In this episode of The Navvai Shift, we sit down with Kevin Brown, PR and Communications Manager at Scottish Friendly, to unpack how one of the UK’s most trusted mutuals is navigating economic pressure, leading with purpose, and pushing for long-overdue reforms in savings and financial literacy.
From record-breaking ISA sales to bold campaigns for Junior ISA reform, Kevin shares how Scottish Friendly is adapting to inflation, investing in technology like AI, and building financial resilience across the UK.
You’ll hear: ✅ Why mutuality gives Scottish Friendly a unique edge in uncertain times ✅ How customer behaviour has shifted since the pandemic ✅ The truth about household savings and rising living costs ✅ Why Scottish Friendly is pushing for Junior ISA reform in Parliament ✅ How AI is helping them stay ahead of the curve without losing the human touch
If you care about financial wellbeing, long-term saving, or the future of family investing — this one is for you.
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Hello people. Welcome back to another
episode of the Nabi Shift. I'm joined
with my co-host Darnell and we have a
very special guest. His name is Kevin
Brown. He is the PR and communications
manager over at Scottish Friendly. So
Kevin, how are you?
>> Thanks for having me.
>> It's absolute pleasure. And for Kevin,
for those that are not too familiar with
who you are, could you give us a brief
introduction to yourself?
Yeah, no problem at all. So, I've been
in the industry financial services um my
whole career um so I started out um at a
company called at the time Scottish
Equitable which was um subsequently
bought over by um a Dutch company called
Aegon. Um they still firmly remain
within the pension and investment space
in the UK. Um I was there for about 9 10
years before moving over to Lloyd's
Banking Group and primarily working
across the Scottish Widows pension and
investments brand there leading their um
external communications and I'm at
Scottish Friendly um a lovely mutual
organization.
>> Amazing. Well, thank you for telling us
about your role at um Scottish Friendly.
I wanted to ask how does your work
connect with the mission to help
families build you know financial
resilience?
>> Um yeah, very much so. I mean um we
don't have shareholders through our
mutual status um everything we do is for
our members. So um our customers are
what we call our members. So once they
um start investing in a Scottish
friendly product they are a member of
ours. Um just go back to the point that
we don't have shareholders instead of
shareholders and we have what we call a
delegate system. So we have up to 30
delegates um who represent the UK. Um,
so we have delegates across all parts of
the UK. If you was to look at our
customer, uh, where our customers are
from. Yes, we're a Scottish
organization. We're based in Glasgow.
Our head office is Glasgow. We've only
got one office. Um, but if you look to
look at the makeup of the customers
within Scottish friendly, would say
about 50% are in Scotland. The other 50%
would be um, other parts of the UK. And
that's primarily due to the makeup of
the UK economy. Um so in terms of UK
household, yeah it's it's fundamental.
It's it's absolutely key. Um we'll
probably talk on it in a bit more
detail, but there are as we know um a
lot of economic pressures out there um
geopolitical pressures. So a lot of
politics um politics are not solely in
the UK just to point we we we only sell
in the UK. Um but we are affected by
events that happen across um other parts
of the world. So the war in Ukraine
affects us, affects everybody, affects
every sector, not just financial
services of course. Um and then
obviously what we've got um ongoing
discussions um in America um around um
around tariffs although I would caveat
that to say that um the UK is not as
affected as um other parts of the world
but you know there is a a degree of
that. Um but it's quite you know we're
we've been through very we've been
through many economic cycles at Scottish
friendly. We've always overcome them.
We've got a strategy that um works um a
strategy that was um recently reviewed
um and went to both executive and right
up to the board level for uh for review
and subsequently approval that it still
works despite all the um issues and
challenges that we still face in terms
of UK households across the UK.
>> I see. So Kevin, you briefly touched on
uh household savings. So I did want to
ask um what has been some of the biggest
changes you've actually seen in
household saving behavior over the last
few years?
>> Few years. Okay, that's good. Great. Um
cuz I was going to touch on um we
obviously went into um and we're trying
to move away from this but lockdown did
have um the pandemic did have an effect
on on on all organizations both with
customers
um being nervous about being furoughed
or losing their jobs altogether. Um our
colleagues um struggled um because of
the increased demand on the call center
um because there was so much uncertainty
out there. I mean you just had to look
at the volatility in the stock market.
Um so a lot of nervousness. Um we did
see though that um once things started
to settle and offices started um to open
there was there was what we called a
spending splurge. Um so once the high
street we had a period where we couldn't
shop, we couldn't go abroad on holidays.
Obviously, you know, it's hard to
believe that um there was one period
where we were only allowed out of the
house for 1 hour a day. Um I've got a
12-year-old and a 13-year-old and they
they think I'm just making this up when
I when I reflect back on this actually
was a thing. They were too young to
remember it at the time. Um although
they did live through it, but too young
to know what was going on. Um and I
remember the the hourly walks down to
the beach um every day just to get out
and about. Um so yes it affected us it
affected everybody. Um we all of a
sudden we were um we shut the office um
unless you were a key worker. So by key
worker customer services um uh the
department and the contact center are
classed as key workers because we still
had a business to run. Um but it was
difficult. It was really difficult. And
one of the things that our chief
executive at the time, Jim Gabriath, one
of the things that he mentioned um I
remember this um as if it was yesterday
on an old colleague call was listen if
you this was to all of our colleagues.
If you're struggling, reach out to your
line manager and um you know, if you
have to take a half day, you have to
take a few hours, that is absolutely
fine. We don't know how difficult this
is going to be. We don't know how long
it's going to it's going to be until
things get back to normality. I mean,
things are still normal. We're still um
seeing the kind of effects on on how
that all works. But yeah, it was
difficult. But once things started open,
there was a lot of um unspent money. So
we saw a spending splurge. We saw a
spending splurge that we called out. Um
that's that was the terminology we used
um at Scottish Friendly when we were
speaking um to the media certainly um
that um when the high streets opened,
people were allowed to start going on
holidays again. Um people started
investing more as well. So you talk
about savings, we yes yes savings has
its place and we we're an investment
company um saying that we do have a cash
fund within our adult um um range of
products. So we saw sales actually
record we saw record-breaking sales um
which which was great. People were
thinking about the long term thinking
about their families um and that was
really nice to see. Um but then we went
into the rise in cost of living which
we're still seeing uh still seeing just
now. So it's like just one thing after
another um which has just been really
really difficult. We're still there but
there are signs of um are there signs of
improvement? Yes, there are. Um so
yesterday we had um inflation which um
ticked up by um almost a full percent.
So, we're currently back up to 3.5%.
Um, which is um a percentage and a half
above the Bank of England's um target of
2%. Um, but we can see light at the end
of the tunnel. Um, we know that um in
the summer months, for instance, um you
know, there's been a lot of talk about
energy caps being increased by offjem.
Um summer months, you're going to use
less heating. Um we do believe interest
rates obviously has a inflation has an
knock on effect on interest rates. Um
interest rates um did drop by um 25 bits
um in the recent um when the monetary
policy committee met last um because of
such a a big increase in inflation
yesterday and an increase that many of
the UK analysts and economists didn't
expect it to be quite as big. Um that's
obviously going to have a knock on
effect when the monetary policy
committee meet again next month in terms
of what is that vote out of the nine
members going to where's it going to go.
Likelihood is the interest rates will
remain the same next month. Um
certainly won't uh drop. I would I would
predict that they're not going to going
to drop and that's what what's kind of
um out there in the market as well.
Probably going to stay the same. Um, in
terms of moving, if we looked to the
year end, we as Scottish friendly will
probably we we're expecting a couple of
rate drops um between now and the end of
the year. Uh, in terms of in terms of
interest rates, terms of inflation, um,
we think the the increase will be
short-lived.
Um, we think it'll peak at around about
3.6 3.7% before it starts coming down
closer to the Bank of England's target
of 2%.
>> Nice. I wanted to touch on something
that you said a few moments ago. It was
literally it was in relations to um you
mentioned the spending splurge during
that period of time where you had an
increase where people saw that they
wanted to start investing more. Is that
where you did that just happen naturally
or did you you know put money aside for
marketing um to attract those people?
>> Yeah, it's a great question. I mean it's
it's something that doesn't just happen
now um with our marketing activity. um
our marketing activity now is very very
tailored. We've got really good um
strategy behind what we're doing within
marketing um to keep sales ticking up.
When we were going through the kind of
spending splurge, it was more natural.
We didn't have an uptick in terms of the
amount of um spend we had in marketing.
It was it was stabilized. Um it was just
yes we just saw saw um a demand of
people looking longterm um and looking
longterm in terms of um investing not
just from them for themselves um but
also for um their children through
children's savings accounts. We've we've
got a junior offering as well as an
adult um offering.
>> Okay. Nice nice. So I presume it was
because of given the circumstance of you
know the uncertainty it was more or less
that people wanted to search for your
type of company and it would be like you
would rank fairly high on the SEO. So
that's when they
>> yeah we was hope we would hope we were
one of the ones up there. It does help
as well that we won one of the biggest
um children savings um awards in the UK
and we've won it for six years running
now. So that's in best um junior riser
provider and that's through quite a
prestigious um awards publication
through money facts um so six years in a
drop things like that help and obviously
that's front and center of of our
website and and things like that as
well.
>> Yeah Kevin that's absolutely solid. So
Scottish friendly is most certainly you
know grown significantly it's probably
fair to say. What do you think sets you
apart from other savings providers?
>> Um the mutuality aspect sets us apart
very much and we're proud as a business.
um our colleagues are proud of our
mutual status. Um so profits that we
make are invested back to to our
members. So um those members who are um
invested in our main what we'd call our
main with profits fund um we invested
4.5 million back to them um in 2024 and
23 million um was distributed to
eligible members in total last year.
That that's significant and that equates
to the 4.5 million equates to um around
8% of our profits were put back to our
members um through what we call it's an
initiative that we call profit share.
>> Profit share.
>> Sharing our profits back to our members.
Yeah.
>> Yeah. Amazing. Amazing. So it's like
you're a members first type of type of
company. You look after the people that
uh come and use your services basically.
>> Yeah. Yeah, I mean I would say uh we are
especially and I I love you using this
um example um especially it began going
through lockdown and and I would say
colleague one of the things I really
loved speaking with our chair and our
chief executive um was that um
colleagues were number one colleague
well-being was was up there as number
one if we looked after our colleagues
and done the right things for them in a
very difficult period then they were
best placed or better place to look
after our members. Um and if those if
those two colleagues and customers um
worked in harmony then third priority
was sales sales would take part of
themselves. We've got enough capital
that we didn't have to if we didn't sell
another product we would still be around
to pay um pay claims um to to our
customers for a number of years. So it
was a really nice story and it was
something that really resonated strongly
as a mutual organization when I was
speaking externally to the press but
obviously um internally to colleagues as
well. We've done a lot for colleagues
which was the right thing to do um to
get them through that difficult period
until we started um gradually opening
opening the office but we're very
careful in terms of doing so. We didn't
you know day one have 200 colleagues
back in the office. Um you know we were
still doing all the self-distancing. are
still doing all the right right things
to to to help colleagues and to avoid
colleagues. Obviously catching something
that for many people could be quite
quite severe.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kevin. So Kevin, you
mentioned high inflation uh interest
rate uncertainty, you know, flat wages.
What impacts are you what impact are you
seeing on people's ability to save right
now?
>> Uh yeah. So um just last uh month um we
announced um so we had our AGM our
annual general meeting and we despite
such another difficult and challenging
year um with the economy and everything
else happening in the world um it was
our second highest um sales in our
history and that was largely largely
driven by our what we call own branded
products or Scottish friendly branded
products and that's um mentioned earlier
that's our jiza range of um products,
the investment savings accounts um and
we we it was 50 million pounds that we
made. If you looked at our own brand um
products um they were 30% up year on
year. So a big uplift um protection
products which is another part of our
strategy um was a little bit less um but
um it shows that the two part those two
parts of our um strategy which I said
earlier on went through a review through
the exec through the board and it was
agreed that it was still the right
thing. It means that if one area is
doing particularly well and another area
is maybe doing or having more challenges
then they kind of even themselves out
and it just shows that that strategy
continues to work and then we've got a
third part of the strategy which has
been quite exciting which is mergers and
acquisitions and we can come to that if
you want more information about that. So
there's three parts we call it a
three-pronged uh growth strategy that
Scottish friendly has to serve our
members.
>> Kevin I did want to ask a question
because I'm quite intrigued. So
obviously I think like what you said is
like your main unique center point is
that you know you give back to your
members. So would you say customers
expectation has like evolved from that?
Like are they kind of more demanding now
or do they are they just happy with the
service that you're providing because
you know with customers I feel like
they're always always demanding more and
more you know.
>> Yeah absolutely. Um yeah, so we we we we
have some uh discriminant customers, but
I've came from large corporates where um
there's bigger issues out there. Um we
don't we don't see that. Um I mean I can
count on um one hand how many um
customers have went to the media with an
issue with Scottish friendly in the six
and a half years that I've worked here.
>> Um so yeah, I mean um yes, the major I
think you we've got about 800 900,000
members. We've got 1.3 million policies.
So that means that there's some members
that have multiple products. So they
don't just have the one products, they
maybe open others. So those customers
are telling us they're happy with the
service and if they're opening more than
one product with us.
>> Amazing. That's a good take. Good
question, Darnell.
>> Very good question.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to sort of like
delve into just a tad bit of uh
politics. Um but um just from the
taxation to economic policy, how do you
see West Minister West Minister shaping
or you know limiting people's ability to
save or invest?
>> One of the things I'd want to call out
um about um the current government um so
when Labor came into power um they said
that they wanted to um grow the mutual
sector. So that's great. Um the
Conservatives um never went that far,
but the Labor government have said that.
Um there's obviously tax implications
affect um UK households disposable
income. Um there has been rumors that
for higher net worths they might um have
even higher taxes and we'll see what
happens. There's a couple of speeches
coming up. Um there's one at Mansion
House in July and then there's obviously
the chancellor's um autumn budget in
October. So it'll be interesting to see.
There's obviously obviously the the
April statement as well when the
chancellor stood up and you know
discussed the difficulties that that we
still face in the UK. Um we've obviously
also um got things like um the national
insurance hikes for employers as well.
Um so that's difficult for a number of
reasons and that might um you talked
about wages earlier on. Wages are kind
of stabilizing. We've been through a
period of wages increasing and
increasing quite significantly. That has
a knock on effect on inflation
inflationary pressures as well. Wages
seem to be stabilizing a bit. But um
yeah, with increased um national
insurance rates for employers, that's
that's a difficult period in terms of um
giving employes the um those kind of
wage increases that that a lot of
employees, a lot of companies have um
been used to. um and also retention,
retaining um good um good employees
within the organizations as well. That's
a that's a real key for us is is c not
just um colleague retention but also
customer retention.
>> So Kevin, in a in an ideal world, what
would the changes you would like to see
from policy makers to support um
obviously the workplace and uh as well
as some families to close like the UK
savings gap? Um the what I've mentioned
so looking at my crystal ball um there's
um it's there's just so many challenges
just now it's a difficult one to predict
but um the government are saying the
right things um uh in terms of um I just
touched on it they want the the mutual
sector to grow. We went through a period
um I mean I think it started in the
1980s so a long long time ago um where
um mutual organizations consolidated so
there was a lot less there's not many of
us left but the fact that government are
saying they want to uh they can see the
benefits of mutual organizations and
they do want the sector to grow you know
that's music to our ears we are proud um
to be a mutual organization so um we'll
have to wait and see as I said there's a
couple of big meetings coming up. The
budget statement um from the chancellor
in October is a biggie. So we we'll wait
and see what what they do. They have
talked about ISAP reform.
We are very interested to see um what
that will mean. Um so there has been
talk about potentially reducing the cash
um annual allowance for um from 20K to
potentially 4K. I mean that that's a
significant drop and what the chancellor
means there he wants um there to be more
investment focus on the UK um and that
that that's a good thing as well and
then when we've got tariffs coming from
the US and all that sort of stuff um
concentrating on the UK is is a great
thing. So there's yeah we we'll wait and
see what happens but um yeah it's a
difficult one to to predict exactly what
um what will be said in the in the
autumn budget.
>> Perfect. Perfect. Kevin, uh, Scottish
friendly. It blends its own brand,
product growth, uh, partnerships and
acquisitions. So, could you walk us
through how each piece supports your
mission?
>> Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um, so we start
with own brands. So, I've touched on
this. So, our, um, bread and butter, I
suppose, and what we're really focused
on is driving our, um, Scottish friendly
and junior ASA sales. So ISO is for
adults over 18s and um is for children
up to the age of um up to the age of 18
and um yearon year. So if you looked at
2024 sales um end of year sales, we've
just recently announced um a 30%
increase in our own brand products. We
also have an over 50s um Scottish
friendly product as well. um something
that we might um look to evolve um um in
the future, but very much the the focus
is on the the adult and the junior is um
and that means that our marketing um
campaign activity focuses on on those
two products. Um
so much so that we have a really
targeted marketing um plan in place. Um,
we focus on certain parts of we focus on
the whole of the UK, but we really hone
into certain regional um, areas. Um, so
we focus on Scotland as you would
imagine um, being Scottishbased. We also
focus on the northwest um, of the UK and
we've got a kind of um, a moon curve
shape which looks at um, honing in on on
some parts of the southeast and into
London as well. Um and that's quite a
new approach in terms of having a a more
tailored focused um marketing
plan in place. Um and it's definitely
driving um driving increased efforts in
those areas as well as other parts of
the UK. So um a good example of that I
suppose is um we have something called
um the Scottish friendly investor index.
That's something that I launched about
four or five years ago which looks at
our own customer data. So we do research
where we use a yuggov or a or a three
gem, you know, to get a two and a half
thousand or a 5,000 UK representation
across the UK.
>> But we've got our investor index as
well. Um and that's powerful because
it's looking at a lot more the the
volume of customers. there's a lot more
that we're looking at and that's telling
us that the best um so we launch it on a
quarterly basis and it's telling us that
the northwest and Scotland are the
highest growing parts of the country for
us when it comes to uh new sales and the
the amount that people are able to to
invest. So it's great to be this size of
an organization that we can really see
that the marketing act activity is is
really working in those areas and so
that's great. Um so that's probably own
own brand products. Um we do have a
really strong focus on children's
savings. Um children's savings is really
important to us and we think it's
something and we can get to this later
on. It's something that we really
strongly believe we could be doing more
to help the future generations um to
improve and increase financial
resilience. Um then we've got you
touched on um the partnership and
product side of things. So the product
side of things is developing new
products. Um so we're um we we've
enhanced um some of the products that we
have. We've got um what we would call or
what we do call a tiered pricing
structure in place as well which um is
basically at the highest level. The more
you invest the less your annual
management charges. So if you're um
investing up to 5,000 at 1.5% between 5%
uh sorry 5,000 and uh and 20,000 that
will reduce to uh 1% AMC and then
anything over to uh 20,000 would um
would be uh 0.5% and other product
developments as well and we're looking
at other areas which I can't really um
divulge just now. Um but some exciting
times coming up in terms of product
development, the the partnership side of
things and that's where we um uh
manufacture and administer um protection
products. So you know life insurance,
critical illness and income protection.
If you look at the take up of these
products um across the UK is very very
low and there's not not enough um people
you know looking really out. There was a
surge when we went through pandemic but
it was kind of shortlived. So a lot of
people were obviously concerned about
their own health. Um so there was an
increase in and that's that's when that
kind of partnership side of the business
really came to a four um and done really
really well. So the products that we
manufacture and um administer on behalf
of pretty large um pretty large
companies. So we white label these
products through the likes of Guardian
Financial Services um and Neielson's.
We've got funeral um planning partners
as well. Um so that's the uh that's that
part of the business um in terms of
products and partnerships.
>> Um and then the third that you mentioned
mergers and acquisitions. So we um have
recently launched um or or merged with a
company called Fidelity International
big brands name um where we bought a big
book of annuities business from them. Um
it's 2.1 billion pounds. So that was
only announced a couple of um a couple
of months back maybe not even as far as
that just before our AGM in in April. So
the end of March significant um
acquisition for us um the second highest
in our history. The previous highest was
in 20 back in 2019. Um when we bought a
book of business from a pensions book of
business from another big brand Canada
life. Um and that basically doubled us
in size. The Cander Life business in
2019 doubled us in size in relation to
assets under management overnight. So
that was significant.
The reason I'm use the word significant
as well. Yes, in terms of the size of
the acquisitions, but obviously the
other significant say um was that that
was the time obviously where we were
going into pandemic. So very difficult
period for for in business because we
had a new acquisition, a big book of
business. Um lots of demand on the call
center,
you know, from candid life customers. Um
you know, who are you? What how are you
going to benefit me? Um what does this
mean for me and my my pension policy? Um
and then obviously another uh side of
things with um going into the pandemic
that obviously had another snowball
effect. So it's a pretty difficult
period, but we got through it. Um and um
and then obviously we decided we had to
properly embed that business big
business into the business. So embedding
it um took time and that's why we have
uh haven't um had another acquisition
until um as I say the fidelity
international which again was a similar
size. So I think life is 2.2 2 billion
the Delta International 2.1 billion um a
more soph sophisticated book of business
so more medium um middle to kind of
higher income um customers um and we're
just going that's going through
regulatory approval as you would imagine
an acquisition that side it's called a
part seven transfer
>> um and we're hoping that that will um
that business will fully transfer over
to Scottish friendly um by next
September next summer into September
next here. Um so it's a it's a it's a
long approach. We have to um obviously
inform um inform customers. Fidelity
will inform the customers first. We have
announced it into the media but as I say
it's subject to regulatory approval. Um
um but that will be next in terms of
mergers of acquisitions going forward.
We're always having um conversations
with other organizations. There's always
conversations happening. Um I can't
again I can't divulge who those
conversations are with. Um whether they
will come to fruition or not. Who knows?
And what we would say is we we wouldn't
um acquire a book of business just for
the sake of acquiring a book of
business. It would have to be the right
fit for us. And there was a big tender
process obviously in place. A lot of due
diligence done with the most recent
acquisition to make sure that it was it
was right for not just for Scottish
friendly but also for Fidelity
International. Um, so that that's the
threepart threep prrong growth strategy
for us. The one I mentioned earlier that
has been reviewed through exec and the
board and deemed definitely still the
right thing for us. I think it's quite
unique actually having a a strategy
that's been in place for such a a long
period of time as well and it's quite
refreshing that um that is still deemed
the the right one for for us as a
business um and by that I mean for us um
in terms of our members that we serve.
>> Nice. Nice. I wanted to touch on two
things. I think you mentioned about the
investor index. Um
>> so that's it seems like you're doing a
lot of uh not reporting but you are
looking into a lot of data. Are you guys
utilizing of course Nai
well to artificial intelligence so it's
only right that I ask this question but
are you utilizing artificial
intelligence the workflows that you're
working with at the moment front office
back office?
Uh yeah. Yeah. I mean I think I think we
are we're kind of rolling out um
variations of AI across the business.
We're kind of we're a test and learn
organization. So we're always, you know,
we're not not scared to to try new
things. Um you know, if we get it right,
great. If we get it wrong, we'll revisit
and um and reook. But yeah, we we we're
I would say we're doing more than just
dipping our toes in the water with AI.
Um last year we announced um a
partnership with um uh Fintech Scotland.
So, Financial Technology Scotland and
our commercial director is um the kind
of the Scottish friendly sponsor of
that. Um and yes, we're working closely
with Fentech Scotland and of course
other providers as well. So, it's it's
something we are looking at and we'll
probably definitely look to utilize more
than we currently are. Um but we're not,
you know, it's it's one of those things
that we're just taking our time and um
yeah, there'll be more to come um from
that as well going forward.
And Kevin, I just wanted to ask um so
regarding the uh M&A front, obviously
you've just spoken about, you know, all
the business that's on your books now,
but um what kind of businesses do you
actually look to bring into the fold and
how do you ensure they align with your
values?
>> Um yeah, so that's that's part of the
whole kind of tender process. Um so we
have a number of conversations going on
at any one time. Um and that will be you
know from the way that the um our chief
executive Steven McGee um uh kind of
describes it is you kind of start from
chairtochair conversations as in the
chairman or the chairwoman um and then
once those conversations happen you kind
of go down not down a level but then
you'll have the chief executive to chief
executive conversations then you bring
in your finance director and then this
is just something that I kind of um
started to find out more more about um
very recently actually and Then at the
point where you're having really
productive conversations
um that's when you'll get you'll bring
in your your analysts um to um and your
actuaries sorry to do the kind of
pricing of the book of business and to
make sure that works. So it's a lengthy
process but it has to be a lengthy
process to make sure that as I said
earlier it's it's going to be the right
fit not just for Scottish friendly but
the organization that we'd um we'd be
looking to potentially to potentially
build. We're not um we're not just
acquiring books of businesses
willy-nilly. There's a a very robust
comprehensive um structure in place.
>> I see. And I also wanted to touch on
junior ISIS as well. So we've seen we've
had a little had a little deep dive on
your website and we've seen that you you
know you got stressed the need for like
junior ISO reform. So why would you say
it's like the right time to push for
this change?
>> Yeah. Um, so it's great that you've
you've seen that on the website. It's um
it's really front and center of um my
activity with my PR and communications
hat on within within the team on behalf
of Scottish Rendo of course. Um we don't
want to leave the kids behind basically
um at the the highest level and we um we
financial resilience is it's it's key.
Our future generation is key. This is
something we we had conversations about
um gosh back in everything seems to be
2019. We had a conver we had
conversations um at the House of Lords
um back in 2019. Um we actually teamed
up with a lovely chap called um uh Lords
John Lee of Trafford based in London. So
it's we visited him in London a couple
of times. Um and I remember the set
again this was it feels like it was
yesterday. One of the conversations we
had the second time kind of looked into
he was by the way the first eyes a
millionaire in the UK but his approach
so the first conversation we had was you
know how did you what was your approach
to saving and investing his approach and
he's he's written a couple of books on
this as well was um a little and often
approach can soon add up. He obviously
knew what he was doing to become a
millionaire. He was actively managing
his portfolios. He got things right he
also got things wrong but he learned a
lot around it. But it was the fact that
he very much was aligned to what we
believe is the right way a little and
often approach can soon add up. We
talked about something that we dubbed
the stepping stone approach as well. So
every year can you look you know in line
with maybe salary increases or uh yes so
salary increase increases for instance
could you afford to maybe increase your
monthly contributions by 5% or 10%. or
you know and um the second time we met
Lords John Lee um we actually started
getting into the conversation around um
what does the future hold with
Juniorizers. So we we had a project
sorry a product before Junioras which
was called child trust funds which you
probably remember um they were a great
product because they had an incentive
for mom and dad to open it. So every
child in the UK got £250 through their
child trust fund and Scottish friendly
were one of the companies that the
government um mandated to offer that
product along with other providers as
well. Quite a big mandates that Scottish
friendly had um and vulnerable um
children they received 500 uh500. So an
example would be a child who was in a
care home for instance. Um great
incentive for mom and dad not just to
receive that 250 but or 500. That's an
incentive itself to keep going. Um those
products were then replaced by um
juniorizers um which is what we've been
talking about previously.
>> There was no government incentive there.
So bit more of a difficult sell um but
we are seeing demand. Um we're seeing
really really strong demand both by mom
and dad um to to do that and we're
seeing an increase in our children's
savings. In terms of going back to your
point about JISA reform um yes we've
been talking about this uh with Lord Lee
he got so interested and actually when
his eyes really opened was when we said
that it has to current the rules
currently state that it has to be the
parent or the legal guardian that has to
open um the the junior eyes on behalf of
the child. Um but we know there's demand
from um other family members for
instance grandparents to do so. The
reason we started getting really vocal
on this was when we were in lockdown
when we knew that a lot of people were
really worried about um being furled or
their their future earnings and but we
knew that a lot of grandparents were
retired. Um we knew and if you're
retired you kind of know what your
weekly or monthly disposable income is
going to be. And when we raised this to
John Lee, he was gobsmacked um that that
the rules were so stringent around that.
So he tabled two questions to the House
of Lords. Um same question which was
would you consider um relaxing the rules
to allow other family members to get
involved. Those um that plea I suppose
from Lord Lee was uh was denied um on on
those two occasions. But it didn't stop
us. um we want to advocate for change
and we're really really ramping things
up now um to the point where where we're
um engaging with um senior government
officials on this very subject. Um so
we're ramping it up. Um there's a couple
of key meetings um coming further down
the line. So there's um a speech at
Mansion House. The chancellor's already
been talking, you've probably seen this
in the media, um about reform in terms
of ISAs in general. So whether it's a
cash is or a stocks and shares, there's
been talk about potentially reducing the
cash rate from annual allowance rate,
sorry, from 20,000 to 4,000. That's a
significant drop. Um the chancellor has
just recently came out to say that she's
not going to decrease the overall annual
allowance. So just now you can put up to
£20,000 in.
>> She said that she's not going to reduce
that limit which is great. Um but she
might reduce the cash version of of an
ISA which was obviously benefit and this
goes back to the point more investment
into UK stocks and shares. Um so yeah
it's um it's quite a bold move from
Scottish friendly but we want to be bold
because it's it's our future generation
and bu helping to build financial
resilience. So we're keeping at it. It's
only a matter of weeks um since we've
really started ramping things up.
There's a meeting on the 15th of J July
at Mansion House where we're looking to
get children's savings so junior is
reform as part of the overall um iser
reform. Um and then there's um the big
um budget um in the autumn um from the
chancellor as well. So we're pushing for
um the rules to be relaxed. It's not
going to happen overnight, but we're not
knocking on the doors of, you know, it's
not just Labor, our current government.
We're we're going to be speaking to
other parties as well um to to help kind
of drive that advocacy and um the
momentum and the support behind it. Um
we've also got the Association of
British Insurers on our side as well. So
they're very much supportive and
obviously um we're working with agencies
who have that um specialism in terms of
public affairs who have the contacts to
open the door for us um in both um
Hollywood and Westminster. So it's um
it's exciting um and we're going to keep
keep beating the drum about it and
everything we do in terms of our
research um and our investor index that
we've talked about um really hones in on
um on what we want to do for um
financial literacy for the future
generation. Kevin, I think I'm I say we
I think we're searching for potentially
a deeper meaning here. Maybe something
that's a little heartfelt, but um I know
you guys have invested um in initiatives
with action for children and I just
wanted to ask
why does why is this type of work so
important for Scottish friendly?
>> Yeah, it's um it's really important and
um Action for Children is um amazing
charity. I mean they're across the UK.
We focus um the majority of our activity
with actual children in kind of
Scotland. Um and um we we do a number of
things. I mean we do fundraising
activities with colleagues. Um we've
seen that Scottish friendly colleagues
are really on board. Um I mean we've got
350 colleagues. Um but we raise a lot of
money. 350 colleagues is not, you know,
it's not a big corporate that's got
40,000 100,000 colleagues in the UK or
across across the world. We've got 350.
When I started, we had 100. So, we have
grown significantly. We went from 100
six years ago to 350 over 350. But the
proportion of our colleagues who engage
with action for children is really
really high. I mean, we we have um
initiatives, one thing called boycott
your bed, which is basically sleeping
outside, sleeping rough um outside for
the night. um and really living and
breathing um how homeless people will
feel. And we do that in October, so
we're not, you know, we're not doing
this in the summer. Um you have a
sleeping bag and that's pretty much it.
H you're not allowed a tent. That's
that's not what you know a lot of
homeless people will not have a, you
know, a tent to sleep in. And so it's
really sleeping out rough for the night.
There's other initi I mean we've raised
a lot of money um doing things like that
and there's other initiatives as well
that we do. So that's the fundraising
and it's really really increased in
terms of colleague engagement and
colleagues wanting to get on board. We
also action for children have facilities
across the UK that need some degree of
attention whether it's um you know
painting fences or you know just
building fences or just tidying up
gardens and those are kind of central
hubs where vulnerable children can have
a safe haven. Um the other thing that we
do which um is fairly unique and I'm
getting goosebumps just thinking about
it because this is you use the word
emotive um this is really a motive um we
actually fund for action for children to
well-being practitioners
who go into secondary schools in areas
that need it most around Glasgow. Um so
we we're focused on the Glasgow area
just now. And what those two part-time
practitioners um the reason for that is
they go into schools and they speak to
children who who have issues have mental
health problems um who really need it
and um in those areas and they deliver
workshops with them whether it's um
group workshops or or some of the kids
need face toface workshops. See,
building that initial trust with with
children, that's that's the most
difficult part is is to kind of open of
a two two-way conversation. These
well-being practitioners do a fantastic
fantastic job. We've had them in
speaking to our colleagues about what
they do. Um, and the key is really
trying to help these children with
coping mechanisms and the tools they
need to, you know, to help them. But
it's not just the children. We've seen
in some sec secondary schools that um
it's the families that it's the m and
dad that need a bit of support as well.
So it's the the full family unit in some
respects as well. So that's something
we're really really proud of. Um we're
also in the process um I can't divulge
too much information on this but we are
looking at um financial literacy as a
potential um uh next kind of step on um
you know a charity partner that we could
potentially look at. So, a bit like
mergers and acquisitions where um we're
looking at um various char potential
charity partners who could potentially
um support us in that field as well. So
again, that's not going to be overnight.
We need to we need to choose the right
charity that's going to fit Scottish
friendly and whether that's going to
remain a bit like action for children
within Scotland or whether we um look to
broaden that across the UK as well. But
um that's um initial conversations that
we're currently having with charity
partners within um my team and wider as
well.
>> Kevin, your take on some of the
questions that we've asked you've been
uh spectacular. So uh yeah, you want to
say
>> thank you.
>> Thank you. But um
>> it was enjoyable.
>> We can we can tell that you're most
certainly PR train. I I wanted to just
say before we do wrap up, is there like
um do you have a message um you know
potentially for you know parents um that
are out there that are wanting to you
know consider your particular solutions.
If you were to just have a message for
them, what would it be?
>> Yeah, I suppose um back to what the
conversations with um Lord Lee which was
really refreshing that you know even he
is a millionaire. He was the first a
million but his approach is similar to
ours. is, you know, a little off. Just
start start where you can. Obviously,
pension is is a number one priority in
terms of your retirement. But, um, if
you've got a little bit left at the end,
try and put something away. And for
long-term investing is what we would say
longterm gives you the greater um,
growth potential.
Whereas a savings account, for instance,
obviously we've had um, interest rates
being high. They will they will start to
come down, which means that savings
rates will come down. long-term
investments and for yourself but also
for you know to safeguard your your
family's financial futures as if you can
to think about your um your children as
well.
>> I got to say this has been a a brilliant
conversation you've most certainly
brought to like just how much the um the
savings landscape is shifting but also
what's possible when you know industry
steps up. uh not just you know to build
better products but to you know to push
and to reform and give back to the
community. That's um so really positive
message and hopefully people do receive
it very well. Um
>> brilliant. Thank you.
>> No worries. And for people that want to
try and find um Scottish friendly, where
can they find you guys?
>> Yes, our um website um
scottishfriendly.co.uk
has all the information all the
information there.
>> Good stuff. Well,
Kevin, thank you so much. Co-host
Darnell, thank you. And this has been
another episode.
>> Okay, thanks very much.
>> No worries. Thank you, Kevin.
>> Okay, cheers then. Bye-bye.
