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Interviewing indie founders about their journey and their products. itslaunchday.com
Dagobert (00:02)
Hey, Ahmet. Is it Ahmet? Is that how I should say it? didn't even ask. Yeah, okay. Welcome to launch day.
Ahmet (00:05)
Yes, that's correct.
⁓ I'm happy to be here.
Dagobert (00:12)
Yeah, I need to find maybe a better way to say hi, because every time people are like, okay, yeah, I need to find a better intro, but I'm just starting. And it's my first recording of the day, so I'm gonna be a bit rusty for like five minutes. ⁓ But anyway, you were saying before this that you are in Estonia, right? Okay. So how is it for you, like...
Ahmet (00:34)
Yes.
Dagobert (00:41)
How is entrepreneurship in Estonia? How is it? It seems like it's quite easy, but yeah.
Ahmet (00:46)
Yeah, actually,
I think this is one of the best places in Europe to start a company. ⁓ I discovered Estonia when they launched their e-residency program. So basically, if you are a non-EU citizen, and if you wanted access to the European market or European payment gateways like Stripe, ⁓ even PayPal, it's not available in Turkey, actually. So it's a huge problem for Philan.
freelancers and indie hackers.
Dagobert (01:17)
So you're not
from Estonia, you're from Turkey. I didn't know that.
Ahmet (01:20)
Yes, I am originally from
Turkey. I moved here back in 2019 with the startup visa. And this is a program that the Estonian government has launched to attract, you know, ⁓ bright minds and ⁓ actually boost their economy. Estonia is a tiny nation of only 1.3 million people. ⁓ But whatever they invested into this program, into this
start-up Estonia program, they got back 203 times more on that. So that's a huge return on investment for them. And it's a win-win for everyone. So as an entrepreneur, you get access to Europe and they get access to smart people.
Dagobert (02:09)
Yeah, mean, ⁓ wow, that's awesome. Because I was in Turkey last year ⁓ with a couple of entrepreneur friends and it seemed not that bad for entrepreneurship. Like, can you explain what was it that was really annoying or something? Maybe just access to Europe was the most important? I don't know.
Ahmet (02:27)
⁓
Of course, yeah, that's one thing, but you don't have Stripe, you don't have PayPal. No. ⁓
Dagobert (02:34)
you don't have Stripe? I had no idea.
You have maybe to create like a US LLC or something for that.
Ahmet (02:39)
Yes, yes,
you have to incorporate somewhere else. Actually. A lot of things are not available. I guess these days, maybe it's getting a little bit better, but I mean, the Turkish government is very high on bureaucracy. ⁓ Taxes, you know, are taxes, but Estonia has really this unique system where you don't pay any tax on retained income. So let's say your company makes money. ⁓
actually you're not liable for any corporate tax. You can just keep all of that and invest that back into your business. So that's a huge boost for you when you're trying to build something from scratch.
Dagobert (03:24)
Yeah, I mean, being in France where we have the highest, one of the highest taxes on everything, I'm like, yeah, that sounds nice, you know, not having any, ⁓ my God, ⁓
Ahmet (03:34)
Yeah. Yes. And it's
not just about the taxes. mean, it's the whole mindset now, like they are a digital society. So everything is done online. They can vote online. They can do their taxes online. There is never a need to file something on paper. There are no red signatures. Everything is digital and it's been this way for like decades now. So, you know, it's all established.
Dagobert (03:58)
Yeah, yeah.
And was it easy for you? mean, easy, like, how was the process? Like, as a Turkish citizen, how did you do that?
Ahmet (04:08)
Mm-hmm. So,
so they're using deal room. Basically they have this young group of people that vet these startups. Obviously they're not going to green light any business idea. It has to be a startup. And their definition is that it needs, your idea needs to have ⁓ growth to expand globally and scale like infinitely, whatever that means. Yes. You.
Dagobert (04:31)
so you have to present your idea for them to...
Okay, you cannot just be like... Okay.
Ahmet (04:37)
You basically fill out. ⁓
Yes, you send your pitch deck in and you show your product. If you have something tangible, guess nowadays they change the requirements. They actually need something you can show. ⁓ And they look at it. They look at your business idea. And if they are happy with it, then you just get a residence permit. That's it. Really.
Dagobert (05:02)
And so when was that that you moved?
Ahmet (05:05)
This was 2019 actually I moved here.
Dagobert (05:10)
And
which idea did you tell them? What did you come in with?
Ahmet (05:13)
Yeah,
that idea is long gone now, this was... Yes. So this was an idea called AppKeep. It was a monitoring tool for Laravel ⁓ and I tried to bootstrap it. I didn't go for investment and that's the path that I'm still following. I don't want VC money. I don't want this pressure. I just want to build something on my own and make ⁓ it...
Dagobert (05:15)
I bet that's right, that's why I'm curious. ⁓
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Ahmet (05:42)
happen. But ⁓ with AppKeep, ⁓ what I couldn't balance was that I just moved to this country and I trying to establish myself here. I had huge worries like how am going to pay rent next month? When you have that on your mind, ⁓ you try to go find a client and that client becomes a priority at one point. That's a really dangerous position for ⁓ a bootstrapper.
Dagobert (05:58)
Yeah.
100%. That's why
I couldn't launch my projects for 10 years because I was just freelancing. Between 18 and 28, I was always freelancing. And I have ideas, but then when you have an idea, like the path to money isn't clear. ⁓ There's a time between idea and money. It's like a long time, kind of. And freelance, it's immediate money. Freelance is money. And that can keep you stuck.
Ahmet (06:27)
Mm-mm.
Yes.
Yeah. They call it golden handcuffs. that's correct. Like that's the right term. And yeah, it's dangerous to, how to say, fall into that trap of, like, let me, you know, prioritize this. And then you realize it's been three years and actually haven't launched anything. So that's, that's like a hard realization. And you're like, okay, so what do I do now? But I actually launched another startup.
while I was here, like, even though that didn't even work. ⁓ I was doing something called Snack Hub to basically allow co-working spaces to sell snacks to their members. It's like super niche idea, but you know, so co-working spaces, I was working out of a co-working space, you know, just for productivity. And at the space that I was working in, there was a fridge and there was a paper.
Dagobert (07:24)
Wait, which spaces? What did you say? yeah. Okay.
Ahmet (07:39)
And you you take something from the fridge, you write your name, you write the amount. And at the end of the month, someone tallies that up and they're like, okay, this is how much you owe. I was like.
Dagobert (07:51)
so they were like
preparing some shit, putting in the fridge and you can take it, but then you have, okay. Because every coworking I did, the fridge was empty. You just brought your own food and you just wrote, don't steal my food. That's the only thing. Yeah.
Ahmet (07:54)
Yes. Yes.
we had that also the communal. Yeah,
the shared fund. But this was for like members, I don't know, get some snacks if they're hungry. They were selling those things. And I was like, wait, this is Estonia. Like we were supposed to be digital here. What are you doing with the paper and pen? Yeah. So I was like, yeah, let me build something. And I quickly built this product and I showed it to the owner of the core space, like the CEO. And she was like, yeah.
Dagobert (08:18)
That sounds super archaic. Yeah, I agree. Okay.
Ahmet (08:31)
Let's do this. I was like, are you serious? So I built this thing called snack hub. Basically it's allowing you to upload a menu of products and then the user can tap on what they want. Let's say a Snickers bar. They tap on that and they can add their credit card and pay. So the next time they come, they don't even have to add their credit card. saved there so they can just tap the product, tap buy.
Dagobert (08:33)
So what did you build exactly?
and they log in and it's like an iPad on the fridge or something.
Ahmet (09:01)
⁓ yeah,
no, everyone logs in from their phone because there's a QR code on the fridge. So you scan the QR code that puts you in the app. ⁓ you do your thing. You don't have to download anything.
Dagobert (09:10)
awesome.
And that's, know, that's since
COVID, that's how a lot of restaurants operate now. Like, at least in France, you scan a code and you can also pay from this. You know, at least in France, it's like this now, a lot.
Ahmet (09:19)
this.
Yes.
So one day a guy that came to the hub saw this idea. He was delivering sandwiches. He was selling there. He saw this idea. He contacted me. He said, can we do a business with you? I'm selling sandwiches all over Tallinn. And I'm like, wow, this is going to grow. ⁓ And then
Dagobert (09:44)
Yeah, that sounds awesome.
I'm on the edge of my seat. I want to hear what's next. Okay. Yeah.
Ahmet (09:49)
Well,
we were in lots of places suddenly. were in hospitals, we were in banks, large companies.
Dagobert (09:58)
So
what was the thing? Was it like a machine? What was the thing that you offered exactly to a hospital, for example? No, like with this partner, both of you together, what was the thing?
Ahmet (10:05)
I only, basically I only offered the technology. Yes, yes.
So he was really excited about this idea. He went ahead and bought himself like a dozen of fridges that took place around the city. I didn't fund any of that. I just provided the technology so that he can, he has a way of providing this self checkout experience.
Dagobert (10:20)
Yeah.
You were the CTO, kind of.
Ahmet (10:34)
In a way. ⁓ And then basically we were doing really good at one point. Like we were selling thousands of snacks in the city in a day. And then COVID hit. Everyone went back home and all of those products in those fridges went bad. And this guy changed his mind. He stopped doing this business. He actually
Dagobert (10:50)
⁓ shit.
Ahmet (11:02)
went and joined MasterChef, the TV show, and he won. ⁓ So yeah. But like, you know, my product died. I mean, I'm still active. Like I'm keeping it open for that core in space and for some other core in space that got interested. So basically I have two clients still, which, you know, if, if I didn't have this freelancing job on the side,
Dagobert (11:07)
Wow! my god, this is so funny. Okay.
yeah.
How much revenue you
make a month from this?
Ahmet (11:32)
I think I'm charging them like 100 euros per year because anything more than that, like they're already losing money. Yeah, because like when you, here's the thing, like you're entering this field as an entrepreneur, you got to know the numbers. If you're entering with like blind eyes and with the idealism that, you know, I'll do something and because I'm so nice and my product is so good.
Dagobert (11:41)
Yeah.
Ahmet (12:00)
people will love me and I'll be successful. But the realities are different. Like, yes, maybe you will build something really awesome, but if you didn't have a business plan or you didn't have a path to succeed at least, then you know, that's not gonna help you.
Dagobert (12:20)
And I feel like I don't know how many people do that, but I definitely did that too. you focus so much on your, I don't know, there's this very naive thing that all you see is the idea and all you see is the, well, if I make a cool idea, like it's just, it just, it just seems like it's enough. Like it's just like, it's like so one dimensional cool idea and I have good intentions and I know how to build. So I'm just going to do it.
Ahmet (12:48)
Mm-hmm.
Dagobert (12:49)
and it's a
Ahmet (12:49)
Yes.
Dagobert (12:50)
good idea, so that will make me rich. That's just like, that's how I believed also. Like it just seems so simple.
And then you realize.
I mean, you I think that's why people start going into things like you need to... I think that's like quite a traumatic moment though. Like we laugh about it. Like when you realize it's not like this, it's kind of like telling a child there's no Santa Claus or something. I'm trying to imagine, but it's like, you know, you're in the cold winter now. Like it's, you know what I mean?
Ahmet (13:17)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
True. Yeah.
Yes.
Yes. Yes, definitely. Yeah. It's a moment that hits you. And after that, you're never the same. Like, yeah, when I first started, I was full of this idealism hope. like, I think I'm onto something great here. And then you realize if I'm selling a subscription for 10 bucks a month, like how many users, how many core working spaces should I find before this even
Dagobert (13:59)
Yeah.
Then it
becomes so obvious how terrible it is. Then you're like, wait, like me that was with my previous startup that was selling automatically generated logos and we spent a year and a half building this and then we launch and we have one sale in three weeks at like 60 euros or something. And then I'm like,
Ahmet (14:04)
Yes.
Dagobert (14:30)
Wait, because I was expecting to go viral. was expecting that. You don't need to calculate the numbers when you're going to go viral. It is going to magically happen. And so then it doesn't happen. Yeah, yeah, that's it. And then it didn't come. And then I was like, wait, how many logos do we need to sell to just have the bare minimum? ⁓ OK, three logos per day. How the fuck do I find?
Ahmet (14:32)
You
Yes, money will just come.
Dagobert (14:58)
three people per day who want to your logo, know, automatically. ⁓ And then, so how did you, because for me, that's when like, I think at this stage, you can either give up probably, because it's kind of like tough, very tough, or like you start grinding and I don't know, for me, I started coping by like the next year, I just kind of became obsessed with...
Ahmet (15:14)
Hmm. ⁓
Yeah.
Dagobert (15:27)
finding customers and I just started posting every day, everywhere online. That's how after one year, after one year of that, I eventually found Twitter and I started finally having some success by actually posting memes about how difficult the shit was. And I started, you know, becoming a bit bigger with like, with that. And that finally started getting us some sales. ⁓ Even though eventually it still wasn't enough because there was other problems.
Ahmet (15:29)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Dagobert (15:57)
⁓ But like, how did you, what happened to you after that? After this realization, and I guess after COVID, which is even worse, and this guy. So what, how did you feel and how did you cope?
Ahmet (16:03)
Mm-hmm.
⁓ Basically, I just focused on that other part of the business that actually generates money. So ⁓ I started building a team around that. So in the beginning, I was just consulting and I was doing freelancing and that turned into an agency. I kept growing that team. I think right now we are like 14 people. I mean, this yeah, so the money problem is long solved, right? I don't actually
now have to worry about that anymore. But there's still this burning thing inside me that, you know, I want to do this. Like, it wasn't about the money to begin with. It was about, you know, pushing your own limits and see what you can do. Can you do this thing like, you know, that that you tell yourself that you care about so much?
Dagobert (17:00)
And so, yeah,
yeah. And so you said you focused on the part of the business that was working. What was that?
Ahmet (17:09)
So yeah, we are providing ⁓ team extension and staffing. Basically, we work with companies that have existing projects ⁓ and teams, but they need extra hands. Maybe for six months, yeah.
Dagobert (17:23)
okay.
So it was like the freelancing agency thing you referred to. I thought
that was like this fridge thing. Somehow there was a part of it that was good. Okay, okay. Okay, cool. Wow, okay, so you have this.
Ahmet (17:33)
no no no no.
No. Yeah, so none of my products
actually made any meaningful money, like to be honest, like none of them would sustain me and ⁓ I never gave up somehow. don't know. just, I want to, you know, like build something that actually people enjoy using and people look at and say, wow, this thing is actually cool. And that's what, you know, gets me off.
Dagobert (17:51)
I get it.
Ahmet (18:04)
even when I'm doing the freelancing bit, like we are, what we are working on is thankfully quite meaningful work. We are helping a nonprofit in USA. And actually our project that we built for them was greatly helpful for the wildfire response. ⁓ So during this wildfires in LA, we basically built this care system that allows people to ⁓
Dagobert (18:26)
⁓ what did you build?
Ahmet (18:34)
call in, tell them what they're missing or what they need. Like, let's say they need housing, they need food, they need shelter, or they need daycare, like, you know, basic things. ⁓ And the person on the other hand can connect them to the relevant services ⁓ that, you know, could help them. And sometimes these services are free, but just, you know, ⁓ people are not aware of them.
Dagobert (18:59)
It
seems like an advanced 911, something like that, kind of.
Ahmet (19:03)
Yes,
it's actually 211 instead of 911. It's a non-emergency number that you can call. So there are many agencies all around the US. We work with one such agency to build them this platform of applications. So one for the call center, one for the care management. When, you know, after you receive a contact, you have to reach back and see actually if they...
you know, got the help they needed. So that was, that's super gratifying work. ⁓ Yeah.
Dagobert (19:37)
Yeah, and
it's US, so you make money from it, I guess. Because usually US clients, no it's not. Okay, so you tried some products, lost your naive perspective on things, you still manage to grow an agency, you started freelancing and you grew an agency, now it's taking care of like, know, money, know, living, whatever, no problem. But you still have that itch. So...
Ahmet (19:41)
Yes, Pays the bills.
Dagobert (20:08)
You built something. So how did you, what's next? What did you do after that?
Ahmet (20:14)
What did I do after this? So if you reach actually a certain team size, there is a critical point where you actually lose track of who's doing what. And you can try to keep track of this by installing this daily standup. You come, you like join this Google meet or whatever, and you're like, what did you work on? yeah, yesterday I worked on this and I have no blockers, you know, the usual.
Bullshit. Like most people just say, I have no updates or this and that, like actually they did stuff, but they are scared to say it because they think it's too trivial. Yes, they worked on things. They did stuff, but they're maybe not good at telling people what they've achieved or, know, ⁓ they just think that it's no big deal. But as the project owner, you still want to see what everyone is up to just so you don't get a sense of things.
Dagobert (20:52)
Yeah.
Exactly.
Ahmet (21:15)
And plus, if you're an agency, also have this responsibility in front of your clients. At the end of your month, you'll send them this bill. They might ask you, so what exactly am I paying for here? And then you have the trouble where you have to go back to GitHub, open all the PRs and try to get a sense of what was shipped, you know, and then you can send back them a report.
Dagobert (21:31)
Yeah.
Even if they don't
ask you, it's good to have it. It puts you in a position of strength. If at any time you can refer to something and you can be like, no, you ⁓ you can always remind them over time what's happening so it can be good. OK, so that's a problem you had with your agency. So you're scratching your own itch. Nice. OK.
Ahmet (21:54)
Yes.
Yes, so
Exactly.
Mm hmm. Yes.
So yeah, like with the LLMs, I always felt excitement and wanted to build a real product that incorporates LLM inside like, you AI. And at the same time, I had this problem exactly to solve. So I said, Yeah, I'll give it a try. And ⁓ I think back in February, we built like a very early version that took
and just summarize them and then we're like yeah this is actually cool. We started using it ourselves so whenever we sent invoices we also like now included those summaries and the clients just loved it.
Dagobert (22:41)
Okay.
And so did you stop doing standups?
Ahmet (22:55)
Yes, we don't have standups. We don't have this, how to say, ⁓ like calls. Standups are casual with us. Everyone can check in at any point of the day they want. And they, have like very simple template. But I think ⁓ with the new version, we don't even need that anymore because ⁓ now we have a daily standup module that shows you what everyone is up to. So
Dagobert (23:23)
show me
that. Show me that. That's interesting.
Ahmet (23:26)
Yeah. Yeah. One second.
Dagobert (23:34)
It's funny because when you were talking about the stand up, I was coming from a completely different angle and I was like, ⁓ we need a facilitator for stand up. You know, because like me, when I do this podcast, I'm trying to make everybody comfortable, make people say things and I'm kind of good at it. I'm like, I should sell this and be in a stand up and just facilitate. But that's a completely different way of solving the problem. So.
Ahmet (23:44)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. So I guess you can see this. Basically, I synchronize Laravel. So you know, it's a project with lots of contribution, lots of activity. But basically, the stand up works like this, you pick a date, any date, just to see what happened on that exact date, ⁓ and person by person, right? So Taylor Aultwell, creator of Laravel.
moved a bunch of PRs around. You can see here, he merged this, he closed this. You can scroll down. He left a comment on this thing. Okay, so that's what he was up to on this day. And then you can, exactly. So you can scroll to the right to see all of your developers and all of their activity. This guy right here, he opened a PR about fixing something. This guy needs a resolution on something. He opened a PR, but it's stalled.
Dagobert (24:34)
Okay, daily stand up, yeah.
Ahmet (24:54)
actually something we added here. It just means that this PR has been sitting for like more than two weeks and no one did something about it. ⁓
Dagobert (25:04)
So how did
the text we see? Is it you to generate it? How? Is it just the title of the PR? How is that?
Ahmet (25:09)
Mm-hmm.
Basically on this page, is not much AI going on. All you see here, yes, all you see here is just the PR titles and we add this piece here ⁓ telling you the latest action. And you click on this, ⁓ Yes, no, actually this one we detect based on the events.
Dagobert (25:16)
Yeah, because it still seems quite technical.
And is it like somebody tagging? Yeah.
Ahmet (25:40)
Like we synchronize the GitHub timeline and then we look at what's happened on that day. And then we try to figure out, you know, if this is something that's something that needs resolution, if this is something they shipped, we categorize and show you. But we also have this more. Yeah.
Dagobert (25:56)
see wait just just FYI
we it's a bit cut off on the left your screen we cannot see the whole sidebar
Ahmet (26:03)
⁓ mm-hmm.
I think that's because of the zoom.
Dagobert (26:08)
No, no, it's not the zoom. ⁓ can, it's even the window itself. It's weird because I can see your menu bar is okay. I can see Safari and the Apple icon, but under it.
Ahmet (26:22)
How about now?
Dagobert (26:24)
Yes, now it's good. Okay, let's do it this way.
Ahmet (26:26)
That was good.
Okay, nice. Yeah. This daily standup is something that we very recently built yesterday. We built this using Claude. So... ⁓
Dagobert (26:38)
Wow, okay.
And what do you send clients? Cause you said like clients love it. Do you, cause I guess you don't send them that.
Ahmet (26:44)
Mmm.
No, we send them something else. So if you go to the reports, you go to the new report, we have three kinds. Basically we have a team stand up, ⁓ which if you want this as a message, you can summarize everything into one message. have a project manager report that gives you a bit more detail about, you know, progress and status. And the client report basically skips all the technical stuff and just gives you.
business value, just focuses on what was shipped and why that matters basically.
Dagobert (27:24)
That's
awesome. you basically, it's like three levels of more or less technical, I guess. ⁓ So can you show just the client report? I'm just curious to see the most. ⁓
Ahmet (27:30)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah,
so with Laravel, guess all of them are equally technical, but let me see if there is something I can show you. I guess the closest for Laravel would be the product updates, and that would be something you would share with like end users. ⁓ It's very technical. Yeah.
Dagobert (27:55)
So this Laravel
thing is just like a demo thing or you're working with Laravel? Is Laravel your client or it's a demo?
Ahmet (28:01)
No.
It's just for the demo, you know, like I wanted to show you like how this works with like a real project. So can't really show you our real client status. I'm sorry.
Dagobert (28:06)
Okay.
So this is... No, yeah,
that makes sense. like, would that be... Okay, so that's the kind of thing you would set on clients then. Like with what's new, improvements. Okay, you... Okay, let me read that. Okay, improve, like there's like an improvement section, pagination accessibility, improve accessibility by localizing the area label for pagination navigation, fixes, what's new does like basically...
Ahmet (28:21)
Yes.
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Dagobert (28:41)
15 bullet points. Wow. That's like a GitHub release thing for sure.
Ahmet (28:43)
Think of this like, if, yeah.
Yes, and let me show you this basically. If you go to the, you know, Laravel framework ⁓ releases, you try to read a release like this, good luck trying to understand what happened, you know.
Dagobert (28:58)
Yes, even for non-technical
people it's like, you you have to put your brain on to fucking get that. You cannot just read something easy.
Ahmet (29:07)
Yes.
So we cut through the noise and give you something just a bit nicer to look at and also easier to consume. ⁓ If you look at this, you immediately understand, these are new, these are improved things, these are bug fixes, and there are some security performance fixes as well.
Dagobert (29:28)
And so the project manager version, what would that look like?
Ahmet (29:32)
Yeah, let's create one.
Dagobert (29:35)
yeah, and you select the timeframe. So you you selected last week.
Ahmet (29:39)
Exactly. So yeah, you can choose the timeframe you want. You can have a custom timeframe. You can make it the recurring thing. You can say, me this every week. Don't make me come here again and again. But project manager report basically looks like this. It will include also links to the individual items of work. So you can click and go to GitHub from here.
and it will show you what's completed, what's on track, what's at risk, and your resource allocation. So what are you distributing your efforts to? So 60 % of your effort went to new features, right?
Dagobert (30:20)
And
to figure that out, do you need to create a project on GitHub and track this using this interface?
Ahmet (30:28)
You don't have to do anything extra. Basically, we analyze the PR contents. None of these PRs are tagged with feature enhancement bug fix. There are no labels on them.
Dagobert (30:38)
Okay, it's all AI. Okay,
so you really save time. Yeah, I see there's no tags or anything.
Ahmet (30:42)
Yes.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. That's basically it. Yeah. mm-hmm. Yeah, we try to flag up. If anything is critical, we try to flag up, you you have to watch out for stalled feature delivery. This being an open source project, that makes sense. Like there are a bunch of PRs that were opened and they're sitting. ⁓ But, you know, if this was like something else, then that's something you want to pay attention to.
Dagobert (30:49)
And so, yeah, go ahead.
Yeah, yeah.
Why did you call it Git Loom? Because I'm actually... I was wondering since this morning.
Ahmet (31:17)
Yeah.
Yeah. ⁓ I guess Git loom is like in the sense that it's weaving all this information together for you. Like, does that make sense? So, ⁓ kind of like something related to weaving.
Dagobert (31:32)
I see. I don't even know what Loom is. I
just know this app where you record yourself. But I don't know what Loom means, so maybe that's why.
Ahmet (31:37)
Yes. Yeah, that I guess,
yeah, that's also a familiar name. Yeah, true. Like in that sense, Loom, yeah, makes you think of that app. But yeah, this app is something you use for, you know, summarizing and basically weaving together lots of distributed data into one view.
Dagobert (32:01)
I just realized you could use, I mean, maybe the stupidest idea, but like for clients, you could use AI to generate a loom video of some guy, some AI generated person talking and explaining what was done. I don't know, you know, that would be fun. Get loom, I don't know, but yeah. .ai. ⁓ Cool, man. So what's your like, what's the vision now? What's the direction of this? What are you working on?
Ahmet (32:14)
yeah, yes. Yeah, that sounds great. Yeah.
⁓
Basically, we are trying to see where the demand is going to be with this, because I built this for myself as an agency owner. So my guess is that other agency owners will find value in this. But we're also thinking that, you you could find great value in this if you're also a product owner, like, well, if you're a founder, maybe is the right term.
Dagobert (32:40)
Mm-hmm.
Ahmet (32:56)
You know, you're, busy shipping stuff. You don't want to spend a lot of time going back, writing this product updates. If you're paying attention to detail, it just eats up so much of your time, but you still want nice updates, don't you? So right now the strategy is to see who has the most demand for this type of product. We're still like, you know, trying to find our place in the market.
Dagobert (33:24)
That's interesting, you know when I was working, because I had a big burnout with my previous startup two years ago and then I took a job for like eight months at a startup in Paris. That was really, really cool actually. ⁓ Really cool guys. And I was product marketing manager and I had to do these things. know, this is what happened. Because it was kind of like, you know, a big product.
with some investments, so there was like B2B clients and you know, we had this page in actually multiple languages about the updates on the product and it was so annoying to do, like it was so annoying to do that. So automating that, that's a nice, you know, and that's a nice value proposition. We were very small, we were like six or seven, so there was no...
Ahmet (34:05)
Yeah.
Dagobert (34:16)
There was not even, I mean, there was a daily stand up, but it was just between two or three devs and they were all working together. So it wasn't really necessary on that front at that stage, but the releasing that would have been super helpful. So yeah, that might be something. You might be onto something. Yeah.
Ahmet (34:33)
Yeah,
let's hope so.
Dagobert (34:37)
Well cool man, I was super happy to meet you and to discover your product.
Ahmet (34:42)
Thank you.
Dagobert (34:45)
So I wish you best of luck on your launch day.
Ahmet (34:49)
Yeah. Thank you very much. Cheers. Bye.
Dagobert (34:51)
Yeah, cheers.