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Welcome to Live Free Ride Free, where we talk to people who have lived self-actualized lives on their own terms, and find out how they got there, what they do, how we can get there, what we can learn from them. How to live our best lives, find our own definition of success, and most importantly, find joy.
Your Host is New York Times bestselling author Rupert Isaacson. Long time human rights activist, Rupert helped a group of Bushmen in the Kalahari fight for their ancestral lands. He's probably best known for his autism advocacy work following the publication of his bestselling book "The Horse Boy" and "The Long Ride Home" where he tells the story of finding healing for his autistic son. Subsequently he founded New Trails Learning Systems an approach for addressing neuro-psychiatric conditions through horses, movement and nature. The methods are now used around the world in therapeutic riding program, therapy offices and schools for special needs and neuro-typical children.
You can find details of all our programs and shows on www.RupertIsaacson.com
Rupert Isaacson: Thanks for joining us.
Welcome to Live Free, Ride Free.
I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson, New
York Times bestselling author of
The Horseboy and The Long Ride Home.
Before I jump in with today's guest, I
want to say a huge thank you to you, our
audience, for helping to make this happen.
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To find out about our certification
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please go to rupertisaacson.com.
So now let's jump in.
Welcome back.
As always, I've got someone very exciting.
This is Denise Byron, and some of you
may know her from podcasts with, for
example, Warwick Schiller and others,
and she's sort of become the horse
person's astrologer in a strange way.
And I was lucky enough to meet Denise
at Warwick Schiller's journey on summit
in England year and a half or so ago.
And we were both speakers there.
And I'm always a little bit afraid
when I meet astrology witchy people,
'cause I always think they, they're
going to see right through me and see
what an imposter I am in every way.
And so I tend to run and hide
in other parts of the building.
But then I, I met Denise and
found that in fact, no, she
was very warm and empathetic.
And so I've worked up the courage to
have her on the show and therefore to
ask her all the sort of astrology type
questions, particularly from a horseman's
perspective that I think a lot of us would
like to ask, but often feel a bit shy too.
So Denise, thank you for coming on.
Can you tell us who you are
and sort of why you are and
how you came to be as you are?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Oh,
that's a great question.
Well, like you, I am a curious
person, so that's the who of who I am.
I'm curious.
I want to learn as much as I can.
I want to be present.
I, how I came to be doing the work
that I do starts when I was very young.
So I'll just, it's a long, long story,
but I'll, I'll try to do my best to
make it concise when I was quite young.
I just love to look at the sky.
I love, I mean like all kids, right?
Lay on the ground, look at the stars,
watch what's happening around us, and
that feeling of wonderment never left.
Mm-hmm.
It just never left.
And when I was eight years old, and this
is a different part of the story, but
all combined, my grandmother died and she
was very, very much a part of my life.
A beautiful woman, very kind, very
loving gone way too young, of course.
But the night she died, I
didn't realize she was dying.
She showed up in my room and
we lived 3000 miles apart.
Rupert Isaacson: Where were you?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: I was in
California and she was in New York.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: And there
she was, and I thought, huh.
Grandma's visiting.
Cool.
And then I woke up the next morning or
got up the next morning and my mother
had to tell me that she had died.
And I was very distraught.
I was only eight, so I don't, maybe
I was even seven, seven or eight.
And I just, I, I knew that
death was bad in some form.
Like I knew I was gonna miss.
I mean, was it bad?
No, not really bad.
But something had changed that everyone
was sad and I had had cats pass before and
dogs, and so I knew that there was death
was something that you should realize.
Side note, having me on a
podcast means we're going to
talk about death at some point.
This is just a normal thing.
So death meant something very significant
and I, I knew that I was gonna miss
seeing my grandmother in person.
That being said, I was somewhat
amused at the fact that I
could actually talk to her.
So of course I said that to my mother.
I said, well, I mean, whatever words
my 8-year-old self said, I understand
she's gone, but she's in my room.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: And
fortunately my mother understood
because my mother had that, had a
very similar gift in that way as well.
So,
Rupert Isaacson: your mother put
her broomstick in the corner and
Denise Elizabeth Byron:
said, yeah, she now listen,
Rupert Isaacson: sticking my child.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
I think it would've been better if all
the women had just done that actually.
It would've just been a lot
easier to just, but, but not
so much during that time.
Actually, I will say from a more serious
point of view, women really have had to
struggle to be themselves over the years.
That is, that is actually true.
Anyway.
So talking to my grandmother, starting
to notice things are a little different.
Starting to see other things that
apparently other people can't see.
Rupert Isaacson: Quick pause question.
Yes.
So she doesn't just show up in your
room that one time and disappears,
Denise Elizabeth Byron: oh no,
Rupert Isaacson: she's with
me all the time goes, she
starts showing up regularly and
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: Saying,
and what does she say?
Does she say, clean your room?
Does she say no?
Say you should visit
the dentist more often.
Does she say the universe
is composed of love?
Does she say, what does she say?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: You know, I,
I love those questions because later
on I have to say, people will say all
kinds of things, but at that moment
in time, what was happening was this
sheer extraordinary energy of love.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Because that's
what I knew my grandmother to be.
Yeah.
You know, she was the person who
would hold me, hug me, teach me how to
crochet, you know, go for a walk with me.
And so there wasn't as much
conversation at that moment in time.
It was just a feeling
Rupert Isaacson: mm-hmm.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Of being held that
no matter what, I was going to be safe.
Which again, was an important, very
important message going forward in
my life from that time and, and on.
So having that energy there,
having her energy with me, opened
up the doors to other things.
So I was living a childhood where, and you
know, you know, the Irish, the Irish side.
I was living a childhood where there
were fairies and there were, you
know, we talked to all the animals.
It was really normal.
You talked to the bird, you talked
to the cat, you talked to the
cow, you talked to the horse.
Very normal in my, in my childhood
when it became not normal, was a
little bit later going into high
school, starting to realize other
people had not lived like this.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Denise Elizabeth Byron:
So, starting to shut down.
And I think this is a story
I would imagine almost every
single one of your listeners has.
There's a certain point where the
shutting down starts to happen.
Sometimes it's sooner.
In my case, it was just a little later,
which gave me more time to normalize
it and to realize from the brain, oh,
this might not be appropriate for this
setting, so I'm gonna dial it back.
So I knew early on that there were
messages that wanted to come through.
There were loved ones on the
other side, and that the stars
in particular held messages.
And now I will actually
answer your question.
I think my brain when I was young
was, is it's wired differently.
So I couldn't read until I was
much older, probably eight or nine.
And so.
Hieroglyphics actually became a language.
So you have to think of the time.
So late sixties, early seventies,
there's all of this energy around
the Rosetta Stone and the, you
know, all of the hieroglyphics, all
Rupert Isaacson: the new
agey stuff is happening.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah, yeah.
It's all happening.
So it was normal to see hieroglyphics
show up, national Geographic, whatever.
Right.
And they made sense to me.
My brain could understand the visual
of a symbol, but I couldn't understand
how letters and words on a page worked.
So I just, I plastered my bedroom with
pictures of planets and hieroglyphics
and, and I just, that was my world.
And then music, and I don't know if
you can, I don't know if you play,
do you play a musical instrument?
Rupert Isaacson: I do, but yeah.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
So, you know, when you're reading
music, you're looking at symbols.
And the symbols, they
speak, they have energy.
They tell you, okay, I play the piano,
so press this note, and then press
it soft, or press it hard, you know,
depending on what you see on the, mm-hmm.
On the sheet music.
So my brain was really wired for symbols.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
Denise Elizabeth Byron:
So next part of the story.
My mother decides to become an amateur
astrologer because it's the seventies.
And Linda Goodman has written a
great book, star Signs, and then
her other sun signs and love signs.
And so my mother's into
this, so she becomes
Rupert Isaacson: up.
A quick, quick question just
before you go on with your mother.
Is your grandmother showing up nightly?
Does it begin to fade?
If so, at what point
does it begin to fade?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah,
that's a great question.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: She was there
every day for a very, very long time.
Very long time to the point where my
my one uncle who's passed actually
all my uncles have passed now, but
the one uncle, he would say, so
have you heard from Grandma Ties?
Have you heard from her?
Yeah.
Every day.
So it became kind of like this.
I, I realize now they, they
had to make light of it.
'cause it was a little
scary for a lot of people.
Like, is she a little weird?
What's happening?
You know, is she okay?
So anyway, yes, she showed up for
many years, every day and honestly
Rupert Isaacson: into your past puberty.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Oh yes.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Oh, yes.
Into my twenties and thirties.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: I would
say now, I can access her.
That's how I would say it.
I can go to that level of
energy that was my grandmother
and I can access that energy.
But I've
Rupert Isaacson: often, I imagine you
went, but around the time you start
getting into boys saying, grandma, can you
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
Look the other way.
Well, yeah.
Okay.
So good question.
You, you land on a great question
that everybody wants to know.
Everybody wants to know.
Do they spy on you?
Okay.
Everyone wants to know this.
You have to tell them not to.
I have a great story.
Can we, can we go into
the weight R section?
Rupert Isaacson: You do because it's what
everybody wants to know and they, and
Denise Elizabeth Byron: everybody wants
Rupert Isaacson: to know this.
Then we'll go back to your mum
being a, a a, an amateur astrologer.
Yeah.
Okay.
Go on.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Okay.
We'll come back to that.
This is more fun.
Okay.
I mean, you know, I mean it's great.
Yeah, sure.
The whole astrology thing is
what I do, but this is, this
is another part of my work.
Rupert Isaacson: Atrology ology.
Let's go to
Denise Elizabeth Byron: rra.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So my first mentor, an incredible
woman, I'm gonna tell you this story
'cause this is where I learned it.
But at this time, I'm 21 years old, so
I don't know anything about any of this.
This has just been my life.
My grandmother's with me.
I just, I mean, I have to
say I kissed a lot of boys.
So if she was there, I just
didn't pay attention 'cause Right.
Rupert Isaacson: But
she never commented on.
Denise Elizabeth Byron:
She did not comment.
She was always there.
Just, you know, and, and again,
did, did we have conversations,
we did have conversations.
They often looked like,
what am I gonna do?
And she'd say, you're gonna be safe.
And this, and once in a while she would
give, and this, this answers another
question that people often ask too.
She would give me information
that would help me discern, but
I had to make my own decision.
Mm-hmm.
She did not tell me what to do.
She would just be there
as this added bonus.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: As a, as a added
consciousness if you were, you know?
Mm-hmm.
Just something like that.
So anyway, my first mentor, she
was shared with us that you had to
create boundaries because when she
was, she was an incredible psychic.
She worked with police departments,
helping find children, actually,
and I mean, it was, the seventies
in California was a really tough
time, unfortunately, in that realm.
Yes.
Yeah.
But she did a great job doing that work.
And she said when she married her second
husband, so her husband died, and then
their best friends, the wife died, and
then they ended up getting together.
They had like eight children between them.
They ended up getting together, and
one night she, they were in the bedroom
and she looked up, and both of the
spouses who had passed on were watching.
And she said no.
And then no.
You just say, no, you have to go.
Now this is my sacred
space and they leave.
Rupert Isaacson: Right.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: But you
have to tell them sometimes.
She said.
So ever since then, I
have made it very clear.
No one in the bedroom,
no one in the bathroom.
Very clear.
Unless it's an emergency of some kind.
Yeah.
Then no, you know, wait.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: And also
many years later, I do, I do have
and I teach this to a lot of people.
I do have what I call gatekeepers, and I
was taught that by another mentor of mine.
And the gatekeepers
can come in many forms.
Mm-hmm.
But I ask my gatekeepers
to, they handle things.
If something needs to get in, in the
middle of the night, they can wake me up.
But it really, I mean, it
really has to be an emergency.
Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: And I've
had those, I mean, there, there
are people, there are souls.
There are spirits that need
support and so they will come in.
But anyway, so yes the
truth is they can see you.
And the truth is you do
need to set a boundary.
So it's,
Rupert Isaacson: well, you know, you know
what I feel I've always felt about that is
a why would I mind.
Because I imagine that anyone who's
within the fields of consciousness
is so beyond any sort of,
Denise Elizabeth Byron: they are so
Rupert Isaacson: judgment thing
that, I mean, any more than I would
be watching my horses or something.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah, exactly.
Rupert Isaacson: But the, but the, the
other thing is that I've always had
the absolute feeling that anyone who
is within the fields of consciousness,
who's aware of me in that way from
another, you know, other dimension,
perhaps they've died is beneficent.
They're, they're, they're not, they're
not here to do anything other than help.
And those sorts of adolescent
human judgments are not
relevant to that state of being.
So I am in no way worried, you know?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
I wouldn't worry.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
But it, it's just humorous, you know?
One has to, one
Denise Elizabeth Byron: has to,
it's so humorous because it's our
response like this, I'm like, Ugh,
Rupert Isaacson: ugh.
It's kind of
Denise Elizabeth Byron: not
Rupert Isaacson: really relevant.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Privacy
comes from being an oldest child too.
It's just like, privacy.
Please.
You know, it's that, you
know, I, I would, yeah.
So anyway.
It is, it's an amazing, I love
how you explain it too, and, and
your own experience, because the
other realms, they are profound.
And there, there, there are, there are
definitely energies that are not invited.
And I make that very clear.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: There are
beings that have passed over that I
may not want to have a connection with.
So I set up that boundary.
And, but most often it's
always comes down to it.
Everything kind of comes
down to the same message.
Everything comes down to one message.
And that is all there really is.
And I don't wanna sound like a
song, but that it's just love.
Everything is love.
Rupert Isaacson: Indeed.
You're preaching to converted, you know,
and, and I had my own death experience,
which I, we can talk about in a minute.
Mm-hmm.
So I'm 100% with you on that.
And I think there's a reason why
in every spiritual tradition in the
world, every single one, even if
they get certain things wrong, the
underlying message is always it's love.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: This, we know, you
know, this, we know to are, you know,
to the, to whatever is beyond ourselves.
We, we, we know it in our mitochondria.
We know it, we know it to be true.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yes.
Yes.
Rupert Isaacson: But okay, your
mom goes, decides she wants to
become an amateur astrologer.
But you, what you've been talking
about in our little digression
here has been more about being
psychic than being an astrologer.
And of course they're not
always the same thing, right?
Mm-hmm.
Not everyone who's
psychic is an astrologer.
Not everyone who's an astrologer psychic.
There can be, I, I guess a
logical crossover, but it's
by no means a a certainty.
Right.
So you are aware of your
grandmother and this lasts, you
know, into your young adulthood.
And I presume at a certain point
she's not the only one, but your
mum, you also mentioned siblings.
You said you're the oldest child.
Is this kind of way of looking at
the world and being in the world
also with your siblings, and is it
also with your mother and is it also
with your father, or are you feeling
No, I'm kind of a bit alone in this.
Denise Elizabeth Byron:
That's a good question also.
Um hmm.
I would say that I felt supported to
grow along my own path in that one way.
And so it wasn't that I was.
Not supported.
I just, I did feel alone though, and
my brother and sister I was much older,
so by the time I started to shut things
down, they were just beginning to grow
up and they were still quite young,
so they did not know that part of me
probably until later because, you know,
again, surviving in school was a primary,
you know, primary focus at the time.
And my brother and sister
are extraordinary humans.
And I've come to the, I, I have this
thought, I haven't actually shared
it with them so I can share it now
that we each have taken a branch of
something within the family line.
My sister is an extraordinary artist.
She is a gifted chocolatier.
She is a writer.
She is very, very creative.
And I feel like she took that,
she has that creative branch and
she's, she's really focused there.
And then my brother is a wonderful
professor of East Asian history.
And so he took the very intellectual
route and through his own neurodiversity.
Again, all of us have it in our family and
we all had to somehow find a way to get
through school and we all did pretty well.
He chose to go even further and
move into that intellectual realm.
So he's taking the intellectual branch
and they each have their own spirituality
for sure, but that's not their focus.
Mm-hmm.
And I ended up going into
education and teaching, but
the spiritual branch was mine.
I could feel it.
That's what I was being
called to all along.
So then I made that the focus and yeah,
I've just been, it's been interesting
to look back and see how each of,
we are all very, very different.
They love me.
They think I'm weird and they love me.
They are, they're wonderful
siblings in that respect.
So we all respect each other
and we are all very different.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
So, okay, now your mom gets
into amateur astrology.
It's the seventies.
All those Linda Goodman books
are coming out as we know.
Yes.
Go on.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Okay.
So I grow up in a household at
that point where my mother's doing
astrology the old fashioned way before
we had computers drawing everything
by hand and casting the charts.
And I am watching this kind of
living in this soup and she would.
I don't know if she was talking to
herself or she was talking to me, but
you know how when we're learning and
we're talking through something, so I'm
absorbing and I'm hearing and listening
I've eventually learned how to read.
I think I may be eight or nine.
And the minute the key unlocked
and I was able to understand how
letters and words worked, I could
read at a higher level than my age.
Mm-hmm.
So all of a sudden,
everything just unlocked.
So I started reading the astrology books.
I started reading all her past life books.
I started reading, you know, Edgar
Casey and all, all, all the, all the
ones from the seventies, obviously.
And that
Rupert Isaacson: just, just
give you a quick aside.
Yes.
Those who do not know who Edgar Casey
was he was known as the sleeping
Prophet and he lived in Virginia Beach
in the early part of the 20th century.
And he would go into a profound state
of trance sleep and come out with
stuff that was often very helpful.
Sometimes prophetic, often
turned out to be true.
And he is one of the, if you've ever
heard the term acas record this idea
that all sort of knowledge is stored
out in some other field that we can
tap into that really to a large degree
in the 20th century, starts with him.
Of course, it's not, he's not the only
bloke on the planet ever to come up to
this conclusion, but nonetheless, it's
So, Edgar Casey's very interesting.
If you want to know more the.
Tons of it on YouTube.
Okay.
Back to you.
Okay,
Denise Elizabeth Byron: great.
I love the history lessons.
They're so important because, you know,
you and I are not too far apart in age.
I'm a little bit older, but
we're not that far apart in age.
And so we have some scenario.
Rupert Isaacson: But you are 28.
Yeah.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
And you're I think, what, 27?
Rupert Isaacson: I'm, I'm,
I'm, well, I never made it
mentally much past three, so.
Yeah,
Denise Elizabeth Byron: exactly.
I have, I, I'm not, I don't, I have a
thought, but I'm not gonna go there yet.
So anyway.
I have a thought.
I have a thought.
So anyway, so yeah.
So I lived in this soup.
I started reading.
Okay.
Like I said, I started to shut
things down a little bit, got to
college, shut it down even more.
And then in my twenties, I, I
couldn't shut it down anymore.
And I think a lot of it was just they,
it, it, the, and maybe this, maybe
other people could relate to this, but
I could feel the energies around me.
I just didn't really know
what to do with them.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: And, and it
was like, it was getting crowded.
It was getting crowded, and it
was as if I needed to open a door.
Mm-hmm.
Again, and so that's when I started
working with that first teacher
and mentor and the psychic who was
working with police departments.
And during that training, I realized
that was not the work I was meant to do.
I was not going to be working
with police departments, but I
did wanna keep that door open.
Rupert Isaacson: And how did you
find that mentor, and why did
that mentor decide to take you on?
Was, was he or she running the school
for police psychics with a small ad
that you could answer in the LA Times?
Or did you meet by word of
mouth, or, there must have been
a, an interesting story there.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
You know, it's a, it's a, that's
a very good question as well.
I believe that.
Somebody said, you
should go see this woman.
I, I think that's how
it, it started like that.
So I went to see her.
We had this conversation.
She said, oh, by the
way, I am having a class.
Do you wanna come?
And so my best friend and I at the
time, we decided to go to the class and
I don't know what possessed me, but I
dragged my younger sister, bless her, I
dragged her to the class and we, and the
whole, after the first night, we sat in
my bedroom and at the house where I was
living, and we just stared each other.
And she's like, I'm
never gonna sleep again.
So anyway, but anyhow, so, and then this
beautiful mentor, I just kept taking
class after class after class and just
learning as much as I could because that's
who I had on the journey at the time.
And by then, I'm in my twenties, I'm 21.
I'm moving on in my life and.
Astrology was always there.
Numerology was a favorite from the time I
was probably 15, I was doing numerology.
I loved numbers and how they
could share again, their symbols.
And there was this beautiful language
that somebody had decoded numerology.
You probably know this better than
I do, but I believe, you know, we,
we can go back to the Greeks, we
can go back to the Islamic Empire.
Numerology has been
around a very, very long
Rupert Isaacson: time.
Oh, it's, it's it's way older.
All of these things that as far as we
can trace them, go back to Sumaria.
Denise Elizabeth Byron:
Yes, yes, of course.
Who
Rupert Isaacson: are, which is also
where most of our mathematics comes from.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yes.
Rupert Isaacson: And that's
6,000 years ago and when,
you know, I was at university
studying history and archeology.
The accepted wisdom was that
that was the first civilization.
And I remember thinking along with a
lot of other people, that seems awfully
recent, you know, given that, you
know, and then there were all these
unanswered questions like, oh yeah.
And we just like suddenly
invented agriculture.
Like, Hmm.
You know, there, there seems
to be some missing links here.
And now of course they're finding
like go Gobekli Tepi in Southeast
Turkey, which is about 6,000 years.
Earlier than Sumaria.
And now they found another place
in Indonesia whose name is so
complex, I can never remember it,
which seems to be older than that.
And therefore what's going on, because
you've got ice ages in between.
And then of course you get into
all kinds of theories and then
the academics get very upset.
But the fact is that now with ground
penetrating radar and all sorts of other
ways of doing archeology that are also
not necessarily being seen through the
institutional eyes of Juda Christianism
or the British Empire or whatever
other thing we're trying to prove.
We seem to perhaps not have been the
first such civilization here possibly.
And there seem to be pauses and breaks and
a slightly more complex story, which is
more in line with how nature really goes.
And does that mean that there's extra
terrestrial stuff and all that stuff?
We don't know.
We don't know, but it's as likely as not.
And so therefore, where
does this all start?
Probably earlier than Sumaria, but
in terms of can we trace it back?
That's about as far as we can actually get
like something on a clay tablet, you know?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yes.
That says, and
Rupert Isaacson: if you
do this, it will do that.
Yeah.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: It's amazing.
So archeology was my first love,
and I actually thought I was
gonna study archeology in college.
Mm.
But then I went a different
direction as life does
Rupert Isaacson: ass job.
You didn't because they're, they're a
bit of a bunch of wankers, honestly.
I was almost kicked out of
university for, do you know
why they wanted to kick me out?
Denise Elizabeth Byron:
Yeah, I'd love to know.
Rupert Isaacson: Well, one of the
reasons there, there were a few reasons,
but one of the reasons was I wrote an
essay about a, an indus a a sort of
early Iron age, no, mid late Iron Age
culture that was in an area of Eastern
Britain that was heavy iron making.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Mm-hmm.
Rupert Isaacson: Along the riverine.
And that this became something
that the Romans, when they invaded,
targeted because it was an iron.
And so it was sort of an
early industrial thing.
And so I drew a comparison
between that and sort of a Iron
Age black country, black country
being like the early industrial
revolution in 19th century England.
And my professors just lost it,
haul me into their office and
kind of tore me a new asshole
threatened me with kicking out.
And I'm like, but lads, you're
talking about metal work, slag
heaps, pollution in the rivers, smog,
potentially people dying of, you know,
lung problems because of the smoke,
because that, this seems to show up.
Mm-hmm.
The, the, the, the, you know, the
skeletons and stuff that you did, the
hair and whatever that you're digging up.
And so how is it not
actually a bit like that?
And they just said, if you
wanna stay, you better shut up.
So I realized very, very early
that weirdly archeology has had
an orthodoxy and a, a liturgy
that's not far from the religious.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yes.
Rupert Isaacson: And that comes
for all sorts of philosophical
reasons, but it means that it
needs to be revised every 20 years.
Yeah, yeah.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Well,
and you bring up an interesting
point too, because I will say from
various points of view, ha, have
you read the Chalice and the Blade?
Rupert Isaacson: No.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Have you
read The Great Cosmic Mother?
Rupert Isaacson: No.
Sorry.
Why's the exam tomorrow?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Put
that on your reading, Les.
Okay.
These are, tell me about it.
Anthropological texts.
These are women based text and we're,
and really looking at how the patriarchy
really radically shifted the narrative.
As far back as Sumeria.
Oh yeah, for sure.
You know, for, you gotta keep going
back and back and back in time.
Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: You know, one
of the members of our horse community
Sarah Barnes wrote a great book.
She Who Rides Horses.
I don't know if you've read that one.
I
Rupert Isaacson: do know it.
And I've actually got it in my bedroom.
She sent it to me.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yes.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Another
great look back at history.
Rupert Isaacson: Exactly.
Well, I've got something to say
about that, but before I do for you
listeners, remember we did say she's
sort of the horse person's astrologer.
We will get to the horses, don't worry.
Yeah.
One of the fun things about having,
you know, I studied ancient history as
well and I love the fact that when the
Athenians got their empire going up
through the Eastern Mediterranean above
Turkey, they enter the Black Sea, they
keep going and they end up in the Crimea.
Right.
That's on the top.
And the steps of Ukraine and
who's living there, of course.
But horse people and what they would
call Ians at that point, mounted
arches, fierce warriors, also traders,
and they start trading with these
people for whatever they've got.
Pelt, horses, amber, et cetera,
furs, Fs, and what pops up in the
mythology of Athens, the Amazons, and
that there are these women up there.
Who are fierce and ride horses.
So what do they do?
They say, oh, well our heroes, Herrick,
Clea and thesis, what do they go up there?
And they tame these horsewomen
and they marry the queen and they,
Denise Elizabeth Byron: right.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
They, they get them under the thumb.
They never fucking got
them under the thumb.
They were terrified of them.
And in fact when the archeology was being
done in those areas digging up the grave
mounds of these horse cultures, they
were often finding these high status
warriors covered in tattoos, buried with
their horses, buried with their weapons.
And because it's a slightly dry climate
there, the, the skin often mummies and
even though, you know, it's from the
Bronze Age and more recent, DNA has shown
that at least 50% of these high status
tattooed warriors buried with there Yeah.
Horses.
And were guess what?
Women?
Yes.
And they, they were high
status military leaders.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Mm-hmm.
And,
Rupert Isaacson: So you can imagine
the Greeks going up there and going,
whoa, listen lads, we can't let
the ladies back in Athens see this.
You know, they'll,
they'll go fucking nuts.
And they go wild.
We, we had to come up with
a couple of myths about, but
no, they never tamed them.
And it's very interesting that the horse
cultures have always been to a large
degree egalitarian, because once you
are on a horse, it's got nothing to do
with your physical size or strength.
It's to do with your
skills with the horse.
And then your skills with
the weapon on the horse.
You could be five foot two,
you could be six foot two.
It wouldn't really make
much difference, honestly.
We know this, so, the horse is much
stronger than either of the two monkeys.
Big monkey, small monkey.
Yeah.
So, yeah, no absolutely
with you and, and yes.
Patriarchy couldn't handle it.
So that,
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Nope.
Well, and I noticed you had a YouTube
recently about one of the horse goddesses.
Yeah.
And yes, and when we think about, and you
know, coming from a more Celtic origin
from my ancestors and Viking origin,
the women, the, the female goddesses,
they were not to be trifled with.
These were powerful,
Rupert Isaacson: to be fair.
Not normally the Greek ones as well.
I mean, you know.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah,
Rupert Isaacson: exactly.
The goddesses are always trouble.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yes, we are.
Doesn't
Rupert Isaacson: matter which pan,
Denise Elizabeth Byron:
let's just keep that in mind.
It's
Rupert Isaacson: true.
You better keep your head down.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Well, and,
and we should talk about horses.
I know we will.
Yes.
I promise.
We'll get to the rest of the story, but
Rupert Isaacson: yeah.
How do you become, how
is it that you are now?
'cause that's sort of how I got
to know you through Warwick.
You are the sort of horseman psychic
and the horseman's astrologer.
Why, like, what's the evolution there?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Well, that is an
interesting, also an interesting story.
I feel comfortable because
people have shared this.
Normally I would not speak about my
clients, but I, I feel very comfortable
because Warwick has already shared this.
Robin's already shared this, and Tyler's
already shared this the Schiller family.
But when I was living in Santa Cruz, I had
a business where by the time, you know,
we fast forwarded now many, many years.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: I had, I was doing
astrology, numerology pretty regularly.
That was the basis of my livelihood.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: And so, a
client brought Robin, they, we had
a session for a particular reason
for that, and then Robin came by
herself, and then Robin brought,
brought work, and Robin brought Tyler.
Right.
And so we had a little
family going on there.
And in the course of those sessions,
I was able to share what I can see.
And so the chart itself,
astrology is very technical.
I am not a technical astrologer.
I can do technical astrology, but
where my gift lies is being able to
utilize it as a symbology that opens
the portals to information and energy.
So yes, I'm interpreting astrology
that has a traditional meaning.
But not unlike tarot cards for instance.
You know, there's a traditional meaning
for a tarot card, but really what
the card is doing is it's asking you
to connect with your own intuition.
It's asking you to connect with
your psyche, your higher self, your
ancestors, depending on where you
come from in the world, and let
that information flow through you.
So astrology charts allow me the
opportunity to hear and see and feel.
So with the Schillers
particularly Warwick, I was
able to share what I could see.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: And from that
moment, and I can't speak for him
per se, but I know from what he has
shared that he was able to craft what
became the journey on podcast and
then the journey on summits and then
their new nonprofit foundation work.
So that's how I came to be connected
to the Schillers and the podcast.
And, and this is very kind in the
very first, very first podcast.
He shares that, that's the origin
story for where the podcast is.
Okay.
Rupert Isaacson: That's so interesting.
I didn't know that.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
Okay.
And so then later I was.
What was I podcast number 99, agent 99.
I was interviewed and we had a really
great conversation and from that
interview, my whole world got to be
this fabulous, fabulous people who are
not unlike me, like for the first time.
'cause you asked about feeling alone.
It's never really bothered me that there
weren't a lot of people around that were
seeing, feeling, sensing, doing astrology.
I just would do it.
It's just what I did.
But living in Santa Cruz, you would think
Santa Cruz, California, for those of you
don't know, it's like the surfing capital.
A pretty easygoing place.
You would think I would
find more people like me.
I did, but it still wasn't a lot.
And it's fascinating to me the minute
I stepped into this horse world, and
I, I can't say enough about this, the
sensitivity of the people who I might
even cry because this is so profound.
The sensitivity of the people who listen
to their animals, to their horses,
their dogs, their cats, their chickens,
their ducks is, is the sensitivity
that I've carried my whole life.
And we're the same.
The difference is I've been
able to strengthen a muscle over
the course of my life that for
some feels like a newer muscle.
But he's been there the whole time.
Anyone who is in your community, anyone
who's in your community, anyone who's a,
a horse person in the way that you are and
the way that your people are understands
how important it is to listen first.
And that's the thing.
Like Robin Warwick, Tyler, you
know, we were, I started to
realize these people are listening.
They're not telling, they're
listening and they're connecting and
they're having conversation with.
So that one podcast opened a door and
I was very, very, very happy and feel
very blessed to walk through that door.
So that's how that happened.
Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
So we're going to take that conversation
in a moment into the equine realm because
everyone I know is interested in this.
However I want to still just go a
little bit more with your chronology.
So you are working with this, mentor who's
doing forensic psychic work effectively.
Yes.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
And we know that this is a thing mm-hmm.
And it's, it's interesting.
Anyone who's rolling their
eyes don't, it doesn't matter
what country you're living in.
Your big police departments all have a
psychic forensic thing, and they all,
they, they leave no stone unturned.
And it's really interesting that, you
know, people that you consider to be
the most practical or the practical cops
Denise Elizabeth Byron: mm-hmm.
Rupert Isaacson: Will actually, because
they are so professional, not neglect any
angle that's possible to try to and sadly,
of course, criminals do the same thing.
They, they can use darker
spiritual stuff as well.
Mm-hmm.
But don't for a moment think that
that is not part of your local police
department or, or at least your,
it, it, it, we, we know that it is.
So at what point do you say, okay, let's
not what I want to do, and then you say,
but there is something I want to do.
What is that thing?
Or do you actually try your hand in
the mainstream for a bit and resist it?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Oh, I was
definitely, you know, I was needing
to get a job, so I worked in.
I had many jobs, you know?
Mm-hmm.
I did my, I did my part, and I
finally landed on teaching, partly
because remember when I was saying
that when I couldn't read and then
the key unlocked and I was able to
read I knew at some point I always
loved teaching swimming lessons.
That was my favorite job ever in
college, was teaching kids how to swim.
I mean, I feel like
that's what I'm doing now.
It's just a different, it's
just a different set of tools.
Yeah.
I, I can do that, but it's the same thing.
So in my twenties, I was introduced
to another psychic, and she was doing
more past life regression readings,
talking to people on the other
side, which the other one did too.
But this was, she was more
she was doing it differently.
She wasn't working for police
departments, let's just say that.
So it had a different feel to it.
It wasn't, it wasn't as I mean,
it was serious, but it, it just
didn't have the same flavor.
So I started working with her and learned
so much that I was practicing in all
my twenties I was doing, I, I mean,
at that point, people were coming in,
in the middle of the night waking me
up and saying things like, please pray
for me and contact my mother-in-law.
Okay.
Okay.
So I had all kinds of
experiences in my twenties.
I needed to understand what was
happening, so I found teachers to
help me understand what was happening.
The astrology was not a thing.
It wasn't until my thirties that
astrology, I just, you know, again,
computers made it a lot easier.
Mm-hmm.
I'll be honest, I didn't really wanna do
the charts the way my mother did them.
Mm-hmm.
It takes a lot of time and effort.
But anyways I can remember when
Astro dest showed up on the internet.
Well, the internet showed up, right?
Mm-hmm.
And then we had all of this new
stuff that we could learn, and
so I just started learning even
more astrology at that point.
So I'm in my thirties at that
point and practicing on anyone
who would let me practice.
And I had left teaching, I was coaching
doing life coaching, and I found that
my clientele seemed to all be artists.
And I also started casting their charts
with their permission and realized
that we could go a lot further, a lot
faster if we started with the chart.
And so that's how that became a thing.
And so that was 30 years ago and
have just built on that since.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
And then why would, I've got three
or four questions I've written down
here, which we get need to get to.
But another question
has come a digression.
So why would the Schillers,
as dedicated horse people.
Okay.
You're all living in
that part of California.
I get it.
And sometimes people want to go
and see a psychic or an astrologer.
I get it.
But I presume that there were other witchy
people in the horse community there.
In fact, I know that rock.
'cause I've got friends who are and we
probably have a mutual friend there.
Do you know Jill Cohen?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: I
don't know personally, but yes.
Yes.
Rupert Isaacson: Wonderful body.
Wonderful human.
You know, Warwick certainly knows
Aaron, you know, but we, let's just
say there's a very conscious community
there, which also includes horse people.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yes.
Rupert Isaacson: So why do you think
that they knocked on your door?
What, what do you think was the why you?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Well, we, we
have to say it's Robin, you know, Robin
came with a, a friend for, and so then
I guess it just, you know, I think
Rupert Isaacson: is it pure coincidence
or is it some other connection?
Denise Elizabeth Byron:
That's a great question.
It's, nothing's ever pure coincidence.
We, we
Rupert Isaacson: understand this, right?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
We just have to say, I think that
what, what has happened, probably,
I like to make things practical.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: And I
think that practicality is an
important piece of especially if
you're talking about business.
If you're talking about your
livelihood or you're talking about
your purpose, how can it be practical?
That's my whole goal, is to bring
the practical into the spiritual.
Or bring the, yeah, bring the
practical into the spiritual.
I, I count my lucky
stars, no pun intended.
But I do think that I'll, I'll be honest,
this, this is me if Tyler listens to
this, Tyler, this is me responding
to you at the San Antonio Summit.
That's all I'm gonna say.
I think the past life
connection goes to Tyler.
I think I somehow am connected to
him, and then he just happened to
be the, the, the child of these two.
Rupert Isaacson: Got it.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Wonderful.
Rupert Isaacson: That'll do.
That's a good answer.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: And that actually
leads me to my other question.
Mm-hmm.
So, past lives, it's interesting for
me because I obviously have spent a
lot of time with healers and shamans
Denise Elizabeth Byron: mm-hmm.
Rupert Isaacson: In indigenous areas, and
not just as an observer, but as you know,
it's been my life and my son and my, the
healings of my family and all of this.
And the Bushman, for example, who I
spent most spent most of my time with.
So they don't talk about past lives, they
talk about ancestors, and it seems to
past life things seems to be something
which people talk about largely in
Western, sometimes in Eastern, but by
no means in all eastern traditions.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Mm-hmm.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
As you know, if you followed any of
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And it's been working so
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We really want to know.
We really want to help people like
me, people like you, out there
live their best life, to live
free, ride free, see what happens.
So why do some people talk
about past lives and others not?
And does every human have
past lives or only some.
And why do some cultures not seem
to th have it in their experience?
And others seem to have it
very much in their experience.
Denise Elizabeth Byron:
Such a great question.
Again, I love these questions.
This is fun.
I can't, I cannot claim to be an
expert on past lives, but I can
put you in touch with one later.
I'll give you her name.
Mm, she's awesome.
I think you would enjoy talking with her.
But what I will say from my own experience
and from my own learning, I think,
and this is, this is not shared by a
lot of people who do psychic reading.
So what I'm about to say is my
own, this is my own experience.
I believe that a lot of times we
reincarnate past lives within our
ancestry and it's not always true.
And for sure it's not always true.
But I think that sometimes we do.
So your question about why do some
cultures look at past lives and
some don't, I wonder if the ones
that are tr, and this again, it's a
question, I wonder if the ones that
are truly connected to the ancestral
realm that it's all built in there.
We become, we are our ancestors.
You know, is this, is that thought?
I know that in there's a
Hawaiian spiritual tradition that
I've studied for a long time.
The Akua, that word means.
Ancestors.
It also means our higher
self and it's our wisdom.
And in that spiritual
tradition, they don't talk
about past lives so much either.
That's not a thing.
So it makes me just, I'm having
this conversation with you in real
time and just really going into the
curiosity myself of why this is, and
again, you could talk to a past life
expert and maybe there's a different
understanding, but my understanding is
for myself that if I go back and look
at the lifetimes that I sense or feel
that have moved through in some form,
they're there to teach me something.
And again, what is the practical purpose
for getting in touch with a past life?
A lot of it is healing.
And if that healing can be sent
to my ancestral line, if it can be
moved through, I You've heard of
family constellation work, right?
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
So if you can move the, the healing
through the line, then it doesn't really
matter if it's a past life or not,
but it's something that is allowing
me to have healing, and it allows me
to understand something else about my
soul's development, which then takes
us into the question about what is
a soul and what does it really mean?
To be this soul that keeps coming back.
And are there souls that have
never been here on earth before?
Probably, I would imagine, you know,
we, we always have a good laugh because
we, we think about, I have this story, I
have to tell you, we have these thoughts.
Like, okay, so who were
you in a past life?
And everybody wants to be somebody
really important in a past life,
Rupert Isaacson: you know?
Well, that's, that's the
thing that always Yeah.
Makes one raise an eyebrow.
People seldom say, well, I used to clean
the toilets in McDonald's in like 1964.
Right.
You know, they, they don't say that.
Well, I
Denise Elizabeth Byron:
know, and that's the thing.
So when I've done my past life
work in the form that I've done it
always a camel boy, never a pharaoh.
Can I just say that?
Yeah.
Always a camel boy, never a pharaoh.
So that having an understanding of what
is the purpose of looking at our past
lives, a lot of it is to heal something
systemic that may have followed us.
Again, you have to really be okay with
reincarnation, which then takes us
back to, again, as you said, obviously
there's clearly many, many, many,
many, many people throughout history
who have talked about reincarnation.
But you have my first you know, my first
introduction is through Edgar Casey.
So obviously that idea of the soul,
the, the many, the many lives.
And then remember, Dr.
Brian Weiss, who did the
mini lives mini masters.
Did you ever read that book?
Rupert Isaacson: No, but I've heard of it.
Yeah.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
So that was another thing that
came along during the times
when I'm learning all of this.
And I recently had a past life regression
just very recently in the last month.
And I was really hoping, I was like,
oh, I wanna go get in touch with one
of my Celtic lifetimes, 'cause I know
I must have lived and blah, blah, blah.
You know?
So, no, no, that wasn't it.
The lifetime that came through
was vastly different than
anything I would've expected.
And the question was why,
you know, why this lifetime,
why was this coming through?
And really, I realized even while I'm
going through the regression, that the
truth of it was I needed to see a simple
lifetime connected to the earth, to the
stars, and I needed to see and feel death.
Here we come back around to that, 'cause
we're gonna talk about your near death
thing that you've mentioned earlier.
I've got it on my notes, so
Rupert Isaacson: sure.
I can talk about it.
But go on.
Yeah.
Okay.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
So anyway, so again, what is the
practical, I, you know, a lot of
people in my life have passed.
A lot of really close
people have passed recently.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: And so.
I needed to have a, I needed
to have that regression to
show me something about death.
Mm-hmm.
From my perspective.
And it was great.
And I mean, for me, whether
the story, the story is true or
not, it doesn't really matter.
It was beautiful and it was healing,
and I don't need to prove it.
And I think that's something I wanna
speak to actually, if that's all right.
I just, I hear so many people
in, in the community say, I
need to prove my intuition.
And you know what?
No, you don't.
That kind of takes the wrong path.
You, you're not here to
prove your intuition.
You're here to deepen into it.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: That
is, and you know this, I'm not,
Rupert Isaacson: well, I
mean, that's interesting.
That's, there's the horse connection
right there, because what do horses
do, but facilitate that for people,
Denise Elizabeth Byron: right.
Rupert Isaacson: More so than
just about any other animal.
Because why
Denise Elizabeth Byron:
you say more about that?
Say more about that.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
Well, horses do a number of things
for us that other animals don't.
Every animal has its special thing.
And a lot of their special things are
completely, of course, independent of us.
We just see it through
our own monkey lens.
But when we are looking at the
monkey, through the monkey lens
towards horses what do horses do?
They carry us.
Okay.
Now, they're not the only
animal that carries us.
You can ride camel's,
elephants, donkeys, reindeer.
But.
My sis, my sister, my daughter
recently wrote a sheet.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Who might've
been your sister in the past?
Rupert Isaacson: It might've
been my sister, actually.
I slightly suspect she was.
And
Denise Elizabeth Byron: yeah,
Rupert Isaacson: I slightly suspect
she's actually my older sister.
Yeah.
But she's too, too wise.
Too clever.
But horses what they can do,
when you ride the other animals,
you ride in two dimensions.
You ride f forwards or in a
curve, maybe you could back up.
With horses you can ride
in three dimensions.
So that's why they became the livestock
and battle and dance and sport and
hunting transporter of humans of choice.
But because they can move in
three dimensions, they're much
more complex and dangerous.
Once you add that other dimension of
movement, it becomes more dangerous.
Horses are dangerous, but they're gentle.
And so very, very rarely
do they want to hurt us.
But danger's always present
when you're with a horse.
So, but they will take you into another
dimension and they will do it selflessly.
And they will do it against
their own intuitions.
Like that cavalry charge,
the horse might blow.
I think I'm probably gonna die, you know?
But they'll do it.
So there is a kind of,
they represent to us.
A higher self for selflessness.
They carry us.
They also represent strength,
freedom, beauty, speed.
We are bigger, stronger, more powerful,
more beautiful when we're on a horse.
We just go back to being a monkey
again when we get off the horse.
So sometimes we can sadly come to the
conclusion that the beauty and power
that the horse lends us is our own and
not something that is lent and that
can turn us into utter ars assholes.
And a lot of horse people, myself
included, have gone through a time
in their life of arrogance and
then you've had to lose it at some
point if you want to get to the
next stage of horsemanship, right?
And it's almost like a necessary thing.
And actually, to be honest, horses kind
of can show that up with that sort of ego
as well, a little bit amongst each other.
That's not a million miles
away in some of the dynamics.
So there's these kinship similarities
and, but at the same time, we
are there, but predator and have
been for an awful long time.
If you look at the you know, cave
paintings in LaSow or Chave or
any of the, the really old ones
from second Ice age back or so.
Horses, horses, horses, horses, horses.
We're not riding them,
we we're hunting them.
But we, we have a real
fascination with them.
And then when we do start riding them,
of course they transport us massively.
But unfortunately we can commit
acts of great criminal psych,
psychotic, horrible genocides on
them, or we can use them to heal.
The choice is up to us.
The horse will lend us
his power either way.
So horses really do have this occult.
They now so does a wolf, so does a dog.
So does a cat, so does a, you
know, there's no being on the
planet that does not have its,
you know, occult other world.
That is true, but it's
specifically with horses.
I think it's, it seems to me to be this.
And you trust your life
then to the animal.
Mm-hmm.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yes,
Rupert Isaacson: you are.
He will carry you on his back
with this ever present danger.
And then you have to open yourself.
When you, when you sit on a horse,
you, as you know, the human body
when it feels danger, wants to curl
in, grab the branch and hold onto
the branch, protect the organs.
You cannot do that on a horse in movement.
You will fall off.
So you have to learn to go against
your instinct and open and balance.
So it teaches us this.
And of course all of the old
masters who wrote books about
three dimensional horsemanship,
which you could call dressage.
For example, XON, the Greek.
It seems that maybe Kali in Babylon.
About a thousand years before
him was talking about this.
And certainly later, people like Elle
and, and others, what they all say is,
if you're going to ride this animal
and train this type of animal who is
so sensitive and so dangerous and so
vulnerable to that level, you have
to learn to master your emotions.
So it's a very, very good exercise.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Mm-hmm.
Rupert Isaacson: Particularly for
hotheaded young people mm-hmm.
To do this because it can turn
them into courtiers ambassadors,
good rulers, good administrators,
people that can be quite wise.
So I think for all of these reasons,
you know, horses and, and this is just,
you know, peeling back one layer really.
That's my long-winded answer, sorry.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: No, I love it.
And I don't have your experiences
at all and limited experiences with
horses in general, but one thing
that has always struck me, I was just
Rupert Isaacson: and your point, by
the way, about the deep listening.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yes.
You
Rupert Isaacson: said interrupting her
and not listening is absolutely true.
That because if you don't, you can die.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Well, yes.
Okay.
Rupert Isaacson: So that kind of
really, you have to listen deeply.
Yes.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: This is good.
I actually was actually
where I was headed in a way.
I was with a horse recently, and
every time I'm with a horse, here's
what I notice as someone who's on
the ground, who's not on a horse, my
heart and their heart are lined up.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: We're right here.
Rupert Isaacson: That's true.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: And
there is no other animal that
I have been in contact with.
Rupert Isaacson: Well, I suppose a lot.
Cows, elephants.
Yeah.
Well,
Denise Elizabeth Byron: I, as I say,
Rupert Isaacson: stand
on the ground with them.
You are, you are, you
are within a heart field.
Yes.
Yes.
But that doesn't take away from
what you are talking about.
No,
Denise Elizabeth Byron: no.
But I think for me, because again,
cows, I like cows too, actually.
Mm.
I haven't been around a lot of cows, but
I just find them fascinating to talk to.
But this, this heart energy,
that's what I noticed is that
I could feel within myself.
Their hearts are, yes.
I don't an anatomically, I
don't know if they're big.
I don't know how big they are, but
Rupert Isaacson: they're,
they're much bigger than ours.
They have,
Denise Elizabeth Byron: have to be
Rupert Isaacson: because
they're running machines.
Makes sense.
So their hearts, hearts and
their lungs makes Right.
Are huge.
Yeah.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
So I'm sitting receiving
this energy at a heart level.
There's not much I can do
except let go of any fear.
But be wise, like you said, you have to be
smart and conscious and staying present.
But to open up.
Yeah.
And allow that.
Ugh, it's just profound.
Yeah.
So that's my experience is this
Rupert Isaacson: one.
Absolutely.
No, absolutely.
And you know, the people at the
HeartMath Institute in Northern
California would corroborate
and put science to what you say.
And interestingly, even as far back as
the early nineties, there was this really
interesting study done at the University
of Castle in Germany of all places.
Mm-hmm.
You can imagine the Germans
view, well, you know, measure the
Denise Elizabeth Byron: yes.
Rupert Isaacson: The measuring you
think of heart, that's not a very
particularly German thing to do.
And I've lived in Germany and I've
actually lived in Hessan where Castle
is, so I was quite surprised that
Denise Elizabeth Byron: yes,
Rupert Isaacson: that was what they
came up with, but good on them.
And they found that hearts throw out
all hearts throw out photons light
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yes.
Rupert Isaacson: To quite a large radius.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Mm-hmm.
Rupert Isaacson: And of course, when
we're in fear that radius gets much less.
But when we are in a state of love and
they measured this by make, putting
people in situations where they felt
nice and were feeling loving towards
someone imagined or somebody in the
room or whatever, and they, they
could measure the length that the
photons went and they went really far.
I can't off the top of my head
say what, you know, where they
stop being able to measure them.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
There's a field
Rupert Isaacson: they stop.
Being able to measure them
at that point doesn't mean
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Right.
Rupert Isaacson: That they, so, and then.
Interdimensionally, presumably.
And of course, what, what is light, but
love because what is anything but love?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Right,
Rupert Isaacson: right.
And what is the heart anyway?
Well, we know.
So yes, I, I absolutely agree with you.
If you're standing next to a
horse and you focus on love,
things are gonna go well.
And of course you could
say, well, that's anything.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yes.
Is it?
But it, but it's real.
This is a real thing.
It's measurable.
And I have had the profound
good fortune to work with
Kansas Carradine, who combines
Rupert Isaacson: excellent human.
Yeah.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yes.
And, and just witnessing her, and
she's done some work with me online
that we've done with HeartMath.
But I know her combination
of HeartMath and working with
horses is really profound.
Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.
And everybody's listening.
Go check out Kansas, Karen.
I did a conversation with her.
Warwick did a conversation with
her, but go to circus cowgirl.com.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Mm-hmm.
Rupert Isaacson: Check her
out and consult with her.
She's,
Denise Elizabeth Byron: yeah.
It's, and again, that, that
real field of energy, it is
measurable, just as you were saying.
It's profound.
But I guess from my experience, just
feeling it, oh, it's just amazing.
Rupert Isaacson: So I'm
wonder back to charts.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Charts.
Okay.
Symbol,
Rupert Isaacson: symbol charts
Denise Elizabeth Byron: and horses.
Do we want,
Rupert Isaacson: well what,
what is a chart but a measure?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Mm-hmm.
Rupert Isaacson: What is a tarot
card, but a symbol, a set of symbols
that helps to measure or interpret
what are meters and like photon,
photo, voltaic measure, you know?
Yeah.
They're all attempts to measure.
And you could say, well, the ones
that are not empirical can't be real.
But if that's true, then there
would be no irrational side to life.
And we know that there is, we
know that 50% of life is rational,
50% of life is irrational.
That is just how it is.
Doctors with bad bedside manners
kill their patients and doctors
with great bedside manners who
didn't do so well at medical school,
their patients tend to get better.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: That's great.
Rupert Isaacson: We can't
measure this, but Yeah.
But maybe we can, we can someday.
Interestingly actually, my, my own
uncle who was an eminent pathologist at
London University and a man who would
not be at all afraid to mock you at
the dinner table if you thought that
when we made the Horse boy movie and we
had a little private showing of it to
family, and he came and I thought, oh,
he's gonna take a big shit all over me.
So I went up to him at the end.
And I opened an imaginary umbrella.
Oh.
And I got under it, and I said,
now's your time, uncle Peter.
Take a shit.
Go on, surfs up.
Give it, give it both barrels, you
know, let, let's, let's have it.
Yeah.
And he said, actually, ruper, this
time I'm not gonna take a shit.
And I said, that's unlike you.
Why would you not?
And he said, well, two things.
One is, remember, this
is 20 years ago almost.
You, you are saying that autism can
actually be kind of a good thing.
Well, that's kind of interesting actually.
You know, haven't seen,
looked at it that way before.
That has, you know, that
bears investigation.
And he said, but the second thing
is you've drawn attention to
the irrational side of medicine.
And I said, what?
What do you mean?
He said, well, I'm a pathologist.
And so what you're looking at
is probably the placebo effect.
And I said, oh, he said,
don't get me wrong.
That's no disrespect.
He said, Rupert, most people
misunderstand the placebo effect.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Mm-hmm.
Rupert Isaacson: Right?
They'll dismiss something, say,
oh, that's just the placebo effect.
Meaning they fundamentally don't
understand what the placebo effect is.
He said, all of modern medicine, all
of allopathic drug based medicine
relies upon this irrational thing.
Because you have a drug trial,
you have control groups.
One of the control groups
does not get the drug.
It gets a placebo.
And it's not until in multiple trials.
The drug makes more people better than
the placebo, that it can go on the market.
And these people that get
the placebo don't just like
think they get better and die.
Two weeks later they get better and they
usually get better, more than the drug.
And then they have to keep bringing
the drug back to the drawing board
until it, and he said, nobody
can explain why this is Rupert.
And so is it, is it possible that why
what you are, you know, experiencing
with these shamans is a technology of
harnessing that which is, goes back to
the roots of what it means to be a human.
And that perhaps one day science
will catch up with it and just gonna,
I'm, I'm astonished Uncle Peter.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: I bet you were.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's amazing.
You know, and I think any really
good scientist is mystical.
Rupert Isaacson: Yes.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: And when you
really talk to scientists and they have
to stay curious, science isn't just about
the facts that already are in existence.
Science are, is about
what else can we learn?
Rupert Isaacson: Exactly.
If you're a good scientist.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: If
you're a good scientist,
Rupert Isaacson: right?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
So I have a question
for you back to horses.
So now that through Warwick and
so on, so many of the people that
come to see you are horse people.
I presume they're often coming with
questions about their horses and
questions about their relationships
with their horses and so on.
No.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Sometimes.
Not all the time.
Sometimes it's about them and how they
can actually be with their horses better.
How they can,
Rupert Isaacson: okay, well that,
that's sort of what I mean, really.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Can you give me, there must
be patterns that emerge.
What are the sort of patterns of
the questions that tend to be asked
to you, and what are some of the
insights that come through you?
Because one things that's cool
about you is you, because you're
not horsey, you're not coming with
a pre, you know, horse people.
We, we are all so opinionated and we
all think we're right and you know this.
And so it's very hard for us
to look through a neutral lens.
But you can, 'cause you're not horsey.
So what are the main questions
that people come with and Yeah.
And, and what comes through for you?
That's
Denise Elizabeth Byron: a
great, that's a great question.
Also, I think a lot of times people
really want to deep, so there's,
there's a couple of categories.
There's those that come because they want
to deepen their own intuitive ability so
they can listen to their horses better.
So we call that animal communication.
That's a general term used.
My job as an astrologer is looking at
a chart and saying, well, from this
na perspective of where your planet's.
Started off with when you were born,
here are the gifts that you are
carrying and you can develop, and if
that is something you want to do more
of, here's how you can get there.
Here's your trajectory of deepening.
In most of the time, I just have
to say this, most of the time
people are already doing it.
They just maybe just need somebody
else to say, yes, you, this is real.
You're not making this up.
And I can look at a chart and say
like, we're the same age group,
so, our Neptune is in Scorpio.
I can look at a Neptune in Scorpio
and say, generally, generally
speaking, Neptune and Scorpio
people have access to a tremendous
amount of that other realm type of.
Intuition or connection to your interest
and, and willingness to dive into what
we're diving into today and what you've
been diving into your whole life.
It isn't just from the Neptune
and Scorpio, that's just one
particular way I can look for it.
I can look at where Pluto is in a chart.
So I'm helping people understand
themselves and understand their evolution
as a soul, which then helps them relax,
I hope, into being themselves and opening
up to their natural gifts, which just
like you and I've been talking about,
most people are naturally intuitive.
I, I can't, I, I would like to say
all people are naturally intuitive
Rupert Isaacson: in my experience.
I think all
Denise Elizabeth Byron: people, yeah.
I mean, and that it's
Rupert Isaacson: in
Denise Elizabeth Byron: our species.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
I mean, whether we shut it down or
don't shut it down or develop it.
So a lot of people will show
up for that, some people.
Another, another level of conversation
very often is I'm doing this
healing modality with horses.
How can I leave my regular job?
Start my work in this realm.
So, because of my background, which
we're not gonna go into all the details,
but other jobs that I've done and other
other parts of my life, I love looking
at people's paths of livelihood and
paths of soul work and paths of devotion.
And then if there's a way to
connect our passion and what we
love with a livelihood, then let's
do, and it, that's another, that's
nuancing a whole different way.
It also involves very much honoring
and listening to a more spiritually
supported path maybe than a
more materially supported path.
Although sometimes those two don't go,
go together obviously, but there is,
there's so many conversations that I
have and I love it because each person
to a person, this just has always just
made me feel, I don't even know, it just
blows my mind, I guess, to a person.
Every horse person I have ever worked
with goes back, listens to their
recordings, takes notes, and wants to
deepen their evolution of their soul.
They want to become better people.
They want to become better in
relationship with their horses.
And they're friends and family too.
But you know,
Rupert Isaacson: but mostly the horses.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: It's the horses.
You know, it's a nice side product, you
know, side, side benefit that you get to
be better at relationships in general.
But it is that relationship and
I always bring it back to self.
And I think people are
really hard on themselves.
And like I was saying before, when
we're really hard on ourselves or, or
we have too much expectation, we're
gonna shut down that intuitive side.
It's the listening, it's the open.
It's like you were saying with the heart,
when you're on the horse, you're, you're
kind of forced into this openness that you
Rupert Isaacson: have to go
to the other side of fear.
You
Denise Elizabeth Byron: do.
Yeah.
And you, yeah.
And you talk about that, that dimension
that the horses take you into, right?
Mm-hmm.
That's, I think, why I can connect
with this beautiful community is
because you already know that there's
another dimension beyond this.
There's multiple dimensions beyond this.
Rupert Isaacson: Here's another question.
When we look at astrology, we're
looking at a solar system that has
been known to us because we sit on
this planet and we look up at the sky.
And, but although recently, you
know, Pluto's been added to that.
Mm-hmm.
And we think other planets may,
there may be this mysterious planet
X or the ninth planet or whatever.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Oh yeah.
There's quite a number now.
Rupert Isaacson: Yes.
Right.
And.
But in astrology, of course, these
unknowns are not, astrology is often
presented as a sort of a, a fixed,
like there are these planets and they
relate to the sun on the moon like
this and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And often I'm wondering,
yeah, but aren't there more?
And
Denise Elizabeth Byron: yes, and actually,
Rupert Isaacson: and if there are, what
are they doing and why aren't they talked
about or how are they talked about?
Or
Denise Elizabeth Byron: I
have been blessed with a
mentor who, this is his forte.
Looking at asteroids, looking at the
moons of planets, looking at planets
further out, looking at black holes,
looking at everything that's astronomical.
Mm-hmm.
And how it can be interpreted
astrologically, there is, there
astrology is actually a, a, something
that's evolving all the time.
There is traditional astrology
and nothing wrong with that.
It works really, really well.
It's powerful.
But evolutionary astrology is
something that, where it's changing,
it's shifting, it's growing.
And I have lots of books
here and behind me.
There's also me looking at astrology.
From a different lens, you know,
astrology, like everything else
has a very patriarchal lens.
It has a colonial lens, if
you will, to some extent.
Not
Rupert Isaacson: entirely though.
There, there, there is a,
Denise Elizabeth Byron: not entirely,
Rupert Isaacson: I'd say it's
one of the, one of the areas
where you get a kind of a real,
Denise Elizabeth Byron: it's somewhat a
Rupert Isaacson: balance, do you?
Not,
Denise Elizabeth Byron:
depending on Yes, yes and no.
Venus obviously is well
represented, right?
Aphrodite, Venus moon, the moon, moon
is considered the more of a feminine.
But I will just say this, and
again, we don't have to, but
Rupert Isaacson: the planets
themselves are mostly male.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: They are.
I don't wanna belabor it, but
this is really, this is really
Rupert Isaacson: good information.
Well, those mostly in German.
In German, the sun is female.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Oh, I know that.
That's cool.
Rupert Isaacson: Isn't that interesting?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: I
love it as it should be.
No, I'm fine with whatever it is.
But there are asteroids and
astronomers have, in recent years
really focused on naming new objects
after women goddesses in particular.
Rupert Isaacson: I've noticed that.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
What's, yeah, what's really
interesting is to look at some of
these goddesses and then go back in
time, preyer even, and look at the
matriarchal lens of something similar.
And just notice, it's just a noticing.
How can this.
Goddess who has come to
us in a particular form.
We could take Diana,
a moon goddess, right.
Artemis.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: In
astrology, there is a asteroid,
Diana that we can track.
There's Vesta or hesta
we can track goddess.
Yeah.
We can track a lot of them in a chart.
Juno is another one that we
track a lot for relationships.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: If you look at the
patriarchal connection to Juno, they want
Juno to, I'm not kidding, this is real.
They want Juno to let women know
that suffering because of her
husband is part of the deal.
It's just part of
Rupert Isaacson: what Yeah.
She gets, she gets revenge all the time.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Oh yeah.
She gets revenge.
Rupert Isaacson: All sorts of horrible
Denise Elizabeth Byron: things.
But if you go back earlier in time
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: What
they based Juno on was really
an advocate of all people, but
particularly women and children.
Rupert Isaacson: Sure.
And, and just back to that, you
like the Greek thing of inventing
the Amazons as people that had to
be conquered by their male heroes.
Yeah.
When in fact they were trading partners.
Yeah.
And probably the people coming
back on the ships from Scalia
who had exchanged, you know, with
probably some high status female
Denise Elizabeth Byron: mm-hmm.
Rupert Isaacson: Warrior leader tattooed.
And the lead, the, the high status
lead woman probably went away
thinking, well that was a good deal.
I, you know, made a bit of money there.
And bit puny these Greeks, but hey,
and the, the Greek went away going, oh
God, they're a bit wild, aren't they?
Well, well, I got some good pelts there,
but we can't have those people coming back
to, to Athens, but yeah, I I hear you.
We, we have inherited
a largely patriarchal
Denise Elizabeth Byron:
Well, yeah, and it's fine.
It's just, we need to sort through it.
So when we're looking at a chart and
we're looking at how can these planets,
which are, I mean, they're fascinating.
How can these planets give us information?
I have to look back and say, there's
thousands of years of support for this.
This is a question.
A lot of people have this question,
how can the planets, which actually
don't line up in the same way
they did thousands of years ago,
astronomically and astrologically?
How does it all still work?
Mm-hmm.
It just does.
And a lot, and again, that's not a
scientific answer at all, but it's just
that when we look at the interpretation of
how the sun, the moon the, what was on the
the horizon, what we call the rising sign,
what was on the horizon when we were born?
How Saturn, can I just talk
about your, your generation?
Sure.
Just for a minute.
Okay.
So I, I'm guessing, based on
things you've said, you were born
in the later part of the sixties.
Rupert Isaacson: 1967.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Okay.
So 1966.
In 1967, so 1966, those
people fire horses.
They're all in their fire
Rupert Isaacson: horse here.
And I'm still fire horse
'cause I'm, I'm just Oh, cool.
February.
Yeah.
So I'm
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Okay.
Rupert Isaacson: I, I, I, interesting.
Squeeze in by a whisker, like a
Denise Elizabeth Byron: felt
Rupert Isaacson: done.
That's actually going to
be a question of mine.
About a, how does the Chinese stuff
marry up with the western stuff?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Okay.
Rupert Isaacson: B, Northern hemisphere.
Southern hemisphere.
'cause it must be Oh
Denise Elizabeth Byron: yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: Flipped on its head.
Yeah.
They're different, you know.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: And c yeah, let's
talk, we wanna talk about fire horses
because it's the year of the fire horse.
Okay.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Well,
Rupert Isaacson: but yeah,
I am a fire horse for sure.
Yeah.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Okay, good.
All right.
I'm gonna dovetail this in.
So, Western astrology fire horse, I'll,
I'll make a, I'll make a link here.
Rupert Isaacson: So I'm
an Aquarius fire horse.
As you may know, if you've been following
my work, we are also horsey folk here.
And we have been training horses for
many, many years in the manner of
the old classical dressage masters.
This is something which is
often very confusing for people.
We shine a light on that murky, difficult
stuff and make it crystal clear.
If you'd like to learn to train your
horse in the manner of the old masters and
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Denise Elizabeth Byron: Okay.
That would make sense.
You would have to be born in
early February of that year.
Yeah, February 4th of 67.
Okay.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: So in
66 and actually starting in
63, building in 64, 65, 66, 67.
There's a combination of two
planets in Virgo, Uranus, and
Pluto that are very close together.
And then two planets,
Rupert Isaacson: so many jokes.
So little time, sorry.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: And then.
In Pisces, we have Chiron and Saturn.
So in your year and in 1966, and
even in my year in 64 they're
opposite each other in these two
signs that represent so very simply.
This is very simple.
Pisces would be, oh, look at that.
Rupert Isaacson: What happened there?
And why did that
Denise Elizabeth Byron: happen?
We're we're, we're having fun.
This is great.
Rupert Isaacson: Did you see that?
Denise Elizabeth Byron:
Yeah, that was great.
A little extra bonus from the other realms
Rupert Isaacson: for those who are
listening, a bunch of balloons just went
up in our screens for no reason at all.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: It, it's a
gesture thing, but it's, it never
happens when I try to make it.
Rupert Isaacson: Thank you.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: It
never happens when I try
Rupert Isaacson: on the realm.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: It only
happens when the universe, oh,
Rupert Isaacson: what,
Denise Elizabeth Byron: what
Rupert Isaacson: we mess.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: It only happens
when the universe makes it happen.
Okay, so I have to say
this, I have to finish this.
So these, these planets lining up, right?
Pisces is the healer, the compassion,
the mystic, the spiritual, right?
Virgo is healing.
It's looking at the healing arts.
It's service, it's work, it's devotion.
And so in your chart, wherever they
may be, they're opposite each other.
And they are, they create what I call a
conduit that opens you up as someone who
wants to bring the spiritual and, and
a bit of the scientific really in some
form, something very practical into the
world that is going to help with healing.
And we obviously, we heal ourselves first.
Virgo also represents a lot about
psychology mental, physical wellbeing.
So there's, this is the beauty of
our astrology is it gives us clues
as to where we go in this lifetime.
Why did my soul choose this lifetime?
How do I wanna evolve?
And because of the balloons, I
can't remember where we started
this part of the conversation.
Rupert Isaacson: We, we
Denise Elizabeth Byron:
blame it on the balloons.
Rupert Isaacson: I can't
telling you that happened.
Only for those of you who are listening
a whole bunch, like two or three times.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: It's
never happened to me, me before.
Like that
Rupert Isaacson: went spontaneously
up through both of our screens.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: No, the cosmos is
saying, listen, this is to celebrate that.
Okay, so fire horse.
Absolutely.
Celebratory
Rupert Isaacson: fire
Denise Elizabeth Byron: horse.
Yeah.
Celebrating.
Okay.
So fire horses 1966, early 1967.
The fire horse.
Oh, how does Chinese astrology
they're very different.
They're extraordinarily different.
I'm lucky that I know, just
enough to know, just enough.
But there are elements, I think
of the fire horse that bring a lot
of resiliency, a lot of strength.
Obviously you've got some
fire, so there's passion.
You've got the horse.
All of those qualities that
you attributed to the horse
are real in Chinese astrology.
So when I combine them with the Western
astrology, and I look at this connection
between the Pisces Virgo, and then
there's, you know, a whole bunch of
other things, obviously in a chart.
What I'm aware of is that fire horse
people came here to really work
in the healing realms with the,
the, the qi or the, you know, the
strength of this inner flame, this
energy, this life horse energy.
So when a fire horse is not happy,
when a fire horse is feeling a little
down, they need to come back to
themselves and do that inner healing
and say, what am I not expressing?
Because you are a conduit.
This is who you are, this is how
you're designed, and so how can
you work with your life force
energy, continue to create a greater
capacity for that and keep going.
And, you know, 60.
The age of 60 is we're, I always feel
blessed if we get to live to be 60.
How, how amazing that is.
And so what wisdom can you share?
But you considering how
Rupert Isaacson: many times
you've said, hold my beer.
Yeah.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Right.
And you know, you say you've got this
Saturn and Chiron in Pisces very often.
And what happens there is by age 59,
which you must have just turned 59.
Rupert Isaacson: Yes.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah, I did.
Yeah.
You are in your Saturn return, which
is to say Saturn is coming back
to where it was when you were born
Rupert Isaacson: Uhhuh.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: And so it is your
time to deepen into the lessons you've
learned and to step into your wisdom and
something I really feel about horses.
So again, kind of bringing more of
that back into the conversation.
I've always felt from the time I was very
little that horses and whales, horses and
whales were in particular wisdom keepers.
One was in the water and one was on land.
Now obviously cats are,
dogs are, every animal is a
Rupert Isaacson: wisdom.
I often think of horses as land dolphins.
Yeah.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Oh, that's great.
I love that.
I love that.
So the, the wisdom that those of you
that are 59, 60, 61, when we get to
that, if we are lucky enough to live
into that age, it is I think important
for us to, to really consider.
How we wanna share our
wisdom in the world.
So then we can look at a chart again and
say, well, how, how do we want Kansas?
And I actually, I just taught
a class with Kansas on Saturn.
And I had brought Kansas in to
do some heart math with us so we
could connect with our hearts.
'cause Saturn can feel
very like, oh, mental.
But it's, you know, again, being
embodied as you know, from your
work being in your body is huge.
Otherwise, the wisdom, it it, it's
not just here, it's everywhere.
And so, how do you wanna
live into your wisdom?
So fire horses is, it is, I think
it's your time to really, you know,
again, and I think Rupert, for what
you do and how you teach, it's exactly
right for a fire horse right now.
Don't get on the horse until
you have made a connection.
You're listening.
You ask, just because it's a fire
horse here does not mean to go fast.
And in fact, right now, while you
and I are talking in early March
we're having a Mercury retrograde.
The last thing anybody needs to do
is get on a horse and gallop away.
Right now.
Rupert Isaacson: Why?
What is a Mercury, mercury
retrograde, and why, why does
it lead us to that conclusion?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Okay, so
Mercury, it can lead us to many
conclusions, but Mercury is our
planet that moves the fastest.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Okay.
And when it retrogrades, which is again,
it's engaging in a, an elliptical orbit
that looks like it's going backwards.
Mm-hmm.
In a astrology chart, but let me just
say, it's not going backwards, obviously.
Mm-hmm.
In the sky.
But Mercury gives us
reminders about communication.
Certainly it relates to technology,
it relates to anything thinking ideas.
And the idea of a retrograde
is a resting place, place.
An idea of a retrograde is a place where
we renew, we refresh, we review, we
don't have to jump forward all the time.
That would not be wise, right?
I mean, if we're just constant,
Rupert Isaacson: why would it not be wise?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Well, if
you're constantly jumping forward,
when are you ever integrating,
you know, integration is
where the wisdom comes from.
Gathering knowledge is great, but if
you don't take time to integrate it,
Rupert Isaacson: if you're eating
all the time, you can't digest.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Exactly.
Exactly.
I mean, that's exactly it.
So we are at a, currently when we're
recording this in a time where we
don't wanna move too quickly but
there will come times this year
where we want to move quickly.
The fire horse will say,
yes, let's go for a ride.
Let's, let's, let's go on a new adventure.
Rupert Isaacson: When does
the Mercury Retrograde end?
And then
Denise Elizabeth Byron: for
this, this timeframe, March
20th, we have three of them.
Yeah.
Three of them a year.
Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: So, and for some
of us side note, just a little side note,
I was born with needle mercury retrograde,
which there have been some studies
done that people born with a, a mercury
retrograde have a little neurodiversity,
often brains work a little differently.
During Mercury retrograde,
my brain works really well.
It's a great time for me to write.
It's a great time for
me to get things done.
I'm working on my taxes,
you know, it's fabulous.
The rest of the time,
eh, you know, I go slow.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Interesting.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: So interesting.
Okay, here's a question.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: Most astrology that
we know of, or all astrology that
we know of that comes out of it,
comes out of the Northern hemisphere.
So, i've often wondered, and you
know, my family's South African.
When we look up at the sky down
there, it's completely different.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: It is
Rupert Isaacson: completely different.
I mean, it's not that we don't have
some of the same heavenly bodies,
but we have other heavenly bodies
down there that don't appear up here.
The Southern cross is, is an
obvious one and some crossover.
So Orion is there.
The player Ds are there,
I guess the planets there.
So, but they, of course,
the seasons are reversed.
So is astrology reversed down there?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Wow.
You know, all I know, I, I ha I have
my mentor Philip Sedgwick in my head.
I wish I could channel him right now.
The, the, the easy answer for me is
it works because there's an adjustment
in astrology that makes it work.
So when you put in, when you're
putting in the time of birth, which
is latitude and longitude and time
of birth are, are vital for a chart.
So when you're putting in latitude
and longitude, the chart automatically
adjusts in the way it needs to
for me to be able to read it.
Rupert Isaacson: Oh, I see.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: But
see, Philip could, Philip, he
lives on this side of my head.
For those of you that can't see,
I'm gesturing to my left for no
good reason other than Philip
living over here in my head.
He would know why.
He could tell you the exact technical one.
Rupert Isaacson: Who
is Philip, by the way?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Philip
Sedwick is this very interesting
astrologer who lives in Arizona.
Rupert Isaacson: Should
we be talking to him?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: You know, you
would probably love talking to him.
He's Philip
Rupert Isaacson: Sedgwick.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
He's really interesting.
And he, again, he looks at black holes.
Okay.
G lactic anomalies and astronomy.
And I think as an astrologer it
is, I, you know, he has brought
something into my awareness that a
lot of other astrologers don't study.
So I've, I've always appreciated that
I have a lot of excellent mentors.
I really believe in mentors.
Rupert Isaacson: Can you give us
a bit of an idea of what he says
about the anomalies, the black
holes, the asteroids, and so forth?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: In my very simple
way I can say it from my own chart because
he's taught me a lot through my own chart.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: So
I have I wonder, do you know
where your moon is in astrology?
Rupert Isaacson: In my own particular one?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
In your chart.
Rupert Isaacson: Does that mean you
have to know what time you were born?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yes.
Or a day?
I mean, for the moon?
It just depends on the day.
Rupert Isaacson: Well,
Denise Elizabeth Byron: it
doesn't matter if you don't.
It's okay.
Rupert Isaacson: 1967, but I, I, I think
it might have been a Saturday and I can
never remember whether my mom said it was
nine o'clock in the morning or midnight.
I, I can never remember.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Okay.
It doesn't matter.
I'll just say it from my, from where I am.
So when I was born, my moon was in
Sagittarius at a particular degree,
and that degree of Sagittarius
correlates with a galactic.
Anomaly of some kind.
So he spends his time, and again, he's
combining the astronomy and the astrology,
and he's looking at what does a galactic
anomaly or a black hole or something,
how does that affect the personality?
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: And so he
has assigned some qualities to people
like me who have, let's say, my rising
sign is also a conjunctive black hole.
I, you know, he has ways of doing this.
And what it does is it, I feel like
for me, it says, I am responsible.
I have to be responsible about
how I conduct myself in the world.
And here's how my partner
David, would explain it
Rupert Isaacson: more so than others.
I mean, that
Denise Elizabeth Byron: could be anyway.
Yes.
And I'll tell you why.
Because there's energy there.
There's energy there.
So I'll give you a fun example.
David said, David always talks about
this every time, wherever we go.
What does
Rupert Isaacson: David do, by the way?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Oh, he is a, a
doctor of medical Qigong who also does a
deep, deep dive into Daoist inner alchemy.
Okay.
And so he works with, sounds like
Rupert Isaacson: we should
have him on the show.
Okay.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah,
you should definitely, you guys
would have a great conversation.
Yeah.
Yeah.
A lot of really, a lot of depth there.
And again, looking at it
from, again, the eastern.
Mm, the Eastern philosophies.
So anyway, when I go into a place, if it's
empty, like our local coffee place, if I
walk, we walk over there in the morning.
If it's empty, invariably within
two minutes it will be full.
And this was a thing when
I lived in Santa Cruz.
I used to go to a particular chocolate
shop that doesn't exist anymore, where
they would have sipping chocolate and
I would go sit in the back so I could
do my work and just be out of the way.
And I would just watch
as people just came in.
That's a black holy fact.
So how am I going to manage that?
I'm gonna just be very aware
that I need to, and this is,
I really, really believe this.
I need to remember that I,
like every, everybody else is
a vehicle of light and love.
And I, I have to start my
day and I do this every day.
I am a vehicle of light and love and
so are you and so is everyone else.
I just wanna be more mindful that that
is the energy that I'm channeling.
Because if I'm not in a
good place, it's not pretty.
Rupert Isaacson: So, not pretty
not for pretty, for people who come
into your orbit, not pretty for you?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Pretty much, yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Not,
not, not a happy day for anybody.
You know, but, and I think all of us
can make a case for that in general
because like we've been talking about,
we do have these energy fields that
come out from our bodies, right?
So if anybody gets caught in that
energy field may not be a good thing.
But I do think some of us, and again,
Philip could obviously give you a lot
more understanding of this, but the
way our planets connect with these
black holes or the way they connect
with the, you know, the galactic,
there's something called the Galactic
Center and the Super Galactic Center.
And I just happen to have a lot of planets
connecting a lot of those together.
So, okay.
Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: I want
to go back to animals.
Okay.
So you've talked about some past life
stuff and we talked about ancestor
stuff and we know that to be a human
in the wild state is usually to have
a relationship with about 300 species
that is quite intimate because we're
also creatures, we're amphibious.
So all the earliest sapiens sapiens
stuff, there's previous humans that
didn't really go much near the sea, but
we are very much margin of land and water.
So it's not just the it's not
just the land animals for us.
Okay.
Right.
And when you talk, when one
hears people talking about
past lives, it's interesting.
They often talk about their time
as another human, but I don't hear
people talking about their time as
a, as a sea turtle or their time as
a boll weevil or their time as Right.
You know, and that could simply
be, 'cause that isn't memory.
And that, but I presume
that, that if we're talking
about fields of consciousness
Denise Elizabeth Byron: mm-hmm.
Rupert Isaacson: And interweaving
fields of consciousness and that souls
in whatever way and whatever souls
are, move to some degree through
these fields of consciousness.
Mm-hmm.
I imagine that two things.
I imagine that if there's other
dimensions, which clearly there must
be presumably we move through those,
so we must have lives in those as well.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Mm-hmm.
Rupert Isaacson: And presumably we must
go into the fields of consciousness
of animals, plants, rocks, planets.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: I would
Rupert Isaacson: agree.
The time, the time when I was Mercury,
the time when I was an earthworm.
The time when I was,
Denise Elizabeth Byron: you
know, the winged messenger.
Yes, yes.
Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: You know, the time
when I was an earthworm on mercury.
Well, that probably didn't happen
unless it's mercury in another
dimension where it has an atmosphere.
But.
Do you know what I mean?
It seems to me that there must
be so much infinite diversity.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Mm-hmm.
Agreed.
Rupert Isaacson: How is it, is it just
simply that because we are looking
through this particular lens when
we're in a human lifetime mm-hmm.
We're going to interpret it in that way.
Mm-hmm.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
I, I wanna be respectful too.
There are certain cultures and
spiritual traditions that really,
that really do think that human souls
only reincarnate into human souls.
So I wanna be very respectful.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: That that is,
that is a teaching that comes through.
Mm-hmm.
It isn't my personal belief.
Let's say I like you, I'm
thinking, well, you know, we, I
mean, think about it this way.
Rupert Isaacson: We must also
be aliens sometimes, right?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, how do you know
we're not right now?
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: I mean,
you know, this is the thing, you
Rupert Isaacson: know, and yeah.
If there's spores that come in from
outer space and there's right elements
that come in from outer space,
Denise Elizabeth Byron: we
are must, stardust, must
Rupert Isaacson: be, yeah.
Yeah.
I
Denise Elizabeth Byron: mean, the
physical body, we, everything in us
ourselves, it, that's a proven fact.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: We actually,
Rupert Isaacson: no, for sure,
Denise Elizabeth Byron: for sure.
Yeah.
That's scientific.
But from a consciousness point of
view, this is, again, this, this is
one of my favorite things to think
about, talk about is what is that
really, you know, if we are all one
consciousness on some level, and then
we differentiate into these forms, I
could have easily come back as this plant
that's sitting next to me or come back
as a, you know, in an animal's form.
Or like you said, the, the, I
mean the crystals, the rocks.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Denise Elizabeth Byron:
Everything has something in it.
And I think as we get further
along with our science, we
are actually finding that out.
That is, that is actually
being proven every day in
Rupert Isaacson: some I I would agree.
I, how did I hear it?
Brilliantly expressed the other day by
some physicist or other, but anyway,
one, one listens to these podcasts, but
it, it, it really resonated with me.
Mm-hmm.
Maybe somebody listening, you can put
me straight if you heard this one too,
that the idea is that if there is a
field of energy or consciousness or love.
And that that is everything.
Mm-hmm.
Presumably that permeates all dimensions.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Exactly.
Rupert Isaacson: Because there,
there's what isn't, what isn't.
So what is must be love.
Okay.
So if that therefore must permeate,
permeate all dimensions, all
solar systems, all spiritual
realms or all this and all that.
My shoe.
Yes.
Your glasses.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yes.
Everything.
Rupert Isaacson: My fingernail,
you know, the gravel outside
there in, in my stable yard.
Which is old seashells, which is Yeah.
Living mass, you know, the,
the, the plastic on my computer
mouse, which is a fossil forest.
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
The
way it was explained was
this consciousness, this love,
if one thinks of it like
a, like an ocean mm-hmm.
Oceans come together with
certain energies and form waves.
When we look at a wave,
we say that's a wave.
Like it's, yes, this thing almost a bit
separate from the ocean because it looks
like it, it, it, the ocean is sort of that
blue bit there and that wave, it's that
white bit that's going up the cliff there.
But then when it crashes on the
cliff and it goes back, it goes
to the, becomes the ocean again.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yes.
Rupert Isaacson: And that,
but what creates the wave is.
A concentration of matter and
energy within that ocean that
makes it behave like that.
Yes.
And then you can have lots and
lots and lots and lots of them
all in community together.
And those are like the wave
people, but a few miles away over
there you've got the flat people.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yes.
Rupert Isaacson: And up there you've
got the water vapor people and you know,
over there you've got the rain people.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Mm-hmm.
Rupert Isaacson: But they're all the same.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: Just, you know, and,
and they can be, each one of those can
be any of those things at any time.
And that made perfect sense to me.
It's like I see, yes.
Light, for example, you know, people
often talk about matter being light.
So we, and we all know that molecules
can be dense and create you or your
sweater or it can be less, you know,
close together and can be the coffee
that you're drinking or it can be
really far apart, which can be, you
know, me crack cracking a fart here and
filling the air with the smell of roses.
Just a particular type of rose that
thrives upon, you know, dead matter.
Those are all molecules.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Mm-hmm.
Rupert Isaacson: And we also know
that even solid matter is actually.
Lots and lots of molecules
dancing, vibrating with,
with empty space in between.
We know that that's measured.
We also know that light is both a
wave and a particle depending on
whether it's observed or measured.
And, and so,
Denise Elizabeth Byron: yes.
Rupert Isaacson: So we also have to
accept that ambiguity and simultaneous
states are being must be the norm.
And when we look at the ocean, we actually
do, I think, see it in physical form.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yes.
Rupert Isaacson: But because
we're visual predators who tend
to hone in on things mm-hmm.
We tend to hone in on the wave or the
still pool or the rain or the whirlpool.
Yes.
Because we're always asking, how does that
thing affect me and my survival right now?
Yes,
Denise Elizabeth Byron: exactly.
Yes.
Rupert Isaacson: Right.
But it's a short term focus, right?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: It is.
Yeah.
It just really asks us to be
wider in our, our lens and to be
very, and you know, again, I just
take us back to the being a kid.
Take us back to, you know, what is
it like when you're that wonderment?
And I hope that's still
happening for kids.
Like, am I, am I
Rupert Isaacson: luckily
they're all born with it.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: I hope
Rupert Isaacson: so.
It's just whether or not, how,
how long is it allowed to go on?
That said,
Denise Elizabeth Byron: yeah.
That 'cause that's
Rupert Isaacson: getting better.
I think it was harsher when I was a boy.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Good.
I,
Rupert Isaacson: I think that, I think
that kids actually have more leeway now.
Oddly enough.
From what I can observe,
they're certainly beaten less.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Now there's that,
Rupert Isaacson: that's progress, right?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: I have
a question for you too.
You talk, you've talked about
patriarchy, the patriarchal lens.
You've talked about your
mother, your grandmother.
You have talked about your
husband, you haven't talked about
your father, you haven't talked
about your grandfather, can we?
Sure.
And so they have been absent
from the conversation?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yes.
Rupert Isaacson: Is that because they
were antipathetic or is that because
they just don't enter the story?
Denise Elizabeth Byron:
Well, actually interesting.
I was raised by a single mother,
Rupert Isaacson: Uhhuh.
Denise Elizabeth Byron:
My father was in Vietnam.
Okay.
And when he returned, I was,
let me think about this.
I, I was born, I think before he
went to Vietnam, but not much before.
So he wasn't around.
Rupert Isaacson: And presumably they
married quite young then if he was sent to
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Vietnam?
Yes.
Yes.
They were very young.
And so he wasn't around when I was
born or he was around when I was
born, but not when I was young.
He was briefly back and forth
while he was in the service.
When he got out of Vietnam, I think
this was maybe the late sixties,
early seventies life was not pleasant.
I had a very unpleasant
childhood in a lot of ways.
Yeah.
My parents split up and that
Rupert Isaacson: he was
around for a bit then.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
So having a lot of hardship.
So when I was growing up there, I
had, I had some uncles who really
were fabulous at stepping in at times.
I did have two grandfathers, both
of whom were aquariums actually.
And one of Ukrainian, Ukrainian,
a aquas aqua, like Aquarius.
Yeah.
Not Ukrainians, but aquariums.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: What are
you, by the way, new information?
Rupert Isaacson: What are you,
Denise Elizabeth Byron: What?
Oh, you, I'm a Taurus.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
Ah,
Denise Elizabeth Byron: yeah,
I'm, you know, I'm the solid.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: You know,
Rupert Isaacson: snorts Pause ground.
Yeah,
Denise Elizabeth Byron: pause
Rupert Isaacson: Earth.
Yeah.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: So anyway, yes.
So my, both my grandfathers were alive
for a short bit when I was young, Uhhuh.
But most of my grandparents
died quite young,
Rupert Isaacson: quite young.
Mine too.
Yeah.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: And my
father was not in my life hardly
at all, for many, many reasons.
Rupert Isaacson: And then there wasn't
a significant stepfather that came into
Denise Elizabeth Byron: No, not at all.
And then you know, the partner I'm
with right now, David, he's amazing.
Wonderful.
I am very, I love being able to
be with someone who I can have
these kinds of conversations with.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
And we can just dive deep into similar
ways of we see the world very differently.
He's a lot more scientific than I am.
Yeah.
And he has a lot of I think in a
lot of ways very similar to you.
He studies, he's, he dives deep into
history and science into archeology.
But we, like you, there's
a philosopher there.
There's someone who's knows that
spirituality and the man, mundane,
practical, come together in a form.
So, we have been together about
13 years, so I feel very blessed.
Mm-hmm.
This era of my life has been very good.
So when I talk about the patriarchy,
I wanted just be sure that people
understand that men, not, not all men are
channeling some evil, domineering energy.
Some might still be, but for the
most part, I've been very fortunate
to be able to be around men who
Rupert Isaacson: arent well.
And I think, I think to be fair
to all humans, toxic humanity,
Denise Elizabeth Byron: ah, fair
Rupert Isaacson: knows no gender.
Good
Denise Elizabeth Byron: phrase.
Rupert Isaacson: Knows no gender.
Yeah.
There
Denise Elizabeth Byron: can be no, yeah,
Rupert Isaacson: there can be
different styles and flavors.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Right.
Rupert Isaacson: But it's
not limited to one gender.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: No, it isn't.
And actually that's a, that's
actually a really good point, and I
think a very fair point to bring up.
I think that toxicity of any kind, the
struggles that humans have being on earth
Rupert Isaacson: it's hard to be a
human being alive on planet earth
Denise Elizabeth Byron: sometimes.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Denise Elizabeth Byron: yeah.
It is.
And so to have compassion, empathy,
some days, I will be honest, some
days it's hard to look at what's
going on in the world right now.
Rupert Isaacson: Oh, sure.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: And,
and find our compassion and
empathy for those who have power.
But, and I will just underscore this,
this is why I think that it's important
for us to come back to how is it that
I am a vehicle of light and love?
Mm-hmm.
How is it that I, for each of us, how is
it that we are vehicles of light and love?
Because if we can continue to deepen,
to grow, expand into our wisdom and
into that frequency of love, then
we are bound to make a difference.
Even if there are those out there
who have a lot of power, who are
not remembering that I believe
we still can make a difference.
Rupert Isaacson: Yes.
There's a beautiful quote that I
really like, which is by Marcus
Aurelius, which is, or is it Epictetus?
Can't remember.
Someone will probably
tell me in the comments.
If you listening to this and
you do know, please do tell
me in the comments actually.
But which is be like the vine, the
grapevine, the grape vine doesn't care
whether it's been a drought year or
a rainier and the grape vine doesn't
care if you cut it or tread on it.
It just keeps bearing grapes.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Hmm.
I love that.
Rupert Isaacson: And it fulfills
its destiny to now back to horses.
I feel that that is that vehicle of
light and love vehicle, vessel vehicle.
They allow, they allow
themselves to be vehicles for us.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Mm-hmm.
Rupert Isaacson: That is
a, an act of generosity.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: Sometimes they unload us,
Denise Elizabeth Byron: but
Rupert Isaacson: for the most part, they
are incredibly generously selflessly,
tolerant and will convey us as vehicles.
And they are vehicles of
light and love because they
allow us to pursue our dreams.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yes.
Rupert Isaacson: That is what they do.
Yeah.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: When given that there's
a lot of horse people listening and I'm
sure a lot of them are gonna contact you.
Oh, and by the way lads, anyone
listening, I'm totally gonna get over
myself and get a reading from Denise.
I'm terrified 'cause I'm terrified she's
gonna tell me what I don't want to hear.
And you know, all of that stuff.
Of course, as usual, you know.
Oh great.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: I'll tell you.
Well, I might, but I'll do it in a way.
I'll use my black hole energy and I'll
do it in a way that will help you.
Rupert Isaacson: Oh, thank you so much.
But I'm gonna do it because all my mates
have done it within the journey on and
horse boy community and they've all
come back and said, you know, Rupert,
this lady is kind of the real deal.
You should, you know, so I'm gonna
so we'll have that conversation
afterwards and I, and so people are
gonna wanna contact you and we will
absolutely give you her contact
and all that in a few moments.
But okay, so these horse people that are
listening right now, if you could tell
them, you've, you, you've, you've done
charts for a lot of horse people now.
Mm-hmm.
And a lot of horse people that are
particularly working within the desire
to enter fields of consciousness with
their horses and to enter the healing
arts with their horses and so on.
And to heal wounds of personal
and to try and be as good to their
horses as they can be in the process.
Yes.
What it, what comes through for you?
From that experience that you've been
having the last few years that you
would kind of say to every horse woman,
every horse woman listening to this
Denise Elizabeth Byron: I would say
trust what you hear, trust what you feel.
And because I think that most
people who contact me are so much
further along in their journey than
they give themselves credit for.
There's a, a, I would say a very
big streak of perfectionism.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: That runs through
a lot of people in the horse realm.
Rupert Isaacson: I would agree.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: And it comes from
a commitment to wanting to be excellent.
It comes from a commitment to
wanting to do best for their horses.
Right.
So it's not coming from a
quote unquote bad place.
And I would say please be
compassionate with yourself.
Be sensitive with yourself.
Treat yourself with as much
love as you treat your horse.
Rupert Isaacson: Oh, that's good.
That's good.
Treat yourself with as much
love as you treat your horse.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Mm-hmm.
Rupert Isaacson: Now, does that
mean I have to apply that to myself?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yes.
Rupert Isaacson: Boy,
Denise Elizabeth Byron: I
think we all need to hear this.
Whether it's a horse,
Rupert Isaacson: you're
so, you're so right.
You're so right.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: Treat yourself with
as much love as you treat your horse.
Brilliant.
Denise, thank you so much.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: You are welcome.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
We've kind of hit the two hour mark here.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: I know,
Rupert Isaacson: and we've arrived
here like really fast with balloons.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: So maybe this is
the moment to sign off for this one.
But because I'm gonna definitely get
with you and, and get the chart done, and
then if I dare, we'll do another podcast.
You know, I think it would be great
for people to hear more from you.
But I know a lot of people are
gonna wanna contact you now.
So please do the plugs.
Please tell us how to contact you.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: I think the best
way to contact me is through my website,
which is denise elizabeth byron.com.
It's, it's a Mouth by Byron
Rupert Isaacson: with YRON.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yes.
BYR
Rupert Isaacson: as Byron.
Yeah.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
Like Lord Byron, who I'm not
related to, but long, we'll talk
about that story another time.
We'll do that on a different podcast,
but yeah, that's the best way.
It's just through the website.
Send me an email.
I will respond to that email,
Rupert Isaacson: denise
elizabeth byron.com.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yes.
And I will respond.
Super.
Yeah.
We'll see each other.
I'm also found on Facebook and
Instagram I can get messages there
as well, if that's easier for people.
Yeah,
Rupert Isaacson: yeah.
And similarly, yeah, if people are
looking for things that it's not just
about their chart, they probably maybe
have questions about their horse.
Mm-hmm.
They maybe have, you know, maybe their
stuff coming through with grief with
Denise Elizabeth Byron: mm-hmm.
Rupert Isaacson: Loved ones
and lost ones and things.
I presume that's all within your sphere.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yes.
It's not, you know, it's something
that often happens in a session.
Mm-hmm.
There's, there's a variety of tools.
I feel very blessed.
I've, I've lived enough decades
now that I've acquired a number
of, a number of tools to share,
and I'm very happy to share them.
Rupert Isaacson: We just did, you
know, a wonderful podcast on grief
with my great friend Carla Brams.
Which I think resonated with a
lot of people because, you know,
when you, you hit the 60 mark
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: People start to
fall around you and I mean, it's
not that they don't anyway, but it's
much more noticeable, obviously.
And so I would, I would encourage
anyone listening or watching too.
Bring that, if that seems right.
Yeah.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah.
And, and I think I, I look forward
to hearing that podcast as well.
It has been quite a time, and I
would just say this, as far as the
current astrology I do have the cosmic
compass conversations on YouTube.
Okay.
And I'm, I am trying to keep up
with that as much as possible and
talk to the planets and share a
little bit more about the astrology.
This is a significant year.
It's a fire horse year.
Yes.
Yeah.
But it's also a very
significant year in astrology.
So we are, we are navigating through
un literally unprecedented time.
And I don't know, maybe it's always
that way, but I feel like for
our lifetimes, this is probably
one of the biggest years we've
encountered, at least astrologically.
Rupert Isaacson: Oh, sure.
Certainly since 1945, I would say.
Yeah.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: I would
say that yes, you were correct.
And let's just keep being vehicles of
light and love as much as possible.
Rupert Isaacson: Yes.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Right now
Rupert Isaacson: I'm with you there.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Okay.
Rupert Isaacson: I'm with you there.
Alright, Denise.
Thank you so much.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Thank you so much.
This has been a great conversation.
Rupert Isaacson: It has, hasn't it?
Denise Elizabeth Byron:
I knew it would be fun.
Rupert Isaacson: What a blessing.
Those balloons.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: I know.
I see.
I can't make it happen.
Rupert Isaacson: Has that
happened to you before on a,
Denise Elizabeth Byron:
on a podcast, on a Zoom?
It has been.
It happens when I can't, like if I,
like there's a way here I'll show you.
Rupert Isaacson: And
is it always balloons?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: You can do this.
Rupert Isaacson: Uhhuh,
Denise Elizabeth Byron:
there's a thing, right?
Uhhuh.
But notice nothing is happening.
Right.
Wait, maybe I do this.
There it is.
See that?
Rupert Isaacson: Oh, I would,
Denise Elizabeth Byron: you can.
Okay.
There you go.
Rupert Isaacson: What?
Denise Elizabeth Byron: But
now that is the only one that
I can actually make happen.
I think technically
Rupert Isaacson: look
Denise Elizabeth Byron: at that.
I know, right?
It's a great way.
See people too bad.
People can't see that.
Rupert Isaacson: Well, they will.
'cause they're gonna
watch this on YouTube.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Oh, okay.
Great.
They
Rupert Isaacson: can see.
Yeah.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Excellent.
Rupert Isaacson: I'm floored.
Thank you.
That's
Denise Elizabeth Byron:
a great way to end.
I love
Rupert Isaacson: it.
What?
What a way to end.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Okay.
Rupert Isaacson: Alright.
I'll be in touch.
We'll do the chat.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Okay.
Rupert Isaacson: All right.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: Okay.
Rupert Isaacson: Have a great
rest of the day my friend.
Denise Elizabeth Byron: You too.
Rupert Isaacson: Alright, byebye.
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