153 "How can healing ripple through a family?" Part 1 with Onsite Alum Carl, Mindy, Sydney, and Brandon

At Onsite, we have discovered that when one person gets healthy, they often inspire and give permission to the people around them to do the same. This is especially true in family systems.

This episode is a beautiful testament to this idea. When Carl returned from his Living Centered Program, he vowed to tell everyone he knew and help others find the same healing he'd experienced — especially those in his immediate family.

Over the next two episodes, we'll introduce you to Carl and Mindy, their daughter Sydney, and son-in-law Brandon. All four are Onsite alums, and they join Hannah and Mickenzie to share how their individual Onsite experiences have impacted their relationships with themselves, their partners, and their larger family unit.

Today, we're bringing you a conversation between Mindy and Carl and a separate conversation between Sydney and Brandon. Tomorrow, join us for a conversation with the four of them as they explore the rippling impact of healing within a family!

Mentioned in this episode:
4:28 - Who are Mindy and Carl?  
8:09 - How to parent adult children 
13:10 - The importance of equipping your kids with mental health resources 
19:29 - How Mindy and Carl blended their family after divorce 
20:34 - How Mindy and Carl overcame therapy stigma and established a culture of personal growth in their home 
23:20 - Mindy and Carl's Onsite experiences 
41:06 - Who are Sydney and Brandon? 
44:26 - How communication has played a role in Sydney and Brandon's relationship 
45:28 - Sydney's Living Centered Program experience 
48:51 - Brandon's experience with therapy before Onsite 
50:14 - The impact of Onsite on Sydney and Brandon's relationship 
1:02:49 - Experiential therapy and boundaries in our closes relationships
1:09:05 - How  personal mental health can influence parenting 

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Creators & Guests

Host

Hannah Warren

Creative Marketing Director at Onsite

Host

Lindsey Nobles

Vice President of Marketing at Onsite

Host

Mickenzie Vought

Editorial and Community Director at Onsite

Editor

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What is Living Centered Podcast?

So many of us go through life feeling out of touch with ourselves, others, and the world around us. We feel disconnected, overwhelmed, distracted, and uncertain of how to find the clarity, purpose, and direction we so deeply, so authentically, desire. The Living Centered Podcast in an invitation to another way of living.

Every episode, we sit down with mental health experts, artists, and friends for a practical and honest conversation about how to pursue a more centered life—rediscovering, reclaiming, and rooting in who we truly are.

Carl: 00:07

Of course, parents learn this intuitively over time. You're not the only people on the planet. And perhaps the advice, the exact same advice given from someone else has 3 times the impact than if his dad says it or if mom says it again. So we're just kind of trying to let those gaps be filled in and support them in their chaotic crazy lives. But letting them know that there's always hope out there, there's always people to talk to and a resource to tap into.

Sydney: 00:38

Onsite gonna impact our family like a stone in the water. It's gonna have many ripples that are just gonna continue to grow larger from the inside out. A dream would be to have Brandon and I in such individual great places in a relationship demonstrating such strong communication skills that she has the space to, you know, not cope with trauma on her own and we can work through things and there's space for her to express those emotions and us to have those conversations without the other noise of things that are going on with Brandon and I, kind of too loud in the room for her voice to be heard or for her to be thinking how she feels rather than thinking about others.

Mickenzie Vought: 01:18

Welcome to the Living Centered Podcast, a show from the humans at Onsite. If you're new to this space and just beginning this journey, we hope these episodes are an encouragement, a resource, and an introduction to a new way of being. If you're well into your journey and perhaps even made a pit stop at Onsite's Living Centered Program or one of our other experiences, we hope these episodes are a nudge back toward the depth, connection, and authenticity you found. In this series, we sat down with some of our favorite experts and emotional health sojourners to explore the relationships that make up our lives. From our friendships to our families or families of choice to our relationship with ourselves, part practical resource and part honest storytelling that will have you silently nodding me too.

Mickenzie Vought: 02:04

This podcast was curated with you in mind. Let's dive in. Alright, friends. Welcome to another episode of the Living Centered podcast. Today, you are in for an absolute treat.

Mickenzie Vought: 02:18

As we round out this series that we've had all about the relationships that make up our lives, I was honored to get to sit down with 4 Onsite alum who shared the impact that the Onsite experience has had on their relationships. It all starts with a man named Carl, who attended a Living Centered Program. He came back from his experience so transformed, he wanted everyone he knew to attend Onsite And he has committed to making it an effort to share Onsite with the people in his life. Many friends and family, his wife, Mindy, who you'll meet in this interview, several of his children and their spouses, including his daughter, Sydney, and her husband, Brandon, who you'll also meet in this interview, have since gone to Onsite, and the ripple impact just keeps growing.

Mickenzie Vought: 03:05

So this family graciously agreed to give us an inside look into their stories and how this work has impacted their relationships with themselves, in their partnerships, in their larger family, in their leadership, and beyond. Hannah and I got to sit down for 2 separate conversations, first with Mindy and Carl, and second with Sydney and Brandon, and those are a part of this larger episode. I'm so excited for you to get to meet them. And then tomorrow, to just really end this series with a splash, we are giving you a bonus episode of my conversation with all 4 of them. It was a really beautiful and vulnerable conversation.

Mickenzie Vought: 03:48

And if you're listening, thinking, what family is this healthy? I also had this question. And I just love that they showed up so authentically and so willing to say, hey, we've missed it. But the core of their family is the repair. And I loved how much they talked about that.

Mickenzie Vought: 04:06

And so I'm excited for you to meet this family. As we round out this series on relationships, I am grateful for each and every one of you who has gone with us on this journey. Let's jump in. To kick off our conversation with Mindy and Carl, I asked them to introduce one another, and I love how this set up our conversation.

Carl: 04:28

Mindy is a seer of

Mickenzie Vought: 04:32

Mhmm.

Carl: 04:33

Life. She's a listener. She will often sit quietly and really lean into what people are saying or how may she be able to support them. She's very skilled. I tend to learn through listening to books and talking to people, and she is a reader and an absorber.

Carl: 04:55

She has, you know, a past that gave her a bad first bite of the apple of therapy. So I think she turned inward towards her spirituality, but more towards the book as far as learning. So when we're in front of clients in our business or certainly around the kids, her insight is invaluable, and she draws from a deep knowledge base.

Mickenzie Vought: 05:19

Mhmm. I love that.

Carl: 05:20

And she's beautiful.

Mindy: 05:21

Oh, man. She's Yeah. All that stuff. So, Carl, I always, tongue in cheek, say you're either gonna love him or you might hate him. Yeah.

Mindy: 05:34

He is a an extreme personality who I love because he usually says what I'm thinking, is not afraid of saying, you know, something that stirs the pot or gets the conversation going much deeper than, what most people like to stay at. Sometimes I sense that the person's not ready to go that deep. So I'm like, hey. Let's go into this a little bit later. But he loves the underdog.

Mindy: 06:02

He loves people. He is extremely passionate. He is the most handsome when he smiles and laughs, which I have not heard in a very long time except for when Onsite is onboard. So I don't know. I'm just like, go go go to Onsite because you laugh and you smile.

Mindy: 06:21

But he he cares. He cares so deeply for me. He cares so deeply for our family, our kids, the world, and he loves big. He loves big.

Mickenzie Vought: 06:33

That's lovely. Thank you guys for introducing each other. I think this is one of my favorite exercises that sometimes we do at Onsite You might be in a group room, and it's called, like, an angel exercise. And you have to introduce yourself, not as yourself, but in the perspective of someone who really cares and loves for you.

Mickenzie Vought: 06:51

And so I love that you both did that and gave us that gift, to see a unique perspective into one another. What does this season of your guys' life kinda look like? Can you give us a overview of where you're at and what it looks like right now?

Carl: 07:05

The cliche organized chaos seems to drop into the, the frontal lobe. As of this day, we've already had our first grandchild being born in Nashville. Our second grandchild was born here in the Detroit area early last week. Mhmm. We've had one wedding in London.

Carl: 07:28

We have another wedding out in Jackson Hole, Wyoming in August. Plus, we work together and have 6 kids and spouses and summertime. So there's a lot going on in our lives that fill every moment that gets created either on the calendar or in our in our head. So it's like everybody, and I love the we have fallen we have fallen deeply into the human doing and the thinking rather than the human being and the feeling. So we tend to find ourselves on automatic pilot of just do the next thing on the list.

Mickenzie Vought: 08:06

Yeah. I read in there with that, for sure.

Mindy: 08:09

We are definitely in a stage of change.

Mickenzie Vought: 08:15

Mhmm. I

Mindy: 08:16

think we're I mean, I think you're always in change, but I think it's been a very notable change for us. You kind of get through the stage of getting your kids raised from little kids through high school, graduation. They've all made it through college and they are all, contributing members of society. So it's the woo hoo. Yay.

Mindy: 08:39

Here's the that we did that part of parenting. Yeah. But now you're entering the adult relationship, or the relationship with your adult children. Yeah. And that is as challenging as figuring out sometimes what a crying baby needs because we don't wanna be the helicopter parent anymore.

Mindy: 09:00

We've already done that, and we did that quite well. So we're we're learning how to be good parents to adult children. We have great kids who know that we love them and know that we've, you know, made mistakes, but we try to identify them, apologize, rectify, not do continue to do it again. I think that that's the thing that we've always tried to do is we understand we'll make mistakes, but don't keep making the same dumb mistake. At work, we've been working together for 30 some years.

Mindy: 09:32

We had a team in place that we absolutely loved and adored, and that crumbled, god, Carl, 5, 4 years ago, with just, you know, one of our coworkers going off and doing her dream job,

Mickenzie Vought: 09:46

which

Mindy: 09:46

we love for her, but we miss her terribly because she was great. She always brought the laughter and the fun factor to to the team. And then our partner of 22 years, 25 years died of pancreatic cancer in 8 weeks, and that was just a horrifying thing to go through. Yeah. So we're rebuilding, and so we're always changing.

Mindy: 10:10

We're always just doing the, what next? What what who am I today? What do I need to be today? So and and we're always looking for the best version of ourselves. So It's

Mickenzie Vought: 10:20

a lot of transition in a short amount of time.

Hannah Warren: 10:22

All of that. That is a lot of change. I think I'd love to camp out a little bit on you were speaking to the dynamics of you both kinda spoke to family dynamics, both Carl, you and you kinda listing all of the all of the different relational areas you have in as it sounds like dad and grandpa and friend and coworker and all these things. And then, Mindy, as you were speaking to, the relational complexities of changing into that adult parent and adult child relationship, I think that is something that I have new awareness into as I am an adult child now and seeing I'm the youngest of my family, so seeing my family kinda shift into this phase too. And I don't think I fully understood a lot of the impact that had on my parents until I started doing my own work at Onsite because I was in relationship with other parents in my group that were navigating the adult child adult parent relationship, and I didn't really understand how much that was shifting for them because I knew it had shifted for me.

Hannah Warren: 11:18

I was an adult for the first time, and I was figuring out all of this life. But for them, I I think I've learned a lot of empathy and, like, grief too. Like, a lot of things have changed, and a lot of relational dynamics have changed. I'd love if you could speak to just kinda, like, what you've been learning in that season of of this season of parenthood. You guys have mentioned that you have a large family, 6 kids, blended family.

Hannah Warren: 11:43

Yeah. What are your personal learnings as a human? Are you are you navigating as you are trying to figure out how to be an adult parent to adult children?

Mindy: 11:53

Letting go and just being comfortable with that,

Mickenzie Vought: 11:59

grieving. Go. Yeah.

Mindy: 12:05

I would love to have my children all in the house with me. And I keep telling Carl I want out of this house not because I hate this house, but I hate our our emptier house is now.

Mickenzie Vought: 12:16

Mhmm. I

Mindy: 12:19

you can't get those fun, unified times back. And so you look forward to having 1 on one time with each of your kids and their spouses and and learning that. So it's like trying to let go of that, just what we've known as just this big family of 8 that just rolled around and played and fought and, you know, argued and, you know, all of that stuff that we were so used to. And now it's just, like, you have to see them individually and let them become their own family. Yeah.

Mindy: 12:56

Carl, you can step in anytime now. And it's you're so proud of your kids, and you just you still want more of your kids, but you get less and less and less of them. That's what I grieve. So

Carl: 13:10

So there is the feeler Mhmm. Of the Yep.

Brandon: 13:14

Of the

Carl: 13:15

family, and I think we're great compliments to each other. My greatest strength, I think, is my greatest weakness, which is I go right to the brain and try to sort it all out. We're at a season in our life now where since day 1 of the divorces and the intentionality towards the kids, has never stopped. In fact, it seems as Mindy just expressed with the emotions to be magnifying. And we've always kind of felt like that the intent of what we're doing, I don't wanna say doesn't matter, but it's the it's the impact that matters as much as I think we figured out.

Carl: 14:00

We're big believers that we you know, you've heard the old expression, you don't know what you don't know.

Mickenzie Vought: 14:06

Mhmm.

Carl: 14:07

And my last two visits to Onsite I had a big old spotlight that pointed out to me some things that were key that I think I was aware of, but I didn't understand the the role that it was playing. So, what's working for us now is really being contemplative on what to offer the kids, what to be gentle with ourselves and continue to to, for me, move out of my head and into my heart and and join Mindy in that space. So that's that's where we're at with the kids as they embark on their career changes into their new marriages, into having kids of their own. It's it's fast and furious.

Mickenzie Vought: 17:07

As I listened to Mindy and Carl share the amount of transition and change their family has been through the last few years, I reflected on the idea that every time someone is added or subtracted from a family unit, either by birth or marriage or death, the entire family unit reorients and adjust. And honestly, it's bound to take a toll on a family system. As a blended family with 6 kids, Carl and Mindy's family is no stranger to transition. I was curious how they've helped their family navigate these changes over the years. Here's what they had to say.

Carl: 17:41

I think we always try to meet the kids where they're at, but we're smart enough to know that what we may think they're struggling with is not what they're struggling with at all. And that's true with young kids in particular. We learned it with the 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12 year olds, high school girls, you you assume that they're struggling with this particular item, but if you can get them to share and get them to express where they're at, we were often shocked at what they were actually feeling and what they were actually worried about versus what we thought. So even as loving parents that try to guide and teach, we may be missing the mark. We may be way off, and that's why we've always offered, additional insight.

Carl: 18:28

And, you know, the experiential part of what I went through at Onsite meets you in that place of let's just all agree that we that we don't really know where we're at, and let's go find it. So we're trying to offer that for their kids, and, of course, parents learn this intuitively over time. You're not the only people on the planet, And perhaps the advice the exact same advice given from someone else has 3 times the impact is than if his dad says it or

Mickenzie Vought: 18:56

if Yeah.

Carl: 18:57

Mom says it again. So we're just kinda trying to let those gaps be filled in and support them in their chaotic crazy lives. But letting them know that there's always hope out there, there's always people to talk to and a resource to tap into.

Hannah Warren: 19:15

You've alluded to resources for your family. Has therapy and mental health resources always been a thing that you've kind of integrated into your family, offered for your family? What was your family relationship with mental health?

Carl: 19:29

That, Hannah, got kicked into 4th or 5th gear as we were very intentional blending the families to look. Historically, there there's damage that's done. This has created some brokenness, and we didn't just zippity doo da on with our life. There was a heavy intention towards how is he doing, how is she doing, what can we do to support them. So we were all hands on deck.

Carl: 19:58

There was enough books, you know, about the never ending legacy of divorce by Wallerstein that talked about the damage that's being done that you don't know that's being done. It wasn't until my first visit to Onsite that I learned what I believe now is the real definition of trauma. When Carlos shared that, trauma is just simply the absence of loving. And so we right out of the gates, I'll let Mindy talk to it, really focused on being alert and aware of what was going on around us.

Mickenzie Vought: 20:34

Both Carl and Mindy shared that while they leaned into being intentional with their children and offering them resources to address what was going on for them, they both had difficult first brushes with therapy in childhood. Mindy shared that after abuse in her home came to light, she was court ordered to therapy. And as a teenager, she was not set up to find the healing she needed in that space, because she set up walls to guard and protect herself. Carl shared that as a young boy with chronic illness, doctors suggested he see a therapist, and it didn't go well. Both left a bit of a stigma around the word therapy for them.

Mickenzie Vought: 21:10

But Mindy went on to share that as a couple, they continued to pursue growth, health and wellness in other spheres to help them in their journey.

Mindy: 21:20

I did a couple experiential types of things, which was very good because 1 on 1, I can my defenses are up. Yeah. And it I needed the experiential stuff to kinda sneak in around that and go, oh, we're talking about them, but we're actually talking about me. And it was a way to release what I was so unwilling to admit about myself that I could talk about about somebody else. And so that's when I realized that the experiential part was very good.

Mindy: 21:53

We have, a program that we've been involved with from the grassroots called Reaching Higher, which is all kind of not therapy, but just group work where you get people together to share, you know, life and and conversations about important topics, and and that was extremely impactful for me. Softened my heart to the point where it's like I could take a look at my life. You know, I wasn't so ashamed of everything that, you know, I could take a look at it. I had a very good mentor who is the instructor, and she just asked me. She goes, so how long do you want to be a victim of sexual abuse?

Mindy: 22:30

And I think I sat there and looked at her. I'm like, I don't have a choice. This happened to me. Therefore, I'm a victim. And it was an extremely powerful turning point in my life that she said, no.

Mindy: 22:44

You can choose to be something different. So choice is extremely powerful for me. I know when I'm choosing powerfully, and I can tell when I'm choosing unempowered. So that has been something that we've always tried to teach our kids.

Mickenzie Vought: 23:01

I love the culture that Mindy and Carl have established in their family of doing their own work. Throughout this conversation, they shared several ways that they intentionally pursue growth opportunities and encourage their family to do the same. One of those pursuits to wellness led Carl to Onsite

Mindy: 23:20

As soon as Carl went to Onsite I knew if he liked it, I was gonna have to go. Yeah. Just that's how it is. It's like, this is good for me. It's good for you, Mindy, and and you can do it.

Mindy: 23:29

And, honestly, at that point in time, I knew I needed something. I knew I had kinda stepped away from processing things. And Yeah. In like Carl says, we were in the doing stage of, you know, yeah. Yeah.

Mindy: 23:42

This is upsetting. This is I don't have time to be upset. I don't have time to talk about this. We gotta keep going. So our life finally slowed down a little bit.

Hannah Warren: 23:51

That's really beautiful context just to hear your your journey a little bit. Thank you for sharing and being willing to to share with us, which kinda leads us to, like, what led you to Onsite, Carl? Or was it a joint decision? Who found Onsite? What made the, yeah, what made the choice in starting that individually and then how that ripple affected to your family?

Carl: 24:12

So I was at a point where there were some things going sideways.

Mickenzie Vought: 24:21

Mhmm.

Carl: 24:22

I was stuck in this, what is going on? Part 1 and part 2 is it seems to be going in the wrong direction. Not that I've pooh poohed mental health, but I haven't been necessarily a victim of anything that I've heard about. So as the world often does, careful. I experienced for the first time ever some panic attacks, and I had no idea what they were.

Carl: 24:50

I didn't like them. I wanted to climb out of my skin. You know, I'm a 5th year person. I am a doer. I am self assured and confident.

Carl: 25:01

And panic attacks, by the way, were for other people. That's what happened to people that were weak or confused or or maladjusted, not to me of course. So that was going on. And there was there was a little panic of what I you know, I need to stop. I need to stop the world.

Carl: 25:24

I wanna get off, type of thing. And I had a very good friend who happened to be a pastor, who happened to proceed me to Onsite, who's a very good friend, trusted. And I think everybody has a couple people in their life where when a friend says something, regardless of your feeling about it, you just do what they say because they're batting a 1,000 and they've never led you wrong. So I said, okay. I'll go.

Carl: 25:50

And, again, I don't have the, oh, gosh. What is this thing? It's a, you know, Kumbaya. It's, you know, talk therapy thing. You know, I can write up all of the the things that I already knew that this isn't gonna help me much, but I said, okay.

Carl: 26:05

I'll go. And the experience itself was not, of course, what I expected, and I've had that also become true with anyone that's gone after us. They have a vision of what they think it's gonna be, and they come out and they say, what just happened? You just changed my life, and I I can't say enough. So Onsite is something hard to explain, but what personified it for me was I was leaving after getting a cup of coffee down from the mansion back to the room.

Carl: 26:37

Mhmm. And this is also not stereotypical of Carl, but for the first two days, I was either in tears or on the edge of tears. Now wait for it because people go, why? And my answer, Hannah, was, I have no idea. I actually can't explain what's coming up.

Carl: 26:59

It's not a thing. There wasn't a conversation. I don't think we'd even really kinda started, you know, the group cabin togetherness that we shared. So it was odd for me to be feeling at a very deep level that I'd never felt before. And that may be because I get accused by people in my life of being very performative.

Mickenzie Vought: 27:23

Mhmm.

Carl: 27:24

Very out there and brushed up and ready to help. And this was the first time where I didn't have to wear that label.

Mickenzie Vought: 27:31

Mhmm.

Carl: 27:32

I didn't have to be that person, and I think the real Carl kinda started to burst through Yeah. With a big exhalation of, okay. We're in the right spot. Just go with it. So that's what led me to Onsite and those were like figuratively and literally my first couple steps within the first several hours to the first day of I knew I was in a comfortable, peaceful, supported place where I didn't have to carry in and be what I usually am every single day that I get up.

Mickenzie Vought: 28:05

Hannah reflected on Karl's experience of finding the space and peace to cast off labels that he'd been clinging to for so long, and to show up for Carl. She remarked, what a gift and potentially a difficult experience it must have been for Carl. She asked him if he'd be willing to share how it felt to simply be Carl.

Carl: 28:31

Pretty foreign to enter that space and really foreign because it was kind of an uninvited experience. Meaning I I don't think I was really open for that. So it shocked me when it came about and I I think Hannah I'd have to say that life leading up to that was defenses and shields and armor, and I'm in control, and I didn't have any solitude that would have provided that. I I had little vignettes, whether that be in church or whether that be in a in nature, you know, sitting on a lake somewhere where you have this, oh, wow. You know, what what am I feeling?

Carl: 29:23

So it was very foreign to answer your question. And it's, I like to manufacture. Obviously, I'd like to manufacture things and doings and thoughts. And when that gets stripped away from you

Mickenzie Vought: 29:35

Yeah.

Carl: 29:36

It's a it's a comfortable scariness. Mhmm. You know, when you're when you're on campus at Onsite gosh, it's so hard to explain not to you guys because you know it, but perhaps to the listeners. Yeah. You you don't know what you don't know because you have to actually be there to experience it, and then once you experience it, you can't explain it.

Carl: 30:00

Yeah. It's so frustrating to try to share that that piece that you feel. And so now I'm trying to figure out, you know, as we reenter what Carlos calls the real world

Mickenzie Vought: 30:14

Mhmm. Mhmm.

Carl: 30:14

How to continue to access that. Yeah. How to how to find the time to go back to that time and space. And, boy, is it hard. I know intuitively I need to get out of my head and into my heart, but boy, there's talk about brick walls and barbed wire.

Carl: 30:34

It's continuing to to access that, which is why I returned for the second time for the experience, which is a deeper dive. It kinda was the second time around and it not only was a reminder but it kind of took you back to more practical things kind of a now what you know what are you gonna do with what you keep feeling?

Mickenzie Vought: 30:57

I love that after the profound experience Carl had doing a deep dive into his own family of origin, past traumas, and how they led him to the person that he is today at the Living Center program, he not only went home to tell everyone he knew about his experience, but then he went back for additional work at our alumni The experience. He dove into work to figure out what now. He wanted to know how to create and move toward the future he really wanted to live. I asked him if he'd briefly share what his biggest takeaways were from this program, as opposed to the living Centered Program.

Carl: 31:37

I can't believe to what extent I was, I wanna say, 59 years old where I sit with you today, man, I've I've pounded the heck out of this shell of a body and my mind and the stress levels. And Onsite helped me kinda put a meter on that to kinda get a reading of what it is that my body is telling me. And it's just flat down flat out scary to figure out what you're doing that you know what you're doing. But, again, you do not realize the cost. So now I'm in that stage of life where, and it was Miles in our first group that I think was experiencing other personal things that he said I had to begin to adopt.

Carl: 32:24

I want to help, I want to do this, I want to be a performer, I want to be a successful dad, successful at this, but not at the cost of me. I wrote it down. It's top of mind because I tend to do all sorts of things that are the cost of me.

Mickenzie Vought: 32:44

Yeah.

Carl: 32:44

And they're causing, lifelong ailments and taking away that, silence and solitude that I think I I am trying to lean towards. Mhmm. And it's really hard because I'm a giver and a fixer. At the cost of me is a big deal.

Mickenzie Vought: 33:01

I love that you had that that gift given to you. Like, you can still love without neglecting yourself. Mindy, what did it look like to be on the other side of him, and how did that inform your desire to go and do this work too?

Mindy: 33:15

When you know somebody as long as I've known, Carl, you know, they talk about how many different people you know. Yeah. And I have missed a per person of Carl, which is just fun loving, and he is the brunt of jokes. He will do anything to get you to laugh. But I like it the most when he's laughing, genuinely laughing, not laughing at himself and things like that.

Mindy: 33:40

So there was a lot that was going on, and it's hard to explain. And I'm not always what's in my head doesn't come out verbally very well. What he hasn't shared is that he has gone through 2 heart ablations. He has had multiple surgeries for Crohn's. Carl's goal in his life and one of the things that he has had to be very responsible for is his own life, keeping himself alive, which is also not dying.

Mindy: 34:13

So you can talk about life or death, and Carl tends to focus on the death. So there was a lot of what he was doing and focusing on, which was very good, but his focus was not dying. And I kept saying, I need to shift us to living. We are gonna die at some point in time, but he was so focused on not dying for me, for the kids, for our clients. You know, there was a lot that I was hoping for him when he went, but I just wanted him to choose life, to choose yes.

Mindy: 34:53

Everything was kinda no, no, no, no, no. And I I just wanted him to come back and choose life. He came back roaring into the house. He didn't realize that I was suffering from COVID, so I'm literally just trying to get my brain to to listen to him, but it was probably the best thing because I couldn't really communicate, so I got to listen to him. Yeah.

Mindy: 35:16

And he was so alive and so excited, and he was saying yes to everything, which I was like, okay. Slow down.

Hannah Warren: 35:27

Too many yeses.

Mickenzie Vought: 35:27

Let's do it

Mindy: 35:28

the wrong way. Everybody's going to Onsite I'm doing all the things that I said that I wanted to do, and I'm like, yes, I have Carl back, you know? Yeah. And he had a love for life.

Mindy: 35:41

When he's in his heart, he has a love for life. When he's in his head, we have the fear of dying and all the worst things happening.

Mickenzie Vought: 35:53

Obviously, Carl's experience impacted Mindy and was actually the catalyst and encouragement she needed to sign up for an Onsite program for herself.

Mindy: 36:03

I knew I needed to go. I knew that I hadn't been like I said, I hadn't been processing. I can tell when I'm not processing because I pull away from the people I love.

Mickenzie Vought: 36:13

Mhmm.

Mindy: 36:14

So I I went in knowing that, you know, I had been grieving, you know, just a lot of the changes that we had gone through and and grieving people who had left and died and and all that. And it was it was really interesting because I was sitting there, and and the group work is so stinking powerful. A lady, and it was funny, it was a lady who reminded me a lot of my daughter who just talked and had lots of just lots of things that kind of came in. I'm a little bit more straight and narrow. So I was like, oh, she's bringing this in all different places.

Mindy: 36:47

But she asked Carlos, she said, have you do you ever recommend that the the victim of abuse go back to the abuser and do work with that person? And Carlos said, not often. And my world exploded. I literally was in that cabin. I wanted to run.

Mindy: 37:14

I wanted out. I was doing the, what the hell is going on? But I had done work with my abuser, and it didn't go well. It it didn't go well. And, so when he said, I I don't advise it, I'm like, yeah.

Mindy: 37:32

And so then my psychodrama became the work of my abuser, and it was extremely powerful for me. Carlos was just great as far as just creating the safe space of, you know, doing that. So it's just it's so interesting. Like, you know, you think you know what you're dealing with and and you're not. It's something deeper and you can trust it.

Mindy: 37:58

And I think that that's where Carl kind of went in, and he felt so safe that he could go to that level. And that I was feeling so safe that I could go to that level. And, you know, I remember, you know, when I came back, Carl, you know, was so excited thinking that I was having this amazing time. And I kind of came back in and went, well and he goes, you didn't like it? I'm like, oh, no, no, no.

Mindy: 38:24

I liked it. I liked it, but it was different experience than yours.

Mickenzie Vought: 38:29

Yeah.

Hannah Warren: 38:30

I like that your experiences were really different and really impactful. Like, I think Yeah. That Onsite is whatever you need it to be and, also whatever you're willing to put into it. I think sometimes people will be curious about, like, you know, what they're gonna get out of it. But I think what you both did was you were willing really willing to really show up and really engage.

Hannah Warren: 38:57

And you've got all different things. I think so often in even, like, weekly therapy and things like that, we are processing through what I need, but I'm also processing through what my partner needs and what my family needs. And you are just having to embody healing for everybody, I think. And I think the gift of Onsite is you're really embodying what you need for those 5 days. And then, like you said, how do you, like, incorporate that afterwards?

Hannah Warren: 39:25

Like, Carl, that you've said, like, I'm trying to find that space and that stillness. So I'm trying to protect whatever tapping into those experiences that you had there. But I love how different they are because it just gives permission, but, like, it's not gonna look the same for everybody. And that is, like, you're it is what you need, not what somebody else's somebody else needs in their healing.

Mickenzie Vought: 39:45

And you didn't do it wrong. I think I've heard that. Yeah. Someone comes back and has a different experience. Like, why did Onsite wrong?

Mickenzie Vought: 39:50

And I'm like, no. You did it exactly how you were supposed to show up in the room. Who is supposed to be there? What was supposed to happen happened. I'm really excited that we get to continue this conversation by bringing in Sydney and Brandon because I just think there's so much beauty in this, and I'm fascinated to hear more about it, and to connect more with you.

Carl: 40:10

You know, I can't I can't say enough about it. But, like you say, we can end end for today. I just really appreciate the the opportunity to be with you guys and to share about Onsite because as I've said we're our plan is to to send anybody and everybody that wants to go you know, within our family and friends, because I can't think of a better gift and a better reality to send them on, not just the break, but what it may open up them in their lives.

Mickenzie Vought: 40:38

Hey, friends. I hope that you love Mindy and Carl as much as we did. It was now time to talk with Sydney, Carl's daughter, and her husband, Brandon, who have now visited Onsite because of Mindy and Carl. Hannah and I loved this conversation, and I asked them to start the same way we did with Mindy and Carl, by introducing one another. Here's how it started off our conversation.

Brandon: 41:06

Sydney is first and foremost a mom, to a new little girl we've welcomed to the family. And, she's an amazing wife, an amazing mom, and she's a dog mom. That's high on the list as well. We've got a golden retriever, but I would say most importantly, you know, she's one of the most caring people you'll ever meet. You know, her friends would all say the same thing and you know, she makes everybody feel that love around her with everything she does.

Brandon: 41:31

She's one of the most thoughtful people I've ever met.

Mickenzie Vought: 41:34

So sweet.

Sydney: 41:36

Thanks for that, Brandon. Okay. So Brandon, husband, father, professional do gooder. He puts himself a lot into, like, the community and different causes. He's always rooting for the underdog.

Sydney: 41:50

And I think that comes a little bit from his backstory and just who he is as a person. He is super dedicated, and I'd say that he's selectively an unconditional lover. So if you are close with Brandon, he'll go above and beyond for you. But he doesn't really, the ins and outs of the day or, kind of the small details when it comes to personal relationships or small relationships. That's us.

Sydney: 42:14

That kinda goes to the wayside for him. What else about Brandon? Brandon's a great father recently.

Mickenzie Vought: 42:19

Mhmm.

Sydney: 42:20

Dog dad as well. And it's just a a privilege. Anybody who gets close with Brandon, I would say it's a privilege to have him in your life, and I think they all feel the same same way. So that's Brandon for you.

Mickenzie Vought: 42:31

I love it. What I was struck by is kinda you were talking about his, intimate relationships and that he goes really deep. And I wonder if that is something that, you resonate with as well or if you are more like a mile wide type of person and he's, like, here are my core people. I just wonder what that's looked like in your relationship. Are you similar or different?

Sydney: 42:55

We're similar in some ways. I'd say that the our intimate relationships, we keep very close, and it's they have extremely high value, especially not having family nearby, in Nashville. Like, I'm up in Metro Detroit right now visiting my family, and those intimate relationships we have are super deep. However, Brandon actually has a lot more relationships than I do. I tend to keep more to myself and keep my circle a little bit small, but I'm happy to have a conversation with anybody.

Sydney: 43:20

So it does work well. Mhmm.

Mickenzie Vought: 43:22

Yeah. And you guys mentioned, a new baby. So what is kind of a glimpse of the season that we find you in right now?

Brandon: 43:29

Learning.

Mickenzie Vought: 43:30

Learning. I love it. Yes.

Brandon: 43:32

I I think relearning a a lot of things and, you know, not just about parenthood but, kinda relearning our relationship and how to keep each other first and keep ourselves first. You know, it's a big transition, you know, and there's nothing that prepares you for that, so I'd say we're enjoying it, we're going, you know, day by, it's one of those things where it's day by day, but it's been a ton of fun. It's been really neat to watch, specifically, you know, watch Sydney be a mom and be a great mom, you know, and go above and beyond what I ever imagined. I tell try to tell her all the time, you know, how impressed I am by that. Yeah.

Brandon: 44:13

You know, she's definitely has more of those innate early on abilities than I do. I'm learnin', tryin' to help as much as I can. But at the end of the day, there's something special about, motherhood. Sydney's fallen right in line with it and crushing it.

Sydney: 44:26

I'd say too, this phase of life for us, I'd say the overarching theme would be communication. And we've always been, from my bias perspective, great communicators, and not afraid to have those conversations. However, adding a child to the mix, it's the little things that can really create a tiff. And so there's been a lot of how can we do better and over communication about the details of day to day life.

Mickenzie Vought: 44:56

Sydney and Brandon shared that they've been together almost 7 years. And in that time, they have had several different seasons, and learned to love different versions of one another. As they'll share a little more in this interview, before Onsite, they would not have said anything was quote unquote wrong with their relationship, but as a result of their individual work and the work within their larger family system, their relationships feel deeper and more intentional. Sydney went first and led the way for Brandon to follow suit.

Sydney: 45:29

So it was perfect timing. You'd say, oh, okay. Sydney's, at this point, 3 months pregnant, and father Carl comes in and says, this is an investment that I think we need to make as a family. It's really changed my life. And, like, well, I'm kind of on a timeline here.

Sydney: 45:46

And after that, how will that really look or work? And so I went to Onsite in December, headed into my 3rd trimester. Wasn't sure if there was really ever a perfect time, but with bringing that being so career focused in our in very independent lifestyles, Things had kinda slowed down a little bit, and it just made sense. So I went in December, came back, and, you know, wanted to keep my lips a little bit tight about my experience. Mhmm.

Sydney: 46:12

Because Brandon was gonna be going so he actually he didn't have it planned yet, but after I came back, he then got on the books because he could see the change in me and some of the kind of stories that I uncovered that I had believed about my life and trauma and whatnot. And he's like, I should probably go too, and so he went in January a month later.

Mickenzie Vought: 46:33

And then Palmer was born in March?

Sydney: 46:35

And then Palmer was born in March, and it could have been better timing because there's a lot of growth, and it wasn't great timing with some of the conversations we had to have were not easy by any means. I think it just set us up to be stronger and start from a much cleaner slate with Palmer being here.

Brandon: 46:51

Yeah. And then from my standpoint, certainly, Sydney, you know, was a big driver in that. But, specifically, Carl and I have a really neat, I'd say, relationship, you know, father-in-law, son-in-law. Really look up to him, value his opinion. So when he, hearing kinda his feedback and output, in my seat from someone who prior to Onsite had never done any work, So hearing some of these things and hearing some different vernacular from both Sydney and Carl, know, I was just kinda like, hey, I'll go.

Brandon: 47:25

Like, sign me up. Like, if 2 of 2 of the most important people in my life are, like, giving positive feedback Yeah. You know, sign me up. Like Sydney said, like, just unbelievable timing. Mhmm.

Brandon: 47:38

Optimal timing. You know, things, life gets busy, things get harder, you add more variables in the mix. I'm a believer in my faith and I really do think like that timing was perfect timing. And I don't, you know, know that earlier would have been better or later would have been better. So I

Mickenzie Vought: 47:59

think perfect.

Brandon: 48:00

Really was perfect timing, for both of us.

Sydney: 48:04

Let me chime in on that too. I just need to share from, like, a personal level. I was so scared y'all with Brandon Moore knowing that he's been doing any kind of therapy or gone to any sort of retreat in his life. And Carl and Mindy have always invested in that for Yeah. Like, for myself growing up.

Sydney: 48:21

So I was like, what what type of creature am I gonna receive back from Onsite? And just the change was profound. So it's great.

Mickenzie Vought: 48:28

That was gonna be one of my questions. It was like, what is your what was your schema before going into Onsite of mental health of therapy? Like, what was your stories around that and experience because that I think is to just lean in with so much trust. Like, oh, okay. The people in my life really believe in this.

Mickenzie Vought: 48:45

I'm gonna do it. But also, this is super scary. So you're saying you hadn't done anything like that, Brandon?

Brandon: 48:52

Never I mean, no. Not outside of I've been I'd started to get a little exposed more over the past probably year or 2.

Mickenzie Vought: 49:00

Mhmm.

Brandon: 49:00

Just on a very kinda high level with a men's group that I'm plugged in with. And we're very open with each other. We kinda know each other's stories. You know, and that's kind of a faith based group that we meet every week and, you know, 3 year commitments. Like, we're a tight knit group.

Brandon: 49:17

But at the same time, you know, you just don't have the opportunity to do the deep work that you can at Onsite and with other, you know, avenues. So I certainly had no idea, like, of this entire world. You know, I had no idea what to expect. Literally had zero expectation. You know, people always, like, what what is it what you thought it was?

Brandon: 49:40

I'm, like, I didn't know what to expect.

Mickenzie Vought: 49:42

You said your communication's been really good before, but what were those first couple of weeks between, like, Sydney coming home and then Brandon coming home, where I would make up maybe you she's coming in with some different tools. She's coming in with some different awareness. What did that season look like? And then what did it look like after Brandon went and you kind of maybe had some shared language and had this shared experience to bond around, to set up some of those conversations. Will you kinda walk us through what those two snapshots of time looked like?

Sydney: 50:14

Before I left for Onsite we're in very busy seasons of our lives. Things are slowing down for me in some ways just because I was pregnant, and I was I'm pretty heavily involved in the fitness community, so that was slowing down a little bit. And and we were really great as far as our relationship went. But when I got back, there are some things that I learned about myself there in that had to do with communication styles. And so I turned 30, closer to Christmas, and Brandon and I went down to Southall for a day.

Sydney: 50:43

He surprised me. And it was the first time. It had been probably 2 weeks since I had get been back on from Onsite and I shared with him what I had learned and what I needed to work on. And so something that I had always struggled with but was feeling misunderstood. And with that, and our team leader really was able to, like, walk me through this.

Sydney: 51:05

I'm really open with everyone in my life when it comes to positive things. As Brandon said, I'm not the most serious person. And what kind of came out at Onsite was that I've always felt misunderstood when peep because people cross my boundaries. And I don't understand that. And because I'm so open, I feel as though I should understand where those lines are.

Sydney: 51:25

And then when they're crossed, I never say anything. And so it all kinda came out that I need to get better expressing negative emotions when something doesn't feel right. So when we got to, the 30th my 30th birthday celebration, Brandon and I were sitting down at the bar. It was like, this is a great over a mocktail and a cocktail conversation to have that and I got a little upset, which never happens, that I need to start expressing to you and to everyone in my life at least once a week is what we decided I was gonna start with, whether it's on the spot or 3 days later, negative feelings that I have, whether they're big or something small and trivial. At first, there was a lot of anxiety around those conversations, and now I still may take a day to address these negative feelings that I have.

Sydney: 52:14

However, I've gotten better at it, and I think it's really transformed how I feel about Brandon and also the people in our lives because they understand what boundaries are. Would you say, Brandon, that I've gotten better at expressing my negative emotions?

Brandon: 52:28

Yes. So I I think that's one, you know, one distinct thing, obviously, like we talked about. I will say one thing I think, you know, Sydney and I both tried to do was spend time processing. You know, she mentioned, like, back for 2 weeks before, you know, really sharing anything at all with me and, even more so, you know, she kinda because she knew I was scheduled at that point to go to Onsite. You know, we decided basically, like, hey, like, let's just decide not to really, like, open up until we're both back processed.

Mickenzie Vought: 53:04

Yeah.

Brandon: 53:05

And then let's go in together. So, from a communication standpoint though, I I will say, you know, the biggest takeaway, yes, that piece with Sydney. I'd say post for me, you know, I I am someone who is open book. You'll you'll know where you stand with me, you know, I'm very much like, let's have a deep conversation. You know, I'll someone that, you know, wants to talk, I'm like, hey, let's talk and let's be real.

Brandon: 53:34

I'm not very surface level, like, really with anybody. So that for me, you know, Sydney's always kinda felt like, I always always wanna talk, like, so deep all the time. You know? And, I'm very, I'd say, emotional of expressing, you know, positive name things. But one thing I'd say has changed post for me in Sydney is like more understanding how much individual communication's important.

Brandon: 54:01

You know, and not so much focused on, I don't think we lived in that space a ton previously and really checking in on each other. Mhmm. And just saying like, hey, how are you doing? It would always be, you know, how are we doing? Yeah.

Brandon: 54:15

And me personally, like, I never checked in personally. I didn't know that was a thing.

Mickenzie Vought: 54:20

With yourself.

Brandon: 54:21

Exactly. So that is learning how to communicate like, here's where I'm at, here's what I'm thinking, here's what I'm feeling, like here's what's going on in my brain and heart was dialogue that Sydney and I never really engaged in. I wouldn't say prior to, or if we did, it was always on the mindset of about our relationship. And, you know, good, bad, and different, you know, I think that has enabled us to, good, bad, and different previously, has enabled us to start building a better foundation individually together.

Hannah Warren: 55:00

I think a lot of us might consider like, oh, I'm a good communicator, but then when it comes to our internal communication, I'm totally cut off. We just don't know about it. And so I think that's such a beautiful distinction, and I'm really inspired by both of y'all kind of coming up with actual practices that, like, initiate change because I think a lot of people wanna change or change their communication or change whatever, and I think change doesn't happen without some intention. And I think, Sydney, I'm you've been so inspired that you would, like, kinda force yourself to sit with some emotions that are a little bit more uncomfortable with you and even giving yourself the internal boundary. I think so often we look to others for our boundaries, and I think you setting the internal boundary.

Hannah Warren: 55:38

If I'm gonna tell somebody, I'm gonna say it out loud, right away or within 3 days. Like, I think that's a really powerful tool, yeah, that I think leads to really big change. And I I imagine and I know you're only a couple months into it, but I imagine that will begin to happen more naturally without you having to think about, like, okay. Now I'm gonna focus on what bad emotion I have. You know?

Hannah Warren: 55:58

It's like you begin to just notice. And Onsite, we often say that there's, like, no good or bad emotions. It's just, it's all information. It's all trying to tell us something. And so even those emotions that we're really uncomfortable with or that feel foreign to us, like, they begin to feel a little bit more familiar and just begin to tell you a little bit more.

Hannah Warren: 56:16

So you can actually check-in with yourself and communicate more internally. So I love that. So practical.

Mickenzie Vought: 56:23

Hannah and I were inspired throughout this conversation of Brandon and Sydney's willingness to lean into this work when things were going well on the surface of their relationship. We often talk about the impact of preemptive work that can really help us optimize our lives and our relationships. Hannah affirmed that the impact that this decision to improve their relationship and get curious about themselves and each other was going to have on their new daughter, Palmer, and all the generations that would follow.

Sydney: 56:55

Carl kind of instilled this opportunity on us. I think the tools that and the relationship we're gonna have is going to be so healthy for Palmer. Like, Brandon and I sat down it's like a week ago now and We're discussing his personal and professional 1 3 5 and 10 year goal And we found so much value in Mhmm. The tools and kind

Mindy: 57:20

of the people that we

Sydney: 57:21

came out of and are still evolving into post Onsite that 5 years, like, we're no matter how great we feel or how horrible we feel in 5 years, we've gotta go back and do the couples. Like, that's a mandatory on our list. Mhmm. Cool. That doesn't matter how busy the season of life is.

Sydney: 57:38

Like, we have to go. Mhmm.

Brandon: 57:39

And, Hannah, one thing to your point, it's it's funny. Right? Because, you know, I work with a handful of folks that, you know, are very near and dear to me and other people in my life, friends, etcetera. And, you know, certainly after Sydney went and then, you know, we started telling I started telling people I was going you get some you know, you get people kinda, Hey, is everything going all right? You know, and, you know, I think something that's really important about things like this is for me, going without much knowledge, not waiting until you're kinda on the verge of something or you, Hey, I need to go now, or, Hey, I gotta get there within a week to do some things like this.

Brandon: 58:20

And I would just encourage, to your point, I've encouraged multiple people now and other friends in my life, some that have gone now. Like, hey. This is when things are going good. It's like the best time you can check out something like this or get interested. Like, when things are well, like you can probably do some of your, like the best work.

Brandon: 58:43

Yeah. So that is one thing, Hannah, that I I do think is really important. I I think it's great for people to hear that. Is that work like Onsite and other thing, it's not for, you know, just people that things are going on or

Brandon: 59:00

negative things are happening. It's for folks when things are even going well and, you know, to your point, yeah, not everything's perfect, but Sydney and I didn't have things blowing up in our life at the time, but we both saw the value in it.

Brandon: 59:14

And I think that's because we had someone to speak into us and encourage us on that. And I do think that is a big piece of our story is like, we both went into it with a positive mindset.

Mickenzie Vought: 59:26

Mhmm. Yeah.

Brandon: 59:27

And it allowed us to do, you know, some significant positive work as part of the process.

Mickenzie Vought: 59:38

As Sydney and Brandon reflected on the impact of Onsite on their relationship, we asked them to share a little bit about how this has impacted their relationship with their larger family.

Sydney: 59:49

When father Carl got back from Onsite, he's always a self improvement guru. What can I do to be the best version of Carl as possible? That man sometimes needs to chill, honestly, love improvement wise. But when we came back from Onsite, there was, like, palpable change in him and not necessarily in something that's measurable, but in the way that he kind of, like, believes in the world and, like, the way that everyone in our family has a lot of different energies and a lot of different personalities kind of come together. And that's really what sparked my interest in just an easy okay to go to Onsite.

Sydney: 01:00:27

But I'll say father Carl and I haven't always had the best relationship, and he would share this as well. And there is probably 5 or 6 years there where every time that we spoke, it was very task oriented. There was no how are you doing, how are you feeling, how is our relationship, and we've grown a lot since that even before Onsite. But the types of conversations earlier today, even though I just had a baby, I went to the gym just to walk on the treadmill with him, and I like windshield time with parents and loved ones because there's no distractions of phones, just like an outside, which I something that I love so much. And the types of conversations that we can have now, we went in-depth about a family friend that we have and then also what we're working on now over a 20 minute drive to the gym at 7 AM, and that's not something that we've ever had before.

Sydney: 01:01:21

So I just feel a lot more connected, but Brandon might have a different, outlook with, you know, father-in-law relationship.

Brandon: 01:01:29

So Sydney hits on some great points, but I I do think it just opens up a world that would likely be untapped unless someone goes through something like this. You know, I will say, you know, specifically since knowing Sydney, you know, I do think that, you know, Carl and Mindy specifically are extremely intentional, you know, about, their time spent with people and conversations with people and, you know, I've always tried to do the same on a personal level, but when you go through work like this and everyone knows, hey, like you've done something similar, it just gives you an opportunity to have deep discussions. I think so many times we get caught up on those surface level conversations and we don't have the opportunity to go deep with people in our life because we're afraid of what they're gonna think or afraid of if they're gonna understand where you're coming from or things like that. So it just, it creates a level there of connection, that I'm extremely grateful for. You know, and I don't know, it'd be a wild world if everybody had experienced something like this.

Brandon: 01:02:34

Who knows what water cooler conversations would look like, but, you know, that for me, the platform that it's created, kind of, for us and then a handful of others in the family has been amazing.

Mickenzie Vought: 01:02:49

As we were finishing this conversation, I wanted to briefly explore something that Brandon had mentioned earlier in the episode. He shared how much of their relationship had been based on caring for the relationship between the 2 of them, while neglecting what was going on in his own internal world. I think this is a struggle for many of us. I know for me, a huge learning in the last few years has been getting healthy for me so that I can show up for every other person on my list and including myself on the list of people that I have and get to care for. Talking briefly with Brandon before this interview, he shared an experiential exercise from his time at Onsite that was profoundly impactful for him.

Mickenzie Vought: 01:03:37

The exercise using hula hoops helps to visually represent and explore boundaries and codependency within our relationships. By placing hula hoops in 3 overlapping circles, you can see the space that is yours to own, the other person's, and the middle space that represents your relationship. For me, this helped demonstrate the importance of important. I asked Cindy and Brandon to talk a little bit about why this concept was so impactful for them.

Brandon: 01:04:14

So if you think about that in your own hula hoop and you're standing kinda in your corner, if you will, in your circle before you're, you know, in that middle and giving yourself to other things, other people, other organizations. You know, if you're not, you don't have a positive experience alone, how can you, to your point, Mackenzie, how can you show up great for other people? So, for me, you know, I just had gone through 30 years of life, you know, so focused on that middle area and majority of people in my life would say like, Brandon's crushing it. But behind the scenes and quietly, and Hannah, that inner voice, you start having conversations with yourself that are, you know, just not the best. So, for me, learning more about what that looks like for myself, been extremely impactful.

Brandon: 01:05:13

But, Mackenzie, to your point, understanding, like, Sydney has her own hula hoop as well, and other people in life have their own hula hoop, so how do you respect that? So for our relationship specifically, I'd say that's kinda the biggest, 1 A for myself, but 1 B would really be, you know, trying to respect Sydney more in her personal relationship. And whether that's personal her time or getting away or, hey, I want this for dinner, that like, just little things, but then, you know, she's obviously given some examples of big things. But just respecting that personal space more for her was something that I had never thought about. Just the reality is is I always thought about us together.

Brandon: 01:06:02

And if Yeah. Everything's not going so good here, like, it's all fallin' apart. Whereas the reality is is we've both gotta be extremely healthy in our own circles to be able to be best together.

Sydney: 01:06:17

My understanding of the way that we both interpreted the hula hoops and where our viewpoint on how we handle, like, codependency is very different. As Brandon just said, if he feels like I'm shutting down, he's gonna step over more into my hula hoop and try to fill that relationship. Whereas what I learned about myself, and I was actually the demonstrate demonstration person, and it was really, really real being up there. I stood up there in our group leaders. Like, he just keeps coming in and saying, pushing into my circle, and then he starts stepping back.

Sydney: 01:06:52

He's like, do you want to come and kind of nurture this relationship? I was like, no. I I don't know what it is, but I just want to sit down, And that is really prevalent in my life and kind of what Brenna's talking about, respecting those boundaries. I'm not as social of a creature. And when I'm not my best self, I shut down.

Sydney: 01:07:08

I shut the world out, and I just wanna sit in my circle alone. And I don't want anyone in my circle. And it's really hard, and it's probably been a point of contention for Brandon and I where when he feels me shut down, he wants to come in and, like, save me almost and fill that relationship when really I just need to focus on myself. But and because I am that way, you know, when Brandon and I, I don't even know if we spoke about this. So when he came back and said, Sydney, I've never really thought about myself before.

Mickenzie Vought: 01:07:38

Mhmm.

Sydney: 01:07:38

And there is, like, pieces inside of me that shattered because I really am intentional with how I feel and just, like, intrinsically and very attuned with how I feel, and I'm a big advocate for mental health. And so when Brandon shared that with me, it took me a couple days to wrap my mind around, how has this man never even thought about himself? Yeah. So the change that I've gotten to see Brandon actually take care of himself even the last 7 months has really started to impact, you know, his, like, outer circles from his inner work. And that's been good to see him not working from an empty self.

Hannah Warren: 01:08:18

Yeah.

Mickenzie Vought: 01:08:18

That's so beautiful.

Hannah Warren: 01:08:19

I think that's massive and, like, so relatable, both sides of it. I can think of so many of my relationships where I've I've filled either or. I have a I have a tendency to also be a little bit more like Brandon about, like, oh, you're not doing well. Let me save that. Like, I'll fully hop into your hula hoop, and I'm also good in the middle one, but forget about mine.

Hannah Warren: 01:08:38

And but I've been in both of those spots, and I think the just awareness of, like, what am I doing? What am I trying to do? And then also, ultimately, I think it's so valuable that you both can have this type of awareness and language because, ultimately, it's, you know, Brandon's job to be in his and Sydney's job to be in hers, you know, and that us trying to jump hula hoops isn't helping anybody.

Mickenzie Vought: 01:09:05

The last thing we wanted to talk with Sydney and Brandon about was how they saw this work impacting and rippling into the future of their family and their children.

Brandon: 01:09:15

Completely, Mackenzie.

Mickenzie Vought: 01:09:16

Yeah. Yeah. Just a little bit.

Brandon: 01:09:17

These are Yeah. I mean, you know, from my seat, there was no dialogue really around some of these things, at least in a healthy way Yeah. You know, growing up. So, my, I think, goal and what Sydney and I's goal, you know, would be to create, you know, as healthy as an environment, you know, and I think for a big piece of that's modeling what a healthy self and a healthy marriage looks like. Yeah.

Brandon: 01:09:44

So I think first and foremost, you know, Sydney and I always say something is like, you know, we've got it written on our fridge. It's you, we, then the baby. And someone may hear that and be like, oh, I disagree with that but the reality is Sydney and I believe that that's like the best equation for a healthy life for our family is that individually, just like we talked about, we're both extremely healthy and then that way we can be healthy, then that way we can model a healthy relationship and parenthood to Palmer and hopefully future kids. So I do think that's kind of the cornerstone of it, but I think my goal, you know, for, that relationship with Palmer as 8 Crows is really just allowing her to understand that she can have emotion, you know, and that she can feel emotion and that she can share those things, you know, and especially with Sydney and I. So, I think that'll be you know, a learning, again, a very big learning experience, but I would say that's probably my number one, just kind of off the hip, what comes to mind of what this work and what some of the things Sydney and I are doing that I want to see happen, you know, as a parent to Palmer and, you know, future kids.

Sydney: 01:11:07

Onsite's gonna impact our family like a stone in the water. It's gonna have many ripples that are just gonna continue to grow larger from the inside out. And we both, as we as we mentioned, come from broken families in different ways that don't think it was always the healthiest environment where there was space or time, really, to express ourselves. And so while we were growing up and so what where I hope this leads with our family and her daughter, Palmer, is that, like, a dream would be to have Brandon and I in such individual great places in a relationship demonstrating such strong communication skills that she has the space to, you know, not cope cope with trauma on her own. And we can work through things, and there's space for her to express those emotions and us to have those conversations without the other noise of things that are going on with Brandon and I kind of too loud in the room for her voice to be heard or for her to be thinking how she feels rather than thinking about others.

Sydney: 01:12:13

I'll also say too for our family and thinking about Palmer, I also want there to be that opportunity that just kind of like Carl and Mindy have given to us with of tools out there. Hey. If you wanna go to Onsite, if you want therapy, if you want to do pottery therapy, something experiential, that we're here to support it. And that just because we're mom and dad doesn't mean that we're full perfect humans. We're always growing and changing, and that it's okay for her to grow and change.

Sydney: 01:12:44

I think it's where I see this going for us. Something we haven't spoken about too is just we are very family oriented. Like, my siblings are my best friends, and they now become Brandon's best friends. And his sister is one of my closest friends now as well. So it's it's also partly why I would say I don't need I don't need more friends or a bigger circle, just because I have you know, I feel fulfilled in my intimate relationships.

Sydney: 01:13:08

But Yeah. If the girl Mindy has given us individually and as a couple of kind of influencing us to go to Onsite doesn't just stop there. Like, the fact that Palmer is gonna be your own aunts and uncles, we've got sisters and brothers in laws who have also gone to Onsite Yeah. And they'll be playing that role in Palmer's life and to know that they've worked on themselves and that Palmer's gonna have these role models that have worked through and in a healthy way can express themselves.

Sydney: 01:13:38

Mhmm. It's just you know, it takes a village, they always say. We're just starting, and I already understand that as I'm here in Detroit and the parents are helping me with Palmer right now. But it's it's gonna be truly a gift to have Palmer raised by all these individuals in our lives that are working on themselves.

Mickenzie Vought: 01:13:56

Thanks for listening to the Living Centered podcast. If you're enjoying the show, we'd love for you to consider leaving us a review or rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever else you listen. It only takes a few seconds to navigate to the show in your app and select the stars to begin your rating. It helps more people find the show, and we really appreciate it. Thanks so much.