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The Moonshots Podcast goes behind the scenes of the world's greatest superstars, thinkers and entrepreneurs to discover the secrets to their success. We deconstruct their success from mindset to daily habits so that we can apply it to our lives. Join us as we 'learn out loud' from Elon Musk, Brene Brown to emerging talents like David Goggins.
113 Way Final
[00:00:00] Welcome to the moonshots podcast. It's episode one, one three. Yes, that's right. 130 episodes. And I'm your co-host Mike Parsons or the man who is both resilience and stoic. I am joined by my constant partner. In crime, Mr. Mark piss and Franklin. Good morning morning, Mike. Yep. I'm all about Mr. Ryan holiday right now.
How are you? Well, we like you deep in this stoic, uh, world. Uh, we are venturing into our next chapter of this series. Where are we going today? This one is a great build on last week's episode, in episode 112, we covered ego is the enemy, which was, you know, [00:01:00] internal and thinking about our own minds. This week, we're stepping outside of our, our brains, so to speak and thinking about the obstacle is the way, I mean, I mean, what a ride so far, we did sort of like the primer on stoicism.
Then we went super deep on, on the ego and to be humble and to always be learning. And then today as we go on the adventure of life of work, Trying to get something special done in the world. There is only one truth, no matter what your practice is, there's going to be a few obstacles on and we're going to get into that.
Yeah, yeah. This, this one for me is so timeless. It's covered, uh, you know, and in stoicism and you know, Ryan holiday really digs into it in this big obstacle is the way. And it's just real [00:02:00] collective wisdom from a number of key sources throughout history, web. Ryan does that very well. He, he can totally grab, I'll just get this guy from 3000 years ago, splashing a bit of Steve jobs and they're all talking about the same thing.
It's so funny, isn't it? But it's it's so. You know, perfect in it's timing right now for us to be reminded of these individuals in history, both ancient as well as more modern and how they've all experienced, you know, challenges, you and I, all of our listeners, we experienced these challenges to, and by Ron holiday collecting and connecting us with those past.
Individuals. It just feels a lot more relatable as well as I feel almost relieved. I feel like I can yeah. Handle it a little bit better. Well, there's no doubt that when you, you read Ryan holiday's work and he talks about the problems faced by Churchill or Eisenhower. Oh, Marcus, Ray. She like, [00:03:00] what an earth am I worrying about?
I mean, it's, it's much like studying a car may not, who's overcome the most incredible challenges. And you're like, what am I complaining about? Wake up Mike, come on. Um, but here's the thing. I think the reason why this show is so important for us, for our listeners is the truth is problems happen? Don't they Mark.
There is no way you can avoid a problem. Yep. Problems are going to happen. And fundamentally it's going to be potential challenge. But the thing that Ron holiday really draws us attention to is that we should focus and be aware of the things that we can control. So when those problems come along, maybe you trip up on that obstacle.
That's okay. Just as long as you are aware and can control your reactions or your responses and the way that you behave. Following that moment, that I think is the real big takeout. That again, car may not as [00:04:00] well. It's great example. He demonstrated that his positivity comes from his awareness that sometimes he can't control things and he focuses on the things that he can.
And that's such a good lesson. And dare I say, uh, much like a learning as we talked a lot about in the previous show, I think resilience and the ability to overcome and to go through this, the obstacle is so totally moonshot kind of thinking. Yeah. And that's why I'm so excited about the show. We have a lot coming up.
We have seen great clips. I think the rate of obstacles in 2020 for everyone on this planet was at an all time high. So let's jump in. And get a taste of Ryan. Holiday's thinking on the obstacle is the way. Life is going to throw all sorts of difficulty at you and it can make you better or it can make you worse.
That's your call?
[00:05:00] So I just love this idea that 2000 years ago, the most powerful man in the world, that'd be Marcus. Really? She's the emperor of Rome he's sitting down and he's writing in what would become meditation's he's he writes this line. He says the impediment to action advances. Action. What stands in the way? It becomes the way.
And I mean, this is a guy who you think is not dealing with any obstacles because you can do whatever he wants. He's ahead of most powerful army as unlimited wealth, but he's reminding himself that stuff's going to happen. He's going to face obstacles. And really what he's saying is we can use those things as an opportunity to practice virtue, creativity skills that we wouldn't have intended.
But now, because of that obstacle, we have. The opportunity to do okay, stuff's going to happen. Your plane's going to be delayed. The computer's going to eat the document, that deal that you thought you were almost finished completing is going to fall apart at the last minute, these are all going to be problems.
These are going to be obstacles. People are going to [00:06:00] think you're too young. You're too old. You're not smart enough. You're not experienced enough. You're coming from this industry that you're gonna have these obstacles. But the question is, is that, how do you make these obstacles not appear? But the question is, what do you do with these obstacles?
How do you. To use them as opportunities to do something that you couldn't have otherwise done. How is it going to make you better? If you get better for everything that life throws at you, the harder life is the better you're going to be. And. That's what Marcus really has meant when he said the impediment to action advances action.
What stands in the way becomes the way, uh, straight off the bat? What, what, uh, I'm wanting an intro clip to the obstacle is the way by Ron holiday. Oh gosh, my, my bro, I like, I've got like three or four things that I want to jump on, but what. What really hit you there, Mark. What was really, really punching you on the nose?
What I love about it is the fact that whenever you [00:07:00] have an obstacle, it is, uh, it's like a junction. It's like a path. Are you going to take the left-hand path or the right-hand path? You're going to take the left-hand path and maybe freak out or get aggressive, or maybe just shut down and turn away from that.
Let's go through the list. Mark. Let's get through this blame judge deny attack. These are all things I'm guilty of doing right. Exactly. Are you going to choose to go down those or. Are you going to see it as something slightly different? And you're going to go down the right hand side, which is viewing it as an opportunity to learn and get better.
And that is so big. Two, two things, Mark. Number one, do you remember Jaco Willink? He was like problems or opportunities, right? It's like, there's a problem. And do you remember what he would say? Good. I can't do a real Jaco. I got to do a few twos and a in the middle [00:08:00] East, but this is good. And the other person this takes me to is way, way back in, deep into our back catalog.
Zahara had, did. She faced as a female immigrant architect, uh, in the sixties in London, you know, she was kind of challenging the ultimate boys club and she's like, every problem I face just makes me stronger. And what Ryan holiday started to do in the back half of that clip, he showed you that once you accept problems happen, Once you accept that you can be comfortable.
Hey, it's, it's hurting a little bit that some problems, I must be doing something, right. Because I'm encountering challenge. Then the highest form of this practice is you then say, great. Just like at the gym it's hurting. My muscles must be getting bigger. Just like [00:09:00] your potential gets bigger. The more challenges you over.
Com who, who I, you feeling the obstacle is the way, man. Um, and you know what, it just makes a lot of sense, you know, and it's something that I'm, I'm so guilty of in my, my day-to-day life, uh, you know, of, of doing the left-hand path, so to speak of getting, you know, uh, passing out the lame avoidance and it reminds me of, you know, like a sports team.
The sports team are to get better at when they're playing a team who challenge them, that's around. Right. That's that's right. And, and if you can, if you can find the ability to overcome your fight or flight. Response to hardship and you can just say it's all right. It's all right. And I, you know, you've heard me talk a lot about, uh, when you run and jog quite fast, um, whenever [00:10:00] you push into a really high peak cardio rate, there are these moments.
We go, Oh my gosh, my breathing is very fast. That's not healthy. Maybe I should stop, but if you can say no, it's okay. I'm in control. I know it's a bit uncomfortable, but I can learn to become comfortable with it. It is exactly the same as working on a project, building a product, putting together a paper and event, whatever you're doing.
If you can just say, okay. Yep. Challenge, lack of resources. Like a time, like, like a budget. All good. That's okay. Um, this means we're really on the cost of doing something meaningful here because, um, it's hard, right? Yeah. And if, if you can really program yourself, um, this can open up a huge world and I'm going to, uh, argue Mark that the.
The structure of our show today is going to give everyone, including ourselves, some really powerful tips on how we can embrace this idea of the obstacle as away way only. [00:11:00] That's right. So the three disciplines and principles that Ron holiday breaks down in his book, the obstacle is a way are, uh, helping us not only be aware and change our opinion around obstacles being opportunities, but actually they're relatively practical.
They're relatively. Uh, good frameworks and steps that us and our listeners can learn and go and action in our day-to-day life. So you mentioned, you mentioned there's three, right? It's it's about perception, action. And will, those are the big three, and we're going to dive into those and explore those and decode those.
And we're going to like really, uh, try and get our heads around them so we can put this stoic thinking into action. But before we do that, I am sure we are starting to get a lot of great feedback from listeners around who they want us to study on the show. But my please remind all of our listeners, where do they go?
If they want to share with [00:12:00] us their suggestions, who we might learn from on the show. We love hearing from our listeners, Mike and I employ all of those who are listening and consuming the podcast right now to pop along to www. Dot moonshots.io, where you can find not only our current, as well as archive shows or 113, when this episode goes live, as well as our future shows and the, the backlog of, uh, individuals that we want to go and cover in the future.
But. There's also a new nifty section on the website that you can navigate via the top bar called feedback. That's where we'd love our listeners to pop along. Leave us your thoughts, your feedback, and your criticisms, as well as your recommendations. And we've got a great show backlog right now. Mike, we've got Sarah macros on the way.
David Nunes, uh, Brian Clayton, Richard Fineman, Jeff Hoffman. There's all sorts of exciting individuals that are filling out our long, long list of [00:13:00] innovators to cover. And we want to that, that backlog just to keep on growing don't we Mike? So please listeners pop along, leave us your requests and, uh, innovator, uh, long lists.
And we will be digging in and learning out loud with them as well as you, our listeners. Over the course of the year. Well, I think, um, it's time for us to jump into the first of the three parts to embracing obstacles and the first is going to be perception that's right. And there, uh, just would be no more fitting place to stop then.
D-Day and battle of the bulge. So shortly after D-Day Eisenhower, he's, he's this sort of commander of the allied troops. Um, The the, the, the landing goes smoothly, but it's sort of making their way through the hedgerows of France that the, the allied troops get bogged down. And this leads to the sort of final, major Nazi counter attack.
It's a final Blitzkrieg. It's about [00:14:00] 200,000 troops. It's pretty much the worst thing that you could have that could happen after, uh, a major amphibious landing. Um, because you've got nowhere to go, right? You can't get back in the boats, go home. So, so everyone does, you know, sort of. What you would expect that they pretty much freak out, um, except for Eisenhower.
And there's this sort of magnificent scene. He calls all his generals into, uh, into a meeting in Malta where his headquarters are and he strides into this conference room. And this is the quote he says the present situation is to be regarded as opportunity for us and not disaster. There will be only cheerful faces at this conference table.
And the reason is after sort of being, um, repeatedly knocked around by this Blitzkrieg Panzer attack sort of mentality, um, he he'd finally seen that there was an opportunity in here provided that the allies actually bent around this attack instead of breaking, it would actually send, um, It, it, it would send the Nazis sort of running directly into a, into a trap, um, uh, patent at this meeting, [00:15:00] as Eisenhower's explaining it as he speaks up.
And he's like, it's like, they're sticking their head in a meat grinder, which is exactly sort of what they did. This becomes known as the Follies pocket. And later it becomes known as the battle of the bulge. Something like 50,000 German, German troops are captured in this one moment, precisely because of this idea, this idea of seeing it as an opportunity rather than a disaster.
And that, that was the problem with the attitude going through the Wars. They kept seeing this thing as being a universal negative and the idea of seeing it as an opportunity to do something different, the present situation is to be regarded as one of opportunity and not a disaster. How valid. And valuable is that right now?
I know. I know. And you can just imagine all the older folks in the room with Eisenhower, holding their heads down, uh, we're staffed, you know, we're done we're toast and he's like, he's just coming in, like slap them all in their head and said, Guys like no [00:16:00] think differently, have the power to control your response or your response.
It's your choice, how you want to perceive these things. And I think what's interesting is you've got the model that Eisenhower applied, but also. It's sort of refreshing to be reminded of these moments in history where in fact people made a choice to perceive things differently and benefited greatly from it.
So if your instill instilling a 2020 funk, Go back to this story, pick up the book. The obstacle is the way, and remember that people have overcome plenty, plenty more through just changing their perception. Yeah, exactly. That's totally right. Choose how you react to that situation. You know, for me, Uh, in a, in a realistic environment, I'm not necessarily Eisenhower in the world.
I'm in my own war room a couple of times a day, right? Yeah, yeah. [00:17:00] Or challenges, whatever it might be. And this is a great reminder. You're right. It's it could be a lot worse. And fundamentally, if Eisenhower can choose to take a breath and re uh, uh, twist his, his reaction. So the situation or Marcus Aurelius, most powerful man in Rome can, uh, you know, twist his reaction to, uh, challenges as well.
Then why can't I it's, this is a great motivator, I think. Yeah. And, and I think the trap let's, let's try and paint the picture that we can all relate to, which is where we sort of become unaware that we're just responding to. Situations where something goes wrong and we're like, Oh, that person always stuffs it up.
Right. We instantly judge and blame. And I think what Ryan holiday is doing for us, it's like, baby, [00:18:00] you need to like take a step back and remember that you might not control if that person was late on delivering something to you, you don't control that, but you have. Complete total 100% control of how you choose to respond to that situation.
Now, I think this is like a great starting point for all of us. Remember that response is a choice. So if we want to be doom and gloom or depressed about something somewhere deep inside us, we know that there is a choice to perceive events as such. The other thing here is that. If we become more, uh, aware of that choice, then we can begin to go on a different sort of journey and.
Yeah. We often at the moment are referring to the hangover attorney [00:19:00] 20 Mark, but really, as we come into this new year, I think it's a chance for you, for me and all of our listeners to go. Right. Okay. Maybe whatever obstacles we are facing, there is a great temptation. To feel pity and sorrow for oneself, but there's also a chance to be inspired.
There's a chance to see new opportunities and this next clip is going to lead us there. And this time we're not going to listen to Ryan holiday, but we are going to listen to a moonshot favorite. Let's have a listen to none other than Mr. Steve jobs talking about how we can learn from obstacles. I was lucky.
I found, what I love to do early in life was, and I started Apple in my parents' garage when I was 20, we worked hard and in 10 years, Apple had grown from just the two of us in a garage into a $2 billion company with over 4,000 employees. We just released our finest [00:20:00] creation, the Macintosh a year earlier, and I just turned 30 and then I got fired.
How can you get fired from a company you started? Well, As Apple grew, we hired someone who I thought was very talented to run the company with me and for the first year or so, things went well. But then our visions of the future began to diverge. And eventually we had a falling out when we did our board of directors sided with him.
And so at 30, I was out and very publicly out what had been the focus of my entire adult life was gone and it was devastating. I really didn't know what to do for a few months. I felt that I had let the previous generation of entrepreneurs down, that I had dropped the Baton as it was being passed to me.
I met with David Packard and Bob Noyce, and tried to apologize for screwing up so badly. I was a very public failure and I even thought about running away from the Valley, but something slowly began to Dawn on me. I [00:21:00] still loved what I did. The turn of events at Apple had not changed that one bit. I'd been rejected, but I was still in love.
And so I decided to start over. I didn't see it then, but it turned out that getting fired from Apple was the best thing that could've ever happened to me. The heaviness of being successful was replaced by the lightness of being a beginner. Again, less sure about everything. It freed me to enter one of the most creative periods of my life.
During the next five years, I started a company named next. Another company named Pixar and fell in love with an amazing woman who would become my wife Pixar went on to create the world's first computer animated feature, film toy story, and is now the most successful animation studio in the world in a remarkable of events, Apple bought next.
And I returned to Apple and the technology we developed at next is at the heart of Apple's current Renaissance and Laurene. And I have a wonderful [00:22:00] family together. I'm pretty sure none of this would have happened. If I hadn't been fired from Apple, it was awful tasting medicine, but I guess the patient needed it sometime life.
Sometimes life's gonna hit you in the head with a brick don't lose faith. Hmm, such a great little speech, isn't it? You can, you can take so much from that one. I mean, let's just start with the pure fact. Look, if Steve jobs can get fired right. Then look, we can all get fired and it's no big deal. Um, you know, and sure.
He's got the benefit of hindsight there, but. You can see how he's able to see what must have been so tempting to get into a big funk, to reject everything runaway escape denied judge, but somehow he could find that he still loved what he did and he toiled built. Next next got [00:23:00] acquired here, return and the rest, as they say is history.
But. You know, for me, it's, it's really good to know, like people like Steve jobs, they really, he did really make a lot of big mistakes in that first chapter of Apple. Like he really did sort of, Steve jobs can make mistakes, then we're all allowed to make mistakes. What was most important is he learned from the mistakes?
And boy, did he learn because that is one hell of a comeback. So, I mean, come back, talk about, it would be an understatement. I mean, you can't, yeah. It's hard to overstate. I think what's also nice about that particular story. That particular clip is. You know, Steve jobs references this guilt about letting down the, uh, the generation of, of entrepreneurs and innovators.
And that's probably an emotion that a lot of us feel, uh, when we run into obstacles, guilt for letting down the team, letting [00:24:00] down the friends, family, whatever it is, it's, it's a, it's an emotion that we all have experienced and will experience again. And what's really wonderful about hearing Steve jobs.
Describe it is we always think of him as this ultimate. Moons shelter, uh, almost untouched and exactly to your point, he was able to, you know, go through that rough patch over a number of years at the age of 30, you know, very young, very young guy at the time. And he still came back up. He still turned that into a moment of, okay, well, I'm I'm lighter is, is that words are I'm lighter and therefore able to do more creative work because I was removed from it.
And, you know, I mean, next Pixar, I mean, come on. Well, I list a perfect iteration of an obstacle such as being fired, becoming an opportunity to create new products, new projects, new businesses, or new ways of living. It's a perfect visualization of, of Ron holiday's book. The obstacle is [00:25:00] the way. So when we, when we get really bad news, when things don't work out as hoped or as planned, how do, how do you Mark pause and say, okay, I want to be in control of how I'm going to perceive these events, how I'm going to pivot and perceive and learn from this situation.
How do you catch yourself and say, Oh, Don't go down the rabbit hole pretty hard. It's pretty hard to avoid going down the mental rabbit hole, for sure. I think there's a, there's a couple of different things. I probably do the first of which, uh, as we've spoken about before, is if it's really, if it's really bad news, let's say you've got a phone call or an email or a message from a colleague or whatever it is.
Don't react immediately, instead of let's have a, let's have a beat, you know, let's, we'll be around the block, let's have a breath, whatever is, you know, your version of [00:26:00] taking a moment, uh, do it because reacting immediately is too emotional and that can be, uh, you know, kind of like gas on a fire. Right. And I think instead it's better to sort of steal your mind and reframe things and come back to it later.
Um, But it will say. And just one final thing, Mike, and I want to hear how you do it. What I then might do is I might check out my mantras, check out my list of, you know, bits of advice that we've learned from some of our other moons, shelters and innovators are little tips such as Ryan holiday. You know, if I was in a challenge and I read the obstacle is the way I might think.
Okay, great. That's reframe this and see it as an opportunity. How about you, Mike? How do you, how do you respond to things like that? Yeah. I love your, I definitely love the thing. Don't be too quick. Be a little thoughtful and reflective. Um, As you [00:27:00] probably have, have worked out is that, um, through my own mistakes, I've, I've really tried to build a, uh, like a default habit of attacking the gray, attacking the problem, meaning that, um, I try to get into it, break it down.
Create a plan, do the best I can in that moment. And then the hardest thing is, is say, okay, there's a problem. I'm on it. I'm fixing it. I've got a plan. I've got a plan B and I have today done the best I can do to resolve that. There is nothing more to consider and. Whatever you do, don't start spinning on all the variables and permutations just.
And this is like, I mean, without spoiling the next [00:28:00] book from, from Ryan holiday, he, he, he uses a quote from Martin Luther King, which is there is a civil war raging in all of us and it's between, uh, you know, positive and negative thinking. Right? And so this civil war rage is within me to not think about it.
Wonder about it once I have given it my best effort for the day, the great battle that I go through is like putting it in a box, putting it away, let it be, it'll be there in the morning and we'll crack on then. So this is, I think one of the most important things for all of us, uh, to find wellbeing, particularly because.
Our working lives have changed so much. Um, we don't have the, the detox, uh, of a commute into the office, perhaps as frequently as we used to. We don't have [00:29:00] maybe those chats at the, at the, at the, at the water cooler, just to let off some steam. So for me attacking the problem, don't leave. Don't like, pretend it's just going to fix itself because.
Once you address it and confront the obstacle, you can then start to break it down and move through it. I mean, this is the civil war that rages in me because I feel like if I do the work to attack the problem and then reach a moment where I can say I have done what I can today. And then go and find stillness after that, because I think what, you know, the reason we sleep bad, I think the reason that we can't think clearly we all get a bit foggy or as they say in Australia, you get a bit dusty it's because you're just spinning on all the, what ifs, maybes house, you know, like put it to bed, put it in the box, pick it up in the morning.
I mean, that is for [00:30:00] me. That's how, um, you know, I turn. Obstacles into opportunities. That's how I can learn from them and costs that, frame them in a very positive trajectory rather than allowing the, uh, you know, the OMG, the WTF kind of thoughts. So that for me is, is really the, where the rubber hits the road for all of us, which is if you can have a bias towards positive.
Thinking to see possibility in challenge rather than to indulge blame, judgment, disappointment, stress, and anxiety. Okay. It's a thing. Everybody gets things, Eisenhower had it, Steve jobs had it. Like if you can, if you can, whatever your practices. I think that that's the moment where you can be comfortable with the obstacles ma'am yeah.
Yeah. So [00:31:00] obstacles. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. Doing something right. Because you know, a lot of people use that analogy. Like if, um, if, uh, people are criticizing you in public, then you must be doing something great in the same way. If you're encountering challenge. Well, okay. Just like at the gym. Yeah. If it's getting a bit tough, well then you're really working out aren't you?
Yeah. I love this idea of changing your perception to that obstacle. And instead of, you know, having that negative feeling of dread, if an obstacle comes up, if you can reframe your mind as you are discussing. And instead react in a more positive way and say, Oh, it's an obstacle. All right. This is an opportunity for me to learn.
This is an opportunity for me to demonstrate or even practice the skills I've been learning. Then, then your reaction to it is naturally going to be far more positive. That's right. I know a lot of people use a thing where they actually, um, did this [00:32:00] visualization where they actually take on the third person.
They look at the situation, not through their eyes or perhaps the eyes of the person that they're maybe having some challenges with, but rather from a, from a third person, Ooh, kind of hovering above and playing it more like a chess game. So once you remove your personal relationship, Then you're able to control your emotions better.
So what's quite interesting is, um, uh, you know, when I, when I meet folks, uh, entrepreneurs who are on these adventures, And they say, Oh, here here's what's going on. What do you think? And what would you do? What's quite interesting is how clear everything is for me when I don't have a horse in the race.
Exactly. I was talking to someone the other day and they're telling me this story. And, and, um, I asked them the question. When was the last time you and the other [00:33:00] founders spent a day out of the office talking about. Where you guys want this business to go. And their answer was, we've never done that. Um, and it was so clear to me and this person is immensely intelligent and accomplished, but it was just clear to me.
I was like, Oh, it sounds, yeah. Just sounds like an alignment thing. You're like, I have no equity in the company. They're not a client. It's just different. It was just so clear to me and so powerful for them because they, they were lost. They were lost. That's such a great tip. The third person point of view.
You're right. It is when you remove slightly from that situation, then that is that, could it be an opportunity for you to provide that extra different point of view or perception? And I mean, wow, what a, what a great, what a great tip and what a great bounce or build on from Ron. Holly's the discipline of perception, right?
That's so valuable and that is [00:34:00] what's so exciting is we've done the first of the three parts Mark. I mean, there's plenty more to come. How good is that? We're only, we're only one of three disciplines of the way through this book. There's just so much to unlock. Isn't there. There is now, now listen, if folks are listening to the show and they want to follow up on some of the things that we talk about, um, some of the links to, to whether it's books or videos, but where can they get all this information?
Our listeners, you can pop along to www dot moonshots. Dot IO for the latest episodes are archive of our 113 shows our favorite mantras, our feedback section, our blog and all that sort of good stuff. And within each of our shows, we also like to add a load, a plethora of information, such as. Uh, links to our clips, our show outlines as well as any other additional learning material that we think is really nicely connected.
And, uh, I think that is the perfect moment for us to talk about this [00:35:00] idea of taking action and you know, what is so great. Um, Mark about Ryan holiday is he can. Peak, just the most amazing spectrum of people from history. It's ridiculous. Isn't it? Whether it's great, Roman Greek, philosophers or entrepreneurs is it's ridiculous how he can, he can title.
Yeah. And this next connection and build the Ron holiday is going to, um, demonstrate is the American civil war. So we're going to hear about the concept and. Discipline of action. So we've learned about perception and seeing obstacles as, as challenges and opportunities. And now we're going to hear about how to take action.
And this clip from Ron holiday is describing Ulysses S grant ending the American civil war. So grant basically has to bet everything he can, uh, on, on, on an, an unconventional approach to Vicksburg. So what he does, he runs his gun boats or his, his boats pass the gun batteries. So w they were up here now [00:36:00] they're down here.
Um, and they can never go back up. And so what does he decide to do? He marches his men all the way down. They cross at a, at a, at a town appropriately named hard times, Louisiana. Um, he crosses the river and then he does something that runs, uh, essentially counter to all military theory. He cuts his supply lines and he decides that his men are going to live off the land.
And they're not going to take Vicksburg at all. They March, uh, East, even though they're supposed to be taking the city, they March very far East and they take Jackson, Mississippi. They burn the Capitol. Um, and then they decide, okay, now finally, we're going to go West back towards Vicksburg and you can sort of see what this happens.
Even if you don't care about the military at all, by going down crossing, he, he cuts his supply lines, takes their supply lines. And now what does this fortress become? It becomes a prison, right? This fortress is now trapped. The exact men who are using it as protection it's it's now, now a siege and he lays siege to Vicksburg.
He ends up. [00:37:00] He takes it about a month later, they surrender on July 4th. Little known fact, uh, it sort of illustrates, uh, the, the interestingness of the American South, which is where I, I currently live. Um, Vicksburg does not celebrate the 4th of July until, uh, until 1945 in protest of losing this battle.
Um, so, so, but what's so fast. about grant is first off. It's a, it's an illustration of perseverance, right. And persistence. He tries every possible thing that you can. Um, he doesn't give up and it's in fact in sort of trying all these things, he figures out what doesn't work and he, in desperation, he tries an option cutting his supply lines that ultimately paves the way for the strategy that wins the American civil war, which is, um, Sherman's March to Atlanta.
Um, he, he discovers accidentally the way that he wins the civil war. The concept of, of sort of maneuver warfare becomes sort of well known because of this [00:38:00] in, in trying all the ways that didn't work, he finds the way that does work. And so it's this idea of, again, the obstacle being the way, this thing that you think is a problem becomes if you push through it hard enough, a source of advantage and operator Trinity.
Wow. I mean, The, the, the idea that you can really. Take the initiative with this. I think this is where the empowerment really starts, where you can start to relieve yourself of the burden of the weight of something not working out. As you had wished the weight of challenge of almost the impossible bearing upon you.
This idea of leaping. Interaction. I think this is the start of where you can really hit your stride and not let things get the better of you where you can take the initiative. I think this is just what a great story [00:39:00] about taking action for me, it shows or reminds me that the perfect conditions or the perfect scenario solution.
Doesn't always. A peer that easily, you might find in your day-to-day life, or, you know, you might be in the civil war and you might be looking for that solution. You might be looking for an opportunity, but actually sometimes that opportunity isn't immediately clear. Yeah. Does it not remind you of those people who are forever?
Yeah. I'm gonna, I'm going to do this big thing, right? I'm I'm gonna launch a company. I'm gonna launch a podcast. I'm gonna launch this, that, and you're like, Hey, how's it going? Yeah, almost there. And like they so overthink it. They get paralyzed through lack of action. Paralyzed through lack of action is exactly where I think that clip goes.
Ulysses grant, what do you, what does he do? He, as, as Ron holiday calls out, he has [00:40:00] perseverance. He find out he, he demonstrates, uh, and explores, finds out things that don't work in order to find out the thing that does. And how good, how much of a moonshot thinker is that? The propensity to go out and give it a go to test and learn to refine and ultimately to succeed.
Yeah, this bias towards action is I think rooted so much in this moonshot thinking, because you know, you can be super smart and cerebral. Um, and you know, there are so many, uh, people have talked about, you know, ideas are easy. Execution is hard. Um, and I think there's bias towards action, particularly when you're a learner, particularly when you're like, okay, so it didn't work.
What are we going to do next? How could we do it better? Um, I, I think this is a real important starting point. I'm actually going to [00:41:00] challenge, uh, and, and take this a level higher Mark. I would say the bias towards action. We could perceive as like, do something for your project, for your product, for your company, for them.
Whatever you're working on. But I would say when in doubt, as a human being have a bias towards movement. So I think there's this huge parallel here, because what I have found is when, in doubt I move. So for example, when I'm trying to work through stuff in my study or at the office, and I feel really stuck.
Do you know, what's really funny in order to have a bias towards action. In my work movement of my body becomes an agent like a, like a trigger to get my head thinking to get my momentum. So there's this [00:42:00] huge correlation. If you want bias towards action in your work, you should have a bias towards movement as a human walk.
Go outside, breathe it in, go for a run, move your body and you'll be able to move your, so when you have a, a challenge comes into your to-do list or email Mike won't, what might you do? What might be your immediate reaction or reaction to maybe feeling a little bit stale or as you say dusty? Yeah, well, yeah, for me, it's like.
Um, my let's, let's kind of get into this just a bit, like, so imagine, um, you've realized that something you expected to happen has not happened. Whether it's someone delivering something or it's being delivered a different way, or someone promised three, and now it's only two and July, you had to shoot and you would have the complete thing at the right [00:43:00] time in order for you to move things along.
And it's now. Really hard to move things along because you'd been working to an, an, a, an assumption and often what I will find I'll dig into something like going through documents and emails, all of this sort of stuff. And one of the interesting things is, you know, I often find myself. I'm looking at something on the screen and going, geez, well, how am I going to, how am I going to solve this?
What am I going to do about this? And when I feel like there are no answers coming, what I try to do and what I have experimented with as Adam at a minimum, I get up. And, um, I work at my desk standing up. I changed the environment. So if I'm at the office, I'll go out of my office to one of the standing desks or to, to the lounge.
Or if I'm working at my house, I'll go outside, out to the [00:44:00] back deck and I'll work out there. I'll change up. I'll move. And what's really interesting is that there are a life. I mean, the history is full of lifelong lessons of movement being really important, um, to help the mind to clear the mind. So I really think that in those moments, sometimes I'll stretch.
Sometimes I'll stand, uh, and work, standing up, change my environment, go for a walk. Um, what, whatever, I mean, just experiment. Right. See, see what helps you to take action? Because you know, how many times do you meet people who talk about the importance of whatever activity generally in the morning, but. Can be any time, whether it's walking to the office, swimming in the morning, riding a bike in the morning, doing yoga, playing a team sport, [00:45:00] how they talk about it being sort of a, you know, a very important thing to start their engines.
And, um, really, if you want to take action sometimes just go for a walk outside, have a, what I call the walk and talk. Um, sometimes this can just. Dust get the dust out, get the cobwebs out of the corners and you can come back and sit back and look at something fresh and just get going. Yeah. It's um, so, so on the same page with you, it's just, it's the same lessons and tips that, you know, we've been hearing from William H McRaven from Jaco willing from, um, You know, Goggins all these individuals who have this propensity to movement.
It's so true. Once you engage your, your body, your mind naturally [00:46:00] follows. And I think that's such a great, that's a great tip. Yeah. And a big part of the next book from Ryan holiday stillness is he talks about the great irony that in order to find stillness, you need to move, but I don't want to steal too much from the next book, but yeah.
It's really interesting, isn't it? That, that what we tend to see is, uh, these very strong ritualistic habits practices that sets you up to be resilient. And we've talked about how we perceive the things around us. Right. It's that's a choice. We've talked about triggering action, right? Don't wait for perfect.
Because you know, it's the classic thing. Oh, it's just not quite the right time to launch my new product. Okay. Yeah. Well, it's never going to be the right time. Let me tell you, so, you know, we've done the perception and action thing, but it really sets us up now to kind of tackle this [00:47:00] third and final piece to Ryan holiday's work obstacles away.
Yeah, this third batch, this third discipline that Ron Holly's gonna talk to us about is the discipline of well Mike and this one, we've got our perception. We've got our propensity to action, but it all begins with knowing you can't always control the situation. So let's hear Ron Holly, give us another fantastic modern history example with Thomas Edison and how to appreciate the fire.
Um, and then the discipline of will, which is the sort of third and most important discipline, which is that we don't control what happens to us. We control how we respond. Um, so Edison is 67 long day at his factory. He comes home, uh, he's sitting down to dinner, they rush in, uh, I'm sorry, the is on fire. So he rushes back to work and he finds his son who is, uh, obviously heartbroken at this idea.
He's a total mess and, and Eisenhower or sorry, Edison. Um, Sort of utters these immortal words. He says, [00:48:00] go get your mother and all her friends. They'll never see a fire like this again. And he's right. Not only are the buildings not insured, so it's not going to happen again. But more importantly, he stores all these weird chemicals in the buildings to the fire.
It's this weird, beautiful fire. It's all these different colors. And this is what he's saying. He's not lost his mind. In fact, this fire invigorates him. He says I've been through a lot of things like this before it prevents a man from being afflicted with on wheat. He says this to a reporter the next day, he ends up taking a million dollar loan from Henry Ford.
He rebuilds the factory. It's the sort of the, the event later in life that gives Edison this sort of second, the second act. It's a really magnificent scene and, and. It's the idea that look, he doesn't control the fire. Uh, he can't put it out. Yeah. I think the firetruck at the time was drawn by a horse. So there's nothing that you can do about it, but control his response and his response, I think is pretty magnificent.
Ooh, Thomas Edison, everything is up in flames. He's like quick go and get everyone at spectrum. My [00:49:00] gut. I mean, I don't know how much truth there isn't it, but the story is just perfect. Isn't it? It's great. Go and get the camera. You might as well enjoy this present moment, you know, for me, it's so easy to get caught up in the flames and.
You almost feel burned out or exhausted by it. And instead of thinking, this is the end of the world, this is a nightmare. My career is ruined instead, you know, similar to Steve jobs, his reaction to getting fired from Apple, where Edison's going here is okay. Well, the factory is on fire. Nevermind. Let's we'll get over it tomorrow, but right here right now, let's just sit back.
We can't control it. We can't put out the fire ourselves. Let's just almost enjoy it. I know. And I think that's a great story that again, illustrates or visualizes Ron holiday's point of the obstacles, the way, see challenges as opportunities to take that path less traveled and go [00:50:00] and use it as a moment to either have an adventure or to grow that little bit more with experience.
And I just think, I think that clip. Yeah, we're around. Discipline of wealth is so rich. So, how do you, when the fire is burning my Huck, when something's going, not quite as one hopes, how do you to find the means to say, Hey quick, let's look at the fire. I think it's something I'm going to put into practice more following, you know, digging into, into this, this book the way.
But I mean, until now I think my. My challenge has always been exactly as we were talking about earlier, not reacting too quick. So very quick one would be, Oh, go and get the pails, go and get the water. But then without actually thinking, hang on, this fire is the size of a factory, a couple of buckets for me.
Isn't going to put it out. That that would be [00:51:00] my natural reaction normally anyway. And, um, I'm I think now going forward, what I'm going to challenge myself with doing is. Remember and contextualize where I am, what I can do. Okay. Well maybe my team aren't available or maybe my, uh, the tools that I need to build this solution aren't, uh, you know, scoped out or whatever it might be and instead think.
Okay, well, let's just, again, pause. Let's put the toolbox together. Let's get all the facts. Let's think about what can and can't happen. Um, in order to then drive towards that solution. And, you know, the Edison example is, Hey, he looked at all the solutions and right now there isn't one. So let's sit back and watch the flames.
I think for me, if I get into a position like that, what I'm going to challenge myself with doing is, is having that clearness of mind, like clarity and rather than reacting so quickly and, and [00:52:00] worrying or ruining. My, uh, my working day or how I collaborate with somebody. Yeah. You know, there's a number of different ways.
How obstacles can actually damage the way that you work. Not only with reacting in a, in an aggressive or pointing the blame way that we were talking about earlier, it can also impact longterm your relationship with people, you know, five point the blame immediately as somebody and say, Hey, you started the fire.
Hey, we might not, we might never recover. So having the clearness in mind to just sit back and say, okay, well, let me take a breath before I react or pointing the finger. That might actually benefit myself as well as those around me in the long run. I think so. Yeah. No, I mean, nobody wants to hang out with someone who's constantly casting blame and judgment around the room.
I mean, that's just one bad vibe, but I tell you what's not a bad vibe Mark. And that is this last clip from Ryan holiday where [00:53:00] he. Really kind of wraps it up with a few closing thoughts. So let's listen for the last time today. Let's listen to Ryan holiday talking about perception, action, and will be this last one.
Marcus released late in his reign. He becomes very sick and, and, uh, and, and as, as he's dealing with this sickness, uh, uh, rumor spreads that he's going to die. And one of his generals, uh, attempts to lead a coup. Um, he declares himself eligible for the throne and, and, uh, really, instead of being upset by this, he decides that this is a chance to practice clemency and mercy on perhaps the largest scale that it's ever happened.
This is a chance to teach a nation how to deal with a civil war. And so he says, we're going to March to forgive a man who has wronged one to remain a friend to one who has transgressed friendship to continue faithful to one who has broken faith. And so it's this inspiring example. It's something I think about when I fail.
Difficulties in my own life. And [00:54:00] then we have Marcus released his words just as a summary for my talk that hopefully can provide some, some direction and solace to everyone here. And these are the three disciplines, right? This is stoicism. In a nutshell, he says, objective judgment. Now at this very moment, unselfish action.
Now at this very moment, willing acceptance now at this very moment of all external events. Discipline of perception, discipline of action. Discipline of will. That is all you need. So thank you very much. It's awesome to be here. Uh, talk soon, acceptance at this very moment. Objective now at this very moment, I mean, it's all about being present.
Be present, be aware, be with those in the very moment. Don't get caught up in your, in your own mind. Yeah. And, um, the, the very powerful thing there is that if you do that in the moment, then you will, um, avoid a rush to judgment or blame, and [00:55:00] you will avoid it that knock on anxiety and stress because you were in the moment you've done everything you can, what will be, will be, I mean, pretty good stuff.
Right? Pretty good. And again, great demonstration timeless lesson. That's still has so much weight in the here and now I know it, it just astounds me that he can go back 3000 years find things that seem like they were for 2021. It is. And then along the way, he'll sprinkle in some, uh, you know, few, few bits of modern history, maybe a few sporting analogies.
And I think the great news is we've still got another show on Ryan holiday to go. And what was for me? Uh, I mean, it's, it's a, it's a, it's really, it's really interesting. I mean, all of the books have been very powerful. I mean, this next one's still in, this is the way Holy smoke. Is that good? Yeah, this is going to be a great, uh, bookend, so to speak of our Ron holiday series.
[00:56:00] Stillness is the key. I can't wait to dig into it, Mike. I know it's going to be awesome. So we w it seems like, uh, dare I say, um, the, um, uh, not rushing to judgment, not, uh, you know, jumping to ideas seems to be. The key thing that's popped up for you with the obstacles way. Would that be fair? Yeah, that's exactly.
What's really come through for me. It's the awareness and it's the taking a moment to respond, um, appreciating, uh, the fire sentence. Yeah. Use that, that kind of objective judgment to not react to things too quickly. Yeah for me. I mean, I like that one, but for me it was the Thomas Edison one, that story of just you've done your best.
So just appreciate the fire, you know, embrace whatever's going to happen. You know, that's, that's, that's really powerful. Well, Mark w you know, we got one more show left, but I think for today, [00:57:00] I think we might be done. Yeah. Loved digging into the obstacle is the way by Ron huddles. What our show one, one, three, this one has been Mike, so many lessons.
Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Matt, for, for, you know, really us working through this together and thank you to you. Our listeners who have gone on a journey into the world of problems, where they are not dark, nasty, scary, very things, but where problems are opportunities. And that really is the starting point for the book.
The obstacle is the way. And the truth really is that problems happen and we need to make them opportunities. And the starting point for that is how we perceive the events around us, because the great museums, whilst we don't control those events, we do control our thoughts. And we need to jump into the obstacle.
We need to lean in to the obstacle. It is in fact, the way, because it gives us a chance to make something new, to create new [00:58:00] opportunities. And what we learned from Ryan holiday is the way to do that is a bias towards action. So do your beret, do your very, very best and embrace. And that happens because in the end, you, Alison is have the power to choose, to use your perception.
Your action and you'll will. All right. That's it for the moonshots podcast. That's a wrap.