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Fascinating conversations with founders, leaders, and experts about product management, artificial intelligence (AI), user experience design, technology, and how we can create the best product experiences for users and our businesses.
Kyle (00:01.314)
All right, welcome back to another episode of Product by Design. I am Kyle, and this week we've got another awesome guest with us, Dr. Lorenzo Conti. Look, Dr. Lorenzo Conti, welcome to the show.
Lorenzo Conti (Crover) (00:14.061)
Thank you, Kyle. Delighted to be here.
Kyle (00:17.026)
We're delighted to have you. Let me do a brief introduction for you, and then you can tell us a little bit more about yourself. But Lorenzo is a founder and managing director of Krover Limited, a Scotland-based startup that has developed the world's first subterranean drone, i.e. a Krover, that we'll talk a lot more about. But with that, why don't you tell us a little bit more about yourself and your experience?
Lorenzo Conti (Crover) (00:48.049)
I had a bit of fun, unusual path to becoming an entrepreneur. It was something that wasn't really ever on my mind. I was more on the path to the scientific and academic field. I was doing a PhD in the field of ground-earth materials at the University of Edinburgh, specifically looking at non-local effects in ground-earth media. So when you have something happening at a certain point in space.
in environments like sand dunes or grain bulks, powders and so on, that affects a different point in space, mostly on the kind of mathematical modeling side of things, also using quite a lot the UK national supercomputer, which are very lucky to have here in Edinburgh.
And then just kind of out of a bit of a spell of luck, one day I had an intuition, I set up a bit of simulations and experiments at home to check that idea and that eventually led to noticing for the first time a novel effect, what we like to call the Kroger effect now that enables movement or locomotion when fully buried, so below the surface of
ground assemblies, again, like anything from sand dunes to grain silos.
Kyle (02:18.846)
Interesting. And I'm excited to talk about that because it's something that I don't think we probably think much about, but has a lot of applications and the way that you're applying it now. But before we dive into that, I'm interested in, you know, obviously you've, you have a company, you're kind of applying some of these things that you're doing, but outside of that, you know, is there anything that you like to do outside of the company that you're doing and some of the work that you're doing in the field?
Lorenzo Conti (Crover) (02:47.853)
I mean, I say there are things that I used to enjoy doing outside of what we're doing at Krover. Since starting the company, that's really been the thing that takes pretty much all my time. My girlfriend has been very understanding and supportive of all of that. I don't think many other people would have been. And you know, I'm just lucky to have enough support around to make that possible and let me kind of focus on.
our company's mission. It's been a few years now since we started. I like at some point to get back to playing football, skiing, cooking. I started picking up again a little bit recently, but especially since I'm originally from Italy, so people tend to ask me to cook Italian dishes all the time. But really, I enjoy the things that we do at Krover so much that sometimes...
is also something that I just like to do for most of my time.
Kyle (03:54.314)
Yeah, that's great. Do you have when you have time or have a chance to cook? Do you have a favorite Italian dish that you like to go to?
Lorenzo Conti (Crover) (04:04.39)
People tend to like my tiramisu, but I mean I discovered I'm slightly intolerant to lactose and eggs, and so that's probably the worst combination of ingredients in a tiramisu. But yeah, we got into like pizza making recently, so that's, you know.
somewhat easier than it might look like.
Kyle (04:36.034)
Awesome. Well, that's great. Well, I want to know a little bit more about your journey. You kind of touched on it a little bit briefly and how you started kind of down this path, the University of Edinburgh and looking at some of the movement of sand and other grains in particular. But how did you get going down this path? And then what...
eventually led you to kind of turning this into a company, into Krover specifically.
Lorenzo Conti (Crover) (05:13.069)
Yeah, so initially it wasn't really something that I had on the horizon. It just kind of happened that at the University of Edinburgh, they've got quite a strong support system for students at academics looking to turn the research into commercial companies. And, you know, coincidentally.
Before kind of disclosing the idea publicly, someone mentioned that I might want to speak to one of the university advisors that advises students. And I just ended up in this meeting where I didn't really know who I was talking to and why, but that kind of eventually led to me to establish a good relationship with one of the advisors.
one of the startup advisors at the university who over the course of several months kind of guiding me through the first steps of setting up a company. And it just became the kind of situation where it was pretty obvious that starting a company was the obvious way to go. It wasn't, you know, it was the way to potentially fulfill the potential for
you know, social, environmental benefits and commercial ones as well that the technology I could potential for. And so, you know, from that point, I just kind of committed myself to creating that and also starting off as a solo founder, you know, has been pretty tricky. I think one of the things that, or possibly the things that took the most time, especially initially was gathering enough money and people and the two things, you know, come kind of
end in end because you can't get people without the money, to then turn that basic physical effect into a product. That's really the thing that took the most time, especially since there wasn't anything out there similar to what we were doing. We had to figure it all out on our own and write the guidebook.
Lorenzo Conti (Crover) (07:31.981)
pretty much all the parts of the system, all the electronics, design all the mechanical parts of the system, the software, pretty much everything. Most of the modules that are out there are designed for other types of applications that didn't really meet our requirements. And so we had to design from scratch almost everything that is on our system. And that just...
took quite a lot of time and people, but we've gotten to the point where the basic version of the system is getting mature enough for a wider commercial deployment. We're just going through the certification process, which once complete is going to enable us to finally get the product more widely out there as well. We were talking just before this Kyle about the US as well.
That's obviously the biggest market for us and we're making the first steps from Scotland towards there and hopefully towards the second half of this year we're planning a lot of good things there and in other places as well.
Kyle (08:49.866)
That's great. And there's a couple of things I want to dive into that you've touched on. But first, let's talk a little bit about specifically what is Krover and what is it that you're doing there? Because you've kind of touched on your research and the things that kind of brought you to that. But what is it that you found and how is it that you're applying some of the things that you're researching into the company? And what is it that you've built and are doing?
Lorenzo Conti (Crover) (09:21.817)
And it's, I think there's a lot of things that converge into, you know, going from that idea to a product. Obviously, you want to communicate constantly with customers. And then in our case, you know, we're talking about grain, but there's a very wide variety of types of people and companies that store grain, you know, from your local farmer, with maybe like a small amount of grain and they keep.
for a short period of time to, you know, the centralized port operators with maybe, you know, multiple ports across the country that store very large books, some of which, you know, stay in there for long periods of time, maybe two years even, and others that move really fast, dealing even with cargo ships and things like that. So just like making sure that all these different requirements are incorporated in one.
products so that you don't have to develop, you know, a hundred different products for every little niche use that each customer might make. Has also been something that, you know, has been taking us quite a bit of time. We think we found some good ways to incorporate things in a way that can fit most of the requirements that we've been hearing about and getting feedback on. And there's probably still a lot.
more than we can work on in the future. So I think it's one of those things that as a product gets more mature, then it can satisfy a wider range of requirements and a wider range of customers. And then, you know, it's adoption also grows as a result of that.
Kyle (11:07.926)
That's really interesting. So as a product person myself, I love kind of talking about this because it's obviously one of the most important things. So you have a, basically a robotic drone that you put into grain silos that goes through, and maybe you can tell us a little bit more about some of the things that it's measuring and doing as it goes through. And then I'm fascinated by some of the feedback process that I...
you go through as you get more and more customers and more and more users who are implementing this. So I guess that's kind of multiple parts. Tell us maybe about some of the use cases that you have seen so far as you have put this drone out. What is it that it's doing initially within some of these grain silos? And then maybe what have been some of the feedback
and things that you've gotten and kind of like you mentioned, how have you been implementing some of those things in order to expand some of those use cases is in order to broaden, I guess, the spectrum of things that your drone can do into more and more, I guess, grain silos or even other areas within the agricultural market or agricultural sector.
Lorenzo Conti (Crover) (12:35.485)
Yes, so the device, it moves through bolts of grain. And, you know, whether, like you were saying, like a side or if anything, like right now, it's possibly more suited for flat storage type of situations, which are often even larger bolts that you might find a port or, you know, kind of...
drier areas typically. Funny enough, it's the most common type of storage here in Scotland, even though it's quite a wet area. And as he's moving through, he takes measurements of temperature, moisture, and we're working on adding other parameters as well. We should have one additional parameter, which we will probably announce soon in the next month. And then he measures that at multiple points so that we can build
effectively a 3D map of conditions within these large and dense pools so that people can identify problems like hot spots or wet spots early and in the end, can become a decision tool for them as well. Do I sell the grain now or how much time do I have until I've got to move it or it's going to spoil?
you know, where is the area with the best quality stuff that maybe I can use for the top-end type of kneeling products and, you know, where it's maybe the lower quality stuff that I can send for feed. Because up till now, people really like consider every single silo shed as like one uniform bulk of the same type of stuff. But in reality, you know, first of all, they don't all come in at the same time, so you've got layers.
And also, you know, things can start from an area and spread depending on the local conditions. So it ties with what people call integrated pest management, which in grain storage means keeping an accurate eye on the condition of the grain, like temperature and moisture, keeping those parameters within a safe range that prevents infestations and molds and insects from growing.
Lorenzo Conti (Crover) (14:58.425)
because obviously anything that comes from the field will have some certain amount of spores or eggs that if it's dry and cold enough, they will not grow. But if it gets hot or wet, they will start growing and then reproducing. And in turn, it starts a bit of a cycling mechanism where the more these things grow, the hotter it gets locally and the faster the rate.
of growth increases. So it's really key to kind of identify these problems early before you get to a point where they're growing really fast and there's not very much that you can do or they've affected most of your bulk. The problem is that at the moment, really the only option is either sending a person with a manual probe walking on that bulk, which is pretty dangerous as well.
pretty bad way to go. And unfortunately, it still happens. And or adding like static sensors in there, which are pretty limited because both from a practical and economic point of view, it's not feasible to have enough of those sensors to kind of capture every area.
within the book and we've come across even places that had like 100 sensors per silo that weren't spotting problems in between each sensor and we're saying okay we need something better than this and I mean that's a very large investment already that they've made. So in the end it can also be cheaper than the alternative for getting an accurate option because it's
Lorenzo Conti (Crover) (16:50.581)
as cheap as the manual probes, obviously, but it's cheaper than having under sensors and usually it's comparable to having 20 sensors in place and can give you a better picture of what's going on in there. But when you were asking about, feedback that we got and things that led to changes, there's been a lot, but I think the one that I liked the most is, and that was a bit of an unexpected one. So we started off with sensing.
But then a lot of people just out of the blue started asking us for sampling as well. So for the ability to collect a physical sample from the bulk and retrieve that, whether it's for disability purposes or because they need to show it to their buyer or their seller or to carry out further analysis in the lab. And that's something that regularly needs to be done, for instance, on cargo ships when they arrive at a port.
And that was really something that initially we didn't plan for, but it was really like customer driven, like we just kept on getting so many people asking for that, that we started the development of that and now we've got a sampling model that is getting more mature. We've been lucky enough to get support from Innova UK as well, which is a kind of you know, organization here in the UK supporting R&D that gave us just recently some follow-on.
funding to continue that development and we were getting closer to have a commercial version ready of the sampling module as well and that's really possibly becoming even more popular than the basic sensing version and that was really entirely customer driven.
Kyle (18:43.198)
That's really interesting. And I feel like really hits home to the point of so many of the things that we create, especially again, going back to that idea of as product people and as we develop new technologies and new products that so many of the things I feel like for me too, are unexpected customer driven insights where we can create these products or these technologies. But...
So often it will be those things that we didn't expect or didn't know that customers needed until we create something and it goes out there and then they're like, customers use it and they're like, wow, this is awesome. I really need this thing. And this would really change it because of this other thing that we do. And to then start to incorporate that, I mean, it just kind of speaks to why it's so important to continually get that feedback.
Lorenzo Conti (Crover) (19:40.798)
Thank you.
Kyle (19:43.026)
and understand how people are using the products so that you can continually improve it. So I think that's really great. I'm interested that this idea of a drone or a robot for grain storage and grain use in particular. So you kind of touched on the point that we...
Lorenzo Conti (Crover) (19:52.088)
that you're going to be able to do. And I think that you're going to be able to do that and I think that's very, very helpful for the people that are still in the community.
Lorenzo Conti (Crover) (20:07.405)
I think that's a good point. The next question is going to be, we can call you a very assertive and very professional person, not a special person, but a man. You have to see the people that you are controlling and you have to see the people that you're really taking those matters to the people that you're supporting and trying to silence them. So we can have an absolutely slow down and very,
Kyle (20:09.634)
have been using probes or manual sampling and manual testing for a lot of this for a while. What was the impetus for a drone or a robot or for something really different in order to do this sampling of grain and of silos? Because we have some of these robots and drones in other areas and we're starting to see that more, but this was something that...
like you mentioned was kind of a completely new thing for this area. What was kind of the driving force behind, really moving into this and a new technology and a new way of doing it that nobody had really done before?
Lorenzo Conti (Crover) (20:54.091)
I would probably start from the word drone itself, because usually people think about a drone as something that flies, and I think that's really still the main connotation of that word. So I should probably clarify that.
device or robot doesn't really fly. So it's technically not really a drone, but drone is a word that people know for a sort of robot or device that moves. And like the peculiar thing about our robot is that it moves through kind of solid ground or media. So it effectively burrows itself underground, but in a non-destructive manner. It's not like a...
a mold or something else that kind of breaks the material in front like, you know, like digging machines. And obviously that's important because you don't want to manage the grain that you're moving through. It's all about maintaining its quality. And so I think it's one of those situations where, you know, like a lot of people knew for a long time about the ideal.
situation would be, but just like the technology to make it possible to move through ground air media just didn't exist. And it's not that people didn't really try. Like, you know, if you look in the literature, there's a variety of attempts to design devices that would use kind of more classical mechanisms to move through ground air media.
and especially below the surface, either using on the latura motion, which is a bit like a snake or peristaltic motion, like a worm does. And so by in turn contracting and extending different parts of the body of the device, or even more simple terms, like kind of pushing backwards to move forward. And then...
Lorenzo Conti (Crover) (22:53.901)
The limitation with all these methods is that when you start applying, like you're trying to create some forward motion in ground-earth media, if the material around it is sort of compact and what we call like a kind of quasi-static shape, then you require like very large forces to overcome them. Like the material in there kind of really moves us.
easily as a fluid. And so it's just not practically feasible to have enough force to move through when the entire device is buried underground. So before we managed to demonstrate our first proof of concept, the fastest that anyone got was to get a little kind of crab-like
to wiggle a little bit around. Or possibly the other example is a snake-like robot by some researchers at Georgia Tech. We did some pretty good work and some interesting stuff, but the limitation there was that the robot had to be still pushed from the outside through some rods stuck on the robot to be able to move forward, and it would still only be able to move in.
of very light synthetic particles just a few centimeters from the bottom. So it wasn't really like kind of self-propelled in a sense. I think really the bit that we, you know, the barrier that we overcame is like enabling our device to move itself within these type of environments where there wasn't really an option. And I think that just...
when we're talking about enabling technologies and things like that, it's just like kind of breaking the barrier and then like the range of possibilities that you've got after the barrier is broken is quite a lot. At the same time, it comes with a lot of challenges because you've got to figure out all the other issues that come with the new technology and that no one else has ever seen before and you've got to like...
Lorenzo Conti (Crover) (25:12.573)
sort them out all on your own. But beyond green storage, I think there's a lot of other things that we can do as well, other problems that are widely known and for which there aren't really solutions. Once we have the time and resources to dedicate to them, we would love to talk.
Kyle (25:33.338)
I think that's fascinating. I'd be interested in, I guess, some of those next phases. So, you know, where do you see, I guess, first off, where do you see this going as far as the grain technology and some of the next steps as far as agriculture and other applications within this sector? And then beyond, you know, how do you see, you know, this technology and what you're developing?
expanding into other areas and other possible use cases.
Lorenzo Conti (Crover) (26:07.853)
The main focus at the moment is getting the product fully certified and ready for manufacturing so that we can get it in the hands of more people and start having more of that social and environmental impact that is really the big reason why we decided to start with the grain storage market compared to other potentially less sustainable areas where our robot could be applied to as well. But you know, like...
like the very first idea that I had before, when I discovered the physical effect was to financially apply that technology and robot for space exploration. That's something that I love to do as a kind of personal thing in the future, but I know that at the same time, from a company perspective, it's a very long-term type of project. It's not the one that would return the
the highest profits in a reasonable amount of years. And so like as a company, the focus right now, especially in the current financial climate and all the challenges in raising money without profitability at the moment is on getting to the point where the company is making a good enough amount of sales and is profitable. And then beyond that, we can think about other areas.
But at the same time, we've been designing the robot so that it can work well enough in a wide range of ground materials. Every so often we get asked by people to test it in anything from wood pellets to pebbles and minerals. And most of the things that we've tested so far, it is able to move through. And then it becomes...
a problem of what sensors need to be fitted on the robot for that specific applications, what other features does it need to have. And so the idea is to eventually, because also we can't tackle every single problem ourselves, is to eventually offer the robot as a platform for other people to develop their own bespoke implementation for.
Kyle (28:35.246)
Awesome. That sounds really interesting. And kind of like you mentioned before too, we talked about how your primary focus right now has been on Scotland and a little bit in Italy as well, but expanding into possibly the United States and other areas. Where do you see both the areas that you want to expand to and where do you see the biggest benefits of this being?
what you're developing right now for people in agriculture, for farmers, for grain storage in general. You're obviously expanding into the United States, you said, but where potentially do you see expanding after that?
Lorenzo Conti (Crover) (29:22.529)
Yeah, the commercial, the North American market from a commercial point of view is, you know, it's definitely the biggest opportunity for us. You know, coming from the UK as a company initially, you know, set up and incorporated here, it's a relatively small market compared to a lot of other places. I mean, it's the, you know, number five market in terms of grain in Europe. You know, it's even
over on the list if we look at a global scale. And so that's really why we were looking for an opportunity to, you know, to go to get closer to where the biggest market for us is. So, yes, we are in the process of incorporated US subsidiary. We should have the first, you know, full time US team based member starting in about a month's time.
So there is quite a lot of things happening at the moment to make all of that possible. And then we are lucky to have the opportunity to start some work there and work with some good partners that are making that possible. But yeah, at the same time, it is a global market. The crane storage market is also one of those situations where every country stores grain
all sort of places and we just have to kind of decide that sometimes where to focus and dedicate our resources. So you know, for this year the focus is still going to be, you know, just kind of expanding a bit our operations, both in the UK and Europe and then, you know, moving the first steps in the UK.
Kyle (31:17.842)
I know that makes sense. I'm interested in maybe what you found, some of the differences in establishing a company in the UK versus what you're finding as you kind of expand into other places like the United States. It would have been some of the challenges or maybe some of the things that you didn't expect, both as you've established a company and then as you've expanded it internationally.
Lorenzo Conti (Crover) (31:46.145)
Yeah, we're still learning about that. I mean, the whole kind of country expansion made it some very recent thing. It was a decision made at the end of November really, as we got a bit of few else investment and some other kind of commitment there to make it possible. So yeah, we're still going through the process. One thing I'm noticing is that
There's a lot of things that in the end are done in a very similar way, but just, you know what it is like with like kind of US English and like British English. It's, you know, people like to use different words. And when it comes to like running companies and all the admin of it, it's like a lot of the processes are very, very similar. Just.
people use entirely different words to mean the exact same thing. And sometimes the exact same word means something entirely different. And I think that that's, that's possibly one of the main confusions we're dealing with now. But, you know, it's, it's very interesting. I have to say, I'm, you know, that's one of the things that I'm enjoying the most going through the process, just learning about it. And yeah, discovering all the new stuff. It's like, you know, when you've got a new toy and you're like, oh, there's all these other...
cool things that you can do with it. Yeah, it's just very interesting to learn how it works and see the different perspectives.
Kyle (33:21.458)
Interesting. Have you had the chance to get feedback from anybody in the United States? Is that something that people have started using it in the US? And are there differences in product usage and grain storage in the US versus in the UK? Or is it similar in how people operate and there's not too many differences? I'm kind of curious.
from a product and technology perspective, like are there significant differences from country and location, or have you found it to be pretty similar so far?
Lorenzo Conti (Crover) (34:02.229)
Yeah, some very substantial differences. So I think maybe one limitation that we had is the fact that we We had been lucky to have a lot of interactions like across Europe and so we We kind of know by now how Different storage operators in you know, very different countries across Europe tend to do things but then our interactions were like kind of the
the US market had been very limited. And, you know, because of the geographic distance, we hadn't been able until some months ago to really kind of spend some time on the ground and respond to some of the inbound inquiries that we were getting there. But we, you know, through an organization called Grow New York, we had the opportunity to...
spend a decent amount of time in there between October and November last year, which enabled us to connect with some of the ecosystems there, like do a bit of basic tests and investigations, and that led to some new opportunities that now we're following up on, and also where we're just kind of following up on some of the interests that we'd received over time and that we just...
couldn't really do something about where we were getting people wanting to use the robot, wanting to buy X number of them and we were just like, well, sorry, we are in Edinburgh, we don't have enough units, we can't send one over to you. So now it's just about making that possible and taking those relationships forward.
Kyle (35:54.178)
That's interesting. I'm curious, how have you been finding and maybe filtering some of these very early adopting customers? Because it sounds like you have a number of early adopting customers and interest and those types of users who potentially are willing to use what could be the early versions of your product as you continue to develop and add a lot of these features
that they're interested in, because at least I found, and I'd be interested in your insight here, that these, as I've created very early versions of products, they're not necessarily fully fledged with all of the features that we want. And there are lots of customers who are very much okay with that and want the features that are available and then are willing to help us add
features as we go along and give feedback and continue to make it better. And then there are the other customers who want the more, I guess, fully feature complete type products. And I guess, how have you been approaching that? And it sounds like there are lots and lots of users and customers who are ready for something that's much better than they have currently. How have you been seeing that? What has been your approach? And
Lorenzo Conti (Crover) (37:13.293)
How do you evaluate the work that you do? How does your work get better? Yeah, 100%. I think one nice aspect of getting a lot of interest from early on is that then you can then be selective in terms of who is the best.
Kyle (37:20.346)
How have you been differentiating between some of these different types of customers?
Lorenzo Conti (Crover) (37:41.145)
customer to work with initially. And so at that point, you know, if you're in that situation is a really nice position because then you can say, okay, I'll, you know, we'll work only with those guys who, you know, like you said, are happy with those limited features, are, you know, are able to provide full feedback and support, you know, potentially help out through the journey as well.
And so you almost kind of end up making a priority list of, who are we working with first and who's gonna come after that. And it's not because you don't want to work with everyone that comes along, but it's just because initially you don't have the resources to work with all of them. So you gotta be a bit selective. Obviously it gets a bit trickier.
if you don't have that option. I mean, in our case, we were lucky enough to have the situation. So we've been working primarily with a few selected partners who were, you know, through interactions. And I mean, you get to learn, to get to know people over time, but it became clear that they were that kind of ideal early adopter, like you said. And I mean, in terms of that, you know, we're still talking mostly about...
the ones in the UK and Italy that we've been working with the most. I think in terms of the US, we're still kind of building a bit of our base in there. And like we said before, there are still some modifications that we need to make to the system to make it fit better. The way grain storage is done. It's done, obviously, as you mentioned, silos are way more...
in the US than they are in Scotland. So that's probably a main one, you know, making sure that people don't have to, you know, open and close the silo continuously, put the robot in and out. That's obviously a very big one, but also there's, you know, fine little details, you know, talking bushels instead of thorns, you know, like a lot of little things that...
Lorenzo Conti (Crover) (39:58.825)
some of which are fairly small, but then when you start building your list, it's all things that take a bit of time to fix before it fully meets the way people are dealing with their grain storage operations.
Kyle (40:15.838)
Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. And I think that's really interesting. I'm interested too in what you've found, not just from the product and technology standpoint, but as you've been building a business, from the start and as you kind of decided to take this journey, what have been some of the things that you've found to...
maybe be the most unexpected, the most challenging, the most exciting, because you kind of mentioned that this wasn't necessarily the path that you set out on, but it is definitely the one that you chose and are going down now. What have been some of the things that you have either enjoyed the most or found the most surprising about starting a company and starting Krover and kind of walking down this path of a new company?
Lorenzo Conti (Crover) (41:11.417)
So if I have to be honest, the moment I had discovered a physical effect and realized the potential that it could have and decided to start a startup, I thought the art part was done. And I think that's probably a mistake that is very common on that stage, right? Because you're like, OK, we've got some cool technology. The way the media and Hollywood and everything portrays.
the startup journey, the company, uh, ending journey, it just looks like someone goes from that moment to, you know, right being to the point that they've got more money that they can, that they know what to do. Right. And it's just like everything in between. There's a, there's actually like so much that you can't even realize. Um, and so, you know, like understand much more like now why
uh, like, you know, why people value, um, others that have built a business before and been successful with it, because, you know, it's the kind of thing that after you've done it once, like, you know, you know what you need to do with this much less of that all kind of learning process, failing that takes, you know, that takes time and resources. Right. Um, so it's something that, you know,
As a first-time founder, I had to go through, you know, like make mistakes along the way. And, you know, we've been getting better at it. I mean, now we were making much less mistakes, but then like there's new things that we never came across all the time. And we just have to be kind of flexible to, you know, to learn new things constantly and, you know, try to assess every possible scenario.
I mean, that's something that I constantly think about is, what are all the possible things that could happen? And what are all the precautions that we can take to reduce risk in a way? Because building a company is already a risky business enough, but in the end, I think my job as the head of the company is to really constantly find ways and put together plans that...
Lorenzo Conti (Crover) (43:36.405)
we reduce that risk to a minimum, not eliminated entirely, because that's not really possible. And so, yeah, just, you know, I usually like, tell people that like the, probably like the main thing they wanna make sure before starting a company is that is like they are 100% sure it is the kind of thing that they will be committed.
to for at the very least five to 10 years, usually, you know, like, I mean, a lot of times more as well. And that they, you know, they're not gonna give up along the way because like, you know, problems are gonna arise. And it's just that resilience of, you know, fixing problems, finding solutions in like the trickiest of moments and not, you know, getting dessert and it's then kind of the...
what leads to success. I think, you know, with senior in Edinburgh, like a lot of companies going through like a very positive initial stage, but then a lot of times it's just like founders, they lose that energy, like maybe, you know, like a couple of years in, and they just go off and do something else, because they're not kind of millionaires enough, and that's just.
something that if people knew initially, it could maybe prevent them a bit of wasted time.
Kyle (45:12.254)
Yeah, no, I think that's spot on and that's great. It's great insight and great advice because I think that it is, like you said, it's not like it's portrayed as in the idea is the hard part. And then having the advice of it is, you have to just know that you're gonna be in it for a long time in order to do it and get started. I think that's just, that's really, really good.
Well, Lorenzo, this has been a really, really fun and fascinating conversation. Is there anything that we didn't get a chance to talk about that you wanted to mention?
Lorenzo Conti (Crover) (45:54.949)
And probably just mentioning briefly, you know, we, we made a lot of choices through the journey. I think one of those was kind of the domain they were using for our website, like a tech domain, almost became a part of our brand. And it got to the point where a lot of people just think that it's part of our company name. And it is kind of beneficial in that sense, because as a, as a deep tech company.
Just you know really our technologies our core is what differentiates us from the rest of the market And so it's been really helpful in that sense
Kyle (46:35.746)
That's great. And I do have a couple of wrap up questions that I wanna ask just as we get things finished up. But before we do that, where can people find more about you, about Krover, about the things that we talked about?
Lorenzo Conti (Crover) (46:50.905)
So our website is Krover.Tech. They can reach out to us at info at Krover.Tech via email. And yeah, we were always happy to hear from, new people, whatever their interests may be.
Kyle (47:09.946)
Okay, awesome. And we'll put those links in the show notes as well, so you can check that out. Well, we'd like to just wrap up with a couple of less business related questions, but they can be business or tech related if you'd like. But is there anything that you have been reading, watching or listening to lately that you found interesting or would like to share?
Lorenzo Conti (Crover) (47:34.765)
Cool. Like product related or just in general?
Kyle (47:41.551)
It doesn't have to be product or business or tech related. It can be absolutely anything.
Lorenzo Conti (Crover) (47:47.513)
You know what, I've been struggling lately to find a good movie. So if you've got any recommendations, I'd be very happy to know. But yeah, nothing comes to mind right now. But yeah, it's just because I've been really busy with like reading like mostly business material, like, you know, technical guides and say like US incorporation and things like that. There's a really good guide on medium out there.
Kyle (47:51.732)
Yeah
Lorenzo Conti (Crover) (48:17.513)
I can't remember the name of the author, but for UK companies looking to establish some operations in the US and also on raising money in the US, which is really helpful for us. So I really recommend searching for that.
Kyle (48:37.202)
Okay. Yeah. We'll maybe take a look and get that in the show notes. For anybody who is in the UK and looking to establish in the US, maybe not the most exciting read, but I'm sure it's a really helpful one. So that will be good. And then if there's any products that you're using that you have found particularly useful or good. It can be a physical product or a digital product.
Lorenzo Conti (Crover) (49:06.365)
Yeah, there's quite a lot of things. I mean, something that we struggled with a lot initially was like, kind of getting our electronics design into like a very mature stage. So I kind of resisted for quite some time, you know, getting kind of some expensive PCB design and electronics design software in place. But I have to say like, since we got our team to use Altium.
It's been really helpful. So it's probably like, it's by far the most expensive license that we're paying for, but it seems to be.
Kyle (49:44.674)
Nice, great. All right, well, Lorenzo, again, this has been a great conversation. Appreciate all of your insight. And it's been fascinating to learn more about Krover, about some of the technology within the grain and agricultural industry, which isn't something that I have thought a lot about previously, but has been absolutely fascinating for me because I think it's a, one, it's something that is always behind the scenes for us, but is...
I think relevant to all of us. So really again, appreciate all of your insights and I'm excited to see where your company goes and hopefully here in the US in the not too distant future.
Lorenzo Conti (Crover) (50:26.297)
Thank you, Farah.
Kyle (50:28.906)
All right. And thank you everyone for listening.