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Beyond The Message is a weekly podcast that dives deeper into the weekend’s teaching. Released after each Sunday service, it offers thoughtful conversation, added insight, and practical reflection to help our community process and apply what they heard. Whether you're revisiting the message or catching up, this podcast is designed to help you go deeper throughout the week.
Welcome to Beyond the Message, the podcast where we take the weekly teaching at Christ Community Chapel and we bring it into your week. Each week we sit down together to talk, to laugh a little bit, and to figure out how to live out what it is that we're learning. if you didn't get to hear the sermon yet, no worries, drop down to the description, listen to it, and then I hope you'll come back and join us. My name is Stacey DiNardo and today I'm joined by Holly Diakandru, Mike Holwerda, and Brooks Montgomery. Welcome, guys. Thanks. Thank you. Great. We're starting a new sermon series, which is More Than Religion. And I loved actually what Pastor Zach talked about at the beginning. And just saying this is a message, you know, this is something that might feel like we've heard it before. This is a me. A series where we're reminding ourselves that we are made for relationship with God, and it's a message we need to hear over and over. Like, and he used the analogy of, like, talking, like, getting home and Amy saying, I love you. And he wouldn't be like, well, you don't need to tell me that. You already said that before. Like, no, we need to hear this. So love that. But to start things off, he. He started off with an analogy about him being a youth pastor. And I won't say that he, like, said he was the worst youth pastor or his boss said he was the worst youth pastor, but square peg, round hole, not a good fit. So what was your worst job? What would you categorize as being your worst job or the job that you were either the worst at or really didn't like or something like that? This would be easy. Summer after my senior year of high school, I worked for a cement construction company. Really? And I am. You do not strike me as a cement construction company. Yeah, whatever. The biggest square in the smallest hole. That was me. They called me the city slicker. Middleville, outside of, Grand Rapids, Michigan, very rural. And I had to prepare farms for cement work, which meant that I would shovel cow manure to the side. Wow. I did. One summer, I did not go back. I was invited back for the record, but I did not go back. City slicker got the invite. We are going to call him. City Slicker from here on out. Please, please don't. That would be great. That's a good one. I never knew that about you, but yes. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if this counts, because it was. I failed orientation at a Job. Oh. So I didn't actually. But, I think this fits the whole, you know, square, whole round peg or whatever. But I was trying to get a job for a dog walking company in downtown Chicago and the orientation and you failed the Orient? Well, it was kind. I go into a high rise building in downtown Chicago and I go up and there is a harness training class. So you watch these videos of like how to put on these different kind of harnesses and you're like, okay, this is easy. I can put a dog dog collar on. Didn't know this. They take you outside and they have six dogs lined up outside downtown Chicago. People are walking around and they go, all right, put these harnesses on. And I went, I think 2 for 6 on the harnesses, trying to wrestle these dogs. Didn't get the job. And I think that's probably the worst. I don't know if that counts. I didn't get the job, but wasn't great. Yeah, but that's. That's a good one. That's a good one. I honestly have never had a job that I didn't like. Of course. That's right. I'm really trying. I'm really trying to like, think. The only thing I can think of is that, I did nanny for a little bit and I. I like nannying, but the family never like came home when they said they're gonna come home. And I was a college student, so I was always late for class. And I don't like walking in and like making a commotion. So if I was gonna be late for class, I would skip the class. Very unhealthy habit. And so then I was skipping all these classes in my gr. So I don't know. I don't know if that counts as something, but that sounds very responsible. That is a very responsible answer. I just didn't want everyone to turn around and be like, oh my gosh, she's late. I think we talked about jobs once in another icebreaker. So I'm gonna do one that I am certain I've never mentioned and that is this could bring. People might know about this. I worked facilities for the Hudson school district a year between, like my freshman and sophomore year in college. So the Hudson facilities team at the time might be very different now was all men. And, I was not. But it was more so that then things. Awkward things happened. Like I would back. I backed a van into like a building. I had a situation now and they were very kind. They were like trying to cover for me and I was like, no, I'm just gonna fess up and call, like, our director. I did this. It's okay. So it actually wasn't like. I mean, I wasn't bad at everything, but probably definitely square peg, round holo for a lot of reasons. With my Hudson facilities job. Were you the first woman? I was the first woman ever. Wow. I mean, on, the Hudson city schools facilities, I've run into some of the facilities. Guys like, in the. I mean, obviously I am way older now, and they're like, they remember me. Was city. Was cities. My mind is blown. City slicker. One of the city slicker was helping with colleagues or no planning. Yeah, I was in the farm out back. Yeah, that's. There we go. That's my. Okay, well, that's good. Square pay ground hole. let's jump into this. Okay. So week one of this series, and it's about being just that. We are designed for relationship with God. And there were two primary passages, Genesis 2. 4 through 15, which is the story of the. Where, Adam was created. And I loved it. Actually. Zach pulled the same section out where at the end of that it says the Lord took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and to keep it. And it just speaks of again, this close relationship with God. and then also the very end of the Bible, Revelations 22:1 5. So seeing the whole story of the Bible come to fruition here, where, that passage ends with, no longer will there be anything accursed but the throne of God and the Lamb will be in it, and night will be no more. They will need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign forever and ever. and love that again that. That they will reign forever and ever. It's. It's us in relationship. So the three points that, Pastor Zach had was be, what is this story about? and just again, that square pay ground hole feeling like when we don't have relationship with God, there's something out of order within us. who is the main character? And the kind of point we'll talk about a little bit about us sometimes instead putting ourselves as the main character instead of really Jesus being the one and that. That gets disordered as well. And then where do I fit in? so to off. I just thought I'd kind of open it up for a little bit of dialogue around. Okay. The whole theme of this is that we are created for relationship with God. Do you. Do you believe this true? How do you See this as being true. and then second part of that is how do we get our need for relationship wrong or disordered? Jump right in, guys. Yeah, I mean I think for me that the tension point is what kind of relationship? Because on some level I think, I mean I have been following Jesus for a long time, since a young age. And I think there are two categories of relationship you can find yourself in. One of being and one of doing right. The relationship with God is one of doing right. And he's more of a. He's a boss, right? So the boss and you have the task and you serve him. And if you do a good job, relationship is good, right. You don't do a good job, relationship falls apart. Right. And that can be an area where we can misunderstand what this is about. And the second one, at least for me of trying to actually believe is that it's one of being. Like the coffee shop analogy at the end of like, hey, he's at the coffee shop waiting to be with you. Right. And I think for me that's been the wrestle. Right. And I think I told my wife a few years back I would be at every room in the house except at the dining room table, meaning I would be able to do what God asked, serve him, do anything. But actually no, just, just sit. And I think that becomes what kind of relationship? Is it a being relationship? Is it a doing relationship and earning and believing it's a being one through Jesus, I think that will. Yeah, that's where I would. That frames and shapes things for you and how you think about that. Yeah, yeah, that's really good. I love how when the Bible presents the hope, the truths that we can share, but also presents them in just such an honest, relatable way, like 1 Corinthians 13 when it's talking about, for now we see an Amir dimly. Right. We know in part then it'll be face to face and kind of that relational side that says I know for a fact that my story will end in a relationship that's face to face. Just such intimacy, such union with God. Right. Right now I see that in the mirror dimly. Kind of that reality that like any relationship, right. There is so much life that comes from the best relationships in our lives. But also there's times where we want to be served, we don't want to serve. We want to pursue selfless self selfishness and not selflessness kind of similarly even here I think the. What I was thinking about, just even as I Consider my relationship with Jesus. It's something I know that is true. but it's something that I dimly see right now. and that's times how things get disordered. Right. Because there's shiny things on the earth. Look better that look. Yeah. Like man. Whether it's success or money or just the. The image of my life. That's more captivating than my relationship with Christ. Yeah, I know. A few years ago I was writing a paper that made me think it was for a class I was taking. really take some time to think about the fact that the Trinity, Father, Son, Holy Spirit are in relationship. And it from like. And that, that is. I mean if you read in Genesis, you guys went to seminary, have all the degrees, but can speak more to this. But like you see that in the Bible and it's such a beautiful picture of the fact that we are built in innately for community, for like to commune with God and as the Trinity itself exists in community. And so, that I think is just such a picture that also makes sense of why, and that why in our relationships person to person can be so complex but so beautiful, so needed. and that we are absolutely created for community ultimately with God. And we see that in the Holy Spirit and then on in the Trinity and then also with each other. And we do need each other. So I think that's learned though, right? Because there's a lot of times when it's like, okay, I feel lonely, so what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna scroll on Instagram or I feel empty, so maybe I should go shopping. Like, I think we see the symptoms of the fact that we were created for relationship, but we don't always recognize what's actually wrong is that our relationship is off kilter somehow. You know, it's dim. You know, we're not seeing, you know, seeing things complete clear. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So the, the second point that Pastor Zach talked about was who is the main character? And I want to mention two things. So he said there's two ways that we can often get this wrong. First by just making ourselves the hero of the story. and that can take the form of like it's my career is what m. Is driving me, my relationships. I've got to get married. I've. I've got to get this relationship right over here. Different forms of success or kids or whatever it might be. So we're putting something else as the hero. Or that sometimes we disbelieve that God could actually receive us so those are kind of two different. It feels like two different sides of the spectrum of maybe pride being something that drives one and shame driving the other. But really that there's a similarity, that in both of them we're putting ourselves as the main character. So what does it take, I think to make Jesus the main character and then what changes when he is the hero of our lives? I was thinking about the story where the disciples are arguing about who's the greatest amongst them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they're kind of like, okay, who's going to be the greatest? Almost this idea of. Who's going to be the main character? That's right. The story. And I love how Jesus doesn't respond to them and say like all greatness is not something you shouldn't desire. Even what we read in Revelation. Yeah. Like there's a promise that we will reign. Just the pathway in which we get there isn't by our effort or merit or achieving, it's by becoming a servant. Right. By finding humility at the cross. Yeah. So he's even thinking, you know, in some sense the crazy part about the gospel is it almost gives you your desire for greatness, just also gives you the promise you don't have to be the one that provides it. It's actually found. It's almost like a twofold, gift that it gives. Yeah. But it makes me, it reminds me of what Mike said at the beginning of going like it is, it's so counter. We talk about this often to like us feeling like we've got to do, we've got to earn. And it's like no, you know that the second Corinthians 5, 17 through 19 passage is saying if anyone's in Christ or new creation in Christ, God was reconciling the whole world back to himself because he wanted that relationship. And it, yeah. It's laying it down and resting in that. Yeah, yeah. I mean I think to actually believe that Jesus Christ is great enough for relationship with God, period. Yeah. And has nothing to do with you and how good or not good you are is a very hard idea to actually kind of resonate deeply. you know, this was yesterday and I was taking my middle son camping. He's four. That's fun. Yeah, well, it was fun. The camping was great. I have a two year old daughter and I was packing up all the things to get ready to go with Kayson and Briella started packing up her books in her backpack because she wanted to come and I had to say to her she couldn't come. And on some level, I wonder how many of us think if we got stuff ready and we went to the coffee shop, God would say, okay, yeah, maybe not you, Right? And so I think we can miss it when we don't actually know. Jesus is enough. Right? Wherever you fall, Jesus is enough. You can go into the coffee shop, sit down, and he will be delighted to see you. And we don't have to wonder, oh, is he gonna take me or not gonna take me? And I just think on some level, it does come back to, Jesus Christ is the way to God, period. Well. And I just think the enemy plays on those insecurities. I mean, that's, you know, one of his best tricks where he's like, okay, you don't think you're good enough. You're right. You're not good enough. He's not going to be at the coffee shop. You. You could never come back from what you've done. Like, if. If you really knew what you. Who you were inside, he would never come. Yeah. I mean, you think about the story of the prodigal son, right? Like, yeah, all right, I have my speech. I'm going to the coffee shop with my speech, my resume. I'm going to lay it out there. Yep. God, you gotta. Right. I'm gonna get all six dogs taken care of here. Right. I'm not failing orientation. I'm. I'm winning the relationship with God. Yeah. And I think you, You. You don't have to win it. You don't have to win it. You don't have to win it. Right. Like, that is the beauty of Jesus. Yeah. Yeah. okay, so I keep leaning into these different analogies that Zach had, but he talked about, I'm not even getting to the coffee shop yet. We'll get there. We will. It was so good. I know he's gonna be. But in the. He had just gone to see the Odyssey, but I did love this because he made the point of just going, like, the whole way through all these horrible things are happening to the main character. but, like, how silly of us to, like, actually get worried that that main character is not going to make it, because then the whole movie wouldn't exist. Right. And. And, you know, likewise, like, Jesus is the main character. We know we have an eternity. We are destined for an eternity. That, again, we're seeing things much more clearly and have that relationship fully. and if we can just stay connected to Jesus and stay connected to him, like, and that was the analogy he used, like, stay connected to the main character and you're, you're going to be in great, great spot. So I don't know what are. When you're feeling down, maybe when you're feeling distant, when you're feeling like I've got to prove myself. Are there ways that you practically remind yourself and are able to stay connected to the truth of the gospel? There's a painting in my office of the story of the prodigal son. It's a meaningful story and I think on some level we will resonate with either the younger brother who went away or the elder brother who is kind of sitting out to the side. And in the painting the elder brother is in the shadows. Right. He's overlooking the younger son coming home. And that story has always been meaningful to me because I'm more of the elder brother. Like, will I actually come in? Yeah. And I think for me, I know when I am struggling with God is when my prayers are more about asking and less about enjoying. And the shorter my prayer life typically and the more just to the point I am, it typically shows me I'm just looking to God to either give me something or just kind of like be more of a servant and less like a son and just to be with him. And so I think prayer life for me becomes one indicator. And so the painting is helpful. among other things that I think keep that centered for me. Yeah, it's really good. Anybody else? Yeah, I was going to say, I, I think there's a. I think it's in John 5 where Jesus says that, you search the scriptures for eternal life, but you miss that it's in me. That's a great. And even in total transparency, there are times where I read my Bible because we work at a church. Right. And we search the scriptures for, to create a Bible study or we search the scriptures. Maybe if you're at home and you're in a Bible study at the church, doing your homework and you can almost in a way miss delighting in Christ by just trying to become a little smarter, a little more moral. Yeah. Have some type of smart one liner that you can reverberate in your head through scripture and miss delighting in a person. I think that's the beautiful thing about scripture being living and active. Yeah. We're not reading a dead moral document. We're reading something that has the words of life that are ultimately found in a person, in Jesus. And I think even I've been trying, I rush into Scripture I can check it off quite literally on a sheet. Going through the Bible reading plan. That's how, that's, that's just how I am wired. And even just prayerfully, before I open my Bible for 30 seconds, I'm coming to encounter the living God. Yeah, I want to delight. Lord, help me. Delight. Yeah. Because maybe right now with something's difficult and it's hard to do, that has been. I love that challenge. But to help me delight in you. Yeah. I was going to say, I think, I think that's really good because I think sometimes it can be, like we're checking it off a list, which I would still say you should still do it. Even when God's word is living and active, it still can mold and change you. Well, and there's been times when soften you. I've, you know, been in something hard and it is harder to open the Bible, for whatever reason. And then later something happens and it's like that verse is like, he's bringing it to me. He's like, okay, yeah, he's doing something. He's got that word and it's, it's diving in deep to my soul, where it's the balm that I actually need. And it reminds me, you know, who's in charge and what's actually going on. But, yeah, I love that prayer. That's good. And it kind of helps keep, like the main thing, the main thing, the goal isn't just to read your Bible or just to go to church or just go to your circle or just go to Wednesday morning Impact. Although that is great. the goal is actually to enjoy God. Yeah. And that's a different perspective, I think. Like, that's a great, like, way to frame prayer time or even going to church. Right. What is your prayer? Heading into church, heading into wherever you're going. Like, I think that is convicting and also encouraging that God is meant to be enjoyed. That's good. Well, and he is the now to the coffee shop analogy, because I thought that really is an incredible picture. And I thought immediately of the prodigal son when he was talking about it. But, yeah, I mean, I think. And you know, I wanted to ask the question just like, how would our life change if we really believed God was delighted in us and wanted to spend time with us? Like, that blows my mind. Like, it's, you know, I mean, just thinking about it in that way just blows my mind. Like, really like the God of the universe that, you know. But you see it in scripture in the passages that we just read, like, hey, God sent Jesus because he wanted to reconcile us so we could have this relationship again. I'm like, that's. It's real. This really is the truth. So I don't know. I mean, I think that I. I asked why I loved you, saying. I start by saying, like, help me, Lord, delight in you. Help me even to remember that you are delighted in this time that we get to spend together, too. Yeah. I think that's such an important thing to come to understand. It's something that I can struggle with because for sure, I can be of, like, you know, I can somehow fall back into. Not that I need to earn God's favor, but it is really easy to be like, you know what you were saying, okay, let me be in this room doing this task, and let me be here, and let me do that. Doing culture and getting it. Yeah. Where it's like, when you stop and think, and it's like, that's great, and God's gonna use your faithfulness, but really what he wants is your heart, and he just wants you. And, you know, I think of, like, you know, when you go somewhere and, you know, if you're with friends, you know, you can tell if they don't really want you around, Right? Like, if you're. And you're like, okay, they didn't really want me here. I should go home. But, like, when you're with people where you feel like, man, they want me here, like, they love me for who I am, it totally changes how comfortable you are and how vulnerable you can be. And so when you think about, like, man, God is saying, like, it's not only that, you know, I love you, but it's like, I delight in you. Yeah. That's just a different level for me. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, man. I think about when Jesus was baptized and the voice boomed from heaven. This is my beloved son in whom I'm well pleased, right? Like, yeah. And I think on some level, for me, I know that I am believing that and enjoying that. When I am more of a giver than a taker in relationships, right? Because if I'm a taker, that means, I'm lacking something. And I'm trying to, like, like a sponge, kind of squeeze something from out from somebody else, their relationship, right? Like, to earn something. But if, like, Jesus, you think about him and his life of give, give, give, give, give, it's because he knew he had love from the beginning. And I just wonder, for me, man, if that was more true of me. Yeah. And I believe that on a deeper level, I think I would be more of a giver. Yeah. In relationships that'd be one sign. Right. So maybe if you're listening and wondering, hey, how do I know? I think, well, maybe in relationships, are you more of a giver, more of a taker? That might give you an indication of how much God's love is going deeper in you. Or not. So that's really good. Yeah, really good. Well, I think this is going to be a great series again each week, I think, just reminding us in this four week series of just all that we have in Christ and our need for our relationship with him. So thanks so much for joining me guys and hope you'll tune in next week. Thanks so much. If you are joining us, for Beyond the Message, I'm so glad that you've joined us. If before you leave, make sure you go ahead and and like and subscribe so that next week you can get pinged with the next beyond the Message. And in the meantime, make sure you check out other resources we have on our app on our website so that you can grow right where you're at and we'll see you next week.