Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Chasing the Game: Youth Soccer in America is a weekly podcast for soccer parents, coaches, and players who want to understand how youth soccer development really works in the United States.
Hosted by two dads, filmmaker Liron Unreich and investor Matt Tartaglia, the show covers everything from grassroots soccer to elite pathways like MLS NEXT and ECNL. Combining data, real experience, and expert insights from academy directors, college coaches, and former pros, each episode explains what families truly need to know.
Weekly episodes focus on the core aspects of youth soccer: player development, coaching culture, college recruiting, tryouts, travel costs, and the challenges of parenting in youth sports in today’s competitive environment.
For families navigating youth soccer’s complex system, Chasing the Game offers practical advice, credible voices, and relatable stories from two dads working to make sense of American player development, one episode at a time.
Techno music blaring
This is the podcast about the maze
of youth soccer and specifically in the U.S., specifically
in New York, I'm your co-host Liron.
I'm your co-host, Matt.
And together we host a what's
going to be now a weekly podcast called Chasing the Game
The platform will going to be pretty rigid.
We usually should have an interview every week and cover a certain subject or a theme.
But we thought we' going to kick it off with some personal stories and
no, this is not about me and Sarit or some other
girlfriend that I had or a boyfriend that you had or a friend that they had or we're not going to do those today.
This is going to be two, three years down the road.
Today we're going to talk about soccer and we're going to talk about our boys.
Absolutely.
Yeah, I'm excited.
We wouldn't be here in
Yeah.
this studio right now in Betsy if it wasn't for the boys, right?
No, and I still vividly remember the day I met you.
What?
I remember..
It was actually early COVID when everybody.
had left New York, kind of made their way back. early June
We were down at Pier 5 in Brooklyn, one
of the most beautiful soccer pitches in the world.
And you were dropping living Levy off.
I was dropping off my son, Miles, and we
were both just so ecstatic that there was a sense of normalcy.
And then the boys were out there playing a game that they love
and that we love.
I remember thinking, who is this guy?
And then the boys were on the same team together in the
fall and we got to know each other and we've been on this incredible journey
respectively with our kids and together
and sharing notes and being each other's therapists along the way.
And it's led to this.
So it's a pretty, pretty epic last five or six years of this.
That's That's very touching.
You guys are just seeing a little bit of video and those that know me,
I don't have the classic athletic physique that you would think of.
But it was important for me as an immigrant.
My wife is an immigrant to kind of fit in the American system.
And why do kids do in America?
They go play sports
And America has this wonderful system that didn't exist
where I grew up, who was if you paid money, your kids played sports.
And if you paid enough money, everybody told you your kids were really good.
And that is f***ing awesome.
And I fell in love with this system very quickly
I looked at my daughter and she is physically inclined,
so sports came very quickly for her and it was gymnastics.
But I tried to get her into soccer because that's the sport I love.
So I said, if I'm going to pay for something,
I'm going to pay for something I like.
I mean, I'm not paying for s*** I don't want to pay for.
But what do I love?
I love soccer.
And I love screaming at my kids.
So it was it felt like a perfect opportunity to
both speaking in an accent, screaming, which then people think
that you're obviously knowledgeable because you come from another country.
Of course, that automatically qualifies you.
Screaming in another language saying to my daughter, for example,
I love you, you're the best, but for someone else, it sounds like you might as well, you know, move there, get your s*** together.
I've heard that tone in when when I didn't know you particularly well, I
was having a hard time deciphering what you were actually saying, and if it was positive or negative.
But it didn't work with her.
She was not impressed, and Sakra did not do it for her, and she stuck with gymnastics
The beautiful part about doing what she's
doing is that it does have the classic American sports
where parents are behind the kids and there's just enough level of competitiveness.
But in that sport, I'm a cheerleader for Liba.
I'm not a cheerleader for the sport.
And this is where things become sticky.
When Lavie is playing soccer, initially it didn't matter what
he played, Lavie was playing soccer.
And I was like, man, that is great.
And he played for this, un I'm sure you know it.
A lot of people from New York.
I think it's all over the United States.
The total grassroots program called AO.
Oh, I didn't you know he played ASO?
There you go.
For those who don't know, and I think probably most do, AO
is when we say grassroots, you play with where there's high grass.
Like it's literally a grassroots, which,
I mean, in New York City, it's difficult to find anything that's grass and not turf, so that's an accomplishment in itself.
And the entry bar is showing
up to 15 minutes late.
So it's really quite an amazing experience.
So I remember I took Lavie and we used to play a little bit in the backyard, but not much.
And we went and we sat there and they coach kind of set all the kids and they were singing these soccer songs.
That I've never heard because when we grew up, soccer was about very
violent boys screaming at you all the time
Nobody was singing unless they were cursinging your mother or your sister.
Otherwise, nobody was singing any.
There are no soccer songs where I grew up if they didn't involve curses.
One of them, a big hit was you can't touchouch the bow with your hands.
So they basically ran through the rules of the game through these songs.
So then the coach said all the kids down, and he said, okay, they
had, I don't know, let's say they were 20 kids and they had their first game.
And let's say they needed seven kids.
I'm throwing numbers now.
And he said said, okay, who wants to start on the bench?
That was the question.
Who wants to start on the bench
And 90% of the kids raise their hand.
Was Lavie one of them?
He looked at me and he was not.
He was not.
And he came in and scored six goals.
Well, you told him.
He said, I just paid $50 for a season.
You're definitely not starting on the bench.
At that point, I felt an enormous amount of satisfaction.
And he's at six at this point.
Five, six?
56 It was
exhilarating.
This was immediately moments of grandeur.
In one second, I had all the memories of me growing up trying
to play, seeing other boys play, better kids, going to the field,
going to see games with my cousins. within one second, like your
life flashes in front of you, we're seeing your little chubby little boy running around
scoring a goal in a grass that probably reaches his breast.
Gives like an amazing moment
And I was just, and I was screaming my lungs.
I and I see people looking at me like, what the f*** is this guy?
Somebody call the cops.
So that was
the, that was my first experience.
And before we get to where you and I met the mutual team, I'd like to hear your first experience.
Yeah..
So I grew up in the States and played soccer
all the way through university.
And, you know, and I think that's probably what
has created the interests and
the passion for the game.
It's but also, of course, with my son.
There was no time I'd rather spend than with him at
a park watching him kick a ball.
I mean, it was that simple, but the joy that it brings, they're
not really doing anything particularly special at this point.
Oh, very good.
Very good.
I've got amazing videos of him too. just completely missing a ball.
But I remember like it was yesterday, right?
And, I've just met incredible people through
the journey, from his first coaches when he was three and four years
old super soccer stars.
Now I remember the song, by the way.
You can't touch the ball with your.
That's the one.
And can't touch the ball with your
hands.
I see?
I know you've been trying to dig these pills to forget this stuff.
I't forget you.
It tap to nerve.
We're still in touch with those coaches from when he was three
and four years old who played a real rolein his life in his life and in our life
And I think living in Brooklyn, it's a little
bit different, perhaps, than in other parts of the country where
American football still rules and it's not that Americans football isn't popular.
But if you walk around Brooklyn on a Saturday morning, you're
going to see just as many kids wearing an arsenal kit or a Liverpool kit
or I don't know about man, you kits anymore, City kits.
And certainly Real Madrid kits in Barcelona kits.
And I just felt this
attraction to the game again, and starting with a
two-year-old and now a 13 year old's eyes, trying
to navigate it all all has been complicated, right?
And lots of highs, a bunch of low's,
and some stuff in between, but it takes a, and it has
been an incredible commitment for everybody in our families, not just miles going through it.
It's a huge sacrifice for many, throughout every
different stage when you think of the logistics and the commitment it takes
to try to play at an elite level or even just trying to play to
compete from Paulo Rossi seeing him in my black and white TV
scoring a goal with my dad and it's so embedded in memory and just
smelling my mom's cooking and then the house and seeing
Israel loose to Australia in the 90th minute on a World Cup qualifier game.
There's a romance to the sport.
So in a way when Lavie started playing, there wasn't a path in my brain.
This is part of why I'm doing this because I actually
feel incredibly naive
because I didn't grow up here about what the path is to what
is considered success here in youth sports.
For example, in the gymnastics, it was pretty clear, pretty quickly this went to scholarship, this went to Olympic.
But in soccer, it it really mattered because it was just the point that one of my kids was playing soccer.
And if one of my kids is playing soccer, that means I'm playing with them.
If I'm playing with them, I'm hopefully meeting
other parents who like the sport..
All of those things came true to a degree.
So as Lavie progressed in,
this is where you and I met, we ended up in a grassroots
plus a team called Future Stars.
I'll tell you what got me hooked on Future Stars
when we were trying to figure out where Miles
was going to play and look living in Brooklyn,
you've got, I don't know, 50, 75 options, maybe, right?
If you actually go into Manhattan or think about Queens, but even just in Brooklyn.
I never realized that.
It's a tremendous amount.
And a lot of it's logistics, like, where can you get your kid after school and how are you going to
get him or her there?
And then, of course, what are the coaches like and what's their philosophy?
But when we were trying to figure it out, they invited us
to the finale of the season.
And he had the captains from each team
from U eight up to youth3.
Get up on stage.
He was at a restaurant and they had a band.
He played in a band and he's a pretty legendary guy.
And each kid talked about what future stars meant to them
as a person and as a player.
And I just sat there and thought, like, what can be better at the time?
I think Miles was eight.
I mean, they really cared about the kid and they cared about creating
a community for the kids, the players and the parents
And it was an amazing experience for two years, right?
And then you realize there's actually, there's also a lot more out there
and there's a different level and there's a different level of commitment and seriousness.
But each of these clubs, I think serves a purpose.
And that was a core part of like the journey for us
and it was an amazing, like there were amazing memories along the way.
I didn't know there was another 75 options.
Now I'm, thank God I didn't because I'd be freaking out.
Right.
But that's what kind of what I I'm saying where my angle of the soccer story is.
It's like almost like a billiard ball where you just,
I just had no, I just was bouncing from place to place
not knowing what's the next stop.
So when we started Future Stars,
I got to tell you, when they put the uniforms on the first time and Lavie came
home, I was almost burst into tears.
I thought this was the greatest thing.
I was like, this can't be better than this.
Forget the Mabit Tel Aviv or Barcelona or any of those.
I don't care.
Look at the uniform.
He looks adorable.
He's got shin guards and shoes and cleats.
We didn't have cleats.
Like, there's this equipment, and wearing it with pride most importantly.
I think people don't understand it unless they're from New York and listen to this.
The boys were practicing between two traffic stops.
They were practicing in in corners of concrete and Little Astroturf.
They were practicing in a rat infested park by the Manhattan bridge.
But at that point in time, I thought this was amazing.
I remember this one time there was a state Cup
and we traveled to, there's a, again, for those who don't know, there's a team in Long Island called Susa.
So what started was, there was a state Cup..
Wow.
A state Cup
Next is's World Cup.
Wow.
You can't a state and you go to the world.
Amazing. a state Cup.
I didn't know we were so good that we managed to qualify to a state cup.
My mind was blown, calling grandparents.
Lavie made it into a state cup.
Another thing I didn't realize, only realized now is you and I have kind of matured into this shows you how na I am.
Lavie was a year younger than the boys.
We traveled to Long Island.
Now, it's the first time I get in a car, I actually have to drive a long way to a soccer game.
This is incredible exhilaration.
I'm sitting with Lavie in the car.
Cheesecake Factory on the way.
It's unbelievable.
And we get straightraight on the LAA.
And we see these massive soccer fields.
No, it's It's a beautiful facilityility.
And at the time, we were only playing on New York City Public
Parks, and occasionally we'd be at Pure 5, which is
an amazing place, but it's still, there's 12 games going on at one time.
Sousa has a soccer only facility, which is beautiful.
Those kids were wearing light blue kits that day,
and they look like little Man City robots.
That's all I remember.
That's right.
And we had this awakening as we lost seven or eight-0.
Holy s***.
What's going on here that's not going on there?
And I think, like for us, and I think that's where it started.
Like the.
How do do we navigate this?
If our kids are that serious and maybe have a little bit of talent, what
else is there and where is it happening?
That was the welcome moment
for the ones who wanted to stay longer.
That was it.
Yeah.
100%.
Because we were so high, so ecstatic about this.
And then when we got slapped like this...
It was like a big game of Rondo.
And I remember I was sitting with Lavie the car on the way back and I said to him, Lavi,
one, if you're going to continue working hard, you're going to might play it Sousa.
Yeah.
By the way, Lavie was unbelievable at it.
It would have been like seven 17.
I just remember the one parent coming up to you after the game.
That's saying, I don't I don't know who this kid is, but what an incredible goalkeeper.
This all happened very quickly after that.
You, I think, were already at the time
starting to transition your ideas of what's out
there outside of when you just proved it that you thought you knew there were 75 options.
We had dinner together.
You mentioned the dec said, Liron, maybe
it's time to..
I actually think it was about a year after that.
Yeah, it took a year.
That was probably late season, let's say, it took almost a year.
And, yeah, we were looking at another club.
Why were you looking at another club?
Yeah, I think the Seuss moment was like a really eye-opening moment for me
where, and then, you know what, we followed that up shortly after.,
but we played world class, which is also another
amazing club, which is an ECL club, great boys and girls programs.
Sousa too, by the way, they're girls. program, which we'll discuss through the season.
Their girls program is second to none.
And world class wiped the turf with us again, and
they played very similar style of football and a
beautiful brand of football to what we saw at Sousa.
And that's where I was like, okay, if we're going to spend all this time
and spend the money, then let's
strive for something that's a little bit better from a competitive perspective.
And look, that's not a knock on, I don't think any of the
programs that we've seen or been attached to, but
there's just a different level in everything in any sport or
in anything that happens in life if people are committed and have the ability to do it.
So, yeah, we sought out different options.
And there was a couple, but like logistically in
the cities, you live in Brooklyn and depending on
where you live in Brooklyn, like we do, and depending on where
the kids go to school, which isn't necessarily where they live, like
getting from Brooklyn to Queens or Brooklyn to Mantanhattan was really hard.
I really wanted Miles to go play for Manhattan Kickers, which is
an incredible program, arguably one of the best development programs in the country.
So for those of don't know, I'll just I'll chime in Manhattan kickers is
considerate a boutique development Academy for,
I think it's U6 to U12 or something like that.
Yeah, exactly.
Yes, and they don't go past that and
there's a high entry bar to get there.
It's also not a cheap club, but this is one of
these development clubs that develops you towards the next level of soccer.
We'll discuss that that club in detail as the show progresses.
Yeah, and I remember reaching out email and getting response back.
I sure, bring them out.
We trained three to four times a week
in Manhattan, and I just thought, wow, he's seven, right?
Or eight, how am I going to get him?
How are we going to get him to Manhattan three or four times?
And what if he wants to do other stuff and the response from the director
look now they look back, was the right one, they love to play.
What's wrong with them playing an hour and a half or an hour and 45 minutes a day?
And there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.
In fact, it's a great thing, especially given what these kids are
what the alternatives are and devices and all the technology and all the stuff that comes with it.
But it was the logistics thing.
So there were other options that we started to look at
and ended up making some different decisions.
But it's hard to think it's seven or eight.
You can make a wrong decision, but in some cases, maybe.
This is a path changing club for
many young talents.
And
you touched upon a point where it's inevitable
that you second guess the decisions you made about your son's path.
Yours mean mine.
This is a, I'm sure for every parent.
You second guess it
because many of us do it live, right?
There's not, even though there's, we consult with each other, I'm
not competitive, as you can see, I'm here to share every piece of information I have.
I know there's people who are more competitive and keep some information.
So there's this's kind of a thing where you start to learn how you learn how to trust someone.
It's hard not to second guess decisions you made.
Apropos your story.
Ours was similar after that that dinner, I called
Carif and I said, oh, you don't, I have all these ideas.
And then she goes, just stop it all this.
Now I said, no, no, Matt told me.
She goes, oh, then it's fine.
Let's do it.
And even specifically, so at the time, Miles was training with Med Oval.
Another club will discover. historical club in Queens
100- year anniversary in 2025.
But specifically, Miles is not a goalie.
Levy is a goalie, and I was watching the goalie training.
Sebastiano.
Sebastiano was
like the best, right?
I never get him on the show.
There is nobody there is not a better goalkeeper trainer anywhere near us and probably beyond that.
Right?
And I was watching the training and I just thought, this is a whole different program.
Right.
And Levi is a really talented kid.
And if he's serious about becoming a goalkeeper, despite you trying to make
him play as a defender and when he was breaking kid's legs just about every other game.
Running to a kid going where we realize
that maybe he's definitely going to be a goalkeeper.
And we had that conversation, right?
And then you guys put it into action and Levy's path took off from there.
But it's not a linear one because this is where I'm going back to the second guessing.
So when we did go to mid Oval,, so we contacted Sebastiano,
who said what many said, they barely answered, but when they do we didn't have a reel for Lavie or Instagram.
I think it just started where you had a couple pictures on Instagram, but we didn't really have any material for him.
You've known me long enough.
I don't shoot video of games or I don't have a lot of archive material for Lavie.
It's just nuts, I like to be in the moment.
Well, it's hard when you're screaming, right?
Like the camera shaking.
I'm an in the moment guy.
I'm in the moment.
So, anyway, Carid contacted
Sebastiano very quickly while I was still contemplating yes, no
And he said, bring Lavie. for us to see.
It took a while for Sebastiano because he's Italian to get back to us.
Crit also heard of this program and that could be from you too.
I don't remember if you heard of this program, Red Bull's program called RDS.
Red Bullvelopment, yes.
And
when you're not in the Academy program,
and I'm sure this is information people would love to know,
the name Red Bulls and RDS, if you're
not in the Academy program, means a lot.
Miles did that as well.
Good program
great access to coaches, huge moneymaker.
Yes.
And there's a cynical side to it, which I, but at the time,
it was actually beyond imagination that Lavie would even be
at the same facility where it says Red Bulls anywhere.
You were talking about going to Queens.
We were going to Jersey for the first time.
Yeah.
And we live in Brooklyn and those who know the city know that it's not a joke.
And that's when things started to get real.
We were doing the later nights and going to RDS.
You were doing that in Whippany too, right?
So you're not just going through the tunnel or over the bridge.
You're way out, yeah.
And at RDS,
if your kid has the talent or you have, I
don't really know what it is, but things can roll pretty quickly there
because like you said, there's enough eyes on a certain kid and you meet kids from the academy as well.
So it gives the kid like a leg up on,
and all of a sudden the parent is out outside of it and the coaches see him without you being there.
It's the first time where Laiva training alone without the coaches knowing me.
I'm always, I'm a big mouth.
I love shaking everybody's hands.
I'm hugging. there.
And it was COVID, so I couldn't even come close.
And at the time, he got into met
Oval midseason, he was doing RDS
and he was still playing at Future Starsc I'm habitually cannot make a decision.
I just cannot, I just cannot.
And I went to Samani, the
coach from Future Stars, and I've asked for his blessing because I said, that's the best way.
Let's go Lavie
We got a man up.
We have an owe this team
can't leave.
You got to go and let the coach give you a blessing to leave.
This is not a bureaucracy.
This is a system run by many, many private entities.
I mean, making changes in club transitions is difficult, right?
Clubs, they invest in kids.
I mean, we invest with them.
We pay them
but they invest a lot of their time.
And I understand it.
You know, like, I don't always understand it in the moment.
And I think back to how situations have been handled that we've been involved with and
not particularly great, but at the same time, I get it.
It's a time investment.
It's an emotional investment.
They care about these kids.
They really do do believe that.
These coaches truly care.
They're not doing this because they don't care.
But the way the communications happen around it isn't always great.
And that's been a tough
part of the experience.
I never want to let, I know you and you know me.
Like, I don't ever want to let people down.
Right.
And feel like we're not loyal or whatever it may be.
But at the end of the day, these kids have one chance to do this.
And you have to do what you think is best for them.
And you have to listen to the kids, of course
But at eight, nine years old, they're not always going to have a full
perspectivepective on how to look at things.
But as they get older, they certainly have a better perspective and
they start to control the narrative in a significant way, which is exactly the way it should be.
So mid Oval, he started doing working withibbastiano.
We were ecstatic.
At that point, you and I were starting to separate.
The boys were starting to separate by ages.
Lavie is younger than miles by year.
We were training in Mid Oval, Red Bull Bulls was doing their pre-academy tryouts.
We were at RDS, and he was doing mid Oval.
He was doing RDS, and Sebastiano then came to us and said
don't go to Red Bulls.
So Red Bulls is a great club.
But keep your son with me.
Let him train with me.
And this is what I mean about the second guesses.
At that point, when Lavie got into Red Bulls,
there was no question that Lavie was going to Red Bulls.
And there was no question because LaVie wanted to go to Red Red Bulls.
But despite what it meant for your family, right?
And for Levy.
I didn't realize that.
I thought, no brainer.
We'll figure it out when it comes.
So
I'm not going to get into all the details of Red Bulls was wonderful to Lavie.
It didn't work out because of the distance.
And then NYCFC came.
And NYCFC, which we'll talk a lot in this show as well.
It was another amazing gift for Lavie.
And I will talk about how Lavie got into NYCFC as we delved deeper into scouting
and this system here of how to get into academies in New York.
Do you have the blueprint on that?
We're working on it.
This is part of the show, but people have to listen for about two seasons.
But the long story short is that all this time has gone
by, Lavi still trains once a week with Sebastiano.
But I do question every day, what if he trained four days a week with Sebastiano?
What if he trained five days a week with Seb?
But you know what?
Like you said, no guidebook.
So that's my point about second guessing.
Where do you feel like are you with Miles these days?
Wow, man, it's so complicated, honestly, and it's become more and more complicated.
He's a super late birthday.
And I give my wife a hard time all the time.
Like three more days, two more days, it would have been a big difference
He's progressed physically, I would say, slower than a lot of kids.
He's lean.
He's quick, he's fast.
He's pretty athletic, but he's still some 100 pounds.
He just cracked five feet pretty recently. old guy.
Yeah, yeah.
And so is April.
Yeah, it'll come for him.
I'm not worried.
Not a toll guy.
April's a toll.
He've been part of two U-13, U4.
He played MLS next for two different clubs.
Met Oval was one, and FA Euro was another where he spent a couple years
and developed a lot as a player.
And there's a lot that go into decisions around
why you move and what that looks like.
And January was a big moment for him.
You spent six months at Met Oval, a decent adjustment, I would say, to the club.
There were some
bumps in the road, which I don't
think is uncommon, but amazing club.
And I think he was trying to figure out his way.
His position was changed.
There was just a lot to it.
And they wanted him to play now and to play MLS Next, which I think was very reasonable
And he came to us and said, listen,
I'm in the car or I'm on the bus to school or in the car in
transit in general for two and a half hours a day, four
to five days a week, and that doesn't even take into account what the weekends look like.
When we were traveling all over
He was playing anywhere from 30 to 45 minutes, max 50.
You got 23 players in training.
You've got 18 rostered.
You've got a few out, you've got kids playing down, you've got kids playing up.
There's a lot going on, a lot for these kids to process
And I think he came to the conclusion, I wouldn't say,
on his own, I think it was somewhat forcedced when he was when it was suggested
that he'd play on now that he wanted to take a step back.
and it's crushing.
Youither the kid?
he didn't talk for two days.
And I think his dream of
being a professional footballer, I think he had started to
see how difficult that was.
And as a situation like this, it became very apparent to him
just how, not necessarily how difficult, but what was out there.
I think it became very, real to him.
And he realized that he was giving up so much as far as social life
as far as anything, right?
Like he wasn't four days a week.
He wasn't coming home until 8.30 at night.
He leaves at 8 o'clock in the morning.
It's a lot.
It's a lot for anybody, let alone a 12, 13 year old kid.
So we decided to pull him mid-year.
And that sucks, by the way.
There's nothing about leaving a club in January that feels good for
anybody, but I decided, we decided that we wanted to do what was best
for our son, and it wasn't about quitting, right?
It really wasn't.
It was about making sure that he didn't lose his passion for the game.
And I could see the passion for the game going away
with the questions, with the murkiness,
with the, you're not going to play with the team you've
just integrated into in the last five or six months.
So we pulled him out.
He's playing for a club in Brooklyn now called Albion, which is a national club.
There's 20 different teams, I think, in, I don't know, five or six different states
The quality is a little bit different than I think what he was accustomed to, but it's okay.
There's some great players on the team.
These kids are committed.
There's a wonderful coach.
I think organizationally, they've been great, and he's
going to spend some time rebuilding his confidence, finding the joy
and passion for the game.
And if he wants to compete at the highest level, then it's up to him.
You know, like the talent, the foundation, I think it's there.
He's got to decide if that's what he wants in his life.
I'm at the point where
he's going to do what he wants to do and not what I tell him to
do or what I suggest for him to do.
And I think ultimately in life, that'll play out well for him, but
it's certainly creates some friction, especially for somebody like
me who's as passionate about this as I am and
we've been along for the journey and I just have to remind myself or my wife has to remind me that
it's not, it's not my career, right?
Like I had mine and it's his.
So.
How can you draw the line?
It's really hard.
I would say generally speaking, I probably suck at it.
And it's really difficult.
Like he's presented with great opportunities to go play
in Portugal this summer go play in England.
He went to England last summer in an amazing experience.
But he's got to want that.
It can't just be me wanting that for him.
And he's always wanted it.
And I think he needs to
figure out what he wants most and process those thoughts.
And he knows that we're here to support him, whatever it is, right?
Whether it's soccer or anything else.
But I just think there's so much value in trying to compete in
anything at the highest possible level.
And that's, I think, what I fell in love with more so than having
an MLS next badge on the sleeve or
a N badge or now an elite Academy badge or whatever it
may be, it's really trying to be the best at
whatever it is that you are and showing that type of commitment.
But you don't think
the fact that he played soccer had more to do with
it for you being, because you you love the game.
I know you.
You're profession involved in it.
You live the game, that must mean something.
And this is something your son sees the important part of your life.
Yeah.
I mean, that's something I ask myself all the time, right?
Has he been doing this for the last two or three years and living this crazy
life where he's got no time and he's
rarely home and not able to hang out with his friends because of me.
And that's not a great feeling, right?
At the end of the day, I think what we all want is our
kids to be happy, is our kids to work hard
to be good kids, to strive for greatness in whatever it is.
And I ask myself the question all the time.
And it's hard to let go.
You think he's happier now?
I think so.
I think he's relieved.
He doesn't talk a lot about it.
He still really doesn't talk about it.
And by the way, he never complained.
That's the irony of it all.
He He never said, I don't want to go to training.
He never said, I don't like training.
It was never that.
I think it just all boiled up.
I think that's part of why we're doing this.
I mean, there's, there's 30 professional academies in this country, right?
With MLS Next
I guess you could argue USL has professional academies
as well, or has academies that are attached to a professional club.
So those could be considered professional. academies too.
But other than that, and MLS Next has done an amazing job, right?
I mean, I think it's a higher level of competition.
It's national.
There's a lot of great things.
It's partly why we're doing this, right?
Like unpacking all of this and
is it good?
What's good?
What's not good?
How can it be improved?
What's working really well?
But I do feel like I've lived it pretty hardcore in the last three years.
I hate to break it to you.
You're not done yet.
Before the show, you and I
were just talking, and I know there's still a twinkle in your eye about this.
You've shown me video of Miles and his last performance in his tournament.
So obviously the spark for the game is definitely not gone and the spark
for Miles succeeding specifically in the game is not gone.
And the idea that
Miles can rekindle that
that when he grows a little bigger and all of a sudden puberty hits.
And now people will discover that one thing that
you thought he had or given him that strength to move to the next level.
Of course.
And I think the checkpoint for me is
is he happy?
And what makes him happy?
And sometimes things that make me happy don't necessarily make him happy.
And sometimes there's things that make him happy that don't make me happy.
And we're, you know this, you spend so much time with Lavie
in getting to training and going to matches like you
end up spending like I split from my wife and my daughter because
I'm with him and we all do this as families.
We all have to make these decisions because it's impossible to do it otherwise.
So we spend a ton of time together and my parents were
super involved parents with all my sports
Mine were not, obviously.
We didn't grow up like that.
That culture didn't exist.
But I also played five sports.
In addition to playing soccer at a pretty high level, here, it's another thing.
Like, it's just, it's almost impossible.
Everything else fell off.
So if you lose the passion and love for one sport
when you're 12 and 13 years old, when roughly 70% of
kids fall off, right, at 13 years old, who have been playing since they were five or six.
And you haven't played another sport or you're not playing other sports and you've committed
all this time and all this energy to one.
And it's your identity.
And to see if your kid becomes so one dimensional in a way.
So Lavie, we always joke believe
it or not, plays violin and he loved music
and he used to draw but as
you see, one thing gets peeled off as kind of soccer takes over.
It's another layer that goes off and there's a one dimensionality that happens to the kid.
It's a scary feeling because you as a parent on the side saying
when this ends and it will end, he has
lost five,000,000 hours that he could have invested in something else.
And he could have still done recreational sports, be in good shape and
not be on a device, but not have to do it six times a week in the highest competition level.
I see it even more on the physical trait now
This was something I didn't realize when he was much younger.
I'm talking to him like he's an adult, but
I just saw This is exactly the point..
The idea of size becomes really important.
And Lavie is a goalie, size is now quadruply important.
All of a sudden he has to be aware of whether is he going to be 6'1?
Is he going to be six?
Is he going to be 6’2”?
These are things that are not even his f***ing control.
I can't tell him work harder you're going to be 6'2.
That is where the losing battle is.
Yeah, L, it's like, it's such a good segue into
one, how we, the name of this pod.
The chasing that Miles did
is not a trivial one.
I just want to talk about it for a couple seconds.
The concept of MLS or that label
of MLS or MLS next, I don't even know if that there's
an equivalent of that in any other sports in the United States on that young age.
So I want to reiterate this idea that these are young kids.
This is not kids that eventually will go to high school and then to
college and there's a path and then a draft or whatever.
This is their draft.
This is their beginning of this kind of scale. their soul, this idea
that they're in this already elite club, which they
are as players, but there's an idea that,
so now there's only a, there only can go down.
You and I always joke.
Lavie is an NYCFC goalie for NYCFC Academy.
On paper
Lavie is at the top of a American
soccer goalie universe.
That does not mean, and I'm going to say this clear
as day, that my son is a top goalie in the United States
at his age, but where he is positioned
in the hierarchy, Laic can only go down.
I know it's cynical, I know it's cruel to say.
I think that's real.
I mean, look, I think the other, you were talking about age,
I think, I mean, soccer, football, whatever we're calling it on this pod
is pretty unique also because
kids who grew up here playing and your son plays at NYCFC,
I don't think his dream is to be the first team goalkeeper at NYCFC.
And that's no disrespect
to the first team goalkeeper at NYCFC.
Like they're amazing, they're amazing players.
But these kids all dream about going to play in Europe, right?
And we've talked about that on the intro, about what the percentages are.
And I think there's 35 American players playing in the top five
leagues in Europe right now and you think about the population of America and you think about how many kids
play soccer and it's an incredibly, incredibly
low probability, but they all dream and they strive for
it, which is you know, a great and very ambitious
dream to have, but they commit themselves.
They put the time into it.
But I think the other thing that's at play here is the age
So, I mean, you're seeing kids who are being
assigned to homegrown contracts, playing MLS next two for
NYCFC or Red Bull or the crew.
Wonderful thing for these kids who have physically developed and emotionally developed.
It's also an interesting message to be sending to kids who are 12, 13, 14
who aren't quite there yet.
So you're as a parent, right?
You have a life wisdom.
You think you do.
And your life wisdom means is that there is a gradual path for a kid to grow
as they receive information and slowly get better at what they do this enormous
amount of, you want to be in Carnegie Hole, you got to practice 10,000 hours.
You want to get to Harvard, you got to study a certain path.
There is a jumping board here that is so high.
It's like a level of difficulty in a video game
where you're playing level six, everything is easy and then all of sudden level level seven, it spikes up.
And now it's only, you're only coming down.
And how do you tell the kid it's okay?
It's no big deal.
Yeah.
And look, we know that life is not
linear, but they don't.
Especially if you look at your son and look at what his progression has been.
So far, it's been pretty long. linear for him.
But everything as a parent tells us
like this level of specialization, this
many hours, this type of commitment, the
late nights, the traveling, which, by the way, means more
time on devices usually, tells us this is insane.
the probabilities, but yet we're all out
there and these kids are all out there chasing.
And
for some of them, it's going to work out beautifully.
And I think part of what we want to try to uncover through this series also
is, what about the ones who invest all that time and make sacrifices
and that may be not going to university and becoming a pro?
And that may become a pro in the U.S. That might be in Europe.
That might be in South America
What's the outcome?
What are you working towards?
And if it doesn't work out, how do you rebound?
Your entire identity is wrapped up and it's not just soccer.
I think it happens across all youth sports in this country and it certainly happens in some places in Europe
But in Europe, it's even more interesting.
Because at 18 or 17, if
you're not training anymore with a Cat 1
Academy or pro Academy,
you're done.
They don't have universities.
They don't have football and universities.
So you either come to the States, a lot of
options, which we'll discuss how NCAA is now seeing European
players, which was not the case five years ago.
Yeah, no, very different.
And by the way, like taking lots of scholarships,
right, making it harder for American kids to get scholarships in this isn't
like a, I'm not trying to be pro-America.
We need to give kids scholarships.
It's just changed the dynamic in a significant, in a very significant way
And it's going to get more.
The more kids who go to England to play, who aren't
English means that there are less English kids in the system there who then
end up coming here and the same thing for other countries.
I don't think it's bad.
I just think it's changing the landscscape significantly.
And I think what we're going to hopefully try to do here is
bring people on to talk about how the landscape is changing and
how that's going to impact kids who are striving to find themselves in.
Our next few interviews are, I would say, pretty major as far as
the personas or people in that
lead soccer sports in the United States.
I don't want to spill the beans quite yet..
On social, you'll know.
But I want to bring two personal anecdotes just to try to wrap it up.
And one of them I'm struggling with and one was just something that happened to me today.
Lavie heard his back a couple weeks ago
in a silly accident in school.
My first reaction
was angry that he got hurt
by fooling around in school.
Not my first reaction was, "H he okay?
And that made me not feel great.
Then
You mean you don't think a 12 year old boy That's right.
And goes like, Le, when it's someone at your stature, you
are your responsibility, you can't make these kind of mistakes.
I said, what am I saying?
The second is looking at him saying, all right, you look like you can walk.
You should go practice
Instead of saying, maybe my kitchen rest.
Another thing.
Today, I told you with pride, and then I stopped
myself that Lavie, didn't go to practice,
but he ended up going on a soccer roof to train for a couple hours on his own.
But then
he was feeling too much pain, so he went back home.
Why wouldn't I be more proud if
I said Lavie took these two weeks off and read a f***ing book
and went back and picked up the violin again?
And part of the rewiring or the
perspective, this is what the hope this show would be able to give a lot, is to the
parents as well and the trainers and the coaches
to guide those kids to be in the right place of mind.
Yeah, look, we should put it out there.
I think we're both certifiably a little bit
mental.
We're almost crazy enough to start a podcast.
We're almost crazy enough to start a podcast.
And I know that we're not the norm, but we've certainly come across
a ton of parents who are equally passionate
about their kids ultimately finding their love and their passion in this successful path.
And there's no perfect formula for this stuff.
There just is no perfect formula.
Kids whose parents have never played have no interest in the game
and the kids excel in every possible way.
But the parents have committed to getting them there, right?
And changing their entire life to get them there.
Other kids whose parents have been professional
footballers who have been really involved in the game.
And it doesn't click for the case.
We'll have some of those guests as well, by the way.
There's another big one coming out.
And they let it go.
And they realize that much faster, I think in
some cases, that other parents that it's not
the end all be all, right?
And I think trying to keep a focus on
what's really important for these kids and ultimately
what's going going to give them the greatest joy.
I mean maybe that's better, you know, because if you were actually in the sport as an
adult, you would have a clearer perspective than we do.
I have one more anecdote.
The dad and the family live
in one neighborhood that's
across the street from Academy A, but
the dad and the son choose to travel to
Academy B. That's two and a half hours.
Oh, this happens all the time.
I don't know what the 11 year
old's attachment was, whether it was style of play
or the coach or the fit or the logo or the dream they had.
Or
maybe the 11-year old just met some really great kids.
Maybe he developed friendships with these
kids where he wants to continue to play with them.
I think we, I am certainly been guilty of this.
We forget these kids aren't robots.
Like their lives can be so robotic.
You wake up at every day, you wake up at the same time.
you get to school at the same time.
You're in school those eight hours.
You get picked up, you go to training.
You've got 45 minutes to run rush and get there.
God forbid, have a chance to go to the bathroom and eat something.
You train for two hours.
It takes you an hour to get home
You eat, you do your homework.
You hopefully shower.
And then you go to bed.
And then you wonder, like, why aren't these kids happier?
Why aren't they joyful?
And I think that's where I had to check myself with Miles
situation where he came to me and said, I can't do this anymore.
I was like, wow
he's never said any word about it.
And for him to actually recognize that it was
too much was a pretty amazing thing for a,
it just turned 13 the week before that.
And it doesn't make it easier, but it
it hit me at that that moment.
Like, wow, he recognized it, but I just kept plowing for.
Wow, that was that was amazing, Matt.
On this personal note, we're going to wrap up the
first episode of the season, official season for episode.
As I mentioned, we have a few interviews coming up, which we're
very proud of, which I think will be a good Kickstarter for everybody's
journey, ours and yours, listeners.
I'm excited to see what we' what's
going to unravel here, both on a personal level as I
give you guys a live update on our development.
But just to see what I discusscover as a parent is a
part of a community and I'd like to be able to help as much as I can.
Matt, any words of wisdom?
Yeah, I think we're both doing this.
One, it's somewhat therapeutic, but two, I
think, maybe erroneously, but we believe that we've
seen a decent amount in our kids who are one's 13 and
Levy's about to be 13, right, coming up in July
that hopefully our stories resonate.
Hopefully we can learn together and some way, shape, or form be helpful.
And not only parents' journeys are as
coaches or academies or anybody thinks about this process
Ultimately, I think we all want the same thing, right?
Which is these kids to have the ability to be great
and to be happy and to be kids.
And then ultimately to compete at the highest level, if that's what they choose to do.
And I hope many will learn from our mistakes and we'll enjoy our successes as well.
So
welcome everybody to Chasing the game.
I'm your co-host Liron.
And I'm your co-host Matt.