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The Psychedelic Psychologist is a conversational-style podcast hosted by Dr. Ryan Westrum with clients and guests who use talk therapy to integrate Psychedelic experiences for healing and personal transformation. Tune in to hear people’s experiences, breakthroughs and stories of healing addiction, depression, and trauma through Psychedelics. Dr. Ryan Westrum gracefully and empathetically narrates real therapy sessions with people in their most vulnerable and transformational moments.
I would like to invite
you to take a moment,
a moment to laugh,
a moment to center, and
a moment to breathe.
Taking this opportunity to recognize
the magnitude of this moment.
and yet also the levity, the ease,
breathing in
and breathing out, finding deep grounding
in yourself.
Once again, whatever that looks
like to you, walking the middle,
watching the corners,
breathing in and breathing out,
And yet, loosening the grip.
Touching into everything in this moment,
within this minute, that is true to you.
Breathing in, truth.
Breathing out, release.
Letting go, letting in, watching it
in your body,
and watching it
leave your body.
One may say this is a
release of attachment.
Breathing in and breathing out.
What are we releasing attachment to?
Breathing in, pondering, children,
loved ones, family, career, identity,
and breathing out, holding it loosely,
acknowledging, allowing all to be present,
finding breath in,
witnessing attachments,
love, and connection,
and breathing out, softening the grip.
Finding one breath in, turning
to centering, turning to
grounding, not rushing anything,
witnessing the space, witnessing
the play of attachment and grasp,
and opening your eyes
when you feel called.
Hi, it's Ryan.
Welcome to your weekly dose of the
Psychedelic Psychologist, where I
invite my guests to share stories
about their psychedelic experiences.
We cover a variety of topics,
from overcoming addiction,
severe depression, and finding
wholeness in spiritual emergence.
Today, I'm profoundly
grateful that I have amnesia.
I can't recall what we're doing.
We're just going to play.
We're going to talk without
intention, without any grasping,
taking this extremely seriously
and not at all serious.
How are you coming in today?
Coming in so well, so happy to be here.
It's wonderful to have you.
Now we'll just sit in silence.
The grass, what are we grasping
and what are we releasing?
What are we grasping?
What are we releasing?
What's growing?
What's dying away as
we're approaching winter?
Yes.
For me, what's growing is an appreciation
for the last five years of my journey.
And how that's shaped and changed
the self knowledge and gnosis that
I've gained, the places and the
experiences that I've been, what I've
seen in these spaces, what I've allowed
into my being, what I've seen and
what's dying away is any attachment
to the way that needs to look.
And instead, what feels aligned,
what feels a resonant, even if that's
different than I always imagined.
Are different from what the collective
would have of me or an expectation.
What's the emotion coming up?
I saw you shift.
I got the privilege to
watch you as you spoke.
There's a tenderness and a gratitude.
I feel like I'm meeting myself
and knowing myself in the
deepest way that I ever have.
And that's an odd feeling being like
at this age, you know, almost in the
middle of this experience in life.
I feel like the last five years have
really enumerated coming into my
authentic expression here and feeling very
confident in what that feels and looks
like and weeding away other voices, other
influence that doesn't make sense for me.
How do you inventory that,
that you're talking about?
I know this five years ago, the inception,
and now there's a deep discernment.
What is the deep discernment
that I'm witnessing in you
and how you're expressing it?
I
think discernment is one
of my favorite words.
I
think speaking specifically about this
work, this play, this being the last
five years, which began with medicine
work in a group type experience.
I had this expectation for about 10
years prior to that ceremony, how this
work would look when I began opening it,
what it would look like for me, what it
would feel like to sit in And ceremony.
What do you, what even is that?
What does that look
like on the other side?
How has my life changed?
How am I weaving this?
How has that changed my life?
I don't even think that I could sit
here for 45 minutes and adequately
express everything that's alchemized and
been rewoven together in the last five
years, it's been incredibly profound.
What I felt is
this deep knowing of self, a
feeling being in experiences
with others.
With others holding space for me,
getting a deep feel intimately about
what that feels like, what that
experience is like, what feels safe.
The, I think what's being talked about
in these circles, medicine work and
psychedelics is, you know, the healing
power of, of group work and taking these
sabbaticals into these faraway lands.
And I also thought that was
the prescription for me.
And it ended up looking
like that at the beginning.
And what I found over the
last several years is that
the most important thing
is to listen to self.
And when something doesn't feel quite
aligned for oneself, to keep seeking.
To be okay with going against what's
being talked about, what's the majority.
Well, what about what's in the corners?
What about what's on the fringe?
What about bringing the ceremony back
to self being one's own guide and
facilitator, even if one is guided.
It's still coming from a
place of gnosis with self.
And so for me what's growing
and what's being weeded away is
knowing that I have my answers.
all within me.
I can do this work supported by
another human or not, but the biggest
thing is to deeply, deeply, one more
time, deeply trust who it is that
you're sitting with for this work.
Be it preparation, Be it the actual
ceremony, be it your integration,
and that means trusting self, and
that means trusting your circle
that's around you in this work.
That's fantastic.
I'm in awe and deeply grateful for
your expression because what you're
saying is sometimes the group and
the fold of the group can be a
little bit dicey and provide more
dissonance than clarity and healing.
Yeah.
And I really did experience that
in my, my first medicine journey.
Five years ago, I found a lot
of healing properties in a group
ceremony, but what I also noticed was.
Over time, working with a certain
community, I was feeling like this
community should be safe, right?
Everything, everything on the outside
said this is a safe thing to do.
But what I noticed was actually
participating in this over time was
not actually feeling good in my body.
I was picking up on other people's
experiences and it was hard and cloudy to
determine what was mine, what was others.
And I was also noticing that certain
things within the space sacredness was not
being held the way I wanted it to be held
the way I needed it to be held, and I was
looking around wondering if others in this
community were feeling the same thing.
And I was.
experiencing fear because I felt
like the only one that was seeing it
and I had to be very Aligned
with self to inventory.
What am I seeing?
What am I feeling within this community?
Why doesn't it feel good to me?
Is it okay that it doesn't feel good to
me and everyone else is okay with it?
Yes That just means it's
not for me pure magic.
It sounds as if to it's a resonate
It's resonating consent and clear
consent within self like full body.
Yes.
Full body.
Yes.
Yes.
Vibrating over the course because I
have had the deep honor and privilege
of walking with you for five years.
What do you start to recognize?
As that was being identified, and
what were you doing simultaneously?
I started going more inward
in myself, in my own knowing.
I started narrowing my, my circle around
me, my guides, the people that I hold
close in these spaces to talk with.
I started getting very,
very narrow in scope.
I started feeling into Okay.
Well, what does feel good?
What, what support people, what allies,
what medicines, what rituals, what ways
of being feel good to me began having
more of a dialogue with my own inner
knowing only the language of my body,
which I know I've talked about a lot
because it's important when I shave
away influence from everything else.
then I can get to the heart of it.
That's very clearly said.
It's that shaving away and getting the
dissonance, the noise and turning inward.
It's magic.
Speak to me a little bit
about what's alive now.
So fast forward, what, what, what
are we, what are we recognizing
within this wonderful sphere and
experience that we're walking?
Gonna breathe into that question.
It's a good one.
I think what's alive in me now is,
and I think you're going
to really enjoy this.
Is embodying what it means to be gentle
with oneself really, instead of just
hearing, because I know that's something
that you share a lot to be gentle,
instead of just hearing it, to bring it
closer into my heart, to really feel what
that invitation is, gentle compassion.
really seeing not only the last five
years, but the entire arc of my life.
What am I seeing in your emotion?
What are you emoting right now?
I just had this really quick vision
that came across as I was speaking
of myself five years ago, when I had
set out on this medicine journey, the
first of my life that I'd prepared
for, for an entire decade in this
brand new country I'd never been to.
I can see myself, I can see.
All my physical attributes, but more
importantly, I can actually feel what it
feels like to be in my body at that time.
And I'm just sensing
the distance that I've traveled and
grown and stretched and sensing in my
body the way I feel in this moment.
And I feel a deep sense of
gratitude and tenderness.
for that journey and arc.
So profound and so courageous.
I'm indebted to your work and devotion.
I wouldn't even call it work.
I'm shifting that to devotion, right?
And thank you for smiling and laughing
because on the other side of that
death is nothing but a rebirth, no?
Mm hmm.
Over and over again is what I
experienced in this process.
Fuck yeah, like such a death rebirth
process, and I know it seems very
cliche to say, but it's evident in
your expression today because of the
articulation and the cataloging, I
think, to your point of integrating
and preparing, and it's, it's a
necessity to catalog, otherwise
There's no, it's, it's vaporized.
It's almost like you're just doing
drugs and you're like, Oh, fuck it.
And then you're chasing, you're
chasing and chasing and chasing.
And before you know it, you're
there's more time in space
than there is in reality.
And that fantasy and that reality
kind of then just become one.
And you're like, Oh fuck,
what, where am I tethered?
Right?
What is my reality?
What is, and reality is, is we're all co
creating it, co creating with ourselves.
With others, with our environment, right?
Right.
Both living and inanimate.
And I love that you're bringing this up
because I think really paying attention
to who you're surrounding yourself with
in this devotional work is probably
one of the most important little
nuggets of wisdom that I could share.
It matters.
Sure fucking does, doesn't it?
It deeply matters because
Knowing where you are and where
someone ends, where your boundaries
are, knowing what your reality is,
what someone else's reality is,
so that when you're co creating in
your life, I know where I stand.
I know what's real for me because
I'm checking in with self constantly.
I know what feels aligned.
So that even when I'm in groups
or in other communities, I know
exactly where my edges are.
I know what feels
aligned and what doesn't.
Yeah, that's important.
It's super important.
And I think we're recognizing more and
more outside of psychedelic space because
it's happening where everybody is trying
to superimpose their self in other places
like be it with socials and all the other
shit that goes with it is you're always
At the mercy and something I know about
you and I is we're, you know, against
the grain with the socials, against the
grain with the, you know, telephones.
And what does that provide you?
Just to get a little plug for
the, the throw the fucking
smartphone out the window.
That's like,
let's have ADHD right now for a second.
Let's just play with
the ADHD that we have.
What is it like to not have a telephone?
I should sell myself out.
I'm super sorry.
I'm going to sell myself
out in an I statement.
My ADD.
Well, I appreciate it.
I'll come to the table with my ADHD.
Thank you.
Just our ADHD soup.
We're just going to have a
rainbow conversation here.
Yeah, I'm going to take this invitation.
I like it because in the last five years,
that's been a major, just concrete example
of part of the devotional work was.
Getting rid of a smartphone, not operating
with one in my life, seeing the value of
not multitasking at all.
Right.
Deeply present with what it is that I'm
doing with what topic we're talking about.
We can shift topics all day long.
No problem.
I want to be with you.
I want to be with whoever I
want to be with myself deeply
with what it is that I'm doing.
And I've noticed that Getting
rid of my smartphone has allowed
me to be intentional on a level
I could have never imagined.
My entire psychology has changed being
with others, like hearing what they're
saying, hearing between their words.
I've always been deeply skilled with that.
And now because of less pools on my
time, on my energy, on my sovereignty,
I get to be fully in my expression.
And I'm going to tell you a secret.
It feels really fucking good, right?
Yes, the phantom vibrations that
go along with the smartphones
are the funniest thing.
It's like,
And, and because you and I have
synchronicities in place where we're
out in public at some places and all
you can see is the devotion to the
screen and there's no judgment in
that, but I'm advocating and to your
wonderful endorsement, set it down.
Everything will be much more vibrant.
The conversations will be
much more intimate and yes, it
does feel much more vibrant.
I've probably said this a million times
in these podcasts, but I walk every day.
Every day I take barefoot walks.
It's it's important.
It's a rhythm.
It's a cadence.
I've noticed since not having a phone,
not having that influence, not having
that pull and being able to really focus
my presence and my attention with the
people and the things that I care about.
Those walks are like HD vibrating
walks, colors, the sharpness.
The people that walk past me, the smiles
on their face, paying attention to the
sweet old man that I see every day who
birdwatches and he tells me the same thing
every day, the same greeting with the
same smile on his face, that being able to
pay attention to that as a fucking gift.
What's alive in you right
now as I see that, that was
such a beautiful expression.
Bliss.
There's no need to search.
I just take my shoes off.
I walk out of my front door.
Amazing.
It's right there.
I don't have to search.
I love it.
I'm gonna pivot to a different
question of ending just the fucking
spit and the ADHD soup of mine.
What are you doing to be serious?
Not so serious.
How are you walking in the world?
This wonderful person gave
me that gift of serious.
Why so serious?
What are you doing to be serious?
Not so serious.
Play.
Oh my gosh.
Play.
Play is the medicine.
There's so much play.
I'm giving myself space to do the
things I've always wanted to do.
I'm paying attention to the places
where I'm trying to take that away from
myself and self sabotage, which I can
hear because I have the space to do it.
I can listen to myself deeper that way.
I'm playing.
I'm having fun.
I'm creating.
I'm dancing.
I'm having the most meaningful
connections of my life.
I'm having the most deep conversations.
I'm having the most exquisite experiences.
I bow to you.
Thank you.
Such a humbling privilege to walk
alongside of you on this journey,
celebrating, changing and letting
things die and letting things be reborn.
Thank you.
Grateful for you in this time.
Thank you so much.