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In this exciting episode of the Waste Warriors Podcast, host Lee Godbold sits down with Randy Shacka, CEO of Two Men and a Truck, and Jason Gailey, Senior Brand Director of Two Men and a Junk Truck. They discuss expanding their moving business into the junk removal industry. Randy shares his 24-year career path from intern to CEO, emphasizing the importance of values, leadership, and relationships within a franchise system. Jason dives into the challenges and opportunities of leading the new junk removal brand and the significant role of marketing and franchise support. The episode also explores the impact of their acquisition by ServiceMaster in 2021 and the future vision for Two Men and a Junk Truck. Whether you're an entrepreneur, business owner, or a budding franchisee, this episode offers valuable insights on business growth, leadership, and navigating industry challenges.
00:00 Welcome to Episode 4 of Waste Warriors Podcast
01:02 Introducing the Guests: Two Men and a Truck
01:26 Randy Shaka's Journey with Two Men and a Truck
09:19 Jason Galey's Path to Two Men and a Truck
17:48 Maintaining Brand Standards and Franchisee Relations
28:40 Launching Two Men and a Junk Truck
42:53 Meeting Customers Where They Are
43:14 Marketing Differences Between Junk Removal and Moving
44:06 Capital Investment and Patience in Marketing
45:18 Challenges and Cultural Adjustments in Junk Removal
45:36 ServiceMaster Acquisition Journey
50:14 Post-Acquisition Changes and Opportunities
51:51 Cross-Selling Between ServiceMaster Brands
57:26 Ideal Franchise Partner Profile
01:00:48 Why Partner with Two Men and a Junk Truck?
01:05:40 Vision for the Future
01:12:16 Handling Pressure and Setting Goals
01:16:51 Final Thoughts and Contact Information
Creators and Guests
Host
Host
What is The Waste Warriors?
Step into the trenches with The Waste Warriors Podcast, the ultimate resource for waste industry pros determined to build 7- and 8-figure empires. Whether you’re in dumpster rentals, junk removal, front-load services, or curbside pickup, this monthly podcast delivers battle-tested strategies to scale your business. Each episode features raw insights from industry leaders, reviews of game-changing equipment and tech, and proven tactics to crush the competition. If you're ready to dominate the waste industry, this podcast is your ultimate playbook.
004 Waste Warriors - Two guys and a junk truck
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Lee: [00:00:00] Alright, everybody, welcome to episode number four of the Waste Warriors podcast. I'm your host, Lee Godbold. We've got producer Joe in the background that is running the show for us.
And I'm very excited about today's episode. I think if you're an entrepreneur, a business owner in the waste industry, you're somebody that's aspirational. You've got goals and things that you wanna accomplish. Today's gonna be an episode. You're gonna listen all the way through. And the reason for it is, is we've got some really big heavy hitters in here.
I wanna set the stage a little bit. We've got or a company, we've got a company here with they've published that they have over 400 locations. published revenue figure is over 600 million plus in annual system sales. And over the past handful of years, they've got what appears to be 60 plus. removal locations. So they've been able to expand from doing extremely well in one industry to now going into a new [00:01:00] industry, and they're off to a really big start. So who are we talking about? We're talking about two men in a truck, and the guys that we have on here, big heavy hitters we've got these.
CEO, Randy Shaka is the president of Two Minute Truck and the CEO. And then we've got Jason Galey, who's the senior brand director for two Men and a Junk Truck. Welcome guys.
Jason: Thanks for having us on Lee.
Randy: it. Thanks, Lee.
Lee: Randy, you and I, or I've had the pleasure of being around you a few times and us joining some calls over the last few years as you guys were getting this junk removal division started up. And one of the things that I've really observed about you, I think you're a tremendous leader. Um, obviously you've got hundreds of franchise partners, I think you've got. A big corporate team. You have hear a lot of suggestions and ideas and I'm sure there's a lot of problems that come your way. You seem to handle it with style and do an excellent job. And in speaking with some of your franchise partners, all of 'em say [00:02:00] they just love the fact that right from the top, it seems like you guys are listening may not necessarily do everything that they want, but at least you're open to it and you manage that very, very well. it's obviously obvious that you're a kind of a tremendous leader. The other thing that really kind of sticks out, 'cause you never see it anymore, it's the fact that two men in a truck has been your only job since college. 'cause you started as like an intern. Correct.
Randy: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Lee: me a little bit about those, about those early days.
I know you're an engineer. Just kind of tell me a little bit about those early days, how you wound up at Tubman and a truck. I'd love to hear about it.
Randy: Yeah. First appreciate the time to be on with you. Lee respected everything you've built as well, and so, yeah. You know, I got my start 24 years ago. I. While at Michigan State pursuing engineering and, you know, as a junior at Michigan State, and frankly, my dad was asking, Hey, what, what's going on this summer for, for work and employment?
How you gonna pay the bills? And I had done internships the last, you know, previous two years, but I [00:03:00] just, it wasn't, there's no energy, no passion behind it. Right. And I came across this opportunity for a marketing intern at two Men in a truck and had no business applying for it. No no background in franchising.
Didn't really know the name. Two Men in a truck, even though it was in Lansing, Michigan, here where we started. But I needed a job, man. And so I applied for it and just walked in the door and fell in love with it. Right. And just the values and just the family feel. I think back then I was the 27th person working in the building.
Lee: Mm-hmm.
Randy: today we're over 200 plus, right? And so, you know, came in as an intern, just learned just what franchising was. More importantly, you know, how to work with people. that's ultimately what we do each and every day we're in moving and junk removal. But it's a people business, right? And so, you know, the family at the time taught me all about that, right?
And relationships, how important they are partnerships, um, seek and understand before you understood. And so, yeah, you know, I got my start. I, I had the opportunity to work two years at a franchise startup for two men on a truck in Florida. Orlando, [00:04:00] moved down, on the couch for free with a husband and wife that just opened two men.
So really got into the operations really quickly on the trucks out grassroots marketing, doing all the, the heavy lifting that needed to get a, a business off the ground in a market that nobody knew. Two men on a truck really. Right? And so, um, two years later I got homesick, moved back to Michigan, and you know, you fast forward, you know, 20 years later I took over as brand president in 2012.
Lee: Mm-hmm.
Randy: And today sitting on the leadership team with Service Master Brands as well. Um, we were acquired back in 2021, and so, been been a great run, great ride. You mentioned like the ability to stay with the brand. It just hasn't felt like it's been that long. but we're always changing and having, and growing, so I think that's part of the, the draw too, right?
So it's been a, been a good run for sure.
Lee: Seek to understand before being understood. I think that is an excellent saying that I just kind of wanna highlight there. I think you pick up these little nuggets every once in a while and that's an awesome saying right there. Um, I am curious, so you [00:05:00] said kind of immediately you were engineer you're Spartan, Michigan State
Randy: Mm-hmm.
Lee: and you joined two men in a truck.
What year was this?
Randy: Gosh, 2001, so yeah. 24 years this
Lee: Okay, they'll be coming up on 25 here soon. Man, that's a huge accomplishment. So the first thing you said is it just felt like a family and you felt like you belonged. What were some things that they did that. Gave you that feeling that's I'm sure led you to being there, you know, 24, almost 25 years now.
Randy: Yeah, no, it's a great question. And you know, the crazy thing that's not, it still sticks out to my mind, was walking in, interviewing for an internship at this, this company, right. And my name was on the welcome board. Like, I, I just, and it just felt like it stuck with me like that little attention to detail.
Like, who, who am I right? And just I'm interviewing for this opportunity, I need this
Lee: Mm-hmm.
Randy: that's how much they thought of, I guess, my time and my presence being there. And then secondly, just the opportunity where, as part of my orientation as an [00:06:00] intern, like I sat down with our founder, Mary Ellen Sheets.
I sat down with her daughter Melanie, who's president at the time. Um, the original two men, Brigham John, they all spent time with me as an intern, about me, right? Kind of that seek to understand, right? And so that was instilled right away as like, man. How much care, compassion, and of their personal time they gave to me starting out.
It just, I just fell in love right at the gate. Man. They, they bought, you know, they showed me all about TMT, they shared the values, the history, but it was just the, the behaviors of welcoming somebody into a new environment for a college kid that really stuck with me and still sticks with me to this day.
Lee: Wow. That's very, very powerful stuff. The other thing that I'm curious about is I didn't realize the franchise that you interned with, was it for two years?
Randy: Yeah. Down in Orlando. Yep.
Lee: I didn't realize it was brand new when you got, when you went down there, so you were there from the very start of a franchise, and then over that two year timeframe, you grew it. So when you first got started, I mean, how many [00:07:00] trucks are you talking? How many people are you on the moving truck? Are you, are you doing the marketing? What's it like getting a brand new franchise location like that started.
Randy: Yeah. And, and one thing I didn't share, you know, I was a. Junior and going into my senior year when, when Brad, who's the franchise owner down there, came to me and said, Hey Angie, my wife and I are looking to open up a two men in Florida. you wanna go with, and yeah, I was two classes shy of graduating with an engineering degree in, in at Michigan State.
Lee: Yep.
Randy: And something about that question, just like bottom like, man, this opportunity, I've been searching for something like this. Like to go build that something different and no knock in engineering. It's a great, great program.
Lee: Sure.
Randy: But he asked me that question, I was like, man, I do wanna go.
But secondly, I don't know how I'm gonna ask my dad to let me go. 'cause he, he was a commercial lender for 30 plus years, very conservative, you know, and uh, but going to him and saying, Hey, like I have this opportunity. I you I'm gonna fulfill my degree, but I want to go after this. And, and as a great dad, he said, Hey, just promise me you'll get your [00:08:00] degree.
I'll support you a hundred percent. But going down there, you know, just that opportunity to, whatever it took out of the gate, right? Whether that's like, Hey, I'm on the trucks six days a week, seven days a week, you know, working these long hours to getting the grassroots materials out there to handling a potential damage if it took place, like doing whatever it took to help go from two trucks.
I think when I left there was, there were up to six trucks in that two year period, which is, you know, relatively speaking back then with an unknown brand in a new
market. It was pretty good, right? And so being part of that journey, being part of the experience from the ground up, I think has helped me in my role today, obviously from working with, with owners that are doing that each and every day, right?
And so having the compassion, the empathy, the understanding of, of what's going on, um, is something that, that I, I truly wanna make sure I, I abide by each and every day.
Lee: Love it. Would you say you've done just about every job within the two men in a truck system, or at least most of them?
Randy: You know, I think I've had 15 titles over my, my time, and it's not like they're important to me or anything,
Lee: Yeah.
Randy: just, it's, I'm a [00:09:00] reflection of so many others and this brand that came here looking for a job and have turned into something much bigger. Right. Um, whether it's franchise ownership or somebody that came here even for a few months and left to pursue a profession.
But yeah, I feel like for the most part, I've, I've been part of a lot of, of different roles and, and I've enjoyed every, every minute of it.
Lee: Very, very cool. So Jason, I know you haven't been with Two Minute a truck quite as long, I don't think. What was your path to Two Minute and a Truck and what really made you feel like this brand was the right fit for you?
Jason: Yeah, so I joined. Um, well thanks for having us on too again, Lee. Um, so I joined in, um, it was this early September. The brand launched in OC August of 23. Um, much like Randy, I'm an engineer. Um, I'm an engineer by trade. I was in the manufacturing. I. Field for most all of my career since I was probably 16 years old.
I was a high school co-op to an intern, and I was in commercial steering and suspension [00:10:00] business and worked my way into class A and emergency response vehicles. And, um, supported that on many, many fronts. Engineering to the commercial sales side of it, business development, service operations.
Um, so I held a lot of roles and the opportunity for joining two men came in front of me and, and all the way to the, to the, even the initial email to have the conversation. I remember Sarah Bennett reaching out and just kind of inquiring about the opportunity to have the conversation, even the process to be able to join where I was exposed to a ton of great leadership throughout the entire two minute and a truck team, um, thoughtfulness cooperative, collaborative.
Very welcoming. I, it's kind of funny Randy was talking about having his name on the monitor, you know, on out front when he came in. Similar experience. Um, I've actually tried to try to share that too when I see others in the lobby that are coming in and for interviews and, [00:11:00] you know, encourage him to ask questions and it's been a great, great fit for me.
I think one of my biggest, um, and I've talked about it often and I'll continue to do it, but I think coming from the manufacturing business for almost 20 years, um, you know, and then walking into franchising, the culture that Randy and the team have been built here over the years is, is bar none the best.
Um, it's it's one that, that speaks volumes to the, you know, the history of the family and what they've built. Um, trying to make sure we embody that here at two Men and a junk truck as well as the best that we can. So I think it's just been able to kind of step in, hit the ground running, um, you know, and I'm gonna st I'm gonna steal it from Randy's.
So much so that I've, I wrote it on my whiteboard in my office, you know, it's the progress over perfection and Randy's been good about reminding me of that, that, hey this is a whole new brand. This is New Ventures. This is something that we have demand for that, that there's been asked for. So, you know, we gotta put one foot in front of the other and we're gonna go figure it out together.
And [00:12:00] which is probably one of our strengths that we've been able to early onset partner with a lot of really good franchisees that have made that leap of faith with us and said, Hey, let's go build this together. And being able to have that open dialogue, collaboration, and, and try and figure out what right looks like.
So, um, so I think that for me has probably been the biggest, um opportunity when joining Two Men is you know, leveraging the, what, 40, 40 years of culture that they've built here around and. And trying to make sure that we embody that here at two Men and a junk truck as well.
Lee: That's excellent. That's great to hear. And. We're gonna roll into the two minute junk truck topic in just a moment, and I'm excited to talk about that. 'cause it's really cool that you guys went from building something so big on the moving side to going into something where you had absolutely no real experience in.
And taking it from kinda the ground floor to you guys have got a pretty sizable operation now. I do have one final question when we're kind of talking about your backgrounds and everything, [00:13:00] um, Randy, we can start with you and Jason, I'm gonna ask you the same question. Was there a specific moment early on when you realized like, Hey, this isn't just a job, this is gonna be something that we're really gonna turn into a career.
Randy: Yeah, I think when I left to go help the franchise get going and, and Orlando. Know, and, and then, you know, spent the two years there and moved back to Michigan with a lot of experience. Right. And I, I came very confident with that, right. And so when I came back to interview, were just looking for someone here to help start up franchises, get off the ground faster, right?
And it's like, don't know, you name it, like divine intervention, whatever it may be. Like the timing of that saying I just did that for two years. I'm confident I'm ready. I love this brand. I just, you know, I, I blood, sweat and tears with this company on the trucks at times. Like, isn't what I thought I'd be ended up, you know, going after, but it is something I want to go pursue.
And I came back and I had an opportunity, which sounds kind of weird right now, but we were growing so [00:14:00] fast and the family came and said, Hey, we, we need to do a better job of documenting what we do here. 'cause we're growing so fast and it's in everyone's head and we have to get it from head to paper. And so we went after, if you're familiar with that, the ISO certifications of, you know, the automobile manufacturing industry,
Lee: Yep.
Randy: of unheard of in franchising,
Lee: Yeah, that's weird.
Randy: They're like, that's like what we need. Does anyone wanna go lead that project?
Lee: You're an engineer.
Randy: rose, nobody rose
Lee: Yeah.
Randy: hands.
Right. But I did. It is like, I'd love to 'cause hey, like it's, it's boring, but it's important and it's learning. Right? And you, so I knew like to be able to go take that project and, and step up and lean, I, I learned so much. But I had coming back so much energy, confidence, and just experience of doing that I knew like, this is what I want to go do.
'cause I could see many people coming to this brand looking for opportunities. Like, man, if I can help these owners get going quickly, get out of the gate and grow like that just helps them go, you know, fulfill their goals, hopes and dreams. And so it was that moment, probably early two thousands where I, when I came back and that was part of the [00:15:00] opportunity.
But taking on a project that was kind of monotonous and, and being that energetic about it, I think kind of shows, um, the passion behind the two men on truck brand.
Lee: How big of a deal do you think it is that you were willing to take on that, that job, do something that nobody else was willing to do? Obviously you've been at the bottom, you've gone to the top. Do you think that played a major role? I'm curious in it because we have a lot of younger people that watch this and as a business owner you have to tackle everything.
And then on the other side of things, we've got guys that watch this, that are also just kind of moving up the ranks. They might be within the waste industry, potentially the moving industry. They wanna get ahead and they wanna do something kinda like you did. How did that willingness to do the stuff that's not necessarily fun, but important, how has that impacted your career?
Randy: Yeah, you know what, like one of our, one of the original two men is Greg Sorber, who was, who was CEO here, um, for many years. And you know, one of the things he said when he promoted me to president, I was the first non-family member to take that role was like, he was the one, Randy was the one that would step up and do things that [00:16:00] nobody else wanted to
Lee: Mm-hmm.
Randy: And to the point where Bri, you know, we even crafted a hallway here at our corporate office called the heavy lifters way, right? It's like those willing to do the heavy lifting for projects or areas that nobody else wants to do, knowing it's gonna help progress the company forward. And so it's not just like words, it's, it's something we believe in and it's something I think that I. No matter where you are in your career, like if you're just getting going, like doing the things that no one else wants to do. A is hopefully solving a problem. B is showing the energy you have to go after doing something like that for the betterment of the company first. then third is just, you know, you're, you're challenging yourself to take on something that's difficult, right?
And so
Lee: Yep.
Randy: through that personally as well. So yeah, all those things kind of helped shape me, I think, to where I am today. But, um, something that not many people are proud of being ISO certified, but we were way back when as a franchise company. 'cause it
Lee: Yeah.
Randy: Right? But we had the documentation.
Lee: You know uniformity amongst franchises, obviously huge. So if you go to a fast food [00:17:00] restaurant, you go to any Chick-fil-A in the country, it's generally gonna be the exact same no matter where you are. it's very disappointing if you go someplace and you expect one thing and you get something different.
So I would imagine that ISO certification has probably served you guys well over the year, over the years as you've expanded two minute a truck and now in a two minute a junk truck.
Randy: Especially our internal processes here that we do at the, you know, the corporate, the franchisor side, right? And making
Lee: Mm-hmm.
Randy: stays, just as we, we expect at the, the field level, those standards you, you make or break your brand by, by diminishing those standards, right? And so it's something that really set foundationally for the next probably, you know, 20 years of let's go build upon these standards we've built, align with our values, you know, building a compelling why behind what we do. It's kind of the recipe for, for what's gotten us here, along with, you know, finding the great people that, that live those values each and every day.
Lee: So I'm, I'm curious because you, it is such a huge system and one of the things you mentioned is making sure that the brand standards are maintained all the way throughout the organization. How do you do that when you have, I dunno how many different owners you have? [00:18:00] Um, what is it, a hundred, you probably have a hundred different owners, maybe over
Randy: plus. Yep.
Lee: 200. So over 200 plus owners and personalities and locations. are the best practices that you do to make sure everybody operates using the same system, the same standards. So if a customer's moving in North Carolina, they get the same experience as if they're moving in Michigan. How do you do that?
Randy: Yeah, it, we kind of laugh a little bit about that. I think varying opinions is what, what makes franchising great right? Is, is the ability to have people from different walks of life, experiences, nationalities, education, come together with a common goal, shared values, work together to build a brand, right?
And so there's a lot of trust in that. Somebody's working within two men in a truck a thousand miles away. And I think it starts for us, when we first meet an individual or a prospect that's looking at our brand, is being very clear with who we are, why we do what we do. And to some extent, if this person joins us or doesn't join us, the brand's gonna continue to grow, right?
Like, we're gonna cont like so you don't say that, [00:19:00] at the same time it's because of the culture and the standards you've built is, do you wanna be part of what we have here? And, and like, you know, we're not going to be all different things to all different people, but this is who we are. If it's something that interests you, we're gonna know that right during the discovery process and be upfront and honest and open about the good, the bad, the ugly of franchising, the good, the bad, the ugly of of TMT. But then also hand that person, every one of our franchise owners phone numbers to go call say, that'll give you the true sense of, of who we are. That'll
Lee: Yep.
Randy: the, the wins, the, the challenges, perspectives of us here at the, the corporate office. So it starts during that process. And then think secondly is just clear communication and relationship building, right?
If, we're continually communicating, you know, what the standard is, we reinforce it through our behaviors, and we're building relationships along the way. Like we kinda work to the culture to solve problems, right? We're not focusing so much on a policy or a standard. It's like it's reinforcing why the standard exists because I. More than likely somebody that's been here 20 years has [00:20:00] benefited from having those standards.
Lee: Mm-hmm.
Randy: And, and I just had a conversation with an owner the other day about that same thing, right? Questioning us a, a policy. It's like, Hey, it's been there for 20 years. Not saying it's not gonna change, but you've benefited from this because we've held firm on this when somebody else has not abided by it and it's made our brand stronger.
And so it's kind of all over the board there. But it starts with, you know, the, the process of discovery day. It's, it's clearly communicating and reinforcing our why when a decision comes out. And then continually working on that partnership and relationship where we pick up the phone if there's an issue, or more importantly, if something, if someone isn't abiding by a standard. pretty consistent from our process here of letting people know that.
Lee: So I, I'm curious about that. And Jason, I have not forgotten about you. We're gonna get to you in just a moment. Um, I'm, I'm, I'm really curious about the process on how you identify when somebody isn't following a standard. If you can gimme a couple examples of those, and from a management standpoint. got people that are very interested in potentially starting a franchise system [00:21:00] at some point. you recognize that stuff? How do you deal with it and what are some of the ramifications you guys have experienced in the past when you're trying to kind of enforce those brand standards?
Randy: Yeah. And, and that, that term standard, it's pretty broad, right? There's, there's policies, there's our franchise agreement. There's a lot of of things clearly written when we join into an agreement with somebody in a partnership. a prime example is our trucks, right? Everyone's, you know, we're managing people in trucks every day, whether it's junk or moving, right? Our signage on our trucks is important, like.
Lee: Mm-hmm.
Randy: Just like UP, like all these other brands out there that people, you know, almost 40% of our our customers see our trucks. That's how they, they learn about us, right? And so having signage that's off on one truck, could just say, oh, that's one of 4,000 trucks. We don't need to worry about it.
Lee: Right.
Randy: But instead we say, Hey, like this is our layout. This is how it's supposed to be done. Yours isn't done that way. Um, let's work out a timeline to get it fixed, right? And so the, the choices you make each and every day to say either you hold firm on, on what's important, and [00:22:00] especially as it relates back to the brand.
And to your
Lee: Okay.
Randy: Lee, like you mentioned, the consumer expectations. Basically different looking trucks rolling around in different, different cities. It's not gonna help the brand grow. And so you kind of go back to that for the franchisee. You give them time, you work with them on a plan to get it fixed, but those are choices you make each and every day, right?
That say, Hey, we could let it go. Or do we hold firm? And typically we hold firm because we know if we had 2000 of our 4,000 trucks looking different. It's not a fleet, it's not a system.
Lee: Yeah.
Randy: a standard, right? And so that's one example. I think there's, there's quite a few others that we have to go by.
But, I think it, a lot of the issues can be just dealt with upfront. When you bring somebody into your brand, you bring somebody in to just explaining the pros and cons of franchising, explaining, here's our standards, explaining here's what's expected. And then at the end of the day, do you still wanna be part of it? And, and it's not gonna solve a lot of it, but you get that outta the way. 'cause then you can go back to, if it's two years later, Hey, remember that conversation at Discovery Day and we talked about this. [00:23:00] Um, that's why, right? And so it's important from us, especially around the brand. And if you're building a brand as if you're looking to franchise or replicate success, that's ultimately what franchising is. firm on standards is a big, big foundational thing you're gonna have to do.
Lee: Yeah, there's a couple thing takeaways there is, number one, when you guys are looking to sell franchises, you're definitely not desperate. If anything, you're. More or less kinda like take it or leave it. Not quite, not, you know, quite that rough, but that's what more or less it is. And what I found is if you have that, you tend to sell a lot more and you get the right people and you get rid of the wrong people. think that's a great way of approaching it. And the thing that I look at in terms of policies, brand standards, whatever we wanna call 'em here, if you let one thing kind of pass or slide by, it's like a chin in the armor and one little chin in the armor, one little scratch isn't gonna hurt it. But if it keeps happening over and over and over, eventually that piece of armor's gonna fail. And it's the same type of stuff when you're trying to run a well run franchise system. So, and I could only imagine [00:24:00] some of the stuff you guys go through when you're trying to do that 'cause you've got so many people and opinions and investments people have made and all that kind of stuff. So it's very cool to watch you guys work and see what you do. So Jason, moving back over to you. I do wanna get back to the original question that led to all this with Randy, but I wanna wait one second on that. Tell me about, on the junk side of things, what are some of the, you wanna call 'em complaints or concerns or ideas or brand standards, whatever. What are some of the stuff that pops up on your side where you have to be like, no, like this is the way we need to do stuff and this is kind of how, how we need to do it.
What are some stuff that you, that you kind of hear from, from time to time? Jason?
Jason: I think probably initially out of the gate, because we have such a huge presence and what we're trying to do is build our brand awareness just based on the youth of the brand. So we're really trying to make sure to Randy's point, maintain those brand standards and what we have out in the industry and how we're managing those.
Um, I think we're kind of running into, you know, there's been a few opportunities that have come through [00:25:00] that have had different ideas on how they wanna launch some of the marketing tactics that they have. Um, and I, and I lean back on Randy's comment, you know, we also have an obligation to the rest of the franchisees to maintain those standards.
Right. And but I do wanna say that we do have flexibility and, you know, working with them to say, Hey, let's do let's do some testing. You know, let's figure out what the impact could be. Um, you know. We gotta have growth, we gotta have open ideas on how do we push the envelope. But so just kinda working with 'em, setting timeframes around 'em and trying to say, Hey, this is a good idea, but maybe right now isn't the right time for this.
You know? And I think just based on the youth of our brand, that we're a little bit more sensitive to that right now as we're still trying to build out the you know, the hedgehog concept and trying to make sure we got the core the core values and the core, um services identified. So I think from that standpoint, it's been a little bit, um just had a few ideas that have come in and how we can kind of push that out.
Um, some of the leads where we can generate the [00:26:00] leads and how we get the leads. Those have been kind of coming in as far as different ideas on 'em. So I'd say those have probably been some of the, some of the few, few different ideas that have come in that we've had to face.
Lee: What's one idea that you could talk about that it may be came up and somebody's really kind of passionate about, and you guys ultimately decided not to move forward with it. How did you let that individual know kind of how was it received?
Jason: Well, it was probably one of the more recent ones that, that we kind of walked through is, um, the idea to be able to potentially even brand, um, a box truck for, you know, junk removal purposes and stuff. So, um, you know, franchising is making sure you don't get the same experience at all locations, and we're, we're kind of working through making sure that that customer experience has been the same same service, same trust and every person that walks in that door.
And what's the even the vehicle that, that kind of pulls up, um, what is that experience, you know, come up. We have different versions of trucks as you know but ultimately making sure the branding [00:27:00] is consistent throughout the entire truck. Um, the whole experience kind of end to end on that. So I think that's probably been one of the more recent ones.
Um. But we're working with a few ideas on them. Just kind of recently have just said, Hey, now's not like the time for us. We're really just trying to stay focused on our core and what we know, and we'll put that on the docket and the parking lot items to be able to revisit.
Lee: I can't remember the exact saying, but I think Steve, I think it was Steve Jobs, had a saying about how successful you are is not determined by what you say yes to, but what you say no to. And as you become more successful and you have more resources and all of a sudden you have all the. These ideas and you have the ability to actually do it, but we're limited by time and attention. And saying no is often the best bet in terms of just kind of seeing the course through. And it's very tempting to chase those shiny objects and do those good ideas. So it's,
Jason: Absolutely.
Lee: I imagine you guys are saying no quite often.
Jason: We've got, we've got a lot of creative thinkers in the system, which I really appreciate and I love the dialogue. I love having those collaboration and types of [00:28:00] discussions around, you know, not only where we're at, but where we can take this.
Lee: Excellent. I wanna transition now into launching the two men in a junk Truck brand and just kind of go into what was involved in it. Before we roll into that. One of our show sponsors is specialty truck bodies. So we are just talking about trucks. If you guys are looking for junk removal trucks, go to junk removal trucks for sale.com. We've built and shipped or St. B's built and shipped, which I'm the owner of STB, but it's built and shipped over 200 junk removal trucks over the last handful of years. And we built 'em right here in North Carolina. We'd love to get you a truck if you guys are in the junk business and wanna add to your fleet. Okay. So circling back or coming into launching two men in a junk truck brand, um, Brandy, when did you guys first discuss adding junk removal to moving, like, what's the timeframe like here?
Randy: Late 2019, I think we were, you know, we always go through a periodic, just a visioning process, right. For the brands. And, [00:29:00] and part of what we do is, is seek feedback from our past customers, right? It was just good, bad, the ugly of us, right? And one of the things we asked was, was just, Hey, what other services would you trust two men in a truck for? And just send it out. Right? And we got an overwhelming response, and it was all things we like from yard cleanups to hanging TVs unit, like all different things. And, and the number one thing that came back was hauling away unwanted items, right? Or junk removal. At the same time we had franchisees, you know, starting to get calls in the, in the community just, just for junk removal only, not removing items from a move, right?
Which we would do, you know, consistently as part of our moving process. And so it was like kind of put, you know, two and two together there. It's like, man, customers are asking for it and trust us for it. We got, you know. The public and our local community is asking for it. Franchisees are excited for it. We really went to work, say like, let's go figure this thing out, right? Let's, let's, let's put a plan together, put a team together. And that was the end of 2019. And everyone knows kinda what happened in 2020 in, in April. And so [00:30:00] but that was a good period for us 'cause we, you know, had a chance to, to take what we had learned to that point, everything with supply chains was in flux.
Everything was just, was chaotic during that next, you know, 12 to 18 months. So it gave us a chance to really look at what do we want? Who do we want to be? should it be part of two men on a truck? Should it be a separate, separate brand? But ultimately it came from, from feedback from customers. And, you know, for us, of the big lessons we learned too was junker wheel can't be a byproduct of moving. It just can't. Right. And you've, you've told us that working through you, you know, with, with your guys' support of just, to separate 'em out. And so that really pushed us in 20 20, 23 to look at saying, Hey, like, let's create its own offering its own identity. We've got the, you know, the equity of the two men name through franchising and the 40 years of the brand being in existence. Um, it's missing the junk component. So let's, let's be I'm not a creative guy, we're both engineers, but looking at two men in a junk truck made sense. And so that was kind of the starting point. That's kind of when, you [00:31:00] know, Jason entered the, the, the picture as well of just saying, Hey man, like we've taken this idea.
We've got the carve out. We're working on the operating system, working on the branding, the trade, everything else is in motion, but we need leadership to go help take this forward. So, um, that's been the fun part to watch it kinda with that storming, norming, performing phases.
Lee: Mm-hmm.
Randy: I think we're, we're normalizing some of the things we just talked about in the standards and what we do as best practice, but now it's like taking that and really watching it launch and grow in the next several years ahead.
Lee: I love that. And obviously when you're starting a new business and you're already in and very successful and a very successful. in a large business that you guys have been doing for a long time, that transition is, can be kind of difficult 'cause you have to pay a lot of close attention to the new business without the business that really is kind of paying the bills and doing the best, um, falling by the wayside. And I know a lot of planning goes into this, you have a lot of different people involved. What were some of the steps you took to kind of validate the junk [00:32:00] removals the way you want to go? I know you survey people and you talk to 'em, but internally, I mean, how did you guys figure out what's kinda the feasibility of this?
What's the potential revenue location could have? I'm just curious what went into that process. If you can kinda lay out some specific steps you took. You are an engineer, so I'm sure you've got those.
Randy: Well, one of the first things I did was Google junk removal videos on YouTube and you popped up. So that was, that was step one now. Um, but you know, it really like, I mean, you've been a tremendous just partner and just. A resource for us and, and a good friend along the way here too, of just understanding, you know, it's not just managing people in trucks.
Exactly the same on the moving side. It's much different on the junk removal side, much different. Um, and us getting that out of our mind, it's like, yeah, we can't puff our chest. Say we've done this for 30 some years of, of moving, like, junk's gonna be easy, right? It's, it's not, it's gonna be hard just like any other business. so I think, you know, tapping into you as a, as a resource of kind of learning just what those nuances [00:33:00] could be. And then we also had a passionate group of, like a pilot group of franchisees out of the gate too, of what five markets that were running it hard and running it strong. And it's like, man, the more they got into it, the more they shared feedback, the more excitement they had around it. It just validated like consumer need on junk is different, but there's still the philosophy of service, the philosophy of speed, the philosophy of, of showing up when we say we're gonna be there with a smile in uniform. The professional aspect of it. There, there's some similarities there, and I think we can, we can make this work. And then, you know, you compound that over a year of growth and then you get others interested. And we're learning, we're building the process, we're trying new things. We're investing in new marketing tactics. Like kind of grew from there. So it feels like each month it gets more, there's more, I don't know, say trust confidence, but more so validating what our, our thesis was at the beginning, which was we feel like we can find and keep more customers through our systems, our branding, and our great franchise partners to go [00:34:00] scale this.
Lee: Yeah, more touch points. So you had a pilot group of about five franchise or five that did well, or what was your initial pilot Group size.
Randy: Yeah, the initial was, was just five to start, right? And they're in some bigger markets throughout the US and,
Lee: Mm-hmm.
Randy: um, some smaller markets, but they were really. And you learned this in franchising too, there, you know, there's some influential owners from a voice perspective, Right.
Lee: Right.
Randy: can say things to the, long as I want, but if somebody else says it within the network,
Lee: Yeah.
Randy: has a little more validity to it, right?
Or more weight. I'm, I'm been here long enough to know that, right? And so you, you lean on your influencers, you lean on those. That will give you straight candid feedback too about the business and, and the, the wins and losses. But yeah, that five, but then it, you know, getting through Covid with that group and getting into 22, that group, you know, quickly grew to, I don't know, probably 15, 20 of others that kind of wait to see just a little bit to see how that first group did.
Lee: Mm-hmm.
Randy: they made that first investment in a junk truck and we're running it while we're trying to carve this out into a separate brand. So you [00:35:00] had a lot of of super users out there running this without much structure or system behind it yet,
Lee: Mm-hmm.
Randy: were doing well with it. So it just, it further validated, Hey man, if we can put a system behind it. the structure, the support, um, it's gonna be fun to see what opportunities it creates for people. 'cause at the end of the day, that's what's made two, two men on a truck rate is opportunity.
Lee: Yeah.
Randy: here and they, they find more responsibility. A new opportunity junk was just a new path for us to say,
Lee: Mm-hmm.
Randy: man, how many other people are gonna benefit from this internally? Um, that can step up and, and take on more responsibilities through this new brand.
Lee: Love it man. Great stuff. So Jason, on your side, I know be for being the brand director, I think you're probably a bit more involved on the two minute junk truck franchisees and on the owner side and, and obviously the, the junk side. Um, of the largest challenges I think you guys must have had is you've got some guys that have been running the moving side for a long period of [00:36:00] time and they've done very well. they've made great money. Probably a lot of 'em probably aren't working full-time anymore. They've got people kind of handling stuff and over, you know, 10, 15, 20 years. It gets to be pretty easy to forget about the struggle of starting a new business, which is basically what this is, is starting a new business. So when some of these. First guys came in. Um, you had at one point, maybe if you start with five and you got about 15, I'm sure that you saw there were a few that did a lot better than the others. Uh, what kind of traits and what things were the ones doing better than the others. doing compared to the ones that maybe kind lagged behind?
Jason: Yeah, that's a great question, Lee. Um, that was part of my learning process here as well, you know, as far as, um, you know, what's that success look like from an ownership standpoint. Um, some that were coming in and as Randy mentioned, you know, we took the dedication to separate the brands and I think that was a huge move for us, but.
There were some [00:37:00] owners that struggled with separating the brand, um, giving it that dedicated resources and leadership that it needs every single day. Um, I think some maybe thought that, you know, if we opened it, that the leads just start to flow in because we had the two men equity within our name.
Um, but it wasn't that, you know, it really had to take that that grit to be able to build that brand awareness. Um, yes, you've been doing moving for so long, but there's more often than not that we've had to say junk removal is not moving. Um, it is an entirely different entity. We don't do business you know, over the phone.
We do business in the driveway, right? So you have to have the right people that are walking into that driveway and talking to those customers. Um, so it was kind of a change in mindset as to what the sense of urgency there is around junk removal, having the sales take place actually in the driveway. And understanding that it is a true separation that requires it's kind of its own set of org [00:38:00] structure, right?
You have to have it. There are some shared resources that do make sense, whether it be on their HR side, you know, risk and stuff. But organizationally, there has to be somebody much like, you know, two men decided here. We wake up every single day thinking how do we, you know, further the junk removal side of our business and, and make sure that the each location is successful.
So some, some took we even had some that thought maybe they knew how to do junk removal better than we did. So we had some learning curves there and they had some opportunity to be able to say, okay, well now we know what we didn't work. And I've had a few of those moments here too, right? There's been a few things that we've tried that hasn't, hasn't worked, but that term fail fast.
Um, that is, that is something that you need to do in a new brand because walking through this and building it brand new over this last couple years is, has definitely had some struggles with it and. And I think just kind of identifying 'em and pivot fast has been huge for us. But overall, I think just kind of understanding that it is not [00:39:00] moving, um, 'cause we put the sign out front doesn't mean leads will flow in there.
So we gotta have that new business mentality in that grit and go out there and make that happen. I think that's probably been some of our biggest challenges.
Lee: Yeah, I'm sure it is. I mean, one of the things when you have an amazing brand is people get so used to you doing one thing. They're like, they're movers. They're not junk haulers.
Jason: Yeah.
Lee: I feel like that's probably a huge thing that you had to overcome is educate that consumer
Jason: Yeah.
Lee: own two minute junk truck and that two minute truck now offers moving. What are some of the steps that you took to kind of just kind of pound that into people's heads where they can start associating in a truck with junk removal?
Jason: Yeah. So I'd say it's even in the marketing push that we've had, and I know there's been a number of people who will, like I know on some of our calls, if somebody calls in for. Two minute a truck that we'll even offer like, hey, you've, you know, you now are able to get a free estimate for a junk removal at your location.
You know, either where you're at or where you're going, kind of [00:40:00] thing. And kind of weaving in some of that message to that standpoint. Um, so I think that's been huge for us. Um, obviously we have our own Stick Men type on the branding as well, so that's been a huge leverage for us. Um, and just kind of making sure that, you know, two men's there we've added the junk truck to it.
So I think that there's been able to kind of cross platform show that we have that two men equity within that side.
Lee: Yeah, what an advantage. Well, I mean, I wish I had a pool of, I don't know how many. Hundreds of thousands of customers you guys have. I'm sure it's a lot. I wish I had a pull just to be able to market to and, and cross sell between. And man, that'd be such an advantage. Um, you guys are obviously having to get new client, new customers as well.
Your or your franchises are needing to get new customers also, which I'm assuming do well on the junk side. Hey, it benefits moving too. [00:41:00] [00:42:00] what are some of the marketing things you guys are doing now to get new customers that have never used anybody in two men in a truck?
Jason: I think we've been, we just had our opportunity. We just rolled out our first national promo that we've sent out, and I think that that's been a huge push for us. We saw a lot of leads. Our leads crept up, conversion went up. Um, we're starting to get in more places starting to be more integrated within our B2B conversation.
And they're integrated even in when they go and meet with their kind of in their commerce, right? And their local commerce bit local businesses and letting them know, even at that standpoint that we're now here, um, we're able to be able to provide that junk removal service for 'em. So trying to meet customers where they want to be met, whether it be in the digital side, we're even in the grassroots and putting in even all the out to the yard [00:43:00] signs, as you know, that can be one of the most effective marketing tactics that we have out there.
Um, just being engaged, being a community. Understand that we're out here trying to build the brand awareness every single day, um, and trying to be present.
Lee: On the marketing side of things, were your franchises surprised the difference between marketing, between junk removal and moving, or is it kind of similar and they just, they kind of rolled with it?
Jason: I think it's a little bit different. Um, not having the, you know. 24 years of experience that Randy's got on the moving side. That's one of my benefits is I get to typically have some blinders into this a little bit, but, um, I think it's just timing right now too. It's it's hands on deck. It's gotta have that grit.
We gotta be creative in how we can generate that buzz. Um, and back to your point, it's a new business. You gotta do new business tactics. You have to have that willingness to go out there and, and constantly visit on those con those conversations and [00:44:00] relationships that you've built, lean on them. Um, so I think that's probably been one of the bigger pushes.
Randy: If you don't mind, you, you had shared too, just the, the amount of the capital investment on the marketing side up front.
Jason: Mm-hmm.
Randy: crystal clear about that expectation while still being patient on the return side. Right. And so to your question, I think that's, that's one that we've had to adapt to from our upfront communication with people looking at junk.
Now, previously where, to your earlier point, like you can't just rely on, you know, a single digit percentage of spend, like we. And able to do for, you know, 'cause of the equity side on the moving side, when you're going to start the brand new junk brand. Like you gotta be capitally intensive upfront, be patient on the returns, hit those margins, go after the expense management, but put the, the blood, sweat, and tears into the gorilla marketing too, as part of pounding the pavement.
So it's, it's a commitment of focus and, and energy and but I feel like patience is a big one too, as you're going through it, right. Like three months into it, why am I not profitable like that? It is part of the plan, right? You gotta be, [00:45:00] be, be committed to it.
Lee: Yeah, I think that's an excellent point, is setting those expectations. 'cause the amount of marketing spend based upon the amount of revenue on the junk side when you first get going, if you wanna establish any sort of marketing share is can be high scary, whatever you wanna call it. Um, it's it's a lot to get going for sure. So this kind of segment we've been talking about, the transition into junk removal, I would consider these to be kind of challenges. Um, some cultural adjustments I think are probably part of it. wanna hit on something that's. Around the challenge and the cultural adjustment side of things, not necessarily just about moving or junk removal. I'm curious, um, 2021, you had mentioned ServiceMaster acquired you guys, and there are a lot of junk removal brands out there, much smaller than where you are, they're being approached by private equity companies or, you know, groups of brands, kind of similar to Service Master, and they listen to 'em and they're kind of just cur, you know, curious how it works and that sort of [00:46:00] stuff.
So can you, Brandi, can you walk us through that journey? Um, when did they start talking to you? Was it something you guys were actively looking for? Um, what was the most, what was, what was people's feelings about it internally within the brand? Was it excitement? Was it nervousness? Was it both? Can you just kind of step back those 5, 6, 7 years? Um, and just kind of think back to where you were and just talk us through kind of what was going on in the business at that point.
Randy: Yeah. And so, you know, we were previous to acquisition, we're we're family owned, privately held, right? Didn't have really a board. Our family was our board, right? And so, gave our leadership team a lot of autonomy here to run two men in a truck. And so, you know, you go through the strategic planning exercises of seeing where the family's at with where they wanna be.
And at some point, you know, that that opportunity to sell came up, right? And so we went to really just to market, to partner with a great investment banking firm and, and saying, Hey, just see who's out there,
Lee: Mm-hmm.
Randy: see who's interested. Um, [00:47:00] and that was a journey, right? Like you go from family owned privately held to, you know, the potential private equity ownership.
It's a, it's just a dichotomy shift of, of
Lee: Mm-hmm.
Randy: to your point, the feel. Every emotion you probably can think of, you're probably going through it, right? The, the nervousness, the excitement, the unknowns, the uncertainty. Um, we went through that journey and. To the team's, here's credit. I think we had a clear process of we're gonna vet a potential buyer. Um, how we're gonna grade, how we're gonna judge the questions. We wanna make sure we get answered from our leadership team, separate from the brand of who we're gonna be partnering with, um, their thoughts of what, where they see the opportunities with, with two men in a truck. And, and, and more importantly, just like we do with franchisees when they're going through a discovery process, like you're joining a brand where there's systems, there's process, there's expectations.
Like can a prospect follow those process through the discovery date? 'cause if they can't, they're probably not gonna be great franchisees. Um, likewise on, on the flip [00:48:00] side of looking at, you know, private equity buyers. Like are they professional? Do they have, you know, their key key leaders meeting with us face-to-face? Um, how are they responding to our questions? Right? And, and that was important for us because it is a partnership, right? And so we navigated that that was, you know, several month process of, of management meetings and. Trying to narrow down the right partner. And I'll tell you, like Lee, like all of us independently kind of picked who we felt would be the best partner moving forward.
And, and all of us had picked work, work capital as, as the, as the suitor. to their credit, very professional. Their managing director was on every call with us. They had a team of people just learning more about who we were as, as as human beings as well as, you know, where we saw the opportunities, they shared their thoughts and some of the opportunities just, you know, the mentality aligned.
And so, um, post transaction, yeah, it's a big change, right? You go from from 40 year business of family owned and, and seeing family members to now we're, we're owned by a company that's based out of [00:49:00] Atlanta, right? And so the message to our team, though, you know, the family field was created by us, right? And that's something that we maintained.
My commitment to the owners was, you know, as a franchisee, you shouldn't feel any impact from an agreement. From our, our vision where we're going, our focus, our services. Um, junk removal is one example as an investment in, in new, new lines of revenue. So a lot of change. And, and at the same time, new opportunities.
Right now we've got a team of, of, of individuals looking at other opportunities with, with other brands within service master of synergies to your earlier point, um, how can we help, you know, our residential cleaning with, with potential infusing moving or, or vice versa, right? And so all those things are opportunities for us, but, um, it was definitely a journey.
I think, um, all of us that have gone through it, I've learned a lot, but at the same time, like we're excited for the next seven, 10 years ahead because we've got somebody that has our back, right? And is willing to ask us questions when there, when there's questions, but at the same time saying, [00:50:00] Hey, we trust and support the vision you've set, the culture you've built.
Like go do it. Go run, and whatever we can do to help, we're here. So that's what I value most about work and service Masters involvement with two men in a truck and two men in a junk truck.
Lee: So right after the acquisition was made, um, initially, was it just kind of business as usual, or did you feel like there was changes that were implemented right away?
Randy: No, I think business as usual, like, you know, you, so August, 2021 is when we were, we kind of final, final, um, going through that transition. But we had a plan, we had a strategy, we had a budget,
Lee: Mm-hmm.
Randy: that following fall, we did the same thing for, for 2022. Right. And so, I think that the macro factors impacting moving the last couple years.
You know, we had covid, we had an acquisition, we had one of the toughest housing markets in the last, you know, several decades. Right. Hit us.
Lee: Yeah.
Randy: the resiliency of the brand has shown through. Right. So, no, there's a, there's a transitional period and as we've gotten into it, [00:51:00] um, you know, there's, there's always change.
But at the same time, we have a strong voice here. We have 200 people working outta Lansing, Michigan. We didn't. We didn't move, we didn't relocate our corporate office. We've taken on a lot of responsibilities for the other brands, which I love. 'cause it's, it's confidence in our teams here to handle it.
Lee: Mm-hmm.
Randy: and it's opportunities for people here to step up and take on more roles.
So, to your point, yeah, there, there's a transition. Then you get into three year strategy planning and that's, those are the cool things and exciting things for me
Lee: Mm-hmm.
Randy: Like, where could we go
Lee: Yeah.
Randy: could we get there faster? And so I think that's what Rourke has brought to you is just kind of more of that structure around the planning and strategy, which no knock prior to it, what we had done before, but this, this is a different, different way to approach, you know, 36 months out.
Lee: I love it. And we're actually gonna go into talking a little bit about vision here in just a, just a moment too. But I wanna touch on a couple other things. Um, cross-selling between brands. I hadn't really thought much about that, but ServiceMaster has what, a dozen or more different brands from cleaning [00:52:00] brands to Roof. I think it's, a few different brands associated with you guys.
Randy: brands. Yep, six
Lee: Thanks Brian.
Randy: Disaster restoration. You got commercial cleaning, residential, and you've got bioremediation. Then you've got the, the moving and, and the junk removal brands that are all under service Master's umbrella.
Lee: Do you guys feel like you do a pretty good job cross-selling between those? Or is that something that, um, you want to continue trying to work and expand on?
Randy: it's a work in progress to your point. Like,
Lee: Yeah.
Randy: when we, when we were acquired, we went from one entity working on junk two to joining a family of brands, different operating systems, different backend systems, different accounting platforms. So there is that, that transition, right? To try and harmonize those areas.
Lee: Mm-hmm.
Randy: I I would say we're, we're okay. We're not great yet at that. And
Lee: Yeah.
Randy: and the one thing I give and that we take a lot of concern is the consumer experience, right? We're not in the business of sharing, selling. Like, we gotta make sure Jason mentioned this meeting the customer where they wanna be met.
Lee: Yeah.
Randy: and feeling like it's an organic introduction of the other brands or is at the right time.
And [00:53:00] so that's something that we're truly walking with before we run to, because we wanna make sure we protect the experience overall with the consumers.
Lee: How do you navigate that? 'cause it's gotta be so, don't know if you use the word tempting, but that's the only thing that's really coming to my mind right now. You have this, have these six brands. There's a lot of customers there. The data pri, the privacy is, is really important.
Randy: Yes.
Lee: you kind of navigate, how do you make those introductions kind of more organically?
Is there any steps or any things you guys do?
Randy: it's kind of hand, hand combat, right? It's, it's might be inefficient, but it's more impactful this way of just introducing the owners in each of the markets. Like, you know, service Master restore, disaster restoration.
Lee: Sure.
Randy: got a lot of franchisees now, and the two men now working on the junk side that are now in, have a relationship and in a, in a good relationship with the owners of Restore.
So
Lee: Mm-hmm.
Randy: of a, you know, ca event or some sort of weather event
Lee: I see.
Randy: where they need Packout services now, the relationship's already there versus saying, Hey, everyone's gonna be responsible and required to go work with everyone else [00:54:00] in these family brand. It's not gonna go over
Lee: Gotcha.
Randy: got different personalities. They may have had previous experiences in a market 10 years ago that wasn't good
Lee: Yeah.
Randy: even know about. Um, so you have to, it it is inefficient. It is tempting. It is exciting to see where it could go, but. You gotta approach it the right way. And then you take those that are doing well and then you just leverage their story with everyone else and let them share right, of what
Lee: Yeah,
Randy: and to get others on board.
So, made a lot of progress in the last six months. I think we've got a lot of, of ideas and thoughts over the next 12 months ahead,
Lee: yeah,
Randy: get to, to be smarter, stronger, organically, while at the same time looking at better ways to automate some introductions into the consumer journey.
Lee: yeah. I think, I can't remember exact words you used. I think you said good. You're good at it. Not great. It's a work in progress. I feel like. Everything I do is a work in progress, so.
Randy: hundred.
Lee: Thank you. You have that mindset. That's great. But I, I, I love that perspective, man. I just feel like that's so powerful.
Um, I wouldn't have thought of it like that. And I, I think that's great. So just kind of organically getting [00:55:00] the owners introduced, just basic networking. It's spreading throughout the different list client list or making introductions between customers and all that way, just kind of nurturing that the best you can.
It's great. Jason, on your side you're very involved with the two minute and junk truck owners. Are they kind of actively doing some of that? Or is that something
Jason: Actually, it was kind of funny. I, I loved how leading in on, you know, there's been, more often than not, we've had some questions that in from. Franchisees like, Hey man, how do I, how do I get involved with my Restore guy? Or even Merry Maids, you know, how do we, and I'm like, listen, we can make the introduction, but the success is gonna be at the local level.
Um, really, you know, much like what Randy started this whole conversation office building those relationships with our franchisees that goes between each franchisees themselves, right? They gotta reach out and say, Hey, we have opportunity. We've kind of helped foster facilitate to try to kinda get the intros into their local.
Um, but ult ultimately it's just on them at that local level to say, Hey, [00:56:00] um, I think, you know, if it's, if you're talking to a MER made location, if you will, you know, you guys have you guys are in the home already. You may know the owners or their plans if they're moving or if they got junk removal needs and.
You know, how do we share those leads out? How do we get you at least introduced to each other and so we can kind of leverage that, um, opportunity. So we've had some that are already doing it, which has been great. I think, I think some, some maybe even had a, a conversa or a relationship I think with Restore, even before we were in in working with work, I think even beforehand.
So, um, it's definitely it's definitely an opportunity and there's success to be had there, but, um, I think it's really at that local level for 'em,
Lee: Excellent. I love it. So it's that, that really sounds like something that an independent owner could do. Also on their side, if a guy owns a JU removal business or a dumpster side, just making relationships with other business owners and trying to kind of feed them business and expect some in return, I could see where that could work on, that side as well.
Jason: for sure.
Randy: [00:57:00] People of business, right? Like you said, man,
Lee: So, yeah.
Randy: relationships locally,
Lee: Yeah.
Randy: of mind and you're, you're, you're helping give back to get right. I think that's a win-win
Lee: Serve, its.
Randy: absolutely
Lee: Yep. So good. Okay. I think we've covered several things, and people can kind of realize this just by the conversations that we've had. But somebody's looking to open up a business who, well, let's start with this. Who's kind of your ideal franchise partner? What does, what do they look like?
What's their experience like? Kind of walk us through that. Jason, if you'd like to take that question.
Jason: Yeah, for sure. Um, I like it. I think that's a great question. You go back to Jason, what have you learned, you know, since you've been on board, you know, and there's been, there's been a few of those learning opportunities with the owners that are coming on board. Um, I think it's somebody who's going to be, you know, I have to have some financially sound.
Um. Investment ready to happen. Like Randy, you know, commented, it's a marketing heavy upfront. To understand that they have to have some patience in, [00:58:00] in the business. You know, that brand awareness and the investment upfront does come back and have a return on it. We just gotta be able to build that path to it.
Um, somebody understands that, hey, you gotta be engaged in the C community. And this is a relationship based industry for sure. So, um, understanding what that means. Um, having some level of, um, you know, operations and efficiency and what it means to be in junk removal, truck efficiency, truck utilization, right?
Um, and having the right people in the seats. Um, I think that we've had a few, you know, locations try and figure out they thought they had the right person or they were going to be out, be comfortable in those conversations, whether it be in the driveway or overcoming objections on the phone. Um, but I think it's a matter of trying to find that leader who's gonna have that grit and have that ownership on a every single day basis.
Um, I think those are the people that we'll probably be looking for and that have an understanding on that side.
Lee: And. Randy, if you guys are able to discuss this, what type of is there a type of net worth you're, that you're looking [00:59:00] for in an individual? I know like McDonald's post a certain amount of net worth. What type of initial investment are they looking at? Um, in terms of the initial investment? Does that all have to come from cash?
Are there cash reserves you require? Are there, um can they finance a portion of it? Whatever you're able to discuss. That'd be great.
Randy: Yeah. The answer to that is yes. Um, they, they're able to come at it with different, different mechanisms. From a funding perspective, we do disclose our, our, um, our net worth requirements and initial investment primarily with team, team Metro, you're, it is trucks, right? You have the choice to, to lease or buy, but, um, and then finding truck parking.
You don't have a, a large build out like you have with some of the rest quick service restaurants where you've got a lot of equipment or, or ovens or things like that that you have to go into. It's basically finding a facility that's pretty close to, know, where you can get to your consumers and more importantly, where employees can get to you, but also where you can park your trucks and, you know, trucks aren't, aren't cheap any longer, but you're
Lee: Yeah.
Randy: hundred thousand per truck, right?
And. And that investment. And then, you know, [01:00:00] we, we build that, that plan with them as they go through discovery into training to say, what's local marketing launch look like? And, and what should your, you know, your return look like moving forward. So that's all part of the, the franchising fund of the disclosure laws and, and what, what, comes into it.
But,
Lee: Got it.
Randy: we try and vet that right outta the gate, just from the, the capital requirements and qualifying requirements when, when somebody's first looking at the opportunity.
Lee: Okay. And hey guys, just quick question for y'all. Kind of off to topic here. Excellent there. So that's some awesome feedback from both of you, both of you guys in terms of, um, what you're looking for on the franchise side. What I'm curious about, obviously we've talked about a lot of benefits here and I think people will just kind of realize them on your own. But Jason, if somebody's looking to get into business again we just asked about what you're looking for from them.
Why would they wanna work with two men in a junk truck?
Jason: Yeah, that's a good question. So I think one of our opportunities that we have is being able to kind of leverage the you know, 40 years that we have on the two [01:01:00] men and understanding what right looks like. .So kind of. You know, we're not starting in a, an entirely new franchise or kind of base, if you will.
Like Randy said, we've got a lot of people within the Michigan support center that are supporting the both brands as well. So we have a strength to be able to hit the ground running from that standpoint, which means that we've already been able to determine all the right policy standards and what can we do to put even training material in place courses.
And so it's kind of like we've had a headstart on what it means to be able to start a whole new franchise and get that system in place. So I think that's probably been one of our biggest benefits is to be able to lean on, um, all of those years of experience, which also comes with a little bit of a challenge.
You know, they've set a very high bar in what it means to support customer base and so we want to make sure that we maintain that as well on our side of the business.
Lee: Jason, you guys are selling individual two minute junk truck franchises now. Correct.
Jason: Yes, sir.
Lee: that are not as part of the system.
Jason: Correct. [01:02:00] Yeah. We've got our first location over in Connecticut. He came on board, it is the end of 24. Been up and running and we've got a pretty strong pipeline right now with a number of other opportunities coming in to be able to join the brand itself.
Lee: And are you able to sell a franchise in all 50 states at this point?
Jason: I think, um, I know we just went, went dark with the FTD filing right now. Um, Washington State I think might be one that we're not in. Um, and New Jersey I think are the two that jump off the page to me, um, that we're not able to.
Lee: Yeah. But most, most of them you guys are good for. So
Jason: Yep.
Lee: to look into it. New Jersey will be interesting how you navigate the a 9 0 1 requirement on the licensing. Um, 'cause that takes a long time.
Randy: we, yep. You,
Lee: Yeah.
Randy: that with the straight Yeah. We're, we're working through that and we
Lee: Yeah.
Randy: it's a, it's a process.
Lee: Yeah, that's interesting from a franchise perspective on how you how you handle that. [01:03:00] Alright, well, very, very good. Brandi, I would be curious if we heard Jason's take on why somebody would wanna partner with two men and a junk truck. Um, do you have anything you wanna add to that?
Randy: Yeah. I, I think, you know, to your point, like I. If you're looking to invest in a brand or franchise system is a, do your values align with the, the company's values, first and foremost. Right? Um, 'cause if they don't, it's gonna be a conflict right outta the gate. Right. And secondly, um, reach out to the existing owners, right?
And so, you know, like they're the voice. They're the ones that'll give you, you know, everything from what they've experienced. So take that. And I think, you know, from, from what we're able to offer to Jason's point, like, you know, the system, the support, the resources. We hope after Discovery day, they get a chance to meet and see the faces behind each of the areas, whether it's finance, hr, whatever it is, marketing, sales. Um, they meet our IT leaders, like of who's, who's behind the scenes building our operating system, our, our BI and intelligence. Like, [01:04:00] if they have those strong relationships and they feel good about it, um, they get the franchisee validation and they align with our values, then it's like. It's gonna be a good fit, right?
Because we can have the greatest system, and then if we don't align on those areas, it's gonna be just a tumultuous time together. And life's too short, candidly, for that in my
Lee: Yeah.
Randy: um, it's people, right? So align with people, the values, talk to as many as you can. Um, there'll be pros and cons of franchising, just like there's pros and cons of doing it on your own, right?
And so some of the cons are that you might not be able to do what you wanna do at that given moment with your idea, we have to vet that against, can we, can we replicate it? Can we train it? Can we measure it and roll it out and support it? And so those things might not fit with a 120% entrepreneur that wants to go do something like pink trucks tomorrow, or green trucks or whatever.
Like, I got this idea that I wanna go do now. And it's like, whoa.
Lee: Yeah.
Randy: let's, talk about that, right? And so those things can be, you know, a con as are, you know, there's, there's fees and there's other things associated with, with, you know, [01:05:00] being a, a part of the two minute and a truck or two minute and a junk truck brand.
Lee: Mm-hmm.
Randy: those things all ought be weighed out and at the end of the day. know, do you feel confident and comfortable with who you're partnering with? If it's franchising,
Lee: It's the brand though, man. I mean, that's the, you guys have brought up some good stuff, but it's the brand. I mean, it's like. You know, 20 years ago, if I could have bought up a 1-800-GOT-JUMP franchise, I'd bought up every single one I could you know, just you know, back then it didn't, but in a way in, in a way it's even more recognizable.
So it's like there's, you know, you guys have a really recognizable brand, but you have all these open markets. So I think that's the, that's the powerful thing there for sure.
Randy: getting started, man. And yeah, you
Lee: I love it.
Randy: I.
Lee: Love it. Well, you mentioned just getting started, that kind of segues perfectly into my next question, which is you guys are sitting in Lansing, Michigan and it's, I dunno if it's chilly right now, it's just warming up.
Jason just cut his grass. He had to do it twice 'cause he was so far behind two times in a row there. Had to adjust the deck height halfway through. let's let's, let's transport ourselves from [01:06:00] sitting in Lansing, Michigan, and let's go off to a nice warm beach. North Carolina beaches aren't quite warm yet yet.
So let's go down to Florida. Let's transport ourself to the white sandy beaches of St. Peters St. Petersburg in in Florida. um, let's, let's put our phones away. We have no phones. Um, we're just kind of out there by ourself, maybe by maybe a spouse, whatever. We're sitting out on the beach and we close our eyes and we get to thinking about work and life and vision and specifically what's the vision?
What's everything look like at two men in a junk truck five years from now, 10 years from now? are you guys hoping to accomplish? Randy, I'd love to start with you.
Randy: I think, you know, nailed it, like, you know, we've got the two men in a truck, 40 years in business, different, you know, is, I hope within five years, like the two men in a junk truck brand has established that identity on its own, with its own unique culture, own unique people working in it [01:07:00] consistent franchise development with new signings, you know, owners that are happy and reinvesting in more locations. Um, we're really focusing on, on quality and support right now. We don't want to go sell a hundred markets. Like for us it's let's do this slow in the right way, right? And so my eyes are closed. I feel like in five years, man, that brand is strong for the right reasons, which is the culture is strong, franchisees are engaged, we have great relationships, they're reinvesting in the brand consumers love our service
Lee: I love it. And Jason, on your side, I mean, what do you see? How many truck, how many trucks are you at? How many franchise partners are you at? I mean, let's you know, I love Randy. I love Randy's answer, but.
Randy: Jason, how many are we at?
Jason: Yeah. Yeah. He's, he's gonna hold me to it now, Lee, but you know, I'd love to have that, you know, in the next five years you talk, you know, I'd love to see it up to like 200 locations out there. Um, I'm with you reinvesting back into it where we have multiple u multi-unit owners that [01:08:00] are out there.
They've seen the value in what it means to be in junk removal. Um, we have been able to carve out not only our name, but our, our share of market. Um, that, you know, we're, we're here, we're present. We're, we're not just something that's gonna be a fly by night that we've established ourselves, that we are a player in the game.
I want to be able to advance the brand in a technology standpoint and a sales standpoint. I wanna make sure that we're in that vein and that we're meeting the customer where they want to be met. Um, and that people have kind of, you know, come alongside us and made the investment with us. I think that it's, um, it's important to be able to support the franchisees in, in all of what they want to take on.
And, and I, I take a lot of pride in that and being able to hear those conversations. I take just as much pride to be able to kind of show the opportunity within the Michigan support Center and the org structure that we have and being able to move people forward there as well and give them opportunity to grow with a growing brand.
Right. So I think overall, I think just trying to put more trucks out there, trying to be in all 50 states and, and maybe more as you know, you [01:09:00] know, two men, a truck has a few larger footprint than that today, so. They, they hold a high bar in regards to what, what right looks like. And we want to make sure that we've we've done that, but we've done that in the two minute adjunct truck way with the, the right core values behind it.
Lee: if you could pull a number out of total locations and it's just, Randy's not gonna hold you to it. It's just like one that just pops into your head right now, five years. Where do you hope to be at?
Jason: If I had to pick one, it'd be like 250. Um,
Lee: There you go. Randy. There's your number,
Jason: yeah, he's, he's right. He, I'm surprised he didn't, he normally will lean over and write that down in his notepad. Okay. It's recorded, so, yeah. Um, so yeah, no, and the thing is, and there's reasons why I say, right. I mean, obviously strength and growth within the brand, but quite frankly, you know, we're in, the majority of what we're at today are in metro markets and the modern markets.
I think we just got our first mod market in there, the smaller size. Huge opportunity in that, in that base. So I think that, you know, when you start to consider both the metro of the mod the countries that we can go [01:10:00] into and where we can start to really have that growth, um, I definitely think is a holistic, that that number is doable for us.
Lee: 2 55 years, we'll have to check, check back
Jason: Please do.
Randy: Yeah. Yeah.
Lee: And, in 2030.
Randy: Yeah, that's, I love it. But we're, we're so with junk like focused Leon, like the next 12 months, right? Like,
Lee: Yeah. Gotta be,
Randy: to work on, to your earlier point, the lessons learned, the foundational elements of understanding like what those true KPIs should be, that our behaviors are aligned with what we're expecting. I give a lot of credit to our franchisee that just jumped in early on as part of this and are willing to continue to invest. And so, yeah, the two 50 is great out there too. But you know, like we're really honing in, hey, 2025, early 2026, let's maximize spring, uh, season ahead, fall cleanups next spring. Like, working towards those areas is very in the weeds at the moment.
But it's,
Lee: yeah.
Randy: the timing of where the brand is knowing if we do those, the two 50 will be there. Um, if we do it the other way, it's gonna be, it's, it's just, it's a tougher world to, to say, Hey, [01:11:00] let's go ahead two 50 without doing the intangibles right now.
Lee: You know, from an outside perspective though, somebody obviously very ingrained in the, the junk removal world, um, you guys probably don't think about it like this. Maybe you do. I think you're very focused internally as you should be on always just becoming better today than you were yesterday. from my standpoint, I think five to 10 years from now, you guys should be right up in the mix with with Junk King and, and College Hs and, and got junk in terms of size and locations. um, do you ever feel that pressure Jason running this brand? Do you ever think about that? You know, that, that this is such a huge name and that's expectations that go along with it. I mean, in my opinion, you guys should be right up there in five to 10 years.
Jason: Yeah, I'd be lying to say that that hasn't crossed my mind, but I will tell you the first thing that as fast as that comes in, the, the thing that trumps that for me is the opportunity you know, opportunity to be able to lead the team, live at the tip of the spear and, and lead into what, what, you know, Randy and the team [01:12:00] envisioned it to be.
I think it's the opportunity to be able to kind of work with the franchise network. And continue to grow into that vision. So yeah, it can be a little a little daunting to think about that, but honestly, it's, it's out outweighed by the opportunity that it provides.
Lee: Love it. Randy, from your side, anytime you become a CEO of a major corporation, CEO president and everything of a major corporation, there's pressure associated with that. Um, how do you handle pressure?
Randy: Still figuring it out 24 years later. I. think, um, I think the biggest thing for me is, is there's a, there's routines, right? And habits. It's not the goals you set, it's the routines and habits that matter more, right? And so making sure I'm intentional with that, um, I think the easiest way to get burned out is you forget why you do what you do. so when you're going through these press, when these pressure situations stressful times, the macro, all that stuff is like, don't forget, like specifically with two minute Truck, our purpose is to move people forward like that. I'm helping. A mover, [01:13:00] become a driver, a driver, become a manager, a manager ultimately joining our scholarship program, becoming an owner. That's my why, right? If we're seeing a franchisee expand into a new market with their bench, like that's our why. And so for me, it's reminding myself, my why controlling the controllables. Especially I know those that can be cliche at time, but if you're not focused in the right area on what you can impact today within your control, it's gonna be a futile effort trying to, trying to figure that out.
Right? So yeah, handling pressure and, and having a clear plan, right? I mean, like if plan's the plan, we're all on, on board with it. It's gonna change as we go throughout the year. But, being a crystal clear of what success looks like 12 months from now is, is a good way to make sure we're working backwards to make sure we're attaining it, versus we're stressed out about something that happened yesterday. step back and look at the bigger picture and what you're doing. Is it gonna lead to long-term value?
Lee: You know, as you're going through and you've made a 12 month plan, obviously things can change. Um economic conditions can [01:14:00] change, tariffs can be introduced, interest rates can go up and, that can, does that change your goal? Like, do you guys ever change your goal based upon what's actually happening?
Or are you somebody that sets one and you're just gonna see it all the way through and kind of see how the chips fall?
Randy: Yeah, I mean that's part of having, you know, being part of bigger brands too, is you're doing, you know, monthly check-ins. You're doing a quarterly check-in, you're doing like a six PL halfway through the year. How are we projecting to be, um, it doesn't change our ultimate operating plan target of what we wanna go after. It's just really clarifying what, what reality is at the moment. Right. And so, and then do we need to pivot in any different direction to say, Hey, we're gonna go work more on this area versus that, based on what we're seeing? So we set the target, we meet monthly, we review quarterly and, and throughout the year to say, how are we projecting? But at the same time, like we still go to work on, especially during this period on the housing side, right? Of like, where are we reinvesting in our technology? Where are we reinvesting in our systems being in bringing better [01:15:00] reporting and intelligence back to our franchisees, right? How are we creating a better customer journey right now?
So when things turn, we're gonna be in a much better place than we were going into this storm.
Lee: Mm-hmm.
Randy: that's where, when I talk about controlling the controllables, like we could worry about the interest rates or tariffs or what's happening with can, like all that stuff can be out there
Lee: Yeah.
Randy: you, you can't manage pressure well that way. Or you say, Hey man, we we're working on the sales enablement process. We're working on some of the backend technologies. We're working on the consumer facing tech that's gonna make their lives easier. Like those things are all things we're planting right now that when things flip or no matter what happens, we will be a better brand from it, um, while adding new franchises along the way.
And so that's, that's kind of the day in the life, I guess. That's
Lee: the deliverables. You know, do the things that you that, that, that you do, the actions that are gonna lead, hopefully lead to the result and just make sure you're doing those and measure them. That's kind of what I'm hearing from you is, um, we can control the actions we take. We can't necessarily control the end result and things that [01:16:00] happen in the environment around us.
So create words of wisdom there.
Randy: appreciate it.
Lee: Well guys, this has been a awesome episode and what I would say for the audience that's really listened to this, I want you to, guys, to kind of think about what you're hearing here. Um, you've got some strong leadership. You got two great guys. Got Randy. This is his career.
He is been doing this almost 25 years now. you've got Jason, Jason's real strong on the leadership side of things. He's been a part of the brand for a few years now. trusted brand. It's a big name, huge name. Two men and a truck. Two men and a junk truck. You got awesome cross sale opportunities amongst several different brands.
Six brands in total within the service master and master system. And you've got true scalability here. Jason says they're gonna, it's gonna be 250 locations in five years. So that's moving, that's moving pretty quick. And so that means if you guys wanna be a part of this, and I think you should think about it 'cause it's a big name and, great leadership like we just talked about.
So if you wanna be a part of it, how can people get in touch with you guys? Jason, if they're interested in buying a franchise, what do they need to do?
Jason: Yeah, we have a Fran Dev website [01:17:00] through you can find it either in going through the ServiceMaster website, through the brands, and then there's a Fran dev location. Always. You can go to the two men junk truck and or feel free to reach out to me direct. Um, it's at Jason Ga. Two minute junk truck.com as well.
Lee: Very good. Randy, any final words of any thoughts or final words of wisdom from you before we wrap today's episode?
Randy: You probably heard way too much from me. I just thank you, Lee, for everything you've done and what you're doing in this community. I think it's, shows your true character too, of just you're pretty much willing to share information knowing like. There's a lot of customers out there, there's a lot of market share out there to be had, but at the same time, like trying to do it the right way.
And that's what I appreciate the most is, you know, you've, you've shared a lot of those intangibles of just ways to do it the right, but you still gotta go do the work. You still gotta go
Lee: I.
Randy: effort in. You still gotta make the investment and put the time and, and energy into this this endeavor no matter whether you're going through franchising or not, um, to build something that hopefully you look back on in 10 years and be [01:18:00] very fulfilled from. But you've done it because you've done it the right way. And I
Lee: Yeah.
Randy: doing that, man.
Lee: I
I appreciate that. I thank you guys for coming on and giving me your time this afternoon. I think there's some good stuff we've uncovered here. Um, everybody again, this has been Randy Shaka and Jason Galee. I. From two Men and a Junk Truck and the two Men and a Truck Service Master brands. I think there's some awesome stuff that we've gained from it. Today's episode was bought, brought to you by Specialty Truck Bodies. Again, if you guys are looking for junk removal trucks, head on over to junk removal trucks for sale.com hope you enjoyed today's episode. Please click that like button and subscribe depending on what you're watching it on. We are available anywhere.
You can hear podcasts now, so whatever direction you want to go to, hear us, find us on there, and we'll see you on the next episode. Everybody have a great day.
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