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Discover how clean air can affect the quality process for you and the workplace from world leading experts.
We find out how controlling air can bring benefits to production plants and facilities, the health of people who work there, and bringing greater efficiencies to your final product.
We're also joined by experts from Camfil, a world leader in the development and production of air filters and clean air solutions, on what they are doing to keep air clean and safe.
Jayant Kaushal 0:00
We try to eat good food to make sure that we remain healthy. We try to drink good water. So why not air?
Dusty Rhodes 0:41
Hello and welcome to Let's Talk clean air and our special mini series on cam Phil's new global network of Chief ergonomic officers. My name is Dusty Rhodes. Joining us today are two of the new ergonomics officers from within Camfil in Asia, who are sharing how visceral is developing in real life, along with some of the ups and downs that they have experienced so far. Firstly, we have Gerald kachelle, who is based in Singapore. Jana is Vice President of Business Development for Camfil Asia Pacific, and also takes a lead in promoting global standard ISO 16 890 And your event in the region. And from Shanghai, we have chancing also known as Sam, who works as a product manager with council China and also participates in the preparation of other national and group standards. Guys, you are both welcome. Thank you for joining us on the podcast. I'll start with Jan's a giant, you are both very, very experienced in the business of clean air. So why have you volunteered specifically to be an ergonomics officer?
Jayant Kaushal 1:53
Well, that's a very good question. So I personally, when I joined the company, I was impressed that the office when I joined the company in the office had the big air cleaner air purifying system, and I was told that company have company has this system so that we can improve the indoor air quality, that impressed me a lot. And that basically made me feel that if I am living in such a nice environment in an office environment, I think I have a role to play to make it to take it to the next level and make other people also understand the importance of it. And from that level, I brought in the air filtration or good air quality into my house into my home. And I see the I see the positive side of it. I think it's a very good thing to do. And we're living in in Asia, which is very much polluted. And bringing indoor air quality to a slightly better level always improve the people's life, the happiness, the mood and and even the health levels.
Dusty Rhodes 2:55
And Sam the same question for you. Why did you personally wants to be an ergonomics officer?
Chen Xin (Sam) 3:03
Yeah, I think F j in the just mentioned the data, the pollution to labour in Asia also. also same thing happened to in China. Nike knows China, there is some kind of haste weather in the quarter season. I think it's important for anyone in the country to know the goodness of good air quality, especially the indoor air quality. But while it's while it going to go through the ergonomic initiatives, that I think it's very exciting for me is that, you know, while we promote our products or our solution to the customer impact the few years that I think it's also necessary for our own employee to low the importance of the air quality. And, you know, while the while the workers in the production line, while they practice while they manufacture are productive, there's some I think most of them they don't know where these products go to and what aid to help for the worker to be a better place. But now with the air column can in action implement implemented that they can see the air quality in the workshop in the office and also they can see our product our product in store in different areas to improve the quality that will be really exciting you know if once you see it or you feel it and for me personally, I think the most exciting part of to be involved in the Aragon clinic initiatives is that while what are the what are all the action or the result will be reflected by the air we will finally breathe in. So that while we will be a proof of what we have done, I think that's the most exciting part.
Dusty Rhodes 4:54
So let me ask you then some about your colleagues in work because this is What I find fascinating about an ergonomics officer in Canfield specifically, you're a world leader, you would think that you already had the cleanest air possible in work. And now, you are an ergonomics officer within the building. Have you found that there is a lot of room to improve?
Chen Xin (Sam) 5:20
Actually, we started the initiative in China from summer this year. And we have four to five months is data gathered. And based on the data analysis that we can say that the most of the workplace, the air quality is very good. Only except the you know, during the production side, there is some process, there might be have some dust or some aerosol generated in that kind of position that we were trying to enhance the air quality with certain equipment and the devices
Dusty Rhodes 5:55
and J out in your own workplace when you were doing measurements, did you find it to be high quality? Or is there room to improve there as well.
Jayant Kaushal 6:03
Luckily, fortunately, I would say in Singapore, we are maintaining very good air quality. And we have been doing regular air quality audit on a yearly basis to make sure the staff in the offices and this has been there historically, for many, many years. And so I think it was the trigger started, when who revised their air quality guidelines in 2021. Were the lower the limit acceptable limit limit for, for example, PM 2.5 by 50%, on the basis of annual mean score, that triggers that Are we maintaining to some degree closer to that level, which is recommended by who their quality guideline. And that's how it started. And we have taken to the level where we want to measure in every premises every facility of Canfield including the factory wherever our staff and workers are working to make sure that first of all we measure and then we try to bring it to the level which is acceptable level by national standard or by who standard. That's how it started, we started measuring it and every every premises
Dusty Rhodes 7:15
I can only imagine that if there is you know room for improvement at a Camfield workplace if you go into any other workplace that the possibility for improvement must be enormous. Both of you have spoken about measurement, is there a simple way of measuring the air quality in a normal workplace down on that?
Jayant Kaushal 7:38
Yes. So we have first of all, we have a number of testing equipments and sensor by which we can actually do proof of concept at customers. And we have a small, I would say visual device to show how clean the environment is. And with the help of and what is the level of filtration they're using. And by using better filtration, how we can improve it. So there's a there's a visual check device with somebody can instal it, run it for about a month or so. And they can visually see the colour of the filter changes to from white to grey or dark grey and black. That's one very basic level to the high tech level of instrument that you can track the dust, you can you can do the particle count, and you actually can measure how to moderate the dust or particle or pollutant level we have in inside the building. Having said that, we also have developed a device which is known as air image, which can be installed plug and play. And you can instal it in a facility where it actually measures the PM 2.5 and pm 10 on a continuously basis and send the signal through the GSM to the cloud, one can download or see the measure on the laptop or a cell phone to see how the things are going up. So that's why we already developed.
Dusty Rhodes 8:57
I think one of the keys of the ergonomics officer campaign with Ken Phil is that almost anybody within a company should be able to step up. And if they are interested, they don't have to have a science degree, or much of a background in it. These tools that you talk about are these that simple when you say plug and play, is that something that I as as a radio presenter could plug in, and then I can leave it for a week and then one week later, I can tell just by the colour of the result whether things are good or bad.
Jayant Kaushal 9:28
You're absolutely right. And that that's what I said we are three levels of instrument. Depending upon customer base, we can leave it and you can No.
Dusty Rhodes 9:36
Sam, let's talk about Asia and China in particular because it's a very industrial country. There's so much going on and so many factories. What would you say is the standard of the condition of air in general in working facilities in China?
Chen Xin (Sam) 9:54
Yeah, I think it depends on the you know, industry is very big word and it covers many different type of plant, you know, while for, honestly for the most a customer of can feel that they are there prefer to have clean air in the, you know, in their workshop in the process. So that's quite common. But still, I guess you know, there is some kind of traditional industry that during the production that are not that good regarding to the standard itself that we have set kind of as the indoor air quality standard, but not only that's usually targeted at to the you know, the the commercial and the air quality in the office or at home, such kind of thing. But regarding to the industrial air quality standard, there is specific for industries where they need a high clean air. But for the normal industry, right now, we don't see that standard. It's just a follow that no more indoor air quality. Yeah.
Dusty Rhodes 11:00
And I can guess that it's the kind of thing which up until a number of years ago, it just was not important for employers. When you're speaking to a business, why is air quality important for a business? Chance? Do you want to answer that DM?
Jayant Kaushal 11:15
Theo, right. The I think the first thing is the awareness level of indoor air quality is not that great. But over a period of time that things have became much much polluted indoor, and we have never realised the importance of it and how to do that. So first, I think the point is awareness and benefit of maintaining good air quality, good indoor air quality. The second thing I can think of is, we don't know that air filters can filter all kinds of pollutants, including the particle and gases, which is also a very important thing for issue. And all these improvements can be done in a sustainable way. There is a belief of feeling or gut feel that if you add something to improve air quality, then we have to spend a lot of money. And it may not be very easy, or it can't be achieved. So I think it's more everything, start with the awareness. If people know that it all this can be improved. And it has a positive effect on the businesses. For example, as you said, factory, the factory machinery is if there's air quality, which is better than the machine is will have less maintenance, less frequent break down kind of thing. So those will affect those will, those will help companies run their operations smoothly, at the same time, less sick leave for people who are working there. So I think these three things are important for for all the industry to understand and adopted.
Dusty Rhodes 12:43
Okay, John, so you say that air quality and less maintenance on equipment, more efficient operation of the building less sick leave with employees lots and lots of benefits? When you go in and you're working with a business, what are the typical concerns that they expressed to you?
Jayant Kaushal 13:04
My experience is that generally the the air filtration is not in the key consideration in most of the businesses. But companies who are a little bit aware of improving the indoor air quality and they have understanding of air filtration, they surely get deeper into the discussion, the discussion always start with price. And we take it to the level of indoor air quality related with the air filtration requirements and take it to the next level by doing all those things, how sustainable you or your company will be. And over a period of time, actually, you will end up saving some money beside improving the efficiency in the indoor facility. So that's how it started. But many, many. If people feel that indoor air quality is important, from a productivity to or from the health point of view, then they will prefer to have some side kind of product like air purifiers in store. This is a short term thing unless you actually know how big and how much or how many of them you need for your facility, then it will not do the job properly. So that's why people like us come in and try to educate the customer base and make them understand what is the best solution they can they can think of.
Dusty Rhodes 14:20
So that's a view from Singapore, Sam, in China. In your experience when you are working with other businesses, what are their typical concerns in China?
Chen Xin (Sam) 14:33
You'd only know well when it goes to the air quality that while we have get in touch with some customer or potential user that you don't need. They have some urgent requests for the air quality part. You know, like, you know the office they just do the declaration and that they have concerns about the smells comes out from the furniture from the painting. And that could be the top of world concerns. I can As the foremost users in China, and the while at the same time that is, especially in the colder season, that PM, PM 1pm 2.5. The high concentration will also make them ask that is there any way that we can remove these tasks to keep the indoor air quality? malkani? Cleaner? That's, I think it's a two main concern that we can see in in China.
Dusty Rhodes 15:28
A lot. Jay and mentioned WHO guidelines and you've mentioned pm one, either kind of standards and regulations that apply across the world, or are they different in Singapore and different in China?
Chen Xin (Sam) 15:43
Okay, right now, while we see the offshore regulation, like the one Janet mentioned about the who can deny, and also in the China NoCo national standard, they will still focus on the PM 2.5 and the PM 10. They will have the concentration image in a daily or any site, that kind of limiter value. And the 4pm one right now, we didn't see offshore officials standard handed on that in China. But the thing is that from the from the air, its air quality itself, that the smaller Panikkar will, you know, will have no problem with the to to your health to your health safety net to the pm one can go deeper into your body, but compared to the PM 2.5. That's why we emphasise the performance to remove pm one to customer. That's I think the start point is that we care about the final air quality data will which will hire to people mostly
Dusty Rhodes 16:52
okay. Yeah. Giant.
Jayant Kaushal 16:55
Yeah. So I think every country in Asia have their national standard. But the number varies. And I think that I we can understand how I can understand because every country has different level of outdoor air pollutant. And that is why the number varies. So for example, Thailand has the air quality guideline for PM 2.5, which is a national standard. They were mentioning, the limit, or average limit is 50 micrograms per cubic metre. But now recently, they've announced that by June next year, they will they lower it down to 37.5 microgram per cubic metre, which is also very high compared to who recommended standard. So every country has different levels, and they're trying to achieve or benchmark at a lower level over a period of time, it takes time to improve the air quality. And this is what they're mentioning about the outdoor air quality, which we are taking a reference of same as indoor air quality as well.
Dusty Rhodes 17:59
Sam, can I come to you then about all of these regulations and these numbers and it's pm this and it's 2.5 that that's one is who and for normal person who's just thinking I wants to improve the air quality in my workplace? Is it possible for them to simply understand what these regulations and standards are you able to help them to put all of this into into nice normal language instead of just numbers and regulations and three letter and acronyms?
Chen Xin (Sam) 18:31
You know, in China, we only where are we talking about the air quality that we don't to normal people that we will use different place to show the how good they are karate is like in China, they either are famous and the ethos is Hainan Island that I guess the annual the annual value or came to my face less than 20 microns. So it's it's quite good in China. So usually whilst we talk to them about the performance, we can see that you needed to have such kind of device installed and to improve your air quality right now it's likely being the you know, in the desert or in the in the north China in part two, we this device you can move to the south one island with very good air quality. Yeah.
Dusty Rhodes 19:19
And what tricks do you use up your sleeve down to explain these things simply to people?
Jayant Kaushal 19:26
I think because of the sometimes we have a higher levels of air pollutant and this makes people understand or try to learn what what is a measure. So countries like India, Singapore and China, they all been talking about pm 2.5 and pm 10 levels. And they have an index they measure on a regular basis and they publish a report on their environmental agencies website. So people know more 2.5 and 10 and they know what is high and what is low. So taking the same reference, we can say the look This is what you need to achieve. But it is only possible unless you ask questions or you measure. And I will recommend that people should ask questions to the superiors or to the building management, facility management kind of organisations to make sure that they are maintaining certain level of indoor air quality. I think common people common man is very difficult for them to go beside asking questions, they can go and fix anything, it is not their job, they want to maintain or have very good indoor air quality, which they feel is acceptable by norms, and they're happy with it.
Dusty Rhodes 20:34
Actually, that's great, because somebody who's listening to the podcast now, before they even think about becoming an ergonomics officer or finding out more, the first thing, they should just ask questions at work, and see with the building manager or with our motto, are we doing anything, and then they could help by actually taking it upon themselves just to find out a little bit more, and to increase awareness just within the business. Because then when people know, then they can do things about it. If somebody is listening, and they say, Okay, I'll ask some questions of work. And then they want to go and get more information, where would you say is a good place to start to get more information?
Jayant Kaushal 21:18
I can say that there are a number of websites who can provide this information, they can visit our chief economic officers website, or they can approach our staff wherever we have offices can feel they can write to us, and we can we can guide them. But but there are a number of ways they can get information if they're interested into.
Dusty Rhodes 21:40
And if somebody decides that they aren't, they're not accountable customer, they've just found us on the internet and think this is interesting. If they call you are they going to get a bill for advice? Or are you happy to get them started?
Jayant Kaushal 21:53
The Yeah, that's a good point. And I think you're absolutely right. We are creating awareness. And that has been another task for us, which we have taken ourselves as being economic officers, is to make them understand keep, make them aware of what is good, and what is the good level of indoor air quality we should maintain. And how do we do that? So there is no bill for that.
Dusty Rhodes 22:17
Okay, cool. Cool, cool. Thank you just start the ball rolling. And if they want to go any further, Sam, if somebody wants to start this, and they want to then go a step further and find out what is the air quality in their business? Like how do you start evaluating your indoor air quality?
Chen Xin (Sam) 22:38
Yeah, I would like to say that there could be two steps that to make people as you just discussed about the you know, to make people easier to understand the air quality, I think that the first step is that they build as a concept about the good and the better air quality. I think the way that he the way it could be done that could be done in China. Yeah, you while you open the Weather app, the ice air quality index on the on the interface of the app, you can even if there is a smoke smoke guy, or baby cry or a baby smile, that's to show the how good the air quality is that with the political sense, build, then it will be very important, the next step that we must have started to monitoring the air quality in the office. That could be the I will say that will be the officer is step one, that for us to start with the Air Quality Improvement Plan.
Dusty Rhodes 23:36
Here's a hard question to ask both of you. But and again, it's about money. is improving indoor air quality expensive?
Jayant Kaushal 23:47
Yeah, that's a good question. And it's not very easy to answer when you say expensive because as expensive is a relative term for somebody, even $1 expensive and some are some people even 1000 and not expensive. But But let me put it in a different context. We try to eat good food, to make sure that we remain healthy. We try to drink good water, when we make sure that nothing going to affect us. So by not air, if somebody has to put air into consideration said it has a long term effect, the number of studies which has been published, and I don't know whether they get light on the day for people to understand there is a there are a number of studies, one of them says that the air pollution can make you make your intelligence a question mark. I mean, for example, there's a huge reduction in intelligence, the air quality effect which we see I want to be intelligent, I want to be active. So it is affecting my health it is affecting myself. So what do we do that? I mean one study on a lighter note about Burness linked to particulate pollution level. is probably some time back. So I don't want to be born in a short period of time maybe at a higher age for sure. So I think there's a there's a, there's a cost, which we are not seeing, which is seeing which is affecting our health. And our health is most important thing, our health, our family's health and people's health, people's life. So I would put it this way that there is a way, if some company says that if I improve my filtration, which will cost money, then I can answer the question saying that we have our own proprietary tool that says lifecycle cost analysis, or we call it total cost of ownership. So what we do, we actually compare their filtration with the improved filtration of cancer solutions, and try to do a comparison essay, if you use this one, you still save money, at the same time, you're being more sustainable. And so you're saving money, you're being sustainable at the same time you improve indoor air quality, it's a win win situation. And that's what we want to recommend and propose and promote to our all our listeners and customers so that they could look into it. It is not that by improving the air quality or air filtration requirements, you end up increasing cost you end up saving a lot for a whole life.
Dusty Rhodes 26:18
This all sounds amazing. If I'm listening Ajay onto you, and I think, okay, I wants to become an ergonomics officer or I want to find out more. Is it a difficult process to become an ergonomics officer?
Jayant Kaushal 26:32
It takes a little bit of time, but I don't think is difficult is it to start with, I want to do it our wish. And if you want to do it is not very difficult. And can fill team globally is available to support you make you understand. And that's it and help you to understand. So I think it becomes much more easier because there is somebody who can train you free of cost,
Dusty Rhodes 26:53
I would say and Sam, if somebody in China wants to become an ergonomics officer, how did they do that? Actually, right
Chen Xin (Sam) 27:01
now that while we implement to the Eric blanc initiative, internally in can feel that we have some some, you know, kind of like the associate professional associations, they showed interest to to to this initial initiatives. And they would like to promote internally between the association members, that food for the people or for the organisation who are interested to be the aircraft need to be involved in their community initiatives, that the first step is that they can just, you know, they can just contact me or other people in Canada or China that we can give them some training about how to know about the air quality and some basic methods to improve the air quality. It kinda like not very complicated the training programme that we can offer them to make them to be, I think, another very important need to make them qualified aircon officers there who can really handle the air quality in their organisation.
Dusty Rhodes 28:12
Well, if you are listening to this and you'd like to find out more about it, the first thing you could do right now this second is to go online to the Special Counsel website chief ergonomics officer.com, where you can learn more, and you can join the initiative from there as well. There's also a LinkedIn group, which you're welcome to join also links to those along with contact information for down to and for Sam as well if you want to talk to either of them all in the description area of this podcast on your podcast player right now. But for now, John and Sam, thank you very much for your time. And thank you for joining us on the podcast
Chen Xin (Sam) 28:46
Tinker that they think. Thank you for
Jayant Kaushal 28:49
having me. Do
Dusty Rhodes 28:50
join us next time as we keep you up to date with the latest issue on our let's talk at plein air podcast to get it automatically just click the Follow button on your player right now. Until next time for myself Dusty Rhodes. Thank you for listening