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What does apartment building investing really look like — and where does it fit in the real estate landscape?
In this episode of The Real Estate of Things, multifamily specialist Patrick McEvay of the McEvay Blair Group at Marcus & Millichap joins us to unpack multifamily real estate in Vancouver (& beyond) right now: who really owns Vancouver’s rental buildings, why many of these long-term “mom and pop” owners are choosing to sell, and how policy, financing, and market shifts are shaping today’s landscape. From cap rates and cash flow to tenant dynamics and long-term ownership, Patrick shares a clear, candid look at how deals come together and what makes them successful. Whether you’re an investor, agent, or just curious about how rental housing works behind the scenes, this conversation offers practical insight into one of the most important and least understood parts of the market.
Talk with Scott Dempster anytime about all things real estate.
Chapters:
- (00:00) - Introduction
- (01:07) - Meet Patrick McEvay
- (05:57) - What Multifamily Real Estate Actually Is
- (11:18) - The Reality of Ownership in Vancouver
- (19:07) - Tenant Dynamics When Buildings Are Sold
- (22:54) - The State of the Multifamily Market in 2025
- (25:21) - How Multifamily Deals and Financing Work
- (31:14) - What Makes a Strong Multifamily Investment
- (36:59) - Common Pitfalls and Deal Breakers
- (40:49) - Off-Market Deals and How Transactions Happen
- (41:54) - The State of Multifamily Buildings in Vancouver
- (46:55) - Policy Changes and Pressure on Landlords
- (49:25) - Conclusion
Creators and Guests
What is The Real Estate of Things: Vancouver real estate, real stories, real insight?
The go-to listen for anyone passionate about buying, building, or investing in Vancouver’s housing market.
Whether you’re a first-time buyer trying to decode what a teardown is really worth, planning your first laneway build, or chasing an investment property in a city where prices never sit still, this podcast unpacks the real costs, curveballs, and call-it-like-it-is advice you won’t get at an open house. From hidden costs to hyper-local strategies, every episode helps you navigate Vancouver real estate with your eyes wide open.
Hosted by Vancouver realtor Scott Dempster, this podcast gives you the keys to the truth about Vancouver real estate; sharing insider stories, lessons, and laughs from builders, designers, and industry pros who know what it really takes to make it here.
Blending insight, humor, and hard-earned local experience, The Real Estate of Things is your trusted guide to one of North America’s most dynamic (and most misunderstood) housing markets.
From East Van character homes to West Vancouver luxury builds, The Real Estate of Things dives into every corner of Vancouver’s housing market. Expect conversations about rezoning, permits, strata living, laneway houses, condo flipping, market trends, and more—plus tips for navigating real estate in neighbourhoods like Kitsilano, Mount Pleasant, the North Shore, the Fraser Valley and beyond.
New episodes drop the first Tuesday and second-to-last Tuesday of each month, brought to you by The OWL Group, a Vancouver-based real estate team known for their expertise, integrity, and dedication to keeping the process fun, informative, and professional.
Talk with Scott Dempster anytime about all things real estate.
Direct: 604-808-6050
Email: scott@scottdempster.com
Web: owlgroup.ca
Patrick McEvay: You know, sometimes these
landlords can get, you know, vilified
or just wrongly labeled, you know,
thinking they're these big, you know,
corporations or entities that are, you
know, they, they diminish the human factor
and that's simply not true or accurate.
Mm-hmm.
Especially within Vancouver, um, where
a huge, huge majority are still mom
and pop owners, you know, they're,
they're, they're generational owners.
Uh, you know, and they've, they've bought
these, you know, they're very humble
people that, you know, would've made some
very smart decisions years ago and, uh,
you know, collected a bunch of pennies and
put them into, uh, this investment that,
you know, is a vehicle for preserving
wealth and growing generational wealth.
Scott Dempster: Everyone's
got a real estate story.
Some are wins, and some
are total nightmares.
We are here to give you the keys to
what's really going on in Vancouver
real estate, from what it actually
takes to become a real estate agent,
to what it really costs to build a
home and all the stories in between.
This is The Real Estate of Things
where nothing is off the table
and everything is negotiable.
Today, my guest, a friend, past
client, um, and commercial sector,
multifamily sector real estate agent,
um, Patrick McEvay of McEvay Blair,
uh, Multifamily Group, and they're with
Marcus & Millichamp here in Vancouver.
And uh, thanks very much
for coming on Patrick.
Patrick McEvay: Thank you for having me.
Scott Dempster: Yeah.
Patrick McEvay: Excited to be here.
Scott Dempster: Yeah.
How are we doing today?
Patrick McEvay: Great.
Scott Dempster: Excellent, excellent.
First thing I always like to do is kind
of find out how someone ended up here.
Not in the chair, but exactly how they
ended up in your career, in your position.
Then we can kind of dive into
more of, um, what your career
is and that kind of thing.
So what is your background and,
you know, how did you end up in
multifamily, you know, residential
real estate in, in Vancouver?
Patrick McEvay: Yeah, I mean, uh,
geez, goes back crazy enough, 15 years
now, um, getting into it, but the.
The path certainly
started well beyond that.
Uh, back in high school even, um, you
know, opportunity came and knocking
through somebody I knew that, uh, tried
to convince me to get into to, to,
to real estate at a pretty young age.
I was still a teenager, still in
high school, and I, I thought it was
ludicrous and, uh, really had, had
no desire at the time, truth be told.
But the conversations continued
throughout university and the
idea of a job, uh, coming outta
university was, was pretty attractive.
Uh, so frankly, that was, that's kind
of what, what, uh, why I, I, I finally,
uh, succumbed to, to the pressure.
Uh, but realizing, you know, it was the,
the greatest choice and opportunity that
was ever presented to me in my life.
I think because, uh, I was afforded, uh.
Just a, uh, an exceptional mentor, uh, and
friend who, who got me into the business.
Bill Goold, who, who's, who's a legend
in, uh, multifamily, uh, real estate,
uh, here, you know, in Vancouver
and through BC And, uh, yeah, I
was a mentor for me for, for years.
I got to work directly under
him and, uh, we grew a, uh, an
exceptional team and, and eventually.
Uh, moved to, you know, we, we
were at a, you know, we were just
a little boutique brokerage really.
And, uh, then we, we eventually
moved to, to a large global, uh,
brokerage, uh, here, here in Vancouver.
And he, he eventually retired and then,
uh James and I, who we've worked together
for, for over 10 years, we, uh, you
know, we ended up at Marcus & Millichap
shot five years ago where we are now.
Scott Dempster: And your, uh, your
business partner James, um, how did,
did, did you meet him through Bill,
like just in the office kind of thing
and that's how your partnership formed?
Patrick McEvay: Yeah.
Yeah.
Cool story there too.
I mean, James, uh, James is from Kelowna
and he was there really just, just
getting into uh, real estate himself.
Um, again, 10 years ago, 10, 15 years
ago, and, uh, on the residential side
and back in the day, we, we, we sell
properties all over the province and, um.
We, you know, to, to do so in some of
these areas that we're not, you know,
if we're not in Kelowna, we would, and
we were at the time, under the ReMax,
uh, umbrella, uh, of companies, uh, you
know, kinda operate our own little brand
through that, but utilize and leaned
on re max when we needed an agent in
a, you know, one of these other towns.
So we'd call up the local brokerage
and see who's there and who'd be
a good fit to kind of step in and,
and be a, a satellite agent for us.
And, uh, and James had his hand up.
You know, he was, he was young and
hungry, and we connected right away.
We're the same age and really kind
of the same stage of our lives.
And, and, uh, he, uh, yeah, he, he,
he jumped on some, some listings that
we had in, in, in Kelowna at the time.
Uh, I don't think we ever ended up
selling any of them, but he, uh, he
quickly, you know, we, again, we hit it
off and he and his, uh, his, his, his
new wife at the time, and, and actually
new newborn child too, they really
wanted to, to move back to Vancouver.
And there was, uh, certainly a
lot of capacity that we needed to
fill, uh, just here in Vancouver.
And so it, it all happened very fast.
He, he moved, we started working
together as, as, as, uh, you
know, partners, um, uh, with Bill.
Then, uh, as I say, you know, that
was kind of right at the time the, the
business really started to take off
and, and grow quite quite substantially.
Scott Dempster: And now, like you said,
you um, you and James, your team has made
the move, um, to Marcus & Millichap, um,
which is predominantly well known in the
US and now they have a, a very strong
presence, you know, here in bc right?
So how big is that brokerage
here and, um office downtown
and things like that, or is it
Patrick McEvay: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
As you say, like, they're,
they're, they're, they're very
well known down in the south.
They're, uh, they're, they're a, uh,
they're, they're, they're US based, um,
and predominantly multifamily as well.
Um, which for James and I was,
uh, attractive and unique, uh,
when, you know, they came knocking
to, uh, to, to, to bring us over.
Um, just because, I mean, multifamily
is such a forgotten stepchild in the
commercial real estate world sometimes.
Scott Dempster: Mm-hmm.
Patrick McEvay: You know, 'cause we
often are not mistaken for residential.
You know, it's multifamily, it's, you
know, it's, it's homes, it's, it's,
uh, you know, so we, we kind of operate
frankly, between both worlds to, um,
you know, between the residential
world and the commercial world.
And, uh, most, a lot of commercial
brokerages are certainly from our
experience in, in where we've been, um.
Don't, you know, multifamily is just,
it, it's a, it's a different beast.
It, it's very unique.
And so to have, uh, you know, a, a, a
big company, a brokerage, that, that's
what they got their start on, you know,
60 years ago and still to this day, I
mean, they're the number one performer,
um, you know, in North America when
it comes to multifamily brokerage.
So they, they understood our business.
They, you know, we
talked the same language.
That was, that was very refreshing for us.
Yeah.
Um, but, uh, yeah, when they came, uh, you
know, they're, they're still relatively.
Uh, new, I guess in, in, in kind of
the scope or the sphere of, of, of
the competitors that are out there,
uh, through Canada and through bc
but, but easily, you know, we're,
we're within the top five, you know,
commercial brokerages here in Vancouver,
um, and, uh, and, and in Canada.
But, you know, steadily growing too.
That's the thing.
I think, you know, that's, uh, certainly
what I love about, uh, about what we have,
uh, just within our team and, and, and
the brokerage that, that, uh, that we have
in Vancouver is that it's, uh, you know,
we're, we're on a fast, upward trajectory
that that's exciting to be a part of.
Scott Dempster: Yeah.
It's funny because, um, you and I like
kind of going back, uh, we first met when
I was host hosting an open house, one of
our listings here in North Vancouver, and,
um, stayed in touch with you at the time.
You, you know, you were very open, honest.
You're like, Hey, I'm a commercial agent
myself, looking thing, things like that.
And I was like, you know what?
I'm just gonna stay in touch
and if I can add advice.
And you were looking even here
in, in Pemberton Heights and a few
different areas and things like that.
So we'd be, you know, we started
chatting and built a rapport and a
relationship and, uh, my, my business
partner Colin, uh, one time was like,
eh, what, what, what does Patrick do?
And I'm like, I think he sells condos,
or, or, I think he sells condo buildings.
I'm pretty sure.
And it took me probably three or four
months to get a better understanding
of kinda what you did in that.
And I'll ask you this, but what you
sell, a multi-family, to kind of clarify
that is picture a building in East
Vancouver or Kitsilano or North Vancouver,
wherever it is, and kind of those, not
always, but the older building, maybe
it's a walk up at the front mm-hmm.
With, you know, that kind of thing,
and it's stairs, there's no elevator.
Or maybe there is, I'm
not demeaning the product.
Patrick McEvay: No, no.
That's, that's it.
Scott Dempster: But older buildings
that have been well kept and things
like that, that are on generous
parcels of land and things like that.
And then, um, you market list and sell
those properties, um, to a variety
of different buyers, whether it's
for redevelopment or for someone to
own and hold and things like that.
But what, what is it?
Because like you say, it's the forget
forgotten stepchild, but it's also, um, a
bit of a unclear thing almost what you do.
So can you kinda explain like what you
guys specialize in and what you do?
Patrick McEvay: Yeah, I'll try.
I've always struggled with this.
Yeah.
Uh, because yeah, I mean, even, you know,
people like yourself, people within the
industry still don't have a, a clear
idea and, and, and rightfully so because
it's, uh, you know, it, it optically
or visually there isn't, you know, a,
uh, an office building or an industrial
warehouse that represents what we do.
You know, when you look in an apartment
building, which is what we sell.
Easily confused for a condo building.
And, and that just comes down
to the difference of title,
you know, and, and ownership.
Yeah.
Um, you know, condos are, units are
individually owned, so what we do is kind
of like on a, you know, wholesale basis,
you know, so we sell apartment buildings,
so it's, it's one building and whether
that's, you know, five, 10, a hundred
units, it's one ownership, it's one title.
So one entity owns all of those
units and they're rented out.
And so it's the, for the
purpose of, of, uh, of renting.
And what a lot of people would
confuse is, oh, so yeah, you sell,
you know, multiple condos, so somebody
owns, you know, all these condos.
It's like, no, no, there's,
you know, a legal difference.
And again, in, in, in title and
ownership, um, you know, condos
are, are a very different thing.
Uh, and you know, a lot of people do that.
A lot of people bulk buy condo units Yeah.
And, and, and rent them out.
But they're, they're, you know, when you
get into the nitty gritty of it, it's,
uh, it, it's far different, but yeah.
Even after explaining this to
somebody, they'll still look at me
and say, so what's this condo worth?
Scott Dempster: Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
So just circling back on that, so
it's like you say, it's one title,
it's one owner, so it's, you know.
Mike Smith or Sue Smith, and
they, they own that building.
Mm-hmm.
They own that piece of property.
And then they have 5, 10, 15,
20, 35, 40 tenants mm-hmm.
Um, that are all living
in, in the buildings.
And, um, like you said, you.
I mean, what is your process like?
Um, you're dealing with a lot,
a lot of different people,
a lot of different things.
And what is the process?
Patrick McEvay: There's a lot that goes
into it, but, um, you know, tenants,
they're, you know, they're their owner's
clients or, or, or customers, really.
So, you know, we're dealing with
the owner, of course, and the
tenants are, are the owners.
It's like a business.
So you're, you know, buying or owning
and operating an apartment building, um,
is, uh, it is like running a business.
Mm-hmm.
It's like, you know, and your,
uh, you know, your, your, your,
your customers are your tenants.
And, um, and so, you know, we, we have a
lot of interactions with, with tenants of
course, but you know, they're, they're,
they're not on that same level I guess.
They're, you know, we're, we're dealing
with an owner and, and you know, this
is where, you know, as I say, we, we.
We do legitimately operate, kind of,
you know, we have one foot in both
world of residential real estate
and, and, and commercial real estate.
Just because a lot of the people
that we do deal with, you know, the
owners are large in part, you know,
mom and pop operators, you know?
Yeah.
We like to call 'em, especially
in Vancouver, it's um.
What we like to say, or how
we kind of coin it, you know,
very fragmented ownership.
So we, you know, the, you, you look
around and you nailed it earlier, uh, in
describing, you know, you look at these
older, typically older vintage, uh, wood
frame, walk up apartment buildings Yeah.
That are, you know, littered
across, you know, north
Vancouver, east Van, down in kits.
You know, you can't go far from that.
And they're, they're usually
quite clustered together.
Large.
In part, the large majority of, of the
ownership of those are, as I say, you
know, mom and pop owners, you know,
they're not these, you know, sometimes
these landlords can get, you know,
vilified or just wrongly labeled,
you know, thinking they're these big,
you know, corporations or entities
that are, uh, you know, they're,
they're, they're, you know, they're,
they diminish the human factor, and
that's simply not true or accurate.
Mm-hmm.
Especially within Vancouver.
Um, where a huge, huge majority
are still mom and pop owners.
You know, they're, they're,
they're generational owners.
Uh, you know, and they've, they've bought
these, you know, they're very humble
people that, you know, would've made some
very smart decisions years ago and, uh,
you know, collected a bunch of pennies and
put them into, uh, this investment that,
you know, is a vehicle for preserving
wealth and growing generational wealth.
Um, that.
It's, and often or not, you know, they,
they would've, they, they would've
bought it years ago it to live in too.
Right?
And so they, you know, they, they can,
they can buy a 10 unit building, you
know, down in Kito, and they, they
live and raise their family in one
of the units and rent the others out.
Um, you know, they're not, you know,
again, these, these big corporations
are, you know, uh, ultra rich, you know,
people who are just smart and humble.
Scott Dempster: Yeah.
It's.
It's interesting you say that about,
uh, kind of the, one of the, the
typical owners of these buildings.
And I, I picture the same thing
in stories you've told me over
the years and things like that.
It's, you know, a family that came, maybe
came over from Europe and they, they had
just enough money, worked really hard and
then, you know, money was more accessible.
Maybe it wasn't at the time, but
they, they scraped together everything
and they lived in the building and
cut the lawn and fixed the plumbing
themselves and things like that.
Mm-hmm.
And you picture this mom and
pop kinda, you know, scenario.
Right?
So after ha like you say, it's an
amazing way to preserve wealth.
It's an amazing way to, you know,
pass that along in the kind of lineage
of your family and things like that.
So, I guess begs the question.
After a period of time, why are these
families, these mom and pops selling?
Patrick McEvay: Usually?
It, it, it, uh, narrows it
down, uh, pretty quickly.
Um, 'cause, you know, speaking to that
kind of profile of, uh, of ownership,
you know, the mom and pops and you
nail it with the, uh, you know, kind
of the large and part immigrants.
You know, you look at, you know,
the kind of the, the traditional
ownership profile of these, you know,
boutique apartment buildings scattered
throughout Vancouver, and huge, large
majority would be a. Immigrants.
Hmm.
You know, and whether they're from Europe
or from any Asian country or, or anywhere
and everywhere across the world, you know,
coming to Canada to, you know, build a
better life, um, you know, with often with
very, very little, uh, that they're coming
with and, uh, you know, just got to work.
And, uh, and you know, they.
They're, uh, they're, you know, they,
they're incredibly resourceful and,
um, and, and hardworking, you know,
the mentality that went into that, and
they generally would never sell, you
know, it's, it's to buy and to hold.
And that really is fundamentally what,
you know, multifamily investing is.
It's, it's, it's long term, right?
It's not, it's not getting and get
out or you're not playing markets.
I mean, uh, you know, let me
ask you like, what, what is the.
What is the average or typical
lifespan of home ownership?
You know, when someone buys, how
long does it take 'em to sell?
Scott Dempster: Yeah.
It's somewhere around 10 years.
Okay.
Um, you know, uh, and I think the
reason for that is circumstances
change, kids ages change.
Mm-hmm.
Um, kids move out, you have
kids, all these different things.
Right.
Um, so on average, you know.
I would say it's about 10 years.
And, but that's on a, a larger
scale for your business, right?
Yeah.
Or a bigger number rather.
Patrick McEvay: Oh, for sure.
I mean, it's, uh, you know, the historical
number for us was, was 30 plus years.
Yeah.
You know, of, of, of ownership
before they would sell.
So it, it's certainly generational
and, and that's what it allows us to,
to, to, to really get to know these
people and develop really, really
long-term lasting relationships.
Um, with, with these owners
and, and with our clients.
Um, but it's often or not, you know,
it's, it's often the kids that are the
ones making the decisions to, to sell.
And so, you know, these, these owners,
again, they live very, very humble lives.
Often or not, you know,
'cause they're never.
You know, the money that these
things produce, they're often
putting right back into the business.
Right, right.
Yeah.
And so, you know, they're
not living lavish lifestyles.
Uh, they're, they're reinvesting back
into it, into that building or, or maybe
buying more, you know, and acquiring more.
And so there are very often, you know,
you, they're, they, they, they can grow an
immense amount of wealth over, you know, a
long period of time that you know, is not
obvious, you know, from the outside in.
And, uh, and off, you know, sometimes
the ones that are more forward thinking
or you know, will plan ahead will
realize that, yeah, it's probably
in the best interest to consider
what that succession plan is and.
Often or not, that might mean
consolidating properties or selling.
And so that money can be dispersed
throughout the family, you know?
Yeah.
Before, uh, the inevitable happens.
Uh, but often or not, unfortunately,
the reality is that the inevitable
does happen and then it does go to
the children and hopefully they've
would've had, you know, plans.
Practices in place that, uh, you know,
the kids are able to, to take over and
Scott Dempster: retain it.
Yeah,
Patrick McEvay: retain
it and, and, and move on.
But unfortunately that's
not always the case.
And so, um, you know, death and
taxes inevitably come calling.
And, and that's the reality, you know,
and, and, and often or not, um, you
know, when these assets, certainly on a
generational level, uh, end up selling.
Scott Dempster: And when, when these
properties come to market, um, you
know, the Marcus & Millichap sign goes
up in, uh, up in front of the building.
Do you find that, uh, the tenants, um.
Because who, whomever the buyer is,
is gonna retain those tenants, or
pardon me, assume those tenants.
Mm-hmm.
Um, do they get a little
antsy and things like that?
Is there, is there a lot of questions?
Is there a lot of, oh, who's
gonna be the next owner?
Who is the next owner?
Or things like that that you have
to field and, you know, rightfully
so, they've lived there for, maybe
they've lived there for 20 years.
Yeah.
And run to that unit.
Right.
Patrick McEvay: That's certainly
what we've, you know, and this is
to your previous question, you know,
just, you know, some of the process
and what we've learned early on.
And I, I would say, you know, this
goes for any professional in real
estate is you know how to manage your
client's expectations and minimize
disruptions and, and headaches, right?
That that leads to, you
know, a positive result.
You know, you want to, you, you
make sure, you wanna make sure that
no matter what the result is that
you know the, you've retained that
relationship with, with the client.
And one of the biggest things that
we've learned is, is uh, or ways
to avoid some of those headaches
is in dealing with tenants, right?
Because again, the tenants are
the landlord's customers, and
often not, they have, you know,
very longstanding relationships,
hopefully positive ones, um, which
is usually the case, but not always.
And we, you know, we, we want to make
sure we honor that and respect that and.
But the reality is, you know, well
for, for one thing, you know, we don't
throw a big sign o over under of the
building because that's one way that
you're just gonna get, you know, okay.
Tenants freaking out.
Scott Dempster: Yeah.
Patrick McEvay: Oh my God.
The building's for sale, uh, you know,
we're all gonna get evicted and, you
know, we we're gonna have nowhere to live.
Um, and of course, you know,
who's gonna be feeling that
it's gonna be the owner, right.
And, and so, you know, tho those are
conversations that are probably just
best avoided, especially early on Sure.
Throughout the marketing process,
because there is no certainty
of anything happening, right.
I mean, as you know, just because
you're listing to properties, I
mean, it's gonna sell, um, maybe
back when the market was, was hot.
Yeah.
I say
Scott Dempster: maybe a few years ago,
Patrick McEvay: not,
certainly not the case now.
So we're, we're always
very mindful of that.
And often or not, you know,
our, our, our marketing process.
Is it, it's not exciting, it's not flashy.
It's not, it's not, it's not sexy, which
is something that, uh, I do envy, uh,
you know, from the real estate, uh,
the residential side of the business.
You, you guys, uh,
Scott Dempster: you're
not on TikTok or anything?
Patrick McEvay: Yeah, no, we're not
doing dances in front of the building.
Uh, it's, uh, it's a very old school,
um, very direct, uh, approach.
I mean, just the reality is, I mean, the,
the profile of buyers, you know, it's,
it's a very small insular market, so.
There's, you know, a handful of people
that are gonna be, you know, buying them.
And we usually have those
relationships to begin with.
So, you know, there's no need to, to make
some big flashy, you know, presentation.
Scott Dempster: Yeah.
That, that's interesting.
And, and I think as a tenant, that's
exactly how you would want to feel.
Like you say just you, more or less,
you're placing a different, you know,
company name on the rent check each month,
and you don't want anything to change.
You've probably been there for
a long period of time, so that's
probably best case scenario anyway.
Right.
Patrick McEvay: The, yeah.
And as you say it, it
is best case scenario.
It's not always the case.
And 'cause the reality is, and
this is unfortunately where.
You know, there's these examples that,
you know, the media latches onto.
Of course, of course.
You know, they, they make headlines of,
you know, bad actors and, you know, there,
there's, there's the, you know, the,
the cases of, you know, uh, dare I say,
you know, the term we using, you know,
renoviction or demoviction where mm-hmm.
Whether it's, uh, you know, an investor
that you know is coming in trying to
evict tenants to renovate and move, move
rents to market, and, uh, or you know,
a developer buying, you know, these
old buildings that sit on some valuable
land that they're gonna tear down.
And build a tower and, you know, I'm
not gonna ignore, or, or, or, you
know, suggest that that doesn't happen.
It does.
Yeah.
But I would say it's, it's, um,
it's a, it's a very, uh, it's far
less the case than the alternative,
what I was speaking about earlier.
Scott Dempster: Gotcha.
Um, so all things, you know, buying
and selling in the multifamily world.
In the winter of 2025 here, what is the
market doing in terms of multifamily
residential sales, and where are you
seeing kind of the, the wins, the
loss, the pitfalls, that sort of thing?
Patrick McEvay: Yeah, I
mean, yeah, good question.
Um, I mean, if you ask that question to
anybody in real estate, regardless of, of
what they're doing, do you get a different
answer or is it all the kind of the same?
Scott Dempster: Pretty much, yeah.
It's either one word.
Patrick McEvay: Yeah.
Scott Dempster: Four letters or it's,
uh, it's an hour and a half answer.
Patrick McEvay: Yeah.
Yeah.
So I'll, I'll, I'll try not to give you
the one word, nor will I try to give
you the hour and a half answer, but, uh.
It's, uh, you know, it, it's
all relative and certainly, you
know, we've seen better days.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but that's the beauty of multifamily
and what we do is that it's, it's, it's
generally quite consistent and stable.
And, and I mean, it goes to the
very heart of why people invest
in it to begin with because it is
a very conservative asset class.
Mm-hmm.
And it, it's, uh, I mean, it,
it, it, it weathers the storm.
I mean, you know, you could call it,
uh, not recession proof, but certainly
a very good recession fighter.
So even in the worst of times,
people need somewhere to live
Scott Dempster: Basic human need.
Patrick McEvay: It's a basic human need.
It's it's shelter.
So, um, yeah, it's, it's a, it's a,
it's, you know, than, than jumping
to the, you know, the market again.
You know, we haven't, uh, it's, it, it,
it's seen better days, but you know, it.
It's also, you know, we've seen far worse,
or it could be far worse, I should say.
We haven't seen far worse.
It could be far worse.
So I, I hesitate in, in, uh, in, in
complaining about it because I just
don't think we have the right to,
you know, I think the market, uh,
you know, certainly for, you know,
speaking personally, my, myself and my
team, we've, we've, we've managed to
do quite well in spite of the market.
Um, you know, we've had actually, I mean,
one of the best years we've had in the
past five years, um, and, you know, have.
Are continuing to grow and, and you
know, just build market share when,
you know, a lot of our competitors
are, or, you know, other others in the
market are, uh, licking their wounds,
I guess, you know, and, and the market.
Uh, I mean, it could, could do all
of us more favors, but, um, it's, uh,
it's certainly, you know, it's not.
It's not as bad as I know
a lot of people have it.
You know, I, I wouldn't wanna be
doing pre-sale condos right now.
I could tell you that
Scott Dempster: we've been fortunate
enough where, um, there's always gonna be
people buying and selling real estate and
whatever sector we're in, whether it's
commercial, multifamily, residential,
condos, all this kind of stuff where
people are gonna need to sell mm-hmm.
And want to sell for,
for those reasons, right?
Patrick McEvay: Mm-hmm.
Scott Dempster: So that's been
a, that's been a big factor.
So.
Next, next kinda question to kind of
point back at, at your job and you
know, looking at a property, you know,
sometimes we'll have a client come to
us and say, you know, Scott, I want
to, I wanna buy an investment property.
Right?
And I have, you know, one point.
$5 million to spend and, um,
what can it spin off in rent?
And oftentimes we'll say, oh, it can
spin off 7,000 bucks a month in rent.
And they go with the calculator and the
mortgage broker and things like that.
Mm-hmm.
And they come back and they go,
okay, well let's offer it, you know,
1,550,000 or 1.6 or whatever it is.
The, the numbers make sense.
The deal makes sense, you know, the
cash flow, all these sorts of things.
We put the deal together and they bought
the house and put a tenant in there.
Patrick McEvay: Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Scott Dempster: Now.
Your process with that.
Um, say I'm your buyer and I come to you
and I, and I come to James and I say,
Hey guys, I'm thinking about buying one
of these three story buildings and kits.
Mm-hmm.
Um, you know, it's, it's, let's call
it, it's 5 million bucks and there's.
40 units in the building.
And I'm not asking you to do the
quick math on your, on your iPhone or
anything, but what, what is the process?
I, if I'm gonna be your, I'm your client
as a buyer, and you know, this property,
like I just described, is listed.
Patrick McEvay: Unfortunately, we
are often accused of being dream
killers, uh, which I, I happily wear
just because there is such a. We,
we pride ourselves in educating our
clients, you know, at, at every level,
uh, or stage, uh, of the process.
Whether that's getting in, you know,
from, you know, day one or, you know,
30 years into it, you know, there,
there's always, um, there's always, you
know, proper advice to, to give and,
you know, I cut my teeth, get into the
business, working with first time buyers.
That's, that's really where I. Um,
where, you know, most of my, yeah, first
few years were, were really that, um,
that's changed so dramatically because
there's almost just, I mean, just
like home ownership has, has almost
gotten like prohibitively expensive.
Scott Dempster: Mm-hmm.
Patrick McEvay: As has, you know,
investing in multifamily where,
you know, it's, it's, uh, almost
impossible to, to, to buy something.
You know, you could, you could, uh,
you know, 15 years ago you could
come say, yeah, I've got half a
million dollars, a million dollars,
you know, and you could buy, uh.
You know, a, a, a decent, uh,
little apartment building, you know?
Scott Dempster: Mm-hmm.
Patrick McEvay: In, in town, um, that
had some, some great potential to it.
Uh, but it's just not the case anymore.
I mean, you know, of course real estate
has continued to, to appreciate and, uh.
And, uh, and the lending and the
borrowing of it make is, is is
exceptionally more challenging too.
And the bank is really only gonna be
lending on the, you know, the property's
ability to, to service its own debt.
Um, so it has everything to do with, you
know, the rents that are often in place,
you know, 'cause it's, you know, most of
the time it's gonna be fully occupied.
So what is, uh, you know, what,
what is the cash flow and the
bank's gonna tell you well.
So it's gonna be very dependent, you know,
you could come to me, um, and say, well.
You know, if, if we're looking
at properties, um, none of
them are gonna be equal.
You know, one 10 unit
building is gonna be.
Vastly different than the next
10 unit building because the
income is gonna be different.
So it's, uh, the idea, and, and this is
kind of where, you know, we, we, we engage
or have these conversations is there's
no quote unquote pre-approval, right?
You can't come, Hey, I've been
pre-approved for, for this number.
I can, I can buy this.
That doesn't exist.
'cause it's, it's, it's all
based upon the property's income.
So your own qualifications personally
are, are less relevant than what
the building's qualifications are.
And, um.
And so, you know, it, it's about,
you know, when you're looking to,
to get into it, uh, it's about,
uh, you know, finding what works.
You know, obviously how
much equity you got.
You got a million, you got a
million and a half dollars.
Well, you know, how far
can I. You know, take that.
Mm-hmm.
And more often than not, you
know, it's, uh, those, you
know, those first time buyers.
And again, just, you know, the challenges
we have in Vancouver or the price, you
know, when it comes to pricing, you
know, most would be going further afield.
You know, it's to secondary markets.
There's, there's great opportunities
out there and your money's gonna go
far, you know, a whole lot further.
But going outside of, um, the lower
mainland is, is, is gonna present its own
set of challenges, just in terms of, well.
Alright.
Uh, it's real estate at the end of the
day, and that's probably the second
pitfall that we encounter is the
reality of any real estate investing,
let alone in apartment building, is
that it's not just passive income.
You know, you're not just buying this
asset and collecting the cash flow.
Yeah.
It's not just a personal ATM machine.
Um.
It does require, you know, a certain
amount of oversight and, and management
and at the very least, it's a
part-time job, if not a full-time job.
Scott Dempster: Yeah.
I, I talked with, um, my good friend, uh,
Tony Cleal from, from Northland Living.
And, you know, hearing he, he was,
when he was with InCorp, he, he
was doing land acquisition, the
purchase and things like that.
And your eyes would roll.
If you look at how many
different properties you look
and the time invested to mm-hmm.
Look at each property and assess its
value, what you can do with it, what
you can't, um, these sorts of things.
And then to walk away from that,
um, and say, you know what?
This isn't the one for, for
us, for me, kind of thing.
Same thing in the multi
multifamily sector, right?
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
You, you have to analyze,
you have to do this severe.
Regiment of due diligence.
Like it's, it's a lot.
And if the numbers obviously
don't make sense, well A,
the bank's not gonna say yes.
Mm-hmm.
And b nor should you, right?
Patrick McEvay: Yeah, exactly.
Scott Dempster: So, um, so again,
making the, the analogy comparison
with residential to what, what you do.
Oftentimes we'll have a buyer.
Call us up and they say, you know,
we're looking for a 3,600 square
foot home with four bedrooms up and
two bathrooms in a detached true car
garage and somewhere for the kids
to play and all this kind of stuff.
Right.
It sounds
Patrick McEvay: like
me when I came to you.
Yeah.
Scott Dempster: Yeah.
Typ typical kind of, um, wishlist in terms
of what they're looking for in a home.
Um, now switching gears back to
your world, is there a, is there a
product that, you know, for lack of
a better term, sells like hotcakes?
Or that a lot of investors,
a lot of buyers are.
Uh, attracted to because it spins
off, you know, a good revenue.
Is it the three story, kind of
no elevator, 30 unit building?
Is it the 60 unit on five floors?
Is what in your, what's your
track record experience with that?
With what product sells the best and why?
Patrick McEvay: Oh gosh, yeah.
It, it is super dependent, so I can't
say there's, you know, we can't.
We can't paint it with
a broad brush stroke.
Um, you know, ev there are so
many different players that
play their own game within this,
within, you know, multifamily.
They like wanna
Scott Dempster: focus
on that type of product.
Yeah.
That type of product kind of thing.
Patrick McEvay: Totally.
Exactly.
Now, you know, I mean, if we were to
try to blend everything together Yeah.
I mean, like.
You know, when it gets down to
it, everybody wants something
that is producing great cash flow.
Scott Dempster: Mm-hmm.
Patrick McEvay: Uh, but yet
still has great upside, you know?
Mm-hmm.
So it's not fully maxed out that it, you
know, I can walk in day one and it's,
it's, uh, it's covering its own debt
and, uh, and, and, but yet, you know,
upon turnover, uh, of, of, of units,
uh, I'm gonna be able to raise rents and
increase my cash flow and improve it.
Um, and something that is.
Preferably in the path of development.
So it's sitting on some, you know, it's,
it's in a good location that is going
to continue to ripen and appreciate
that eventually down the road will,
uh, perhaps be looked upon as, you
know, favorable for redevelopment, um,
Scott Dempster: or higher
rent down the road too.
Right.
Depending on, on development around it and
things
Patrick McEvay: like that.
Right, exactly.
Exactly.
So.
It's, uh, you know, kind of fundamentally
those are the kind of the things that,
that a lot of people would be looking for.
Um, and, but you know, where and
what is, is largely just gonna
be dependent upon, you know.
Their own personal preference.
Scott Dempster: Anyone who has, uh, spent
time hanging around the Joe Forte's bar or
El Gino Bar or any of these other downtown
commercial broker watering institutions.
You hear the words cap rate a lot?
Patrick McEvay: Yeah.
Right.
Scott Dempster: Oh, cap rate.
Oh, it's got a four cap.
It's got a six cap caps, whatever it is.
Uh, break it down.
Patrick McEvay: So, capitalization
rate is, is the term, what
we've refer to as a cap rate.
And, uh, it's, as I say, it's just, it's
a reflection of, of the building's income
and, and cash flow, um, and performance.
So, uh, the, the basic math is you take
the revenue, so you take the rents.
So what you, you add up all of
your, your individual rents,
um, you, you annualize that.
So you multiply it by, by 12.
So you get your, your annual gross income.
Apply whatever vacancy or if
there's additional income to it.
You might have laundry income,
you might have, uh, storage
income and parking income.
So you get your revenue and
then you subtract your expenses.
So your, your basic operating expenses,
and this is where it gets a little
bit, you know, or more technical,
um, because, you know, you're,
you're looking at just the buildings
operations, so you're not including,
you know, things like your own, uh,
interest, you know, for, for financing.
Mm-hmm.
And there's certain
items that we would, uh.
Capitalize or we would take out of
an operation, uh, of a building.
But you know, that's, I,
I won't get into that.
But essentially what we're going for
is getting your net operating income,
so your revenue minus your expenses,
net operating income, your NOI.
And we take that and we multiply that,
uh, by, uh, well in, in, in reverse.
We take a, um.
We take, well, to get a cap rate, you
take the, your NOI, you multiply that
by, uh, by the, or divided by the
purchase price that produces a cap rate.
So you can use that in
reverse fashion as well.
By you, you take a market cap rate, so
you hear about properties, you know,
oh, they're trading for a 4% cap rate.
Um, and so when we're evaluating a
property, well, you take whatever
that market cap rate is, and
there's often a range of them.
And you would then, uh, you would
then apply that to the properties NOI.
Mm-hmm.
And that would then produce
roughly your purchase price or
your, your, your properties value.
So it works both ways.
So, you know, when we're looking at
comparable sales as, you know, just
the same way that you would in the
residential world, uh, you know, as
opposed to, or in the residential
world, you might be looking at, well,
what is your, you know, price per
square foot, or, uh, you know, any
number of different ways to look at it.
Off or not.
I mean, the, the, the
leading metric that, that we.
Use or, or look for is the cap rate.
'cause that's, again, you know, has to
do with the property's, uh, cash flow,
but it's not the only one, you know,
and there there's many, and again,
depending upon how you're approaching or
how you're looking at it, um, you know,
would depend on also, you know, what is.
The price per square foot of land or the,
the buildable, uh, square foot, uh, that
you can do, uh, price per net rentable,
uh, you know, your gross rent multiplier.
Another really basic one that is, is
certainly not sophisticated and, and, and
again, should not be used exclusively,
but is probably the easiest comparison
that we have to make when we're, you
know, just quickly comparing properties.
Is, is a price per unit.
Yeah, so just break it down.
So, you know, you got your, your
price, uh, divided by however many
number of units you got, you know, 10,
20, 30 units, and, uh, and then you
break that down into a price per unit.
And of course, that's
not created equal to.
Scott Dempster: What would you say?
And, and again.
If someone's to hire you for a
purchase of a multifamily, it's
gonna go off without a hitch.
But, um, what would you say is some, some
things that some buyers can, you know,
where there's oversight or they miss
Patrick McEvay: Yeah.
Uh, gosh, I'm trying to think if there's,
I, I can't see a commonality, I guess.
I mean, I, I like to say that we,
we, as listing agents do a, a good
job at, at, you know, uncovering all
those potential pitfalls that, you
know, if, you know nothing's perfect
by any means, but it's, it's about.
Disclosing them, you know, and, and
that's for the betterment of everybody.
It's, you know, it's, we, we don't
wanna hide the, you know, even just
the little details because I mean,
they will get uncovered, you know?
Yeah.
And, and just, you'd rather be upfront
about that going in and have, you know,
everybody be, have the same expectations
rather than the 11th hour of realizing,
oh shoot, yeah, this doesn't match
up, or this isn't what I expected.
Yeah.
The biggest deal killer for, for us, and I
think in this market is, is, is financing.
You know, I think it always has
been and probably always will be.
Um, you know, it is, and, and, but again,
you know, it's, uh, there, there are
a lot of other, um, ways, uh, and, and
reasons why, you know, a, a deal won't
come together or is easily overlooked.
And, I mean, yeah, the condition of
the building knows is number one.
Now, you know, again, most of the
time, you know, you should be going
into it with the understanding, you
know, this isn't, uh, this is not a
brand new car or anything like that.
These things are, you
know, usually old vintage.
Uh, well lived in and, uh, and, uh, you
know, uh, but often or not, they're,
you know, they've still been well
maintained and so, you know, as a buyer
you wanna make sure, well, okay, that
checks up and understand that Yeah.
There are gonna be things that I need to
do to reinvest and upgrade in the building
and just get a, you know, understand, you
know, you wanna create a budget for that.
Does the roof need to be replaced?
Does the windows need to be replaced?
Like these things cost, cost, money,
and you know, how much and when.
And, um, so, you know, those
are some of the boxes that
you definitely want to check.
Um, and, uh, yeah, I mean that's,
you know, and then goes to, you know,
one of the other big things too is.
Quite routine in any deal now
is, is just the environmental.
Um, so you know, a lot of these buildings
to get, especially to get CMHC financing,
you need an environmental report.
And more often than not, it's
just a box to be checked.
You know, it's just a piece of paper that
you know, you gotta deliver to the bank
to say, yeah, you know, the buildings.
Clean, um, 'cause it's not always, um,
the road to get that is not always,
uh, fast or cheap or easy because these
buildings often not, were built back in
the day when they still operated on oil.
You know, so those are underground
oil tanks, um, sometimes still
there, you know, and have never
been removed or even cleaned out.
Scott Dempster: Mm-hmm.
Patrick McEvay: Which
can be quite hazardous.
And, um.
Uh, you know, we often pump
the brakes right there.
You gotta deal with that.
Um, so, you know, whenever we're
approaching or bringing a property to
market, you know, always be diligent
and, and, and advising owners like,
go and go and investigate this now.
Like, you know, we, we, we, we can
look and understand, okay, well,
you know, do we suspect anything?
Okay.
And bring in the proper people to, to
either verify or validate that and,
and even go ahead and, and, and get
that environmental report done, right?
I mean, it's a couple
thousand dollars often or not.
That, um, inevitably the
buyer's gonna have to pay for.
Um,
Scott Dempster: so if you have an oil
tank, get your cousin to remove it in
the middle of the night, basically.
Patrick McEvay: Cool.
Scott Dempster: Yeah.
We bring it to market.
Patrick McEvay: We're
dealing with one right now.
It's, uh, it's amazing how
often it still happens.
And again, 'cause these buildings are, you
know, they've, they've often been owned,
uh, you know, I mean, sometimes, you
know, they, they, the family built them.
Yeah.
You know, back in the fifties
and the sixties and so.
You know, obviously they converted
from oil to gas at some point in
time, but they never had a reason to,
you know, decommission these things.
Scott Dempster: Do you do a fair bit
of off market or have you, or does
that not exist in kind of your sector?
Patrick McEvay: Oh no, it's,
uh, it's, it's absolutely, um,
a big part of our business.
Um, I'm trying to quantify that right now.
I mean, just this year.
Oh, just in the past couple weeks, we sold
two deals really, that were, that were off
market, you know, in, in some sense makes
the, the marketing process quite easy.
It's very targeted, but, um, you know, and
not to say that, that the rest of the deal
isn't, um, or again, keeping them honest.
And, uh, and in other cases, you know,
again, you know, it's, it's there, there's
a wide array of different properties
and, and different buyer profiles that
sometimes Yeah, it's, you know, no
different than, you know, a residential.
Property that, hey, you know,
you gotta expose this thing as
far and as wide as possible.
Scott Dempster: Um, I'm gonna
put you on the spot and ask you
kind of a speed round question.
Because I think a lot of people
look at these, you know, kind of
quintessential three, four story
walkup old school buildings, whether
it's in Kitano or North Vancouver or
Maple Ridge or Mission or whatever.
And you know, in conversations
with you, I've always been kind
of baffled at what some of these.
Properties sell for what they're
worth, that kind of thing.
So on an average, if we had one of
those four story buildings, let's call
it the walk up on the front with 40
units in it on a, what's the average
lot size for something like that?
Patrick McEvay: Uh, that would probably
be closer to like a hundred foot,
Scott Dempster: a hundred foot lot
Patrick McEvay: frontage.
Yeah.
Scott Dempster: On a hundred by
Patrick McEvay: 1 25, something
like
Scott Dempster: that.
A hundred by 1 25.
So kind of an average building,
if everyone can kind of
picture that in their head.
What is a typical building
like in, you know, 2025?
What does a typical building like
that sell in North Vancouver?
Like?
Patrick McEvay: Okay, so, so this
is where we would, we would break it
down to like a price per unit, right?
Yeah.
Kind of just get really simple with it.
And, uh, and just as, as kind of a first.
You know, bearing on, on, on values.
Scott Dempster: Yeah.
Patrick McEvay: And, um, and this, yeah,
that's kind of what the, the purpose
of a price per unit is just to kind
of give your, you know, first, first
kind of, you know, sense of, right.
Well, what does that range look like?
So, north Vancouver, I mean,
I, I can tell you point blank.
'cause when we have a, a 40 unit building
on the market right now, perfect for
Lonsdale, uh, that, um, you know,
we're right now in the market, I think
for like 3 70, 300 70,000 per unit.
Scott Dempster: Okay.
Patrick McEvay: Um.
And, uh, which, you know, might
be argued is probably just a bit
on the high side of, of where,
you know, the market is right now.
Scott Dempster: Okay.
Patrick McEvay: Um,
Scott Dempster: so was that boil out to,
in terms of a full offer price around,
Patrick McEvay: oh God, yeah.
It really put me on the spot here.
40 was that?
Let's, okay, let's, let's use a,
let's use a round number of 350,000,
which is, you know, north Vancouver
is kind of fair for right now.
And then we're a 40 unit building, 16.
Scott Dempster: Right.
Patrick McEvay: That's 14 million.
14. Yeah.
In, in values.
Um,
Scott Dempster: so let's pick up
that building from North Vancouver.
Yeah.
And let's put it in the West End.
What is it priced
Patrick McEvay: to?
Yeah.
And I mean, the West End traditionally,
you know, used to be one of the
highest priced, you know, most,
you know, it's, it's price.
Especially
Scott Dempster: for that type of product
Patrick McEvay: too, right?
Totally.
I mean, you know, it's, it's the West End
here, you know, your downtown Peninsula.
And, uh, it's, uh.
Uh, it's incredibly dense and generally,
you know, you'd have the, some of
the highest performing rents there.
Um, and, you know, you could be
selling a, you know, that same wood
frame walkup building in the west
end for as much as 500,000 per unit.
Scott Dempster: Okay.
Patrick McEvay: Um, back in the day
at the peak, uh, those buildings
now are certainly trading for.
I mean, you're lucky to get it in the four
hundreds and you know, it's, it's more
often or not, it's in the sub 400 a door,
uh, in the three hundreds, and even in
certain, I would say exceptional cases, as
of late, uh, we're seeing sub 300 a door.
I mean, so
Scott Dempster: why is that?
Patrick McEvay: Yeah.
And, and, and, and you know, the Westin,
I would say is, is the most drastic or
the most obvious, just because we've had.
Um, we've had a number of transactions
there to be able to see that
change and shift in the market.
Um, whereas in, in, in many other
markets, we know that's taking place.
We know that's the mentality behind
it, but we haven't, you know, there
simply hasn't been, uh, it hasn't been
as active, you know, or transactionally
speaking to, to see that shift.
'cause of course, you know, we have
to have transactions to actually
have the evidence to, to, to show
or to, to prove out the theory and.
The West End where there's been
quite a few transactions that
are, are proving that point.
And really, I think it's coming down
to, I mean, just, you know, the, the
mentality within, starting from the rental
market, you know, renters traditionally
at their west end was, you know, prized.
To, it was, it was, it was the most
sought after place to rent, you know,
it command some of the highest rents.
Well, you know, this is even new
over the past 10 years, that has
really shifted, you know, more
outside to, uh, other markets.
You know, a market like
North Vancouver has retained.
Its, uh, you know, it, its
demand and pricing because.
Tenants are choosing to
come to the North Shore.
I mean, just, you know, in general,
you know, whether they're a tenant
or you know, they're looking to buy.
Yeah, exactly.
That was, that was the case.
That's what I was gonna say.
You know, the trend, I, I think just
in general, whether yeah, it's, it's,
it is renters or, or homeowners, you
know, I mean obviously there's a massive
shift towards the North Shore, um, and,
uh, and, and, and that exodus out of.
Uh, you know, owe to the West End.
Um, and, and you know, not to say that
the West end isn't, isn't still desirable.
It absolutely is.
I mean, it still has, you know, great
rents and, and really low vacancies,
but probably just not less so in
comparison to, you know, maybe it's.
Uh, it's heyday.
Scott Dempster: It, the first question
I asked you, you know, what's the
state of the market in Vancouver in
terms of multifamily and presidential?
And you got a good answer for it.
Um, we know that the numbers aren't
strong, and you kind of touched on that
with the West End and other markets.
You know, the, the per door costs
have come off, um, in certain
areas, you know, substantially and
things like that are buyers more.
You know, just, uh, just a little bit
nervous with how many new, you know,
items and, and the restrictions as, as a
building owner or a property owner are.
And how many rights are given to tenants.
Do you, is it something
you deal with quite a bit?
Patrick McEvay: It's, so it's,
it's definitely taken some of the,
the luster out of, um, why someone
would choose to, to, to, to, to,
to get into it and, and, you know,
frankly, I mean, you know, they've.
They have encouraged, you know, some
of these policies have encouraged
many, uh, longtime owners to, to get
outta the game because, you know, yeah.
It's just, it's, uh, it's, it's
very hard to, to get by far.
It's probably, you know, I mean, you
know, I've been doing this for 15 years
and I've invested into it as well.
But, uh, you know, again, many of my
clients are, have been doing this for,
for a lifetime and, um, say that, you
know, it's, it's, it's the hardest
they've ever seen it, you know, uh, and,
and again, that, that's almost every
single level of, of government right now.
Crazy.
It's, uh.
It's very, very challenging
to, to, to be a landlord.
And, um, and so, you know, going
back to one of the questions you
had about, you know, why, why
are, why are some owners selling?
Well, yeah, unfortunately, that,
that, that is one of them, you know,
they're, they're looking to get out
of it just because it's, uh, yeah.
It's, it's, it's tough execute on 'em.
Scott Dempster: Yeah.
It's, it's, it's interesting with
the, uh, you know, the tenancy board
and um, residential tenancy board
and, uh, we, we see it a lot in our.
In our market too.
Mm-hmm.
Um, we've had clients buy, you know,
a three level home, you know, 4,000
square foot home and in the basement has
a two bedroom, one bath suite, right?
Patrick McEvay: Mm-hmm.
Scott Dempster: And, um, say,
okay, are you gonna rent the suite?
Probably get 2,400 bucks a month for
it, or whatever it may be, depending
on the area and things like that.
And, um.
As of late, I would say in the last 24
months, the common theme has been, Nope,
we're gonna short term rent it, we're
gonna do the license and everything.
Mm-hmm.
Through, mm-hmm.
You know, through the municipality.
Um, because of, you know, these
restraints that have been created,
Patrick McEvay: sometimes an empty unit
is worth more than a intended unit, which
is a wild concept when the whole purpose.
Of buying these buildings
was for the cash flow.
Well, you need tenants
Scott Dempster: heads and beds.
Patrick McEvay: Heads and
beds, paying rent Yeah.
To create that.
But when it comes at a cost of, you know,
the control and operations and all these
other impediments that, you know, the,
the levels of government have, have added.
Um, at the end of the day,
sometimes it's, it's not an asset.
It's a liability to have a tenant in that
unit depending upon what you're doing.
Scott Dempster: Well, this has been super
informative and I now know that you don't
just sell a bunch of condos at once, so.
Good.
I might
Patrick McEvay: still be
a little confused, but
Scott Dempster: I just kind of
blacked out for a second there
when you said what you did.
Um, but again, uh, I can't
thank you enough for coming on.
Super informative.
Um, super interesting just to hear
about that with obviously condos and,
uh, rental, you know, in Vancouver just
being such a huge, huge factor here.
Yeah.
Um, finally, I always like to say,
where can people get in touch with you
if they, if they do, if they're looking
for a multi-family building, if they're
thinking about, you know, selling one
or if they got someone else or that sort
of thing, where can they find Patrick?
Patrick McEvay: Yeah.
Well, I'm sure you'll drop the details.
Uh, you know, but, uh, yeah, of course.
Yeah.
I'd love to love to chat about this.
I mean, always, uh, always, uh, you know,
happy to chat about what's going on in the
market, so, you know, a phone call away,
um, and, uh, yeah, and or email, I mean.
Do you want me to drop
email or phone number or,
Scott Dempster: uh, just what
office they can find you.
Patrick McEvay: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, we're, yeah.
And we're downtown, so Yeah.
Often, uh, you know, uh, uh, love
to have a coffee too, you know.
Yeah.
We're, we're, we're down at Thurlow in
Georgia and downtown, and, uh, we're all
over the province, so, you know, if you're
thinking about whether it's Vancouver
or again, uh, you know, Vancouver
Island or the Okanagan, or even up, uh.
In all corners of the province.
You know, we, we, we, we do business
everywhere and so yeah, reach out.
Always happy to chat.
Scott Dempster: Awesome.
Well, thanks Patrick,
really appreciate it.
And, uh, I feel like this episode give
us a review, uh, create a following
and, uh, we'll catch you next time.
Thanks.
Thanks for hanging out with us.
And remember in Vancouver Real
Estate, nothing's off the table
and everything's negotiable.
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