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The WorkOps Podcast is your weekly conversation with HR leaders and People Ops practitioners doing the real work.
In every episode we dig into one story. A process that went sideways, a system that just didn't work, and what someone actually did about it. Packed with practical lessons you'll want to bring back to your team. Whether you're supporting 500 employees or 5,000, this is how the best People leaders are building for what comes next.
Weston & Jeet
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[00:00:00]
I think we worked on this from, you know, I, I, from when I had started, so probably, like, six months, you know, until we were, like, we're, you know, ready to go to the, you know, or five months until we're ready to go to the e-staff.
You know, we'd-- I already started you know, starting- ~Um, ~some of the solutions like, you know, reaching out to vendors, having demos- Yeah ... like doing a lot of background learning so I could see what was possible, yes. But, but yes, I mean, m- months of planning and really wanting to be, you know, buttoned up when we're, you know, we're going to the exec staff to ask for- Yeah
a lot of money and, and then also the investment from our other peers across the people team.
Welcome to the Work Ops podcast. In every episode, we dig into one story, a process that went sideways, a system that just didn't work, and what someone actually did about it. It's packed with practical lessons that you'll want to bring straight back to your team. This podcast is brought to you by Kinfolk, the AI service desk built for HR.
I'm your host, Jeet Mukherjee, and with that, let's dive in.
~Um,~
[00:01:00] Hey, everybody. ~Uh, ~today I'm joined by Weston Fillman, who's the director of people operations at 1Password. Wes, thank you so much for joining us today. Before we jump into things, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you chose HR? Yeah. ~Uh, ~well, hi, Jeet. Thanks for having me, ~uh,~ today. I'm really excited to have this conversation.
~Um, ~so I am relatively new at 1Password. ~Uh, ~I'm a director of people operations and employee relations, and I've, ~uh,~ been here since January. ~Um, ~but my career in, like, people operations and HR is honestly not a straight line. ~Um, ~after college, I went to a liberal arts school. ~Um, ~I went to graduate school for higher education.
I always thought I would work in college admissions and, you know, did that a bit, ~um,~ as a graduate intern. But after grad school, I actually did Teach For America, and I taught kindergarten in Baltimore. ~Um, ~and that really experience kind of shaped how I learned quickly how to meet people, you know, what talent and opportunity really mean, and you know, how-- I learned a lot about managing people, [00:02:00] you know, managing a group of kindergartners.
But I took my first job in the people space while still inside TFA on their recruiting team. So did that for a bit, and then I got recruited, ~um,~ by Google, ~um,~ to join the talent acquisition function there. ~Um, ~I eventually pivoted into a people programs manager role, where I focused a lot on operational excellence in, ~um,~ our talent function, ~um,~ and on diversity programs, ~uh,~ for tech staffing and for Google Cloud, ~um,~ while it was going through a period of rapid growth.
And that's where I kind of got this interest in building systems, you know, versus kind of the core TA piece. ~Um, ~and then I-- after that, I moved into business partnering and employee engagement at Facebook and Zendesk, and my scope kept on growing. ~Um, ~and before I was here at 1Password, ~um,~ I took a HR director role, ~um,~ at, ~uh,~ Juniper Networks, ~um,~ where I led a lot of HR transformation, ~um,~ type projects, some employee engagement projects.
So, ~um,~ I've always really liked, you know, kind of looking at systems and systems change for organizations, ~um,~ and how we do our people processes and making sure that they work for everyone. Nice. There, there's a [00:03:00] definite thread there of wanting to help people do their best and helping them grow, whether that's always from college admissions to Teach For America- kindergarten, and then all the way through. What a career you had so far already with all the different logos that you, that you've racked up. Yeah. If you asked me like 15 years ago, like this is what I would be doing, I would've probably thought you were crazy. Yeah, no, it's, it's a great combination.
You've got kind of the, the real Venn diagram of the people stuff as well as the systems thinking, and it feels like you've really landed in a, in a really great role at 1Password since the beginning of this year, which I'm sure feels like it's gone very, very quick already. Yeah. So tell us a little bit more about, ~um,~ the story that we're gonna talk about, starting with, ~uh,~ what kind of company were you working for where this particular dysfunctional HR process, ~uh,~ or system was in place?
Yeah. So, ~uh,~ I joined a large enterprise tech company, you know, over 10,000 employees. ~Um, ~and one of the first things that I inherited was the results of [00:04:00] an internal hiring audit, ~um,~ as well as the results of a series of focus groups we were doing with, ~um,~ employees on their, you know, experience with the organization, on people and culture, and on how our people processes, ~um,~ worked.
And one of the consistent themes that, ~um,~ you know, that was present were, were that in systems like talent acquisition, in the way that we did like compensation equity, in things like our job family architecture, that there was inconsistency, that things were unstructured or process and tools were outdated.
~Um, ~nobody built things with bad intentions, but the company had grown a lot, ~um,~ particularly in the, in the five years probably prior to me joining, but we hadn't made a lot of longer term strategic investments in, you know, the tools and systems, ~um,~ you know, that were guiding the both people's teams' work, but also the employee experience, ~um,~ you know, that was aligned to that.
Yeah, got it. It, it sounds like that classic example of the systems and the processes and tools haven't quite caught up with the growth that the, the company experienced- Yeah ... and [00:05:00] then you were brought in to be like, "Hey, come and fix it." Yeah. So one example of that was, you know, within talent acquisition, like every function was kind of running their own version of the hiring process.
Like there was some standardization, but some teams had structured interview panels, others were having conversational kind of interviews, like without rubrics or without, ~um,~ you know, behavioral type questions. This kind of hiring, like, was, you know, leading to, you know, issues, you know, around equity and experience and, you know, really limiting, you know, the, the types of candidates we were bringing in.
~Um- ~You know- Yeah ... one of the other things that, ~um,~ th- like by doing an audit, y- you know, telling us about this broken hiring process was that, you know, we need to like fis- fix this pro- like, problem from a systemic approach, and we need to think about the tools that we're using, ~um,~ as well. ~Um, ~w- at the time, they were using a legacy ATS that I will not
name, ~um,~ but, you know, it was causing a lot of problems in just the workflow and, ~uh,~ just that our recruiters have, the workflow and experience that our [00:06:00] hiring managers have. ~Uh,~ one of the first things, ~um,~ you know, that I did in working with my partners in talent acquisition was, go out into the field and, you know, look at what tools are available.
Couldn't get rid of the ATS, you know, so, but- ... ~uh, ~but we, you know, could put a bolt-on system on top of it. And really, you know, this was a couple years ago, you know, and we're certainly in a different AI space today than we were then. Yes. But there's still, you know, some still, new AI-driven tools that we could use to improve our sourcing ability, improve the workflow, and also improve, like, our ability to match, ~uh,~ you know, candidates that are good fits for roles.
And really we're, you know, wanted to kinda be a little bit on the forefront of, of bringing some of those tools into our system. ~Um, ~the other thing, you know- Yeah ... ~uh, ~we looked at was creating structure and process and, and creating a, a hiring process redesign really from end to end, adding in new steps, like in pre-briefs and debriefs, ~um,~ creating structured interview guides that align to company values, and then, ~um,~ also creating, ~uh,~ standardization across every business unit in, in how, you know, [00:07:00] how the hiring process should run, and then ultimately facilitating, you know, training for, you know, hundreds or thousands of hiring managers and, and then, you know, ultimately, like, thousands of interviewers, ~um,~ across the organization.
So really taking that systems-level approach. Like, this hiring process was driving us on the people team crazy. It was driving- Mm-hmm ... hiring managers crazy. It was, you know, really leading to poor outcomes lack of diversity in hiring, you know, as well. By focusing on the structural shift there, ~um,~ we were able to, i- improve the efficacy and time to hire, but also the, you know, im- improve the quality of hire as well.
~Um, ~ One thing, you know, too, that I should mention is, ~uh, ~in this broader project of kind of, of transformation on our people processes, it really quickly showed us how many things are interconnected. ~Um, ~because so we were working... One of the first things we kicked off was this, ~uh,~ was this process redesign for talent acquisition.
But very quickly, it, you know, s- also showed some of the holes that we had in having an outdated, ~um,~ job family [00:08:00] architecture. So it's like you can build a new house, but, like, you walk inside and then the, the floor plan's wrong or, like, there's no foundation. So, ~um,~ so in, in part of this work and, you know, in my role in looking over, you know, kind of as the overseer of these, ~um,~ you know, different projects, was to be able to, ~um,~ see the interconnected dependencies on we need a strong job family architecture because that leads to quality in hiring, that leads to our ability to do better performance management.
~Um, ~and then that also connects to how we have, greater equity and total rewards. And, ~um,~ so yeah, I can pause there, but I'm happy to, happy to share a little- ~Uh, ~I don't want to ramble on too much. No, I, I, I love that. I just wanted to, wanted to keep you going. ~Um, ~there, there are so many- Yeah ... so many threads in there and so many questions that, that- Yeah
~uh, ~come to mind off the back of that. And, ~um,~ it's really interesting what you said initially that, hey, you went out to look for tools in the market, but actually when, when you dug into it a little bit more, it sounds like a really interconnected system of solutions that you have to [00:09:00] fix, and you're, you're kind of behaving like a product manager of, like, once you start pulling- Yeah.
at a thread, you're like, "Hey, actually, this is connecting to that thing." And, ~um, ~where did you start? 'Cause it sounds like, yes, you went out to look for tools, but actually there was- Yeah ... a bit of discovery going on. What did that process- Yeah ... look like to really unearth- Yeah ... okay, we've got to fix something here?
Yeah. The initial, the, I think the... How it started was looking at the employee life cycle and looking at all of those touch points, like, in our systems and our process, ~um,~ and creating really a structured, you know, plan, ~um,~ that we got executive buy-in for. So identifying, this is the problem we're seeing when we're bringing in employees.
This is the problem we're seeing on a tooling front. This is the problem we're seeing on, ~um,~ some, things like our, ~uh,~ job leveling and, and frameworks. ~Um, ~and this is what we're seeing, you know, when it comes to, like, performance. And, ~um,~ so really identifying the, each of the core problems, you know, proposing a solution.
~Um, ~and then, ~um, ~at the time, ~um,~ our, you know, CTRO, ~um,~ you know, took this to the [00:10:00] executive staff and got their buy-in. ~Um, ~and one of the things that we ensured was that, ~um,~ our, you know, our executives were all- On board with these changes and also willing to support them. You know, we, we asked for quite a bit of money.
~Uh, ~we didn't get all of the money that we, that we wanted, but we got, a lot more than, you know, than, than we might have expected. ~Um, ~and, and really- Yeah ... pointed also, like, what the risk areas are if we don't solve these. ~Um, ~because, you know, a lot of them, you know, could lead to issues of, like, fairness and leveling or, equity in, you know, in pay.
~Um, ~pay equity was, you know, was, was part of this, you know, as well. Mm. So really, the first st- step was, like, tr- was, like, creating a large, you know, vision of, of how this will drive, like, systems-level change, you know, for our people processes and the impact on employees. ~Um, ~we also had some work- Yeah
streams focused on people and culture, too. ~Um, ~and that one of my peers, owned, ~uh,~ owned that, you know, kind of process of looking at things like allyship and training and learning and development because we can fix the tools, you know, and, and create a, you know, better people [00:11:00] processes for all employees, but we also have to make sure that we're investing in, like, the culture of the organization if you wanna drive, you know, large-scale transformation or change.
Yeah. Th- there's, there's so much background work even before- Yeah ... you bring in a tool, right, that needs to be done. Yeah. Oh, I think it took... I think we worked on this from, you know, I, I, from when I had started, so probably, like, six months, you know, until we were, like, we're, you know, ready to go to the, you know, or five months until we're ready to go to the e-staff.
You know, we'd-- I already started you know, starting- ~Um, ~some of the solutions like, you know, reaching out to vendors, having demos- Yeah ... like doing a lot of background learning so I could see what was possible, yes. But, but yes, I mean, m- months of planning and really wanting to be, you know, buttoned up when we're, you know, we're going to the exec staff to ask for- Yeah
a lot of money and, and then also the investment from our other peers across the people team. ~Um, ~because I'm not the, you know, was not the, you know, the head of total rewards or the head of compensation or, you know, the head of talent acquisition. You know, I'm, in another role, a director role over here, [00:12:00] but I, you know, need you to be bought into these changes as well.
So that socialization, you know, among like the HR leadership team and, and, and peers was really, really important, ~um- ~Yeah ... to have both. Is this buy-in, buy-in from our other, our other peers across the HR, ~um,~ HR function as well. That's, that's huge. ~Um, ~it, it's really great to see you kind of took a bottom-up approach and a top-down approach at the same time- Yeah
and kind of a sideways socialization approach at the same time, and it feels like- Yeah ... if those things weren't going at the same time, it wouldn't have really been successful. Right. Absolutely, 'cause we could get buy-in, you know, from execs, but if, if people didn't prioritize this work, ~um, ~that it's important because of the day-to-day employee life cycle programs that need to run, right?
Or the compensation cycle that's- Mm-hmm ... upcoming. So being really strategic about when we also were looking at doing implementation of these things. So if we're gonna implement, implement a, you know, an AI, you know, driven software tool for pay equity, well, it's like needs to be around our reporting, you know, requirements, but it also can't happen during, you know, the annual compensation planning time.
[00:13:00] So- Yeah ... I really learned a lot about playing outside of my lane, ~um,~ and- ... and also leaning in and learning with other, ~um,~ other teams as well. ~Um, ~so that way I could, you know, help drive this work and hold them accountable and, ~um,~ and really kind of lead even when I didn't have authority, you know, like in- Yeah
in some of their spaces too. That's fascinating, and, ~um,~ some of the things that you're talking about here, from what we're hearing, still carries through today to when you're bringing in AI solutions or agentic solutions. Yeah. And it feels like th- they've just been 10X'd, ~uh,~ in some ways and in some things- Oh
have, have changed. ~Um, ~what have you seen change or what is, what is still holding true and is not different at all, whether it was pre-AI or, or post-AI now? Yeah. It's an interesting question. ~Um, ~I think, what's holding true is, the necessity for, for the judgment of, of, people in, in, you know, in human resources.
Right. Right? Like I think that's the one thing that's holding, absolutely holding true, and we need to keep, you know, at [00:14:00] the, at the top. ~Um, ~I think the other thing, you know, is the importance of like, trust, ~uh,~ and accountability and transparency. ~Um, ~the AI tools we were looking at a couple years ago are very different than the agentic solutions, you know, that- That I've seen today, you know, and, and that I've demoed today and that, ~um,~ you know, my team is looking into, ~um,~ now at 1Password.
~Um, ~but I think it's, you know, one thing that was true even a couple years ago was this fear of is this, you know, AI tool that we're using for talent acquisition gonna suggest a decision that's wrong? And really, we really have to... As we're, using tools or exploring tools or building tools now, you know, with being able to build our own agents, that we're really trying to brief them.
We're really, you know, ensuring that they're not leading us in the wrong direction. ~Um- ~Yeah ... so that's, that's-- I think that's one thing that I've definitely seen that's true today. ~Um- ~Yeah ... I think what's different, ~uh,~ in 2026 is that now that we have, ~uh,~ the ability, we just rolled this out, ~um,~ at 1Password, ~uh,~ yesterday, the ability for everyone to build their [00:15:00] own agents.
~Um, ~we really need now to think about, ~um, ~giving people the time and space to learn and, and to like upskill themselves, and we really need to, ~um,~ we really, really need to model that as leaders. I just shared that with my HR leadership team, ~um,~ about an hour ago. ~Um, ~so certainly something top of mind.
~Um, ~but we also need, ~um,~ to, you know, clear space for our teams to experiment and try, ~um,~ and then help them, you know, envision, you know, what their roles can look like. And I've seen some examples on- Mm ... my team of the folks that have, ~uh,~ dove headfirst, how they've saved themselves time by automating some of their work.
But ins- you know, they're not working themselves out of a job. They're, you know- ... like one of our onboarding program manager has freed up time for him to, spend time on creating con- new content for onboarding, keeping it up to date, you know, building out- Yeah ... creating... you know, thinking about creating new videos and, and new engagement points in a remote company.
So I think that's what we have to keep, that we have to keep the human element in it. ~Um, ~you know, I think that's just something that we really need to be intentional about. And then... [00:16:00] And yeah, that's how people can reimagine- Yeah ... you know, what their roles look like. How much more complex do you think with AI agents coming into the fore, how much more complex has the influencing and the, the top-down research and the, the bottom-up research and the sideways socializing, has that process when you're thinking about...
we can talk about build versus buy or build and buy soon. Yeah. But has that become more complex, or do you think it's become easier to bring in AI-native solutions versus two years ago when you had to do all of that influencing to- Yeah ... to bring in a tool? I think it's way easier to, to bring in AI-native solutions.
Okay. ~Um, ~I think, ~uh- ~it definitely, ~uh,~ it definitely is. ~Um, ~you know, because we know it's here, and we know it's not going anywhere. And- Yeah ... you know, I-- San Francisco, I, you know, I walk my dogs- ... and see a million, you know, AI ads on the bus stop, on the bus, you know, on the highway. ~Um, ~it's here, right? Like, the pendulum I think will swing.
You know, it's swinging hard one way right now, and I think it might swing back a little bit at some [00:17:00] point. But, ~um,~ so we don't have to do as much of the, you know, that influencing to, like, make a decision to get an AI-native solution. What I think is different is we know the qu- Like, we're better at asking the questions and knowing, you know, what questions we need to ask.
And I think you know, my company as well as, many companies have, spun up, ~uh,~ you know, working committees like on AI, ~uh,~ working committees on, like, software rationalization. Like, making sure that we're all looking at things in the same way. ~Um, ~in previous organizations, w-we weren't sh- You know, I was working with privacy and legal, and we weren't sure, like, how our data was being used to train AI models or some of the tools, you know, that, you know, we were going through, like privacy and security, ~uh,~ you know, ~um,~ processes and procurement.
Like, so I think we've gotten a lot better at that, so it's, it's easier to get the buy-in. I think the question right now is, is that build-buy question, and that's where it's... Like, we're not sure, do we wanna spend money on something, or do we wanna try and, you know, build, build on our own? So I think that's where the, the question is, is sitting, at least from my perspective and [00:18:00] as I've talked to a lot of my peers in the space.
You know- Yeah ... we don't... But we also, we also wanna move quickly. You know, we don't want... Like, I can't transform the HR operations role, if we don't have better tools. So, I, you know, think it's, you know, can we move quickly, you know, on changing this- Yeah ... now, so that way we can, you know, we can, we can change the roles and ch- you know, change the work that people are able to do and spend, spend time doing more higher value things.
So we are at a little bit of a- Yeah ... chicken and egg, I think, in many companies. ~Um, uh,~ but, but I think as we see success with building agents and what that looks like, you know, that'll make us more confident that we can bring in agentic solutions from the outside, ~um,~ you know, that will- Exactly
that will, like, you know, transform- Exactly. Yeah. Unless you start to kinda test things internally, then you don't really know the limits of where- Right ... you can take it versus where you have to bring in a solution. And what we're seeing is that people are like should we build or buy?" And naturally, where they land is, it's probably gonna be a build and buy solution, depending on- Yeah
what you're trying to solve. ~Uh, ~[00:19:00] and then the, the factor becomes, "Hey, how quickly can we move?" To your point speed is becoming one of those decision-making factors- Right ... of, of which path we choose. ~Um, ~are you gonna see that played out as well, or are there kind of other thing, other things that, that you see weigh into your decisions?
Yeah, I think you hit it on the, the head with the build and buy, you know, notion. It's, I think, ~um,~ I think that's where, you know, I feel like a lot of companies are landing. That's like what I- Yeah ... see come up a lot of, you know, my work. It's like we can build th- we wanna build things, or at least my vision is I wanna build things that are for like personal productivity.
But I think- Yeah ... we, you know, if we want like widespread adoption of, of tools as like a source of truth, they need to be really, really good. You know, we wanna, be looking at, like say like a, you know, agentic chatbots like for HR or, you know, a solution for onboarding. You know, we really, you know, we really wanna have a strong employee experience so we can drive behavior change of our, you know, of our people managers, or of our individuals.
Yeah. I always joke some of our Slack channels turn into [00:20:00] HR question spaces, so we need to change that behavior, right? So like, ~um,~ if, but if I build them a tool that's not so great, you know- Yes ... then that does, that won't behavior change. So, ~um,~ you know- Exactly ... we wanna make sure. You know, I don't know where, where we'll land, ~um,~ in that- Mm-hmm
in that discussion, but, ~uh,~ but I do think- Yeah ... it's a great... It's really interesting. Yeah. Totally, and you know, we're seeing a lot of companies, including ourselves, and we're really leaning into Claude Cowork, for example, and that's for personal productivity. But when we're thinking about something that's collaborative and reaching our employees where they are- Right
~um, ~and helping us to work together in a proper system that also gives us the data and it's protected, then suddenly it's like, okay, now we need to think a little bit differently. And it feels like every company is, is going to need to embrace the mess, and it is going to be messy right now because there's gonna be a lot of experimentation, and there's gonna be a lot of like, is it this tool?
Is it that tool? Do we build? Do we buy? How are you navigating that mess? Because it's a lot, it's a lot to take in for a team, like a people team who's not only doing their day job and a lot of the human side of things as well, but now they [00:21:00] suddenly have to think about how do we think about bringing a tool in or building stuff ourselves, which is again, gonna require upskilling from their side.
Yeah. I think, ~um, ~we're at early stages, you know, of, of looking at tools and things like that, but I think, ~um,~ we've got really focusing on having cross-functional teams, you know, kind of doing this. Yeah. So like a combination of, you know, our, our HR and, you know, tech partners, you know, on, on tech delivery, then the, folks from like the, people operations team and making sure that we're all communicating in that way and that we're, you know, that we're looking at tools together and, you know, so we're all kind of along for the journey.
I think that's, you know, what's been working for us in, in kind of navigating that. ~Um, ~and we've also had, ~um,~ you know, have some of our leaders, ~um,~ involved, with some AI guidelines and, and things like that. ~Um, ~so that way we're, you know, we're pushing out like, you know, a company, company framework, you know, on, on AI.
~Um, ~so I think that kind of thing, ~um,~ our chief people officer just did a podcast yesterday talking about, talking about that, that I, I- Yeah ... I can't wait to, ~um,~ a little bit later. ~Um, ~but that's, you know, I think those kinds of things that are happening, you know, in tandem, you [00:22:00] know, with- Creating the space for people to, you know, build their own tools and get comfortable with tools- Mm-hmm
I think that's, that's what will kind of drive, ultimately drive the change and the choices that we make. ~Um- ~Love it ... yeah, I think building fluency is just, is so important and, and getting people to try things. ~Um, ~you know, that, that to me shows then that they're capable-- you know, our teams are capable of really using a tool that we bring on externally to like, to its fullest potential.
~Um, ~because I've also- Yeah ... seen from my past experience, like when we buy a tool but we don't enable all of its capabilities or people are afraid to use it, it-- we don't get the full value out of it as well. So, ~um,~ so I think that's important too. Totally. So I, I have, again, so many more questions.
I'm loving this discussion. ~Um, ~one potentially spicy question I have for you, ~uh,~ is you mentioned earlier that, yeah, we wanna free up the HR operation, ~uh,~ manager's time to be able to focus on, ~uh,~ more of the higher value work. Mm-hmm. So it sounds like you're in the camp of actually, and maybe this is 'cause you're in the Bay Area, but it sounds like you're in the camp [00:23:00] of AI is not gonna take our jobs, and that is a bit of a myth, and actually, if anything, it's gonna increase our capacity.
Did I read that right or where do you stand on that? No, I mean, that's definitely where I am, you know, personally, you know, in the camp. I am-- I'm not gonna say that I don't think like AI will, ~uh,~ will like never replace, you know, some jobs. And I think there are companies that that's the vision that they, that they want, right?
Like, ~um,~ but you know, I feel like the place that I work at and like what, how we're talking about it and we're framing it is, is a lot on, ~um,~ o- you know, creating that space for that higher value, you know, work that requires judgment. ~Um, ~and then personally, that's what I, how I wanna use AI.
That's how I want my, you know, my teams to use AI. And like I, I, y- I'm seeing it, you know, with the folks that have been these early adopters, you know, and these com- becoming these power users, you know, and, and agent builders, about how much they've already freed up from the operational workload of like scheduling emails, sending emails, writing emails to like every new hire.
[00:24:00] Right. Things like that. Like so-- And how they're able to change their work. ~Um, ~I do think for some roles, ~um, ~and what I've, you know, in, in my, you know, one-on-ones with, you know, folks on my teams, you know, has been talking about like, what kind of things do you love spending your time on, and how, you know, as we free up operational work, what does that look like? You love compliance. Well, how can your-- you take on more and more work because now you can do this at a higher level? Or you, you know, you're working on, you know, contractors and, you know, bring contractors on. You know- Yeah ... how-- does this role pivot to you're like a contract program manager because you've automated the operational- point of onboarding contractors.
So now you can spend more time on that, that man- that extended like workforce management or- Exactly ... you know, consider operations teams, you know, someday, you know, help, they can actually like, you know, spend more time fielding employee policy questions, ~um- ~Mm ... that need judgment or, you know, do exit interviews or the other things that we can shift the role of the business partner and shift the role of operations, you know, [00:25:00] as we scale, you know, it can grow and, and, and that kind of thing.
So I think, ~uh,~ as we build more agents too and, and, you know, and op- you know, operationalize some of these workflows, it'll create new opportunities to like, to build, you know, to be more of a builder of, you know, of HR agents or HR process. So I think it's just we just have to be open-minded about how our world changes, that it's not gonna- Mm-hmm
you know, a lot of our, our work, especially in people ops, is gonna, is gonna shift. ~Um, ~but that doesn't mean like it, it goes away. So, you know, I would- Totally ... would never wanna replace, you know, a person with a, you know, with a, with a, a robot, you know, fully, ~um,~ because there's so much- Exactly ... judgment that's, and nuance required, you know, in anything that's related to people.
Exactly. And, and it's interesting, some of the, the examples you gave there is I bet none of the folks that sign- signed up for the role signed up to do the repetitive stuff- Right ... that can be automated. They wanna focus on the- Right ... higher level strategic stuff, and that's what's on their job description.
Yeah. So you're being [00:26:00] more outcomes focused, and it's like, let's get rid of the stuff that's- Yeah ... repetitive, and let's let you focus on delivering those outcomes at a much higher speed. Yes, and like let's focus on the im- like what kind of impact you could have in your role in, in driving the business, you know?
Like, ~um- ~Yeah ... you know, I think there's a huge opportunity, you know, for, you know, I, I don't think, ~uh,~ like a, a people operations type role needs to, you know, become like a HR business partner type role. But, but how can we like, you know, be able to automate some of the things that we can be like much more closely aligned and, and be able to, you know, to both drive value, you know, for our organization.
Yeah. Love it. Yeah. So let's bring us back to, ~uh,~ the beginning of the conversation where you mentioned- Yeah ... some of the dysfunctional hiring processes. ~Um, ~now that we are in the age of agentic AI, how would you go about it differently today if you were to solve some of those, those challenges and if you were to influence internally?
Or would it be different at all? I think, ~um, ~I think now, because we're like in this age of AI, I think we [00:27:00] can do some things better when it comes to like auditing our systems, you know- Mm ... people systems. You know- Like not just like a one time, like snapshot of when something, like something's broken and we need to fix.
I think, ~um,~ because we can automate, or, you know, automate process a lot easier now and like have better access to data and data analysis, like, you know, we can auto- Like what I'm seeing like our teams do, for analyzing data, you know, whether it's our business partners or our TA leaders, like, they're able to, you know, with AI, to have so much more rich, data in an easy way, you know, that, that's very different than, you know, a number of years ago and, and how much time it took people analytics to, to kind of do some of that stuff for us.
So I think- Yeah ... the way I view it differently now is that like, because we have we can do some of this stuff faster on a more regular basis, we can like see when processes are failing, you know, much sooner. ~Um, ~so that, and I just think- Yeah ... that's something that would, that would really, you know, how, change how I do this, you know, do that kind of transformation work, ~um,~ today.
~Um, ~you know- [00:28:00] I love that. Yeah, I, ~um, sorry, I might wanna just say that a little bit differently, um- Sure ... if that's okay. Um- Yeah. Yeah, I just, I had a, I had, 'cause I actually had written a note on this and I, um- Yeah ... uh... Yeah, okay. Uh, yeah, I guess maybe I'll just start over again. Uh, but yeah- Sure ...~ I think the biggest thing differently is, you know, is focusing on on the data piece and, you know, building that regular cadence of, of understanding how our systems are working.
AI makes it so much easier for us to do data analysis on a regular basis, you know, without, you know, the need of, deep, analytics expertise. ~Um, ~we have to always- Yeah ... that's why we have people analytics partners. ~Um, ~but, ~uh,~ but we're able to, you know, to understand where our systems are falling apart or where a process isn't working, you know, whether it be hiring, whether it be performance.
So I think that would just change how we do this because, ~um,~ we're able to do a lot more, you know, ourselves and be able to make some of these tweaks. You know, it doesn't require, always, ~uh, ~looking at things just, you know, a couple times a year because of the- Yeah ... complexity of being able to, you know, to get information and get data.
~Um, ~I think the other thing I might, do differently, ~um,~ you know, would be look, more at, you know, fr- framing this as like a, ~um, ~infrastructure and, ~um- ~it's an infrastructure problem, you [00:29:00] know, that we have and, like- Right ... and making sure that, like, leaders and executives understand, like, how important the systems that our people, function is, like, built on, just how important they are.
And I both mean systems from a tooling perspective, but also, the frameworks and things that we follow. Like, you know, if, if we don't build, like, you know, if we don't, ~uh,~ have a really strong job family architecture, you know, or we don't have a really strong, perf- you know, performance foundation, we didn't have s- you know, one of the things I had worked on was, like, talent development plans and planning.
Like- Right ... if we don't have those processes ironed out, they just, they can create so much inequity, ~um,~ over time. You know, they, they lead to attrition, they lead to us, you know, not being able to do, like, talent assessment interview as, as, as effectively as we could. ~Um, ~I just think that's, they slow down organizations.
So, you know, I think o- one of the things I, you know, I would love-- would do again, you know, in, in this process is, is frame this less as, like, something that's, ~uh,~ that's, like, upsetting to employees or, or is driving employee engagement down, but also... but something that's, like, just crit- that's critical to the business and being able to [00:30:00] show- Right
you know, that. And I think I've gotten a lot better at that. You know, it's like how do we show the business impact of people process and, ~um,~ so that's certainly something I would- Yeah ... I would on that framing. And I've learned a lot- ~Excuse me~ ... you know, with that shifting kind of roles and, ~um,~ and, and that growth.
Yeah. Yeah. There, there's so much there. Thank you, Wes. ~Uh, ~the need to be closer to business impact now more than ever. ~Uh, ~I love that- Absolutely ... you, you kind of inferred that, ~uh,~ that you're democratizing access to data, and therefore, we go back to your point around speed is one of the biggest things that we now need to factor in.
It's like, hey, there's no need to wait anymore, and we can be more proactive about being able to act on things that are about to break or just broken, as opposed to having to wait to find out more detail about those- Right ... kind of things until it's too late. So that's awesome. ~Um, ~I'm sure there are some folks that are listening in who are thinking, "This is all amazing.
It sounds like Wes has got a lot of support, ~um,~ but where do I start?" ~Uh,~ as a final question, what advice would you give to, to someone who's kind of jumping into some of these processes or [00:31:00] evaluating what to do next in this age of AI? ~Uh, yeah. Yeah. Um, please give me a moment to think on that. Um, uh... I guess, where should people, uh, where should people start?~
~Yeah, I guess where people should start. Uh, that's a really good question. So, like, where people should start if you're on this AI journey and, you know, process kind of improvement journey. ~I would say, the first thing you should do, you know, is, like, is think about your own workflow. Like, think about how you spend your time.
~Um, ~I think that's- and also like reflect when you think about like, what are you really good at and what are you struggle with? So like, you know, in my own like AI journey, ~um,~ in like thinking about work and thinking about process, like I focused on the things that I'm not as strong at and trying to figure out how I can leverage AI to help me with those things.
Like, I often agree to doing a lot of things at work. You know, yes, yes, yes, and I've learned the power of no over the years. But, you know, I'm... When I'm excited about something and, you know, it's like I wanna take on more and, you know, wanna have more influence, so yes, of course, I wanna do more. But the risk is I'm not like...
I've been in a project manager or program manager, you know, type role, but, you know, it's not always my like my core, core strength. Or managing all the asks and commitments I've had. So I've, you know, focused initially on using AI [00:32:00] to help me build like an agent to help keep on top of my day, you know, and like what I've committed to and holding me accountable.
So like building my own like mini chief of staff, if you will. ~Um, ~so I think- ... I, I, I think, I think about the things that you, you know, where you need help with, ~um,~ and try to use AI, you know, to solve the problem, you know, those problems. Or if there's gaps in your experience, what are the things that you need to know more about, you know, or that you're less familiar with?
You know, I work at a global company. I don't know every, you know, Canadian- ... you know, ~uh,~ historically based in Toronto. ~Um, ~and, I don't know everything about every province, right? So like using, AI to help me, you know, w- you know, learn when I have a gap, things like that. I think that's what helps start you on your journey, and that's what's, allowed me to see what's possible.
~Um- ~Mm-hmm ... and that's changed my mindset when I'm looking at our people systems and looking at, ~um,~ you know, our larger processes around, you know, how AI can, can actually change them fully. So yeah, maybe that's my little, ~uh,~ tidbit. That's very cool. I think people are [00:33:00] gonna start flooding your inbox, ~uh,~ to learn more about this chief of staff that you're building out for yourself.
Where, where can people find you, Wes? ~Um, ~you can find me on LinkedIn, ~um,~ Weston Fillman. Great. Pretty easy to find. Only person with my name that I know of. ~Um, ~but yeah, ~uh,~ my, my contact information- Great ... information's on there. Yeah. Amazing. Wes, thank you so much for sharing your experience with us and your thought process.
It's been amazing to hear about, ~uh,~ your journey so far. And, ~uh,~ to everyone listening, ~uh,~ we'll catch you on the next one. Cool. Thanks for having me. This was a great conversation.