Episode 43 - Choice, Intent, and Striving for Excellence in Love.

Show Notes

Welcome to your weekly dose of The Psychedelic Psychologist. This week we meet Hunter, who is an adventure, dreamer and creative force. He shares his wonderful story of learning to be authentic with himself and create his joy. 

In this session we dive into travel, trust, and loving oneself. He describes his inter-travels with psychedelics and what these experiences lead to in his "waking" life. It's a profound expression of listening to one's heart and living out his dreams.

Hunter references his active work he is doing to integrate as well as the trust in practical workbooks, meditations, and physical practices that provide support to him.

If you are looking for psychedelic integration support please go to:

The Psychedelics Integration Handbook
Healingsoulsllc.com

What is The Psychedelic Psychologist?

The Psychedelic Psychologist is a conversational-style podcast hosted by Dr. Ryan Westrum with clients and guests who use talk therapy to integrate Psychedelic experiences for healing and personal transformation. Tune in to hear people’s experiences, breakthroughs and stories of healing addiction, depression, and trauma through Psychedelics. Dr. Ryan Westrum gracefully and empathetically narrates real therapy sessions with people in their most vulnerable and transformational moments.

I would like to invite you to take a
moment in your day, throughout your

evening or wherever this finds you,
this present moment, recognizing

in this moment all the significant
changes, transformations, and movements.

That you may have with this breath in this
breath, breathing in and breathing out.

I invite you to acknowledge, be
aware, and find the acceptance of all

things that change, transform, and.

And in this breath, accepting, breathing
in and witnessing the breathing out

again.

Breathing in the nuance of
change, breathing out the

expression of transformation.

now inviting you back into your
body, into this present moment,

allowing yourself to be the
witness to this experience.

Breathing in and breathing out.

Finding yourself grounding
back into the here and the now.

With all the changes, transformations,
and movements on the horizon.

Hi, it's Ryan.

Welcome to your weekly dose of the
Psychedelic Psychologist, where

I invite my guests to share their
stories about their psychedelic

integration, their experience.

We talk about everything from addiction
to depression, anxiety, and everything

that involves a spiritual emergence.

Today I'm grateful and super privileged
to have my guest Hunter, who I've been

working with sometime and am profoundly
excited to speak to with their colorful

language and beautiful stories.

Hunter, it's great to see you.

Great to hear you.

How are you coming in today?

Hey, it's really great
to see and hear you too.

Thanks for having me on.

I I'm coming in you.

Feeling, you know, kind of the polarity
of both, feeling really amazing

and, and, and falling into love.

But also, you know, working on
taking care of my, my physical body

and, and making sure that I'm, I'm
staying on top of things like that.

But, overall, I'm, I'm feeling
good and I'm excited to be.

Hunter, you bring up a super valid
point with everything that I talk

about regarding psychedelics is
this love affair, this amazing

experience that we're living, and
sometimes it pulls us out of the body.

But you were beautifully expressing
the polarity of the both, right?

This emotional love, this
spirit, spiritual connection,

and then remembering, oh
yeah, we have this body too.

What?

What are you recognizing
when you say that out loud?

Well, it's, it's really been
something, oh, I'm recognizing that.

I'm, I'm proud of that fact, because
it's really been something that's been

really new for me and an exploration.

I'm going through this workbook right
now called,, How to meet yourself.

And that's one of the things she really
talks about is, being more in touch with

your body, checking in with your body.

she has all these daily affirmations,
so I've been, you know, a few

times a day and, checking in.

With myself and seeing what my body needs.

And sometimes I'll just, I'll take a
break and, and I'll relax and maybe

roll my back out on my yoga roller,
ice my back, maybe take a little nap.

Whatever it is that I feel like my
body needs, maybe go to the gym.

sometimes I, I feel this
strive to just go, go, go.

I think it's ingrained in our
culture and I'm really trying to

just learn to just be and let go.

, that's, , a really profound
way of looking at things.

This idea of not only diving into
all the literature and information

out in the world, but recognizing
when to put it down and slow down.

How do you personally play within
that binary of desiring to consume

information, but knowing how
much you can digest or, process.

Yeah, it's really tough and I'm still
learning every day and experimenting on

what that looks like and feels like in my
life , because I'm a very curious person.

I love reading all sorts of different
books, listening to podcasts, but you also

reach a point where, Or, you know, I feel
like I reach a point where, if you do

too much, too fast for too long , not only
does your physical not only, you know, do

I feel my physical body starting to, have
that toll taken on it, but also I think on

like a spiritual and emotional level too.

So it's, it, it's a learning process
and I think it kind of always will

be for me, but I think I'm a lot
better than I used to be . Sure.

And, you know, working with you
and participating and witnessing

you and walking alongside
you and your healing journey.

What I've known about you is, it.

You don't give up.

You look at things, you come at
'em in many different angles.

And specifically what I honor about
you is this idea that the stagnation of

sitting in the same thing can also be
debilitating, and that's when you turn to

a different approach, which I appreciate.

Can you tell me a little bit
about what you do to keep things,

fresh in your healing process?

Yeah, so I think, for me, it's kind of
about having an open mind and also like

this workbook that I just started, it
was like 20 or 25 bucks or something.

And like I'd done similar workbooks like
it in the past and I had, I was feeling

resistance to buying it cuz I, I was like,
I guess fearful that , maybe it would be

too similar to what I've done in the past.

Didn't deserve to spend 20 or $25 on
myself on a, on a workbook like this.

But then when I think about it's really
a small price to pay and I'm obviously,

Worthy of spending money on myself.

We all are.

And it, it's really a small price to
pay when, I think about, the, the money

that I've invested into, therapy, which,
the therapy has really been priceless.

But I think it really, for me, I feel like
in order to get the most out of therapy

and working with a professional like you,
It's important for me to do the work on my

own too, and that's been really profound.

The, book, the Artist Way, I've done
that twice, and a combination of working

through that and working with you led me
to this whole new amazing life in Hawaii.

Completely different than the life I
was living four or five, six years ago.

. Wow.

And I bow to that.

I mean, and let's take a moment
and we'll be a little, unlinear.

You're sitting now in this place, in
this earthly realm that so many people

find as you know, utopic heaven.

How did you get there?

Can you paint a picture of
the journey that it took?

Was it, was it a knee-jerk reaction
or, what I know about you is different,

and so I would love for you to.

what feels heartfelt to
you in that transition?

Yeah, absolutely.

Thank you for saying those nice things.

It's good to hear.

It was a really, really long
and at times difficult journey.

What's the emotion coming up right now?

I think it's, I think it's joy,
which is, something I've been

working on, trying to express.

It's okay to be joyful, but, you know, a
relationship that was no longer serving

me, it's a five year relationship.

I had, had invested a lot into
it and I ended the relationship

because I wasn't happy in it.

It was no longer serving me and I,
I felt like it would've been really

easy to blame the other person.

but at the end of the day, I wanted to
look in the mirror because otherwise I

felt like I would've ended up in the exact
same relationship with another person.

And so that led me to therapy.

But, kind of what you
talked about was it quick?

Did I rush in?

Anything like that?

Like, I waited, I think it was
seven or eight months, I had

been looking for a therapist.

and just nothing was feeling right.

And then I synchronistically met
you at a dream workshop and it just,

it totally felt right, it clicked.

And from there, You know, we were doing
the, the in-person meetings a couple

of times a week for several months.

And, it was, you know, extremely
difficult and challenging, but it was

also so beautiful and healing and it
was so nice to have somebody there to

listen and challenge my perspective
on things and, bounce ideas off of.

And, in the process of all this, I.

When I started doing therapy with you,
that's when I started the Artist's Way.

I started writing my first fiction novel,
and I also booked a, a trip to Hawaii.

I'd always wanted to go to Hawaii.

I just booked a 10 day trip.

Okay, I, I can do that.

And then as we started going down this
path together and I was doing all this

personal growth, I had this idea that I
really wanted to go on this aspirational.

To Japan, I'm really into like
airline miles and points, and there's

this first class flight nonstop
from Chicago to Tokyo on all n on

airways, and like, it, it's insane.

Like the cash price of the
ticket is like $20,000.

Like you have own personal
flight attendant, like all this

amazing food and everything.

I wanna do that.

But I, in doing that, I knew I'd
have to quit my job and it was

like, it was a pretty good c.

Job.

, there are a lot of good things about it,
a lot of not so good things about it.

So I made a deal with myself.

I said, okay, if I finish the
rough draft of my first novel, then

I can book the flight to Japan.

And from there it started snowballing,
into just this huge three month trip.

And I stopped, in Hawaii along the way
and just absolutely fell in love with it.

It's just like, I felt so healing,
, and I just like spoke to my soul.

And again, I have have to stop you.

What's coming up?

I'm witnessing a beautiful expression.

What are you recognizing in
accepting that invitation?

, I, I think it's, joy and trust
is, I think is, I think how I

would describe it, trusting myself.

Cause you know, it was a scary thing.

I didn't know anyone here.

I didn't have a place to live
a job, anything like that.

And, I took a chance and, and came here.

And fortunately I came here
right before Covid hit.

And, it.

It's been like amazing and crazy
and like the universe just keeps

providing everything that I need.

And I try to always remind myself of that.

Cause I've been so fortunate, like
in the last three years, I really

haven't had to hardly work at all,
which is kind of unheard of in Hawaii.

I mean, I, I did work a lot.

The first half.

Of 2022 and, I doing this amazing job as
a snorkel tour guide that I, that I loved.

And in the process of all
these three years, there was

lots of learning and growth.

And I've now written seven
books, which is really.

Kind of hard to believe and, I just,
well, let's take a moment for just a

second and acknowledge I need to slow
down because I recognize someone that

it just didn't listen to The Secret.

You profoundly are doing active
work simultaneously to the

universe opening up to you.

I know you as someone that's not afraid
to look at yourself, question the

decisions you make, take accountability
with the actions you're doing.

So, What you've done isn't as
if it just fell on your lab.

You've invested.

What does it mean to you to invest
in your healing practice and your

life as you're doing right now?

Thank you.

You're welcome.

It , it really means everything to
me and I'm like, it's nice to be

able to reflect on this with you and
like feel how proud I can be of that.

Because it has been a very long journey.

Funny enough, this journey for me
started in, in my early twenties.

I was really struggling with women
and I found myself in this bizarre

and kind of interesting world of,
Yeah, they're called pickup artists.

These guys go around and try to meet
women with all of these different

schemes and routines, and I was, I was
really into that for a couple years.

And, the beautiful thing about that
is that it got me reading again

and it got me reading all of these
self-help books and looking inward,

and it also got me into meditation.

And meditation has been so key
for me in silencing things.

For a majority of my life.

And this is something that you helped
me realize is I'm always constant.

I had always been constantly like thinking
my way through life, and I never felt

my way through life and checked in with
how I was feeling about certain things.

So I mean in this book that I was writing
last night, what I, you know, what I wrote

was, it's like, it's almost comical how.

Books I've read on self-help
and psychology and philosophy,

and it has been a long journey,
but it's been so worthwhile.

And when I got to that place, you know,
I feel like I can, I was able to start

manifesting the life that I wanted and
stop living a life that other people,

or I thought other people wanted for.

Well, and that's a huge point.

And the idea of you just saying living
a life, other people wanted for you.

And I think, , that takes a minute to
digest that you are acting, you are

acting with agency and authenticity
and not following someone else's story.

Yeah.

And it's , it's kind of funny, the
universe is funny because I feel like

it'll still test you on those things.

Like, did, did you
really learn this lesson?

How about this?

How are you gonna react to this?

, I was in this relationship, long distance
relationship with this woman that I met in

Minnesota right before I moved here, and,
It came a point in time where she wanted

me to move back to Minnesota and a small
part of me did, cuz I, I loved the woman.

She was really amazing, but I knew
that I wouldn't have been being.

I wouldn't have been living my truth.

And in the end, both her and I
wouldn't have been happy in a

relationship there because I, I think
I would've, maybe resented myself.

Maybe resented her, but I,
I knew I wouldn't have been

happy living back in Minnesota.

I can definitely respect that
because it takes the whole body

to listen to and not just as you
said earlier, the thoughts Hunter.

One of the things that you know
about me and that you've worked,

simultaneously with me beyond the
dreamwork and traditional therapy is an

integration of sorts with psychedelics.

This idea of the way you use them is
very intentional and not liberal at

all, quite intentional and drawn out.

You use a lot of space to
integrate between sessions.

What would you say the first
experience was and how did that unfold?

The precipice of Hawaii, your
travels and your authenticity.

Can you reflect on that experience?

My first experience was with Microdosing,
and that really helped me a lot.

As I was planning this big trip, and
it, it really helped with depression,

anxiety, addiction, and all those
things, and like, letting go easier.

And what I call it now today
is peaceful productivity.

Like my legs just kind of take
me places and like, you know,

go do things that I love.

And then, and I'll, I'll
state that I was really.

Cautious and skeptical about doing it
in the beginning, even though the book

Fear Unloading in Las Vegas is one of
my absolute all-time favorite books.

And I just like, I, I love it so much
and you know, that whole book centers

around drug use, but I, I was still
very scared about going into that realm.

There's a lot of fear.

But eventually, I was able to
find myself, doing, A larger

dose in a therapeutic session.

And that was probably the most spiritual
experience I've had in my lifetime.

There were a lot of beautiful
lessons learned in that.

I recovered a repressed memory,
which helped me in my journey and.

and working on some, close relationships.

And it also, I, I didn't know it at the
time, but one of the visions that I had

was there were these, was transported
to this place and there were these

beings and they like led me deep into
the mountain , through these tunnels

and there were these elders there and
they told me to just share my stories.

I'm like, that just meant so much to me.

I just knew so much.

On this new career of writing books.

And, it, it took me I think like
a, a year or two to, to realize it.

But, I think that place that I was at was.

A visualized version of Maui.

, and it just, it felt so right.

And I think that's part of the reason
why it feels so much like home.

And I was called here, And,
and since then, I've been doing

one of those about once a year.

I, I did one in another therapeutic
session., and kind of the overarching

theme of that one was Let go,
which I mentioned before, and

kind of the overarching theme of
the first one I did was just b

and those two things I feel like.

Are so freeing and they feel
like universal truths to me

and where I can find peace.

This is fantastic.

Go ahead.

Sorry.

Keep going.

Thank you.

And, more recently, well, I'll just
say that I've been really struggling

with depression the past few months.

I had a, a very difficult five months.

Looking back on it now, it's,
it feels so much lighter.

But I kind of had a series of events.

My truck got smashed up in a hit and run.

My father passed away.

When I came back to Hawaii, my
job was gone and I broke my toe.

I had a falling out with
one of my best friends.

And it was just like, it was
really, really difficult.

Can you stop right
there for just a moment?

Yeah.

Acknowledge, please acknowledge
what I hear you saying because

it's, it's deep, it's emotional.

And you, the last five minutes
you've been going through a ton.

What is it, as you're pausing, just
acknowledging your body, acknowledging

the feelings in your heart.

It's a alive, isn't it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's, it really is.

So I've been trying to, I guess,
listen more to the universe and, and

see the connections and the signs.

My friend really encouraged me
to start microdosing again, and

that's really, really helped a lot.

And then I'm, I'm at a point now
I think with my meditation and my

mind space where I feel comfortable
doing those therapeutic larger dose.

On my own and setting my intention
and, and knowing that I'm safe and

trusting myself in the universe.

And, over the last couple weeks
I've had a couple of really

amazing and profound experiences.

One of them was, well, I was actually
watching this new amazing movie

called, everything Everywhere, all At.

And it's kind of about parallel
universes and things like this.

And the same friend that encouraged
me to micro dust and hit bugged me

about this movie like three times.

She like, you gotta watch this movie.

So I finally watched it about halfway
through, I'm like, I, I'm really

feeling like I want do an experience.

So I put it on pause.

I did my ritual, I meditated,
I did a gratitude meditation.

And then while I was waiting, To start,
I was planning on watching the rest of

the movie, but while I was waiting for
it to start, I wa I was listening to

this audiobook by Wayne Dyer, who's like
my hero, my guru, my guardian angel.

He lived here , where I
live, which is amazing.

And Deepak Chopra.

He's an MD and he's really into Aveda.

I had already listened to about an
hour of the audiobook before this

evening, and the part that I turned
on, Wayne, is introducing Deepak.

And they start talking about
quantum mechanics and reality

and all of this different stuff.

And like a lot of it was related to
the movie that I was watching, and

I just felt like they were talking
directly to me and it was just like, so.

Incredibly amazing and I, I just,
I felt so much love and it kind of.

Change my perspective on things,
especially in regards to where

Deepak was talking about chaos.

And I could just like see everything that
happened over the last five months and

you know, all the while they're reminding
me that the universe is on purpose.

And I have all these connections here
and all these people here to help

me and that everything's okay and.

This is, a playful and
recreational universe, and to

not take myself so seriously.

I love that hunter.

The fact that it's a playful universe and
the emotion isn't magnificent, that you're

expressing, thank you, pretty fantastic.

And life isn't that
serious, but yet so serious.

It's weird to play within that paradox.

Like rom DA says, life is a paradox.

Everything is a paradox.

So yeah, it's, interesting living
in that space because there are.

always going to be challenges.

And it's kind of one thing
that Deepak touched on too, is

how you define those things.

Wayne says, when you
define me, you negate me.

I think younger Hunter would've
easily fallen into a, a place of

fear and anger, especially after
everything that had transpired the

past five months is, you know, it
could have been just another thing.

But what happened was, I was in this
fantasy football league, I won it.

I won $150.

And this guy, the commissioner
who's supposed to pay everyone out,

He starts giving me the runaround.

I'll send it in a couple more days.

I'll send it in a couple more days.

And I finally realized he
was never gonna send it.

And I think in the past I really
would've, kind of been out for,

for vengeance and making it
perhaps a bigger deal than it was.

I mean, yeah, it sucks losing
out on $150, but I also know.

The universe, I have everything I need.

The universe will provide
everything that I need for me.

And if I let go of that, and I put
the time and energy that I could have

put into emailing this guy's job,
reporting him to PayPal and Venmo,

so his account gets shut down, I can
take that time and energy and invest.

Into things here in my life,
like writing books, like going

on podcasts and talking to you.

I know that money, that abundance will
come back to me in a different way.

That's really quite beautiful.

and it's also work, right?

As as anything.

Yeah.

There's this nuance of, it's easy to
say, it's another thing to actively

do, which leads me, how are you
integrating that beautiful experience?

What are you doing to recognize
the practicality within your day?

Yeah.

So for me, going back to the artist's
way, one thing that's been super, super

beneficial to me is morning pages.

I journal three pages
freehand every morning.

I've been doing it for, I can't believe
it, I think like four years now.

I have stacks of notebooks
and I call it the.

Best free therapy out there is just
so incredible to be able to have this

space that's all my own, and I can
put down unedited unfinished ideas.

I can reflect on different strategies.

I can look at how I feel about something
and kind of what the pros and cons are,

and I think make more informed decisions
and also not act from a place of.

Difficult emotions.

I used to, I think, really act
in in places of sadness and anger

in the past, and they would lead
me to rash decisions and it would

lead to some unfortunate events.

That's fucking phenomenal.

This idea of leading out of
irrational emotions, I mean, what

a fantastic expression of self.

Yeah.

Thanks.

It's not it.

Been a, a really long learning
journey in, in terms of that.

But it, it's so worth it if for me to
be able to get to that place where I can

start to see how that works and feels
and has a positive impact on my life.

Yeah.

And as I can.

Testify to and appreciate within you
is it's not a passive experience.

As you said earlier, this is none of
this, is this passive, oh, I'll sit

back and watch everything unfold.

Rather.

It's very, I would say symbiotic, right?

That you, your work within
the universe, no matter how

chaotic or how organized it is.

You still are putting energy
towards love, towards compassion,

towards, hope of your dreams and
focus of what you find happiness in?

Yeah, definitely.

The, you know, I've been trying to
see more of the, the synchronicity

out there and the people that I come
across and, and the work that I do.

and when I can see and feel those things,
it, it makes me really happy to be

here, not just in Hawaii, but on Earth.

And to be able to be here and,
and play, it feels really good.

I, I confided in you a couple months ago
that I had this gut feeling that maybe I.

, maybe I completed whatever I,
I needed to on this earth and I

might not be here much longer.

I had a, a similar vision about
my father last February and , He

passed away, six months later.

And, and, and you know, maybe, maybe
I have done what I've come here to do.

Maybe I haven't.

But if I have, I feel like that doesn't
mean that I can't stay and play.

I've created this
beautiful life for myself.

Like I feel . I literally,

I literally feel like I
escaped from hell . Hmm.

So it feels really good to, to be
here and, and play and you know,

I think I do, want to enjoy being
here and enjoy relationships and

everything that this place has to
offer, for as long as it's meant to be.

And, and I think Clay's beautiful.

Much love to that hunter that takes
my breath away and I'm humbly bow.

Which leads me to ask, and in a way you've
answered it, but as you always know, my

deep desire for people to walk gently.

Hunter, what are you doing
today, this week in the present

to be gentle with yourself.

Yeah.

You'd always tell me that at the end
of our sessions to to be gentle and it

took me a long time to kind of really

Yeah, you're like,

It took me a long time to actually hear
what you were saying, but it's so true.

, for me personally, my inner critic,
used to be so loud and now I try to.

Remind myself and bring awareness
to the fact that I don't have to

always try to live in perfection.

Like you said to me, strive
for excellence, not perfection.

So, today, in this week,
I'm gonna go to the beach.

I'm gonna keep working on
editing this, this next novel,

which I'm, I'm so excited for.

And it brings me so much joy
and it also brings me joy that.

What I'm creating is also adding
abundance to other people's lives.

Not just in the form of creating
jobs for other people, but also

bringing joy to people's lives
through hopefully entertainment.

And, one of the, the messages I
got this past week, Was it, it kind

of feels weird to say cuz in some
ways it feels narcissistic, but

it's coming from a place of love.

When we talk about self-love, right?

Is I think narcissism, I'm sorry
to interject, but to protect

you and support you Yeah.

Is often we immediately knee
jerk reaction thinking we're

being arrogant or narcissistic.

Mm-hmm.

or self-defeating based off of
where we've come from or what

people have told us and what I'm.

A strong component of an advocate
for recently is this idea that

there's abundant love and we
deserve to shower it on ourselves.

And a recognition of sorts,
of honoring of sorts.

No.

So with that, I ask you to indulge.

Yeah, that's a beautiful way to put it.

So the message that I got was
that I'm an inspiration to others

Yeah, breathe into that.

And,

I try to remind myself of that
and, and no matter how many books

I sell or don't sell, just the
act of being me and creating and

living a life that I wanna live.

His inspiration to others.

Like Wayne Dyer says, in the gratitude
meditation that I listen to, he

says, be like the son and selfless
service shining upon the world.

regardless.

Of, of the outcome.

Right.

And what you give back.

Yeah.

And my own variation of that is like be
like the sun knowing that the sun provides

us without any expectation to receive.

Right?

Yes, exactly.

Hunter, much love.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Much love indeed.