your prompt. Right?
Speaker 3:And the prompt is different every day and I think like this week's was or I think one of the prompts this week was why is it important to listen to others or something like that. But the idea is it's building this rhythm of intentionally taking time to be with the Lord, to pray, to process, to to just have a quiet time. And then outside of that, you know, we have man manhood time on Monday which is teaching them, like, what it like, things like what it means to be a man. So, you know, things like talking about gangs or talking about being the salt of the earth and the light of the world. You know, things like that.
Speaker 3:And so that usually has a lot of biblical knowledge laced into it. And, yeah, it's just it's the the structures we have in the junior high for spirituality are things where we had to figure out how to get it into their rhythm without them knowing because they don't have much of an interest in it naturally, and that just part comes with being a a young teenager. In junior high? Yeah. Being in junior high.
Speaker 3:And so we had to find ways to sneak it in without them realizing it. So it's things we've started doing like the verse of the week where we write it on the board, and then on Mondays, before we do manhood time, I erase it and have the verse scrambled up on index cards and they gotta put it in order. Right? Or the other thing we've started really doing is bible word searches. Like, I go I'd literally go online and Google free bible word search, and I print one off every single day.
Speaker 3:And they you know, if they're the 1st person to finish the word search, then they get trolleys. If they're the 2nd or third person, they get an extra snack. Right? Like, it's it's creating it's like incentivizing them to do this activity that is biblically oriented and they don't realize it. So Mhmm.
Speaker 3:That's kinda how we do it. But all of that leads to being able to have 1 on 1 conversations with them and having more in-depth conversations. Like, just a few weeks ago I think it was the week before spring break, we had just kinda I mean, it was the week before spring break. So we we have church on Fridays, and we go over to k through 6 and we have a church service where one of the coaches preaches on a topic. Like, I preached last week and my topic was Jesus is healer.
Speaker 3:So I gave a whole 15 minute sermon on Jesus being a healer and what that looked like and how that applied in our lives today. But in this particular instance, we had gone to church and we had started the day with 3 students in program, which is already a challenge in junior high is, like, they're may have some independence that can choose whether or not they wanna show wanted want to show up to program. And when it's the day before spring break starts, like, not many people wanna show up. So we had 3 students. 2 of them left in the middle of church because they got picked up early.
Speaker 3:So by the time church ended, we had 1 student. And we finished church, we went back across to our building, and we had just kinda myself, the grade coach under me, and the student just kinda had, like, really intentional conversation about about god, really, and about what he believed, why he believed it. We, you know, corrected some things in in his in, you know, what he believed, you know, some viewpoints that weren't quite theologically accurate. And, you know, it just it it was a really good sweet moment of being able to connect relationally on a deeper level where we can we can just relate to each other and we can talk about God. And I've done that with a lot of my students.
Speaker 3:Like, that's the goal for me is, you know, because we are a ministry, it's like, how do I first, how do I get God into your life? And how do I, you know, how do I get you reading the Bible without you realizing you're reading the Bible? But it's also like, how do I pave that road so that, maybe not right now, but a week from now or a month from now, you and I can sit down, and we can have a conversation about what you believe, why you believe it, and how we grow from there. Like, that's that is a goal for me. And so and a a large part of that is like, that's a heavy weight to carry because I gotta make sure that what I'm saying is theologically accurate.
Speaker 3:So it's not like I can't get away with not doing a quiet time every day. I gotta do that to make sure that, you know, the the words the words of the word play on words there. The words of the word are written on my heart so that in that moment, like, I can pull that up.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. You have something in the tank.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Which I I mean, I I appreciate even just what you're saying of when you're working with kids, they're not always gonna wanna do what you want to do or the activity that you've kinda set out, and junior high students can be indifferent. They can be antagonistic to what what you're trying to accomplish, but they can also be receptive and show hunger. And a lot of that is really on the mentor to really create an environment that is attractive, that that really entices you to participate. And I know you found a lot of activities that have been very fruitful in helping helping students take their first steps in starting a relationship with God. And it might not be opening up a John MacArthur bible commentary and
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Talking about eschatological presuppositions and whatever. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I don't think that
Speaker 2:would work. But but it can be a beautiful thing when you give prompts and invite the Holy Spirit to to meet with you even as a a kid who just is sitting quiet and inviting God into the room and establishing those practices. Any spiritual discipline has to start somewhere.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And it takes effort.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. And and so the the personal ownership, we're owners not renters, is the same thing you're trying to establish in them. It's like, this can't always be you walk in here, and you tell we tell you what to do, and you just listen. This has to be you get some skin in the game and learn learn how to to do this on your own and and create that as a personal rhythm, and I I think that's what that's what we're trying to do. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:So
Speaker 3:yeah,
Speaker 2:I love that, Josh.
Speaker 3:And it and it pays off or pays off too. Like, you're planting those seeds, and then you're watering that garden. And, you know, it may not be 6 months down the road when you're still mentoring this kid, even in a group mentoring situation. It may not happen when you're there. Right?
Speaker 3:But you're planting those seeds, and that is starting to grow. And so you look back what is it? April now. You look back to August and you're sitting there going, like, how am I gonna make this happen? Especially as somebody who is not trained in child development at all.
Speaker 3:You look you're at in August, you're I was sitting there going, like, how do I how do I do this? And then flash forward all the way to April, and I'm sitting there, and I'm still asking, how do I do this? But I have a year of of wisdom there that I've gained. And I've been planting those seeds. And now now one of my students wants to get baptized.
Speaker 3:And we had an entire conversation, what, like, a week and a half ago about what is baptism? What does it mean to be baptized? What is why do we get baptized? Things like that. Right?
Speaker 3:Wouldn't have had that conversation in October when he started program because he didn't trust me then. I hadn't planted those seeds. But, you know, now he wants to get baptized because he realizes that he needs God and that a large part of that had to do with fore he's even said to me, forerunner makes me a better person. And those are the those are the stories that keep you going. Right?
Speaker 3:When when you're having a hard day, whenever all of your students have been on 1 and you're you end the day and you're just sitting there going, what just happened? Like, you sit there and you think about those wins and you celebrate those wins of this kid wants to get baptized because of the because of the investment I've put in him. He wants to give his life to god, and he wants to get baptized, and he wants to be a better person. Like, that's what makes it worth it is getting to see that. And, again, that may not happen, you know, 6 months into the into investing them in them.
Speaker 3:It may not happen at all when you're investing in them. It might happen 2 years after your guys' formal mentoring relationship ended, but you can take heart in knowing that you're the one who planted that seed and that God watered that, and everything is perfect in his time.
Speaker 2:Yep. That's good, man. Josh, do you have any encouragement you'd like to give to a mentor out there who's been listening to the podcast that you've edited for the last, I mean, almost 2 years now?
Speaker 3:Are we coming up on 2 years now?
Speaker 2:I I think I think we are. You editing the podcast is definitely Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because I think we were in double digits when we started editing. We're almost at 200 now. Mhmm. So, yeah, words of encouragement. I would say my biggest word of encouragement is not so much geared at the person who is already mentoring, but is geared at the person who isn't mentoring.
Speaker 3:Right? Like, the the title of this podcast is You Can Mentor. And I think that's the biggest takeaway from my story is that anybody can mentor. Right? Like, it it comes back to another thing that we teach or that I that I teach as I'm training people in our production team at church.
Speaker 3:I can teach you what you need to know. What I can't teach you is the desire to serve. Right?
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And so for those who are already mentoring, they already like, they have the desire to serve. And if that's you, great. Keep going. Right? Just keep running that race because it will pay off.
Speaker 3:Again, you might not see the fruit of that during the formal part of your mentorship, but one day, if you keep pressing in, if you keep putting God in the center of the relationship, you're going to see that fruit. But if you're not, if you are somebody who just got sent this this episode by somebody who is mentoring and you're not sure that you wanna start mentoring or that you're even qualified to start mentoring, I think my word of encouragement is twofold. 1, is me just literally telling you through my story and my experience that, yes, you can mentor. Anybody can mentor. Like, you can be taught how to mentor.
Speaker 3:What can't be taught is that desire. And the second thing that I would point out is the story of Moses in Exodus, and and just this idea that God revealed himself to Moses through a burning bush and said, You're gonna go to Egypt. You're gonna free my people, and then you're gonna lead them to the promised land. And Moses was sitting there going like, You got the wrong person. Right?
Speaker 3:I'm not good at talking. I'm not good at doing this, that, or the other thing. And those are all lies that I believed when I started mentoring too, was I I'm not trained in child development. I don't know how to interact with children. And I was like even at the time, I was like, I'm not even sure that I like children.
Speaker 3:But the experience has been, again, having that yes in your heart. Right? Like, that's the part that you need to get to is get to that point where you set aside your ego and set aside, you know, this is how this is gonna go, and just say, okay, God. I'm along for the ride. Whatever's gonna happen.
Speaker 3:I don't know what you got planned, but let's do it. Once you do that, it's gonna be hard, but it's also gonna be so rewarding. So if you're if you're thinking about mentoring, if you got sent this episode from somebody who is mentoring and you're not a mentor and you're like, I'm not qualified to do this, that's okay. Like, you don't have to be qualified to be a mentor. There's no such thing as being qualified, quote unquote, to being a mentor.
Speaker 3:All you have to do is be willing to show up, pour into this kid, and teach them well, 1st build relationship with them, build that trust, learn to help or learn how to help them process their emotions, but then you just got to keep showing up because that's really all they want is somebody who will keep showing up, who will fight in their corner for them, and just be willing to cheer them on. Because that's really all we want, even adults.
Speaker 2:It's good, man. Come on. That is Josh Manning, the editor of the You Can Mentor podcast. The reason you are able to listen to this every week, every Thursday. Josh, thanks for your investment in mentors and in personally being a mentor.
Speaker 2:I think it it honestly is really cool that the editor of this podcast is himself now a mentor of Kids From Hard Places in the name of Jesus. And I, yeah, I I just love I love your story and your encouragement to people out there. So if you wanna connect with Josh Manning, you can find him on his website. He started his own company, his own lighting design, videography. I mean
Speaker 3:Sound engineer, podcast editing, like
Speaker 2:He does all the things. Pick something creative. I do it. Josh Manning designs. I would hire this guy real quick and I already did, so would recommend.
Speaker 2:Twice. Five stars.
Speaker 3:You hired me twice. 1 is a mentor and 1 is a podcast editor.
Speaker 2:Josh, thanks for being on the podcast today.
Speaker 3:Thank you. It was a pleasure, Steven. And I'm gonna take I'm gonna take your outro because I can. If you didn't hear anything else in this episode, hear this. You can mentor.
Speaker 2:Come on. Come on. I'm sure you've heard that a lot. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 3:Like once an episode.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. Yeah. You can mentor. Thanks for listening guys. Thanks.