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The HeadRush Podcast with Paul Frase and Corey Berry takes you inside the reality of Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE) through the lens of football and rodeo. With firsthand experience in two of the most punishing sports, Paul and Corey share their stories, the lasting effects of head trauma, and the fight for awareness and support.
This is the Head Rush Podcast with Paul Fraze and Corey Barry.
Welcome to the Head Rush Podcast. I'm Paul Fraze, and I played 11 years in the NFL, and our co-host, Corey Barry, rode professional rodeo for nine years. Corey, how are you doing?
I'm doing good, doing good. It's a little hot here in Texas. I don't know about Florida, but we're at 101.
Oh, it was toasty. Yeah, it's been very hot, hot down here, and I've been had to spend, uh, the last few days out in the heat. All right. At the Head Rush Podcast, we talk about everything related to brain trauma and brain health and wellness. We focus on traumatic brain injuries sustained through repeated head impacts, RHI, and repeated blast exposure, RBE, for our men and women who serve in the armed forces. We talk about traumatic encephalopathy syndrome and chronic traumatic encephalopathy, CTE, and we cover how traumatic brain injuries can and will cause mental health issues, brain health issues such as depression, addiction, lack of executive function, memory loss, even suicide ideation, as well as degenerative neurological issues. And our, our mantra is how to cope and find hope, and we focus our energy on finding therapies and sharing hope through education and by raising awareness. Please like, subscribe, share, and I know I'm missing a couple things, Corey. Follow, comment, review. Thank you. Do whatever you can to help us push
the narrative of repeated head impacts is not good for the brain.
Absolutely. So- I love that ... so Paul,
th- I think on today's episode I wanna talk about let's get in the weeds a little bit. Let's talk about dementia, neur- all the neurodegenerative diseases that are associated with repeated head impacts. Now, we know that CTE is a tauopathy.
It's associated with the sport of football, but I also wanna make sure that we discuss other sports and occupations that involve RHI and RBE. I mean, let's talk about boxing, hockey, rugby, soccer, rodeo, military blast exposure, and other activities involving repeated head trauma cases.
Cases of CTE after autopsy include every one of these activities. Every one has been documented to have a CTE case.
Hmm. But
the domestic violence as well. Did you s- did you mention that as well? No, I don't think I did.
How- So- How- Yeah, go ahead ... engaging in al- engaging in all of these sports and occupations, as well as domestic abuse,
it's... I mean, what was it, the 1920s punch drunk? Is that when the first
thing came out? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, I, yeah, I believe it was the late '20s or, or, you know, the thir- or the '30s. But, uh, um, you know, what did they call it? Uh, punch drunk, uh, pugilistic, pu- pugilism, that was the, the term that they named it, um, way, way back then. Uh, and the, the, the, the, the, the DoD actually had some information about repeated head impacts or, or repeated blast exposures in like as early as the 1940s.
So
we've, you know, we've known a long, long time that-
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... that, that the repeated, uh, head impacts and replated b- repeated blast exposures are not good for our brain health.
And, um, you know, I, I know we normally talk about CTE,
but, um... A- and we know, I th- think we, I think we know a lot about CTE simply because, um, it's football related, and this,
and I don't know, is, is America's pa- favorite pastime sport still baseball- Rodeo ... or is it- Rodeo ... rodeo? Well, the, the ro- America's most American sport is rodeo, I would say that. But no, you could, you could make an argument. I'm not gonna stop you, that's for sure. Anyway, so, you know, we, we, we always associate the CTE with the, with football, you know, and the NFL. Uh, well, uh, and let, let's back up.
W- what is the age of the youngest, uh, re-
The youngest kid,
um, diagnosed with CTE, Corey?
Well, Jul- Dr. Julia Manning, is it? Came on our pod-
Koffler
Or Koffler.
Yeah.
Julia Koffler came on and told us that the youngest she had is 15.
Yeah.
So, and I know for a fact that several rodeo cowboys have been diagnosed with CTE, and some of them very high ranking. But in our community, they don't wanna spread the word, they don't wanna talk the truth, kind of like football. They don't wanna spread the word, they don't wanna talk the truth. And probably like rugby and soccer and all the other sports and probably military,
you know? But in all of these, I mean, we gotta get beyond this and get to talking about... CTE, you gotta die.
I'm not ready-
Mm-hmm
... to die.
Right, to get-
You know
... diagnosed definitively.
Right. Right. I don't wanna die to get my diagnosis, you know? But all the other degenerative diseases that come into play is an important key factor that I think a lot of people are missing.
Mm-hmm.
That you bang your head, you can get, what are they? Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, ALS. I mean-
Yeah
... you, you know. Talk about it.
Well, you j- you talking about, so the- they just came out with the study that
ALS,
um, is actually four times more prevalent in
football players, NFL players, than the general public. And that was, that was big news because Chris, uh, was it Johnson?
Mm-hmm.
Chris Johnson, the, the running back, he, he was just diagnosed, or he just pu- came out publicly about his diagnosis of ALS, uh, recently. And,
and it's a fact. It's a fact that if you play football, you're four times more likely to come down with ALS. Now,
do you, do, do you think
the, the, the rodeo, the, uh, e- even race car driving, uh, rugby, uh, gymnastics, whatever you can bu- bump your head repeated, repeated, repeated head impacts-
Thousands. Thousands and thousands.
Thousands. Thousands, right.
Now let's cut that because I want people to realize we're just not beating on sports. It takes thousands and thousands of repeated head impacts to really-
Hmm
... dig deep and cause these.
One TBI can screw you up for life.
Well, that's true.
Yeah.
One concussion can give you a post-concussion syndrome.
And you can-
But-
... deal with that for years.
Right, but repeated head impacts, it's not gonna happen in one season.
Right.
I don't think. Maybe, I don't know. But I don't think one season of repeated head impacts or playing football for 16 games is gonna give you CTE. I think it takes thousands.
Thousands of hits, yeah. Yeah. Thousands of re- repeated, uh, head impacts. And, and, and, and they do... I mean, there is good science out that actually says, I, I believe it says, and there's this, this is medically reviewed, um, um, uh, peer reviewed medical journals that, um, the more, the more you play concussive sports, and again, I'm, I'm talking about football because this is what the study was done on, but we can relate it to every one of these sports or ev- domestic violence or every, uh, activity that i- is, is dangerous and includes repeated head impacts. But it, it's, it's a fact-
Jet skis
... that...
Yeah, jet- jets- jet skis. Uh, which we also talked about the, um, the, uh, military, the, the Navy guys that drive the, the-
SWCC operators
... the SWCC operators. You know? They, they said we, we saw at the Mac Parkman, um, foundation event last year, just, uh, this past summer or this past spring, that the SWCC o- operator had the, one of the worst cases of CTE that they, they had ever seen.
So, so we, we wanna just,
you know, we wanna focus on, on the fact that repeated head impacts and
s- exposure, repeated blast exposure can, and i- it's proven to increase your,
um, the probability of coming down with like the big three, the Alzheimer's, the Parkinson's, the AL- ALS.
Um,
Yeah, so let's break-
And so did the, the-
Let's break down the big three, and put it
Yeah
... Alzheimer's disease, a repeated head trauma appears to increase the risk of dementia later in life. However, Alzheimer's and CTE are di- different diseases and, and some people have both. But let's break them down. I mean,
I know a radio- a radiologist,
or not a ra- a do- doctor that reads the radiology, whatever you call that, a radiologist, ain't it?
Right. Right, yep.
That has Alzheimer's. Never played football, never played a contact sport, but there was Alzheimer's in his family.
Right.
We're talking-
Right
... people like what Brett Favre discussed, that Parkinson's, and no Parkinson's ever in his family, no history of it. All of a sudden, out of nowhere-
Mm-hmm
... Brett got it.
And he said it comes by what? Two ways, food or repeated head impacts.
Right.
And we-
Spon- spontaneously without a history, uh, or a gene- or genetics or a h- history in the family, right. Yeah, food, food or food exposure, chemicals, or, uh,
or, uh, repeated head impacts. Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
So I mean,
you look at it, Parkinson's disease, multiple
studies suggest increased risk among former contact sport athletes,
though the increase is generally smaller and less consistent than for CTE.
I mean, we just talked about Brett Favre. I've got pre-Parkinson's. What do they call that? Parkinsonisms?
Par- Parkinson, yeah, Parkinsonisms apparently, yeah.
Yeah, I have that.
Yeah.
And there's never-
Mm-hmm
... been any Parkinson's in my family.
Wow, right.
Right.
You know? I mean,
hell, let's bring it up, Paul. I'm going off script huge.
Huge.
Yeah.
I'm going to right field.
Okay.
We'll come back to left field, but I'm going to right field.
I'll be the cutoff, so i- if, if you want to throw the ball to the catcher, make sure you throw it over my head. Go ahead.
Okay.
Talk, talk to me.
Not only are we talking about neurodegenerative diseases-
Right
... but let's talk about the athlete heart.
Oh.
Repeated head compacts and being an athlete also affects your heart. And you know, I always was proud. Yeah, I got an athlete's heart. Mine's enlarged a little bit. I'm, me got big heart. Ugh, I'm all heart,
you know? Well, now I got an aortic aneurysm, and
you got AFib, and a buddy of ours that is a rodeo champion has just got a pacemaker put in, and-
Right
... he, so I mean, this is a lot more than just neurodegenerative. This is
... Well, how many of us old rodeo cowboys, I guarantee you if you rodeo, this is the difference between rodeo and football, and I'm not making jokes here.
Right, right, right.
How many retired rough stock riders or even timed eventers
have had five, six, seven, eight, 10 surgeries?
This episode of the Head Rush Podcast is brought to you by the Patrick Rysia CTE Awareness Foundation. Their goal is the, to spread awareness about the dangers of RHI, repetitive head impacts, after losing their son, Patrick, to CTE. Sadly, there are too many like Patrick that have lost their families, jobs, and sometimes their lives, and this foundation is working hard to stop the devastation then c- that can come from not protecting the brain. This foundation provides parents of school-aged children with information about the dangers of sports, concussive sports, and activities which involve head trauma.
They advertise on social media, print media, and billboards. Please follow them on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok, and share their ads with others. And please visit their website, stopcte.org, to find ways to help people recognize the disease if confronted with it in their family, and how to prevent the suffering that can come to families when a brain is damaged. The website has medical forms to take to doctor's visits, and advocacy letters if you want to help make change in your community. And their most recent campaign is geared up to help coaches build brain healthy teams. You can use the information on stopcte.org website to understand CTE, live with CTE, and prevent CTE. Please visit. Thank you. And don't knock it-
Stop c-
There you go
... stopcte.org.
Hmm.
Yeah.
How many NFL players have had that many surgeries? You know?
I know a lo- I know a lot that have had a lot of surgeries, but personally, I've had one surgery. Albeit it was a, a, it was a pretty extreme one with the lower lumbar L5, L5, S1, and I foolishly played 40 days after. But anyway, but, but I, I get it. You, you, you g- you've, you've had what? Nine surgeries? How, how many surgeries have you had?
Four, five, seven, eight, nine, 10. I think I'm on 11 or 12, and I'm getting ready to go in for another one.
Yeah. Well, I, I would, I mean, to, to your point, to your point, I mean, you guys abuse your bodies, and
you, you not only abuse them to the point where you injure yourselves, then you get back on the freaking horse the next week or the next, you know, two days later in another rodeo, and you freak- you ride again. I, I was, uh,
although, but, but, and you, and you probably didn't get a shot of Toradol. Did they give you-
No
... Toradol when... No?
We don't have doctors.
Oh. So, so my, my experience-
We get ice packs.
So my experience, Corey, was, "Doc, two hours, two hours b- before the game, I've got to bend over and throw the snap the ball between my legs and back to the punter 14 and a half yards, right?" So I've gotta have- I've gotta be limber and be able to, you know, get, get up and down, and my back, sciatic was so bad I couldn't even, I couldn't even bend, bend, bent and touch my knees. So I said, "Doc, Doc, I gotta, I gotta have something. Give, give, give me something." He says, "What are you talking about?" I said, "Well, m- my back's hurting you, h- hurting me." And he says, "Your back? I can't do that. What are you talk- we haven't even evaluated it." "Doc, you know I gotta play." And, uh, he got- I got a shot of Toradol, and I had a great game. I had a great game. And then when the Toradol wo- wore off 18 hours later, I couldn't even get out of bed, so
anyway.
You know what we say?
What?
If you don't wake up in pain, you're dead.
Oh.
Yeah.
I mean, in rodeo season, once April, April comes around, you're hurting till December.
Yeah. You're already...
I don't know. I mean, I can't imagine the wrists, the, the forearms, the biceps, the shoulders, the, the neck, the... You get kicked. Oh my gosh, the ribs.
Yeah. Well-
I've been kicked in the head by a horse, so I mean, yeah. Okay, so that was my little spiel because we're going through this hard issue with you and with me and now with a buddy of mine.
Oh.
I just thought I'd throw that in there.
Well-
But let's get back to what is ALS?
Um-
Now you got a good friend-
Yeah
... that you played football with that has-
Yes
... ALS. Green, right? Tim Green?
Tim, Tim Green, yep. Yep.
Tell, tell me a little bit about-
He's got the-
... ALS, what it is and what it all... What it is.
So I, I wish I knew the, the, the...
It, it, it's very, it's a fast-attacking, they call it an amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, ALS. And it's, it was, uh, made popular by, uh, Lou Gehrig. They call it Lou Gehrig's disease.
Um, and, and, uh, there, there's basically I understand there's two levels of ALS you, you can contract. One,
you have about an 18-month, after diagnosis you have about a- an 18-month lifespan. You have 18 months to live to get your af- affairs in order.
And the second one, uh, you, you remember that the brilliant, uh, astrophysicist, scientific whatever he was, Stephen Hawking?
Yeah.
And he was in a wheelchair. He had ALS as well, and that was a s- uh, that was a, a, a branch of the ALS that you can live until you're 80 years old. Um, obviously you have to have 24-hour care. Um, you have to have, uh, you know, people working on you and bathing you and cleaning you and such- suctioning you and all, all sorts of things. Um, now my, uh, my friend and I played football with him in, at Syracuse, and he was a, he was a number one pick to the Atlantic Falcons, and he played for seven or eight years, and then he went on to... He's written, like, 40-something books, and he's had New York Times bestsellers, and, uh, and, uh, he was, uh, he was, uh, an, an announcer for the NFL, and then he was an announcer for Entertainment Tonight, and then he did, he's done so many things, uh, throughout his life. And all of a sudden about, um, eight, eight years ago, eight or nine years ago, he started, um, having problems with his hand
and his fingers. So the- they, uh, uh, initially they were saying, "Okay, maybe your tendons are so tight." I think they loosened a couple of the tendons up, but shortly after they diagnosed him with ALS, and he kept it very, very quiet for quite a while. Um, we're talking about, you know, uh, and, and Tim,
very powerful story and, and, and I, I, I, I suggest very highly if you wanna, if anyone wants to check out research on ALS and, and check out, um, his, uh, his, uh, podcast, uh, uh, Nothing Left Unsaid. I think that, that, that's the podcast. But he actually speaks with his eyes. He literally looks at a screen and he spells a word or he picks a word what he wants to say. And
before...
ALS is so...
It's, it's, it's, uh, it's, it's, it's a terrible, terrible disease to the point where you l- you literally can't breathe on your own, you can't talk, you can't eat, you can't, you can't even move. You can't move, you can't raise your hands, you can't turn your h- I mean, you literally, you cannot move your body and your extremities. So he's been in a wh- wheelchair for probably six years. Six years. And man, um, I've, I've been fortunate enough to visit with him a couple times u- up in Syracuse and, uh, he's, he's, he's written two books
since he was... It's almost like a paralytic state. He's written two books with his eyes, Look At Choosing The Words. Uh, I, I think one of 'em became a best seller. Um, he's... And he actually has... He's got f- three or four children, and he's got, like, eight or nine grandchildren already, and he's up there at Lake Skaneateles in Syracuse. And, uh, he, he really, I- I- he really has a powerful testimony of his faith and, um, and his, uh, uh, love of family. And but he's still, he's living, you know. Um, he's, he's living. He- he's, he's, he's not getting ready to die. He's actually living his, you know, his best life and, uh, anyway. Yeah.
So with them saying, and, you know, that's a heartbreaking story about Tim. I've watched his podcast. Well, you were on, on it when I watched it.
Mm.
And, you know, but they say four times likely due to repeated head impacts.
Or concussions.
Do you know any other players that have it that you're, that's open about it or that you know of?
Uh, not-
You don't have to mention names, but do you know of any?
Not personally, not guys that I played with. Um, but one, one guy that Tim played with, he, he was a... No, the, uh, there w- he played in the same era. Um, um, he played for the, uh, uh, Saints, New Orleans Saints. Um, didn't, uh, uh, m- not McMahon, but the, the, uh, defensive lineman from the Chicago Bears, he just passed away of it. Um-
Mitty?
Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, and there, there's an- and, and then Chris Johnson was just diagnosed, you know. He was, he was one of the better running backs in the league when he played.
Right.
Yeah. And, uh-
So-
Well, and, and the, and the interesting thing is
the e- c- concussion and CTE Foundation up at Boston University,
every... So they, they are the ones that put out the research you're four times more likely to come down with ALS if you play in the NFL, you play- you played professional football.
And which is strictly due to, well, you, you can correlate it to repeated head impacts period, from, from my perspective, um, and, and mo- most o- other per- perspectives. But, um, interestingly, of the
six, five or six guys that have passed on and they had ALS when they died, they died with AL- ALS,
and they, uh, their families donat- donated their brains to research. Every, all five or six, I don't know the number, but all five or six actually had CTE as well.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. And-
And one meta-analysis found professional soccer players had about an, what, an eightfold higher mortality from motor neuron disease, including ALS, than the general population?
Yeah. That's, that's pretty, that's pretty damning,
um, uh, that I mean-
And I guess did you watch the America-Belgium game?
No.
It's the only game I've ever watched of soccer in my life.
Right.
I've never watched it.
Did, did you enjoy it?
I actually did. What I enjoyed more is we, you know, because of it being FIFA, and we're in Texas, and it's a main hub here, well, I was like, "You know, I wanna watch this Belgium game in Seattle." And so we were watching it.
Yeah.
And it was funny because I've never played soccer. I don't know nothing about soccer. I couldn't tell you a forward from a back from a tackle to whatever to-
Right
... a goalie. I couldn't even tell you what... The only thing I know is that they hit a soccer ball. Um,
but it was funny because I'm sitting next to my wife, and you can hear, "Oh, oh, go, go, go. Yes!" And I'm like-
"Really? We've never watched this a day in our life, and you're this excited?" It was kinda cool because it is such a thing for...
I felt very patriotic. I mean, we-
Yeah
... we were watching it, and it was in Seattle, and they're
going, "USA, USA." And you're sitting there going, "This is Seattle, people."
Yeah.
This is Antifa land. I mean, how, wow, this is awesome. I love it.
Yeah.
You know. Um, but and then reading that on the meta-analysis I was like, "Holy crap."
Yeah.
Eightfold higher mortality from neuro neuron disease, including ALS.
Right. So-
Now, do they... Uh, how do they get it?
I mean, I'm sure that doesn't happen because you're running up and down the field.
No. There's a lot of collisions in soccer.
Oh, dude.
And-
Dude
... and, and h- and how many, and how many... I mean, we, we've, uh, heard of, um,
practices. They used to practice heading the ball I don't know-
100 times
... uh, 100 times a day type of thing, or 50 times a day, or we've heard-
Yeah, something like that.
Yeah, we've heard things like that. And every... And I remember when I was coaching my daughter, she was six years old, and, uh, I was coaching her in soccer, and one of the girls, or I don't know, they, she threw the ball at me and I headed it. And I was like, "Ah, that hurts." I got like a headache from heading the ball. It w- uh, and, and it wasn't, I wasn't going 40 miles an hour off of somebody's foot.
And, uh-
Well, and I saw a video,
they called it the double header. I saw it yesterday, and the guy kicked the ball, and it-
Yeah
... hit the guy in the head.
This episode of the Head Rush podcast is brought to you by our personal doctor and team of doctors, uh, Dr. Miz- Mizell DeMaio, and she's with the Paradise Behavioral Health, and we are in the Brain Well program, which is also part of the Millennium Health Center. Uh, Dr. Mark Gordon, you've seen him on Joe Rogan and even on our show, the Head Rush podcast. Um,
and, uh, hormones. And Mizell is awesome. We love her.
She's, she's our doctor of psychiatry. She works for the Mark Gordon program with the hormones, and, uh, and she j- she adds her twist of genetics and, um, and it's, it's, it basically is melding two wonderful, uh, uh, mediums together, and we're getting great help from Dr. Mizell DeMaio.
So please check out her website at paradisebehavioral.com.
She's-
Look up the Brain Well program. Get involved. She-
She's sponsoring us. They're, they're sponsoring us for the next year, so we are excited to, to have them on board, and, uh, and, and shout the ne- the good news to everybody, uh, uh, th- that is watching these broadcasts, so.
Is she helping you, Paul?
Absolutely. Absolutely.
She's helping me, so go check her out, paradisebehavioralhealth.com.
When he kicked it, it hit him in the head, and he went down, and the ball went about three foot away and hit another person in the head, and they went down, and I'm like, "Holy cow." That's worse than Paul getting hit by freaking Dickerson.
Well, and you're, uh, I think it, I think the worst thing is you're, you're ready, you're ready to, you know, to hit something like, somebody like Eric Dickerson, and, uh, but you, you get a ball, you know, kicked off your head, you know, you don't have much time to react, you know?
No.
So, and, and that whi- I mean, that side-to-side whiplash is probably is just as dangerous as the front to back.
Well, even in the Belgium game, I mean, them heads came this far away from each other trying to head it into the net, and I'm sitting there going, "Dude."
Yeah.
That would be like a major h- head-to-head impact if they would've connected.
Yeah.
So, I mean, that, but that shocked me, the eight-fold higher mortality. That shocked me.
Mm-hmm. Well, and, and, and I actually was just scrolling, uh, um, which I rarely do. I literally was looking at, um, uh, Facebook, um, and Concussion and CTE Foundation up in Boston University actually came out with a study,
and, uh, it, it's right along these lines that, uh, th- neurodegenerative, uh, diseases, uh, affect
f- four times greater affect, uh, football players, and that, that was a study from 20,000 NFL players.
20,000 NFL players. So, so we're, we're talking about, so overall, and then those were the neurodegenerative diseases that, uh... And I, uh, we're calling it the br- big three for lack of a better term right now, but, you know, the Parkinsonisms, the, the, uh, Alzheimer's, the ALS, and neurodementia, you know, um, i- i- accelerated, you know-
Well, and now let's put the,
let's put, put it down on paper that the reason
everything is related to football because that's the most circled sport of collective participants that they-
Right
... can get that knows that have contact, collision.
You know, a lineman, you're gonna get hit.
Mm-hmm.
A running back gonna get hit. A quarterback, well, nowadays you're gonna get a pat on the back and say good job.
Mm-hmm.
But you look at it, put this across all sports. I mean, they can't open and do a study of all concussive sports because there're so many that I think it would get skewed.
Mm-hmm.
But if you just put that in terms, 20,000-
Mm
... NFL participants in that study.
Right.
Hell, I didn't even know there was 20,000 NFL members. Um-
And I think-
... 20,000 participants, so how many soccer players are there?
I'm not sure. I'm not sure.
How many rodeo cowboys are there? How many rugby players? How many-
Rugby players, yeah
... of all the contact sports across the board, so we're talking millions.
Yes. Oh, yeah.
Millions
that are at a higher mortality for dementia, higher mortality for Alzheimer's, for Parkinson's, for ALS, for all the neurodegenerative diseases. You know how many cowboys I know
that had dementia in their older years?
And they never correlated it with
repeated head impacts-
Right
... or got Parkinson's or Alzheimer's or any of that. I mean,
you put that into any contact sport,
you're gonna get the increase. So when we talk about CTE, that's the golden grail, the big umbrella of everything
that's due to repeated head impacts. But
if you're a parent out there and you're listening to this podcast, and I hope you are,
that
we're no longer just talking about CTE.
Hmm.
We're talking about Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, dementia. We're talking about all these other diseases that are affected by repeated head impacts.
Yeah.
So knowing that, hell, let's throw CTE out the window. Bing, it's gone.
Hmm.
Would you, would you want your daughter to play soccer at seven years old until she was through college?
Hmm. No.
No. No.
Now, if they eliminated headers
and everything-
Yeah
... until high school, maybe.
Maybe.
Yeah.
And CTE ain't even a thing right now.
Mm-hmm.
Just the, what we just read,
the eightfold mortality-
Right
... of your daughter getting Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, or dementia,
I would not put my daughter on a soccer field at six, seven years old.
So some form of a, a motor neuron disease.
And yeah, I... No, no, I wouldn't, especially if they're heading the ball.
Right.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
That's a game changer right there.
So-
That's a game changer right there. I mean, you... That, that just eliminates the whole game-changing aspect. I mean,
now we're not even talking about CTE. Now we're just talking about stuff that'll disable you the rest of your life.
Mm-hmm.
Well, if they took heading o- if they took heading out of soccer,
at least until college,
I mean, that, that makes the game safer.
Right.
That, that, that lowers the imp- And, and a- and again, we're talking s- again, we've heard 50 times a, a, a day, you know, practicing heading the ball. I mean, th- th- they, they got most of their, you know, these soccer players get most of their
repeated head impacts f- through practice if they're heading the ball, you know, practicing heading the ball 50 times.
Um, so I mean-
Well, and, and even by eliminating headers, the fact that you're gonna get a ball kicked in your head
five feet away,
I would be okay with that.
Right.
Well-
Because then she got a concussion, but now she's out for the year because she got a concussion, 'cause I'm not gonna let her get second impact syndrome.
Right, which, which can be dire. It can, it, it can be so dire you can actually die from-
Die
... you can actually die from it, yeah.
Yeah.
And I've had second impact syndrome. You've had second impact syndrome.
I don't know. I- probably not as much as you, because you, you'd, you'd get back on a horse, uh, within days.
Well-
Yeah.
You got your bell rung and played three quarters.
Oh.
How many second impact syndromes was that?
A lot.
Yeah.
In one game.
So you say not as many as me, you see the color purple in the first quarter, you're still bonking your head in the fourth quarter. That's second impact-
Mm-hmm
... syndrome. That's third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh. I mean, that's-
Does that, does that, does that make a, a- an NFL player tougher or just stupider? More stupid.
Well, you know, the problem is is I don't think it makes them stupid or tough. I think what it makes us is just uneducated.
Yeah. Well, that's-
You as a professional NFL player making $55,000 a year when you got drafted... Oh, let's do the heyday. When you signed your contract for, what, 2.5 million?
No, 1.45 million over three years.
Okay, your 1.45 million over three years that you only got paid for one season of.
Right.
Let's do that in the heyday.
That was your highlight.
Yeah.
You get down on the field, you get your bell rung on the first quarter.
Knowing what you know now,
would you have still played that whole game?
No, no, no, if it... No. If I, if, if I had known that, uh, the, the damage that I was... If I had known the, the, the possible
shearing of the axons and the, the, the, the, the neurons that I was damaging and the white matter that I was damaging and-
A- and what are... There, there are so many, like the, the neurovascular yada, yada. I've heard, uh, Bruce Parkman talk about, uh, s- some of the, uh,
damages that we do to our brain. Gosh. Some of the-
Well, you think about it. We got a friend that we both know. I'm not mentioning names.
He's trying to go see Tanner.
Yeah.
He's got white matter disease.
Mm-hmm.
How do you think he got it?
Age?
Not this, not in his case.
No. Yeah.
You know, it's ... But they don't, it doesn't register with people.
You know? Hey, by the way, the celebrity softball game we're doing September 12th.
Yes.
Have you been watching The Confirmed?
No. No, well, you ... Uh, well, I think Jim McMahon is one of the guys coming back. He, he's, he's been a guest there before.
Oh, dude, we got-
Ter-
Terrell Owens.
Yeah, Terrell Owens. Is, is it Terrell or Terrell? I think it's Terrell, ain't it?
Oh. It's Ri- I think it's Terrell, yes.
I don't ... I'm n- I'm just gonna call him Mr. Owens.
Okay.
You can call him whatever you want, but I'm gonna call him Mr. Owens 'cause I don't wanna get beat up.
Um, hold on. Let me get this. I wanna bring this to everyone's attention, because me and Paul got invited to play softball, and it's a celebrity softball game in Frisco, Texas on September 12th, and it's to raise funds for veterans and warriors and other stuff. Let me look it up here.
Celebrity
Softball Classic.
And, uh,
your number's 91. Mine's gonna be 99.
Mm-hmm.
Um-
99, uh, bumps on the head?
That's it. That's why I picked it.
Um, Phil Coke, New York Yankees.
Um, Bonnie-Jill Laflin, sportscaster-
Mm-hmm
... for the NBA. Jim McMahon,
Rocker Steiner, world champion bareback rider. Rocker Steiner is confirmed.
Really?
Yeah.
Very cool. All right.
He just had a neck fusion, by the way.
How, how old is he? Do you know him?
Uh, 21, and no, I don't know him.
Oh, young kid.
Yeah.
Neck fusion at freaking 21? Oh my gosh.
Welcome to rodeo, man.
Yeah.
We build them hard and we make them last long.
Yeah. Yeah.
Uh, Noah-
Sew it, saw him up
... Noah Syndergaard from the LA Dodgers.
Okay.
Uh,
Paul Frey-
Yeah
... from the Green Bay Packers and New York Jets. Um, The Doc, the musician, The DOC.
Yeah.
I don't know him. Do you know him?
No, I don't.
But I mean, so it's gonna be Jim McMahon, the foot... Uh, Mike Dempsey, who's been on our podcast-
Yeah
... is in it.
Yeah.
So I mean, we're g- there's gonna be a hit list there, people.
Yeah.
And if you go to the website and get your tickets and do all of that, you can do a meet and greet on the field, get on the field with me and Paul and all of us, and, uh,
have a good old time. I just wanna give some love out to Tim Clune on that, because he invited us, and I think we need to give him a shout-out.
Absolutely. Yeah.
But, uh-
They do, they're, he, he does a lot of good, uh, good with the, the funds that he raises, too.
Oh, tremendous. I mean, I wouldn't do it if it wasn't for a great cause, because I'm gonna look like an idiot out there. When's the last time you played baseball?
I tried to hit a softball, uh, about six years ago, and it was at a kids camp that I was working at up in New Hampshire, and they thought, oh, this, the NFL player's gonna hit the ball out of the park, and I had not swung, swung at a baseball or a softball for probably 20 years. And they pitch, they pitch it, and it's slow pitch.
I swung so early that I could have, I could have swung three times and it still missed the ball. It was ridiculous. And I was like ... And then the second pitch, I finally, I forced myself to, I, I s- forced myself to hold that bat, and I finally swung and I hit a ground ball. And ah, so I ... Th- there, there was no reaching for the fence that day. It's-
So if it was a kids camp, how old was the pitcher?
Oh, it w- uh, the pitcher was probably 12, 13 years old. Yeah. Yeah. It was embarrassing. It was embarrassing. And all, all the people thought, uh, you know, the big NFL player was gonna, you know, hit a great g- you know, ball, and everybody was like, "Oh."
Oh, that's hard.
So come out and watch us, because we ain't played softball in forever. I may, when I get back from Mexico, I may go to the batting cages if I'm feeling better.
Yeah, you might, you, you might want to. I, but I'm, I'm telling you. Well, if you're golfing, you, you best go to a batting cage before that day. That, that's for sure. So-
Um, so- As we're closing this thing up, the research has proven-
Mm-hmm
... that there are a number of factors involved with these findings, such as total years of exposure of repeated head impacts, number and severity of impacts, including, including those without diagnosed concussions.
Right. Yeah.
And that's a biggie, because
I think I've only been diagnosed with one TBI when I got kicked in the head.
Mm.
And I was out cold, and they sent me to the hospital.
Right.
And I had a little brain bleed.
Yeah.
But
all my other concussions, when I woke up, I went behind the shoots and then I either went home or I went down the road.
Yeah.
So, I mean, genetics is a huge,
depending on your genetics and your hormones. I'll throw in hormones because-
Some,
some, I mean, some, some people are genetically predisposed to suffer from concussions or repeated head, head impacts worse.
Some, some can take the blows better.
And genetically-
Um-
... maybe they can't do the dopamine spikes.
E- e- exact- I mean, y- there, there, it, it might be due to neuroplasticity, you know? The BDNF, the brain-derived neurotrophic factor. If you're h- I, I've un- I understand, you know, through our, our, uh, doctor, d- uh, Mizel DeMayo, um, our doctor of psychology or psychiatry, she, she, uh, tests the BDNF, and she says, uh, low BDNF means that you do not respond to concussions or repeated head impacts very well. And th- and that's, that's du- that's, that's the chemical, uh, you know, of the neuroplasticity, the way your brain can actually repair or grow new dendrites or grow new channels,
so on and so forth.
Right.
Yeah.
And so age when exposure begun.
Big, big. That's one, that's the big thing that we talk about, Corey, because age, age when exposure began. So- If you or someone you love is living with Parkinson's, MS, or symptoms associated with CTE, this is worth knowing. Ambio Life Sciences offers a novel alternative medicine called Ibogaine and operates the only Ibogaine clinic in the world for people with neurodegenerative disorders.
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Little Johnny or jumps on a sheep or what do you, whatever you guys call it that you throw these seven-year-olds on.
Mutton busting.
The mutton busting, or L- little Johnny the sheep.
And we do it a lot. By seven, they're riding bigger animals, dude.
What?
We're talking, we're talking three, four-year-olds.
Really?
Yeah.
Well, you, well,
and then, and then you talk, you know, you talk about little Johnny or little Susie now, I mean, because they probably let the, the, the younger girls play, you know, tackle football in the Peewee leagues.
Their brain is not developed.
The prefrontal cortex doesn't develop until your 20s, your late 18s, le-
Age, age-
Yeah
... when exposure begun.
Yeah.
How old were you when your first exposure to repeated head impacts?
In sports or anything? Because-
Anything
... well, I had two older brothers, and, and, you know, basketball-
So you got mucked out
... b- basketballs off the, off the head.
Um-
You got mucked out as a kid.
I got, I got a tire thrown at me one time.
You got mucked out, just like I did.
Yeah.
I got a lot of older brothers. We get mucked out.
Exactly.
And they laugh at us. "Ha, look at Corey. He went boing."
Exactly, yeah.
And then overall cardiovascular, which we just talked about, the athlete heart is not a good thing, and brain health.
Yeah. Well,
but
in the same tone, there's gotta be a, there's gotta be a, a, a equilibrium or a balance, because it is, uh,
uh... exercise is actually good for our brains-
Right
... nowadays.
Oh, exercise.
And-
But I think going out and going jogging or maybe running a marathon is fun.
Well, they say they-
I think-
... new studies are after you're in your 50s or after your 50s, it's not, it's not good to run 26.2, but...
I had a church, one of the youth church pastors went to the Olympics. Terry Smith was one of my-
Uh-huh
... youth pastors, and, uh, he went to the Olympics and did the 26-mile marathon, and he did it in his 50. I guaran-damn-tee you when I turn 50,
I ain't running five miles.
Well, the only reason I ran m- I, I always wanted to run a marathon.
By the time I turned 50, I had not run one, and I said, "Oh, it's too late. The, that, that ship has sailed." And then one of Joshua's peers up in Chicago-
Um, he, uh, the- the- the uncle would get 10 Chicago Marathon bibs and raise money for myotubular myopathy, the- the same disease that my- my son, uh, uh, passed with. Uh, anyway, so I... And he called me, Patrick was his uncle. Patrick called me and he says, uh, "Hey, come on up, Paul, let's raise some money for myotubular myopathy." And I had the most awesome time running the Chicago Marathon. At 6:30 in the morning you're standing in corrals, like with the metal, the metal stand- the stands that block you off. They call them corrals, and there's like 25 of them. Or I'm- I'm in H.
I was so slow I was all the way back to H. Uh, and I, and I got to run my first marathon. It was flat, 1.2 million people standing around yelling for you. I had one guy at 16 miles, he was yelling positive stuff to- to everybody, "Hey, you're gonna make it, you're so close, come on." And he stops, and he's silent, and he- he sees me,
and I'm about 10 feet away from him, and he says,
"Hey, old gray-haired guy, you're gonna make it. You're gonna make it . Hang on. Hang in there." It was... I started laughing. It actually helped me in the, uh, you know, the last-
Did you make the 26 miles?
Yeah, I crossed the finish line five minutes before they officially closed the course.
That works.
But I-
I would have never made it. At 50 years old my knees are shot, my shoulders are shot. I-
Yeah
There ain't no... I mean, when we get to the softball game, if I even get a hit, wait until you see me run to first base. It's gonna be like, "Run, Forest, run!"
And hopefully the metal-
Yeah, if-
... falls off and then I remember how to get there.
Yeah.
Yeah. It was, it was quite an experience, and I- I- I- I'm- I relished the fact that I got to do it, you know. And I- I-
Oh, for myotubular myopathy-
Yeah
... absolutely. I mean-
Yeah
... that's for your son. I mean, that's- that's a gift that keeps giving, just thinking about it-
Yeah
... and talking about it.
Yeah, that was pretty cool.
So in conclusion, at the Head Rush Podcast we believe that education is the key to lower rates of CTE, and we know that our young children don't need to be experiencing repeated head impacts at seven years old. Why, Paul? Why don't we believe a seven-year-old ought to be hitting their head?
Well, the- the- the- the medical thing is the myelin sheath is not protecting the axons of the neurons until their f- the late teens or 20s. But, but the fact of the matter is there is no safe age to play concussive sports, and CTE,
and CTE is probably, you can probably say it's the only neurodegenerative disease that y- you can actually, um,
pro- not m- not prohibit or, uh, you- you can... Oh.
Prevent.
Thank you. Lord.
That was a CTE mo- No, that was a repeated head impact moment.
RHI moment. Plug.
RHI. R- RHI. There's no safe p- uh, age to actually play concussive sports. People, plea- please educate yourself on how to reduce the risk of
brain, uh,
brain damage in- in your concussive sports. Please choose your teams wisely. Please choose your coaches wisely. Please choose the leagues that are not hitting as much. Um,
hopefully some of these leagues are taking hitting right out of the game, uh, except for games and... I don't know. There's- there's- there's a lot, there's a lot to be said for lowering the, uh, repeated head impacts of our children period. Save- save a life, save a brain.
Oh, slogan.
Save a life, save a brain. Save a, save a brain, save a life.
Slogan. Plug.
T-shirt moment. Save a brain, save a life.
Cory. Cory, you wanna end this with a word of hope?
There's always hope in this world.
Mm.
For Democrats, Independent, Republican, Conservative, for RHI, for CTE, for-
Mm
... someone diagnosed with cancer.
Right.
There's always hope,
but you gotta do the research, you gotta find it, and you gotta find the right team,
the right doctors that understand where your hope is. And the biggest word of hope for me
is Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior.
Mm.
That's my biggest hope.
Amen. Amen.
Because even if I don't make it, I'm going to heaven.
Amen.
And here lately with all this heart stuff and brain stuff, Crystal's been real mad at me because fam- famous words, and if you don't know the words you ain't a dude.
If he dies, he dies
He, he dies.
Oh, Lord.
What movie is that from?
No, I, I, I, I don't remember.
Oh, dude, you're gonna have to wear a skirt. Rocky, man.
Oh.
The Russian.
Oh.
If he dies-
Drago
... he dies.
Drago?
Drago.
Drago. Oh.
Yes. If he dies, he dies.
I just saw him in, in, uh... They, they just had a highlight in, i- in some magazine or so- something. I don't know.
But he's still looking pretty good.
Well, man-
Oh, hell, I'm looking pretty good, and I didn't have to get in the ring with Sylvester Stallone.
But word of hope is-
Yeah
... find the right team. Find the Lord Jesus Christ. Find the right
team around you for your foundations, your support-
Mm
... your, your whole wellbeing, no matter what you're battling in life.
Mm. Amen. Amen. Well said.
Find the right team, and then go do ibogaine.
I hope-
I'm three weeks away, dude
... I hope you, I hope you get to do that, and I hope it's gonna be a, a, a, an exciting, special journey. And-
Well, I promise you one thing, I am not gonna get it tattooed on my thighs.
No, thank you. You, you can do, uh, each finger. I... What? I, B,
O, G, whatever.
And since we're talking about this, I am still medically cleared to go do ibogaine. I talked to the medical-
Yeah
... doctor yesterday, Dr.
Torres.
Had a long talk with Nicole Tracy at, uh, Ambio, and I am still medically cleared. On the other side of things, Paul is not medically cleared due to his AFib. What did Dr. Torres say?
Well, I have the... So, uh, I have the type of AFib that it's not ventricle, but the ibogaine can actually trigger, um, ventricle, uh, uh, palpitations, which could actually throw me into AFib. And
in a ventricle, ventricular AFib is the dangerous widowmaker type of situation. And, uh, they... And when you... Under ibogaine, they, uh, the, some of the drugs they cannot use to bring control back to your heart rhythm, and it's very, very difficult while under the influence of the medicine, the plant-based medicine, to actually control the heart.
So that, uh, that's what they were concerned about, and they were... And, and quite frankly, they're, they're probably gonna be the leaders in the world to, uh, administer, um, uh, during clinical trials. I mean, hope- hopefully clinical trials are, are start, we- will start to pop up in late 2026, early 2027, uh, so they can study ibogaine safely. And, and, um, um, Ambio is, is, is the probably the world's leader in administering,
uh, plant-based medicine slash ibogaine. Um, and they've, they've had a very good safety record. So
the doctor, so-
Well, and that's the thing, th- that's the thing I wanna bring up, is you gotta realize this ain't going to Costa Rica and doing ayahuasca. This ain't going to some retreat. When you go to Ambio, who's sponsoring us,
when you go to Ambio, they turned down one of the guys they sponsored because they did not feel it would be safe for him to do it.
They are not-
Mm
... one of the hippy-dippy-dippy retreats that say, "Hey, yeah, we'll take you no matter what." They...
When I get down there, they're taking me to the cardiologist to get triple checked-
Mm
... before I even go on my journey. So I mean-
Right
... I... They do their due diligence. When I talked to Nicole yesterday, she said they have a cardiac ICU there at the house that they've never needed to use.
Because-
So Dr. Torres does the research, does the homework, reads everything, and if there's a question mark, "Sorry, you ain't coming."
Right. Yeah, they're, they're, they, they know the, uh, if the risk is too great, they will... They know there's a,
there, there's a limit, l- uh, a limit to who can do it, you know, what con- conditions people have that will keep them from doing it. So
bottom line is they're, they, they are, uh, safe. They, they keep their, um, their practice very safe
and, uh, very secure, so.
And you can do that by going to ambio.life.
Look.
And you do that, and so...
But we got some news coming out here shortly about what Ambio's also gonna be doing with the Head Rush Podcast. We're not ready to announce yet. We're not gonna go there yet, but there are some good things coming up with the Head Rush Podcast and Ambio Life Sciences. So-
Absolutely
... um-
So stay tuned-
Stay alive
... for that information, and stay alive
Stay alive.
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