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Above The Board podcast is a unique blend of NBA opinion, stats, and culture. Host of Above The Board Kebron Hailu covers the NBA from all angles — from stats and game breakdowns to player stories and league culture. Whether it’s the NBA Finals, Draft, or free agency, we’re talking hoops the way fans actually watch and think about the game. Expect honest takes, smart analysis, and a real love for basketball.
0:00:00
(Speaker 1)
Cinema, that was cinema. I'm not gonna lie to you. The Thunder's tied up two a piece, beating the Pacers 111-104 in game four of the NBA Finals. And this is just straight up a classic already in its own self.
0:00:17
(Speaker 1)
We've had three very close games and then one blowout. But what a special game from the OKC Stars. I thought Shea just completely took over in that fourth quarter and just showed you need more than just commodity to win in this series. You need your star players to show up
0:00:36
(Speaker 1)
and the Pacers star players just didn't show up in that fourth quarter and it was a complete takeover from J-Dub and Shea. I thought the Pacers did a great job by throwing the first punch. I thought they had their best first quarter of the series.
0:00:50
(Speaker 1)
I think they scored 35 and I don't even think they've scored over 27 points in any first quarters in this finals and right away, it was just punches after punches because the Thunders went back to the double bigs and I don't know how to back to the double bigs and I don't know how to
0:01:05
(Speaker 1)
feel about the double bigs. I think I'm still on the side where I'm not. I'm not rocking with the double bigs. I thought Mark, I think Mark is messing up with the starting lineups because he went back to the double bigs after kind of getting bullied about the fact that he started Kayson Wallace for the first three games of the series. And I didn't think starting Kayson was ever the bad decision.
0:01:27
(Speaker 1)
I thought that was a great decision. I seen what he was trying to do with starting Kayson and the starting lineup, but it just didn't work out. But he was on the right side of history. He didn't want to play the double bigs against the Pacers lineup.
0:01:40
(Speaker 1)
And I thought game four did a, just described what it would look like perfectly I mean that first quarter they just attack hard defensively non-stop they put them in every action off ball or on ball and they just I think they were a plus no he was a minus seven in the first thing with the double bigs it just completely got crushed and and a problem with heart starting is it's not more just defensively
0:02:05
(Speaker 1)
but he's not doing nothing on the offensive side. I think he played 21 minutes tonight and he scored two points. That's just not enough and the double bigs is just getting ran off the court and they started it again in the second half. Bad stint again. So two very bad stints in this game and I wouldn't be surprised if Mark goes away from it again.
0:02:27
(Speaker 1)
And I think it's just time to have that discussion of should they or should we start Caruso? And Caruso just played crazy in this series. I mean, what a player Caruso is, bro. Two points off the, 20 points off the bench, twice now in NBA
0:02:45
(Speaker 1)
finals and he didn't have a 20-point game all year long that player man I don't even know how to describe Caruso he just makes every play that the Thunders need I mean he's everywhere defensively that second half that they had it didn't make sense him and door it they're completely taken over defensively in this series then and it's kind of taking a toll.
0:03:06
(Speaker 1)
I mean Halliburton. We need we need to smoke this guy and I love Hallie bro, but some of the talks that they had this dude in before this series is crazy. Even if the Pacers win this series. I can't but I can't believe some of the things I was hearing about this guy. He's getting outscored by Alex Caruso
0:03:26
(Speaker 1)
We're in the NBA finals, bro. Somebody needs to talk about this, bro There's no reason why you're starting point guard is getting outscored by Alex Caruso in a final series. It shouldn't it should be no way and he needs more smoke for that I mean bro The ringer had this dude top five before the finals even started because of the run they've been on and I love Halle I wanted it. I wanted the Warriors to draft Halle, but come on, bro. He needs some smoke in his series, bro
0:03:53
(Speaker 1)
It don't make no sense. It don't make no sense He's going three quarters without even looking at the rim sometimes. He needs to do something out there, bro I thought J-Dub, I wanted to talk about J-Dub because I thought J-Dub had a great game and something I've been wanting J-Dub to do all series long, which is stop taking jump shots.
0:04:13
(Speaker 1)
I mean, that's not your game. You're not Shay. You're not SGA. Stop doing these long mid-ranges where you do a step back. You're not SGA and I thought He did he just did a great job in this game Which is putting his head down and saying I'm bigger than these guys nobody on this team could really guard me
0:04:32
(Speaker 1)
They don't have more than three or four plus good defenders in the on their team And I think he had eight field goals in his game seven of them was layups Just put his head down. I think he had eight free throws in the first half. He just put his head down and just completely attacked him, going at them nonstop. And now the Pacers, I thought they had this game
0:04:57
(Speaker 1)
in their hands for the first three quarters and a lot of people did. And ladies and gentlemen, basketball is a 48 minute game and you have to do a good job of reminding yourself that the game is not over. I mean, game three,
0:05:12
(Speaker 1)
the Thunder's were up five going into the fourth quarter and the Pacers completely took over that game and stole that game at home. And game four, going into the fourth quarter, the Pacers were up seven, but what they did was they ended that third quarter kind of rough.
0:05:30
(Speaker 1)
I think Obi Toppin had two missed free throws and Jada made that jump shot right before the fourth quarter and that just kind of swung the momentum to the thunderside. Man, SGA, that fourth quarter, that was generational, that was special.
0:05:48
(Speaker 1)
That was something that people would look back if the Thunders could win the series and say, that was Shay's moment right there. 15 points of their last 16 in that fourth quarter, the Thunders outscored the Pacers by 10 points in the second half
0:06:05
(Speaker 1)
and they just completely took over defensively and then offensively they gave Shea the ball and just said get out the way. He had a point where Chet got the offensive rebound and gave it to Shea and he did like a little push off into a layup that kind of started to get him going. I think he took two free throws from then and then J-Dub had a thing where he just threw the bomb, three ball, and that three ball, I mean, bro,
0:06:30
(Speaker 1)
I thought that was the game. After Shay made that three, it felt like that was the game because, bro, see, I could put his head down after that three. They knew, they knew, man, when a Shay three drops in the clutch, it might be time to go home, bro.
0:06:47
(Speaker 1)
After that, he had a little mid-raise where Nismith, on a little elbow right there, he did a step back on Nismith and Nismith fell and then he made the jump shot to take the lead 105-104. Nismith, I hate when defenders do that. Don't do that with the game on the line. Don't flop with the game on a line don't flop with the game on a line That's never gonna work out for you
0:07:07
(Speaker 1)
some people think that was a travel boat don't don't do that and Yeah, I thought the Thunders did a great job of putting Shay on actions what they did was they put Jade up as the Ball handler and had him doing pick and rolls to getting them hard off of Shay And they just continuously attack Nismith. The thing with Nismith is he's a great defender. He's a great defender, but kind of he's over-jealous.
0:07:32
(Speaker 1)
He's over-aggressive sometimes, and that's why he fouled out in that game. That play where he fouled out, I mean, that reminded me so much of Kobe. That was very special. I'm not gonna lie. That play where he fouled out, I mean, that reminded me so much of Kobe. That was very special, I'm not gonna lie.
0:07:47
(Speaker 1)
Hit him with a little spin, kind of like fake, made him jump, and then he leaned into the right, got fouled on the left wrist, and fouled Nesmith out that game. I think he took like eight free throws in the fourth quarter. That was just a complete takeover and I Don't want to give smoke to Carla, but whoa whoa whoa it. What was that? What was that in the fourth quarter from this guy?
0:08:15
(Speaker 1)
I mean Oh be topping completely took over in the third quarter, and I don't even think he played in the fourth He didn't even play in the fourth. I mean, bro, what is, and the thing with Mathurn, 27 points in 22 minutes in game four, right? No, in game three. And 13 minutes tonight?
0:08:35
(Speaker 1)
13 minutes tonight? Try to make sense of that to me. Ben Shepard had 11 minutes. Why is Ben Shepard playing as much minutes as Benethen Mathern? Are you gonna say he's good defensively?
0:08:48
(Speaker 1)
Because he's not, he's getting overly cooked every time he's on the court. And the thing is, they want Mathern to just score 100 points in 10 minutes every game. No, that's not how basketball works, Carlisle. And this is my problem with people because they try to crown people before they even
0:09:08
(Speaker 1)
get anything. I mean, bro, a couple days ago they telling us that Carlisle is the best coach in the league. No. And even if they win the championship, he still, no, no, he's not. He straight up threw Mathurn to the wolves in that game.
0:09:26
(Speaker 1)
Didn't play him the whole fourth quarter, and with 44 seconds left in the game, he just straight up threw him to the wolves. Put him back in the game, and I think Mathurn had three missed free throws. He had an overly aggressive foul on Shea,
0:09:40
(Speaker 1)
and I think he did another, before the ball even gets tipped in, he had a foul. And a lot of that has to do with momentum. You lost all the momentum in the world and you benched this player for the whole fourth quarter and now you want him to come in and, oh yeah, Mathurin, go get us 100 points. Or go get us five points to get us back in this game.
0:09:59
(Speaker 1)
No, that's not how it works, man. You're completely losing confidence in this player. And I wouldn't even be surprised if Mathurn struggled in Game 5. Because you're doing this thing where this is just how you completely lose a player's confidence. You're straight up not trusting this guy Mathurn, and he's completely showing you he could play
0:10:20
(Speaker 1)
in this series, and he's better than other players in this series. There's no reason why Ben Shepard should even get minutes. Get him out the game. He's doing nothing. He's literally doing nothing. He can't score, he can't shoot, and he can't guard. Stop playing him. Give all those minutes that you're giving to Ben Shepard to Mathurn.
0:10:39
(Speaker 1)
Don't put him back in the game and completely lose his confidence. That's why you're getting a result of three missed free throws. You're putting a young guy back in the game after you didn't trust him the whole fourth quarter. Now, Obi Toppin doesn't get a stint in the fourth quarter after the special third quarter he had. Makes sense. Try to make sense of that. Another takeaway from that game was the fact that Thunders won his game with three threes and that's that's just nuts that doesn't even make sense whatsoever and and
0:11:10
(Speaker 1)
the thing what people Don't understand about this team is defensively. Yes, they're very they're very special but offensively they've been flawed all year and and if you've been watching you could tell that this this team is if SGA doesn't get 35, they're not winning a game, in very important games. And my problem is, none of their shooters have showed up.
0:11:32
(Speaker 1)
I don't even think Chet is shooting over 10% from three in this finals, and that's a very big problem. Jada probably is not shooting over 25% in this series, from three. And when your best shooter all year long in Isaiah Joe can't guard TJ McConnell and that's why he's not playing,
0:11:49
(Speaker 1)
he can't even stick in front of TJ McConnell. That's, come on bro. He played four minutes in game four. Your best shooter all year played four minutes because he can't guard TJ McConnell. And it feels like all series, they just can't shoot at all this roster is very flawed in terms of they don't have a point
0:12:11
(Speaker 1)
guard and and I'm so glad now that we're on this topic and I'm so glad to say that Shay that game right there proved that Shay is not a point guard whatsoever and anybody that thinks that is completely wrong I mean 35 points zero assist. That's how you hoop That's how you hoop When your back is against the wall, that's how that's what a shooting guard is supposed to do You feel me?
0:12:38
(Speaker 1)
35 points no assist. I'm you feel me? This isn't it's straight buckets. That's what a shooting guard is Give him the ball and get out the way. But that's not a point guard. And I'm glad that we could just put that down to bed. Like, no. And I felt like the Thunders did a great job
0:12:55
(Speaker 1)
of managing Shay's minutes in that game. Shay didn't play the whole first quarter. And I felt like that was the first time in like nine games where he didn't he didn't play the whole first quarter he also got a big rest in the second quarter and just see You saw say a lot in the corners this game and just kind of relaxing on offense kind of preserving himself for that fourth quarter
0:13:16
(Speaker 1)
take over and That was special and and I was worth it The Thunder's closed with Caruso over casein and and Hart and that was probably the game ball right there. If I had to give the game ball to anybody, it would be to Alex Caruso. He was the biggest difference in this series
0:13:31
(Speaker 1)
and it's clear that he needs to start. It's no funny. He clearly needs to start over Kayson and Hart and Mark needs to go over that. That shouldn't be your trump card. We're in game five now. We should be in a game where now it should be seven players maybe, eight players playing. I don't think
0:13:50
(Speaker 1)
you need to go to this ten players playing in a game anymore. Before we get an outlook on game five, I want to talk a couple things around the league. Big trade that happened with the Magicians and Grizzlies. Magicians get Desmond Bain for KCP, Cole Anthony, and four unprotected first round picks, one first round pick swap. Big trade, and a lot of people think that
0:14:15
(Speaker 1)
four unprotected first round picks is too much for Desmond Bain. Now, I'm kinda iffy on the trade. At the same time, I kinda see why both teams did it. The Grizzlies needed to get off the Desmond Bain train because that big three just is not gonna work out with Jaron him and John Morant and
0:14:33
(Speaker 1)
While the magics needed to get rid of that KCP contract before for first-round picks I see why the Grizzlies took that over a KCP on a three-year year deal for 66 million I believe, around 22 million a year and that's a lot. Cause KCP was straight up just terrible last year. I mean, yeah they had to get off that and the Magic's desperately needed a shooter like
0:14:58
(Speaker 1)
Desmond Bain. I think he'd come in there an average 20 and this isn't much about Desmond Bain more than it is about Paolo. Go get Paolo guys that can shoot because Paolo's special and that's why I'm not mad about it. I think this is an even trade.
0:15:15
(Speaker 1)
I don't think one team got fleeced or anything like that. I see what both teams are trying to do. I think Grizzlies get a shooting guard and now they could really look for a player that they really need which is the small forward position. And we're talking about small forwards and the only person that's getting talked about nowadays is Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant said his top three teams which is the Spurs, the Heat, and the Rockets. Now that's a good top three for me
0:15:45
(Speaker 1)
and a lot of people think this is him just trying to get rid of, I mean trying to go to cities with no income tax. Now,
0:15:54
(Speaker 2)
KD.
0:15:55
(Speaker 1)
KD said he don't wanna play for Minnesota. And yeah, nobody wants to play for Minnesota. If you ever really just think about it, any player that Minnesota ever had was homegrown was Kevin Garnett, Cat, Ant if you think about all these players they're all drafted nobody is ever gonna go to Minnesota ever like I don't even see it why why would Kevin want to play in Minnesota the only reason why he
0:16:21
(Speaker 1)
would go over there is if Minnesota just gives The Suns a god deal that that's the only way that could happen. I don't see him in, Minnesota And I don't see him to be honest. I didn't really see him on a heat But now now now more likely I'm kind of seeing it the Spurs one makes a lot of sense because they have the trade package for Katie But like I said on a previous episode I'm not giving up that second overall pick for Kevin Durant not at this stage of his career Because I don't think that makes them win the championship
0:16:52
(Speaker 1)
now if they did get KD they would definitely be a playoff team, but Yeah, I'm not rocking with that But I do think there's a way for the Spurs to get Kevin Durant without Giving up that second pick and if I'm them rocking with that, but I do think there's a way for the Spurs to get Kevin Durant without giving up that second pick. And if I'm them, I do that. I go try to get KD if I have to give up a Devin Vissel
0:17:11
(Speaker 1)
with a couple future first round picks or anything like that. But I'm not giving up that second round overall pick this year with Dylan, because yeah, I think Dylan gonna be a special player. Then I kind of sat back and asked myself, if Desmond Bain is going for four first round picks, what's Kevin Durant and what's the asking price
0:17:29
(Speaker 1)
for Kevin Durant from the Suns? Now if I'm a team, I'm not giving up four first round picks for Kevin Durant, not at this stage of his career, because I feel like if you just have a decent young wing and maybe two first round picks, you could get Kevin Durant because he still has to get extended.
0:17:50
(Speaker 1)
Now, and the Suns are desperate. You don't have to throw four first round pigs for that. And the thing with Desmond Bain, yes, clearly Kevin Durant is way better than Desmond Bain. But the thing is, he has a set team that he wants to go to. And not only that, he's a lot older. And a lot of people, I feel like a lot of people are underrating Desmond Bain in this trade.
0:18:15
(Speaker 1)
I mean, Desmond Bain, he's one of the, like, the only three players with 803 pointers on 40% since 2021. And the only other two is Stephen Curry and Zach Levine. This player is a lot better than what people believe. And I think he's gonna have a really good arc
0:18:34
(Speaker 1)
on the Magix, and that's kind of what the type of player that they needed. Him with Suggs, with Paolo, with Franz, that's special. They've been a playoff team for two years in a row, and this might be the difference in them winning a series or not.
0:18:48
(Speaker 1)
And I like the trace for the Magic in that spot. One last thing I wanted to talk about before I get up out of here was game five. And game five is gonna be special. And a lot of people are just automatically penciling in for the Thunder to win this game,
0:19:04
(Speaker 1)
but it's a lot of people are just automatically penciling in for the Thunders to win this game but it's a lot harder than that and People need to stop underrating this Pacers team This is four four games that we've got this kind of evenly looks like an evened up series it's 2-2 and The Pacers can hang with the Thunders. I don't think anybody should even look at it like that. I think they got the the Thunders minus nine and a half. The boogies don't believe the Pacers even have a chance in this game. They automatically think that
0:19:30
(Speaker 1)
this is gonna be a blowout and I don't believe it. Not unless Mark changes certain things about this team and they need to change that starting lineup. They can't go with the double bigs. It might, the double bigs might play a lot better at home because I think Hornstein had a terrible game four. The double bigs might play better at home, but this probably feels like the game for the bench players again,
0:19:53
(Speaker 1)
like game two, where you're going to probably have Aaron Wiggins drop around 10 points or maybe even more than that. Kayson might have his first good game of the series. Isaiah Joe might make some threes at home. God, please, Isaiah Joe, can you hit some threes at least? That's what you did all year long.
0:20:16
(Speaker 1)
They're not winning a game with three three-pointers again. I can't even believe they walked out that arena with a win. Right there, the Pacers should be up 3-1. There's no reason to be losing an NBA Finals game where a team is attempting 17 threes in a game like that. No chance.
0:20:34
(Speaker 1)
That doesn't even make sense remotely. And the Pacers need their star players to show up in this series. Siakam and Halliburton, this is all up to you. You're not winning games with Obi Top and completely taking over and Benedick Mathurin being your only scorers in the second half.
0:20:52
(Speaker 1)
Siakam has zero point in that fourth quarter in game four. They just completely took him away. Took his lunch money. He needs more actions, he needs more touches in the fourth quarter because Siakam's probably your most reliable score other than Mathen in this series and if Siakam is not scoring anything above 20-25, there's no chance for them to win and those first two games
0:21:18
(Speaker 1)
it felt like their whole lineup completely took over and that's why they won those games, but the deeper we get in this series, it's all gonna come down to star power and that's the reason for that game four win from the Thunders, because their stars completely took over that game. And if Hadley's not looking to score,
0:21:38
(Speaker 1)
there's no chance for this team, because Carlisle already kind of took away that confidence of the role players to me TJ McConnell did nothing in the second half of that fourth quarter Mathern this nothing in that second half of the fourth quarter of Game four ob top and did nothing in that in a fourth quarter
0:22:01
(Speaker 1)
Can that translate to Oklahoma in game five? I don't believe so and I'm not gonna completely pencil out the paces in this game But I just don't see them winning game five not not after that blunder and not after that loss That was a complete choke There There needs to be a couple changes for them I don't think I don't think miles turners to even be playing in the fourth quarter of
0:22:21
(Speaker 1)
In a clutch in the series anymore. He looked completely lost in game four. Completely lost. There was a play where he got in the way of Nembhard and it looked like they were just not on the same page. Nembhard had to push Miles Turner out the way in the clutch because this dude is just standing around doing nothing. All he could do is catch and shoot. I don't think he needs to play in that. I'd rather close with OB than Myles Turner in that fourth quarter because I feel like they could run a lot. I love the way that OB Toppin was used as a screener throughout the game and that could kind of work again. I
0:22:57
(Speaker 1)
wouldn't be surprised if the Patriots went to that where they're kind of using him as a big over Myles in the fourth quarter. And that was probably the best offense for Halle to get his game off. Cause Halle, he can't get nothing in this series off the dribble.
0:23:13
(Speaker 1)
He can only do, everything is coming out with the pick and rolls. And OB or Siakam is probably their best screeners. I'd rather have them setting screens over Miles Turner. A lot of times it feels like you know what Miles is trying to do, he's just trying to pop.
0:23:28
(Speaker 1)
And that's his problem. And he just can't score on Chet on the block. It's gonna be hard for him to close in this series. And for the Thunders it's simple. You have to close the game with Caruso. That's their best lineup with Caruso, Chet,
0:23:46
(Speaker 1)
Dort, J-Dub, and Shay. That completely is their, that's their best offensive lineup, and that's easily their best defensive lineup. Kinda do the same things that you did in game four. They did a great job of having SGA set the ball screens
0:24:03
(Speaker 1)
in game four. He tied for his second highest total in any game this season They put Jade up on the ball And I think they're gonna go to that if they go to the clutch in this game if if it gets to that point But I could see a game where what a Thunder's just completely take over and just blow this team out in this game five I Just hope the paces don't lay down. I hope we keep getting special, special hoops.
0:24:27
(Speaker 1)
This has been special to me. This would have been, this has been one of my favorite series in a long time and I'm glad that they're proving everybody wrong. That small market teams, yes, these teams could hoop. This, they've been doing this all year.
0:24:40
(Speaker 1)
This has been the two best teams since January and anybody that expected this series to be bad, you're not watching. You're not watching. Just because your favorite player is not in the NBA Finals doesn't mean these teams don't belong here. You feel me? Just go enjoy hoops man. Stop the Twitter talk. teams don't belong here. You feel me? Just go enjoy hoops man. Stop the Twitter talk. Stop, stop, stop thinking you're too good to watch hoops. Go enjoy this man. You're