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This is a show for burnt-out fashion designers (and TDs, PDs, patternmakers and beyond) who want more flexibility while still doing work they love. As a freelance fashion designer, you can build your fashion career on your own terms. Freelancing in fashion is the only way to get freedom in your day (instead of being tied to a desk). Whether you want to earn extra money on the side, fund your fashion brand, or replace your salary, the FDGP podcast will help you get there. Listen in for actionable tips and strategies to kickstart or grow your career as a freelance fashion designer, build your confidence, and create the life you want. Hosted by $100k+ fashion freelancer Sew Heidi, the show features interviews and strategy sessions with successful freelance fashion designers from around the world who've ditched toxic fashion jobs and taken control of their own destinies. This is the only place to get REAL insights from REAL freelancers who have built REAL careers on their own terms. (Formerly the Successful Fashion Freelancer podcast.)
Heidi [00:00:00]:
It is easy to lose your sense of self worth and confidence in the fashion industry. Jobs can be toxic, bosses can be backstabbing, and you can start to doubt yourself and your skills. That's exactly what happened to my guest today, Jenny Flance. So she quit her job without much of a plan, learned Clo and decided to start freelancing. She joined Fast, my signature program on Freelancing, and within a month had landed her first client. She has a few more in the pipeline as well. Jenny shares exactly how she got that client and how she's growing her freelance business. But most importantly, she shares how she got her confidence and self esteem back up.
Heidi [00:00:31]:
If you're feeling down in your fashion career or you just want some tips on landing your first freelance gig, you're going to love this episode of Fashion Designers Get Paid. Let's get to it. Tell me a little bit about yourself and your endeavors into freelancing and fashion.
Jenny Pflanz [00:00:46]:
Yeah. So I am a 3D technical designer and product developer. I work with smaller brands, not necessarily startups, but smaller brands that do women's wear in the outdoor and active industry.
Heidi [00:01:02]:
Okay, so 3D technical and product developer, smaller women's, outdoor and active.
Jenny Pflanz [00:01:10]:
Yes.
Heidi [00:01:11]:
I love how niche that is. How did you yeah, go ahead.
Jenny Pflanz [00:01:17]:
Well, I felt like maybe I was including too much stuff, but I feel like this is a good starting point, including outdoor and active, but they're kind of similar.
Heidi [00:01:28]:
Yeah. And since you're so specialized with 3D technical and product development, and then you're also like just women's and then you're also smaller brands, I think there's so many qualifiers in there that it really speaks to a very specific brand and customer. How did you figure that out? Like, who you wanted to serve?
Jenny Pflanz [00:01:54]:
Well, my last job in house was for an outdoor lifestyle womenswear company, and it was a really cool company, and I really liked the product. And when I left, it just made sense that would be my next because I really like being outdoors. I'm here in Colorado and I really like to hike. And since I've left that job, that's kind of what I've immersed myself in. So it just made sense to do outdoor and active apparel because fitness also is another big thing that I'm really into working out and everything. Yeah, I feel like you should work with the product that you know, and since I like to do those things, it makes sense to work with those kinds of companies. And also here in Colorado, we have a lot of those companies. There are a lot of small startups, small brands that are in that industry.
Jenny Pflanz [00:02:54]:
So I think it's a good entryway point.
Heidi [00:02:57]:
And then were you previously doing 3D? Is that also how you kind of settled on that specific service?
Jenny Pflanz [00:03:02]:
No, this is new. This whole year has been kind of a whirlwind because I quit my job back in February. Of this year.
Heidi [00:03:16]:
Okay.
Jenny Pflanz [00:03:17]:
And I didn't really know what I was going to do. I just knew I didn't want to be there anymore. So I quit and I signed up to take a cloakhouse at Fit.
Heidi [00:03:32]:
Okay.
Jenny Pflanz [00:03:33]:
And it was like a couple months long and there were two course, and I thought I would see how. So I took it and I loved it. And I was like, you know what? I think this could be a good path for me. So maybe I'll take the advanced course. And maybe I hadn't really decided to freelance at quite that point, but I thought that this could be a good career development, a new asset that I could offer any company or whatever my next step was. Yeah, so I took the advanced course and loved it. It was so much fun. And then it ended in the middle of August, and I think it was July when I started thinking, I think I want to freelance.
Jenny Pflanz [00:04:29]:
And it kind of was sparked by seeing you, finding you online and your course because I think I signed up in July. And I also saw on LinkedIn one of my connections posted about wanting a freelance technical designer who specializes in and that was based in the Denver area. And I was like, whoa, what are the chances that someone's asking for the thing that I'm thinking of doing? So I just felt like it was a sign.
Heidi [00:05:06]:
Yeah.
Jenny Pflanz [00:05:08]:
And then I found you. I signed up for your course and then I landed my first client. I started working in August.
Heidi [00:05:16]:
Okay, so just for context, it's October 24 right? Now that we're recording this just because it'll air a little bit later. So signed up for Fast in July and you got your first client in August. Is that the client that you saw post a thing on LinkedIn or where did this client come from?
Jenny Pflanz [00:05:32]:
Okay, so this client came from doing my customer research? Actually, yes. Well, first of all, the customer research part terrified me. I was like, this can't be right. We have to reach out to people now so soon. And so I was like, you know what? I'm just going to ease myself in. I'm going to reach out to people I know.
Heidi [00:05:58]:
Totally.
Jenny Pflanz [00:05:58]:
So I reached out to this woman who I actually interviewed. She was in my interview for a job at a company here in Denver a couple years ago. And we just kind of kept in contact, like small contact, just like, congratulations on how long you've been at your job, that kind of stuff.
Heidi [00:06:21]:
Okay.
Jenny Pflanz [00:06:22]:
And I reached out to her and asked if she would be willing to talk to me. And she's like, sure. And I told her I was doing freelancing. And she's like, perfect timing. I actually know someone who needs some help. And it is a brand that is in my niche. I just can't even believe it. The luck that I had.
Jenny Pflanz [00:06:47]:
So she put me in contact with this woman, and lo and behold, it is the woman that interviewed me at that same company. Like, she moved to this new company and they used to work together, but both of them wild. And yeah, I've started working for them at the beginning of August, and it's kind of an ongoing thing. Yeah, I've been doing probably, like ten ish hours a week. Oh, great. But that's a good base. Yeah, it's a good base, and it's some money coming in. It's not 3D work, though.
Jenny Pflanz [00:07:33]:
It's like product development. Just kind of helping with the overflow. But they are open to 3D, which is great because at least I'm getting my foot in the door with this company, establishing myself and trust and maybe down that path, for sure.
Heidi [00:07:50]:
Okay, so you were really nervous to do customer research, but then how did it feel to go out and pitch yourself? Because I hear this from everybody inside fast. Like, I'm sorry, I have to do what with the customer research? But I'm like, if you are not comfortable doing the customer research, how are you going to be comfortable going out and pitching yourself? To me? That's like, a whole nother level. Because there's something at stake, right? You're being like, hey, can you hire me for some work? In so many other words. But how did those two things ultimately line up emotionally for you?
Jenny Pflanz [00:08:29]:
Well, the customer research, like, reaching out to people that I knew, kind of took some of the pressure off of the pitching is, but I'm finding that pitching is like, it's not really for me. I guess it's not really that intimidating until I'm pressing send or until I get apply. Yeah, it's it's when it becomes real that it starts to be intimidating, nervous before those calls. And so I think it's just when it gets real, that's when I get nervous. Okay, that's kind of a common thread.
Heidi [00:09:14]:
Okay, so you mentioned to me, let me make sure I get this right. The very first pitch I sent out, I got a reply within the hour. She said she's out of the country currently, but wants me to follow up next week when she's back so we can set up a call. So that must have been a nervous moment.
Jenny Pflanz [00:09:32]:
Well, we still haven't had the call yet. She got back. This was, I think, last week that she got back, and I did reach out, but I think it was too soon, and so she didn't get back to me. But I did email her just this morning and sent her my calendar link, so hopefully she can just set up a time that works for her because she was there for a month. She's probably got a lot to catch up. I don't want to pressure her.
Heidi [00:10:01]:
Yeah.
Jenny Pflanz [00:10:01]:
Sending her my calendar I thought was, like, the best way to approach it. Totally.
Heidi [00:10:07]:
And getting a reply to your first cold pitch. That had to feel like, pretty awesome.
Jenny Pflanz [00:10:12]:
Yes. I was so surprised too. I just remember taking a deep breath and hitting Send. And then I think it was like maybe 20 minutes later, I got a reply and she's like, yes, send your portfolio. And I was like, oh, my God. I wasn't expecting a reply, first of all, and I wasn't expecting it this fast. Thank God I have my website up, it's all ready. So, yeah, I sent her my portfolio and again, she got back to me right away and was like, yeah, I'm out of the country for a month.
Jenny Pflanz [00:10:51]:
I'm back on this day, but let's set up a call when I'm back, so I feel pretty optimistic that that's going to still happen. Totally, yeah.
Heidi [00:11:00]:
That's amazing. And then you mentioned another thing, that you got another client by going back to someone and saying thank you.
Jenny Pflanz [00:11:08]:
Yes, well, it hasn't turned into a client quite yet, but the woman that recommended me to my first client, I reached out to her to say thank you and to kind of let her know that it was going well. It worked out. I'm working with them. And she was like, I was about to reach out to you because she's got a client who she's designing a swimwear brand for or a swimwear line for, and she thought it would be really good to have 3d mockups because it's a swimwear line for women who have had double mastectomies. Oh, cool. Showing the fit in the 3D mockups would be really beneficial because you just don't see that anywhere.
Heidi [00:11:57]:
No, literally nowhere. Yeah.
Jenny Pflanz [00:12:00]:
And I was like, yes, and I haven't heard anything in a while. I did follow up once and she said that her client is kind of ghosting her. She's still in touch with me, but there's no news on that particular job. But I still feel like there's opportunity and at least this particular connection is like, she's still keeping me in mind.
Heidi [00:12:27]:
Yeah. But if nothing else, the lesson learned of the value of reaching out to someone and just saying thank you is how you stay top of mind for them to keep sending you referrals or for them to keep thinking of you when they might need something.
Jenny Pflanz [00:12:43]:
Exactly. Yeah.
Heidi [00:12:46]:
Okay, so you got this first project that has a nice ten hour a week base through a connection. Through a connection. And if you're comfortable sharing numbers, our listeners always love to hear numbers, but if not, that's totally cool too. How did you figure out how to go into the pricing and what that would look like working together with them?
Jenny Pflanz [00:13:14]:
I kind of used your drop the three zeros formula based off of the salary I was last making.
Heidi [00:13:22]:
Okay.
Jenny Pflanz [00:13:23]:
So at my last job, and I know that I probably should have been making more, but as a good base, I was making 64,000 at that last job. So I decided on 65 an hour.
Heidi [00:13:39]:
Great.
Jenny Pflanz [00:13:40]:
And I also did with my first client, I did kind of say to them that the stuff that they're having me doing, if they want to do 3D work in the future, that's going to be maybe a little bit higher of a rate. Because stuff that I'm doing for them right now is like, measuring samples and helping with bomb updates and tech packs and it's just not as skilled as the 3D.
Heidi [00:14:04]:
Yeah.
Jenny Pflanz [00:14:05]:
So we have an opportunity to renegotiate my rate at that time.
Heidi [00:14:10]:
That's awesome that you planted that seed up front. They were receptive to that. Yeah. 3d is in demand, and I think it's going to be that way for a while. There is a learning curve. It sounds like you caught on pretty quickly.
Jenny Pflanz [00:14:25]:
Yeah, I think I did. I mean, in a way, it's similar to Illustrator because there's, like, all the tools, except there's two sets of tools.
Heidi [00:14:35]:
Yes.
Jenny Pflanz [00:14:38]:
And maybe just the fact that I know how to use Illustrator pretty well. It's just like learning what the tools are and what they do. And also I didn't have a job when I was learning it, so I could really dive in deep and spend time and play around with it outside of what was required of the course.
Heidi [00:15:06]:
Yeah. That is a luxury that not everybody is afforded. So that is definitely a nice position to be in. Okay, so you mentioned, like, you quit your job because you weren't sure what you wanted, but you said I didn't want to be there. Did you know about freelancing in this type of capacity? Or did you know that this type of work was really an option? Or where were you at on that before you I know you said you discovered my content in, like, maybe July or something.
Jenny Pflanz [00:15:36]:
Yeah, I knew that there were freelancers out there because, like, at my last job, we did hire some freelancers.
Heidi [00:15:43]:
Okay. Like real remote, not in house freelance. Okay.
Jenny Pflanz [00:15:47]:
Yes. They were, like, designing stuff. So it wasn't like necessarily technical design or product development freelancers, but more so design. So I knew that those kinds of jobs did exist, but I definitely was more familiar with the permalance freelance opportunities. And I was terrified. I've never really thought about doing freelance before because I like stability and having a steady paycheck. That seemed more attractive to me. And I don't know, the confidence that you need to be a freelancer too, I guess the confidence to put yourself out there and to really sell yourself and believe in yourself that you can do what you say you can do.
Jenny Pflanz [00:16:44]:
I was really not like when I left my last job. I was not in a good confidence place. I really was beaten down. So, yeah, it took me a while to get there.
Heidi [00:16:58]:
Okay. How long had you been in the.
Jenny Pflanz [00:17:00]:
Industry previous, but a little over eight years. Okay, so good bit technical designer.
Heidi [00:17:10]:
Okay.
Jenny Pflanz [00:17:10]:
Yeah.
Heidi [00:17:13]:
So due to maybe various circumstances, your confidence was a little bit down. How do you think that I just had this discussion with someone this morning. How do you think the scenario changes when it comes to your confidence between putting yourself out there as a freelancer and putting yourself out there as a job? Like applying for a job.
Jenny Pflanz [00:17:42]:
I think it's just you're more on when you're freelancing because you have to do everything. You have to network or you should network and you should be reaching out and you just have to project that confidence. Otherwise people don't really want to work with you. And when you're applying to an in house job, it's the interviews that you really make your impression. And then whenever I got jobs and I would start, I always came at it from a learning perspective. I need to learn how this company does things so I didn't have to necessarily project the same level of confidence that I guess I feel like this might not be true, but I feel like I have to project as a freelancer. But I will say that now that I have been doing freelance and learning the Clogue software, my confidence has gone so much high. Just I don't know, I feel like I can do it.
Jenny Pflanz [00:18:52]:
I know what I'm doing. I don't know, I think sometimes I let my self worth be defined by how well I'm doing at my job. And if I'm not happy or if it's not going well, then it has affected me. So that's kind of something that I've been working on since I quit back in February.
Heidi [00:19:16]:
Yeah. So learning Clo and getting a client and doing the work, like you said, your confidence is much higher now. When do you feel like there was a tipping point? Was it just by learning quo or was it by learning quo? And then actually well, you said you're not even doing quo for your current client, though. When was that tipping point of like, okay, I got my confidence boost back.
Jenny Pflanz [00:19:42]:
So I think it was like in the middle of the CLO courses because I understand how to work, manipulate a pattern and so it's like, oh yeah, maybe that's why it was easier for me to learn too. I just inherently knew how some of the stuff worked. Yeah, I can do this. And I also got that made me picked my projects out sometimes as the best in the course. And that was huge. What happened with the she picked my project. Like the teacher, the instructor would choose the best project for the week and she would pick mine sometimes. Then it was just huge.
Jenny Pflanz [00:20:38]:
A huge confidence. Yeah. When the courses ended, she had really nice things to say and that helped tremendously. And then when I found your course and I don't know, I think just how easy it was to get my first client. And I know it's hard to find clients, and I haven't found a second one yet, so I know that it's hard work, but it gave me the confidence to keep going with it. The fact that I could get something so quickly inspires me to continue to do hard things. To do the hard things, because they do pan out.
Heidi [00:21:20]:
They do.
Jenny Pflanz [00:21:23]:
And with the client that I have now, even though I'm not doing super skilled stuff, I think it's actually been really good for my confidence too. Because the things that maybe I thought I couldn't do, like this simple stuff, I'm proving to myself and to this client that I can do it. And I know what I'm doing.
Heidi [00:21:44]:
Totally. Okay, so you never really thought about freelancing. You quit your job in February. You took the cloak course. Just out of curiosity, how did you find my content if maybe you weren't looking for freelancing stuff? And then what was the moment where you're like, wait, maybe I should look at this freelancing stuff?
Jenny Pflanz [00:22:04]:
Yeah, I think I was trying to get my portfolio updated and I was doing some technical sketches in Illustrator and I was like, man, it's taking me a really long time to fill these with color. I wonder if there's a better way. I wonder what the best way to do it is. And it is hard to find good content. YouTube has a lot of Illustrator tutorials, but a lot of them are like 3 hours long and have way more information than you need. And I came across your website because you had a freebie for download some trims or something that you oh, yes, the trim library. And I was like, oh, yeah, I'll take that. Yeah, I could use some free trims.
Jenny Pflanz [00:22:53]:
And I downloaded it. And then I got onto your email list, and then I think you started emailing about the fast course. Maybe it was a three day event, I can't remember, but the three day training. And I was like, maybe I should do this because I don't really know how to freelance. And this could help me see the path account for things that I might not know how to do.
Heidi [00:23:19]:
Yeah.
Jenny Pflanz [00:23:19]:
And I am lucky that my partner is actually a freelancer too, but he's in a different industry. He's in film and editing and stuff. So I feel like the industries are different enough that your content has been super helpful. And really, your content, like the things that you've said to do, have led to all the success that I have had so far. That's been great.
Heidi [00:23:46]:
Yeah.
Jenny Pflanz [00:23:46]:
Well worth it.
Heidi [00:23:47]:
Yeah. Thank you. You've taken action on it, though, and you've worked hard. At what point were you like, okay, maybe I'm going to do freelancing? I'm still unsure where that was, like, a conscious decision, because you said you hadn't really thought about it before.
Jenny Pflanz [00:24:04]:
Yeah, I think it was that post on LinkedIn where someone was asking specifically for the thing that I was thinking of doing.
Heidi [00:24:13]:
Okay.
Jenny Pflanz [00:24:15]:
And then I saw your course, and I was like, I just feel like this okay.
Heidi [00:24:18]:
Right. Got you.
Jenny Pflanz [00:24:19]:
I think this is something I'm supposed to try. And also, there weren't a ton of jobs to apply for, and I was like, I need some income. And so I think maybe at first it kind of started as, oh, well, I'll just do this to pass the time, but now I feel like this might be what I want to do, because I just love the freedom to be able to work with the people I want to work with. When you get an in house job, you're stuck with those people, and if you don't like them, then it's hard. It's hard to find a family at a job where you like the job and you like all the people. That's hard.
Heidi [00:25:08]:
Yeah. How do you feel the balance is going now that you're freelancing with maybe not being in house and not having that, as you call family or social office aspect? Because I know for some people, that can feel tough, and obviously we all got pretty much everybody got accustomed to it in one way or another via COVID. But for some people, that can feel like hard. How do you feel like you're adjusting to that?
Jenny Pflanz [00:25:40]:
It hasn't been an issue for me. I have a lot of close friends that I reach out to, and I have some Type A friends, too, and we have scheduled times to see each other. And actually, I have a friend who lives in Hawaii, so we do Zoom Chats all the time, and so I guess I just kind of built in a way to see people that I care about. And my partner is here all the time too, so I'm never really alone. And then also with the community, like the fast community, I've been reaching out and talking to a lot of them recently, too, which has been wonderful. The community that the fast community is just incredible.
Heidi [00:26:33]:
Thank you. Yeah. I always say it's like no other, and it's hard to really hype up what it actually is until people get inside, and then they're like, oh, wow, this is a really good community. I'm glad to hear that.
Jenny Pflanz [00:26:47]:
Be around so many people that are doing the same thing as you or adjacent to you that could help you. They could answer questions that you might have. It's so valuable. It's like having coworkers.
Heidi [00:27:07]:
Yeah, I love that. So what are your plans? What are you currently working on? Are you still pitching? Where are you at?
Jenny Pflanz [00:27:17]:
I'm still pitching. I'm hoping that the woman that was out of the country, I'm really hoping that that turns into a call. No guarantees it'll be a client, but I'm hopeful that it will be. Yeah, totally. And I'm going to keep on top of the other woman to put me in touch with my first client and hopefully that will turn into something. And then I'm just sending follow ups. I have a bunch of follow ups I need to do on pitches that I've previously sent out. Yeah.
Jenny Pflanz [00:27:52]:
Just sending all those emails.
Heidi [00:27:54]:
Yeah.
Jenny Pflanz [00:27:55]:
And finding pieces of value. That's actually something that you talk about that I'm really struggling with. I don't know what is so hard about it, but I guess I'm struggling to find the right things. Maybe I'm just overthinking it.
Heidi [00:28:11]:
My guess is you're likely overthinking it.
Jenny Pflanz [00:28:14]:
Yeah.
Heidi [00:28:18]:
It can be anything from here's my unsolicited advice, but it could even be a quick screenshot of a self directed project that you recently did in Clo that visually would really make sense to that brand. Right. Be like, hey, I just wanted to share this mockup I was just playing around with. It reminds me of some of the pieces you do or some of the pieces in your line. Always love sharing what's possible in Clo. Close your mouth. Yeah, that's great. I think that people love, especially some of the new stuff with Clo and the 3D rendering.
Heidi [00:29:01]:
People love seeing those images and seeing what's possible with these really powerful softwares. So, yeah, you don't need to overthink it. And it can be like a little bit of like a backdoor brag. Yeah, I stealing that from Jenna from 30 Rock.
Jenny Pflanz [00:29:23]:
Watch the show.
Heidi [00:29:28]:
That's always an option. And another really easy one is just a really genuine compliment or just like a really genuine personal check in.
Jenny Pflanz [00:29:38]:
Like, hey, I saw you posted this.
Heidi [00:29:40]:
Thing on LinkedIn or on Instagram and I just wanted to let you know how cool I thought it was. Or post directly on the post, comment directly on the post or something. Just genuine engagement can be massive value because, let's be honest, most people don't do it.
Jenny Pflanz [00:29:55]:
Takes work. Yeah, it does. Well, those are all great ideas.
Heidi [00:30:01]:
Yeah. So try out some of those and make your life simple. Don't overthink those things. Yeah. I am super excited to hear your successes, Jenny, and how everything has gone so well for you. It does sound like a lot of stars aligned, but as I talk about in some of my trainings, I'm a big believer that success is three parts. One is risk. Putting yourself out there and taking the risk strategy, like having the right knowledge and skills and strategy.
Heidi [00:30:31]:
And then third is luck. But I genuinely believe that when you lean into that risk and you lean into that strategy, you will put yourself in many more positions where you can get lucky. And so I don't ever like to discount when the stars align. And yes, of course things fall in our lap. But also, you've done a lot of things proactively to get these certain opportunities, so please applaud yourself for that.
Jenny Pflanz [00:31:02]:
Thank you. Yeah.
Heidi [00:31:04]:
In case anyone needs to hire a 3D glow technical designer product developer for small women's, active and outdoor brands. Did I get it?
Jenny Pflanz [00:31:19]:
Yeah.
Heidi [00:31:20]:
Maybe not as succinctly as you said it, but those are all the qualifiers. Jenny just may be your person. Where can people connect with you online?
Jenny Pflanz [00:31:28]:
I'm on LinkedIn. Are we connected? I think we are.
Heidi [00:31:34]:
Okay. I just got really active on there.
Jenny Pflanz [00:31:38]:
I've been enjoying all of your posts, by the way.
Heidi [00:31:40]:
Oh, good. Thank you. Thank you.
Jenny Pflanz [00:31:43]:
Jennifer Flans. Is my name on there? Okay.
Heidi [00:31:46]:
Link to that.
Jenny Pflanz [00:31:48]:
P-F-L-A-N-Z silent P. And then my work email is Jenny M. Flans at gmail.
Heidi [00:32:00]:
Okay, awesome. We'll put both of those in the.
Jenny Pflanz [00:32:02]:
Show notes and email me there.
Heidi [00:32:03]:
Awesome. And I'd love to end with a question I ask everybody at the end of the interview, and that is what is one thing people never ask you about being a freelancer in fashion that you wish they would?
Jenny Pflanz [00:32:15]:
I wish they would ask me about anything about sustainability that is part of wanted to do, Clo, is to help. I know it's becoming like a bigger thing now. A lot of companies are taking that seriously. But I feel like people, at least in my circle, they're not asking me about what are brands doing or what can you do or what should I look for in a brand when I'm getting clothes? I think knowledge about how you can be more sustainable and things to look for. And I just think I wish people asked me a little more about that.
Heidi [00:33:02]:
Yeah.
Jenny Pflanz [00:33:02]:
Okay.
Heidi [00:33:03]:
What are some of the tips that you would give people.
Jenny Pflanz [00:33:08]:
Looking at if companies are certified? Like if they have a fair trade certified, just like kind of what certifications do they have? And on their website, what are they talking about? How are they trying to be sustainable? Are they recycling coffee grounds or are they recycling plastic from the ocean? I feel like if they're putting a genuine effort into being sustainable, they're going to brag about it on their website. If it's just a passing statement like, oh yeah, we are trying to be sustainable with everything. And that's all they say. I question how serious they are about it. I guess it might be true. But I feel like the companies and the brands that are really putting their best foot forward with that is when they're really bragging about it and telling you exactly what and how they're doing it.
Heidi [00:34:00]:
Yeah. So specific details rather than broad sweeping statements.
Jenny Pflanz [00:34:04]:
Yes.
Heidi [00:34:06]:
Awesome. And then that goes in hand in hand with the closed services that you're offering because that can really reduce the amount of prototypes, which is sustainable in so many ways.
Jenny Pflanz [00:34:17]:
Yes. And I feel like that's how I can do my part. I want to help brands be more sustainable and I want to be a part of the solution because when I found in college, we didn't learn about how the apparel industry is. Like one of the top polluters and it was disheartening when I figured that out. And I don't know that if I'd known that in college it would have swayed me against what I do now, but I think it might have made me a little more in the know about it. Like I might have been a little more selective of what I applied to or just, I don't know, just being more conscious of now. Yeah. I feel like with Clo, I can make a difference.
Heidi [00:35:10]:
You can do your yeah.
Jenny Pflanz [00:35:12]:
Yeah.
Heidi [00:35:12]:
Awesome. Thank you so much for chatting, Jenny. It was lovely to have you.
Jenny Pflanz [00:35:16]:
Yeah, you too. Thanks for having me.