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This is a show for status quo busters inside enterprises who are ready to make change happen. We: ask people who have transformed big businesses how they’ve done it through three lenses: technology, mindset, and strategy. You: get the roadmap to creating change inside your own enterprise.
Jasmin: Damir Dimitrovici transformed the technology stack at mobility app FREE NOW in just five months. But while he was doing that, he was also introducing agile to a part of the business. Today, find out what he learned leading this transformation and what he wishes he'd done differently. I love this open and honest discussion about watchouts to bear in mind while moving quickly. Plus, I learned what an MLP is and why it's especially useful for marketing teams. I'm Jasmine Guthmann. You're listening to People Changing Enterprises. Please enjoy this episode with Damir Dimitrovici, Senior Website [00:01:00] Manager at FREE NOW.
Jasmin: Aside from leading the technical transformation inside FREE NOW, how are you helping the business to be better at changing?
Damir: So we do have areas of the business that are running kind of more traditional ways, but with the website, trying to get her up and running and modern technology had to think about, okay, how do I help with this modern approach into an area of the business that runs kind of more like waterfall traditional ways?
The very first thing was just trying to be as transparent as possible. And I think as you go through the process, so everyone says that Northern Star when it comes to like strategy, but it's the same with a hundred percent clear on what we wanted to achieve with the new website and when we wanted to achieve it as well.
With agile, it's also important to run the cadence. We set up fortnightly check ins, which set up multiple ways to communicate. Because it's all about collaboration. [00:02:00] I knew I have the right teammates around me. Then you can just move forward together. Obviously we were able to have a positive outcome. So I think it was just really like becoming a close group in a way. Like I wouldn't say trust. Yeah, sure, trusted each other, but really like respected in a way. Like there has to be some level of respect that's never broken. And then, yeah, we just all were like confident in what we were achieving.
Jasmin: Did you have a lot of convincing to do?
Damir: Convincing is not the right word. I think what's important is when you hit a point where things are getting questioned, it's, you know, the why, you know, the why and you know the answer, and then you can move on.
And I think that in a way, maybe just again, creates confidence and that trust. I was lucky actually to come into a situation where I was surrounded by people who were very supportive of the outcome. I was the lucky one to be leading the project, let's say, but I think around me was people who as well wanted [00:03:00] to take it there as well, so I think that really, I was blessed there in a way.
Jasmin: You're so humble. You say you're blessed. I think it should be a prerequisite, right? Everybody's life would be so much easier if we had clear goals all the time. And if we all agreed on where we wanted to go. But I understand your notion now of trust versus respect because trust to me is something that you takes time, which is if you only have five months from start to finish, not happening in that quick turnaround of time.
But if you're 100 percent clear on the goal and everybody respects the goal and is on board with where we're trying to go. That is such a beautiful, natural alignment right there. I think a great example of how you're helping the company change or be more comfortable with change is how you explained agile to the businesses’ non-technical folks.
Can you share more about how you did that?
Damir: I don't [00:04:00] say I did an explicit way. It was a little more in the process. So I really wanted to set up the MLP, which we called it. So I think that was the best way to deliver a project on time. It wasn't explicitly like calling out, we're doing these agile things or something, but just highlighting that we're doing an MLP.
These are the things that will be in scope for the MLP, and it's just like kind of going through that process. I wish I was a little more explicit at times, but live and learn.
Jasmin: Hey, hindsight is such a beautiful thing. Now, I have to admit, I am very familiar with the MVP, minimum viable product. I do not know what an MLP is. Help me understand.
Damir: Yeah, MLP. So minimum lovable product. I didn't coin this term. So it has to be an MVP, but sometimes with an MVP, you can compromise on certain things.
So you want to get something out as quickly to the end user as possible. That's the goal. You can kind of compromise [00:05:00] maybe on some, the way a feature looks or behaves. Unfortunately, with the new website, we couldn't really compromise on how it looks. So we had to actually focus still on that, but try and deliver the whole new platform as an MLP.
Jasmin: I love it. Minimum lovable product. And yeah, if it's the home of your brand, the website is considered the home of your brand, your brand new brand. You cannot make it look like the ugly duckling that is out of the question. So that's, oh, love it. That's definitely has to go into my dictionary, MLP, minimum lovable product.
Damir: In the marketing space, if we just tried to deliver an MVP, you know, I think that really wouldn't have worked out. So like you said, it had to really be something that also was marketable. So it was good. The user experience was there from a technology point of view. It was mobile friendly on mobile first, that just kind of helped bring people along the journey and bring them more excited to it [00:06:00] because kind of knew at the end, once we translated the brand guidelines into the new website design system that people will be able to feel and touch. It's not going to be like another iteration there. This is like what's final for a while. That was kind of what helped drive that MLP because it looks great.
Jasmin: What have you learned about creating change inside this business?
Damir: Documenting things just because something is discussed doesn't mean it'll be remembered in three months and exactly how you discussed it.
So documenting things as much as possible. Another good thing is keeping a decision log. I wish I had done it. It's a little more like just quicker entries, right? So this decision was made when I think that. In a project that's in a running months and months and months. I think something like that will be invaluable.
And with the unknown, like don't underestimate others who are not used to working this way and agile, just be mindful of it, basically, that if I'm not used to it, there's a level of unknown that you might [00:07:00] be used to, but others are not. Another thing actually that came up was the roles and responsibilities.
When you're running a big project, again, in the very beginning, you're going to say, these are the individuals who, you know, core project group. At that point, it's crystal clear. These are the roles and the responsibilities in each of the domains. Don't just do it at the beginning of the project and forget about it, because things change and a new responsibility come up, and it could be a bit of a gray area about who handles what.
I'm not sure how you do it. This is just the learning for me. It's like, make sure that it's constantly updated on people's radar, KPIs are everywhere and very important. I think a lesson to be learned is if you don't set your KPIs, others might do it for you or others might run a different KPI and then you have to react basically from a product manager point of view as well.
They're seen as like mini CEOs. I mean, I'm not saying I am a CEO, just large organization trying my best to manage the main website. There's all this pressure to have all the answers all the time. [00:08:00] In a really practical way, sometimes you don't have the answers like when I came into FREE NOW, I didn't have all the answers, but have confidence you have a positive outcome you want to achieve and just lean on that and then find a way to work on that together and move forward.
Jasmin: That is beautiful advice for anyone that is in the product space, I think, especially if you're in a lead role and you're you are constantly under pressure. And that's not just on you. You can actually do that together in that way, build the respect and the trust with your team that yes, you may not have all the answers, but you will find them together with the team, which is so much stronger than someone who would tell everybody else what to do.
Damir: When you're in a large organization, just be aware of that. Like if you're trying to make a big change in a big organization, even if it's a technology-first company, there'll be areas that don't operate the way you do.
So just realizing that is great and then you lean on those like [00:09:00] relationship skills to do it. Another interesting fact is that you can also find a company has their own culture, right? But within there could be subcultures as well. So I think that's something to be aware of and really helpful when you're trying to lead change through a big organization.
But yeah, at the end, like was always leaning on foundational things that I built and learned over my career because there will be challenges in large organizations trying to push something through, whether it's like a new website or a new process or whatever it may be. Dealing with so many different ways of working, just basically lean on foundational stuff, balance things out, right?
And as long as you have like a positive kind of attitude and you want to push positive change through without causing too much harm in a way, you know what I mean? I think you'll be fine.
Jasmin: Thanks for listening to People Changing Enterprises. This show is brought to you by Contentstack, the leading composable digital experience platform [00:10:00] for enterprises.
Got a question or suggestion? Email us at podcast@contentstack.com. If you like the show, please leave us a rating or review on Apple podcasts. We'll be back next week with a new episode, helping you make your mark.