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Welcome to the Opkalla IT Matters Podcast, where we discuss the important matters within IT as well as the importance of IT across different industries and responsibilities.
About Opkalla:
Opkalla helps their clients navigate the confusion in the technology marketplace and choose the technology solutions that are right for their business. They work alongside IT teams to design, procure, implement and support the most complex IT solutions without an agenda or technology bias. Opkalla was founded around the belief that IT professionals deserve better, and is guided by their core values: trust, transparency and speed. For more information, visit https://opkalla.com/ or follow them on LinkedIn.
Aaron Bock: Welcome to the IT
Matters podcast, hosted by
Opkalla. We're an IT advisory
firm that makes technology easy
for your business. Our
vendor-neutral technology
advisors work directly with your
team to assess technology needs
and procure the best IT
solutions for your organization.
On this podcast, expect
high-level expertise from our
hosts, plus experience-driven
perspective from the leading
experts on topics like AI,
cybersecurity, industry-focused
IT solutions strategy, and more.
Now let's get into today's
discussion on what matters in
IT.
Welcome back to the IT Matters
podcast. It's nice to be back.
It's been a few months. I know
Keith, my co-host, has been
doing a lot of the episodes
recently, so it feels good to be
back. We're recording this on a
Friday in April here in
Charlotte. We have not had rain
in about three weeks, so
everything is just covered in
pollen, so hopefully where
you're at, you're getting a
little bit more rain, and so
it's not as dry out there, and
luckily I'm recording this
inside, or else I would be
sneezing my ass off. So I hope
that you guys have been doing
well again. Thank you for always
listening to the podcast,
supporting us on whichever
platform you listen. Make sure
to subscribe and leave us a
review. There's been a lot going
on in the world, obviously,
since the beginning of 2026 it
has been busy here at Opkalla.
We're working on a new product
that we're going to be launching
later this year for all of our
customers and folks that we
know. So, we're excited about
that. AI and everything going on
with AI right now is keeping us
busy, and I know a lot of you
busy, so we have a lot to talk
about there. And it's just been
generally busy with the
uncertainty and what's going on
the economy, so very happy to be
taking a break today to record
this episode with a friend and
someone here in Charlotte. So,
without further ado, I'm going
to introduce Derek Jones, who's
here with us today. Welcome,
Derek.
Derek Jones: Welcome. Thank you.
Aaron Bock: Very nice to have
you. So, Derek spent the last
two decades with SYNCREON and DP
World, and he's risen to the
Vice President, Head of
Technology for America's leading
a 350 person IT organization.
He's been in exec leadership
roles, supporting teams across
North and South America, Europe,
Middle East, and Asia, and large
Fortune 500 enterprise global
customers with third-party
logistics and port operations
recently served as executive
vice president of technology
Flow Control, which is a
private, private equity-backed
distribution company. And then
Derek started his career in
operations, and that foundation
still shapes how he leads today
with an offensive lineman
mindset, and he can share a
little bit more about that. It's
a team first grounded in
fundamentals and focused on
execution, while continually
pushing teams to innovate and
raise the bar. Derek and his
family relocated to Charlotte a
couple years ago from Ontario,
Canada, and we are happy to have
him. So, Derek, thanks for
joining the It Matters podcast.
I know I've been excited about
this. We had the pre-call, and
we talked a little bit about
your background, but why don't
you take the first couple
minutes to just share your
background, a little bit more
about yourself with the
listeners.
Derek Jones: Thanks, Aaron,
appreciate the invite, and
excited to be here. Yes, we
relocated into Charlotte a
couple years ago, but long
career so far focused really
around how can it be a service
partner to the business. I was
very fortunate when I started my
career. I came out of college
and started as a materials
analyst, really shaped how I
understand and how I support my
customer, because for the first
several years of my role, I was
the customer I was supporting,
being supported by technology, I
was having to deliver for our
customers or end customers, and
having to understand what it
means when systems are
inefficient, unavailable, or not
adding value, and how does that
translate back to the bottom
line, so it's really been great
for me. I've been very fortunate
to have opportunities to
continue my growth, and then how
do I pay that forward and
continue to develop people along
the way, while still continuing
to innovate and grow the
business? Right, that's
ultimately where the offensive
lineman mindset comes in. We are
one part of a big unit, and you
need to continuously adapt. It
is not always the sexy function
within an operating business,
but ultimately you got to try
and make sure and deliver value,
so that you can show where your
company continues to grow. So
very excited to be here and
share some insights.
Aaron Bock: So before we get
into more of your background, so
we've talked about the offensive
lineman mentality twice, so
maybe share where did you play
offensive linemen and how long
did you play.
Derek Jones: Yeah, so I played
football for 11 years from. From
high school through, and I
played four years in Windsor,
Ontario, Canadian football with
three downs, a wider field, a
bigger ball. It's a little bit
different, but played for what
was at the time the AKO for
Atman, is now Sinclair College,
and I was a center and a guard.
Again, I'm not the tallest. I
was six feet tall and 285 at the
time. You had to win every rep
and make sure that you were not
always going to have a perfect
technique. You're not always
going to have the perfect play
drawn up, but it's about
execution, blocking and tackling
wins football games, and you got
to be able to grind through in
23 years of working, I've missed
a day and a half because there's
no excuse, you have to get the
job done, no matter what.
Aaron Bock: An unsung hero on
the football field and an unsung
hero in companies, as you
mentioned, it before we leave
the football topic, what do you
think of NIL? In a couple
thoughts.
Derek Jones: Yeah, it's a great
opportunity for you to try and
focus on the positive. There's
been a lot of players that have
been only given opportunities at
a smaller school, and now that
there's better opportunities for
them to continue to shine
brighter. Cam Skattebo, a couple
years ago, was, you know,
started off at a junior college
or started off at a small
school, and was able to progress
his way. And again, that's that
doesn't mean that he had to turn
into a first round draft pick,
but he has his brand stock went
up because he had that exposure,
and he became an NFL player, and
we've seen a lot of that in the
last couple years, where it's
not just about the guy that was
a freshman making, you know,
however million dollars. How
about the University of Michigan
that just won the national
championship with a bunch of
transfers from, in many cases,
from smaller schools or had less
opportunity?
Aaron Bock: Yeah, it's a good
perspective, it's, it's
definitely changing the way the
sports and like the recruiting
works, but I do think it
provides a lot more opportunity
for those who are playing, and
then go back, so you know, you
said that you came out, you were
an operational role, and then
you, you know, obviously have
had a lot of success in it, what
drew you to the IT industry, and
being in it, if you will, from
what you started in.
Derek Jones: Yeah, so I went to
school for IT. I went to
Sinclair College, and that was
always.. I took apart my
family's computer when I was
seven, and gradually back in the
day that was always something
interesting, you could build and
create and come up with creative
solutions, and let technology be
an enabler. So that was always
the goal. But when I graduated
from school, I needed something,
and sometimes that's that's the
wherever you start doesn't have
to be where you finish. So
trying to get opportunity has
been a theme throughout my
career, is whether it's for
myself, but more importantly,
for my teams, like it starts
with opportunity and a leader
who believes in you, and
somebody that's going to give
you the chance to shine, and how
do you untap all those
potentials, so the intrigue and
continuing to evolve even across
my IT career, I didn't just
stick in one area. I've led
solutions teams for software,
I've led infrastructure teams.
It's always been around service
delivery back to our internal
customer or supporting external
customers. So, gaining that
perspective across the entire
field of IT has been invaluable
for me.
Aaron Bock: You went to school
for it, you know, not, not in
the last 10 years or whatever,
but you know, get you or you
were intentional about coming
into the IT industry. Do you
think that it's easier or harder
to get into it now? And kind of,
what do you, what would you say
to a recent graduate or a high
school student thinking about
it?
Derek Jones: So, depending on
the space, the challenge that I
have had this conversation with
some high school and recent
college graduates is you can't
expect to walk into the field
necessarily and jump straight
into this mature technology
role. You have to either have a
very technical skill set that
translates well direct in, for
example, the network
engineering, or in a very
technical space where you become
a technical expert, but more
often than not, especially if
you want to grow within the
business you're at, is
understanding the business, and
then how to apply technology
after that. So, there's very
much different tracks. I would
say, if you're going to be a
software developer and you want
to stay in that space, you know,
there's a very technical path to
go that route. If you want to be
a CIO. Or if you want to work in
a space where you're impacting
change and driving
transformation, it's less
important to have had a strictly
technical background. In fact,
that broader background where
you have a lot of different
experiences you can combine
together actually ends up
translating more value.
Aaron Bock: Yeah, and I think
that's true. I mean, I think it
depends on what you want to do.
If you want to be an IT leader,
the business, the broad
experience, managerial
experience, but if you want to
be a very detailed architect,
enterprise architect, network
architect, like that's a
different path. So, agree with
you. You talked about
transformation, we talked about
it in your opening, you just
mentioned it in the last
statement that you made. So,
curious, like, you've been a
part of large, you know, 350
person plus teams doing
enterprise transformations, and
so, you know, what's in it, I
guess, a what's experience
you've had that you can share
that that kind of shapes how you
think about it, leadership, and
just leadership in general from
those transformations?
Derek Jones: The number one
benefit, let's call our number
one intention coming out of a
transformation is being clear
about what's the direction, is
there is there enough
stakeholders that buy into the
message, what are you actually
trying to deliver, and whether
your organization's 50 people,
three 350 people in the IT
department. I've worked in
organizations that had 3000
people or 120,000 people having
a clear vision and intention on
what is the outcome that we're
expecting. What does good look
like at the end of this? And
then let's figure out together
and get the stakeholders bought
in on how to drive that buy-in.
If you can get people bought
into the intention and the end
result, your creative should be
coming out from that space and
getting people to contribute to
those opinions, pull in
information from various
sources, whether that's
experience, new technologies,
and innovations, and then
lessons learned. Right, we've a
lot of these experiences and
transformations will fail
because if we're not, if we're
keeping blinders on and we just
want to see what's in front of
us, you're not going to learn
the lessons of what went wrong.
So, continuing to adapt and
evolve, I think the biggest
thing I've had to learn from
this is it's not always about
the right technical solution. Is
the business ready for it? Is
there enough people bought in?
Is the investment time now, or
can this be phased in where
you're going to see the value?
Aaron Bock: and you mentioned
keeping up and evolving, so I
want to come back to what you
just said in a second, but just
what I mentioned in my opener,
everything's changing. I mean,
every week you read the news,
you read some article, and you
see all these new platforms out,
etc. and a lot of it's AI, but
how is an IT leader? Do you keep
up with the pace of change? And
then maybe the second part to
the question is, it's like, you
know, being focused on the
business and it, there's a
balance, but what happens to an
IT leader if they're not keeping
up and evolving with the pace of
change of technology? Like,
what's your take on it?
Derek Jones: Yeah, well, Well,
if you're not keeping up with
technology and evolving with
your business, you're soon not
going to be in it. The reality
is that any business and the
technology that's changed, even
in the last six months, with
capabilities that have come out
of whether it's AI or just
leveraging new opportunities to
connect products, that's frankly
the where, where I see the
biggest value is if you want to
try and drive true innovation,
trying to drive true change,
it's balancing what is the
capability now, what, how long
do I have to implement it? Can I
continue to iterate and grow
that with the new technologies
ahead? And to answer the
question of how do you stay up
to date, it's very easy to get
distracted every week. There's
going to be something new.
Trying to be balanced and
anchored into what is the
business trying to do? How can I
help drive technologies and
capabilities that support not
only the business as it is
today, but being a strategic
leader, thinking three years,
five years, and then beyond? How
can these technologies, even at
their nascent state, how can
they continue to grow and
support and add value to the
business, and it's working with
partners. Ultimately, it's part
of a team. Everyone's going to
have input, and if you can
present ideas and capabilities
and potentials, getting people
bought into the idea, and then
being comfortable with failing
fast, there are opportunities
out there that are not going to
turn out. But if you commit
yourself to irreversible
decisions, you're going to fail,
and you're not going to have the
opportunity to learn from those
lessons. So, it's making sure
there's balancing. Can you get
80% of the way there? Can you
leave standard 80 and then
variation for 20? If you spend a
lot of time focusing on the 5%
that isn't aligned, you're
likely going to lose the values.
Just try to stay practical as
well, without getting caught up
around the technology,
Aaron Bock: and you've talked a
few times about knowing the
business to be able to make
better technology decisions. So
I'm going to ask you kind of a
situational question, because
I'm sure this has happened,
right, but there are leaders,
and I've seen great leaders in
the IT space who encourage their
folks to go get involved, shadow
business users, shadow like, and
understand the business. But
let's just say that tomorrow
you're going into an enterprise
where you have a four 300 400
person IT team, and you start to
realize, like, hey, some of
these folks don't really
understand the business, and
they don't - it's not that they
don't want to - they just
haven't had the opportunity or
been encouraged to do that. What
are ways that you would try to
start getting those folks to
understand the business to be
able to make that better
decisions? And what are some
successful, like, suggestions
you would give to others that
have to do this.
Derek Jones: Yes, that's that's
a great question. And especially
in this remote world now, where
we've got technology leaders
everywhere, it's really hard.
There's still a value of a
handshake, there's still a value
of walking that mile in another
person's shoes. So, what I've
generally had to do when I've
had to adapt to the new
industries or into new
businesses that companies
acquired is go walk a mile, go
meet people where they're at.
You'd really love for them to
buy into your idea right from
the jump, but that's that's not
realistic. You need to get that
cultural buy-in on where you
want to operate, how you want
the technology to evolve, and
meet people where they're at
now. And how can you provide
some iterative solutions to help
not only gain trust but start to
understand their perspective?
What problems are you dealing
with every day? You can't just
throw money at every problem.
How can we make the solution a
little easier for you to do your
job and deliver value back to
your customer? How can I help,
whether it's an operational
person or the marketing team or
the sales organization? A lot of
times it's just listening and
understanding what problem are
we solving, and then hey, we've
got some experienced people that
can help deliver that value, is
it quality of data, is it
processes that are more
efficient. How can we help again
get let's get 80% value started,
and the rest will continue to
improve and iterate as you get
more experience, and again, if
you're going to only be solving
one problem every day, that's
that's still improvements, 1%
better every day, at least.
Aaron Bock: Even more
specifically than that, you
know. So, say I'm a, I'm a level
two help desk, or I'm some lower
level role in an IT
organization, and you
acknowledge and understand as a
new leader, hey, these folks
don't really understand the
business in order to be
successful. Do you like, have
you set up programs, or have you
seen any programs where it's,
it's successful helping that
level of a person get more
integrated with the business? Is
it, is it, you know, you said
walking a mile in someone's
shoes, is it shadowing, is it
peer group meetings, or, you
know, how do you, how do you
encourage that understanding and
knowledge of the business?
Derek Jones: So it's a bit of
both. When I've worked in the,
in the logistics space, where
we've had, you know, the
customers on the ground at a
warehouse or in an assembly
plant, and they need to see
what's happening with their
eyes, ears, and understand.
Let's go pick parts for a little
bit. Let's go understand the
perspective from the other side.
What happens when they say
something doesn't work? You're
not always going to get a
perfect answer in the way you're
expecting it. So, learning how
to decipher what did they mean
by that. The screen did this,
especially at a level two role,
best case scenario for us was
always finding somebody that was
in level one. Let's progress
them to level two, and then
continue beyond. But having
somebody that has that customer
service focus that can read
between the lines at times, and
then validate. Right, we don't
want to just assume that you
have the answer to every
question, check with the user,
verify, and then if you need to
be physically present somewhere,
if you can't, a picture, a video
says 1000 words, and be
empathetic to the person on the
other end of the line, they have
an emergency, they can't do
their job, even something is.
Simple, as my keyboard doesn't
work, seems trivial, but when
somebody can't work, it's a
major issue. So, something to
the level of understanding how
the service organization is
structured. If you're going to
have that hub and spoke model,
everybody within the link chain
together have to understand the
dependency of each other, but
still remain focused on who is
who is my customer. What are
they trying to do, and how can I
help them?
Aaron Bock: Yeah, you've had a
lot of success over the years,
and so you've built teams,
you've come in and been a part
of teams that were already
built, and then you're changing
them. Let's go, let's just say,
compared to 10, five or 10 years
ago, say you're coming in as the
leader or a leader or top
leader, etc. in it, and you're
building a team in the
enterprise, or you know,
mid-market, etc. How do you
build an IT team in a service
organization today differently
than you did five or 10 years
ago? What's what's changed the
most in from your perspective,
where you, where would you coach
others to say, like, this is how
it's different than it used to
be?
Derek Jones: It's a great
question. Some of the challenge
right now is just because of the
velocity of change, having
people that have the capability
of learning quickly. The old
days of I went to school for
this, and I'm going to target to
do this career for the next 40
years. It's, it's rapidly
evolving, because some of those
roles may not exist. So, if you
can find someone that has
multiple skills, you know, we
call, you know, multiple sport
athletes, they can do a lot of
different things in the
technical technology space. You
want people that have multiple
skill sets, and then
complementing them with
technical expertise, right? So,
you can't just have all
technical experts, you can't
just have all operational-minded
people. There really needs to be
that delicate balance, and then
supplementing that with
technology, whereas years ago it
was finding someone that had an
x number of years experience in
a certain product. Can they
integrate that product across
your existing stack? You can't
rewrite every to every product
that comes out. You can't just
rip and replace. So, how do you
continue to be more multiple,
evolving with what you have, and
then evolving the next
technology spend that you're
going to bring in, let the data
work together, let the
integrations work together to
really get the best value. So
the people side of things is
important, but the ability to
learn first.
Aaron Bock: Yeah, I this, we
didn't talk about this in the
pre-call, but something I've
heard from a lot of IT leaders
over the last couple years is
with the with the rise of AI
tools for resume building and
you know certifications, etc.
Red, when they have a position
open, let's say a more technical
position they need to fill, the
resume pool is so much harder to
go through and really figure
out, does this person have the
experience, or are they using
tools that make them look like
they have the experience, and so
to your point, my opinion from
that, and my, the only, the only
thing that you can do, I think,
is really try to assess the
person in an interview and
assess, do they have the chops
to understand the business? Are
they technical? Do they actually
know how to do the things
they're saying they're doing?
And then do they kind of have it
and want it, and will will work
as a team. So that's from my
perspective. What I see you
changing gears a little bit, but
you just talked about it. We
were saying how things are
moving fast, things are
changing, everything's evolving
in technology. We talked about
this on the pre call a lot, you
know. It leaders are being
forced to make decisions every
day. They have to make more
decisions now than they did
theoretically 10 years ago,
because more things rely on it,
and you can define that however
you want. But how, as a leader,
how has your decision making
changed, knowing that things are
changing faster, and so, like,
traditional frameworks may go
out the window. What are you
doing differently when you're
making decisions, whether it's
on a tech, a person, an
offering, a project, etc.
Derek Jones: So I think that
where we as leaders have to
remain grounded is not to get
too caught up in what the tech
looks like, how do we make sure
that there's value at what
again, what good looks like
starts that process, and what's
the cost of that, but again
every organization should have a
clear understanding of what
their strategy is, and then how
does this decision impact that
strategy? Is this something I've
typically tried to start with?
What's the organizational
strategy? Do we have the people
to execute it? Do we have. A
process that we can support
those people and that strategy,
and where does the technology
come in after that? Because the
reality is there's always going
to be another option. There's so
many different capabilities out
there, whether it's a product
offering or just a methodology
of doing something, and for the
most part it's going to be
similar, right, product to
product, especially in the large
enterprise space. There's a lot
of capabilities that that
they're all going to have, but
which one fits your
organizational strategy? Which
one has the ability to be
adaptable, so that if you do
change something within your
organizational stack, you're not
having to rip and replace, so
doing that extra bit of
research, having the support
from your team, so if the people
that are in your team buy into
whatever it is you're, and
hopefully the suggestions coming
from them, ultimately I want to
be able to say yes or no at the
end, because they've bought into
the strategy and they understand
business needs and they're
bringing together a suggestion,
and that's going to have some
optionality too. It can't be
ever just this is the only
solution, we have to bypass
everything and just go buy it.
What's option A, B, and C?
Aaron Bock: Yeah, well, on that
specifically, like you said,
fail fast earlier, and give you
know, give your teams the
ability to make decisions, and
then you said optionality.
There's there could be
optionality. How do you, as a
leader, empower your team to do
that without creating chaos?
Derek Jones: I think the best
thing, the most important thing
is, do we have a clear
understanding of what was the
objective right at the beginning
of that process, we should,
there should be a clear
alignment, whether that's in a
documented write-up or is its
concepts again. What, what's the
customer asking for? What's the
deliverable look like? And then
having the ability to consider
what those options are, and
which one is the best fit. The
old analogy of, you know, you
get, you get speed, quality, and
price pick too. You don't always
get to have that choice as
easily as you would like, and
it's always going to be a push
pull with the business. So,
while you may have the best
technical decision, it doesn't
fit for the timeline. So, can
your teams and can your
stakeholders, especially, do
they understand where that push
pull needs to take place? Is
there a compromise available
that's the best fit in the short
term? And then can that
optionality kick in later on,
where you are going to grow it.
You may have a critical business
need right now, and you've got
to make the imperfect decision,
but it's the best decision for
what the business needed that
moment. It's a lot more
difficult if that's a decision
that can't be either unlocked or
changed out later on. You're
making a long-term decision
right away, so you'd rather have
something with some options and
be able to at least evolve with
the business, because it's never
a linear path.
Aaron Bock: So we talked about
this, but you're kind of hitting
it, decision making, you may
have to just make decisions and
know where your optionality is
in the future. Right now, you
know, I've mentioned it in my
opening, and just with the pace
of AI, there's a lot of things
changing, and I think a lot of
people feel pressure, and so
from your perspective, like I
see leaders being pressured into
making decisions around AI
because of a board meeting or
conference or whatever, and so
let's talk about AI, maybe a
little bit from your perspective
as an enterprise, like how how
real is the pressure right now
for an IT leader to select AI,
implement AI. Do you think that
it's a real, like, hey, we got
to do this now, or do you think
it's being more of a
manufactured sense of urgency
that's happening?
Derek Jones: It's certainly
real, depending on the type of
business. If you're in a product
space where you're delivering
software or you're selling
something that's
customer-facing, having AI
capabilities is something that
could very easily improve the
product that the customer wants
to buy. When you look at it
from, let's say, the operational
side of things, there are
capabilities that were not there
in the past, the legacy systems
that required a lot of hand
holding and touching and driving
these things forward. The
evolution of AI has allowed some
really incredible things, but
they only will get unlocked when
the people know how to use it.
That there is something
distinctly yours that you can
add value back in. Let me see if
I can rephrase that differently.
Where I think there's a desire
across some of the noise around
AI is that there's got to be an
expectation of immediate return,
and that's not always realistic.
I think understanding how can
you deliver value back to
individuals. Tools, let's call
it a productivity enhancement,
something as simple as, you
know, the co-pilots of the
world, where you're improving
meeting notes and you're
improving summarizing data,
that's great, but that's not the
exclusive piece of AI. It also
doesn't mean that you're
replacing people and replacing
their jobs. You, we need to
augment capabilities and raise
the floor, and there are some
real capabilities that AI,
whether it's in the generative
space, but for in the industry,
especially the power of the
data. If you don't have a good
data governance strategy,
throwing AI at it right now is
not going to be helping you very
much. Now, AI can help cleanse
some of the data, but you need
to have a very structured way of
making sure you have a clean
source data. The genealogy,
where'd that come from? What
does it mean, and how does it
match up as you start
integrating other data sources?
So, there are tremendous
capabilities, but having that
governance structure, having
something that can scale
properly, and you don't need a
one size fits all solution.
There's different horses for
courses. I had a boss used to
tell me that there's a way for
us to try and apply a copilot
and apply a clod. The technology
team may have a different
internal usage than your
marketing department versus the
HR team versus someone that's
running a warehouse, they're all
have usage cases, and making
sure you don't try and one size
fits all all of those different
stakeholders.
Aaron Bock: There's horses for
courses. I love that. I have
never heard that, but I am going
to start using that. I agree
with what you said. I think you
have to look at each thing
individually. I think the tough
thing is that the, you know, and
I shared this with you about
some of the things we're doing.
My pressure as a leader is, are
we making the right decision
because it's changing so fast,
and so you commit to something
that's going to change in three
months, have you already made
the wrong decision? So, curious,
a couple questions on that for
you, because you know an
enterprise or a large
organization can't change as
fast as a small organization. So
take an enterprise organization
that's looking to implement AR
AI, or figuring out how do we
use it, how do you help the
business understand whether they
should even invest in an AI
investment, or like, what's your
methodology for helping a
business leader understand
what's possible? Where, hey,
this is a waste of time.
Derek Jones: Yeah, the reality
is it's still going to start
back at what problem are we
solving? Right, you can throw
money at the problem, and hope
that you're going to get a sexy
new overlay, and hopefully
people are going to buy into it,
but if they don't understand
where's the value, and that can
be something they don't realize
yet, right? The you need to be
able to show them the art of the
possible, and that will start
spurring some of that innovation
on their side, but there are I
think one of the challenges,
especially across enterprise, is
how do you, where do you get
started, and if your first
project that you want to drive
with AI is this gigantic
transformational change, you're
probably going to struggle,
unless you're bringing in a
really good partner, and you
have a really good business
case, and you have some
practical usage cases where
you're going to start getting
some gains quickly. You have to
have both start identifying
through working with
stakeholders where are the pain
points in your organization.
What are some of the
capabilities that AI has done so
far? And then where do we see,
as it leaders, we should be able
to forecast a little bit where
those benefits are trending, but
knowing your business first and
foremost, trying to apply a
technology that doesn't fit is
going to end up wasting
resources, and more importantly,
wasting time, and you can't get
that back, you've got people
every organization is struggling
to do more with less, so if we
can figure out how to augment
the people we have and get more
calories out of what's of that
time and gain and drive
innovation faster, that ends up
again that continued evolution
where we're going to gain more,
that doesn't mean that we can't
have large scale projects. I
believe in driving the
opportunity for scale, and you
need to have interconnecting
pieces. All of your platforms
need to be able to talk with
each other, and if you have
multiple data sets, you're going
to have fragmentation. AI is not
necessarily going to help that.
It needs to start from a clean
base, and that may take some
long-term investment for you to
make that initial investment,
and clean up your data, clean up
your data sources, and
consolidate, but if you don't
have a clear end goal in mind,
you may end up wasting a lot of
time. Time, and money, and not
be, not be around
Aaron Bock: You touched on a
very debated point right now
about fragmentation. I want to
double click on so some people,
there's two sides. Some people
feel we're going to move to
consolidated platform, and
you're going to have AI agents
sit on top of it, and sort of
everything will consolidate, and
you'll have agents that are
running off it. Some people feel
no, you can leave your data in
segmented, fragmented places,
and then the AI agents can be
the connector. Where do you, in
an especially in enterprise, it
like, do you feel that it's tech
is trending towards more
platform-based solutions that
you can then kind of do the
former on, or do you feel like
it's trending towards best of
breed single function systems
and tools that you would then
use AI across like a layer in
between? How do you see it if
you had to guess, or what you
know?
Derek Jones: Yeah, well, I think
from a product perspective, a
lot of the large organizations
want to have integrated
platforms, and that they can
sell, you know, without specific
names. You want to be able to
have that vertical integration.
If you're a product company,
again, How can we get more piece
of the more share of that wallet
from a from a consumer side or
from the business side of
things, where we're buying that
capability and learning and
leveraging it for our business,
the reality is you're always
going to have tech debt as soon
as you, whether you're in an
acquisition side of things or
you're trying to grow your
business, organic growth is only
going to go so far, if you've
got to do some inorganic growth,
you're going to have integral
legacy platforms that some
pieces may be non-negotiable. It
security is an example. You need
to protect your perimeter.
You've got to make sure that you
don't have that leakage. You've
got to make sure that you're
securing any entry points and
protect, protect your core
assets, but you're not
necessarily going to be able to
right away integrate ERPs and
other systems. How can you
leverage some of the AI
capabilities and data
capabilities where you're still
pulling that data in, operating
it through that cleanse,
integrating it into the overall
overlay of your organization,
right? So, creating a platform
that doesn't necessarily need
perfect to operate again. Do you
have a good intention around
what your AI is producing? Do
you have data that can help,
good data that's going to feed
into it, that's going to make it
more valuable? So, I would guess
I would expect that long term
it's always going to be focused
on again around that
optionality. If you don't have a
system that can adapt to where
your business is going, and I
expect AI is going to continue
to drive that, both on the
product side and on the business
too. But you've got to be able
to deliver value.
Aaron Bock: One other question
on that, because you said you
know how AI is going to affect
business, etc. How do you see
like product teams, network
teams, individual teams within
IT organizations? How do you see
that changing over time? Like,
do you do you think we're going
to be talking to a team with an
AI coworker? Like, how do you
see the next five to 10 years
play out?
Derek Jones: Yeah, I mean,
that's that's what we're seeing
right now, where again the life
of the coder is going to evolve.
The reality is that some of
these AI platforms can write
really sophisticated code in a
short amount of time, and if
it's going to write really good
code, then you're not going to
need as much QA. I would hope
that you know if your
organization is going to
continue to scale upwards, you
can automate some of the testing
on the network side of things,
threats identification,
leveraging changes and
deployments across your
ecosystem, those are all things
where you can add a layer of
automation, but as well some of
that intelligent automation to
secure your business. Again, do
more with less. I would expect
the IT person of the future
needs to know how to leverage AI
as a capability tool set, but
it's not I, in my view, you, you
cannot also lose that personal
touch, that understanding of the
business, because at some point
you've got to start somewhere if
you only want to have 20 year
experienced developers and then
a bunch of, you know, AI agents
that sit over top when that
person retires, you're going to
be stuck. So, you've got to
still continue to have the
correct balance of talent,
people power, understanding the
business, and, and then, as
well, you're not going to. Able
to have as many people as you
want, is AI or automation going
to help supplement? Does it
using consultancy or contractor
resources that can help you know
focus on when you have a burst
capacity or you have a specific
knowledge that you don't have in
your team? That's where using a
partner like Opkalla, like
others who can help fill the gap
for you?
Aaron Bock: Yeah, we got to wrap
up here. So, two final
questions, because I think this
has been great, and I think
you've shared a lot of
perspective for anyone
listening. Encourage you to
connect with Derek, just because
he's got the experience. But two
final questions: What's a
decision that UC IT leaders
having to make, or they're going
to be making in the next couple
- we'll call it next year - that
you think they may regret, or
regret not making. What's a
decision that you see that is
going to be a tough one for a
lot of folks?
Derek Jones: Yeah, if you
haven't already made the
investment into the security
side, you're already behind. It
is clear that, as we're seeing
the evolution across these
agents, that there's going to be
a shift very quickly on moving
to more automated agent type
processing, and how those
hardware platforms interface
with AI at the end of the day.
If you're supporting a business,
understanding what they're
trying to do, making sure that
you're staying ahead of the game
with those core principles in
place, good data, good
processes, good people. If you
try and make a decision on
selecting a platform and doing
an all-in-one, whoever your
investment platform, or whoever
your platform you choose is, you
better hope it's one that can
stay involved with the business
too. I think trying to one size
fit all everything ends up being
a challenge, depending on the
scale of the business. In a
smaller business, it makes a lot
of sense, because you may not
have the capability or the
people power to have best in
breed solutions for everything,
but realizing where's your
business headed. What's your
organizational strategy, and do
you have partners along the way?
Invest in those principles and
understand where's the value
going to be. Where's your
organization heading? So core
principles, security, data
governance, get good teams that
that learn that learn quickly
and fail fast, making sure that
you're not over investing into
one platform, you know, even
even storage solutions, a capex
investments going to be a
challenge, knowing where do you
want to invest in something that
has a lifespan, or if you've got
a smaller business, can you
leverage some of these shared
services, or leveraging cloud
wherever it can to help evolve
your business, but modernizing
your stack, because there are a
lot of legacy platforms out
there right now that are going
to quickly start to show their
age when there isn't anyone
supporting them or there's no
platforms that can integrate
with them, so being able to
really have an eye on where's
the future heading and do your
platforms support it and how to
integrate with what's coming.
Aaron Bock: Yeah, I agree with
that. You kind of answered this
already throughout the podcast,
but my last question for you,
Derek, because this has been
great, is what's a piece of
advice you would give someone
younger in their career, or
switching careers, or in IT, and
trying to figure out if they
want to be an IT leader. From
your experience that you've had
over the years, what's a piece
of advice you'd leave for the
listeners.
Derek Jones: I I would, I mean,
if there's an understanding of
where you want to go, I mean,
there's certainly some
industries right now that seem
like they're going to be more
prosperous in the short term,
but just going back to what we
talked about in the beginning.
Ultimately, any individual
person has got to be able to
outwork and set the bar high. If
you don't understand how hard
you have to work to be
successful nowadays, focus on
that. Be the best at your
current job, where there's no
one else that can question where
you're at. If you're at the
management layer, we had this. I
had this conversation with
someone the other day. You're
not always going to get promoted
as quickly as you think you
should. How can you be a
solutions-oriented person and
figure out where can you add
value? Volunteer to do that next
thing. Think whether you're a
young person in the technology
space or an experienced leader,
I still throw my hand up
constantly, trying to offer,
where can I help, what can I do,
where can I learn more, where
can I apply my knowledge, and
where can I pick something up
that otherwise wouldn't have,
wouldn't have seen, so just that
eagerness and that willingness
to do more than other people,
right. You've got to be able to
work and grind your way to
success sometimes. So, no matter
what, it's not always about
being an expert in the specific
tech, but how can you apply it?
So, invest in yourself, invest
in your team, and be a team
player, and you're gonna win
half the battle there.
Aaron Bock: Yeah, I think it's a
great, great lead behind. And if
you didn't learn anything from
Derek on this, connect with him,
because he's a wealth of
knowledge. I learned horses for
courses today, so love, love
that quote. But Derek, thank you
for joining the It Matters
podcast, and for sharing with
us, we always appreciate love
learning from folks like you.
So, thank you for being on. For
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