Why Distance Learning?

About Our Guests
Dr. Brandon Ferderer is Head of Programming at Shared Studios and honors faculty at Arizona State University. A writer, performer, storyteller, and expert facilitator, Brandon holds a doctorate in intercultural communications from Arizona State University. His work spans private, education, and nonprofit sectors, harnessing communication technology to bridge cultural divides through dynamic educational and arts programs. His academic and creative works have been featured in Critical Studies in Media Communication and The Seventh Wave, and he has performed at the Scottsdale Museum of Contemporary Art, Phoenix Art Museum, the Moth Main Stage, and the Dixon Theater in New York City.
Ross Phillips is a social studies teacher at Winnacunnet High School in Hampton, New Hampshire. Holding a master's degree in education from the University of New Hampshire, Ross is passionate about bringing the world into his classroom through live virtual connections. An avid world traveler who has explored Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Egypt, Italy, Iceland, and beyond, Ross uses real-world application to ignite students' curiosity for non-Western history, law, and geography.

What Is Shared Studios?
Shared Studios is best known for its immersive portals — repurposed shipping containers equipped with audiovisual technology that place users in a full-body, face-to-face conversation with someone in a similar container in one of 20–25 countries around the world. But at its core, Shared Studios is a network of people: trained facilitators and community members around the globe — from community activists to UN officials — brought together to create meaningful educational connections. Programming can be delivered through the immersive portal environment or via video conferencing.

Key Topics Discussed

Why immersive portals go beyond video conferencing Brandon explains that 65–75% of a message's meaning is communicated nonverbally. While video conferencing restored face-to-face visibility, it also introduced "Zoom fatigue" — the tendency to monitor how we appear to be connecting rather than actually connecting. The portal creates full-body presence and a sense of accountability to your conversational partner, which is essential for building genuine empathy.

The origin story of Shared Studios Founder Amar Bakshi originally built the portal concept to help his grandmother feel connected to her native Pakistan — imagining her sharing a chai in a café. The first portals debuted at a New York art gallery and in Tehran, Iran, where the profound emotional responses (women dancing freely behind closed doors, a young man coming out) revealed the technology's transformative potential.

How Ross uses the portal at Winnacunnet High School Ross has built years of relationships with curators in Mexico City, Kigali, and other sites. Students recognize facilitators by name, ask about their lives, and engage in deeply personal conversations — including discussions about the Rwandan genocide with survivors and their families, a topic directly tied to New Hampshire's state curriculum standards.

The role of the facilitator On-site facilitators like Ross help students acclimate to the unique, distraction-free environment of the portal. The shared studios curators on the other end are trained to handle sensitive or culturally awkward moments as teachable opportunities rather than offenses — creating a space where students can "trip up" and grow.

Reaching reluctant learners Rather than leading with heavy topics, Brandon and Ross recommend starting with common ground — video games, food, music, daily life. A memorable example: skeptical Arizona State students connected with young men in Herat, Afghanistan over football and video games, and ended up in a 45-minute conversation about U.S.-Afghan relations.

Preparing students for cross-cultural conversations Shared Studios uses "shared understandings" drawn from the Mejlis style of dialogue — an approach rooted in Arab cultures emphasizing equity in speaking time, active listening, and respectful engagement. Brandon also discusses the importance of teaching students the difference between cultural relativism and universalism before entering conversations.

Why distance learning matters Both guests emphasize that the problems facing the next generation — climate change, refugee crises, global poverty, genocide — are deeply interconnected and cannot be solved by any one nation or culture. Distance learning, especially in immersive forms, is how we build the global citizens equipped to meet those challenges together.

Quotable Moments
"Video conferencing has been really great for connecting us. It has not been so good at creating connection between us." — Dr. Brandon Ferderer
"I've never walked away from a connection being like, 'Well, that didn't go well.' There's always a nugget." — Ross Phillips
"We have to find ways to put young people into conversation with people who are different than them... distance learning is the way that we do that." — Dr. Brandon Ferderer

Resources & Links

Host links:
  1. Discover more virtual learning opportunities at CILC.org with hosts Tami Moehring and Allyson Mitchell.
  2. Seth Fleischauer’s Banyan Global Learning combines live virtual field trips with international student collaborations for a unique K12 global learning experience. See https://banyangloballearning.com/global-learning-live/
Enjoyed this episode? Tell a friend, follow the podcast, and leave us a review! Editing by Lucas Salazar.

Creators and Guests

Host
Allyson Mitchell
SF
Host
Seth Fleischauer
TM
Host
Tami Moehring

What is Why Distance Learning??

Why Distance Learning? is a podcast about the decisions, design choices, and assumptions that determine whether live virtual learning becomes shallow and transactional—or meaningful, relational, and effective at scale.

The show is designed for education leaders, instructional designers, and system-level practitioners responsible for adopting, scaling, and sustaining virtual, hybrid, and online learning models. Each episode examines the structural conditions under which distance learning actually works—and the predictable reasons it fails when it doesn’t.

Through conversations with researchers, experienced practitioners, and field-shaping leaders, Why Distance Learning? translates research, field evidence, and lived experience into decision-relevant insight. Episodes surface real tradeoffs, near-failures, and hard-won lessons, equipping listeners with clear framing and language they can use to explain, defend, or redesign distance learning models in real organizational contexts.

Hosted by Seth Fleischauer of Banyan Global Learning, and Allyson Mitchell and Tami Moehring of the Center for Interactive Learning and Collaboration, the podcast challenges outdated narratives about distance learning and explores what becomes possible when live virtual education is designed intentionally, human-centered, and grounded in evidence.

Seth Fleischauer (00:00.803)
Hello everyone and welcome to Why Distance Learning, the podcast for educators who are engaged with live virtual learning experiences, whether they be content providers who produce and facilitate or educators who want to complement their curriculum and learn more about the medium. We interview content providers, industry professionals, field experts. You know, I said amount, didn't I? I didn't say about. I said amount. I'm going to start over. One second.

Allyson (00:22.075)
I'm sorry.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (00:24.99)
Thank you.

Seth Fleischauer (00:26.787)
Hello everyone and welcome to Why Distance Learning, the podcast for educators who are engaged with live virtual learning experiences, whether they be content providers who produce...

Allyson (00:38.651)
I know, see I put it in your mind, I'm sorry.

Seth Fleischauer (00:40.803)
You're ruining me. All right. Hello everyone and welcome to Why Distance Learning, the podcast for educators who are engaged with live virtual learning experiences, whether they be content providers who produce and facilitate or educators who want to complement their curriculum and learn more about the medium. We interview content providers, industry professionals, field experts and educators who love and use live virtual learning. And this week we have Brandon Ferderer, who's the head of

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (00:42.014)
Thank you.

Seth Fleischauer (01:10.339)
programming at Shared Studios along with Ross Phillips who is a social studies teacher at Winnacanet High School in Hampton, New Hampshire. Welcome Brandon and Ross.

Allyson (01:21.915)
Yay!

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (01:22.238)
Thank you.

Ross Phillips (01:23.345)
Thanks for having us.

Seth Fleischauer (01:25.027)
Uh, we are super excited to hear about shared studios and the way that you've used it at your school, Ross, but let's have Alison introduce you first.

Allyson (01:34.043)
Yay, I'm so excited to be here chatting with you and having this conversation. So a little bit about Ross. He is a social studies teacher in New Hampshire and is passionate about bringing the world into his classroom. He holds a master's degree in education from the University of New Hampshire and focuses on igniting students' curiosity for non -Western history, law, and geography.

Ross believes in the power of real world application and uses his extensive travel experience to enrich his lessons. A world traveler himself, he has explored the rich cultures of Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Egypt, Italy, Iceland, and many more. Through his engaging classes, Ross helps students develop critical thinking skills and fosters a global perspective that prepares them to be informed and engaged citizens. Yay, welcome, Ross!

Ross Phillips (02:29.489)
Thanks so much for having me. It's great to be here.

Allyson (02:33.947)
I'm super excited to hear more about how you are using Shared Studios portals, but I guess if it's okay with everybody, I'll jump in and also introduce Brandon who's here. So, Brandon, as mentioned, is head of programming at Shared Studios and honors faculty at Arizona State University. He is a writer, performer, storyteller.

educator and expert facilitator with a doctorate in intercultural communications from Arizona, excuse me, Arizona State University. He has a range of experiences across the private education and not for private sectors where he has worked to harness new communication technologies to bridge cultural divides through dynamic educational arts programs. He was a featured speaker.

across the world and has academic and creative works that have been featured in publications such as Critical Studies in Media Communication and The Seventh Wave. He has performed works in the Scottsdale Museum of Contemporary Art, Phoenix Art Museum, the Moth Main Stage, and the Dixon Theater in New York City. Yay, welcome Brandon!

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (03:46.334)
Thank you, thank you so much for having me. Listening to all of that stuff about myself sounds like I've done so much and I look around and go, have I really done those things? Yes, I guess I have.

Seth Fleischauer (03:49.187)
I really...

Allyson (03:55.931)
Oh my -

Yes, when I was reading all the words, I'm like, yeah, both of what you're saying and bringing to people across the world just makes me super, super excited to learn from both of you.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (04:09.374)
Thank you.

Seth Fleischauer (04:09.635)
I just want to know real quickly what story you told on the moth.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (04:15.262)
I told a story about a car ride from Boise, Idaho to Elko, Nevada, which is where I'm from, where myself and a friend hit a deer. But the story was really more about gender and addiction and a number of kind of underlying things. But yeah, it's a funny and frightening story about hitting a deer and then being followed by the police.

all the way back to Nevada for another like hour and a half while we may or may not have had narcotics in the car. And so it was one of those coming of age moments and a pivotal moment in my life that blessed that deer. That deer gave its life so that I could retrieve mine. So yeah.

Ross Phillips (04:48.977)
Hahaha.

Allyson (04:58.747)
Yeah.

Ross Phillips (04:59.249)
I'm going to go to bed.

Ross Phillips (05:04.465)
You

Seth Fleischauer (05:05.859)
Wow. Is that available like on the Moth podcast?

Allyson (05:06.203)
Nice.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (05:10.654)
I don't think so. It was in a main stage event in Phoenix. I don't think it was recorded. So I think the story may exist somewhere from, I performed in an event called Bar Flies, which is part of the New Times in Phoenix, a monthly storytelling event. I think I may have performed that there. So then there was the Lit Lounge. I think I've performed it in a few plays. So it probably exists somewhere.

Seth Fleischauer (05:17.571)
All right.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (05:37.47)
I should probably know that since once something's on the internet, it's always there. But I don't know. I don't know if it is or not.

Seth Fleischauer (05:37.539)
Hehehe

Allyson (05:44.891)
If it is, let us know. I would love if you're comfortable to share the link. It would be great. Storytelling, yes.

Seth Fleischauer (05:45.123)
Googling deer.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (05:50.654)
Yeah, I can do that. It might be good for me to actually know that. So I'll do some investigating after this.

Allyson (05:54.843)
Yeah.

Allyson (05:59.067)
It is, give yourself a search online. You can find so many wonderful things.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (06:04.414)
Yeah, including an article. Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. I got interviewed one time and the title of the article is, Brandon Furter wants you to wear clothes that fit you and throw your flip flops in the garbage. Which is something I said in the interview. It was about fashion, but I didn't realize that that's what it was.

Seth Fleischauer (06:05.507)
Okay, so, is that, wait, including what?

Ross Phillips (06:08.049)
Hahaha.

Allyson (06:22.267)
Yeah.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (06:29.95)
So now when you Google me, that's like one of the first things that comes up is I would like you to throw your flip flops away, which I still stand by, but. Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Allyson (06:33.243)
Oh my -

Allyson (06:36.955)
Oh my goodness, I love a direct title. Like this is what you're getting right here. Like no questions.

Ross Phillips (06:40.561)
I'm gonna go.

Seth Fleischauer (06:45.219)
Well, when you Google me, you can find that I'm a meme as the sad Mets fan. That's a weird kind of fame that you have to tell people about. But let's talk about education. So can you just start off quickly? Just tell us what is Shared Studios for those people who don't know it.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (06:53.054)
Ha ha ha.

Yeah, yeah, let's do that.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (07:06.718)
Yeah, so I mean, I think Shared Studios is probably most known for our immersive portals, which are repurposed shipping containers equipped with audio visual technology. When you step inside, you're in a full body face -to -face conversation with someone in a similar container in one of 20 to 25 countries around the world. I would say that we're a bit more than that. We're more than the portal. I would say that we're actually a network of people. There are trained facilitators on the ground in each of these communities who work directly.

with their communities to source all sorts of incredible human beings to come and interact with students and with educators. And that might be from a community activist all the way to a political leader, folks working at the UN, to somebody who's using the internet to create action in their communities. So the portal is one way in which we deliver that network of people to the world.

But I would say we're first and foremost a programming company that creates education -based programming that can be engaged through the immersive environment of the portal or through video conferencing as well.

Seth Fleischauer (08:17.219)
So we have one of those people in your network here with us today and we do want to hear from him. You mentioned a question at the top of when we were just chatting before that I'd love you to answer first, which is how is this different from video conferencing? You posed that question yourself, but I'd love to hear your answer to that question.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (08:38.206)
I'm sorry, you cut out for me in the middle of that question.

Seth Fleischauer (08:43.203)
No problem. I just said, you said at the top, how is this different from video conferencing? And I'd love to hear your answer to your own question.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (08:52.862)
Yeah. So my background is in communication, intercultural being part of that, but in general communication, about 65 to 75 % of any messages meaning is communicated non -verbally. And so when we lose those non -verbal cues, I think all of us have been in sort of text -based internet fights or even text -based fights with our partners.

Allyson (09:18.171)
You

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (09:21.566)
because those nonverbal cues are so important to understanding what folks are actually trying to communicate. That gets, you know, solved a bit when we pull ourselves into a video conferencing environment because we can now see folks face to face. But the reality is, is we spend a great deal of our time in video conferencing environments, self monitoring. It's really why folks have what they call Zoom fatigue. We spend less time actually interacting and connecting with people than we do.

monitoring whether or not we look like we're connecting with people. Um, and we're, and we're not getting all of the nonverbals that we might get. Now, probably the most important part of our body for nonverbal expression is the face. Um, and it's the one that is universal across all cultures. Uh, but the reality is, is that we're missing all sorts of other nonverbal cues in a video conferencing and, uh, environment. I always say that I think video conferencing has been really great for.

Allyson (09:51.419)
You

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (10:17.694)
connecting us, it has not been so good at creating connection between us. And so it is finding ways in which we can provide a full body immersive experience that allows people to feel like they are sitting across from one another. It creates a certain amount of accountability.

Seth Fleischauer (10:23.075)
Hmm.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (10:38.238)
to your conversational partner. I think that's a huge one. And we really need that accountability and that connection if we're going to build empathy. And empathy is really the building block for being a global citizen and for being able to solve some of the, what I would call wicked problems facing the globe today. So I think that I don't want to fully dismiss video conferencing. I think it's been wonderful. And I think it's created so many opportunities for students.

and educators to engage. But I think it's just one tool in the toolbox. And if we really want to create empathy and connection, we need to either create a face -to -face environment or an environment that mimics it in such a way that it creates that accountability and that level of connection.

Seth Fleischauer (11:23.491)
Yeah, it's interesting because we talk a lot about utilizing this technology to create connections between people. It's one of the great advantages that you're creating connections with people that you wouldn't otherwise have the opportunity to do so with. We talk a lot about it being a tool and therefore needing to be skilled at using the tool in order to create those connections. I love the idea of not having your self view. That's something that I practice with Zoom because I like everyone, I find myself

Allyson (11:23.803)
Yes!

Seth Fleischauer (11:53.539)
Uh, you know, my eyes drifting onto, onto that square. Uh, and, um, and I also, you know, I completely noticed when other people are doing it too, right? Cause they like sort of look at you when you're talking and then they look at themselves when they're talking. Uh, and it's, and it's like kind of obvious, right? Um, but, uh, I, so, so I like the, the minimizing of the self, you're not having that available in, in the portal as, as being a huge part of it. The full body language is also really nice. Like I just, I actually just.

Allyson (11:55.675)
Hahaha!

Ross Phillips (11:57.553)
Hehehehe.

Ross Phillips (12:08.081)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (12:08.126)
Hahaha!

Seth Fleischauer (12:23.043)
made a motion with my hands that you could not see. Here, I'll put it up here. It was like this. It was like full body, you know, I was like using my hands to express the gravity of the full body and you didn't you didn't get that right because you've got this little you've got my bust right now. And that's it. But but I love so I love the idea of those like thoughtful adjustments. And that the purpose of this is to make connections between people and I'd love to toss it to Ross. How have you used?

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (12:27.934)
fifth

Seth Fleischauer (12:51.267)
this tool to make connections between the students at your school and people throughout the world.

Ross Phillips (12:57.777)
Yeah, it's been remarkable because like Brandon said, it's a video conferencing tool, but the power is the connection. So when we connect to some of the sites, I've got, you know, seven, eight years of records connecting with Mexico City and some of the staff who I started the program, you know, working with are still there. And so when we jump in, there's, you know, eight years of history. And even now students have that same experience where.

they're able to be like, recognize the curators by name, recognize them by their demeanor and be like, how's your pet? Did you get a new tattoo? You know, what have you been doing lately? Did your water get turned back on? And they're able to address these issues that are one, incredibly personal to the people on both ends. But two, when we reference them outside of like the specific class that was in there, you know, kids are like, oh, I remember talking to the team in Kigali or the team in Mexico city or the team in Iraq. And it

It creates this different element. And the other thing that's great is, you know, the same way a teacher in the classroom will kind of walk around the room and make sure kids are engaged and pull the kids in. You can see that, like when a guest is in the back row, whether it's a student or whether who's there, if they're like slouched back and they're not there, it's obvious. And this team does a great job of getting those kids involved. You know, they're not.

doing it embarrassingly or hostilly or anything like that, but it's, you know, are you feeling okay? Like the personal connection is coming through with every site that we work with.

Seth Fleischauer (14:36.803)
And so you're painting a picture here where there's, it seems like there's a facilitator on each end, right? Are you the facilitator for your location?

Ross Phillips (14:45.457)
Yeah, I am. I initially I just was kind of the go between. And then a couple of years ago, I started, you know, being able and working directly with the team and at Shared Studios to set up the connections and organize everything on our end.

Seth Fleischauer (14:59.587)
And so what do you see is the main characteristics of your role? What do you bring as the facilitator to this experience?

Ross Phillips (15:09.617)
Um, I, at the beginning, the space, um, for some people is kind of daunting, you know, like Brendan said, the walls are blacked out and it forces an attention that for a lot of students, um, is challenging. Um, the idea that there's, you know, if you go into a classroom, there's posters on the wall, there's flags, there's art, there's ways teachers personalize it. Um, and in the portal, there's the people.

Um, and so one of the things that's really big at the beginning is getting kids kind of accustomed to this space. But, um, as a teacher who's used it a lot, both with my classes and other, um, settings here, once we get past that, like I have the easiest job in the world because the curators on the other end ask questions that the kids get invested and they just end up going in these conversations and hitting topics that you would never dream of.

Allyson (15:54.363)
Hehehe

Ross Phillips (16:06.673)
but all provide something incredibly valuable.

Seth Fleischauer (16:10.435)
How many students are in the portal with you and is the is the screen is it is it on the short end of the shipping container is it on the long end like what is it what does it look like?

Ross Phillips (16:21.489)
So it's on the short end and it's, we have, we have, we have an inflatable. So we put this big gold broom in the library and blow it up and have the screen in it to mimic what the other sides have in a shipping container. So we can fit six or so high school students in there at a time.

Seth Fleischauer (16:44.643)
Got it. And so part of your role as a facilitator, you're talking about like the kid in the back or whatever. Those six people, that's, I mean, that's a, that's a big conversation, right? That's like a round table kind of conversation. So do you find yourself as facilitator, you're really needing to kind of help them help navigate like who's turn it is to speak and stuff like that, or does it eventually become more organic?

Ross Phillips (16:49.681)
Mm -hmm.

Ross Phillips (16:57.681)
Mm -hmm.

Ross Phillips (17:09.265)
It eventually becomes very organic. And, you know, I, when we brought it to some other sites that I've helped out with too, for a high school group, six is a really good number. Because you can have a couple of kids kind of take the lead and be the liaison between the, you know, somebody who's a little quieter or ask some of the tougher questions that, you know, once you get accustomed to who's there and who's talking, you know, then you can really broach some of these very.

Allyson (17:18.746)
Mm -hmm.

Ross Phillips (17:38.993)
personal and very difficult conversations that you hope happen.

Seth Fleischauer (17:43.683)
What are some of the toughest questions you've heard kids ask?

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (17:46.462)
Hey.

Ross Phillips (17:48.113)
We've done a lot of connections over the years with Kigali. So in New Hampshire, one of the state standards is that we have to discuss and teach the students issues surrounding genocide. And we tackle that here in our freshman non -Western history class. All the students here learn about Rwanda and the Rwandan genocide. And so talking to people who their parents lived through it, or in some cases, they lived through it.

Um, and you know, making sure, you know, some uncomfortable moments have popped up, but, um, you know, the kids have always come out with a really, really good understanding, especially of how do you move on from an event like that? Um, and to put 14, 15, 16 year olds in a conversation with somebody who survived something as traumatic and life altering as that, um, gives them such a unique opportunity and perspective of understanding.

Allyson (18:48.379)
Yeah, it's such a powerful opportunity for learning and I appreciate you sharing that specific example and a little bit more about the setup. It's really, like you said, for the students, it's a really exciting experience for them to connect and learn in that firsthand way and to have you as a support. I also think when you said earlier about the idea that you're really about connection, you're a network of people.

In your stories, you're really talking about that network within that insular way within your school, as well as with you and the curator. So all, excuse me, and the shared studio team. So all of that support, thinking of that from a student's perspective, that must just allow them to break down so many different walls. And when I learned about shared studios, I feel like I've always been really into tech. So.

Brandon, to your point, I was always like, this is the future beyond. This is beyond the video conference. Like, what's after this? This is the building block. This is how we can bring so many different opportunities and tools together to create and change a different way of thinking about education or thinking about connection, like you said. So to hear just that perspective from you, Ross, of the students and just how it works in that logistical way, as well as that impactful way for the students is just such.

gives such a whole bigger picture for me. But I do wonder if we can talk a little bit because I feel like that idea of connection and what you just explained with your students really does kind of go back to the origin and the reason Shared Studios was created. So I wonder if we could talk a little bit or hear a little bit about the story or journey of Shared Studios from starting as I believe it was in a project in art, an art experience that turned into more of a technology.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (20:35.55)
Yeah, and I actually think it's a good moment for that question because I think that it kind of, that journey kind of pulls in what's at the heart of creating this connection, which is yes, the immersive experience that allows for the type of embodied learning that Ross is talking about, but it's also about the network of people and how we've come to engage that network of people.

Allyson (20:37.051)
And then business.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (21:03.518)
in education. So you're right, it started as an art project. Excuse me, the founder, Amar Bakshi, was really interested in how he might be able to connect his grandmother to her native Pakistan. He had been a reporter and had spent a lot of time reporting from far away places. And he found that the conversations that he remembered the most or that were most valuable to him were not the ones he was having during interviews.

Seth Fleischauer (21:17.891)
Hmm.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (21:32.638)
but rather were the ones he was having with random people on a bus or sitting in a cafe. And he wanted to bring that experience to his grandmother that she could share a chai with someone in a cafe in Pakistan and feel like she was at home. So he started building this in his backyard, which didn't go over very well in the DC suburbs. And at one point the FBI was called. Why is this person got a shipping container in his backyard? What is he building back there?

Seth Fleischauer (21:52.323)
Eh.

Yeah.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (21:59.55)
But the very first portals were at an art gallery here in New York and one in Tehran, in Iran. And I think that everybody knew that, you know, following the contact hypothesis, just actually engaging with someone that you might otherwise never get a chance to meet is a meaningful experience. But I don't think everyone realized just how meaningful it was going to be. And I think this is where that accountability to and connection that's created in that full body environment becomes important.

is women on the Iranian side came in and because the door was closed, they danced, something they're not allowed to do. A young man, excuse me, a young man in Iran came in and actually came out of the closet as gay to the folks in New York. And so there were all of these little moments that happened and it was kind of like an aha moment for Ammar where he was, you know, something interesting is happening here. I'm really happy to be here with Ross because Ross and another one of our partners, Steve Kenosie,

Seth Fleischauer (22:40.675)
Oh my god.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (22:57.726)
really started utilizing the portal in education. And when I finished my dissertation, I was brought on to really continue that. I came in permanently right as the pandemic hit. And that, of course, people don't want to be in the intimate space of the portal with five other people, you know, during the pandemic. And so we had to pivot and we pivoted and this is why I will never completely discredit video conferencing. We pivoted just like the rest of the world to video conferencing and it became very clear.

Allyson (23:14.843)
You

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (23:27.71)
that the magic that we had here was yes, there are lots of schools who may have the money to bring this container to their school and give their students the immersive experience that it provides. There are also lots of schools who may not have that money, but really we can still give them that experience. And so I spent the entirety of the pandemic really working on one, what is it that we're actually doing here and why is it meaningful? And again, that is the people.

and the types of stories that they can bring to students in the classroom. And two, how are we facilitating those conversations in a way that actually creates learning outcomes? And so we kind of developed a specific facilitation style and a guide for all of our partners around the world. I started working with my team on creating learning materials. So it might be helpful that the programming can be...

Ross Phillips (24:18.801)
Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (24:23.806)
you know, somebody like Ross, a teacher at a school kind of taking control, which he does. And he, so he'll really control the curriculum, working in partnership with the folks on the ground in other communities. But a lot of times teachers don't have that kind of time. And so I'll work with my team to create learning materials that we then share with teachers, their students prepare, there's a set of questions and the facilitators.

Ross Phillips (24:28.849)
Thank you.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (24:50.366)
on the other side are prepared to ask those questions and engage those students. And we might even send a member of our own team to a school to be the facilitator on the school side as well to help facilitate that. So it started as an art project. I think at the heart of it, it's really about the community and connection. The portal is a way to deliver that in the most authentic way possible, but it's really putting young folks into conversation.

with people different than themselves in a way that creates connection as opposed to just connect them to something through, you know, as they would through another medium.

Seth Fleischauer (25:26.051)
And so, I mean, that sounds amazing. And I love the origin story. Thank you for asking that question, Allison. In my work at Banyan Global Learning, we have teachers in America and we teach students in Asia. Our last podcast episode was with one of the facilitators on that end. We ended up getting really deep into discussions of culture and how to prepare different cultures to engage with each other because it's all well and nice.

until you start running into some values differences. And maybe maybe those values differences might be betrayed in some behaviors that people might think are rude, whereas other people don't. Maybe it gets into some like real deep stuff that is like political. How do you prepare? And this, I guess, a question for either of you. And I'm actually interested in what each of you have to say, both from the shared studios perspective and from the teacher on site perspective. How do you prepare students?

Allyson (26:15.771)
Mm -hmm.

Seth Fleischauer (26:22.179)
to have a conversation with students from our people from other cultures in a way that is going to sort of operate within the box of respectability, but also push the boundaries of what they are able to experience in their own world.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (26:39.774)
I'll start and then Ross, I'm actually really interested in hearing this from your perspective as well. You know, as part of our learning guides, we put together a set of shared understandings. This is a space where, and so there's kind of a set of, you know, I'm very much connected to what's called the Mejla style of dialogue or debate, which is, it's kind of born out of Arab cultures in the Middle East, but it's.

people coming together around a circle to address issues of common concern. And there is a certain set of rules in that engagement that have to do with equity in the times people speak, how people are paying attention to one another, the type of critical active listening that is necessary to actually solve issues. So there's a set of kind of shared understandings that we create. I think what makes this experience great is that if a kid,

in the US is talking to somebody who has survived the 1994 genocide against the Tutsi in Rwanda and says something that in any other context may be offensive because we work directly with those communities. They know that not everybody has the same context and understanding or cultural background as they do. They're not going to get offended in that moment. They're going to use it as a moment to actually teach and learn. And I think that's what.

I guess I keep bringing it back to these communities, these communities, because I really do think they're the most important part of the work that we do, is that they help us create a space where kids can trip up. And it's okay if they trip up. And it leads to, it creates an opportunity for us to have a conversation. There's also in the immersive space of the portal, I find, and this is where Ross would be really interested in hearing from you, I find that...

There is, it tends to be less likely that students will engage in behaviors that are problematic because they feel really accountable as if they're in the same room with that person. There's still going to be cultural differences that may create misunderstandings. That's not necessarily going to go away. But that there's that accountability, but there's also because it's still mediated by a screen, a distance that allows people to feel comfortable in their own.

Seth Fleischauer (28:45.219)
Hmm.

Allyson (28:46.299)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (29:01.182)
in their own kind of space and culture. So that's a long way of saying that, Ross. I would be really also interested in hearing what you have to say about that.

Ross Phillips (29:07.313)
Excuse me. Yeah, we've definitely had some kids inadvertently cross that line. And I think that's the key piece of it. And I think that's one of the things that makes the community in this so invaluable is that people who are coming into the portal have a vested interest and a desire to be there. So if.

something happens where a kid asks a question that it culturally is inappropriate or is insensitive to the moment. It's never a malicious thing. You know, it's not like an attention grabbing thing because that space again creates a different sort of standard of behavior for the students. But just in terms of the response, like it's, they see it as a teachable moment. And so my kind of guidance to the students is any question that you would feel comfortable answering.

if you were in their situations is an appropriate question to ask. And that has, you know, I think I've had, I don't know how many connections I've done over the years. I should have counted, I guess, but I think I've had one incident where afterwards I pulled the kid aside and I was like, what were you thinking when you asked that question? And we had a very candid chat about, you know, a better way to ask it potentially or a follow -up that could have been done. But, you know, the...

Seth Fleischauer (30:06.563)
Hmm.

Seth Fleischauer (30:21.187)
Hmm.

Ross Phillips (30:31.537)
community want to be there to help understand the world and make these connections and see a perspective. So I think when these issues have come up, it's always been at the end of the day, when we're debriefing and talking about it as a school or as a community after, it's like, it's always been a positive, even when it's been uncomfortable at the end of it, the kids have always come out significantly better off for having some of those conversations.

Allyson (31:01.371)
But for them to have that learning experience, it's just that real life application. It's what could happen and preparing them for any situation that they could walk into, whether that's in a professional life, which if we think about what does the future look like and we think about the growing technologies and where does even something like the portal take you next, it's so exciting to think about, but how do you best prepare?

Ross Phillips (31:08.817)
Mm -hmm.

Ross Phillips (31:21.553)
Mm -hmm.

Allyson (31:28.411)
individuals to have, like we mentioned before, that empathy, to have that global perspective. And when you can really, within the context of your school, turn a knob or walk into a space, and this is where you can have those moments that you might have only had because you went and traveled or because you found yourself in a conversation or an interaction that maybe was just what life handed you. It just provides such a deeper and more meaningful experience for your learners.

Ross Phillips (31:46.929)
Mm -hmm.

Allyson (31:58.363)
Um, which is just so, it makes me so happy. I'm trying to like keep my excitement in, which was usually what happens on this podcast. I'm like, ah, I'm so excited. But just to think, especially for the students when that are going to be able to connect globally, to create awareness, to continue to strengthen their skills, to have those conversations with each other and continue to have those global conversations. It just.

makes me feel excited for the future, for the learners that get to participate.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (32:30.046)
And I think it's important to say it's not perfect, right? In fact, this is something, I'm really grateful for this question because it's something that I've been thinking a lot about as we're preparing to go into two very different schools in the next month. One that we have operated in, they bring a portal every year. It's part of this event they do called Empathy Week in the UK. And these are kids who come from a very privileged background.

Allyson (32:32.411)
Great!

Seth Fleischauer (32:47.011)
Hmm.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (32:58.078)
And it's often a challenge, not that they're saying things that are offensive, but that they just, they kind of clam up. And I think, so for me, that's why the facilitators are so important is how are the facilitators really working to find ways for them to create that connection and to mediate when things may get sticky.

But it's also, I've been thinking a lot about how are we, again, even better preparing students. So one of the things I'm working on right now as part of our initial learning guides is really outlining the difference between cultural relativism and universalism. And that we have to understand that while we may not agree with some things, we can't create a sort of cultural universalism. This actually came up in a conversation where we were in this global call and this woman I was working with at the time,

asked everybody to say their name and their pronouns, which is her trying to be inclusive. And as somebody who cares about those things myself, I welcome that. But we're talking to some folks in Iraq and someone in a refugee camp in Uganda, and they don't have the same interaction and experience as we do with conversations around gender, which doesn't mean that they shouldn't have those.

Seth Fleischauer (33:52.579)
Hmm.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (34:16.414)
But what ended up happening is they didn't really understand what the question was. And then they felt stupid as a result of it. Um, and so I think it's important for us to, to have those conversations with students first. Um, but I do appreciate that because as Ross said, the network of people want to be there. They know that there might be awkward moments and they use those as, as opportunities to learn. And for me, Alison, to your point is.

Seth Fleischauer (34:20.131)
Hmm. Hmm.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (34:45.406)
We need those moments in order for us to actually grow into competent cross -cultural communicators. So.

Seth Fleischauer (34:49.698)
Hmm.

Yeah, absolutely.

Allyson (34:53.915)
Yeah, and especially when you were talking about high school students, having taught high school in some cases, you really, when you want them to engage or kind of break down the wall, you do need that level of, you know, how does this, how is this going to help them grow in the future? They need to almost see it. And when that intrinsic moment's just happening, that conversation, like you're in the same room, it just authenticates the learning experience in a way that is irreplaceable.

And as a video conferencing slash digital tools of all way lover, it's that immersive element. How can you take it further without subtracting or depending on a trend? It's really just about making sure you can have that conversation in the most authentic way possible is powerful.

Seth Fleischauer (35:44.419)
Yeah, and if I think I want to kind of restate pull everything that you guys said together because there's some really awesome answers there. You know, the question again is like how do you prepare students to have these like cross cultural conversations? And I heard a lot of things. One of them was the role of the facilitator, that facilitator both preparing them beforehand by creating an expectation that this is going to be a place where there could be some things that are said that you might feel are offensive.

but are presented in good faith, right? So that's a critical part of it. There's the immersive experience that Allison was just talking about of the portal itself. There's an immediacy to the design of the portal that makes you feel present and accountable for your own behavior. And that might be like a self -censoring thing. And then there's also this idea that the students are kind of...

self -selecting themselves. These are people who are interested in other cultures and therefore they are bringing that good faith to these conversations. And I'm wondering if you guys have any insight about how to reach the people who are not self -selecting themselves for this experience, right? If there's something, like do you have experience where you've essentially converted someone from...

Ross Phillips (36:53.969)
Thank you.

Seth Fleischauer (37:00.835)
being uninterested in an experience like this to becoming interested or have you found there are things that you can say or things that can be illustrated with this tool that can bring those other people into this camp of curiosity?

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (37:19.262)
I have something, but Ross, I'm going to pass it to you first.

Allyson (37:21.595)
Hehehehe

Ross Phillips (37:21.617)
Yeah, absolutely. So just to kind of put it in perspective at Winnicunnet, we have around 1200 students here, excuse me. And there have been times where we've run a week's worth of connections and numerically we've had every single student in the school go through the portal. So we've had everything from kids who skip six classes, my principal, I hope he doesn't listen, who'll skip all of their classes to show up.

Allyson (37:41.019)
So exciting.

Allyson (37:45.947)
Hahahaha

Seth Fleischauer (37:46.851)
I'm sorry.

Ross Phillips (37:49.553)
And we've had kids who, you know, we have to beg, borrow and steal effectively to get them to go in. But I think the thing that makes it engaging to get even some of those really reluctant students is that every connection on my end, I always set it up with the students, whether it's mine or another teacher, with like, okay, what's the objective?

and we outline it, whether it's a conversation about food, whether we had Spanish language students talking to Mexico City about unknown artists one time. So sometimes they get really specific. Sometimes it's just like the culture, you know, immigration, these big broad ideas. But once a group gets in there, I think, you know, you can't, you let them.

steer the conversation. And so it sometimes it stays very, very much on topic. And then other times it wanders a little bit. And that's where, you know, on our end as a facilitator and on the other end, you kind of massage some of those questions to tie in, you know, okay, if we're talking about migration and immigration, and all of a sudden, they're like, well, what about TikTok? Do you have TikTok? And it's like, okay, how do you use that as a tool?

and you start kind of blending the kid's interests into the way the conversation is going. And once you kind of connect a couple dots that way, they usually buy right in.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (39:15.87)
I'm so happy I let you go first, Ross, because you kind of teed me right up, which is those reluctant kids are often reluctant because they don't think that they have anything in common with the people they're speaking to. And if you go in saying, we're going to talk to some folks who survived the 1994 genocide against the Tutsis. And some kids are like,

Seth Fleischauer (39:18.499)
Hehehehe

Allyson (39:18.555)
Ha ha!

Ross Phillips (39:18.641)
Yeah.

Seth Fleischauer (39:32.323)
Hmm.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (39:41.118)
I don't even know who that is. I don't know where that is. I don't know, you know, that sounds like something heavy. Yes, we might get to that, but let's just go in and meet somebody first. I'll never forget. And this was with a college student, but we had a portal up at Arizona State University as part of a student welcome weekend. And, and this also points to kind of things that could get offensive as well. So these young men come in and we were connected at the time we had a portal in Herat, Afghanistan.

Allyson (40:04.475)
haha

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (40:11.518)
And these young men on the Arizona state side come in and I'm like, Hey, do you want to come in? We're having a conversation with some guys in Iraq, Afghanistan. And the first, the guy in Arizona goes, they have internet. And I was like, yes, they have internet. It's a global world. Like internet exists in other places around the world. Um, but please, please come on in. And I knew that I wasn't going to get a conversation there that was going to be, you know, an in -depth conversation about.

Allyson (40:25.723)
Yeah.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (40:39.582)
U .S.-Afghan relations. But I still saw it as a moment to create connection. And so we just started with the question of, what do you do for fun? And then the guys in Afghanistan were like, well, I ride my motorcycle, I play football, and I play video games. And then the guys in Arizona were like, oh, I play football and I play video games. And then there was this moment where these guys on the Arizona side suddenly were like, we play video games. In my head, I'm thinking it's a 20 -year -old, you know,

Seth Fleischauer (40:55.715)
Hehehehehe

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (41:09.31)
dude, no matter where you are, he probably plays video games, right? So, but for them, it was suddenly this moment of like, oh, we have something in common here. Those guys ended up staying in the portal for 45 minutes and the conversation ended with how did the guys in Herat feel about at the time the US presence? Did they want the US to leave? Did they want them to stay? You know, what would they ask of the US if they were going to stay? So it started from, and I,

I've written about this, that it's this moment of shared connection, like bonding over something as arbitrary as video games or ice cream that suddenly becomes this larger conversation that works as an avenue into these deeper topics. So I often don't bring students into the environment and just immediately think we're gonna dive into the climate crisis. I just, you know, like, you know what?

Allyson (42:00.251)
Mm -hmm. What's happening?

Ross Phillips (42:00.817)
Mm -hmm.

Seth Fleischauer (42:01.795)
You

Ross Phillips (42:05.329)
Yeah.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (42:06.75)
The world's coming to an end. But instead it's how do we find moments to connect them around anything that then creates an opening for these larger conversations to happen.

Allyson (42:07.067)
Yeah!

Seth Fleischauer (42:22.659)
And that's that that

Allyson (42:22.747)
And at that time in your life, it's essential because you're really in that moving in between that time where you're thinking outside of just yourself. Like you said, it's a global world. And this idea that, you know, how does the world operate where you're not at the center of it and being able to just extend thought, it provides something for those students, even if you can think of a video game.

Every time, hopefully, they go back to that video game, they think, oh my goodness, this taught me this and this, or I had that connection. And even that ripple effect by sharing that story helps to show that opportunity to form global connections to others.

Seth Fleischauer (43:06.595)
Yeah, gosh, what a powerful story. I mean, we ask for golden moments here, people telling their stories about what makes distance learning so amazing. And we've got like a dozen from you guys here. I do want to ask our other question, which is quite simply, why distance learning? Why does this medium matter?

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (43:29.79)
Yeah, Ross.

Ross Phillips (43:31.185)
Um, uh, so as a teacher, one of the big things that we're always trying to do is to prepare our students for whatever is going to come next. And I think there's no, you know, just speaking to the story that Brandon just went through, there's no corner of the world that can't be reached with an ease that we've never seen before. Um, and so I think when you have an opportunity,

and an ability to connect students, especially in a network of curators and staff and guests where the kids are going to, I've never walked away from a connection being like, well, that didn't go well. Like there's always a nugget, a moment that you can key in on to be like, that was fantastic. I'll replicate it, tell my kids about it, however it is. So I think by putting them in an environment to talk to incredibly diverse people about any topic imaginable.

I mean, we keep talking about the network, but I've never reached out to shared studios for a connection for my students. And they've been like, we don't know somebody who can do that. They're always like, talk to this person, go to this site. This is who you want to set up with. That distance bridging that gap is just so incredibly seamless with the shared studios and with the connections. And so I think that's why distance learning in particular with.

Shared Studios has been so pivotal for our school and our students.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (44:58.718)
And I'll say, you know, I mean, any educator right now knows that like, got to create global competencies for our students. You know, it's, it's an increasingly global world. I think there were so many promises of the internet and a lot of those promises didn't come to fruition because the internet started to work to further polarize and divide us as opposed to bring us together. And I think that we have to create.

Allyson (45:06.171)
You

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (45:27.678)
these global citizens, if we're going to solve the kind of intractable problems that this generation is going to be facing. And the reality is, is that those problems are so interconnected, whether it be climate, the climate crisis, refugees, global poverty and hunger, genocide, all of those things are so interconnected that it's not going to be one nation or one group of people who are going to solve it. It's going to have to take folks working together across cultures to meet.

those challenges in the future. And so we have to find ways to put young people into conversation with people who are different than them, with people who are like them. And, you know, distance learning is the way that we do that. If we can do it in a way that is immersive and full body and creates empathy while simultaneously helping folks work together to solve those challenges, I think we get some icing on a cake.

But really any sort of distance learning that allows us to engage folks is one step towards actually creating the future that we want these young people to have.

Seth Fleischauer (46:34.499)
Hmm. Preach. Yes. Amazing. Wow. What an inspiring conversation. Thank you to both of you for coming on the podcast today. We really appreciate your time and have such profound respect, admiration, appreciation and gratitude for the work you are doing. Gosh, I can't say enough about about how amazing.

Allyson (46:36.187)
Yes, I'm like, let's make the cake. Let's get the icing too. Let's do it.

Ross Phillips (46:39.505)
Thank you.

Allyson (46:50.139)
So grateful.

Seth Fleischauer (47:03.331)
the work is. For our listeners, sorry.

Allyson (47:05.435)
Yes, and make sure to check the links because we'll have all of the links so you can check out what all of the environments look like. You can find maybe the environment that works for your space, your community, your school. We'll have all of that in the show notes. Sorry, just wanted to make sure everyone gets to know that with this inspiring conversation, you can go check out all of the visuals as well that were shared.

Seth Fleischauer (47:28.771)
And that will be on cilc .org slash podcast. If you want to support the podcast, please tell a friend, follow it, rate it, or leave us a review. Thank you as always to our editor, Lucas Salazar. And if you want to know the answer to why distance learning, please check out the people we highlight on this podcast. These are the people who are leveraging this amazing technology to truly transform the learning experience. Why distance learning? Because it's accessible and it's awesome. See you next time.

Dr. Brandon Ferderer (47:28.926)
Awesome.